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Old Testament Saints Born Again

Were Old Testament saints born again?

If Jesus' death accomplished the removal of sins before He died, would OT sacrifices have been necessary?

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It was only RIGHT that Jesus told THE JEWS that they should aim for the strait GATE because their worship was centered around a GATE (Ezekiel 46:1), but our devotion/worship is to be a WALK with Jesus. When Saul was becoming "Paul", he was told to "go to a street called STRAIGHT" (make The Lord's path STRAIGHT and He will make your path STRAIGHT). It was right for Jesus to tell the JEWS that every authority was instituted by God, but for Spirit-filled Jesus worshipers ("True worshipers", John 4:23)...Jesus says "ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth has been given to ME". The Jews were serving JEHOVAH THE CREATOR (PARTIAL GOD), we are serving GOD IN COMPLETION (all 3 ministries/dispensations of God).
---faithforfaith on 11/8/13


The people in O.T. times were serving only PARTIAL GOD (Jehovah).

We serve COMPLETE God (what some call "TRINITY", same creator, different dispensations). Jesus said "Whom are you to judge the servant of another?" Romans 14:4....or do you think what Jesus said is irrelevant?. Leave O.T. worshipers to God, they are not our business...only God's business 1 Thess. 4:11 "aspire to live quietly and to mind your own affairs". Man has made a habit of violating the principles of God for 2,000 years, leave the O.T. worshipers to God.

Pay attention to what GOD says.
---faithforfaith on 11/8/13


//He meant it was good news for all of or both Houses of Israel.//
Where does he mention that?
---michael_e on 11/6/13

Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Rom_11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth, but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Israel was married to GOD. Jer 3:14,
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises,
---Trav on 11/8/13


\\We only have 66 books of scriptural writings\\

WRONG!

We have some 77, depending on how they are divided.

You might have a Bible with a great big hole in it, but Orthodox have the WHOLE Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/7/13


We only have 66 books of scriptural writings (missing 18 years of Jesus's life, 800 years between old/new testaments, etc.) Moses must have had much more communication with God than we know. Not only was Moses aware that he suffers for "THE CHRIST" (maybe didn't know His name would be JESUS?), but, in Exodus 3:14, Moses was told by Jehovah that the name "JEHOVAH" is now "I am who I am" (saying "I am" is like using a nickname...less respectful than the Almighty deserves). As much as we feel that it is OUR affair to judge their devotion, (it is between God and them, they did as they were told???), but the dispensation of COMPLETE GOD and ETERNAL God, ETERNAL Holy Spirit is the backdrop for OUR devotion.
---faithforfaith on 11/7/13




//He meant it was good news for all of or both Houses of Israel.//
Where does he mention that?
---michael_e on 11/6/13


Isaiahs meaning is clear, speaking to ISRAEL... (Ver. 8).
How could Paul have meant in I Cor. 15:3 that his preaching of the cross as good news for all, was fulfiling prophecy? He states it was a mystery...
---michael_e on 11/5/13

He meant it was good news for all of or both Houses of Israel.
The Northern House was divorced/put away and lost their married name. But freed in Widowhood. See Jer 3:14/Isa 54:1 and 62:4, Hosea 2:19-20.

Mar_4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 11/6/13


Hebrews 11:26 says that MOSES was aware he was to suffer for the "Christ" (the messiah). Jesus was DESTINED since before the foundation of the world but He did not become a reality ("made manifest") until He was on earth. JEHOVAH THE CREATOR told Moses on the mountain that He shall be known throughout all generations by His "FOREVER"/eternity name.
Isaiah 62:2, Revelation 2:17 and 3:12 "NEW NAME".

Jesus not only spilled blood at the cross, but also water. We are told that "in the last days I will..." Acts 2:17. God's Spirit does NOT agree with the BLOOD ONLY (Jesus came by WATER and blood)1 John 5:8?
The new devotion is by THE SPIRIT of God teaching OUR spirit/character/demeanor.
---faithforfaith on 11/5/13


Paul preached Christs death for ALL men. I Tim. 2:4-7, he says this truth was first committed to him: to be in due time and whereunto I am appointed. This message of Christs death for all, wasn't prophesied, it was committed to Paul.
Nowhere in OT prophecy does it say Christ would die for ALL, including Gentiles. Even Isa 53, the Hebrew prophet says: All we like sheep have gone astray , and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all (Ver.6) Isaiahs meaning is clear, speaking to ISRAEL, he says For the transgression of my people was He stricken (Ver. 8). How could Paul have meant in I Cor. 15:3 that his preaching of the cross as good news for all, was fulfiling prophecy? He states it was a mystery, a secret, first revealed to him.
---michael_e on 11/5/13


Here's one WAY over your head MarkV:


ROMANS 4: 9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

((meaning he had not yet received any SEAL FIRST before he believed))

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised, that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
---kathr4453 on 11/5/13




I just did Markv, I backed up by Scripture here over and over what God said.

Si like Shira, I don't give a rats behind what you think or believe.

The CHURCH was predestined to be conformed toHis Image through identification with Jesus in not only death and resurrection life, but by being made conformable to HIS DEATH. So expert, tell us THROUGH SCRIPTURE how OT saints were made conformable to HIS DEATH when he had not even died yet.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/13


Kathr, none of what you said is biblical. you say,
"The SOVEREIGNTY of God said no one was Born Again in the OT . The Sovereignty of God has given everyone FREE will! and the Sovereignty of God has enought blood to go around for everyone, and the SOVEREIGNTY of God said WHOSOEVER believes.
What you said cannot be backup with Scripture, just more religious talk, no substance, or not foundation. Just more words. You complain that the subjects talked about are hijacked, but the subject we talk about concerns every other subject.
"none seek after God" that is a fact. They are all heading to hell, and if God does not have mercy on them, they will continue to hell. Nothing you say can change the truth.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/13


Galatians in no way says Isaac was "Born Again" of the Spirit.
In Isaac will thy seed be called. The ONE and ONLY seed is Christ.
Those who believe one was BORN AGAIN or born from Above before Jesus death and resurrection has no idea what happen at the cross,making the new Birth even possible, being that New Birth aka the NEW CREATURE / NEW CREATION came/ is coming into existence as the result of Jesus resurrection.

Jesus said "I AM"the resurrection, I AM the LIFE.
You're Born again because Jesus rose from the dead. His "risen life" is the very life of your new birth. Galatians 2: 20-21, Colossians 3:1-4.

If you can't understand that, God help ya.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/13


"after the Spirit," here, is synonymous with "according to the promise" in the previous verse. It stands opposed to the phrase "after the flesh," and means that his FIRST birth was by the miraculous agency of God, see Romans 4. It was not in the ordinary course of events. Abraham was how old, and Sarah was past child bearing age. The FIRST birth , not SECOND, of Isaac was by God's supernatural intervention, upon Abraham's FAITH, that this child promised was ALWAYS to be Abraham and SARAH's child. You really need to read Genesis and Romans 4 and UNDERSTAND it to know the SEED which is Christ was not coming through the seed of a bond woman.


Our new birth is our SECOND BIRTH, not first.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/13


The LAST MAN Adam is that life giving spirit. The LAST man Adam is Jesus Christ, the MAN Christ Jesus.

Trey, To say your first birth like Isaac was your spiritual birth is to say Isaac was born sinless. Only Jesus was born Sinless upon His FIRST birth in that manger over 2000 years ago.

Isaac was born a sinner like everyone else. He had two HUMAN parents, who were born in sin.

That is NOT what Paul is teaching in Galatians. Your physical birth did not come by any supernatural intervention. The MIRACLE was with Sarah's barren womb. Yet we know Sarah is not Mary. Isaac was not by virgin birth. THEN he would be born of the SPIRIT.

Study to show yourself approved "rightly" dividing the word of truth trey.
---kathr453 on 11/5/13


Samuel, you say,
"One of the things I think is funny. That many who are saying that we are going to hell for not believe in Predestination" Who said that? When we explain the election of God, "predestination" before the foundation of the world, it's because all born of God should know of their election. Paul taught to believers
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in Word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance,.." (1 Thess. 4,5). We are doing the same thing. And how the Word came to us in power, and in the Holy Spirit. But to many others it didn't.
We cannot ignore so many passages on the election of God.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/13


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One of the things I think is funny. That many who are saying that we are going to hell for not believe in Predestination. Used to rage at Seventh day Adventists saying it is a sin to not keep Sabbath on Saturday.

While I believe that GOD alone knows when it becomes a sin to a person. Those here who support Calvinism know that those who disagree with them are lost.

Trey you are right it is quite plain that the saints in the OT were born again.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/4/13


I answered this question on 10/28/2013 with scriptural proof that Isaac was born again of the Spirit.

Galatians 4:29

It's black and white for those that have eyes to see.

May the Lord's blessing be upon each of you his children.
---trey on 11/4/13


This conversation was NOT about:

Calvinism
The sovereignty of God
The elect
Free will.

But it seems their main goal in life and on CN is to hijack every blog and change the subject to the only 4 thing "they know" all the while accusing everyone else of not bowing down and kissing their big toe.

The SOVEREIGNTY of God said no one was Born Again in the OT . The Sovereignty of God has given everyone FREE will! and the Sovereignty of God has enought blood to go around for everyone, and the SOVEREIGNTY of God said WHOSOEVER believes.

So no Markv, I do not have issues with the SOVEREIGNTY of God.

YOU do.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/13


I see nowhere Trey has suffered any wrath by my stating what I believe.

If believing God so loved the world is causing great wrath and pain and suffering to Markv Christan and now Trey! all I can say is those three are the most mentally I'll thin skinned, emotionally embalanced Calvinists on planet earth.

Am I suppose to be on some guilt trip now Markv. Are you trying to manipulate these blogs so people won't say what THEY believe, for fear of hurting your ittie bitttie little feelings?

Maybe you shouldn't be on CN. Gosh, Shira, who is continually suffering yours and Christan wrath has more huspa then the three of you wimpy men put together.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/13


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Kathr, every time someone speaks for our Sovereign God, you make enemies of them. Now Trey has also received your wrath. Anyone who speaks for God receives your wrath. I stopped praying for you. I can ask all I want, but it is God's decision in the end. I still answer you because I know many are reading who do not answer, and maybe, just maybe they will look up the passages and believe how they were saved, by the Grace of God.
He does not choose men because they are great, or because they are holy, but to make them holy. God does not choose men because they love Him or know that they will. He has first loved us. He doesn't choose men because they are smarter then someone else, but because of His love towards us the elect.
---Mark_V. on 11/3/13


Kathr, I pray the Lord convict you and that you repent of the way you treat others. I pray you would learn what it is to have Christian love for others.
---trey on 11/3/13


Don't you mean Christ love for only the elect....remember! you all teach Christ hates the non elect.

I believe Jesus died for ALL, and ALL have the ability of believing in Jesus for salvation.

I do in fact teach the LOVE of God to ALL sinners.

Now you are a double talker.

Don't pray for me Trey, in this area, it's you Markv and Christan who need OUR prayers in this area.

I really don't know why you hatefully attacked me, when I never addressed you to begin with, or even discussed what you have been on a drunken bender over.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/13


The SUBJECT here is, were OT saints Born Again, as those under the NC. So let's stay on the subject and not let our Calvinist agitators trash another thread.

I answered the question JamesL asked WITH scripture. Hebrews 10, and 2Corinthians 3.

Why Trey and Markv want to trash another thread is no mystery.


I love sharing, but I hate all this contention they bring disrupting every thread attacking people.

OT lived before the CROSS, we live after, or on the RESURRECTION side of the cross. If they don't understand the resurrection side of the CROSS, and that the new Covenant is RESURRECTION LIFE, not available under the old covenant of DEATH, they're not even in the ballpark of Christianity .
---kathr4453 on 11/3/13


Mark V, may I just say I consider myself to be in good company. You know I think highly of you, seeing you are one of the only ones on this sight with understanding of who God is, his sovereignty, his great love, and his ability to save wretched, sinful and totally depraved man!

Kathr, I pray the Lord convict you and that you repent of the way you treat others. I pray you would learn what it is to have Christian love for others.
---trey on 11/3/13


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Seeing Trey and Markv here mock the cross, I want nothing more to do with either.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/13


Kathr,
I guess we are now on to another subject.
Yes, all God's children are His elect, and all the elect shall be saved!
Yes, God has respect for his elect. He loves them with an everlasting love.
Ex2:25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.
Who is Israel - Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6.
Concerning Jacob and Esau, Paul starting at Romans 9:11 - explains Malachi 1:1-4.
Did Christ teach election? Yes! John 6:37-39, John 10:4, 27-29.

Kathr, do you even know what Christ meant when spoke about hating your mother and you father?
---trey on 11/2/13


MarkV, thanks! I have been praying for Kathr that the Lord would give her light on the scriptures. If nothing else I am hopeful that I might be able to help at least one lamb to understand better the word of God.

I have noticed that most simply blog and state what they think the bible says, a few brag that they have understanding that others don't and a small few give scripture to support their beliefs.
---trey on 11/2/13


Bro. Trey, you are trying to reason with kathr. Something that is impossible with her. For about five years now, I first tried respect, that didn't work, then tried debating Scripture by writing it down, that didn't work, I tried being kind, that did not work. So finally I gave up. Now I treat her as hostile. Because no matter the topic on Scripture she will argue at the expense of the Truth.
I can understand when someone doesn't know something and want to know. Many don't study the topics they are arguing about, all they do is talk with a lot of words, with no substance. All religious talk about being crucified with Christ. Yet there is no evidence of that when she talks to others.
Good luck. Oh, I forgot, with God there is no luck.
---Mark_V. on 11/2/13


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Trey,

Here is where I have to ask you to clarify some things first:

You said, "when God calls one of His children"

1) are all humans His Children? If you say no, that only the elect are his children BEFORE ever hearing the Gospel, based I suppose on Jacob and Esau, then please show us how Esau was not Isaac's child. You must establish a pattern that in Rebecca's womb, God said to Rebecca, The elder is Satan's child, and the Younger is one of my elect children.

Or are you saying God IS a respect of persons among all His Children.

And finally, have you obeyed God and HATE your Mother and Father?

Remember, this is God instruction to you, leaving you His example of his hating Esau.
---kathr4453 on 11/2/13


Luke 14:25-27

25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.


Now here we have Jesus saying all that Come to Him, must HATE father, mother, sister brother, even his own life, and does not bear his own cross CANNOT BE HIS disciple.

Please explain how you have done this, since it is "effectual".

Oh also know, "disciple" means a follower, or saved person.
---kathr4453 on 11/2/13


kathr, I'm sorry I made you upset! I believe you misunderstood what I was saying.
1st of all, I believe with all my heart that you are saved. If you were not saved you wouldn't be blogging. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit.
2. What I was trying to point out is that when our God calls one of his children such as the Apostle Paul, or you or me it is effectual. We respond positively!
3. I have read Galations multiple times and what you're saying is not there.
4. The reason you, the Apostle Paul, or myself bear fruit is because the Spirit of God has done a work in our heart. Without the Spirit of God we could not bear fruit.
5. You are correct! We bear fruit because we have been crucified with Christ!
---trey on 11/1/13


Hebrews 11:
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

What was the PROMISE?

Galatians 3
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith
The Promise came with the New Covenant of which Gentiles are beneficiaries.
2 Cor 3 proves no one was changed from Glory to Glory by the SPIRIT of the Lord under Moses.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/13


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There will be many people from Old Testament times who will spend eternity with God. God will judge each one of us according to HIS OWN criteria - not ours. He alone knows who truly worshipped Him and who did not and we need not worry about them because we know that God is just and fair.

Nothing is to be gained by questioning this.
---Rita_H on 11/1/13


Trey, I don't owe you any explication about my salvation. That is how it started. I gave my testimony and you and Markv questioned it and tore it down! Who are you to question anyone' relationship with Jesus Christ?
GO away.
I said we should never COMPARE our salvation experience. I'm not Paul either! I was not ELECT to be an apostle, and neither were you.

If you don't know where the verse is in Galatians , then please don't quote Galatians unless you read ALL verses before and after...hint hint.
You claimed you bore FRUIT so that you could believe. I disagree with your using those verses to prove your point. We bear FRUIT as a result of being crucified with Christ first, and that does not happen before we believe.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/13


Galatians 5:22-25

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts..

((Paul is reiterating again in Galatians EXACTLY what he said in Romans 6-8.
See this verse below, it it addressed to those ALREADY saved, just like Romans 8 is. )) ((but before you can walk in Romans 8 Romans 6 had to occur....being baptized into his death! being CRUCIFIED with Christ .

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

This is what scripture teaches and what I believe and testify to.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/13


Were Old Testament saints born again?
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Eze 36:28 ....
---jerry6593 on 10/28/13

Hmmmm.
Specifically speaking they are called Israel. The House of 11 AND Judah. Heb 8:8.

Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 11/1/13


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Kathr, first of all, please give me the verse you mentioned in Galations.

Second of all, it makes me laugh that you accuse me of being judgemental when you are so judgemental of me. It seems you think you have me all figured out yet you truly know nothing about me. You do make 1 good point. None of us should look down on another.

Third, since you mentioned it: the "all men" in Romans 12:3 are all the elect family of God. If Paul meant all mankind he would not have written:
2Thes3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Wicked men do not have faith. Again, faith is a fruit of the Spirit which manifests itself after we are born again.
---trey on 10/31/13


Oh for Pete sakes Trey! Galatians 5 referring to the Fruit of the Spirit also says this fruit comes to those who have crucified the flesh. Tell me how you did that Trey before believing?

PAY attention Trey , Abel demonstrated FAITH, by simply believing God, same as Abraham.

Next thing your going to tell me you were endowed with the Gifts of the Spirit, and spoke in tongues or were able to heal the sick before coming to Christ.

But again if you insist, Romans 12 state EVERY MAN is given a measure of faith. So don't think too highly of yourself.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/13


Pay attention Kathr, let us examine Father Abraham.

Rom4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So Father Abraham had faith.

Now where do we get faith?

The correct answer is:
Gal5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

For Abraham to have faith he had to have the Spirit of God and that requires the new birth.
---trey on 10/30/13


To make it easy for you, I will present you the steps to a godly life. We'll take a thief as an example.

1. A thief has been stealing for twenty years.
2. One day he hears that stealing is against one of God's laws.
3. Conflict begins within his soul and wants to learn more.
4. As he is learning about God, about the Ten Commandments and Jesus he begins to believe.
5. By now, Jesus is knocking at the door.
6. The thief has a choice: to open the door and allow Jesus to come in or to keep it locked to continue in his old ways.
7. He decides to open the door, repent of his sins, and become baptised.
8. His faith grows as he applies the ultimate commandment - Love, genuine love - of God and others.

Romans 10:17
---Steveng on 10/30/13


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How can they come willing to Christ? It is impossible, unless God makes them understand so they can seek after God. God has to give a sinner a heart to perceive. They cannot change their own hearts. It has to come from God.
MarkV//

What do you think the LAW is for, Mark? To show us we are sinners & point to Christ. To tell us we NEED a savior.
The LAW does what GOD commanded it to do. That is GOD telling all they have sinned & fallen short & need a savior.
You misuse scripture. So sad.
God has already told EVERYONE they are sinners through HIS LAW
---g on 10/30/13


Markv, maybe you don't understand the foundation of salvation, but all God did under the law including sacrifices pointed to Christ.

You assume they just practiced sacrifice just for the pure joy of killing animals. SICK!

THE LAW was the SCHOOLMASTER "to bring to Christ". get those words...to bring TO CHRIST.

Those who have been "taught of the Father come to Christ". What exactly do you think they were taught? Certainly not your version of salvation. Yours has no blood or CROSS and is not after the schoolmaster.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/13


Galatians 3:23-25

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


here it is... now even Paul declares this supernatural gift of faith given to rebirth you mark was not AVAILABLE in the OT. so again, your whole theory is wrong wrong wrong on many issues and points here.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/13


Kathr, You say,
" and now TODAY anyone can enter in and come BOLDLY to the throne of Grace to find Mercy." Not Scriptural. What is Scriptural is concerning the lost:
"There is none who understands, there is none who seek after God" (Rom. 3:11).
How can they come willing to Christ? It is impossible, unless God makes them understand so they can seek after God. God has to give a sinner a heart to perceive. They cannot change their own hearts. It has to come from God.
"For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed received it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?" (1 Cor. 4:7).
---Mark_V. on 10/30/13


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Except the blood of bulls and goats could NEVER make anyone PERFECT, or cleanse sin. If that were so, only one offering of the bulls and goats was needed, however, it was done yearly TO remind them of their sin! not wash it away.

God never joined himself to our old sin man,..that's why we are crucified with Christ so and justified by HIS blood. So that we can be partakers with Christ and he can NOW live in us. They could not ENTER. INTO anything personally. Only the high priest, but he too had to make an atonement for his sin before entering in.

Jesus, the SINLESS sacrifice did not have to atone for His sin first. and now TODAY anyone can enter in and come BOLDLY to the throne of Grace to find Mercy.

Thank you Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/13


Merrilee: "My comment would be, if someone seems to know it all then run the other way."

The people of God know it all by the wisdom and knowledge given by the Holy Ghost.

So, Merrilee, you would be one of many christians who will exchange gifts and celebrate the death of the two last prophets mentioned in Revelation.
---Steveng on 10/29/13


Christan and Trey, you are both correct. Individuals were saved by the Grace of God through faith in the Old Testament, and are being saved the same why in the New Testament. Old Testament believers were justified by faith as in the New Testament (Gal. 2:15-3:29) and are called saints (sanctified ones). God reveal His Grace and the Law throughout both the Old and New Testaments. Faith in God's provision of a sacrifice remains the basis for salvation throughout the Old and the New Testaments.
---Mark_V. on 10/29/13


Were Old Testament saints born again?
Gal4:29 But as then he (Ishmael) that was born after the flesh persecuted him (Isaac) that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Mt22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

For them to be alive and living with God they had to have been born again.

As far as OT sacrifices go:
Heb10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
---trey on 10/28/13


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Kathr,
good stuff on Hebrews 10.
I was a believer for several years before I was able to see beyond the imputed righteousness of Protestants, to the substantive righteousness of those in Christ


Bryan had a good post on 10/27/13 too. Good stuff
---James_L on 10/28/13


\\My comment would be, if someone seems to know it all then run the other way.\\

There will always be people who know more than you about something--maybe many things, Merilee and james.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/28/13


There is no difference between the OT and the NT save one - the OT is of a physical nature, the NT is of the spiritual nature. ALL of God's laws are the same. The ultimate commandment is Love, genuine love, in which all the laws and ordinances of the prophets hang upon.

In the OT, loving God was based upon the 613 laws of Moses - plus the Ten commandments. To love Him was to obey all the laws. In the NT, loving God is based upon obeying the ultimate commandment - to love, genuine love, as in the verb form. Most christians have the knowledge of love, but falls short on performing love, genuine love.
---Steveng on 10/28/13


\\ The Catholic's have moved from the truth of the Bible.\\

So have Protestants.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/28/13


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James L Hebrews 10 is one of the most outstanding chapters in the Bible. If anyone reads that and believes there is no difference between OT and New they are truly blind.

WE COME a NEW and LIVING WAY through the veil, that is to say His Flesh. No such thing was available in the OT.

The NEW WAY was not available in the OT.

---kathr4453 on 10/28/13


My comment would be, if someone seems to know it all then run the other way.I personally do not believe in the Roman Catholic Church as it is today. The Catholic's have moved from the truth of the Bible. We need a balanced belief system in and study of both the Old and New Testaments. The Old Testament is full of teachings on how to live and conduct ourselves, and always points us forward in the direction of Jesus as savior. The New Testament points us back to Jesus as the only way to Salvation and God. People in the Old Testament were covered by blood sacrifices each year while we are covered by the final sacrifice of the Lord Jesus. We cannot earn salvation or forgiveness, It is a free gift from God who loves us as his children.
---Merrilee on 10/28/13


\\he seems to know eveything about everything,im just wondering is he a catholic because im about to leave there church and there false teachings\\

I left Protestants and their (not there) false teachings when I became Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/28/13


\\he seems to know eveything about everything,im just wondering is he a catholic because im about to leave there church and there false teachings\\

I've said over and over that I'm ORTHODOX, not Roman Catholic.

If you had really read all my posts, as you say you have done, you would have known that, james.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/28/13


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mark v,im just trying to understand the man,wat is clunys beliefs?he seems to know eveything about everything,im just wondering is he a catholic because im about to leave there church and there false teachings,id be amazed if a smart man like him would believe in there nonsense!
---jamea3475 on 10/28/13


Old testament sacrifices pointed to JESUS. They reinforced the rule:Hbr 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.

They were saved by fatih through Grace looking unto the comming Christ.

The basis of their faith was love.

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself, for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/28/13


"That ultimate commandment is LOVE, genuine love. The love of God and others." steveng

Bottomline, if God doesn't love you, you ain't going to heaven regardless of how much you "show and demonstrate your love" to the world.
---christan on 10/27/13


RUBEN - 10/27 - Born of Water --------

Ephesians 6:28 - That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
---RICHARDC on 10/28/13


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James, you have to forgive Cluny for his conduct. On this site he is the judge of how someone spells words. If you are not educated like him, he gets upset. I believe the way you write is very understandable. I don't have his education and I can understand it. He is Eastern Orthodox, and goes by their traditions. He is an ok guy, you just have to be forgiving. He complains of spelling and he puts slang words like "airhead" and words I have never seen like "pet doctrines" I never heard of pet's having doctrines. I never heard of a human having air in their heads, maybe in oxygen in the blood cells.
---Mark_V. on 10/28/13


Were Old Testament saints born again?

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.





---jerry6593 on 10/28/13


\\cluny im just wondering wat ure beliefs are?i see u on every question im looking at!
---jamea3475 on 10/27/13\\

One of my beliefs is that if you write about spiritual matters, write in Standard English instead of text speech. If you write like a teenage airhead, it means you think like a teenage airhead.

And I don't respond to every question.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/13


"What does Jesus mean about being born with water??" Ruben

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

Obviously, you haven't experience verse 3 for you to understand verse 5.
---christan on 10/27/13


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Elijah & Enoch Have never tasted death. They were taken off the earth to heaven.
---Bryan on 10/27/13


cluny im just wondering wat ure beliefs are?i see u on every question im looking at!
---jamea3475 on 10/27/13


No matter how you look at it the ultimate commandment spoken of by Jesus is your ticket to eternal life. That ultimate commandment is LOVE, genuine love. The love of God and others.

Deuteronomy 5:10
Deuteronomy 6:5
Deuteronomy 7:9
Deuteronomy 30:6
Exodus 20:6
Leviticus 19:34
Psalm 31:23
Psalm 37:28
Psalm 40:16
Psalm 69:36
Psalm 91:14
Psalm 116:1
Psalm 119:97
Psalm 145:20
Proverbs 10:12
Isaiah 56:6
Jeremiah 31:3
Zephaniah 3:17
John 14:15
John 15:10
Romans 13:8
1 John 3:11
1 John 3:14
1 John 4:7
1 John 5:3
2 John 1:6
---Steveng on 10/27/13


"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" - conclusion, saints in the OT going to heaven were "born of the Spirit". There's no other teachings offered apart from this. Christan

Christan,

What does Jesus mean about being born with water??
---Ruben on 10/27/13


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Joh_11:21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, (if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.)
But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

Jesus saith unto her, (Thy brother shall rise again.)
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again (in the resurrection at the last day.)

Jesus said unto her, (I am the resurrection, and the life:) he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Some do, some dont!

Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? Lazarus, come forth.
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/27/13


Hebrews 10:4 - For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take a away sin,

Isaiah 63:11 - Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock ? where is he that Put His Holy Spirit in Him,

2 Kings 2:11 - And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talk, behold there appeared a chariot of fire,and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder , and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven,

Hebrews 11:5 - By Faith Enoch was translated that he should not see Death: and was not found, because God translated him: For before his translation he had the testimony, that he please God.
---RICHARDC on 10/27/13


OT saint when they died when to Abraham's bosom, Waiting for the Lamb of God so they could go to heaven. They could not go to heaven because their sins were not washed away. Their sins was only cover by sacrifices of animals. As for the Lamb of God washes away your sins, better Covenant. Thank you Jesus.
---Bryan on 10/27/13


1. All of God's saints are born of the Spirit, regardless of whether they were in the OT or NT or post. Jesus explicitly revealed, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" - conclusion, saints in the OT going to heaven were "born of the Spirit". There's no other teachings offered apart from this.

2. Sacrifices in the OT was "representative" of the perfect sacrifice of Christ. God concealed this in the OT and revealed it in the NT, through His Son Jesus Christ - who's the perfect lamb without blemish, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." 1 Peter 1:20
---christan on 10/26/13


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Well, Abraham was a man of faith, and Paul uses him as our example . . . an example for born-again people. And some number of born-again people consider King David to have been more real in his relationship with God, than we are. So, if they were not born-again . . . what does this say about us? I mean if they are legitimate examples for born-again people.

Mostly, James, we need how being born-again means God has made us become new persons in His love, instead of how we were in our sinning and selfish ways of loving > 2 Corinthians 5:17 > "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new."
---willie_c: on 10/26/13


james, there's a difference between what YOU mean by being born again (which is not one word in English, btw), and what the BIBLE means by being born again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/13


wats going on here?cluny are you bornagain?do u believe that u have to be bornagain?
---jamea3475 on 10/26/13


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