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Submit Yourself

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

What does "submitted themselves" mean here?

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TheSeg, yes I do possess the imputed righteousness of Christ, and I will BOLDLY declare that I do.
Kathr

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. (Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud), but giveth grace unto the humble. (Submit yourselves therefore to God.) Resist the devil, and he will flee from you!

Mat_6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Here a funny line, 1Pe_5:5! Suweet!
Good bye and Peace
---TheSeg on 10/22/13


Of Israel:
Romans 10:6 ... "Say not in thine heart, "Who shall ascend into heaven?" (that is, to bring Christ, down from above
---char on 10/21/13

Please don't misunderstand ....I don't say who, scripture does.
Heb_12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed.

Jer_6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not, I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
---Trav on 10/22/13


"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" Matthew 6:22,23

Great is the darkness in the freewill that claims the sinner has the ability to go to Christ on their own when we are explicitly told by Christ "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

And these foolish ones say they see, to which Christ says "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth."
---christan on 10/22/13


\\Only those who are crucified with Christ bear fruit. May want to revisit Galatians 5 very carefully TheSeg.\\

Christ Himself said that we will bear different amounts of fruit. You may want to revisit the Gospels very carefully, kathr.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/13


My biggest problem is, believing there is someone out there with absolutely no fruit. I just can't believe this!
Peace

---TheSeg on 10/22/13


so you actually believe the Spirit of Christ lives in everyone no matter what? you honestly believe every single person is abiding IN CHRIST?

I said before I knew you were a universalist, and I still believe you are.

Only those who are crucified with Christ bear fruit. May want to revisit Galatians 5 very carefully TheSeg.


Where and FROM WHOM do you suppose this fruit comes from? Our flesh? or is it the fruit of the SPIRIT? Not only are you a universalist but a NEW AGER! You Need to stop snorting those crystals.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/13




Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

THE GIFT IS THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

2 Corinthians 5:20-21
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/13


Where does your righteousness come from and where does it go?
When will your righteousness shine?

I can honestly tell you, I've never seen a beacon of light.
However, I know they do exist!

Absolutely every one of you is a branch on a vine, producing fruit!
I also know, when you do produce fruit it is harvested immediately in the blink of an eye. Just like a flash of light!

I've heard many people talk as if though they were beacons of light, and yet I know they're not! What I actually hear is who will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
My biggest problem is, believing there is someone out there with absolutely no fruit. I just can't believe this!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/22/13


TheSeg, yes I do possess the imputed righteousness of Christ, and I will BOLDLY declare that I do. MY faith is in Jesus Christ, who died and rose again for my sin. My sin was placed on Him, and His righteousness was imputed to me. I stand IN Christ who is my life.

Again , please read Galatians 2:20-21....

TheSeg, for a long time, I have been having a difficult time trying to understand you. Your words often seemed evasive, yet you clicked perfectly with Markv and Christan , and they with you. Are you all 3 in agreement with you now TheSeg?

So Markv and Christan DON'T have the imputed righteousness of Christ either? Hummmmm.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/13


NO Cluny, so are you also saying you have no clue what GOD teaches?

Philippians 3:8-9

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
---kathr4453 on 10/22/13


God's righteousness is the imputed righteousness of Christ bestowed upon the child of God at the new birth.

Paul is speaking of the Jews, who like the all others who rely on their own works for salvation, do not rest in the finish work of Christ. They do not submit themselves to it. They continue to go about trying to establish their own righteousness through works. They believe that one must "save himself" eternally, which truly denies the need for Jesus or the work he accomplished upon the cross.
---trey on 10/21/13




//TheSeg, without Justification, you are not saved at all. You are teaching a works salvation.//
And of course you guys being righteous would know.
Why, because of your own righteousness!

Oh kathr, be truthful here! Who really said this, was it not your pet?
Why dont you ask them who heard me, what I said?

You guys talk about righteousness as if its some kind of possession!
This is what youre saying? //because it was given/imputed to me/us.//
But not according to Scripture, according to Scripture.
There is none righteous, no, not one!

So all you really have is a form of righteousness! Romans 10:3!
For by grace are ye saved through faith, (and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:)
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/21/13


Elder, please see my replies to you on the "Bible Translation" thread.
---Warwick on 10/21/13


The passage is not saying the Father draws all men to Jesus. Jesus was speaking.
If the Father drew all man to Jesus, all man would be saved. Mark_V.

So are you saying JESUS is not GOD? Samuelbb7

Then you say, God gives us a choice to believe or not, and that is not what the Bible says. Jesus said,
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" Mark_V.

Which is an answer to a question asked of him by unbelievers. Read John 6:28 for context. What you are doing in trying to make a verse agree with your preconceived decisions.

The only reason people believe is because of God.
Mark_V.

True but GOD by the HOLY SPIRIT convicts the whole world. John 16:8
---Samuelbb7 on 10/21/13


kathr, I KNOW you're not saved because you neither think nor believe the same way that I do.

Isn't that basically what you're saying about TheSeg?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/21/13


Seg, you have convinced me. You have no imputed righteousness. Please forgive me. (Christ has already done that for me.)
I should have seen that. (Yes! You should have!)

---TheSeg on 10/21/13


Really TheSeg, you have no imputed Righteousness? Therefore you have never been Justified by His Blood!

Good heavens. And we see Christan and MarkV have already given you the right hand of fellowship.

That why Paul said, lay hands on no one suddenly.

TheSeg, without Justification, you are not saved at all. You are teaching a works salvation.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/13


Our understanding of GOD must be directed by the truth that GOD is love. 1 john 4:8
---Samuelbb7 on 10/21/13

Good word.
---Scott1 on 10/21/13


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Seg, you have convinced me. You have no imputed righteousness. Please forgive me. (Christ has already done that for me.)
I should have seen that. (Yes! You should have!)

Your last post shows three different (unrelated biblical issues) trying to make a point about something else. (Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, (but grievous): nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.)

Here is your New Testament reference to prove believers receive "Imputed Righteousness." (Rom_4:19 And being not weak in faith, (he considered not his own body now dead), when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb.
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/21/13


"With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. " (Matt. 19:26).

---Mark_V. on 10/21/13

Jesus never said FAITH was impossible with men. And our faith is not in faith, but in the one who promised. So you continue insisting God has faith in Himself. God never needs faith in Himself.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/13


Shira, are you serious this time? you said the same thing to me and yet you keep responding to our passages with opinions and name calling where ever we blog. Maybe you are telling the Truth this time, I hope so. This way the Truth can go out without someone distracting everyone from the Word of God, the passages we write down so that people know it comes from God.
"When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "who then can be saved?"
"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"
(Matt. 19:25,26). This is the Word of God.
I'm almost sure someone will try to change the words of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 10/21/13


Christian, you are pathic in your unbelief. you just don't get it and from now on I will just leave you alone in your unbelief. have a good day
---shira4368 on 10/21/13


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//---Trav on 10/21/13// Wow...Good find :) blessings..

Of Israel:

Romans 10:6 "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, "Say not in thine heart, "Who shall ascend into heaven?" (that is, to bring Christ, down from above

Deuteronomy 30:12: "It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, `Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?' "

Romans 10:7 "Or, Who shall descend into the deep?" (that is, to bring Christ again from the dead.

Deuteronomy 30:13 "Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, `Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it.'
---char on 10/21/13


How our free will and God's election coincide is a mystery we will never understand this side of the Kingdom and on the other side may not care.

Maybe it's part of the tension (or paradox) of aligning the entire temporal and created universe with the entire spiritual universe. i honestly do not know.

I DO know, in the words of St. Paul, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/21/13


Samuel, you say,
" The Father draws all men to JESUS. John 12:32 I prefer the term choice because it is GOD who gives us the choice to believe or not." The passage is not saying the Father draws all men to Jesus. Jesus was speaking.
If the Father drew all man to Jesus, all man would be saved. Then you say, God gives us a choice to believe or not, and that is not what the Bible says. Jesus said,
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent"
The only reason people believe is because of God. Believing is the work of God. Because Jesus said to them concerning salvation,
"With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. " (Matt. 19:26).
---Mark_V. on 10/21/13


Thank you Kathr and Bryan.


Where in your statements does your free will come in? What you mentioned is all the work of God. Where do your own works of free will come in? Can you explain? Mark_V.

Yes. I agree our salvation is the work of GOD none of our works at all. Acceptance of a gift is not a work. Our will is diseased. The HOLY SPIRIT convicts us of sin. Then we make a choice by the Grace of GOD to believe or reject. So we being lost is our own fault. This choice is to submit to GOD or be our on god. Paul and JESUS refers to this in their dying daily by crucifixion.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/21/13


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For if freewill of the man was true and scriptural, then Christ would have been lying when He declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:" John 6:44

So, according to Christ, there's only one conclusion, you're lying. christan on 10/20/13

Because a person does not give a nuanced answer does not mean they are lying. They are just over simplifying. The Father draws all men to JESUS. John 12:32 I prefer the term choice because it is GOD who gives us the choice to believe or not. Now GOD knows our choice. So while he loves all, he in his foreknowledge hates those who will choose wrong. 2 peter 3:9.

Our understanding of GOD must be directed by the truth that GOD is love. 1 john 4:8
---Samuelbb7 on 10/21/13


Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
---char on 10/21/13

End of Law:
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Psa_130:8 he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

Peculiar people:
Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Psa_135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
Deu_14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
---Trav on 10/21/13


"here is another blog wanting scripture" shira4368

If you're talking about salvation and Jesus Christ, it's the least you can do, isn't it? You speak like many here without Scripture to support your lies. Anyways, Truth will never support lies but only expose them.

"well I would swear Christian and markv sound exactly alike."

If you're trying to weasel your way out of using Scriptures to support your lies by distraction, it ain't working and what a cheap shot anyways. This kind of tricks are normally performed by dirty "rats" when they're being cornered.

So, grow up!
---christan on 10/21/13


christan * For if freewill of the man was true and scriptural, then Christ would have been lying when He declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

Who are the ones the Father sents to Jesus v 45 tell us:

" Everyone who LISTENs to the Father and LEARNS from him comes to me"

And those who don't listen and learn are not coming:

" Yet you refuse to come to me "(JHN 5:40)

" Yet there are some you who do not believe" (JHN 6:64)

And He will let you leave:

" From this time many of his(JESUS) disciples turned back and no longer followed him(JHN 6:66)
---Ruben on 10/21/13


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Romans 8:29,30 Are you sure God is controlling your will in these scriptures? You excepted Jesus as your savior , and God gave you all these gifts that you don't believe he did. So who's will is be pushed on who?
---Bryan on 10/20/13


Hello,to SUBMIT means to obey,give up my own desires submit my mind
Stop with: the attitude( worldwide)
" what's in it for me!??" Lk.16:13
Ja.4:7,8,9,10. Submit to God we show forth our faith and love towards him.

obedience to our Father God.love those who show envy & hatred submit Christ like example love our enemies,pray for them. This is
submission to the will of God.
---Lidia4796 on 10/20/13


Seg, you have convinced me. You have no imputed righteousness. Please forgive me. I should have seen that.

Your last post shows three different unrelated biblical issues trying to make a point about something else. That is why you don't understand.

Here is your New Testament reference to prove believers receive "Imputed Righteousness."
Rom 4:1-25. Read v20-25 twice and notice the words, "But for us also" and stop staggering at the truth.
---Elder on 10/21/13


Of Israel: "chosen as witness" Elohyim Exist "I AM" Isa 44

Paul (Benjamite) desire "for Israel' his brethren of all tribes of Israel "might be saved'
---though repentance.

Romans 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."

Romans 10:2 "For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge."

Romans 10:3 "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
---char on 10/21/13


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Christian, here is another blog wanting scripture. well I would swear Christian and markv sound exactly alike. by the way, I have given you many scripture and you and mark just send the same ones over and over. you keep giving the same scripture over and over and over.
---shira4368 on 10/21/13


Christan again distorts scripture. What does the VERSES say? Those who are TAUGHT by the Father come to me. So here we see those who have HEARD and LEARNED of the Father are the ones who come to Christ. WELL of coarse that true.

People are taught many things BUT only THOSE who are taught and have learned THE truth of the Messiah, that he was promised! would be born of a virgin! and so many mote things they were TAUGHT and learned, BELIEVED Jesus was in fact the Christ .

But TODAY we must believe this exact messiah, Jesus Christ, died and rose again for our sin. THEY did not have to believe that.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/13


Elder, I would have looked for the words "free will" in the Bible but there are no such words. So I had to use a dictionary, because it is a made up word some free willer thought of, that would make sinful man happy. It worked, many are happy they found Christ out of their own free will. Jesus to them was lost.
I told you, you guys have it all backwards. Humans are lost, none seek after God, and Jesus Christ came to seek and save that which is lost.
---Mark_V. on 10/21/13


"free will isn't works. I think you even should know that. free will is how God made us" Shira4368

All you have to do is show us the verses in the Holy Bible that explicitly says what you have said and this debate will cease to exist henceforth. And I confidently assure you that you are not going find it in the Bible, which would constitute to you lying and blatantly adding on to the Word.

For if freewill of the man was true and scriptural, then Christ would have been lying when He declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

So, according to Christ, there's only one conclusion, you're lying.
---christan on 10/20/13


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Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:
and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

So, in all of creation there is not a branch that has fruit!
As it is written, (There is none righteous), (no, not one!)
So where is your IMPUTED/IMPARTED Righteousness, you speak of?
Clearly, not on you!

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, (the righteous judge), shall give me at that day: (and not to me only), but unto all them also that (love his appearing.)

(Then shall the righteous shine) forth as the sun (in the kingdom of their Father.)
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!
Peace!
---TheSeg on 10/20/13


"Elder, I believe you left out a coma in your ending!
Seg out!
TheSeg on 10/18/13
Well even if I did place a comma Kathr would still would be a step up from a seg. If I did call her a pig would you want to call her mama?
I also think you didn't finish your above post. You left out the words, "of his Mind!"
This is a good way to avoid answering the question I asked. But remember unrighteosness is imputed also. You prove that by your responces.
---Elder on 10/20/13


Webster is not God. When you want to know what a biblical word means search what God's words calls it and means for it to be.
---Elder on 10/20/13


markv, pleeeeeaaaase don't tell me what free will is. I already know because that is how I was saved. I have told you over and over it was my choice to go to church and it was my choice to go to the altar. if your doctrine is true, you don't need your church, your prayers, you being a witness. all your duties as a Christian would be no good.
---shira4368 on 10/20/13


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Shira, again here is the definition of free will:
"Freedom of humans to make choices that are not determine by prior causes or by Divine intervention"
By definition, if you had free will, you would choose Christ for no cause or reason. Yet before anyone comes to Christ, they have to have a reason or a cause. We have to have faith in Him and His Works. But free will says no cause. No one makes choices for no cause, reason, or motive. The reason God judges us by our motives. Something always causes us to make choices. We are never free. In the case of fallen man, he chooses to do the desires of his father the devil, they are children of wrath. As for the saved, they choose to do the will of their Father God.
---Mark_V. on 10/20/13


markv, free will isn't works. I think you even should know that. free will is how God made us. He don't force anything on us but He did send His Son to the WHOLE world...not your world unless you are included in the whole world.
---shira4368 on 10/19/13


"Then praise LORD soon Glorification. We who believe in Free will believe in this also." Samuelbb7

O wow! This definitely not from the Holy Bible. Seriously, where do you guys even get this, from reading the Bible?

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:29,30

There's a clear order to salvation according to Paul. And where's the part "We who believe in Free will believe in this also"?????
---christan on 10/19/13


And not only is there a clear order to salvation as written by Paul in Romans 8:29,30, it explicitly declares that:

1. you will not be called unless "God foreknows" you, simply to mean He loves you and we know He doesn't love everyone - as in the lives of Jacob and Esau (Romans 9:11-13, ironically explained in the next chapter)

2. only those He "foreknows" we are told explicitly, they are "predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" - so much for freewill

3. and if these two main criteria are not met, you sure ain't going to be justified (it's aka justification by faith - Romans & Galatians 3,4), and finally glorified.

Thumbs down to your freewill.
---christan on 10/19/13


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Believing, hearing, understanding, the word of God all comes from God. If it does not come from God you remain an unbeliever already condemned, with no understanding, and will never seek after God. It matters not how much free will you believe you have. For everyone makes choices for a reason, cause or motive, either for God or for the devil. No one makes choices for no reason, cause or motive. No one has a will that is free. Either a slave to God or a slave to sin. If people made free will decisions, they would have no cause, motive or reason for making a choice.
Definition of free will:
Freedom of humans to make choices that are not determine by prior causes or by Divine intervention.
---Mark_V. on 10/19/13


Samuel, you wrote two great examples down on imputed righteousness and Justification. Which indicates all of the work of God. Then said,
"Then praise LORD soon Glorification. We who believe in Free will believe in this also."
Where in your statements does your free will come in? What you mentioned is all the work of God. Where do your own works of free will come in? Can you explain?
---Mark_V. on 10/19/13


Samuelbb7, great post.

It must be made very clear that IMPUTED Righteousness is not our Born from Above/ Born of God experience. Then THAT would be called IMPARTED Righteousness.

Justification is a legal transaction that must take place before a Supernatural consummation can occur. Therefore no one is Born of God first before being justified.

Even in marriage, the consummation never takes place before the vows.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/13


Samuelbb7 Good word, If your in need of imputing it's best to get it from God. His imputing gives life. God just keeps on giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving Oh did I say God just keeps on giving.
---Bryan on 10/19/13


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Imputed Righteousness means that the Righteousness earned by JESUS CHRIST as a perfect human who is also GOD can place his righteousness on us so that we stand before GOD as if we have never sinned.

It is also referred to as Justification. We stand justified before GOD by the blood and works of JESUS. Tied into this are Sanctification sometimes referred to as Sanctification where by the HOLY SPRIT we become the Saints we are declared to be by the imputed righteousness of JESUS.

Then praise LORD soon Glorification. We who believe in Free will believe in this also.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/18/13


"Accepting and believing" are of the same concept? Seriously? Maybe it is in the doctrine of freewill but most definitely not according to the Word of God, it isn't.

First and foremost "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29 - believing in Him is solely His work 100%! That is, from without.

Paul then puts the final nail debunking freewill, declaring "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

Does it finish off by saying anywhere you have to accept?
---christan on 10/18/13


Elder, I believe you left out a coma in your ending!
Seg out!
---TheSeg on 10/18/13


For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable, (there is none that doeth good, no, not one.)
And maybe this is wrong.
---TheSeg on 10/18/13


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Kathr, I asked seq, "Seg, do you even know what Imputed righteousness is? Do you know how people get it?
And, yes, it is MY/Kathr's imputed righteousness because it was given/imputed to me/us."

He answered me with, "I'm sorry elder, but you really just make me smile.
So try casting your pearls in some other direction, since I don't want to step on them."

Do you have any idea what he is trying to call himself or means by this statement?
Normally when we are casting pearls it is in only one direction.

Bye! Diner's ready, I gotta go pig out.....
---Elder on 10/18/13


christen, can you find anyone who was converted as Paul was after Jesus Resurrection? So to use that as some rule of thumb as to how God saved/saves His Elect, you fail to understand Paul, a Jew, WAS one of God's ELECT to begin with, just like the other 12-1 Apostles.

Paul was made an APOSTLE and shown things you will never see.

If God wanted to prove salvation is based solely on how Paul was struck down, then God would have struck down a Gentile, or Perhaps Calvin. Calvin had NO SUCH experience and neither have YOU!
Calvin to his death stated he was regenerated at his infant water baptism. And has no personal testimony of any encounter with Jesus Christ personally.

Paul's experience was exceptional, not the norm.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/13


True the Bible does not use the word accept. Instead it uses the word Believe. Same concept.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Jhn 6:2 ye believe on

Jhn 7:39
Jhn 9:35, 36 Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 17:20
Act 16:31 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Act 19:4
Rom 4:24
Phl 1:29
1Ti 1:16
1Jo 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jo 5:13
Luke8:13
Jhn 16:9
Rom 10:14
---Samuelbb7 on 10/18/13


What does "submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" mean?

It means submitting to God, so we are in His love which has our Father's personal leading while sharing intimately with Him. This love changes us to become how Jesus is pleasing to our Father. We are fragrant like Jesus (2 Corinthians 14-16), in this love's "incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4)

So, it means becoming pleasing to our Father (c: and being saved "from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18). So, we are with God, now, instead of slaves in Satan's power. In God's love (Romans 5:5) we share in His own righteousness > how only His love is right.
---willie_c: on 10/18/13


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christan* "As it is written, There is none righteous, :

As it is written, where is it written? Psalm 14 is what Paul is quoting! Besides Joseph is call righteous in scripture 'Because Joesph her husband is a righteous man "(MT 1:19)

christan * "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Jesus is giving you a choose "except you repent" what happens if you don't "you shall perish"!

christan * "Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Jesus told the rich man and us to follow him, w/o him it is impossible.
---Ruben on 10/18/13


"Accepting the salvation of God's work is not a work." Scott1

You should try reading how Paul was converted in Acts 9. No where in his conversion are we told he "accepted Christ as his savior" like your Arminian theology teaches. Neither can you find anywhere in the Scriptures of such conversion where anyone says, they "accept Christ as his savior".

So where did this form of salvation come from? Well, from the devil. Afterall, he told the woman, "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:5

Did God even say such a thing? See the similarity?
---christan on 10/18/13


I'm sorry elder, but you really just make me smile.
So try casting your pearls in some other direction, since I don't want to step on them.

At least Kathr speaks her heart, be it sometimes endlessly!
But somehow, I don't hear the sarcasm, I hear from you.
I'm sure you can understand this right.


Kathr, RCC, universalist??
No I'm not a card-carrying member of anything!
Although I feel religion in any form, is a step in the right direction.

Markv and Christan camp??
Yes! We call it The MCSC!
But it's not really a camp it's more like a day care facility.

I got a say you crack me up, the line about beating your head on the keyboard. OMG, I'm still laughing!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/18/13


"responsibility" to choosing for themselves to be saved or not, simply mocks at the death of Christ at Calvary.

Christian - Accepting the salvation of God's work is not a work.
---Scott1 on 10/18/13


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We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone. A saved person has been Born again by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT.

I agree that our Salvation comes from GOD alone. Arminan doctrine also agrees with that. When JESUS draws us and convicts us He does all the work. To choose to submit is not a work. It is a surrender to the LORD of Heaven. When we recognize that GOD is our sovereign and bow to his will that is not a work. We did not save ourselves. We just recognize what JESUS did for us and then choose to die to self and live to GOD. We crucify ourselves daily because of our love of GOD which he inspires in us and works in us.

Read Luke 17:10
---Samuelbb7 on 10/18/13


Elder, re: TheSegs last post... Now it looks as though, using Romans 16:25-27 as his jumping board that he can now lose his salvation? OR is he saying he's perfectly obedient in all things because that obedience is forced through him by God who could never be disobedient to Himself resulting in sinless perfection. Paul "beseeched" Christians to present THEMSELVES a living sacrifice unto God. Beseech means to plead with. Why on earth would Paul plead with a mindless robot Calvinist? JohnT Lisa and company hated it when I brought up Romans 12:1-2. Why, because their fear of truth exposed their ignorance.

You'll have to ponder that a moment. But it's hilarious the more TheSeg talks the more he digs himself in deeper and deeper.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/13


Seg, do you even know what Imputed righteousness is? Do you know how people get it?
And, yes, it is MY/Kathr's imputed righteousness because it was given/imputed to me/us.
---Elder on 10/17/13


Romans_6:25-27.... For the OBEDIENCE of faith!
It is an act of free will to obey God.
kathr

And of course you and those around you always obey God, right?
See, because I've never met a person who totally obeys God!

And those that say they do. I found them to be liars, thieves and hypocrites!
Now I don't know, maybe you and those around you are the exception to the rule.

When someone, anyone, talks about obedience (to and of) the faith!
And that same person knows and same things, I know!
But tell me, it of their-own free-will. I can't say I don't understand. Because I do!

But know this, if I ever obeyed God.
It's only by his grace that I did!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/18/13


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TheSeg, why did you bold everything but OBEDIENCE of FAITH and then make some kind of sarcastic remark about the verses you posted? Is it because they BOTHER you? Just like the other ones?

What again did Paul say that bothers you? Or that you feel you have the authority to tare apart?

Again, we always want to kill and destroy anything that makes us uncomfortable . We do that out of ignorance.

Bad company corrupts good morals TheSeg. If you have a problem with these verses, take it to The Lord . Please don't air your ignorance /arrogance of scripture in public.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/13


TheSeg, again re- reading your comment here, I can't help but bang my head over and over on my keyboard.

I see , so you are wholly embraced in the Markv and Christan camp
where they give you that right hand of fellowship, saying YES BRO, and so on. You did say you were RCC right? Or was that someone else. Or did you say you were a universalist?

Either way, I'm glad to see they understand you and agree with you. What you all do have in common is the ability to TWIST God's Word and use as a weapon of sarcasm against others, exposing your ignorant hearts before all the world. No one has to depose you, you just deposed yourself.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/13


Oh, I see, you mean where it says:
Rom_16:25 (Now to (him) that is of (power) to stablish you) according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

But it's not really him, establishing you, right? You pick.
And it's not really a commandment, because you get to choose, right.
And all the glory is not his, it's your IMPUTED righteousness, right.
It's ok kathr, breathe!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/17/13


The Seg, your comment is faulty. To submit unto "the righteousness of God" is to believe in Jesus who IS our righteousness, and the ONLY righteousness anyone can possibly have. Just the fact that you don't get it, and Christan agrees with your faulty statement show you both have no idea what IMPUTED righteousness is, not IMPARTED righteousness or self righteousness. The difference between them wanting to establish their own righteousness = self righteous. Don't you understand Galatians 2:20-21 at all? Especially verse 21?

Your comments gave away yours and Christan's total ignorance to the verses YOU posted. Thank you. It shows neither of you are called to teach or preach truth.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/13


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Look up every verse in scripture using the word submit or submitted. All have a second word that follows. That word, THEMSELVES, or YOURSELF. It means to OBEY.

Romans16:25-27.... For the OBEDIENCE of faith.

It is an act of free will to obey God. Wives are to submit to their husbands. It is her free will, out of obedience to do so. It cannot be forced. It HAS to come from her heart. No husband can force submission and call that love.

Romans 6 is steeped with submit/ yield etc that we are to do "even after " salvation leading to righteous holy living.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/13


The Seg, my dearest brother in Christ.

Yes, Yes, I saw that Arminian comment.

These hypocrites who say they have a "responsibility" to choosing for themselves to be saved or not, simply mocks at the death of Christ at Calvary. That in shedding His blood, it didn't cleanse the sinner unless they choose to believe in Him. Little do they realise that such an act, that of the Arminian theology is nothing but "filthy rags". They steal the glory from God and they know not. Nevertheless, God will hold them accountable.

"Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 16:17
---christan on 10/17/13


Hello, family, Rom-verse preceed' talks bout they had a "zeal" Perhaps "excited" Desire to submit to His will.later,you get side track .

and that zeal goes to do NOT the submission of what God wants.. "submit to God" His will be done(NOT mine) in Jesus name.
Pro.20:4 Pro.19:20 21 Pro.20:9
---Lidia4796 on 10/16/13


Christan, I asked because of:
//So here we see AGAIN the responsibility is with the person SUBMITTING THEMSELVES UNTO the Righteousness of God.//

If the responsibility is with the person, shouldn't some measure of this righteousness, be attributed to that person? For choosing to do right! The very fact that the person chose to do right, declares that person's righteousness. But when you read the whole thing, it makes sense doesn't it?

Rom_10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Even when you look up the word "submit", it says: Yield to the control of another!
Rom_3:10!
Peace Bro
---TheSeg on 10/16/13


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"submitted themselves" in layman's term is simply believing in God to what He has declared. And that is,

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

In short, God is Holy Holy Holy and we are sinful (and found wanting), period.

In the words of Christ Jesus, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." and just as He told His disciples when asked, "Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Do you believe?
---christan on 10/16/13


We are given the gift of Righteousness by Faith. But that gift changes us to life in righteousness.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works, and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Those who are Born Again work in love. It is part of our nature.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/16/13


I think if you read the entire chapter, you'd probably find the answer.

Don't forget, the Bible was NOT written in individual stand-alone verses.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/15/13


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