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I have a question: There seems to be an anti-Catholic/Orthodox bias to this board. Why? Catholics ARE Christians. The first 1000 years of Christianity were all Orthodox and Catholic, in unity and harmony. Martin Luther was a Johnny Come Lately when he wrote his 95 theses in 1517

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 9/10/13
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Grandma said, " Monk: Mercy? What about justice, consequences, child protection, and repentance?"

How about getting the plank out of your own eye before examining the splinter in your brother's.

But of course, Protestants have no sin and once saved, they are always saved, so they can judge all they want to.
---Monk_Brendan on 9/24/13


I started this blog to find out why so many Protestants think that Catholics are not Christian. It quickly fell to finger pointing and name calling. Why is it that no one can even think about Grace outside of Calvinist Theology?

Pay attention people! I got saved (i.e. gave my life to Jesus back in 1977, and I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit the same night--both in a Catholic Church. I have continued my walk with Christ to the point that I gave up everything and became a monk to live closer to the Lord.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever--including Catholics, Roman, Eastern, or otherwise might not perish but may have eternal life.
---Monk_Brendan on 9/24/13


Grandma:

I don't see Monk_Brendan saying that pedophile priests should be excused - he specifically said they should be published. All he did was ask for mercy (didn't Jesus preach forgiveness, even for the most heinous of crimes?)

However, the issue isn't that Catholic priests are getting away with it - but rather that it's little different among Baptists or other groups, where the same kinds of things occur - yet it's the Catholics who seem to get all the blame.

If one wants to pillory the Catholics for harboring pedophile priests, it's only fair to equally pillory Protestants for harboring pedophile ministers, isn't it?
---StrongAxe on 9/24/13


Cluny, you must be imaging things. you say,
"I've spoken out against your wrong doctrines all the time, Mark_V, but you seem to resent it."
What doctrines from Scripture have you argued that I resented? Please, give me a break this morning. The only arguments you have made concerns traditions that the RCC church made that are not Biblical, and the terrible history of the Catholic Church by murderers, pedophiles, the persecution of the Jews all through history, the removal of the Second Commandmentt and the blood they left behind. I don't resent anything you say, much of it I don't believe. But when it comes to doctrines of Scripture concerning the Trinity, I mostly agree with you
---Mark_V. on 9/24/13


Monk: Mercy? What about justice, consequences, child protection, and repentance?
---Grandma on 9/23/13




\\As genuine believers we should speak against any church who teaches wrong doctrines. We stand for Christ not for any denomination.
---Mark_V. on 9/23/13\\

I've spoken out against your wrong doctrines all the time, Mark_V, but you seem to resent it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/23/13


Mark V said: "Monk, there you go excusing the actions of so many pedophiles and I am talking about hundreds of them. You indicate, "everyone does it, so what is wrong with them doing it." Instead of saying it was so wrong."

I have never excused the sins of pedophiles, be they priest, evangelical minister, Buddhist monk, or layman. Any of those that have committed this sin should be punished. But, is there no room for mercy? Can you see the man's heart? Can you know if he has repented?

Besides, have you no sin in your own life? Is there nothing that could cause you to squirm in agony if it was announced in your church?
---Monk_Brendan on 9/23/13


Monk, you asked why? Catholics are Christians. What you feel is an attack on you when people speak against the leaders and the bad doctrines they put out. It's not the members fault. They don't elect the popes, Bishops, or fathers. Everything is out of their control. Nothing you say, will change how they work or what they teach. All you do is believe what they say and pledge allegiance to the RCC. That is why you feel attacked. But it is not a personal attack on the members. I was a member once. It was not my fault what the Hierarchy did. I defended them because I did not know Scripture.
As genuine believers we should speak against any church who teaches wrong doctrines. We stand for Christ not for any denomination.
---Mark_V. on 9/23/13


Monk, there you go excusing the actions of so many pedophiles and I am talking about hundreds of them. You indicate, "everyone does it, so what is wrong with them doing it." Instead of saying it was so wrong.
Judy, I too was a Catholic. I have no problem with any member. My words are against the Church itself and its leaders. Many great man came out of the RCC. Not because they wanted but because they wanted to reform the Church from it's evil actions. Many were beheaded for the Truth. I heard rumors about molestations, but no one said anything because we thought as Catholics that to speak again the RCC was to speak against God. That is the reasom many parents never believed the children who were molested.
---Mark_V. on 9/23/13


Mark V said,"Molesters have been moved from place to place. No one taking accountability. All the way up to the pope."

And the dallying of Music Ministers in evangelical protestant churches are legend. I went to an A of G church, and everybody knew that he was playing with little boys, and nobody did anything, and eventually he was transferred, and families were paid hush money. It happens everywhere
---Monk_Brendan on 9/22/13




I was raised RCC all my life. I went to Catholic grammar school and high school. I believe I was totally saved at the age of 12. That summer I decided to read the whole Bible. I noticed some things like tongues and stuff that I had never heard of. I knew there had to be more out there that RCC wasn't teaching me. RCC is Christian, but during the dark ages did pick up some corrupt doctrines. Do not judge every Catholic Christian by the pages of history. God sees the heart. :)
---judy on 9/22/13


Grandma, I totally agree with you. When Cluny says, baptist and others do the same thing, is like excusing what the RCC has done all through history "everyone does it". Molesters have been moved from place to place. No one taking accountability. All the way up to the pope. They have known of this things for a long time, and nothing was ever done until resently, they have paid out millions of dollars, and more an more are coming out giving their testimonies and how they were abused and molested. No one believe them before because how could holy fathers do such a thing? But we know now that in every country molesters were moved around.
---Mark_V. on 9/22/13


Cluny: My issue with the RCC is that the leaders of the dioceses did not see that the pedophile priests were arrested. Instead they just transferred them to another parish to do it some more.
---Grandma on 9/21/13


same reason cluny that it was such a big deal when the pope was elected. of course it wasn't a big deal to me. I just think it is mediahype to promote catholics.
---shira4368 on 9/21/13


\\ I've seen Baptist preachers fall but there are 1000 that does not\\

Same way with Roman Catholic (and for that matter, Orthodox) priests.

But the Catholic priests who fall are the ones that get the media attention.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/21/13


Cluny, for your information Jesus never said His church would be mixed with wheat and tares. Christ called it My Church. Emphasizing that He alone is its Architect, Builder, Owner and Lord. The Greek for church means "called out ones" While God had since the beginning of redemptive history been gathering the redeemed by grace, the unique Church He promised to build began at Pentecost with the coming of the Holy Spirit, by whom the Lord baptized believers into His body which is the Church (Acts 2:1-4: 1 Cor. 12:12,13). That is why the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/13


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Ruben: Better standing on moral issues? Really? I can think of a few things in RCC history that disagree. Most recently pedophile priests.
---Grandma on 9/21/13


cluny, your problem is you pick on certain beliefs especially Baptist. I've seen Baptist preachers fall but there are 1000 that does not. everyone is subject to falling just like you have. there has been a ton of priest who are perverts but I also think many are faithful catholics. many people fall from all denominations. the bible tells us to reach a hand to anyone that is down.
---shira4368 on 9/21/13


MarkV, I tried relating out some horror stories about Baptist ministers and seminaries, but I guess the moderator found them too graphic.

NOBODY comes such a discussion with clean hands.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/13


Cluny, for your information, I have material from the RCC that would make your head spin in circles. I know enough about the RCC, what they teach, how they persecuted the Jews all through history, the blood they left behind with the beheading of many, the dark ages, the corrupt popes. Popes with mistresses who had their children.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/13

Please tell me where Jesus said that his Church which he said is the Rock will be perfect. The Catholic Church has been the only one for 2000 yrs that has stand firm in Moral issues, that to me is the church where Jesus said " The gates of Hell will not prevail against it" MT 16,19
---Ruben on 9/20/13


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Yes Catholics are Christians. But the RCC does not teach correct doctrine. Just as I do not believe that Orthodox churches do not teach correct doctrine. I know less about the Orthodox and their history.

I believe that a person's relationship with JESUS is not based on correct doctrine. GOD looks at a person's heart. Which is why I do not judge anyone. I just say when I disagree with their teachings.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/19/13


Cluny, for your information, I have material from the RCC that would make your head spin in circles. I know enough about the RCC, what they teach, how they persecuted the Jews all through history, the blood they left behind with the beheading of many, the dark ages, the corrupt popes. Popes with mistresses who had their children. The child molesters who raped children for hundreds of years an just now are been caught. So I do have enough information. I also have tapes where the molesters were telling their stories how they were moved from one place to another just to hide them.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/13


"Monk, you are totally wrong. The first head of the Church in Rome was Constantine."

No, the first head of the Church was/and still is Jesus. Constantine was 300 years after Jesus, and he was the emperor of Rome, but he lived in Constantinople (Istanbul). He was not, nor did he ever claim to be the head of the Church. The Patriarch of Constantinople was the bishop there. The only denomination that I know that has a king/queen as head of the church as well is CofE
---Monk_Brendan on 9/20/13


\\I really do not like to discuss the history of the RCC. It make me sick so many times.
---Mark_V. on 9/19/13\\

I'm glad you don't like to discuss things you clearly know nothing about.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/13


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Cluny, sorry, there for a minute I considered I thought I was speaking to Ruben. I am glad you consider Christ as the Head of the Church. With that I am gone, I really do not like to discuss the history of the RCC. It make me sick so many times.
---Mark_V. on 9/19/13


\\He was the head of the Church. of course you want to say that Peter was the head of the Church. but poor Peter was dead already when they crowned him Pope.\\

Where do you get the notion that I think that either Constantine OR St. Peter was the head of the Church?

Christ is the head of the Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/13


Cluny, I see the difference, one that rules the Church. In the case of Constantine, he ruled the Church. He convened the council of Nicea. He was the head of the Church. of course you want to say that Peter was the head of the Church. but poor Peter was dead already when they crowned him Pope.
---Mark_V. on 9/18/13


\\Cluny, of course any material from history that tells us that Constantine was the first Head of the Church you would object to\\

There's a difference between being emperor and head of the church, though you probably don't see the difference.

TRAIL OF BLOOD is to Church History what DRACULA is to hematology.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/17/13


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Cluny, of course any material from history that tells us that Constantine was the first Head of the Church you would object to. The fact is that Eusebius was one of many who called Constantine the first Christian Emperor. Not only him but many others. "The trail of Blood" book is only one of many books that speak about the early church. And I don't expect you to believe any of it. You are too brainwash in your teachings that come from your own denomination. They would never admit to anything anyway. The Catholics only admitted one thing, how terrible they persecuted the Jews. Spoke by John Paul to the Jews. But the Truth is out there, just like Mulder use to say in the Ex-files.
---Mark_V. on 9/17/13


\\But history is open for everyone to learn.\\

Too bad you've not learned anything about it.

\\ The hierarchy was created by Constantine. \\

And where did you learn this false tidbit?

\\. Many baptist and other churches refuse to be married to the state. They wanted to remain independed as all churches were called to be with Jesus Christ as Head of the Churches.\\

Oh, you've read that fictional work TRAIL OF BLOOD.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/13


Cluny, pay close attention to what you have written:

You started out - "Most Orthodox priests and deacons are married." So far, so good.

But in the next sentence, you immediately change your tune - "Many Orthodox bishops are widowers.", not so bad for now,

but immediately it is followed by - "It's only for practical reasons that bishops must be free of marriage."

Then admitted, "Perhaps this will change in the future." Change what? Your smoke screens?

Are these even the instructions of the apostle Paul when he wrote his epistles about bishops and deacons? And you say I say silly things? You beat me hands down!
---christan on 9/16/13


Cluny, you might know a lot concerning the history of the orthodox church but only because what you know comes form their material and their websites. But history is open for everyone to learn. The hierarchy was created by Constantine. The hierarchy was the definite beginning of a development which finally resulted into what is now known as the Catholic, or Universal church. which really happened near the close of the second and beginning of the third century. Many baptist and other churches refuse to be married to the state. They wanted to remain independed as all churches were called to be with Jesus Christ as Head of the Churches.
---Mark_V. on 9/16/13


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\\I'm sure your Orthodox is no deferent.
---christan on 9/15/13\\

Wrong again as in everything else you say, christan.

Most Orthodox priests and deacons are married.

Many Orthodox bishops are widowers. It's only for practical reasons that bishops must be free of marriage. Perhaps this will change in the future.

But then, you admitted you can't help saying silly things, as you are predestined to say them, as you wrote earlier.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/13


Cluny, you do have a problem understanding Scriptures, don't you. On appointing bishops and deacons, you will notice Paul never made any mentioned that this is of a hierarchical position to have authority over the people of the body of Christ, only merely telling us "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity, (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)"

See the words "take care"? And btw, do you notice that the bishops (or at least the Vatican's) are celibate which is in contrary to Paul's message? I'm sure your Orthodox is no deferent.
---christan on 9/15/13


\\He quotes and declares, "2. The Church was ALWAYS hierarchical, with bishops, presbyters, and deacons." - isn't this the tradition of man?\\

Nope. Guess again!

\\And where in the Holy Bible do we find such a teaching that the church is to be hierarchical? No where!\\

St. Paul said he appointed Titus to "ordain elders in every city". Ordaining elders is a function of a bishop.

Bishops, presbyters (elders) and deacons are mentioned throughout the Epistles. This is hierarchy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/13


Brother MarkV, do note that this Cluny replies his answers with the traditions of man quoting from everywhere but the Holy Bible, which are the understandings that's directly from that of the man rather than the Word.

He quotes and declares, "2. The Church was ALWAYS hierarchical, with bishops, presbyters, and deacons." - isn't this the tradition of man?

And where in the Holy Bible do we find such a teaching that the church is to be hierarchical? No where! Why would such a thing even exist when we already have Christ as the head and the king of His people?

Get ready for him to quote Philippians 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:1,2 and Titus 1:7 to justify his cause.
---christan on 9/15/13


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Cluny, you say,
"1. The Council of Nicea was in 325, not 313." I was not speaking of the council of Nicea, Constantine was already Emperor and head of the Universal Church. He convened the council of Nicea. He became head of the Church when the persecution of the Christians had ended in 313 with the Edict of Milan, in Feb. of AD 313. Then say,
"2. The Church was ALWAYS hierarchical, with bishops, presbyters, and deacons." Wrong, Jesus Christ has always been Head of the Church. Bishops were asigned to keep order in the churches "plural." for no church was to govern another. When the Universal church came together, Jesus was dethroned, with a pope and new traditions not including Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/13


\\ The hierarchy was the definite beginning that came by the consummating holy union that a council was called in AD 313, a call was made for a marriage of the Christian churches and representatives. \\

WRong on two counts.

1. The Council of Nicea was in 325, not 313. Do you even know what it was about? (Probably not.) Local councils had been held before that during the first three centuries. Nicea was the first Ecumenical Council, because 318 representatives came from all over the OIKOUMENE or empire.

2. The Church was ALWAYS hierarchical, with bishops, presbyters, and deacons.

Doesn't it bother you to expound upon things you clearly know nothing about?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/13


Cluny, do you even know what the definition of a "monk" is? Dictionary defines a "monk" as "a man who has withdrawn from the world for religious reasons".

Did Jesus instruct any of His disciples to do such a thing? To withdraw from the world? Far be from it! His direction was explicit and clear, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations...". Now tell us, how does your "monk" do that when they are "withdrawn from the world"? How?

And you have the audacity to call me ignorant of the Holy Bible? Ya right. Try again, monk.
---christan on 9/14/13


\\Step into a RC temple of worship and you will have a full graphic definition of Babylonian worship.\\

How many Babylonian temples, past and present, have you visited and excavated to make a valid comparison with a Roman Catholic church?

Just give me a ball-park estimate, christan.

If it has been any at all, I really doubt that you would know the significance of what you were seeing, especially the inscriptions therein, if you think a word from Greek (monk) is from Babylonian aramaic.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/13


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\\O, so now it's a "label" you wear so others can find you?\\

Wrong. It's always been a label.

\\Why, even the name "monk" is a sort of Babylonian. \\

Wrong again. It's from the Greek "monachos".

\\Were any of Christ's disciples known as "monks"?\\

If you read Hebrews 11, you'll read about the Jewish antecedents of monasticism--those who lived in caverns and clefts of the earth, in rough clothing, as Christ described St. John the Baptist.

You really are ignorant of Scripture, aren't you, christan?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/13


Monk, you are totally wrong. The first head of the Church in Rome was Constantine. Though his reign was short, he was the first head of the Universal Church and Jesus Christ was dethroned as Head of the churches and Emperor Constantine enthroned only temporarily however as head of the church. The hierarchy was the definite beginning that came by the consummating holy union that a council was called in AD 313, a call was made for a marriage of the Christian churches and representatives. An alliance was consummated. A Hierarchy was formed. Third, there is no proof Peter was ever in Rome. No proof he was ever a pope. An nowhere did Jesus say that one person would rule the Church. He is the Head of the Church.
---Mark_V. on 9/14/13


"Orthodox is NOT the name of our church. It's simply a label we wear so others can find us." Cluny

O, so now it's a "label" you wear so others can find you? Let's see, did Jesus asked His disciples to wear "labels" on themselves so that others can find them? I haven't come across that in the Bible, and again you define the "traditions of man".

"Pray tell, what is Babylonian? I would like to know." Monk Brendan

Step into a RC temple of worship and you will have a full graphic definition of Babylonian worship. Why, even the name "monk" is a sort of Babylonian. Were any of Christ's disciples known as "monks"? I know Buddhism has monks.
---christan on 9/13/13


Gordon said, "For Babylonian, paganistic liturgies, beliefs and rituals have crept in the Church over time."

Pray tell, what is Babylonian? I would like to know. I don't think you are going to see anyone being thrown into a furnace, or being compelled to bow down and worship (latreia--the worship due to God alone as opposed to veneration [douleia--giving honor to whom honor is due.]) a golden statue, or anything that the Babylonians were doing. One this they did do was playing an orchestra whenever they wanted someone to worship. Oops, most evangelical churches have orchestras too.
---Monk_Brendan on 9/13/13


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\\Orthodoxy? Is that even mentioned in the Bible? Gee, where?\\

Orthodox is NOT the name of our church. It's simply a label we wear so others can find us.

Our name to ourselves is Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of the First-Born, and all the other names you find in the NT, which we wrote to start with.

**For Babylonian, paganistic liturgies, beliefs and rituals have crept in the Church over time.**

Gordon, tell me everything you know about pagan liturgies and specifically which elements crept into the Church and when.

What do you think the first Christians did? Sit around in their jeans and talk about what a great guy Jesus was?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


Gordon said: "Nonetheless, I repeat that the early Church was "Universal", but was not "Roman Catholic" it exists today, ."

Excuse me, but the core beliefs of the universal Church were there from the beginning--see Cluny's post about the 3fold ministry. The Roman part of Roman Catholic didn't exist until such time as Peter came to Rome to preach to the Jewish community there. He was the Bishop of Rome (the word Pope came in later, as that is a form of the word Papa.)

But there are more forms of Catholic than Roman--such as Melkite, Ukrainian, Chaldean--there is one that you can call Babylonian, as the Chaldean Church began when Thaddeus preached the Gospel in what is now called Iraq.
---Monk_Brendan on 9/13/13


//It's too bad for Luther and his followers that they didn't return to Christ's original Orthodox Church.//

But that is why we have grace. If we only knew how screwed up we really are.
---Scott1 on 9/13/13


"It's too bad for Luther and his followers that they didn't return to Christ's original Orthodox Church. Too bad you don't, either." Cluny

Praise the Almighty and merciful God that He spared us from man's tradition and that we are now called Christians.

Orthodoxy? Is that even mentioned in the Bible? Gee, where? And there you have it, man's tradition to Christian, which is God's tradition.
---christan on 9/13/13


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Monk Brendan, You initially said that the early Church was "Catholic".
But, you did not clarify that you meant "Universal". You didn't clarify it until I commented afterwards.

When someone says "Catholic" today, most people will think of the prevalent ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH as we know it today. They don't usually think of "Catholic = Universal", as you say you meant it. Okay, their loss.

Nonetheless, I repeat what I said last time, that, we can say the early Church was "Universal", but she was not "Roman Catholic" as the RCC exists today, and has for sometime now. For Babylonian, paganistic liturgies, beliefs and rituals have crept in the Church over time.
---Gordon on 9/13/13


shira, don't you just hate it when I show you from the Scriptures how Baptists are wrong?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


\\cluny, you don't have a clue about Baptist. you don't know anything. where did you get your information from? \\

I was one for 18 years. Went every Sunday until God saved me and brought me to Orthodoxy.

For a short time afterwards, I was organist in a large Baptist Church. The pastor was an adulterer and the minister of music had a taste for teen-aged boys.

I never returned to Baptist Babylon again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


\\Too bad for you he left the RC circle because dogmas in the RC are never ever up for debate at all\\

Not at all. I'm Orthodox.

It's too bad for Luther and his followers that they didn't return to Christ's original Orthodox Church.

Too bad you don't, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


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"And it was not Luther's intention to split from the Roman Church at that point, but merely to invite debate." Cluny

Too bad for you he left the RC circle because dogmas in the RC are never ever up for debate at all. And neither does Scripture tell the Christian to debate with the enemies.

The very fact that Luther challenged the RC faith is because he realised that their practices were unbiblical. And more importantly, history has it that he never returned to the RC practice. And that's because it wasn't God's will for His child to return to the world.
---christan on 9/12/13


From the Orthodox standpoint, Luther was indeed a johnny-come-lately. It's common knowledge that he was an Augustinian monk, so your telling the world that Queen Anne is dead.

Have you ever actually read the 95 Theses, christan? One of them says, "Apostolic pardons [indulgences] are NOT to be lightly despised." And it was not Luther's intention to split from the Roman Church at that point, but merely to invite debate. Posting notices on a cathedral or other major church door was as challenging and controversial in those days as posting similar notices on a grocery store bulletin board or telephone pole today.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/13


cluny, you don't have a clue about Baptist. you don't know anything. where did you get your information from? Baptist believe in all the bible. yes we have revivals, altar, sings, preaching, we worship in the Spirit. you need to south and experience what a "on fire" church is really like. when you make comments like you did on my post, you are showing your ignorance and that my friend you have plenty of that.
---shira4368 on 9/12/13


"Catholics ARE Christians. The first 1000 years of Christianity were all Orthodox and Catholic" -- And where does it say so in the Holy Bible of such a declaration that's made by you?


"Martin Luther was a Johnny Come Lately when he wrote his 95 theses in 1517" -- You do realise that Martin Luther was initially a RC monk, do you? The 95 theses was a protest note to the RC that their practices were un-biblical. And hence, he left the RC faith. So much for "Catholics are Christians".
---christan on 9/12/13


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\\bryan, you are teasing when you say Baptist don't believe in the bible. we believe in every single word in the bible. \\

No, you don't.

The Bible says the Church has bishops, presbyters (priests), and deacons. Baptists don't.

The Bible says in Malachi that the Gentiles will use incense. Baptists don't.

The Bible says that the bread and wine of Communion are really the Body and Blood of Christ. Baptists reject this.

Baptists have revivals, altar calls, and invitation hymns, none of which are in the Bible.

Baptists even reject several books of the OT.

And so it goes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/13


Gordon said, "But, the early Church was not "ROMAN CATHOLIC", with Popes, Monks, Nuns, and (false) doctrines

It is true that the Church was not Roman. However, you still don't understand. For the first 1000 years, the Church was universal. The only Christians were all Catholic--Not Roman, because there are different flavors (if you will)of Catholicism. And the beliefs that you deny--the biggest one being that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus, were universally believed.

Monasticism began in Egypt,by the way, because the monks felt the Church was letting in anybody, instead of hard core believers
---Monk_Brendan on 9/12/13


Gordon said, "But, the early Church was not "ROMAN CATHOLIC", with Popes, Monks, Nuns, and (false) doctrines such as, again, "Mary as perpetual virgin", "Peter the 'Rock onto which the Church was built'", and "Purgatory", etc."

It is pointless to discuss Marian doctrine until you first agree that her Son was God incarnate. As far as Peter being the Rock on which the Church was founded, go back and read the Gospels Matt 16:18 "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." That was Jesus talking, by the way.
---Monk_Brendan on 9/12/13


Monk Brendan, No, I did not miss the point. And, I say that humbly, not to save face for myself.

The early Church can be called "Catholic" as long as that term is meant to mean "Universal".....

But, the early Church was not "ROMAN CATHOLIC", with Popes, Monks, Nuns, and (false) doctrines such as, again, "Mary as perpetual virgin", "Peter the 'Rock onto which the Church was built'", and "Purgatory", etc.
And then with the common liturgy and observances of "Eucharist becoming the literal Body of Yahushua (JESUS CHRIST)", the praying on behalf of people who have passed on in Death, and the Rosary, etc.

NONE of that was of the early Chuch in Jerusalem.
---Gordon on 9/12/13


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Acts 2 v 38 to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost, the Early Church.
The trinity apostates, the author 2nd. Cor. 11 v 14 + Rev.17 v's 4 - 6 beginning with the first r - cath pope the Abominations of the earth, came about 325 yr's aft the day of Pentecost.
---Lawrence on 9/12/13


im a catholic.how ever im wise to see that our teaching is false from praying to saints and a host of other things,if u wish to practice ure catholic religion dats ure choice i wish u well but i believe the deeds of the church in the last 40 years show it for wat it is!
---jamea3475 on 9/12/13


\\Cluny how long have you been a Monk?
---Jimbo on 9/11/13\\

Jimbo, I'm not Monk Brendan.

Why are you asking this question?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/13


bryan, you are teasing when you say Baptist don't believe in the bible. we believe in every single word in the bible. ok, Im sorry I opened a can of worms. I need to keep some things to myself. I am happy you have the freedom to worship the way you want to worship. I am thankful I can do the same.
---shira4368 on 9/11/13


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Does it really matter? Look at you religions now. Lot of rules, not much Gospel being sow around.
---Bryan on 9/11/13


Cluny how long have you been a Monk?
---Jimbo on 9/11/13


I'm an Orthodox because I believe what is written in the Bible and realized Baptists did NOT believe the Bible, but only their few pet verses.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/13


Shira said, "catholics have a lot of ritual and they call the priest father. they do not believe in being born again. they also pray for the dead's soul."

You are no doubt referring to Matt 23:9, which says "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ." That means you can't use the word "Mister" as that also means master. Nor can you use Mrs. or even Ms. as they all imply "master."

But let's go on. Catholics do believe in being born again. Why then does the Divine Liturgy have in it John 3:16?
---Monk_Brendan on 9/11/13


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Gordon said, "Nonetheless, the beginning of the Church was not Roman Catholic.

The beginning Church began in Jerusalem and consisted of Jewish/Hebraic Believers, and then, Gentiles were added.

The RCC came after all that."

While part of your statement is true, you have missed the point. It was the community of believers in Jerusalem that were the first Catholics. Catholic means universal, so all of the believers, beginning in Jerusalem, then Judea, and then to the ends of the earth were all universally Christian--or Catholic.
---Monk_Brendan on 9/11/13


Shira said, " mark eaton, I have friends who are catholic but I was just telling you what the bible says. I am a Baptist because I believe what the bible says."

Shira, I believe so much what the Bible says that I have left an Evangelical Protestant church, joined an Eastern Catholic church, and gone beyond that have divested myself of all I have, and I live in a monastery, spending the day in prayer. Until you walk in my shoes, don't knock it.
---Monk_Brendan on 9/11/13


anyone can be whatever they want to be and everyone has a right to believe what they think is biblical truths.
---shira4368 on 9/11/13

Ever read Romans 14? My favorite reading of that chapter is from The Message, with many very pointed verses:

Rom 14:13 "Forget about deciding whats right for each other. Heres what you need to be concerned about: that you dont get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is"

Rom 14:22 "Cultivate your own relationship with God, but dont impose it on others"

I think we have a hard time obeying these passages, especially here on CN.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/11/13


mark eaton, I have friends who are catholic but I was just telling you what the bible says. I am a Baptist because I believe what the bible says. anyone can be whatever they want to be and everyone has a right to believe what they think is biblical truths.
---shira4368 on 9/11/13


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Perhaps, all Believers in Christ can adopt a creed, penned long ago, when it comes to our bias of other denominations:

"in Essentials, Unity, in Non-Essentials, Liberty, in All Things, Love".
---Mark_Eaton on 9/11/13


Monk, I do believe that there are true Believers in GOD who are Roman Catholic. But it's in spite of some of the erroneous Catholic teachings, like the "perpetual virginity of Mary" and "Peter as the rock onto which the Church was built", etc.

But, the Protestant Church has TONS of erroneous teachings as well, as per II PETER 2.

Nonetheless, the beginning of the Church was not Roman Catholic.

The beginning Church began in Jerusalem and consisted of Jewish/Hebraic Believers, and then, Gentiles were added.

The RCC came after all that.
---Gordon on 9/11/13


Catherine, why would God answer you when it is already written in His Word? catholics have a lot of ritual and they call the priest father. they do not believe in being born again. they also pray for the dead's soul. none of the above is biblical. my daughter in law was catholic and so are two people in my church. they also believe you can sin all week and go to the priest and ask forgiveness. God is the only one can forgive. they also hold mother mary to the standard of Jesus.
---shira4368 on 9/11/13


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