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What Did Adam Lose

What did Adam lost to satan that God had to pay such a high price to get it back for us?

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 ---Bryan on 9/29/13
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'Satan using the power of death is subject to God's will... Satan is simply a tool of God'- MarkV.

Recall what Hebrews 2:14 states. The context confirms MarkV's blasphemy.

'...he (Christ) also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil'- Heb.2:14.

Falsely equating 'God's will' with the devils 'power of death', MarkV believes Heb.2:14 teaches Christ's death 'destroys the will of God'. But Christ is not operating against God's will! Dan.4:35 says nobody can. Christ is operating against the will of the devil, not God. MarkV is unable to distinguish between the two.

MarkV's apostasy is rife with contradiction and blasphemy!
---David8318 on 10/9/13


'Satan is inconsequential in the disobedience and sin of Adam.
Gen_3:17 Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife'- TheSeg.

You like MarkV ignore God's judgments on all guilty parties in Eden. Who was it that Eve listened to?- Gen.3:1-4.

'Satan using the power of death is subject to God's will'- TheSeg. You take Ro.13:1 out of context. 'The powers' here do not refer to the devils 'power of death'. You blasphemously believe Christ died to 'destroy God's will... the devils power of death'- Heb.2:14.

'Satan is simply a tool used by God to bring death and misery to the human race.
Rom_8:28'- TheSeg. You equate 'God's works' with the devils. The Pharisees did this and were condemned by Christ to Gehenna!
---David8318 on 10/9/13


Satan is inconsequential in the disobedience and sin of Adam.
Gen_3:17 Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife.

Satan using the power of death is subject to God's will.
Rom_13:1 For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Satan is simply a tool used by God to bring death and misery to the human race.
Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

God is the only one, who has power over life and death!
Cannot you, yourself, kill a man?
Does this mean you have the power of death?

You cannot even die without God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/9/13


Yes Bryan, I agree... Satan did have the 'power of death' but Jesus destroyed it as the Bible tells us at Hebrews 2:14.

Even though Satan was hugely influential in Jesus' death (Lu.22:3,4, Jo.13:26,27) Satan in fact sealed his own destruction. Jesus' death both releases us from the condemnation to sin & eternal death, and destroys Satans power of death.

All that now remains is for the final part of Genesis 3:15 to be fulfilled when the 'seed' of the woman (Christ) will 'crush the serpents head', and destroy Satan completely. (Rev.20:10)

Righteous mankind will then regain what Adam lost. 'Praise Jehovah' (Ps.104:35 ASV), "Hallelu-jah"!
---David8318 on 10/9/13


David, you did not answer with Scripture, all you did was make derogatory remarks about me. Speak the Truth. You say,
"For MarkV, Satan is inconsequential in the disobedience and sin of Adam." Adam sin all by himself. No one made him. Then say,
" In fact MarkV says, 'Satan using the power of death is subject to God's will'." everyone is subject to God's will.
"He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35). no body not even satan. Then say,
" In effect MarkV is saying Satan is simply a tool used by God to bring death and misery to the human race." Satan is simply a tool of God.
---Mark_V. on 10/9/13




\\You see the truth satan had it\\

Wrong again, Bryan.

Satan NEVER had truth. Jesus said in so many words that Satan is a liar.

Have you no shame about saying things that flat out contradict the Holy Gospels?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/8/13


'Man is fallen because of Adam's disobedience to God'- MarkV.

Yes, and the context of Genesis 3 explains how Adam was led into disobedience and sin. The context of which MarkV evidently struggles with. Even an 8 year old after reading Genesis 3:1-7 can figure out who it was that deceived Eve and ultimately led Adam into sin.

Unsurprisingly, MarkV cannot join the Genesis dots together. For MarkV, Satan is inconsequential in the disobedience and sin of Adam. In fact MarkV says, 'Satan using the power of death is subject to God's will'. In effect MarkV is saying Satan is simply a tool used by God to bring death and misery to the human race.

This is blasphemous. MarkV attributes to God what is clearly Satanic.
---David8318 on 10/8/13


David8318 You see the truth satan had it Jesus took it away from him. Thank you Jesus.
---Bryan on 10/8/13


David, you avoided my answers to you about what you said. You had said that Satan cause the death of Jesus, which you are wrong. Then say,
"Back to the garden where it all started - did the devil cause the death of Adam and Eve? Your answer must be yes." The answer is no. Adam's sin was not cause by satan, he was not deceived, Eve was. Man is fallen because of Adam's disobedience to God. Stay on one subject at a time, don't try to mix a lot of context to make a point. All you answers can be answered by the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 10/8/13


'What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?' Job 2:10 (quoted by christan- 10/4/13).

But what we know now is that it wasn't God who brought the evil upon Job. It was Satan. God allowed it to happen, but God didn't cause Job's suffering. By allowing Job's suffering, God proved humans can & will worship Him even under the most severest tests. Im sure if allowed, Satan would have used his 'power of death' upon Job had it not been for God's instruction at Job 2:7, "There he is in your hand! Only watch out for his soul itself!"

God knew Satan had the potential to cause Job's death, in the same way he caused Adam's. Thankfully, Jesus' death destroys the devils power of death- Heb.2:14.
---David8318 on 10/7/13




'That's EXACTLY what it discusses'- Cluny.

I agree. John 10:17-18 does not discuss Satan's influence over Jesus' death. Satan is not mentioned in John 10.

The Satanic influence over Jesus' death is given in the scriptures I've posted at Luke 22:3,4 and John 13:26,27. Where Satan influences key players in the death of Jesus Christ.

This to bring about the partial fulfilment of Genesis 3:15 where the 'seed' of the woman (Christ) is 'bruised in the heel'.
---David8318 on 10/7/13


markv, satan is the god of this world. satan is roaming around devouring who ever he can. why do you reject when the bible says satan is the god of this world then I believe what God said. after all, God is right and His Word is always right.
---shira4368 on 10/7/13


'before you argue a biblical passage you should make sure it does not contradict other passages'- MarkV.

I'm still waiting for you to post where I make contradictions?

And how does what you post on 10/7/13 have anything to do with the discussion on this thread?
---David8318 on 10/7/13


David, before you argue a biblical passage you should make sure it does not contradict other passages. When a passage says, that satan is the god of this world, we know it does not mean literally the god of this world. Because God is the God of this world. Also because we are believers, he is not our God and we live in this world. What he is the god of those who are fallen. The lost don't realize they are doing the desires of their father the devil, they think they have free will to do what they want excluding God in their lives.
Also, when you read a passage it cannot be interpreted against God's nature, character or attributes. For God never changes to fit your interpetation. People here create a god that does fit their interpretation.
---Mark_V. on 10/7/13


David8318 Good word
---Bryan on 10/7/13


\\John 10:17-18 does not discuss the influence Satan had over Jesus' death.\\

That's EXACTLY what it discusses.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/6/13


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Satan and his 'seed' causing Jesus' death: WRONG! shouts Cluny.

'Then Satan entered Judas... And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus'- Luke 22:3,4 (NIV).

'Jesus answered, 'It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish'... As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. 'What you are about to do, do quickly' Jesus told him'- John 13:26,27 (NIV).

No conflict here! You need to re-read the Gospel Cluny!

John 10:17-18 does not discuss the influence Satan had over Jesus' death. Rather, the influence Jesus had over his own death- which destroys the devils 'power of death'- Heb.2:14.
---David8318 on 10/6/13


'It doesn't say that the devil holds or controls death'- christan.

I agree the devil doesn't have ultimate or complete control of death. But just as when one man kills another, that man doesn't have ultimate control of death, but he has exercised power of death by causing the death of another person and their potential offspring.

In the context of Hebrews 2, the devils relative 'power of death' seen in the deception and temptation in the garden that caused Adam's death through sin is conpletely undone and 'destroyed' by Jesus' death.

God's Sovereign right to rule and man's integrity to God was called into question in Eden. Jesus' death answers those 2 important issues and destroy's the devils 'power of death'- Heb.2:14.
---David8318 on 10/6/13


Lets not get cared away here we agree.
---Bryan on 10/6/13


\\Satan did!! Using his seed or offspring, Satan 'bruised the seed of the woman (Christ) in the heel'- Gen.3:15.\\

WRONG!

The Lord Himself said, "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17-18.

Doesn't it bother you to say things that conflict with the Holy Gospel?

Read the Bible, David 8318!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/6/13


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Heb_2:14??
If the power of death belongs to the devil, then you are saying Christ used the devil's power, to destroy him, and it is not of God!

In Rev_20:10 the devil was cast into the lake of fire!
Was death also in the lake? No!

Rev_20:13 death and hell delivered up the dead.
Death is not in the lake, is it?

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Is this clear?

If you're going to say someone has the power over death!
Then he has the power over life!
Then Rom_13:1 is wrong!

The power of death belongs to God!
I'm just saying.
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/6/13


David, you have no understanding of God.
"Satan did!! Using his seed or offspring, Satan 'bruised the seed of the woman (Christ) in the heel'- Gen.3:15." The passage does not say Satan killed Jesus. What it does say is that the woman' offspring called "He" is Christ, who one day defeat the Serpent. Satan could only "bruise" Christ heel (cause Him to suffer) while Christ will bruise satan's head (destroy him with a fatal blow). satan accually was defeated at the Cross.
We are told that Christ was '"foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20) Jesus death was foreordained by God.
In your answers you excluded God altogether.
---Mark_V. on 10/6/13


David8318, your understanding of Hebrews 2:14 is erroneous. It doesn't say that the devil holds or controls death. What it said was "that had the power of death", and you don't know what that means?

Back to the garden where it all started - did the devil cause the death of Adam and Eve? Your answer must be yes. But was the devil himself death? No! So, what was the cause of death by Adam? Simple, unbelief acted out in disobedience of God's warning (Genesis 2:17). And how did it happened? He was deceived by the devil into thinking he could be God.

Who was holding to the power of death? Again, the answer is in Genesis 2:17 - God, He's the judge, jury and executor. Not the devil, he was just being himself, the devil.
---christan on 10/6/13


David8318 your are right the scripture does say Jesus destroy him who had the power of death, key word hear is "who had" under the law man was cursed with death for sin. Jesus broke that curse. We are set free from the wages of sin which are not good. Read Mark chapter 4 the first parable Jesus taught us for a reason It is the greatest parable when you see it you will understand it.
---Bryan on 10/6/13


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Bryan, you are out of context,
"Jesus said I set before You LIFE OR DEATH. Now who has the power of Life and who has the Power of Death?" God does. Always has and always will. When Jesus said those words He was not talking about physical life or physical death. This was a spiritual question. Jesus was saying, the one who believed in Him had the promise of eternal life, while the one who refused to believe faced eternal death. Every person faces the same choice. The same words Moses spoke to Israel (Deut. 30:19) Moses forced the decision on Israel. Believing in a loving God, life was availible through the New Covenant (v. 30:6). Sadly Israel failed to respond to this call to the right choice.
---Mark_V. on 10/6/13


'If Satan had the power of death why couldn't he kill Jesus?'- MarkV.

Satan did!! Using his seed or offspring, Satan 'bruised the seed of the woman (Christ) in the heel'- Gen.3:15.

'David, you claim the devil had the power of death not God'- MarkV.

No it's not what I claim. I dare MarkV to pick up any Bible, dust it down, open it to Hebrews 2:14 and actually read what it says. MarkV will be surpirsed to note that it says:

'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Christ) also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil' (Heb.2:14KJV).

Read the Bible MarkV!
---David8318 on 10/5/13


"And God DOES keep some secrets (Rev 10:4)." StrongAxe

First and foremost, learn the difference between concealment and secrets. When God told Samuel to anoint David to be the next king (1 Samuel 16), He concealed it from David's family but Samuel knew what he was doing under the instructions of God.

When the OT spoke about the sacrifice of the lamb, it was concealing the Lord Jesus until the fullness of time according to God's will to reveal the concealment which was His Son in the NT.

When you gave Fred as an example, there were intentions to relate it to the Bible, which makes no sense. You could have used references in the Bible but chose not to.
---christan on 10/5/13


Mark v again your out of context again Jesus said I set before You LIFE OR DEATH. Now who has the power of Life and who has the Power of Death? satan has no power. The word of God is as a 2 edged it has the only power which way do you believe it for? Life or Death? you can be deceived by satan and lose or follow Jesus and have a Victories life again it will be according to how you believe. OT,Deuteronomy 30:19 NT, John 10:10, It is all up to us not God. He Just gives us his word, we make the choice. Don't be a double minded either. Mark chapter 4, let the word produce in your life hundredfold. Hebrews 4:12 Jesus know your intent of your heart. It will always come out your mouth.
---Bryan on 10/5/13


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christan:

You said: StrongAxe, your analogy of Fred is nothing but flawed and erroneous with regards to the prophesies of the Bible and the salvation of God's people

I wasn't talking about prophecies and the Bible. I was talking about usage of the English language, and the meaning of the word "this". "This" has a specific meaning - it is about something at hand. When I talk about "this reply" I am talking about these 125 words and no others.

Unfortunately, if one doesn't understand what simple English words mean, one cannot meaningfully discuss any text that contains them (e.g. Jesus's warning to John).

And God DOES keep some secrets (Rev 10:4).
---StrongAxe on 10/5/13


StrongAxe, your analogy of Fred is nothing but flawed and erroneous with regards to the prophesies of the Bible and the salvation of God's people. What a horrible analogy you gave, makes no sense whatsoever. If Fred was getting married, why would he keep it a secret?!!! Did you marry in secret?

First and foremost, God does not speak in secret at all, and He said so, "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth" Isaiah 45:19 - He has nothing to hide!

But what He does not do is to give His precious gift of faith to everyone in the world but to only those whom He has given to His Son. And that even, was decided "before the foundations of the world", and He declared it so.
---christan on 10/5/13


David, you claim the devil had the power of death not God, You say,
"In the context of Hebrews 2:14-18 (where Paul enumerates the benefits of Christ's death for obedient mankind) the one who had the power of death is not God, but the Devil. Thats what Heb.2:14 states. Adam was deceived by the Devil into sin & deat
Adam was not deceived by satan. Eve was.
If Satan had the power of death why couldn't he kill Jesus? Jesus death was foreordained by God before the foundation of the world. If he had the power of death, why did he kill all the people who spoke for him? His helpers. Why not keep them alive forever? You completely ignored God in your answers. What is He, Stone?
---Mark_V. on 10/5/13


Christan- I'm not disputing God is the creator of all things. This is not the issue at Hebrews 2:14.

My use of Hebrews 2:14 was in response to your statement 9/30/13, 'The apostle never even breathed a word about satan with regards to the accountability of... sin Adam committed'.

An examination of Hebrews 2 shows that is the reason why Christ came to offer his life as a sacrifice- to remove sin and as Hebrews 2:14 states categorically: 'that through death he (Christ) might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil' (Heb.2:14, KJV).

Thus, contrary to what you believe, the Bible does teach that the devil is accountable for sin and death- Gen.3:14. Through Christ's death, this evil is destroyed.
---David8318 on 10/5/13


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TOTALLY deluded. Cause I believe in a God, I can't prove, I can't touch, I can't see, I can't put my arms around. All I get to see is his word and that is good enough for me, you I don't. What about you Clungly on sorry cluny. How did I know you were going to call Job a lair? Cause you religion tells you that, you have not freedom in you. You don't believe cause u don't see, u don't believe cause God has never done I miracle in front of u, u don't believe cause u can't pray in tongues, u don't believe cause u tell everybody they can't, well u can have what u say. The rest of us well we will have what the Lord said freedom TOTALLY DELUDE with his love even for folks who unbelieving as u.
---Bryan on 10/5/13


christan:

When I say "Don't tell this secret to anyone else. Fred is married.", it's clear I don't want you to tell anyone Fred is married. It's also clear my warning doesn't apply to any other secret. It only applies to "this" secret, and what "this" means is commonly understood in any language.

Similarly, when Jesus gave his prophetic revelation to John, he was speaking about "this" prophecy - i.e. the one John wrote down in Revelation (mostly, except the parts he was specifically told to leave out).

Besides, our binding of multiple Bible books in one volume is a recent idea. In Jesus's day, there was no "Bible" as we know it - just many separate scrolls.
---StrongAxe on 10/4/13


\\cluny can you call Job a lair to? He was a righteous man I like what he said Job42 Then Job replied to the Lord:\\

And your quote from Job refers to the subject of this blog just how?

And how could Job see God when God told Moses that no one could see Him and live? HMMMMMMM?????

And you're not so deluded that you actually think you see (not c) God, are you, Bryan?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/4/13


David8318, what is it that you don't believe nor understand that God is the creator of all things? Including the devil and death - good and evil. Did John make an exception when he wrote, "All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3?

Did Job gave "credit" to the devil for the pain that was inflicted unto him? Rather, he rebuked his own wife, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips." Job 2:10

Yes, foolish indeed.
---christan on 10/4/13


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'God is the ultimate cause of death'- MarkV.

In the context of Hebrews 2:14-18 (where Paul enumerates the benefits of Christ's death for obedient mankind) the one who had the power of death is not God, but the Devil. Thats what Heb.2:14 states. Adam was deceived by the Devil into sin & death.

MarkV's twisted understanding of Heb.2:14 is 'Christ's death was to destroy him who had the power of death, that is God'. As a trinitarian, MarkV's view is even more warped- 'God became manifest in the flesh to destroy him who had the power of death, that is... God'!

But did God cause the death described at Heb.2:14 of which Christ destroys? No! The Bible says 'through one man sin entered the world and death through sin'- Ro.5:12.
---David8318 on 10/4/13


cluny can you call Job a lair to? He was a righteous man I like what he said Job42 Then Job replied to the Lord:
I know that you can do all things no purpose of yours can be thwarted. You asked, Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge? Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.You said, Listen now, and I will speak, I will question you, and you shall answer me. My ears had heard of you BUT NOW MY EYES SEE YOU. Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes. cluny u need some repent cause u don't c the Lord at all.
---Bryan on 10/4/13


\\You just hate the very thought that when John penned those words in Revelation 22:18,19 (which also was taken from Deuteronomy 4:2), he was specifically pointing to the complete Holy Bibl\\

But he wasn't. That's the point.

You obviously don't get it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/4/13


"...you don't actually think that "words of this prophecy" refers to the Bible as a whole, do you?" Cluny

Aren't there still prophesies spoken of by the Lord Jesus Christ, the prophets and apostles that has still yet come to pass? So, where then do you draw the line of "words of this prophesy"?

You just hate the very thought that when John penned those words in Revelation 22:18,19 (which also was taken from Deuteronomy 4:2), he was specifically pointing to the complete Holy Bible.

And that's simply because there are still prophesies from the OT and NT that has not yet come to pass, and you want to discount them from Revelation 22:18,19? Good for you.
---christan on 10/4/13


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David, you made a big mistake, because God is the ultimate cause of death. The devil does not work outside the will of God. He can only do what God allows are permits him to do. Read (Acts 17:28),
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." It is God who keeps us alive and who brings death. When death comes, the ultimate cause is God not the devil.
What you did David is imply something in a passage that goes against our own Omnipotent God. Many of you do that. You forget that God is the One who holds life in His hands not satan. Satan is there by God's permission. Satan using the power of death is subject to God's will (Job 2:6). In the case of Adam, spiritual death was brought on by God through the curse.
---Mark_V. on 10/4/13


\\And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,\\

Bryan, you don't actually think that "words of this prophecy" refers to the Bible as a whole, do you?

WRONG!

It refers strictly to the book of Revelation itself, as there were several books of the NT, John's Gospel among them, that had not yet been written.

And the books of the NT are not arranged in chronological order of their composition, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/4/13


And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
---Bryan on 10/3/13


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
---TheSeg on 10/3/13


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Genesis. Adam did not die because of Gods' word. He die because he believe something other than the Word of God. Who's word did he believe? Surely if you eat it you will be as God. Knowing Good and Evil. The fact was he was already made in the Image of God. What did God tell them to believe? Who did they end up believing and that cost them their life. Same thing today If u refuse to believe what God has Given u through Christ Jesus don't blame God for your short comings. That is a good scripture. here is 1 u can believe are not, John 8:36
---Bryan on 10/3/13


Let me make some things clear.

I do not believe that senseless jabbering is the Biblical gift of tongues, especially since it's a technique I've seen taught in Pentecostal churches.

I DO believe that the true Biblical gift of tongues means the ability to speak a REAL human language, especially to use in missions, such as St. Innocent Veniaminov.

I DO believe in divine healing (either instantaneously or over time), and believed it even before I saw it happen.

I hope this is clear to one an all.

Anyone who says I believe otherwise is simply slandering me, and is challenged to show my words that prove his point.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/3/13


'The devil doesn't have any powers or control over death'- christan.

Christan appears to be in the habit of contradicting the Bible. Contrary to what christan states above, the Bible at Hebrews 2:14 states that Christ came to 'destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil'.

I haven't said anything about the Devil and death being one and the same. Not only is Christan in the habit of misrepresenting the Bible but also of fabricating red herrings for his own benefit. Yes death will be 'swallowed up' by being hurled into the lake of fire.

This deos not negate the truth that for the time being the Devil has 'power of death' by being accountable for the introduction of human death in the garden- Ge.3:14.
---David8318 on 10/3/13


Then u kick Jesus when he tells u something different than what you believe that is not good.
Bryan
Cluny, were you talking to Christ or to some guy, name Bryan.


Who can't even remember simple names? Like Cluny!
At least I hope it's that!

It bothers me to think he's deliberately and consistently making fun of people's names.
That's so disrespectful!

As not only me now, but others here on ChristianNet! (Have now repeatedly told you!)
It's like having a discussion with a child throws a tantrum.

What is your problem with calling people by their proper names?
You like being insulting, you think it's funny, what is the problem?
Do you see others doing this?
The thing here is to be Christlike!
---TheSeg on 10/2/13


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\\u don't believe n tongues u don't believe in healing u don't believe believers can lay hand on sick folk and the sick folk get well.\\

Wrong again, as in everything you say about me. (In this case, three times in succession.)

However, God has given me a scripture for you.

1 Corinthians 14:38.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/3/13


Bryan, as I said before, you do a lot of religious preaching and most of it is wrong. You say, look it up, and never give a passage. Here you say,
"Ok let look at this real slow. satan gain access into Adam's souls," No passage in Scripture says that. Then you say,
>"Adam lost control of his on soul and satan" brought death into him," Satan did not take the soul of Adam, God brought spiritual death to Adam through the curse. "of every tree of the garden you may freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" (Gen. 2:16,17). You used a lot of post with your answers and most of it is wrong.
---Mark_V. on 10/3/13


clu Let be honest here There is a lot of things you just don't believe. u don't believe n tongues u don't believe in healing u don't believe believers can lay hand on sick folk and the sick folk get well. Everybody can see cluny there is a lot of thing about Jesus u just don't believe. Then u kick Jesus when he tells u something different than what you believe that is not good.
---Bryan on 10/2/13


Ok let look at this real slow. satan gain access into Adam's souls, "Adam lost control of his on soul and satan" brought death into him, Va SIN. how again look and see what is satan after. He is not after our earth stuff. But what he is after he thinks he can get to it, is through us. But as u have said sin can't get into Heaven that is true. but the blood of Jesus covers the sins of a believer. satan can trick believer into sinning but he can posses a believer.
---Bryan on 10/2/13


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\\ What is satan after. \\

Satan doesn't get anything we lose.

He didn't get access to Eden just because Adam and Eve were expelled from it.

He didn't gain innocence and blessedness just because Adam and Eve lost them.

He didn't obtain access to God from Adam and Eve.

And Satan is not after our souls either. He simply wants to keep God from having us.

Bryan, do you not understand what I'm saying here, or are you simply being unteachable?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/2/13


We're not talking about your keys. We are talking about your spirit. What is satan after. He is not after your earth stuff It does not do him any good, for what he us after. God made Us a little higher than the angels Look it up it is in the bible. Adam's sin we fell from that place. Jesus has given us the right to get back to that place. What are demons but fallen angels, the word "Jesus" has authority over them, again n the bible look it up yourself. We can have that same ability in us. If you choose to believe, If you don't then you don't believe. Does it make you evil no you just don't believe it.
---Bryan on 10/2/13


\\Then why are we not still living in the Garden of Eden? \\

Bryan, are you capable of grasping the difference between "losing something" and "losing something to Satan"?

If I lose my keys, it doesn't follow that Satan or anyone else has them.

I'm NOT denying that Adam and Eve lost many things covered by the words "original innocence and blessedness."

But Satan did not get innocence and blessedness from Adam. Adam lost, to be sure, but Satan got NOTHING as a result of Adam's loss.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/2/13


//Who die in the garden, no one!
God, cursed the ground for thy sake!//

Adam and Eve deid because they were separated from God spiritually. The comparison between our "alive" and the alive in heaven is completely different. I cannot even imagine what truly being alive will be like.
---Scott1 on 10/2/13


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Ok if it was not God or Adam or Eve or Satan they were the only ones in the Garden when the death happen. Who did the killing?
Bryan

First tell us who die in the Garden of Eden?
Not God, not Satan, not Adam and not Eve.
They were the only ones in the Garden!
Who die in the garden, no one!
God, cursed the ground for thy sake!

Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which (I commanded thee), saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: (cursed is the ground for thy sake), in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the (days of thy life!)

Christ came for the forgiveness of sin!
---TheSeg on 10/2/13


(This is NOT my opinion - I'm just showing it as example of how off the beaten path some of our respected leaders can get.)
StrongAxe wow, thats amazing right!

Almost like the question here!
What did Adam lose to Satan? Absolutely nothing to, Satan!
If he lost anything it was to the woman or God, not Satan.

1Ti_2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Adam was not deceived!
Go Cowboys!

Adam said to God in Gen_3:12, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
God said to Adam in Gen_3:17, (because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife), and (hast eaten of the tree.)

Where the part about Satan to the man?
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/2/13


Then why are we not still living in the Garden of Eden? Why do we Need Jesus to give us Life we are breathing, we have life. Then what part of us must be born again? Our flesh? Who tricked Adam into killing himself? Eve, she did not have the power to kill Adam or did she? Ok if it was not God or Adam or Eve or satan they were the only ones in the Garden when the death happen. Who did the killing? What was there motive what were they after? Did God lose something? Did Adam and Eve lose something did satan lose something. Who lost who gained? yes, there was a lose and a gain Don't get religious find the truth. Cause we are all guilty until we find the truth.
---Bryan on 10/2/13


//In the book, he claims Jesus came, not to save our souls, but to deliver the Jews from Roman oppression and taxation.//

That is what the Jews even his some of his disciplies wanted to do at first. They were looking for an earthly king like David. The context matters to who was speaking, Jews, Romans, or christians. I do look forward to reading it. Remember there were a number of "false messiahs" who tried before and after christ to re-establish the Kingdom of David on earth, most notably the 70 AD revolt.
---Scott1 on 10/2/13


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Conservative commenter Bill O'Reilly recently wrote a book called "Killing Jesus" that takes a look at the political circumstances surrounding Jesus's death.

He says God told him to write the book. In the book, he claims Jesus came, not to save our souls, but to deliver the Jews from Roman oppression and taxation.

Yes people. Jesus died to save us from taxes!

(This is NOT my opinion - I'm just showing it as example of how off the beaten path some of our respected leaders can get.)
---StrongAxe on 10/1/13


\\What Did Adam lose to satan? Access to God.\\

Wrong again. Adam lost NOTHING to Satan.

Satan did NOT gain access to God by our loss of it. Satan tool nothing from us that he kept for himself. That's what "losing something to someone" means."

THAT is why I keep telling you that Satan gained NOTHING from us.

And remember, the Savior said He saw Satan fall like lighting from heaven. Therefore, if Satain ever had access to God, he does not have it now.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/1/13


"It is a simple statement of fact that Christ came to 'destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil'." David8318

Do you even understand and believe that the devil and death are two separate entities? The devil doesn't have any powers or control over death, that belongs to God Almighty. Here's prove,

"...then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" 1 Corinthians 15:54,55, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:14

See? Death is spoken of as an entity on it's own. Any mentioned of the devil here?
---christan on 10/1/13


Christan- Hebrews 2:14-18 does not say the Devil 'owns' death. It is a simple statement of fact that Christ came to 'destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil'.

You correctly identify that it was the Devil who deceived Adam and Eve when you state, 'What the devil did in the garden was to deceive Adam and Eve'. That deception led Adam into sin. 'The wages sin pays is death'- Ro.6:23. So the Devil has a measure of accountability for what happened in the garden. After all, God brought the Devil to book in His judgment of him for the deception- Ge.3:14.

The issue I have is with your previous statements that 'The apostle never even breathed a word about satan's... accountability', when clearly the apostle did.
---David8318 on 10/1/13


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What Did Adam lose to satan? Access to God. Good answer. When they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, He lost his spiritual life, then he lost his physical life. satan deceived him that is called losing. When you believe a lie you could lose.
---Bryan on 9/30/13


David8318, good try using Hebrews 2:14-18 but the devil does not "own" death per se. What the devil did in the garden was to deceive Adam and Eve, and in their disobedience toward God, death came about because God warned Adam, "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". And died they did.

What cannot be underestimated of the devil is his power to deceive the world. For it is through deception that the fall of mankind came to pass. Death is the ultimate punishment for sin that's meted out by God for unbelief in Him. And guess what, who do you think created death?

Here's a clue, "The Lord HATH MADE ALL THINGS FOR HIMSELF: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
---christan on 9/30/13


Willie Jesus could have sinned Just like Adam. What was one of the things Jesus was saying when he was on the earth. I only say what my father tales me to say. I only do what my father tales me to do. Adam did not do that he said give me a bit to Eve. So Adam did not obey, Jesus obeyed. So we obey or not, we have the nature of Adam and the Spirit of Jesus in us which will you follow?
---Bryan on 9/30/13


Adam was capable of sinning. So, he was not perfect like Jesus. So, Bryan, I would say he was perfect as a creature, only. And so he lost what he could have as a perfect creature.

But in Jesus we grow into how Jesus is in love which makes us so we do not sin . . . more and better as we grow in this. Adam did not have this.

Jesus paid for much more than what Adam lost, then, Bryan, I would say.
---willie_c: on 9/30/13


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What did Adam lost to satan
Bryan on 9/29/13

Adam did not lose anything to Satan, where did you read this?
"He fell" from the grace of God! Because he did eat from the tree God told him not to!

If Adam had lost to Satan, the lord God would have not put a flaming sword.
(To keep the way of the tree of life!)

Gen_3:24 So he drove out the man, and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Why do people, keep trying to give Satan the power?
Rom_13:1 The powers that be are ordained of God.
He lost to God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/30/13


Pease add!


//If Adam did not lose anything then why did God have to send his son to die for us?//
Bryan on 9/30/13

I'm sure you must have read this some where's?
FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN!

Luk_4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk_4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Isa_43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions (for mine own sake), and will not remember thy sins.

Not Satan's!
---TheSeg on 9/30/13


'The apostle never even breathed a word about satan with regards to the accountability of... sin Adam committed.'- christan.

Paul at Romans 5:12,18 & 19 equates sin with death- 'death by sin'. Indeed 'the wages sin pays is death'- Ro.6:23.

But to say the Apostle never breathed anything about Satan's accountability to sin and death is inaccurate.

Paul wrote at Heb.2:14-18, 'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Christ) also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil' (KJV).

Christ's death releases man from both Adamic sin and destroys him that had the power of death- the Devil. (1Jo.3:4-8)
---David8318 on 9/30/13


\\If Adam did not lose anything then why did God have to send his son to die for us?\\

I didn't say Adam didn't lose something. I said Satan didn't get anything from us. He owns NOTHING besides what God gave him and allows him to have.

\\ satan took something from us.\\

Satan took NOTHING from us.

Satan does not have direct access to the Father, or a healthy physical body, or any of the other glorious gifts that Adam and Eve lost by the fall.

Satan got NOTHING from us. Don't you get it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/30/13


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"Adam lost to satan"? O foolish one, you "give credit" to the deceiver? Harken unto the Word of God and ask yourself if satan took anything from Adam,

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12,"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation... For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners" Romans 5:18,19

The apostle never even breathed a word about satan with regards to the accountability of the grave sin Adam committed in the garden. To say "Adam lost to satan" is to say Adam should not be held accountable.
---christan on 9/30/13


again cluny you. If Adam did not lose anything then why did God have to send his son to die for us? satan took something from us. Jesus got it back for us, and he gave it back to us. Cause he does not need it cause he has always had it and he always will have it. All power in heaven and earth. When you c that.
---Bryan on 9/30/13


Your question is based on a false assumption.

Adam didn't "lost" anything to Satan.

He didn't even LOSE anything to Satan.

Satan owns NOTHING and got nothing from Adam.

Adam and Eve LOST many things, including immediate access to God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/29/13


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