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Meaning Of The Word World

What do you think the word "World" means in John 3:16?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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 ---Elder on 10/9/13
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Mr. Elder, bad stuff comes out of your mouth, now you call me a girl.
"OK, Mark, now that you have danced around and shown your pretty dress how about answering my question?" After rediculing me, you want questions answered, and say,
"Again, Tell us where the words,"Omnipotent" and "Sovereign" are located in Scripture." To defend your lies, you now questioned our Sovereign Lord who is not only Omnipotent, but Omniscient. Only heretics do that. Your showing the real you. Questions asked from someone saved by their own free will. I deny your free will because it does not meet the definition of free will. I can produce the definitions of Omnipotent and Sovereign.
---Mark_V. on 10/15/13


have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

---TheSeg on 10/14/13


Thank you TheSeg, PERFECT. So here we see AGAIN the responsibility is with the person SUBMITTING THEMSELVES UNTO the Righteousness of God.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/13


christian you are just like Mark. You spout off at the mouth with no Scriptual content. You use part of one verse out of context to try to prove a point.
I gave you both a chance to show in the Old Testament where the Bible makes statements to show God's position. You both are so lame and donot go to Scripture to find answers that you missed it completely.
With your confused, talk out of both sides of your mouth, retoric you condemn yourself to God's damnation. Sorry you are so blinded by falsehoods that the glory of the Gospel can't be seen by you, in you or for you.
The sad thing is it is all your choice and will. Isa 1:18
---Elder on 10/15/13


Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
---TheSeg on 10/14/13


"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before." Matthew 24:23-25

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:37,65

"Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:25,26
---christan on 10/15/13




Nana, that is correct, we believe through THEIR word. And that is what Jesus prayed! that we believe THEM, and no one else.

I'd rather spend an eternity in hell telling people God loved them and sent Jesus to die for their sin, than I would telling people God never loved them.

But believe it or not, heaven or hell isn't based on that. Are you forgiven folks. Has the blood of Jesus washed away your sin? Because heaven or hell is based on that ALONE.

Jesus died and shed his blood ONCE and FOR ALL. It's now UP TO YOU to choose life= Jesus, who said "I AM THE LIFE".

Believe THEM, no one else. All else are LIARS.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/13


Rom_10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not, I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Well then how is this possible? Being found by those, not looking!
Manifest unto them that asked not after me!
Are these bible carrying Christians, do they even believe, are they choosing him, picking him?
I know this is just one verse, as many of you say!
But where is your free will here?

That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Maybe we should all take a minute here! And considered his servant Job?
There is none righteous, no, not one!
Wasn't it God who said he was!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/15/13


From the beginning of time, we are told there is only ONE way to heaven. That ONE way is through Jesus Christ. It's not through Allah , Buddhism, reincarnation, Ron, the Moonies, the RCC, the Republican Party, Scientology, Mormonism, the unknown God, Mary, yourself,
and on and on and on and on and on and in these last day more on and on's.

Here we have on line wonderful CHRISTIAN people who LOVE God, Love and believe in Jesus Christ as the ONLY way, the ONLY truth and the ONLY life. Then we have on line here some very strange bazaar mentally ill religious fanatics who are attacking the very ones who believe in Jesus.
It's NUTS!
---kathr4453 on 10/15/13


Let me ask again Markv! what exactly have you said to your lost son? Is he lost because YOU told him he wasn't one of the elect? Did you tell him if he didn't believe exactly as you, he's lost? Did you fight with him tooth and nail like you did your poor wife, who is now under YOUR control rather than the Holy Spirit's control, and he didn't cave like your poor wife did? YOU actually strong armed your wife into becoming one of the ELECT. Is that how election works? Through brainwashing and mental cruelty?

So your son wouldn't put up with your cruelty and walked away all together?

Let's all pray for markv's son people, that God's LOVE and God's WORD will undo the horrific damage Markv has done to his son.
---kathr453 on 10/15/13


Nana, you are right, the reason millions are lost.

Jerry you say,
"Try to think, Markie. If you needed saving, then you were lost. If you were lost, then you weren't "chosen" for salvation before the foundation of the earth. If YOU weren't predestined for salvation, but had to be "saved", then who is????"
All descendants of Adam are born lost, even those God choose before the foundation of the world. In time God will draw them to Himself, and make them spiritually alive together with Christ. When they hear the gospel of Christ the word will come in the power of God and the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 4,5). Those are the saved. Saved by God's grace. Not by any free will of man.

---Mark_V. on 10/15/13




John 17:20_21 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word,
That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

Romans 10:14_15 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

Hence Elder believes, like millions have through time.
---Nana on 10/14/13


Elder, I wonder if you have ever come across this saying by Christ, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matthew 12:37

You say that you have a freewill to decide your salvation. I disagree and that's because Christ said, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

You and many mock at predestination and yet the Word declares, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will" Ephesians 1:5

You go figure if you're saved or not. I'm not going to judge you, the Word will.
---christan on 10/14/13


OK, Mark, now that you have danced around and shown your pretty dress how about answering my question?
Again, Tell us where the words,"Omnipotent" and "Sovereign" are located in Scripture.
Can you do it or not?
You demanded the same of the word "Freewill." Others and myself gave you references that you denyed and/or refused to see.
PS. The word "freewill" is used 15+ more times than ,"Omnipotent" and/or "Sovereign."
So what is your answer? Or do you have even one reference?
Do you need more time to come up with some smoke and mirrors?

---Elder on 10/14/13


"you have a false christ you're clinging onto.... hopefully you don't die in that state..."
christan

If God predetermines as you and Mark say why should I worry? What good would it do?
If God has chosen me I'm safe, if not there is nothing I can do anyway, according to you and Mark.
So, what ever my state I just thank the Lord for His will. Would you rather I didn't?
Then you both post that I can change. Then you say I can't.
Then you both say you can't know you are saved until you get to heaven.
How do you know you are one of the predestined/saved? I've asked you before and you didn't answer. Will you answer this time? Probably you can't!
Your ability to mis-quote Scripture is at work also.
---Elder on 10/14/13


"you deny Scripture Doctrine by claiming the word "freewill" is not written in the Bible" Elder

You're mud slinging without the mud, thinking you have the mud. You've been challenged numerous time to produce verses that says "freewill" with regards to choosing Christ and salvation. Yet produce not a single verse but just hot air.

One more time for that hardened heart of yours - you say you can choose to go to Christ because of your own freewill, try to merry that with - "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

That's why you'll never be able to produce a single verse with the word freewill.
---christan on 10/14/13


Elder, you make boast of your freewill to choose Christ. Yet Christ rejects your claim of such an act of freewill to believe in Him.
---christan on 10/14/13

Can you actually prove that Christan? That's only your opinion, your own theory.

So,what is it "choose" him or "believe" in Him? Or are you saying choose and believe are the same? If we are told to CHOOSE LIFE, and Jesus is the ONLY life! then choose Life, choose Jesus.

Now prove that is a theory. Scripture backs that up, but no scripture backs up your opinion Christan.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/13


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GALATIANS 5:13-26

Your attitude your name right here determines your altitude! :)

---Leon on 10/14/13


Elder, you make boast of your freewill to choose Christ. Yet Christ rejects your claim of such an act of freewill to believe in Him.

"Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." Matthew 11:26,27

Unless the Son reveals Himself to you, which debunks your freewill to choose Him, you have a false christ you're clinging onto. For now, that the Father's will for you, hopefully you don't die in that state... "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
---christan on 10/14/13


GALATIANS 5:13-26

Your attitude determines your altitude! :)

---Leon on 10/14/13


1 Corinthians 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


Again Markv misquoted 1 Cor 1:18. It doesn't say to us who are BEING saved. It says to us who are saved. And this verse says nothing about being preselected.

It means to those who are saved, the Power of the CROSS is what is NOW active in your life. again Paul re-iterated this to those in Galatians who were already saved, but FELL FROM GRACE that is the Power of the Cross. Meaning Galatians 2:20 and 21 ARE NOW how God works in those ALREADY SAVED which is our SANCTIFICATION, not Justification.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/13


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Remember the Word of God only works for those who believe, Believe what? Believes that the word works for them. satan knows the word he know how it works so if he can get you to doubt it, it want work in your life. As for the world God is going to make it perfect like it was before Adam sinned. Just like he want us to be , before Adam sinned.
---Bryan on 10/14/13


How does one get spiritual ears? OH, one has to be Born of the Spirit first, Born from ABOVE first, meaning of you are already Born FROM Above before even hearing the Gospel we must ask you WHEN did this take place? 1 DAY BEFORE, 1 MINUTE BEFORE, BEFORE? And please back that up with scripture. So what you are saying is you were crucified with Christ and raised up a New Creature, having all your sin forgiven BEFORE hearing the Gospel. SO what was this GOSPEL you claim you heard after you were saved?
---kathr4453 on 10/14/13


"..."faith comes from hearing [listening & paying attention to & meditating upon] the message, & the message is heard through the word about [Jesus the] Christ." Ro. 10:17(NIV)"
KJV says,
"So then faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Spiritual hearing has to come from God in order to receive faith. For all human beings have hearing of the flesh, but no spiritual hearing.
"But I say, have they not heard? yes indeed" but what happen to them? Israel never believed.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Cor. 18).
---Mark_V. on 10/14/13


Spiritual ears to hear and a heart to perceive comes from God. Not from within man. God's Word.
"You have seen all that the Lord did before you eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land. The great trails which your eyes have seen, "Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to percive and eyes to see and ears to hear to this very day" (Deut. 29:2-4).
In spite of all they had experienced (v. 2,3) Israel was spiritually blind to the significance of what the Lord had done for them. lacking spiritual understanding, even as Moses was speaking they did not hear. They are still blind today. "faith comes from hearing, "and hearing by the Word of God"
---Mark_V. on 10/14/13


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Mark V: "I thank God for saving me."

What???? Try to think, Markie. If you needed saving, then you were lost. If you were lost, then you weren't "chosen" for salvation before the foundation of the earth. If YOU weren't predestined for salvation, but had to be "saved", then who is????




---jerry6593 on 10/14/13


Excellent post Nana.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/13


Mark, you deny Scripture Doctrine by claiming the word "freewill" is not written in the Bible. Then you use words that are not in the Bible.
Tell us where the words,"Omnipotent" and "Sovereign" are located in Scripture. Give us the reference as to any book or verse.
You have claimed that if a word is not in Scripture the concept can't be true. So, now, prove yourself like you demand that everyone else must do.
Now, please don't post lies and say I am claiming that God is not in complete control because he lacks total power and ability.


---Elder on 10/14/13


Romans 3:1_3 "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?"


Note the insistence in getting a brother to understand, Matthew 18:17. Hebrews 2:3 also, "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him". John 15:6, note that in the vine are fruit producing (which also, who purgeth?) and non producing. Is God unjust or prejudiced of some branches? No.
---Nana on 10/13/13


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Joh_17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine.

Joh_17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word,

Joh_17:21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Clearly they both believe, don't they!

Joh_13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

There're still many that dont believe!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/13/13


Jerry, I am not irritable at all. I am very happy with my condition right now. I thank God for saving me. I give Him the glory and honor that only He deserves. I only deserved death. So I thank Him for my salvation. And for bringing the Truth to me to share with so many others who claim they were saved by their own free will. That God, who is Omnipotent could not do nothing without their permission. Who preach a god who powerless.
I am not ashame of God, So I am very happy to preach a God who is Sovereign, and to thank Him for having mercy on me a sinner. I do have the fear of God in me.
---Mark_V. on 10/13/13


"...as Moses lifted up the snake [serpent] in the wilderness, so [Jesus] must be lifted up, that 'everyone who believes' may have eternal life in him. For God so loved the world [sinful, twisted & convoluted, serpentine/WHORL following huemanity] that He gave his...only Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God [didn't] send [Jesus] into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." Jn. 3:14-17 (NIV)

..."faith comes from hearing [listening & paying attention to & meditating upon] the message, & the message is heard through the word about [Jesus the] Christ." Ro. 10:17(NIV)
---Leon on 10/13/13


jerry6593, I believe you are so correct.
I know you notice how Mark V adds to Scripture to make his point. He doesn't care about truth but only his misguided point of view.
He said, "Rev. 22:17
"And the Spirit and the bride say Come," and let him who hears say" Who has spiritual hearing? Those who are born of God."
This is not what the verse says. Again Mark adds to scripture.
Then his little puppy, christian, follows right on his heels with his distortions, "whosoever" explicitly means "...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
---Elder on 10/13/13


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"No where in the Bible does it says God chose you so that you can choose Him, simply put - LIES."
christan on 10/13/13

Aghh.... That is what predestination is, God chosing you, the elect, so you can choose Him.
This is exactly what you and Mark have been saying all along.
We are proud of you you finally posted the truth. Are ya gonna change your mind on this too?
Remember you can't have it both ways
---Elder on 10/13/13


Christan, we all know that all who have been saved through the original Apostles who witnessed Jesus resurrection! including Paul , who having an encounter with The Lord himself on the road to Damascus,NOT YOU, is who WE believe through " their word" Without them there would be no legitimate WORD of GOD called the New Testament. They would be nothing more than a Joseph Smith,

You are saying YOU came upon a truth without those who God wrote the scriptures through, yet have the audacity to actually quote those who you say you DON'T believe through THEIR word????

So who's word then do you believe if not their word? God did not call or write anything through Calvin. Yet you believe him over THEIR word.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/13


Elder: I think that the predest boys are irritable because they just figured out that they are in the "lost" pile rather than in the "saved" pile. Kinda makes you wonder just who told them they were in the "saved" pile to begin with.




---jerry6593 on 10/13/13


Arminians creep out with their dead doctrine of freewill every-time without fail. Quoting John 17:20,21 goes to show their how dead they are to the Truth. Jesus explicitly made clear in the same chapter prior to 20,21 saying in verses 9,10 -

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them."

"world" simply means "for them which thou hast given me" - out then goes your frewwill. No where in the Bible does it says God chose you so that you can choose Him, simply put - LIES.

Stick to the context! But then again, freewill has no context.
---christan on 10/13/13


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In conclusion, "whosoever" explicitly means "...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48
---christan on 10/12/13



ORDAINED or FOR-ORDAINED? Here is where Christan is ignorant of definitions.
NO Christan in John 3:16 "whosoever" means the whole world. And verses 17 and 18 and 19 back up what whosoever means when GOD is talking right then.

Just because Christan is schizophrenic doesn't mean GOD is.
Christan, you do know what the behavior of a schizophrenic is? If not, go TALK to one. If perhaps you understand, you too have a problem. get help.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/13


Elder, you condem us, only because you have no spiritual hearing. Hearing comes from God. Not from within you.
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come, and let him who hears say, Come, And let him who thirst come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely"
The hearing you speak of is of the flesh. The hearing the word of God speaks of is of God.
"You have seen all that the Lord did before you eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land. The great trails which your eyes have seen, "Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to percive and eyes to see and ears to hear to this very day" (Deut. 29:2-4). You are using the wrong hearing.
---Mark_V. on 10/13/13


Some symptoms of a Schizophrenic.

Delusions( I am the ELECT)


Hallucinations hearing or seeing things that aren't there. (I was re-birthed by the Holy Spirit first so that I could believe )


The sense of being controlled by outside forces (no free will)


Disorganized speech - (making up words and definitions to add to and take away from scripture to fit in with the doctrine of Calvin....not God. )
---kathr4453 on 10/13/13


Elder 2: Your problem is that you cannot perceive the Truth. You have not been given spiritual hearing by God. If you had it, you would be able to discern the passages that speak of (if you can hear). It does not mean people all over the world cannot hear, it means people all over the world do not have spiritual hearing that comes from God.
"you have seen all that the Lord did before you eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land. The great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs and thos great wonders. "Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day" (Deut. 29:2-4).
---Mark_V. on 10/13/13


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Elder, Rev. 22:17
"And the Spirit and the bride say Come," and let him who hears say" Who has spiritual hearing? Those who are born of God. "And let him who thirst come" Only believers who hear thirst for Christ. The lost do not belief. "Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely" Who desires the water of life? Those who believe. What do the lost desire? The desires of their father the devil.
You and kathr believe everyone hears spiritually.
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14).
You both are wrong.
---Mark_V. on 10/13/13


John 17:20_21 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

Matthew 9:35_36 "And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd."

Let us also start a blog, 'What is a Multitude'?
---Nana on 10/12/13


"Whosoever":
- doesn't refer to anyone outside of Sovereign Grace and Election of God.
- doesn't imply the freewill of man to choose, if it was so, John 6:37,44,65 are lies.

In conclusion, "whosoever" explicitly means "...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48. Unless your understanding of the English language is weak, Paul declared that those who "believed" is because they were "ordained", aka chosen, elected.

Paul debunks the doctrine of freewill by declaring explicitly, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" Romans 1:16 - similar tone to that of Acts 13:48.
---christan on 10/12/13


Kathr you cannot expect Mark or christian to answer your question about Rev 22:17. One reason is it is true. Then this is one of those verses that gives mankind a choice to come or not come. God is not forcing them but bidding them to come.
When people like Mark and christian add to the scripture like they have done in Rom 8 we know who powers them.
They will experience Rev 22:18-19. Mark is consistently adding to scripture to try to make it say what he wants.
Rom 8 is about the law of the Spirit and our responsibility to the Spirit. Mark, with more error, adds "elect" to the verses in view of his own damnation.
Rom 8:31-39 explains the inviolable love of Christ. Mark and his followers miss that.
---Elder on 10/12/13


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Such is the hypocrisy of some that they claim they have no problem with the word "ELECT". Why should they even have a problem when the word "ELECT" appears no less than twenty times in the NT pertaining to those chosen for salvation by God?

Yet these hypocrites when challenged about salvation, they proclaimed it's because of their freewill that they went to Christ, which was explicitly contradicted by the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6:37,44,65 and many other verses testified in the Bible.

All these hypocrites do is speak like their father the devil by lying against the very words of Christ. And they even have the audacity to tell the world they are Christians. True, they fool the world, never God.
---christan on 10/12/13


"Who ever believes has eternal life. Who ever doesn't remains condemned". Markv Who so ever believes has eternal life. Who so ever does not is condemned. Markv this is a statement of choice. And as for the world, it is Gods' creation to. The blood of Jesus was poured out for it's redemption as well as ours. Adam's sin did more damage them we want to believe. As for the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ did more than some want to believe in, it is to redeem the hole world.
---Bryan on 10/12/13


again in-case you miss it
Joh_15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Joh_17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me, and they have kept thy word.
Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine.
---TheSeg on 10/12/13


Jn.3.16 does not say "God so LOVES the world" but loved (past tense) What world did He love? And send His Son to redeem?
---1st_cliff on 10/12/13


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Christan, no one has a problem with the word ELECT.

Shira , you're correct neither can read. Unless Christan thought he was posting on the rapture blog?????? That's the only OTHER explanation I can see here with Christan's chime-in.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/13


Shira, I present God to you who is the Truth. without Him you are nothing. That's the Truth. No matter how much free will you think you have.
Kathr speaks more lies,
"Markv and christen have stated many times here on CN that both WORLD and WHOSOEVER mean the Elect." None of us has ever said that. You have said it. You say a lot of things we never say. You are in bondage to sin. No matter how much free will you have, you can never get out of been dead in sin. Only God can make you alive together with Christ. Without God you can do nothing. Not one ioda.
Whosoever means who ever out of all mankind, out of all the earth. Out of all the lost. Who ever believes has eternal life. Who ever doesn't remains condemned.
---Mark_V. on 10/12/13


If the "world" in John 3:16 implied everyone of mankind, then no one will be going to hell. And that's based on the promise of God's love which Paul explicitly declared in Romans 8:38,39,

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

That's how powerful the love of God is, it saves the sinner from their sins. So, if someone ends up in hell, it's simply because God never loved him/her, period. Not because they never chose Christ but rather God never chose them.
---christan on 10/12/13


Christan, almost all of the free willers hate the word "elect." But we are told about those,
" If God is for us (the elect), who can be against us (the elect) He who did not spare His own Son, but delieverd Him up for us (the elect) all, how shall He not with Him, also freely give us (the elect) all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us (the elect). Who shall separate us (the elect) from the love of Christ?" (Rom. 8:31-35). The answer is no one. No matter how much they love their own free will and hate God's elect.
---Mark_V. on 10/12/13


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Some have a big problem with the word "elect". It's explicitly written in the Bible that these are God's people. They hate the very fact that God has chosen a people (aka elect) for Himself.

The Word declares, "...but for the ELECT's sake those days shall be shortened... if it were possible, they shall deceive the very ELECT... and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds... And shall not God avenge his own ELECT".

God's "elect" are scattered all over the "world", not just one continent or nation, but the "world" - the context of John 3:16. Get over it, "world" does not imply "everyone of mankind".
---christan on 10/11/13


kathr, the bible is 12th grade reading. some people don't know how to read. I doubt if markv or Christian would tell us if they did believe the truth.
---shira4368 on 10/11/13


Markv and christen have stated many times here on CN that both WORLD and WHOSOEVER mean the Elect. They say God does not love the wicked, who are also citizens of this world. That WHOSOEVER in John 3:16 ALSO mean only the elect, for salvation is LIMITED only to them. So is MarkV now speaking out of both sides of his mouth? YES HE IS. The ONLY confused false teacher here is MarkV and christen who again and again tell us both these words mean ELECT.

If both words mean ELECT to you markv, then both whosoever and world can mean any single human person regardless, on planet earth who believes in Jesus will have eternal life.

So your comments aren't all that cute MarkV.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/13


Markv, please explain:

Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Is this invitation to WHOSOEVER meaning anyone, or Just the ELECT?
2 Cor 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Again World= Elect or all.
MarkV, PROVE these verses only mean ELECT. Since God has given you the power to decide what verses mean elect and which ones dont. Is this how GNOSTICISM works. Certain people having that special knowledge no one else has.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/13


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well, mark eaton, kathr, you gave another scripture that proves markv does not know how to rightly divide. most of christianet know Jesus died for the sin of the whole world. elder had a good post on another blog.
---shira4368 on 10/11/13


Matthew 12:32
And if THE ELECT speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but IF THE ELECT speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this ELECT, neither in the ELECT to come.

Therefore be warned "Elect MarkV!" It's a shame how God has to continue to warn His Elect, who say they have no free will to obey or disobey. So it appears your salvation is conditional after all based on God good HUMOR!!

If you want to play games with God's word, don't be surprised if God won't use your own words against you in Judgment.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/13


The verses Trey posted, except Rev 13:3 mean, Kosmos an orderly/arrangement and indicates earth and the human race/mankind.
The Revelation verse is "Ghay" meaning soil and/or terrene/globe to include its occupants.

Mark said about Kathr and myself, They dont seem to have a fear of God whatsoever.
I say about Mark, He doesnt seem to have knowledge about God at all and certainly not about the doctrine of Salvation.

Acts 2:21 and Rom 10:13 "whosoever" is from the Greek word "Pas" meaning all, every, any, the whole, everything.
Do we see limited atonement or special choice election here?
---Elder on 10/11/13


Joh_15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Joh_17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me, and they have kept thy word.
Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine.

Peace
---TheSeg on 10/11/13


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jOHN 3: (18) "Whichever elect person" believes in him is not condemned, but "whichever elect person" does not believe stands condemned already because "that elect person" has not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son.

verse 18 appears most problematic. Its the same word in the verse same "whoever". sooo "The elect person who" believes in Jesus is not condemned, but "the elect person" who does not believe stands condemned already because "that elect person" has not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. According to Calvinism, theres no such thing as an elect person not believing.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/13


That Whosoever doesn't believe is condemned already."


"That whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"

Whosoever does not mean world. whosoever means, "who ever"
Whoever chooses one way or another. In this case believe or not believe.
All the rest is just garbish, has nothing whatsoever to do with election, non-elect, or free will. Just more trash to argue.
In this case the word "world" means all mankind. And God does love mankind. Who ever believes will get everlasting life. And who ever "doesn't believe is condemned already for he has not believed in the name of the only Begotten Son of God."
---Mark_V. on 10/11/13


Why are we focusing on one word in one verse? Have we not been taught that context is key to understanding the Bible?

Look at the next verse, John 3:17. It has three examples of our key word and they perhaps can be understood differently. And for our Greek users, they are all the same word: kosmos.

John 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved"

However, our context determines the meaning of the word, and our context in verse 19 determines that the word means mankind.

John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil"
---Mark_Eaton on 10/11/13


whosoever

pron. possessive whosesoever, objective whomsoever.
whoever, whatever person: Whosoever violates this law will be prosecuted.

Exodus 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

So here we have a problem to solve.
1). Will ONLY the ELECT who lieth with a beast be put to death
2). Since the ELECT are no longer under the Law, its ok for THEM to lieth with a beast?
3) Whosoever means WHOEVER, WHATEVER person.


Oh this is going to be FUN FUN FUN.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/13


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Trey, I love the verses you posted. None of those verses can possibly mean the ELECT now can they. Again proving my point.

Question Trey, were you once a citizen of this WORLD? But now a CITIZEN of heaven? How did that happen? No scripture states God sent Jesus to save citizens already in heaven. Then the verse may read, for God so loved heaven.

Verse 20 of John 17 clearly state that anyone IN this world who believes on Jesus through THEIR word will become citizens of HEAVEN. If God did not love this world, Jesus would not have emptied Himself leaving GLORY and entered OUR world! taking OUR SIN , from this fallen world upon Himself.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/13


Bro. Trey, don't expect a simple answer from Kathr or her teacher, Elder who loves here answer. Kathr's answer is,
"According to this verse "world" means "whosoever"."
She change the whole meaning of world.
In (John 3:16) the word world, mean world. It does not mean whosoever. Lets change what the passage to what Kathr said,
" For God so loved whosoever, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting Life" "He loved whosoever" Elder said great answer. They don't seem to have a fear of God whatsoever.
---Mark_V. on 10/11/13


Thank you Elder. Will do.
Here is a great verse Trey. From Genesis to revelation scripture is steeped with verse after verse that common sense need no explication. When God sent his Son into the WORLD, Jesus was made like us human. He was made flesh. He sent him to die on a cross for the sin of the whole world...that is...see verse below.

Psalm 49:1

49 Hear this, all ye people, give ear, all ye inhabitants of the world:
---kathr4453 on 10/11/13


kathr4453, I just love the truth of your post. Please continue on and don't stop.
Thanks and God Bless.
---Elder on 10/10/13


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Kathr, if "world" means the entire population of the earth, i.e. if you believe it only has one meaning please explain:
John 17:9
John 17:23
John 17:24
John 15:9
Rev 13:3

Now, if you can admit that the word "world" has more than one meaning, and that one must properly divide the word, then we have made a small amount of progress.
---trey on 10/10/13


I believe that because "loved" is past tense it was the "world" He created and intended ,for mankind.
Adam sinned and lost it, but God sent His only begotten Son, to ransom it back.
A life for a life, as it were!
That whosoever believes, need not perish, but enjoy everlasting life in that world! (restored)
---1st_cliff on 10/10/13


Just a thought
John 3:16 is actually a rebuke to Israel for hindering to the world by their own unbelief.
Compare Jn 3:16 with Matt. 10:5,6 and 15:24. Remember Gen 12:3,4 and 22:15-18. Scriptures predicted salvation would go to gentiles through redeemed Israel(Isa. 60:1-3,61:4-6, Zech. 8:20-23) This is why Christ confined His earthly ministry to Israel(Rom. 15:8-12)




,
---michael_e on 10/10/13


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

According to this verse "world" means "whosoever".

Now if you believe as some, that "world" and "whosoever" mean the ELECT ONLY, then it has to mean that in every single verse from Genesis to Revelation.


So lets play a game. Find ALL verses that have WORLD and WHOSOEVER and replace it with the word "ELECT". Believe me, you will be LOLAROTF.

So with that, one LOLAROTF GOTCHA verse is, The "WHOSOEVER's actually take the mark of the beast.

They just can't have it both ways...
---kathr4453 on 10/10/13


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KOSMOS is not used in John 1:3.
---Cluny on 10/10/13


World - is all of creation. same as in John 1:3 "All things were made through him...", v9 ... was coming into the world. (10) he was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
Looking at the Bible as a whole you have God, specifically the Son, create the perfect world (Gen 1), God gives us control of the world (v26). We destroy the perfect world, and the world does not know the creator (Gen Ch3, John 1:10). God makes amends to correct the world (John 3:16, Rev 21:1)
---Scott1 on 10/10/13


all people ever
---willie_c: on 10/10/13


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