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Biblical Prophesy

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Elder, you warn us with yous lack of understanding. The lost do not understand nor seek after God (Rom. 3:11). You say,
"Scripture you can't be saved because you didn't repent." you believe that fallen man can repent and become unfallen all by themselves. Check your ticket, you have the wrong destination. Only godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation. Fallen man is ungodly. The flesh profits nothing. The Spirit produces godly repentance.
"For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but sorrow of the world produces death" (1 Cor. 7:19).
"..if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may come to the Truth" (2 Tim. 2:25,26).
---Mark_V. on 10/9/13


I believe the problem here is how SOME people use the words, predestined, foreordained , And ORDAINED, without the "FORE" in front, as though it is all the exact same word and meaning.

No verse says Jesus was PREDESTINED to die. Those are markv's words.

SCRIPTURE says Jesus was "foreordained" before the foundation of the world to take away sin.

So we know here foreordained was God's foreknowledge. Yet where does any scripture say Markv was FOREORDAINED to be saved?

Don't let these guys play word games with you. Hold their feet to the fire of GOD'S WORD...exactly as God said it. And believe it or not, no scripture says anyone was predestined to be saved, and others predestined to go to hell.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/13


---christan on 10/8/13

What a load here. CHRISTAN has decided upon these two verses that his own erroneous conclusion must mean "world" means only the elect. It really takes an idiot to make that comparison here. If WORLD means ONLY the ELECT, no need for Jesus to use WORLD any other way through out scripture. God is NOT the author of confusion. Christan's god is.

John 17:9 is the elect JEWS God gave Jesus as his earthly disciples/ apostles. There are exactly 12. These here in vs 9 are who Jesus is praying for. THEIR ministry for who?

WHO: John 17: 20 is God sending His 12 elect into the WORLD...to preach the gospel.

What does verse 20 say Christan...funny how you all leave that out.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/13


Mark_V, Christian: Your own understanding of predestination is contrary to God's word. If people had been fixed for hell, why did the Lord preach that people repent & believe the Gospel. We know God as a Being that does not waste anything, even His words John 8:24, it is only those who refuse to believe God/ Jesus that shall die in their sins & go to hell.
---Adetunji on 10/9/13


And thus Jesus continued speaking to the Father:
John 17:17_21 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word,
That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
---Nana on 10/8/13




"So, you make John 3:16-17, Rom 10:9-13, II Pet 3:9 and others like these a total lie." Elder

No I don't. It just makes your understanding erroneous to the core. Here's why, take John 3:16-17 for example. You understand the "world" as in "all mankind" regardless.

But this is how Christ prayed to the Father in John 17:9, "I pray for them: I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine."

So who's Christ speaking about in John 3:16-17? The answer is in John 17:9 (and John 6:37) - "...them which thou hast given me, for they are thine.", which translates to God's elect. I don't need to elaborate on the rest.
---christan on 10/8/13


well Christian you have joined markv in unity. it is strange to me that you and markv are the only ones who push predestination. the scripture you quoted that Jesus will save His people from their sins. that is just another one taken out of context. just like Isaiah 53 that says by His stripes we are healed. that passage is not talking about healing of our corrupt bodies but the passage is speaking of a coming Christ to save us from our sin. I assure Bro. Elder absolutely knows what he's talking about. as a matter of fact I know what I'm talking about too.
---shira4368 on 10/8/13


"NO! Christ did not die for all mankind!"
christan
So, you make John 3:16-17, Rom 10:9-13, II Pet 3:9 and others like these a total lie.
Luke 13:1-5
But, except you Repent, you shall all likewise perish.
Repenting is something you do. It is a turning from and to. If God forces you into being saved there is no repentance required. So, according to Scripture you can't be saved because you didn't repent.
It may take the Great White Throne Judgment for some of you to realize but one day you will. You have been warned!
---Elder on 10/8/13


Elder 2: What the Bible does say is that Jesus was predentined to die, which is very true and not a lie,
"For truly against Your Holy Servent Jesus, whom You annoited, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together "to do whatsoever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done" (Acts 4:27,28). The death of Jesus was predetermined by God (destined to happen) So what Christan said is truth, because he was speaking for the Truth, and what you argue is against the Word of God just to argue.
---Mark_V. on 10/8/13


Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Jesus said that to common folk)
The choice is simple and is God's will according to Peter. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Listen, heed and live, that simple.

2 Thesalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (John 3:19)
---Nana on 10/8/13




Mark_V , Christan: The fact that God predestined the Lord Jesus Christ to die for the sin of mankind & the talents HE gave each person is not equal to "God has prepared one person for hell & the other for paradise". Please show us where it is written in the Bible that God had fixed people for afterlife destinations.
---Adetunji on 10/8/13


Elder, When Christan quoted the passage in (Isaiah 53:10) it did not have predestine in the passage. After quoting the passage he stated that what happend to Jesus was predestined, which is correct.
We are told that Christ was "foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20). So He was explicitly predestined to die at the cross by God. You get angry for us speaking the Truth, because you preach the lie of free will,
"For the preaching of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor. 1:18). there is a group of people who are destined to perish, to them the word of God is foolishness.
---Mark_V. on 10/8/13


Mark_V & Christian: I think you are confusing the Perfect knowledge of God & predestination. An elderly man can easily predict the future of a young person if he or she doesn't change. This is not equal to the "elder fixing the life of the young person to be good or bad". God desire all of us to be with Him in paradise, hell was designed for the devil & his fallen angels.
---Adetunji on 10/8/13


Christian, God created man for His honor and glory. God gave man free will. don't you understand God made us with a free choice and He will never force Himself on anyone. He sent His Son to die for the whole world but that does not mean the whole world will be saved. Jesus on the cross shed His blood for the soul's of man. you and markv have missed the boat on this one.
---shira4368 on 10/8/13


Elder, if anyone who's not seeing, it's definitely you. That's because Scripture explicitly declared, "thou shalt call His name Jesus: for He shall save His people from their sins" Matthew 1:21

You mock at the atonement of Christ, for if Christ died for "all mankind" as you say so, then no one will be in Hades at all. The very fact that there are multitudes in Hades goes to show that Christ didn't die for their sins, or they wouldn't be in Hades at all to begin with.

So, to answer your question: emphatically NO! Christ did not die for all mankind! He only died for "His people" aka God's elect, period. And not "all mankind" are His people!
---christan on 10/8/13


Mark it is plain to see that you don't read what your co-pals write. You just spout off to try to prove a point that God hasn't made.

christian said, ""Isaiah 53:10...
1. Explicitly we're told that it was God who "bruised" His own Son for a Holy purpose - predestined/purposed by God."

He and you are trying to make the passage say something it that it doesn't

So, Mark, in your vast knowledge show me where purpose means what he said it does. Well, you can't. The words, purpose, predestined or purposed are not used or indicated in that passage.
Read your and his post. You both always post things that I and others have not said. That is the only way you can continue on.
---Elder on 10/7/13


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OK, christian, in case you didn't see it, ... yea, sure, you didn't.
OK, let's try again..
Did Jesus die for all mankind or just a few?

("But let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." Matthew 5:37" ---christan on 10/5/13)

So for the third time, christian, is your answer yea or nay?
---Elder on 10/7/13


Elder, "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

Webster is your authority over the Word of God? Ya right. It must be brimming with "spiritual life". It's not that you don't understand predestination as a purpose from God but rather you cannot believe that God in His infinite wisdom would purpose for "His Son to die for the sins of His people."

But that's what unbelievers been purposed to do, not believe what God has declared. Such an act has been predestined or as Peter said, "being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed".
---christan on 10/7/13


Elder, when a person speaks for the power of man over God, they get offended when we tell them man has no power over God. You are one of them. Now you make up something Christan never quoted, you said he said,
""Isaiah 53:10...
1. Explicitly we're told that it was God who "bruised" His own Son for a Holy purpose - predestined/purposed by God."
christian"
He never said in the comment what you said. But Jesus death was predestined before the foundation of the world, we are told that Christ was "foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20). You speak against predestination, and have no clue what it means. Yet it is in His Word.
---Mark_V. on 10/7/13


Matthew 10:33 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
We see how he said to the Father, John 17:8 "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me." He also said, "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
It all simply means, "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." Christ knows the Father's will, he would not be confessing men yea or nay to the Father if their actions were predestined.
---Nana on 10/6/13


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Chrisfan: //..show us from the Bible where it does say it's by your choice you will have Salvation // John 3:15 & 17, Mark 16:16, Romans 10:13, Matt. 25: 1-13, 14-30, 31-46, Rev.2: 23b among others.
---Adetunji on 10/6/13


"Isaiah 53:10...
1. Explicitly we're told that it was God who "bruised" His own Son for a Holy purpose - predestined/purposed by God."
christian

Even Webester doesn't define purpose as predestined.
There is not a single word in this verse that even hints at what you said.
You like the other one try to change the Word of God to make your false point.
You both have met the requirements of II Tim 4:4. I and others have established ourselves in II Pet16-21.
---Elder on 10/6/13


Jerry you are so correct!
---Elder on 10/6/13


Isaiah 53:10
"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him,
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand."


1. Explicitly we're told that it was God who "bruised" His own Son for a Holy purpose - predestined/purposed by God.

2. This was prophesied in Isaiah way before even Christ came into the world and when He did come, it happened according to the prophesy.

You seriously think you're a believer of God's Word? Ya, right - "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble!" That's how Godless you are.
---christan on 10/6/13


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part 2...markv, I have another question for you? what would your life be if you were a puppet? if you can answer that you would say, I have done many things wrong. if I could start over, I would do something different. just think you may not even be saved now. if you are saved its because you chose to be saved and you chose to listen to the spirit of God.
---shira4368 on 10/6/13


Elder: I suppose these two clowns would also want to change this scripture:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

to:

Behold, I stand at the door, and break it down, and if any man is inside, I will force him to sup with me.

What rot! These losers think that Predestination, Foreknowledge and Prophecy are all one and the same. This could have been an interesting discussion blog, but, as usual, they have polluted it.




---jerry6593 on 10/6/13


Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"
Romans 2:2 "But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things."
Roman 2:5 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,"

"... whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Mark 1:38 "And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth."
Men in Romans verses would have been those who did not hear nor heed Jesus.
---Nana on 10/6/13


Elder, you excluded God in the work of man. You call me,
"fabel maker (Me), Mark V, did Jesus die for all of mankind or just a few?" If He died for all, none would be in hell already. Then say,
"Why did God say to hear His son if there is no choice? (Matt 17:5c)" Making a choice and having a will that is free are two different things. Only His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. Then say,
"Why did the publican ask God to be merciful to him? (Luke 18:13)" Because the Holy Spirit convicted him of sin against God. Then say,
"You are sinners just like everyone else." we are sinners saved by grace. And it is you who gets personal, making remarks at me.
---Mark_V. on 10/6/13


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"John 15:16 that you quoted while replying Elder does not refer to choice for Heaven or Hell but talking about choice to serve in God's vineyard here on earth." Adetunji

Talk is cheap! So then, why not show us from the Bible where it does say that it's by your own choice you will have salvation - that was a promise from God? You forgot one thing, to read the context of the whole of John 15, verses 1 to 27, let alone the Bible itself.



jerry6593 - you know what? Every word you spew, yes, they were predestined by God too. Not for our glory but His. It has a purpose and if He doesn't show mercy, it would be reason enough for Him to do what He needs to do with an unbeliever of His Word.
---christan on 10/6/13


Jerry, you are speaking like one who is saved by his own free will. You say,
"christen & markie: Your words are a waste of time." My words are not for you and those who believe in free will, but for those are are studying about God and asking questions about Scripture. Then say,
" Your hearts are as hard as flint. Your logic, like your minds, is confused and self-denying." Coming from someone who is saved by the law, that does not bother me. No salvation either under the law.
Then say, "Why don't you knock it off and find some website for predestination losers?" Those who believe already in the salvation by God don't need help. Those who want to learn about the God of the Bible do.
---Mark_V. on 10/6/13


OK, let's try again..
Did Jesus die for all mankind or just a few?

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." Matthew 5:37" ---christan on 10/5/13

So, christian is your answer yea or nay?
---Elder on 10/6/13


"did Jesus die for all of mankind or just a few?" Elder

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:37,65

Are there souls in Hades at this moment? I'm certain there are multitudes in there from time beginning. And from Jesus's declaration given above, would you say they are there of their own choice or was it because the Father didn't give them to His Son, that's why they are there?

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." Matthew 5:37
---christan on 10/5/13


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Christian: John 15:16 that you quoted while replying Elder does not refer to choice for Heaven or Hell but talking about choice to serve in God's vineyard here on earth.
---Adetunji on 10/5/13


So, Christian and the other fabel maker Mark V, did Jesus die for all of mankind or just a few?
Why did God say to hear His son if there is no choice? (Matt 17:5c)
Why did the publican ask God to be merciful to him? (Luke 18:13) Why did he request that God be his propitiation for sin?
You people just want to be special and you are not. You are sinners just like everyone else. If you really believe what you are trying to teach you are as lost as ever, no matter what you call me.
You both prove that you have never studied God's Word and have no idea.
---Elder on 10/5/13


christen & markie: Your words are a waste of time. Your hearts are as hard as flint. Your logic, like your minds, is confused and self-denying. You have hijacked yet another fine discussion blog to regurgitate your tired old predestination garbage. No one is buying it. Why don't you knock it off and find some website for predestination losers?





---jerry6593 on 10/5/13


Elder, you teach a cultish religions when you speak. When you answer you never give the glory and honor to God, always man. You say,
"The word "Free-will" appears over 15 times in scripture." free will is never mentioned, because the will is not free. Then give,
We freely, by our own self-will, take Jesus as our Savior and Lord or reject Him." Scripture tells us that "there is none who understands, and there is none who seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11). you say it's possible, God says no. Then say,
Matt 6:33 seek ye first... Seek is a form of action on the part of the indivual." Who do you think seeks after God? Those who believe already. The lost do not seek after God.
---Mark_V. on 10/5/13


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"The HOLY SPIRIT calls all people. But only a few will choose to listen. Jhn 16:7,8" Smauelbb7

And the lies just keeps on coming! Where does it say in John 16:7,8 after Christ was telling His apostles about the Comforter that "only a few will choose to listen"? You imagine what's not even said.



"In Luke 18 Jesus told the rich ruler that he lacked one thing. What do you suppose it was?" Elder

Definitely nothing about freewill! In fact later in verses 26,27 Christ replied His apostles when asked, "And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? And He said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."
---christan on 10/4/13


Elder, Jesus declared explicitly, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain" John 15:16

So what verses have you really given? Nothing at all! Nothing that supports your imaginative freewill.

You go against the Truth and if not for the Holy Bible that God so graciously gave to His people and more importantly, His Holy Spirit (aka the Spirit of Truth), we would have been so easily deceived by your kind.

But Christ explicitly declared, "...insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Try hard as you will, you can't fool those who are His!
---christan on 10/4/13


"You said "freewill" appeared 15 times in the Bible? Where? Just one will do..."
christan
Oh yea? Why will one do today? We have posted the verses over and over. You and your servants have rejected them all just like you rejected the statements today.
There are a lot just like you that make the freewill choice to be willingly ignorant.
It would be hard to explain any plainer than I have on my last post.
In Luke 18 Jesus told the rich ruler that he lacked one thing. What do you suppose it was? Did Jesus say, "Augg... sorry.. we didn't choose you to be saved so go on to Hell?"
---Elder on 10/4/13


Sheep hear the voice of JESUS and come to him. Goats refuse to listen to JESUS and are lost. On that we agree. I just believe that GOD does not force anyone to be saved. But we are all lost before coming to JESUS. Romans 3. So we are all by nature goats.

The HOLY SPIRIT calls all people. But only a few will choose to listen.
Jhn 16:7,8

Nevertheless I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
---Samuelbb7 on 10/4/13


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Hebrews 2:3 "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him,"
Hebrews 3: "Harden not your hearts", "Take heed, brethren,", "while it is called To day, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

A man must care and guard that which the Lord entrust him as the earnest of his salvation. He did say, "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine..." It is not automatic and neither is Salvation predestined.
Salvation belong to whosoever will, (Mark 3:35).
---Nana on 10/4/13


"We freely, by our own self-will, take Jesus as our Savior and Lord or reject Him." Elder

Ya right. You'd almost convinced me that "freewill" to choose Jesus is almost real. But somehow, by the grace and mercy of God through His blessed Word, the Lord Jesus Christ calls you a liar just like your father the devil.

It's Christ who explicitly declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." and again, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

You said "freewill" appeared 15 times in the Bible? Where? Just one will do...
---christan on 10/4/13


jerry6593,

You really think the Gospel is meant for the reprobates (goats)? Well, according to Christ,

"To him the porter openeth, and the sheep hear His voice: and He calleth His own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when He putteth forth His own sheep, He goeth before them, and the sheep follow Him: for they know His voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:4-6

It's meant ONLY for His sheep, never the goats. The goats hear but they will never follow Christ and that's because they're not of His flock. It matters not what you think about election. It's been decided from all eternity by God who'll be the sheep and goat.
---christan on 10/4/13


John 1:12 "But as many as received him..."
The word "received" is the greek "Lambano." It means, "to take, to take hold of." It is also used in instances meaning or suggesting "a self-promoted taking."
In Acts 1:8 the word receive means the same thing.
The word "Free-will" appears over 15 times in scripture.
We freely, by our own self-will, take Jesus as our Savior and Lord or reject Him.
Jesus either died for the world as Scriptures says or He died for just part of it.
Matt 6:33 seek ye first... Seek is a form of action on the part of the indivual.
Salvation has appeared to all mankind. Why would some be saved and others not if Calvain cultist were telling truth?
---Elder on 10/4/13


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God made us in His image. He gave us a mind, heart body and spirit. He didn't make up a puppet but He gave us the mind to choose what we do and what we believe. yes, He made us this way.
---shira4368 on 10/4/13


Samuel, don't compare, read the Bible. You say,
"Tulip and predestination say that it is false." free will is false. " As well as the places where GOD says he loves all people."
Read this passage cleary,
"But God, who is rich in mercy, "because of His great love with which He loved us" If He loved everyone the same why mention the great love He has for us believers? "even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved.." Those he made alive is us, because of the great love He had for us.
Reading Scripture and beliving in it by faith you get all your answers.
---Mark_V. on 10/4/13


Now Markie boy: You can't possibly be that dense that you don't understand simple logic. If a person is permanently lost because he was predestined by God to be so, then all of your words to allegedly save him are a waste of time since his condition cannot be changed. This is the philosophy that you and your alter ego christen continuously spew (albeit not the topic of the blog). Doesn't that make you feel stupid? It should!



---jerry6593 on 10/4/13


"True Free Will is not mentioned in the Bible. But Jesus said.
Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. " jerry6593


To you John 12:32 supports freewill? Ya right.

You had better read John 6:37, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.", 44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." & 65 "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Conclusion, the "all men" in John 12:32 simply points to John 6:37,44,65.
---christan on 10/3/13


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Jerry, my point is that you are one lost puppy. Oh, Kathr said those who are Gentiles, Jesus called them dogs. So you must be a puppy who is not only sick, but lost. I bet you got the point this time.
---Mark_V. on 10/3/13


True Free Will is not mentioned in the Bible. But Jesus said.
Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Tulip and predestination say that it is false. As well as the places where GOD says he loves all people.
Psa 117:1,2
O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people. For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

Since part of tulip is false by scripture I think most of it is.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/3/13


christanmark: And your point is........???
---jerry6593 on 10/3/13


Jerry, your trying to be sarcastic. I told Scott, people like you don't like for God to chose whom He wants to save. Your sarcasm is against God's Word, not Christan or me. You say,
" All of your words are a waste of time." To you they are a waste of time. But not to those who God wants them to learn how they were saved. Then say," We were all either saved or lost before the foundation of the world - remember?" Yes, believers were chosen by God before the foundation of the world in love for salvation.
"Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we (believers) should be holy and without blame before Him in love." (Eph. 1:4). You speak against God and His Word Jerry.
---Mark_V. on 10/3/13


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"We were all either saved or lost before the foundation of the world - remember? So what earthly good can all your nattering do when we are not able to make a choice in the matter." jerry6593

"Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake. Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God? But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." Psalm 115:1-3

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matthew 12:36,37
---christan on 10/2/13


christanmark: All of your words are a waste of time. We were all either saved or lost before the foundation of the world - remember? So what earthly good can all your nattering do when we are not able to make a choice in the matter. Your presence here is useless.




---jerry6593 on 10/2/13


Scott 1, it's hard to believe something when you have been taught another way. Some have been Christians for many years, and don't want to admit they have been wrong all this time. They know that at some point in time, they committed their lives to Christ, yet don't know how it happened. People preaching say they did it out of their own free will, when free will is not even mention in Scripture. They don't mind God not getting the glory and honor for their salvation, they confessed they decided to receive Christ as their Savior by their own free will. God had nothing to do with their salvation, they believe, it was all because they made the right decision while others didn't. If God created them smarter then, it was by God's will they are saved.
---Mark_V. on 10/2/13


Scott1, bad news for you - freewill and predestination doesn't go hand in hand. But maybe if you say, "God's freewill is acted out in His predestination of the man", yes I will agree with you. But the freewill of man and God's predestination co-existing, nah... impossible.

How can you even dare say that it was "people choice to kill him by their own choice" when Acts 4:27-29 explicitly declared, "...were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."? - this is a classic case and absolute definition of predestination, mind you.

You see, in the predestination of God, only He is glorified and praise, no one else.
---christan on 10/1/13


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"Why bother, indeed! If all your preaching cannot effect a change in a person to accept Christ of his own FREE WILL in order to be saved, then what good is it? " jerry6593

"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." John 6:29, "...for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

You sound like you want to steal God's glory in saving a sinner. Beware and harken unto His Word,

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8
---christan on 10/1/13


Christian
matthew 27:17. matthew 27:24-27.
God used that event to bring about salvation I am not arguing that. I am arguing that people choice to kill him by their own choice. Pilate could have easilied saved Jesus but he choose not to. did God know, absolutely did Pilate have a choice, absolutely.
So by your statement that this is NOT a free will act by humans, only God is left made them not release Jesus and cruxify him, therefore God made humans sin. However, if man has free will to choose to cruxify christ then God being soverign can bring about salvation through that sin without sinning himself.
---Scott1 on 10/1/13


Christian
Yes it does that is why a put

//God used it to bring about salvation for the world, which is the predestination part.//

i am showing you the other side of the coin, free will and predestination together.
Peace.
---Scott1 on 10/1/13


"Pilate wanted Jesus dead to keep the peace (man's free will)" Scott1

Freewill? Ya right. Does your bible not have Acts 4:27-29?

"The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Try doing a wedgie of your freewill to this written verses without being foolish.
---christan on 10/1/13


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Jerry, your problem is that you do not want God to call and choose those whom He desires to save, how dare He does that.
Jesus should wait for you to choose Him if you like Him enough. Your words only give proof you are still at enmity against God. You have no faith in His Word. You do sound like you are still under the Law, not under Grace. We can only judge your salvation by what you say.
---Mark_V. on 10/1/13


christen: Why bother, indeed! If all your preaching cannot effect a change in a person to accept Christ of his own FREE WILL in order to be saved, then what good is it? According to you, the saved are already saved, and the lost already lost, so what difference can all your words possibly make? They are useless, and yours is an exercise in futility. Come to think of it, you must think that Jesus' mission was also a lost cause because he came to do an impossible task - save the lost!




---jerry6593 on 10/1/13


"So why bother? What will be will be, right?" jerry6593

"why bother" you ask? Because that's the instruction from Christ, "to go forth and preach the Gospel", even though we're told that God has already chosen His people from eternity. But whom He's chosen, I know not and it's none of my business to know.

Didn't God tell Moses before going to Pharaoh that He was going to harden Pharaoh's heart to not let His people go? Guess what? Even with this knowledge from God, Moses still went forth to tell Pharaoh what God wanted him to say, "let my people go"!

Did Moses take your attitude as to "why bother" since God was going to harden his heart?
---christan on 9/30/13


See Pilate and Jesus's trial. Pilate wanted Jesus dead to keep the peace (man's free will) however, God used it to bring about salvation for the world, which is the predestination..
---Scott1 on 9/30/13

Recorded of Pilate below.

Mat_27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 9/30/13


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No,

Developing means activitly and knowingly working to fullfill prophesy. They are not that smart. They only make choices (free will) to do what is in their best interest. If God wants to use that choice to bring about prophesy that is his ability because he is soverign. See Pilate and Jesus's trial. Pilate wanted Jesus dead to keep the peace (man's free will) however, God used it to bring about salvation for the world, which is the predestination part.
---Scott1 on 9/30/13


christen: "ALL CAME TO PAST"

You must be MarkV! Your English is equally bad.

You are making the mistake of supposing that the three separate and distinct concepts of predestination, foreknowledge, and prophecy are one and the same. THEY ARE NOT!

Why do you even bother contributing on CN. You consider yourself to be one of the chosen, and hence saved no matter what. And the rest of us you consider lost no matter what, with no free will to change directions. So why bother? What will be will be, right?




---jerry6593 on 9/30/13


Isaiah 46:11 "Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel..."
Isaiah
v8 "Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors."
v12 "Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:"

God's councel could not have been to create their transgression or stoutheartedness.
Verses 8 and 12 place v12 in the light of it being in the context of repercussion and of judgement for their transgression.
Christ spoke of the way,God always sent someone to show it to the people (Matthew 23:37).
Here is knowledge of the end from the beginning,Trow a piece of wood into the river, will it end upstream?.
---Nana on 9/30/13


jerry6593, because of your unbelief in the predestination of God, you have totally no idea of what's the meaning of a prophesy.

You see, prophesies from the prophets of God ALL CAME TO PAST and those that has still to come, WILL COME TO PAST.

Did God then prophesy to Abraham because He looked into His crystal ball wearing a bandana over His head? Or did He know what was going to happen because He willed and purposed it? Take your pick but bear in mind what He spoke in Deuteronomy 18:22,

"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
---christan on 9/29/13


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"No, it wasn't, God told ABRAM, and doubtless the story was passed down to Moses." Cluny

My mistake and I stand corrected.

Thank you very much.
---christan on 9/29/13


"No, it wasn't, God told ABRAM, and doubtless the story was passed down to Moses." Cluny

My mistake and I stand corrected. Apologies.

Thank you very much.
---christan on 9/29/13


Jesus says, "when these things begin to happen, look up" (Luke 21:28). He does not say to spend so much spare time and prayer time looking around at what the world is doing. But our attention needs to first be with being submissive to our Father and how He rules us with His peace in our hearts >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15).

Yes, Satan's kingdom always has his conspiracies and trickeries, etc. There is nothing new under the sun.

"His people keep getting worse (2 Timothy 3:13), and therefore their marriages get worse."

Philippians 2:14-16
---willie_c: on 9/29/13


christan: "Yes, believe it or not, it was purposed and predestined by God."

No, it was not! It was PROPHESIED! There's a difference.



---jerry6593 on 9/29/13


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The spiritual "world" determines & controls what goes on in this physical realm. Sometimes, earthlings are completely ignorant of the influence of the spiritual beings upon them, but surely & steadily they carry on till scriptural prophecies are fulfilled. Kindly note that this is not to say that God has assigned some for paradise or hell without minding their actions.
---Adetunji on 9/29/13


\\Wasn't it God who told Moses, "And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them, and they shall afflict them four hundred years"\\

No, it wasn't, God told ABRAM, and doubtless the story was passed down to Moses.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/29/13


It's like saying Egypt in the OT had a strategic plan to enslave the children of Israel. Is that how it happned? Wasn't it God who told Moses, "And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them, and they shall afflict them four hundred years" - and it came to past.

How did God know? Well, explicitly He declared, "Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaish 46:11

Yes, believe it or not, it was purposed and predestined by God. Everything, including the death of His Son.
---christan on 9/29/13


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