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God Darwinian Evolution

Is Theistic Evolution a valid concept for Christians? Did God employ long-age Darwinian Evolution in the creation of earth's animals and mankind?

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 ---jerry6593 on 9/11/13
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Jennifer, I asked the question to put things in perspective. The Bible was translated into English, the language we speak, and understand. In Genesis 1 God said "let there be light." We know what let, there, be, and light mean so we know God spoke light into existence. God also says the light brought about daylight and night "and there was evening and there was morning-the first day." We know what first day means because it is in our language so why is there any doubt that God meant what we call a 24hr day? Not because of Scripture or the known meaning of words. The question remains unanswered as an honest answer cuts through the supposed unknowability of Genesis in English.
---Warwick on 9/30/13


Trav, you know even if Jerry did worship warwicked it would better than worshiping Travesty.
---Warwick on 9/28/13

Better? Yes in you arrogance you accept it. Where I would not, it would be a untolerable travesty. Just one of thousands of differences between a sheep hunter and a wolf.

Was going to send this to your apostle but, master you might sift/apply it for him. After his cartoons are over.

Luk_18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.


---Trav on 9/30/13


Cluny you write some strange things.

Revelation 14:6,7 Tells us the eternal gospel is to "...worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water." Who is this creator? The God whom the Jews and we Christians follow. That most Jews do not accept Jesus as their Saviour does not mean our Creator God is not one and the same as the Jews Creator God.

I think it ironic, in your case, that we are commanded to worship the Creator, whose word upon His creation you distrust.
---Warwick on 9/30/13


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Cluny: "I don't doubt for one minute that SDAs worship the God of the Jews"

Are you saying that you worship a different God than that of the Old Testament?

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of ME.

Jesus and ALL His disciples worshipped the God of the Jews - "the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob". Who or what do you worship?





---jerry6593 on 9/30/13


\\We worship the God of the Jews.\\

I don't doubt for one minute that SDAs worship the God of the Jews. That's why I call it Judaism Lite.

However, CHRISTIANS worship Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, one God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/29/13




Strongaxe, I believe you are correct. God's word was written by man. Many times, God spoke to us through this writers when they quoted God's words. other times the writers many times wrote expressing their feelings at that time. God's Word has only one meaning, but has many applications. Not everything said to the Isralites applies to us under the New Covenant. We as students should understand that. As histroy involve, God opened up many mysteries the Old Testament people never knew. So we have got to take into consideration the Old and New Testament. Numbers were hardly ever precise. Only when the meaning demand it.
---Mark_V. on 9/29/13


Mark_v.:

My question was specifically to Warwick - wondering why he was unsatisfied with God's choice of precision in some places, and lack of precision in others.


Warwick:

I said "seem to believe" rather than "believe", as I stated my opinion (that could easily be wrong) on what I inferred your belief was, not a claim of what it was (a lie, if not true).

I am not aware of specific trick questions, but can't speak for how Cluny perceives questions he is asked here.


jerry6593:

You said: Mark V: ... You are a confirmed liar, slanderer and plagiarist. Crawl back in your hole.

Please re-read this site's Terms of Use. In particular, section 9 and the Bottom Line.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/13


Trav, you know even if Jerry did worship warwicked it would better than worshiping Travesty.
---Warwick on 9/28/13


Trav: It seems you have gone completely Looney Tunes! For future reference, the word "Jew" is a later version of "Judean".

You left out the Dagon fish hat part, and that was my favorite.




---jerry6593 on 9/28/13


Here's a news flash for you. Jesus was a Jew. All the Apostles were Jews. We worship the God of the Jews.

You, on the other hand, worship some guy in a dress.......
---jerry6593 on 9/22/13

Rancorlips.... News update.
YAHshua was Judean. The Apostles, who will judge the twelve tribes are representative of ea.

You worship your god warwicked.
The GOD of Israel is the GOD Cluny searches for.

Jer_31:1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
---Trav on 9/27/13




Jennifer, I have asked a certain question countless times over the years and no one has given an answer. To explain: God says He created in 6 days, and rested the 7th. He told the Israelites they were to work 6 days and rest the 7th which they have done up to now. They obviously knew/know what 6-days means.

The question:
If I said I was coming to see you in 6 days would you ask me-How long are your days, or would you know when I was coming? Yes or no and why?
---Warwick on 9/27/13


//Can you show a day in Genesis 1 or 2 was of the same length of time as our days are now?
---Jennifer on 9/26/13//


To be precise, the length of the day today is slightly longer than it was at Creation (6,000 years ago) due to slowing of the earth's rotation caused by differential tidal forces induced by gravitational attraction to the sun and moon.

Since the only eyewitness to the Creation of Gen 1 & 2 was God Himself, His handwritten account will have to suffice:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Sounds like six normal days to me.



---jerry6593 on 9/27/13


jerry6593 on 9/26/13: you stated 'Creation took only six days'

Can you show a day in Genesis 1 or 2 was of the same length of time as our days are now?
---Jennifer on 9/26/13


\\Cluny those who fail to clearly state what the believe leave themselves open to speculation.\\

I've done my best to explain myself as clearly and unambiguously as I can, in obedience to Him Who said, "Let your yes be yes and your no be no."

If you don't understand me, the fault does not lie with me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/26/13


StrongAxe, you suggested I asked "trick questions" and I asked you to name one. May I take it that you,having not answered the question, means I have not done so to your knowledge?
---Warwick on 9/26/13


Cluny those who fail to clearly state what the believe leave themselves open to speculation.

You brought up flora and fauna as though (in the context you mentioned them) they have some connection to the blog question. Apparently not.

Do you believe in microbe to man evolution? Who knows, do you?

It is quite humorous for you, of all people, to say I do not know who Jesus is. And then you said you believe God's infallible word, but you don't. You are at least entertaining, but a light-weight.
---Warwick on 9/26/13


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==If God has newly created them this of course also has nothing to do with microbe to man evolution.
---Warwick on 9/25/13==

Did I say it did?

Did I EVER say I believed in "microbe to man evolution"?

Of course, since you don't understand Who Jesus really is, it's not surprising you misunderstand me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/25/13


Cluny: Your agnostic (everything is possible, but I don't know) explanation for the continuation of the Creation contradicts the Bible, and has no basis whatever in science. Your three theses should read as:

1. Are these new flora and fauna newly created by God? (impossible)

2. Are they newly evolved species? (impossible)

3. Are they merely newly discovered ones that have been here all the time? (most definitely).

God Himself told us that the entirety of Creation took only six days. Do you think He lied?




---jerry6593 on 9/26/13


Cluny, even if the new flora and fauna were new species it would not assist microbe to man evolution. That is why I asked you to explain your point.

For new 'kinds' of creatures to appear naturalistically, (as opposed to supernaturally), as proposed in the evolution story, requires that large amounts of new, unique, and specific genetic information appear from nowhere. Speciation is in the opposite direction of the imagined microbe to man evolution as it involves no new genetic information, in fact genetic information is lost.

If they are but previously unknown, newly found this has nothing to do with evolution.

If God has newly created them this of course also has nothing to do with microbe to man evolution.
---Warwick on 9/25/13


\\StrongAxe, Cluny wrote "New flora and fauna are being identified all the time." and I asked "Your point?" which remains unanswered which tells me he had no point. Do call this a trick question? \\

1. Are these new flora and fauna newly created by God? (possible)

2. Are they newly evolved species? (possible)

3. Are they merely newly discovered ones that have been here all the time? (possible)

Sometimes I don't answer a question because I've been busy dealing with another one, and then that question I've not answered gets forgotten.

Hope this answer now helps.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/25/13


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Jerry, I did not expect you would jump for joy. You of all people, who preach the law, and cannot keep one small part of the law, slandering others, you break one, you have broken them all.
---Mark_V. on 9/25/13


\\You write in a similar style and are definitely evasive and devious.\\

I have been very careful to say what i mean. One example is distinguishing between "believe" (such as my believing that Jesus is God incarnate) and "think" (presently held opinion). If this is evasive and devious, you must be using those words in different senses from Terrans.

\\ If I remember correctly Cluny was the name of his cat. So considering all things I think Jerry may be correct.\\

And you would be thinking wrongly.

**When one is asked trick questions like "have you stopped beating you wife?"**

I've noticed that about Jerry's questions to me, StrongAxe.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/24/13


StrongAxe, Cluny wrote "New flora and fauna are being identified all the time." and I asked "Your point?" which remains unanswered which tells me he had no point. Do call this a trick question?

I do not believe I ask trick questions but readily admit I ask leading questions hoping they will lead to the truth. However Cluny and others evade such questions as they cannot do so without revealing the inconvenient truth.

Do you know of a trick question I have asked anyone?
---Warwick on 9/24/13


Mark V: I would accept criticism from most anyone on CN EXCEPT you. You are a confirmed liar, slanderer and plagiarist. Crawl back in your hole.




---jerry6593 on 9/25/13


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Warwick:

I remember Lee from years ago, and his writing style is not quite the same as Cluny's.

You said: Cluny, generally you are too evasive and clever to actually say what you believe.

When one is asked trick questions like "have you stopped beating you wife?", the proper response is to not answer at all, because ANY answer loses. The Pharisees were experts at creating such questions to try to trap Jesus. In one, they asked him where he got his authority, and he evaded by "Neither shall I tell you by what authority I teach". He similarly avoided a question of Pilate's.

why not stick with as written

Good question. Why do YOU need to add to them?
---StrongAxe on 9/24/13


Jerry, as usual you bring false accusations against another. You are one sick person. Since Lee's wife got very sick and died, he has not come on line for a long time. I know him and know he is going through some hard tribulations right now.
you are a man with no class and no respect for anyone. It only gives evidence of who you really are as a person who claims he follows the law and slanders others.
You should ask God for forgiveness for your slandering if you are even saved.
---Mark_V. on 9/24/13


Cluny, Lee has appeared on these pages under a number of names including Leonia and LeeJ. It wasn't difficult to pick who it was, by his writing style, and his evasion. You write in a similar style and are definitely evasive and devious. If I remember correctly Cluny was the name of his cat. So considering all things I think Jerry may be correct.
---Warwick on 9/24/13


Dr. C.: "BTW, I'm not Lee, nor have I ever used the screen name "Lee"."

Now how do you expect me to believe a confirmed liar like you?

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ!




---jerry6593 on 9/23/13


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BTW, I'm not Lee, nor have I ever used the screen name "Lee".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/22/13


\\Is this hymn (which I've never sung) the best that you can come up with?\\

Whether you have sung it or not is beside the point.

The POINT is that is is a direct invocation of the Virgin Mary, and it IS in the SDA hymnal.

You might want to read what a Lutheran (Protestant) said about this hymn. Look for the article YE WATCHERS AND YE HOLY ONES: ROMANIZING BUNKER BLASTER.

He admits what you and Warwick are making helpless attempts at denying. You didn't think that "bearer of the eternal Word" meant "someone giving Bible verses," did you?

And as I told Warwick elsewhere, "Theotokos is about Who JESUS is."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/22/13


Lee (aka Cluny):

Wow! A Catholic entry into Wikipedia, and that's supposed to convince a protestant like me. ROFL!

Here's a news flash for you. Jesus was a Jew. All the Apostles were Jews. We worship the God of the Jews. You, on the other hand, worship some guy in a dress and wearing a Dagon fish hat who claims to be God on earth.

Is this hymn (which I've never sung) the best that you can come up with?

You are still left with the fact that you dishonor Christ by denying the truth of His creative acts, and of the memorial that He instituted to remember it. And yet you say...

Glory to Jesus Christ.

How sad.




---jerry6593 on 9/22/13


If you don't believe me, Warwick and jerry, maybe you'll believe Wikipedia.

"The first stanza addresses each of the traditional nine choirs of angels, the second stanza focuses on the Blessed Virgin Mary and is based on ancient Eastern Orthodox prayers to Mary, the third urges the holy souls to join in praising God and also urges the patriarchs, prophets, the holy apostles, the martyrs, and All Saints to join in the praise of God. They are addressed in groups similar to those in the Litany of the Saints. The fourth stanza finally addresses the present congregation and all the living to join together in praise."

BTW, jerrymander, better Catholic lite than Jewish lite like you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/21/13


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Cluny I have no idea what you do but we sing songs and hymns in praise to God. Likewise this hymn is sung in praise to God, not man or woman. You are seeing that which is plainly not there.
---Warwick on 9/21/13


Cluny (or rather Lee's Cat): "Does it have the stanza, "O higher than the cherubim..." in it? This is the invocation of the Virgin Mary."

Wow! A third PhD - in Creative Lying - no less!

If you knew God's Ten Commandments, you'd know that lying is a forbidden sin. If you were to accept and keep God's Ten Commandments, then you might bring "Glory to Jesus Christ". But you don't. He is likely saddened by your apostasy.

Back to the blog topic. Random Chance mutations is your god, and Charles Darwin is his prophet. Deal with THAT!

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ!




---jerry6593 on 9/21/13


\\Having never read the hymn before I take "higher than the cherubim" to be referring to the Lord Jesus. ...\\

Why would Jesus praise Himself?

Who else IS the Eternal Word, but Jesus--and who bore Him in the flesh?

The second stanza is a paraphrase of an Orthodox hymn (given earlier) to the Virgin Mary, and is used as a refrain to the Magnificat--"My soul magnifies the Lord" in Luke 1.

Saying it is not referring to the Virgin after it has been explained to you is sheer blindness on your part.

There is a stanza that is omitted in the SDA and most other Protestant hymnals: "Cry out, ye souls in endless rest, ye patriarchs and prophets blest...."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/13


Cluny I Googled the hymn you are speaking about and there is no mention of Mary as you have falsely claimed. You should stick to the truth.

Having never read the hymn before I take "higher than the cherubim" to be referring to the Lord Jesus. Assuming it refers to Mary is pure supposition and we know how you hate that.

I do not casually say this but I doubt you are Christian at all, orthodox or otherwise. Why? Because you write untruth, and reject the word of God hiding behind evasion when questioned. I believe you are likely just another antichristian plant, as has been exposed before.
---Warwick on 9/20/13


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\\Theotokos Shmeotokos, there is no mention of Mary, theotokos or any of your Catholic-lite deities in Hymn #91 of my SDA hymnal - only angels praising God.\\

Does it have the stanza, "O higher than the cherubim..." in it?

This is the invocation of the Virgin Mary.

Deal with it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/13


BTW, jerry, I never said the hymn YE WATCHERS... was by an SDA.

I said it was hymn 91 in the SDA hymnal.

If it's in the hymnal, there's a good chance that it gets sung.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/13


Cluny the Un-Orthodox Agnostic:

Theotokos Shmeotokos, there is no mention of Mary, theotokos or any of your Catholic-lite deities in Hymn #91 of my SDA hymnal - only angels praising God.

Apparently, you believe that - like you - God was lying when he spoke and wrote:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

After calling God a liar, you then hide your affinity for Darwinism behind agnosticism and have the audacity to proclaim:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

You are sick! I doubt very much that Jesus is glorified by your agnosticism toward His very words.




---jerry6593 on 9/20/13


\\"As for the hymn you mentioned, it was written by Athelstan Riley - an ANGLICAN - and not an SDA at all, and makes no mention of Mary in my copy."\\

Yes, it does. There is an Orthodox hymn to the Theotokos:

More honorable than the Cherubim
And more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim
Without defilement you bore God the Word.
You are truly Theotokos. We magnify you.

You might also look at the Magnificat in Luke 1: "My soul magnifies the Lord..."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/13


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Cluny, "God saw what He had made and it was very good." And you equate God's "very good" with sinful man's very good. Surely you jest!

How strange you allow for Genesis to mean so many different things but never what it says at face value, the way Jesus and the apostles understood it. You reject what Jesus says and sign off "Glory to Jesus Christ! Bizarre! And you allow for crippling mutations to be an initial part of God's perfect creation.

New flora and fauna are being identified all the time. Your point?

You keep repeating the untruth that someone has said God has not created since He finished His initial creation. Try to stick to the truth.
---Warwick on 9/19/13


Dr. Cluny (Whose PhD is in Circumlocution): I see that you have chosen door number 2 - MAYBE - as your answer to my YES-NO question. That is an admission that you don't know, or that you are agnostic, toward God's Creation, even in the face of God Himself writing that He accomplished it in six days.

Now concerning your stupid and unrelated assertion that "you've not answered my question whether SDAs still sing hymns to angels, saints, and the Virgin Mary", this lie is exposed by my post three days ago of:

"As for the hymn you mentioned, it was written by Athelstan Riley - an ANGLICAN - and not an SDA at all, and makes no mention of Mary in my copy."






---jerry6593 on 9/19/13


\\Cluny, when God finished His Creation He said it was "very good." \\

"Very good" is not the same thing as perfect. A healthy new-born baby is "very good" as far as s/he goes, but is not complete, still less what s/he will become.

\\Do you believe mutations were present even then?\\

I don't know. I'm willing to allow for the possibility.

New flora and fauna are being identified all the time. Are these newly-evolved or newly-created creatures? Or simply newly discovered ones?

I don't know the answer, and if you're honest, you don't either. I simply refuse to state dogmatically (unlike some people) that God stopped creating in the middle of Genesis 2.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/13


Do you have any other attack questions, jerrymander?

And you've not answered my question whether SDAs still sing hymns to angels, saints, and the Virgin Mary--see hymn 91 in the SDA hymnal if you don't believe me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/13


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Cluny I do not believe you are sorry at all. I asked you a question and you did not answer it, posing a question of your own. This is evasion. As you are here in this public forum your beliefs are open to public scrutiny. You have many times been asked to explain your beliefs but have evaded doing so. You are a master of obfuscation. This is no compliment.

The question remains to be answered: Why do you believe "that the universe exists and is sustained by God's loving creative will"?
---Warwick on 9/18/13


Cluny, when God finished His Creation He said it was "very good." Do you believe mutations were present even then?

If they were not initially present in God's perfect Creation what do you believe caused mutations to occur?

Does not Scripture say that God's perfect Creation was marred by Adam's sin which brought death, disease, and suffering upon our world. Or do you say: a) it was created this way? b) became this way by natural God ordained processes?
---Warwick on 9/18/13


\\Do you personally believe in Theistic Evolution - YES or NO? What are possible "proper alternatives"?\\

I do not believe in theistic evolution the way that I believe that our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ is God Incarnate.

I think that theistic evolution MIGHT be a possibility of how God (Who is spirit) interacted with the physical universe He created--that is, it may look like this from our viewpoint. Think of a telescope or pair of binoculars. The world looks quite different, depending on which end through which you look. Only GOD'S viewpoint is the real one.

You probably won't like my answer.

Too bad.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/13


Clueless: "It was jerry who asked me an either/or question that did not allow proper alternatives."

OK, genius, here's another one.

Do you personally believe in Theistic Evolution - YES or NO? What are possible "proper alternatives"?

1) Maybe
2) I don't know what I believe.
3) Yes, I believe, but I don't want to say it because it makes me look like a NON-ORTHODOX nitwit.

I think you must have a PhD in Circumlocution.




---jerry6593 on 9/18/13


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Warwick, I'm not being evasive.

I let my yes be yes and my no be so. I'm sorry you are not getting the answers you want.

**BTW why do you believe "that the universe exists and is sustained by God's loving creative will"?**

It was jerry who asked me an either/or question that did not allow proper alternatives. I gave what I believe. You mean you do NOT believe this? Why?

**And on what basis do you say there were mutations before the fall?**

Same basis you say there were none--conjecture on the part of both of us.

Unlike you, however, I don't pin God down to a simplistic understanding of the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/17/13


\\we know you reject the historical reality of foundational parts of Scripture. \\

First off, who's "we"?

Next, why are you dividing the Bible into pieces--"foundational parts", and I guess you think the rest is superstructure.

Finally, may I point out that the Bible itself says that the CHURCH, not the Bible, is the foundation--pillar and ground of truth, and that Jesus Christ, not Genesis, is the chief cornerstone.

Just reminding you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/17/13


Cluny, generally you are too evasive and clever to actually say what you believe. However reading between the lines we know you reject the historical reality of foundational parts of Scripture. Your non-Orthodox views of Genesis creation are unscriptural, opposed by Scripture. We are therefore understand your world-view is moulded by humanistic thinking.

You have regularly claimed the early chapters of Genesis can be interpreted many ways (why not stick with as written) and that they are irrelevant to our salvation anyway. I have many times shown you that you are dangerously wrong when judged by what Jesus and the NT writers say of these chapters. But you reject even what Jesus says.

Glory to Jesus Christ: some joke!
---Warwick on 9/17/13


Cluny, I know how much you like answering questions so you must have missed mine.

BTW why do you believe "that the universe exists and is sustained by God's loving creative will"?

And on what basis do you say there were mutations before the fall?
---Warwick on 9/17/13


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\\Face it Cluny, your NON-ORTHODOX fascination with Darwinism will not stand the scrutiny of honest biblical investigation.\\

I've never been fascinated with Darwinism, and have never supported it. Nor have I given any statements here that do either.

But you you say that **I** am the mental midget?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/17/13


Jerry, for a guy who preaches the law above the Spirit of the law, you sure like to insult everyone. You don't have to insult Cluny or anyone. I do not agree with many things he brings out, but there is no need to insult anyone.
It only gives evidence of your present state and your religion. Your free will doctrine does not work for good. Only your own good.
Don't you ever think about speaking for Christ? Do it at least a few times, maybe you will get use to it.
---Mark_V. on 9/17/13


Clunity: Even a mental midget like you must surely grasp the difference between the miraculous providence of food by God and the creation of new life forms by increasing genetic information in the genomes of existing animals. God also "created" fire and brimstone for Sodom and Gomorrah, but no super-humans were made there either. Face it Cluny, your NON-ORTHODOX fascination with Darwinism will not stand the scrutiny of honest biblical investigation.

Are you really Lee's cat?







---jerry6593 on 9/17/13


btw, jerry, doesn't it really frost your buns to get answers you weren't expecting and don't like, especially when you start the same blog over and over?
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13

Knew your reply to this was coming....did tag teamer remind you of wre$tling on T.V.? When they tag a team member. It takes a crowd of defensive opinion$ to hold false doctrines together. When a wre$tler can confuse/enthall the audience with a co$tume (sheep coat) then so much the better.

Jer_50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
---Trav on 9/16/13


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\\Then if you do, you can NOT believe that God continued creating past the sixth day.\\

1. Where did the manna come from that God fed the Israelites in the Sinai wilderness? Was this provided by nature? Or was it especially created by God after the sixth day of creation?

2. Where did the fish and bread with which Christ fed people? Was it provided naturally by other people coming up to share what they had? Or was it miraculously created on the spot--again AFTER the sixth day of creation.

3. How about the vessels of oil and flour that never failed after Elijah blessed them for the widow? Were they refilled naturally or did God create more after the sixth day?

Please answer.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/13


Cluny you have an amazing ability to misunderstand what people write, or should that be misrepresent? Jerry did not say that God has never created after he finished the Creation on day six as His word says in Genesis ch. 1:31 to 2:3.

BTW why do you believe "that the universe exists and is sustained by God's loving creative will" ?

And on what basis do you say there were mutations before the fall?
---Warwick on 9/16/13


Cluny:

Do you believe the Bible?

Then if you do, you can NOT believe that God continued creating past the sixth day.

God spoke the following to millions and wrote it with His own finger in stone:

Exo 20:11 For in SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

Are you calling God a liar? He said He created everything in six days. To call the miracle of the feeding of the 5000 an example of Evolutionary creation is too lame to even refute. I'll bet you won't find that in the writings of your Church Fathers.

As for the hymn you mentioned, it was written by Athelstan Riley - an ANGLICAN - and not an SDA at all, and makes no mention of Mary in my copy.


---jerry6593 on 9/16/13


BTW, jerry, do you believe the Bible?
---Cluny on 9/15/13

And Adam and Eve as per Gen 2. Separate creation from the male and female in Gen 1.

Cluny you have seen it is hard for us, more especially a preacher to research or abandon a fundamentalist platform. They would have to ask the only teacher our Lord.
Rarely happens. The book is the about Adam and Israel.

Deu_32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him,
---Trav on 9/16/13


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BTW, jerry, do you believe the Bible?

Then if you do, you can NOT believe that God stopped creating on the sixth day.

Among other examples of creation ex nihilo after the sixth day are the several times that our Savior materialized fish and bread for feeding thousands of people, and then His disciples at the end of John.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/13


\\Clunity: Do you or do you not believe in theistic Evolution? Do you believe that Creation was not complete after the first six days?\\

What I believe is that the universe exists and is sustained by God's loving creative will.

How it came into being and the time frame (as we perceive it) is unimportant.

I know you won't be satisfied with this answer. Too bad.

\\Hint: Hateful, untrue and ridiculous slander against SDA's is not an answer.\\

The last time I saw an SDA hymnal, it had the hymn YE WATCHERS AND YE HOLY ONES, which contains the invocations I mentioned. Didn't your compilers get it when they read the text?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/13


Clunity: Do you or do you not believe in theistic Evolution? Do you believe that Creation was not complete after the first six days? Do you believe that that which God called "good" and "very good" needed to be improved by genetic mutation?

How do you reconcile these extra-biblical concepts with your claim of Orthodoxy?????

Hint: Hateful, untrue and ridiculous slander against SDA's is not an answer.




---jerry6593 on 9/15/13


\\Please provide a quote from one of your beloved Orthodox Fathers that states that God was not finished with creation until long after the fall, and that He left it up to blind chance.\\

Did I say the mutations before the fall were the result of blind chance? No, I did not, and you're lying if you say I did.

BTW--do SDA churches still sing songs invoking angels, saints, and the Virgin Mary?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/13


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Cluny (which rhymes with Looney): Your take on mutation is an affront both to science and religion. God is our creator - not the random effects of harmful environmental factors. Where are the super humans from Hiroshima or Chernobyl?

Please provide a quote from one of your beloved Orthodox Fathers that states that God was not finished with creation until long after the fall, and that He left it up to blind chance. You are a fraud! You are not Orthodox!




---jerry6593 on 9/14/13


When you grow a seed from the ground it mutates from one stage to the next until it produce what it is should be. The seed is in itself. If you plant apples you will get apples. If you plant carrots you will get carrots. You have to break into the DNA to get a "carples" or a "approts' that would be mutation for sure.
---Bryan on 9/13/13


btw, jerry, doesn't it really frost your buns to get answers you weren't expecting and don't like, especially when you start the same blog over and over?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


\\Your assertion that God "set up" mutations is borderline blasphemous.\\

Is it?

You don't know for sure just how mutations worked before the Fall. You just assumed that they didn't happen.

I think that the laws of chemistry, biology, and physics underwent a shift as a result of the event we call the Fall of Mankind, and not necessarily for the better.

Of course, you believe in the ravings of EGW, many of which ARE blasphemous.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


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\\Mutations are mistakes in cellular reproduction. God does not make mistakes\\

What makes you think that all mutations are mistakes?

Are you saying that God is powerless to stop mutations?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


Cluny: "Theistic evolution means that God works through natural processes He Himself set up, and therefore the mutations are NOT random."


Your assertion that God "set up" mutations is borderline blasphemous. Mutations are mistakes in cellular reproduction. God does not make mistakes - even on purpose. Even Darwin gave up on mutations as a workable mechanism for Evolution. If mutations cause evolutionary advancement, then we should have seen many superhumans walking away from Hiroshima.

If you were at all an Orthodox Bible scholar, you'd know that any form of Evolution that involves long ages, random chance and accidental mistakes is contrary to both the Bible and God's character.


---jerry6593 on 9/13/13


Can't see the FOREST because of the trees. God do not change us from a monkey to a man. HE grow our bodies from the dust of the GROUND. If you grow tomatoes do you eat them before the red? God did not put his life into man until he like what he had made. Then he breathed his life into man and placed him in the garden. You think we can't figure out how God did it. God said I will show you hidden things sense the foundation of the earth.
---Bryan on 9/13/13


Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of Genesis creation and neo-Darwinian evolution (neo-Darwinian as scientists long ago moved on from Darwinian evolution) will know they are mutually exclusive. Therefore Theistic (God) Evolution is a misnomer as there is no neo-Darwinian evolution in Scripture and no Creator God in neo-Darwinian evolution.

The universe was made by God's command in 6 evening and morning 24hr days with no need of, or time for evolution.

Evolutionary theories (beliefs) all have man evolving from a missing link (a non-human precursor) while Scripture says Adam was made from the dust of the earth, and in God's image.
---Warwick on 9/12/13


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Why must we try to prove what we believe. Evolution Or God said? If God said it, it evolved. In a moment or two accord to his word. So what is a moment to God?
---Bryan on 9/11/13


jerry, your second question is based on a flawed premise.

Darwinian evolution is based on random mutations in a model that excludes God.

Theistic evolution means that God works through natural processes He Himself set up, and therefore the mutations are NOT random.

Since God does not live in time as we do, His single self-consistent creative act in His eternal instantaneous NOW may seem like millions of years to us.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/13


Is Theistic Evolution a valid concept for Christians? Yes. I will not dismiss a scientific conjecture based soley on misused Biblical verses
There may come a time when we discover sometype of evolutionary path. However, Darwinianism has many, many errors and problems come in when scientist today forget the scientific process and overly theorize based on small incomplete data similar to Christians who take a verse out of context and use it for scientific evidence.
---Scott1 on 9/11/13


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