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Explain John 3-5

Explain John 3-5?

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John 3:5 Jesus speaking to a representative of Israel.
In the Bible, people literally followed Jesus across Israel. Today, people follow him sitting in pews. The Lord, seated in heavenly places,(Eph 1:20)isn't going anywhere at the moment, neither are those claiming to follow him. Paul, apostle to the Gentiles instructs us to follow him as he follows Christ. 1 Cor. 11:1
Its a good thing Paul's instructions are recorded and there are faithful men following his pattern (2 Tim 2:2, 2 Tim 3:16). The Bible contains Gods instructions. The Bible rightly divided contains Gods instructions for you.
Stop trying to follow Jesus' earthly ministry, and start studying the Bible rightly divided. Phil 3:17
---michael_e on 11/8/13


David Ephesians 2:4-9 stands upon what it says, explained in detail.

Regarding Matthew 7:21-29 Jesus speaks of those who have "no hearty love to Christ, nor true faith in him:" (Gill), those who build their houses upon sand v.26.

"It is necessary to our happiness that we believe in Christ, that we repent of sin, that we live a holy life, that we love one another." i.e. those forgiven will live as God commands, doing Gods good works, in faith. But it is not good works which saves them, but Gods grace, as per Ephesians 2:4-9.

Forgiveness is Gods gift: John 4:10, Acts 15:11, 1 Peter 1:5, Psalm 51:10.

As regards Paul, Peter called his writings Scripture 2 Peter 3:16.
---Warwick on 11/8/13


David, why do you not get it? There is no requirements for Salvation. It is all of grace. Christan put down the passage for you. If it is not of Grace then it is of works. You want it so much for salvation to be of works.
"For by Grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, "not of works" lest anyone should boast" When you say it is of works you are boasting on your own efforts. Not Scriptural what you say.
---Mark_V. on 11/8/13


"If what you believe Paul was saying, was what Paul was saying, show me another teacher in the bible who teaches obedience to God is not a requirement of salvation." Paul

Are you even suggesting that Paul was a liar? And what is there to even interpret with what Paul wrote? He said what he said through the workings of the Spirit in him, which simply means, it's from God. If you hate what he has written, you're not hating him but God.

You seem to forget that he was a "chosen vessel of God" to teach the Gentile nation about the grace of God which freewillers find hard to believe, let alone "accept".
---christan on 11/8/13


"And that's because what you're literally saying is, if you do not love God or your neighbor you can loose your salvation."
christan

1 John 3:10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Oops! There goes another "true blue works monger". The rather, David is in better company.
---Nana on 11/8/13




Christan
You need at least two to make a witness. If what you believe Paul was saying, was what Paul was saying, show me another teacher in the bible who teaches obedience to God is not a requirement of salvation.
---David on 11/8/13


Then verses 14,15 contradict what you have written showing Gentiles, "who do not have the law" can be saved without the law because "They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts,...while their ..."
---Warwick on 11/6/13

But, show David an all the scriptures of written laws on the gentiles (ethnos) hearts.
Like these as witness:
Jer 31:33 ..... covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, write it in their hearts, and will be their God, they shall be my people.
Psa 102:28 The children of thy servants shall continue, and their seed shall be established before thee.
Joh_8:17 It is also
---Trav on 11/8/13


"Do you, or do you not, believe that we must keep these two Laws to be saved?" David

Spoken like a true blue works monger. And that's because what you're literally saying is, if you do not love God or your neighbor you can loose your salvation. Can the carnal man even love God?

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6
---christan on 11/8/13


Samuel, when I said "We love Him because He first loved us" it is saying that we as believers love Him because He first loved us believers. If the passage in (1 John 4:19) was speaking of
God loving every single individual, then every single individual would love God. And as we know the unsaved have no love for Christ. (v.17) is speaking to those who are of God, "Love has been perfected among "us" in this that we may have boldness in the day of Judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world. "We" and "us" refers to believers.
---Mark_V. on 11/8/13


Matthew 22:35-39 does not say obedience to these commandments is necessary for our salvation

Warwick
Jesus does not say it there, but what about (Matthew 7:21)?
"Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father who is in Heaven"

As you can see it is not enough to call Jesus Lord, you must make him Lord by doing what he tells you to do.

Warwick, If what Paul wrote in (Ephesians 2:4-9) was written in the context as you believe it to be written, show me another witness besides Paul as to this teaching.
I give you Jesus Christ and Paul (Romans 2:6-7) as my two witnesses.
---David on 11/8/13




"We love Him because He first loved us." Every genuine believer has that love, and that love is Christ. Though you do not see it much around here.

---Mark_V. on 11/7/13

So true. He loves all people first and call on all human being to repent. He also sends the HOLY SPIRIT to convict the world of sin. JESUS died for the whole world. I have posted the verses that say these things over and over. Why are they false according to you?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/7/13


David, if we need to obey any such commandments to be saved then salvation is by works while the NT clearly says it is not,e.g. Ephesians 2:4-9.

Further Matthew 22:35-39 does not say obedience to these commandments is necessary for our salvation.
---Warwick on 11/7/13


David, all believers, through the Spirit, love the Lord with all of their hearts and love others. It is the work of God in the believers heart that accomplishes that work.
"For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you received it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?" (1 Cor. 4:7).
That is the reason He gets the glory on all things. Without the love of God in us, we would not love God in return, "We love Him because He first loved us." Every genuine believer has that love, and that love is Christ. Though you do not see it much around here.
---Mark_V. on 11/7/13


Warwick & Mark
Jesus gave two commandments in (Matthew 22: 35-39).
One was to Love God, and the other was to love your neighbor.

Do you, or do you not, believe that we must keep these two Laws to be saved?
---David on 11/7/13


Warwick, the same universal depravity was mention in the Ps. of David in Psalm 14 and the contemplation of David in 53. Paul also mentioned the same universal depravity of man in (Rom. 3: 10-20) so the depravity of fallen man has not changed. Paul spoke of the wrath of God how it come on the unrighteous, and how God gave them over to a debased mind.
The promises of God are the same all through Scripture, those who call on the name of the Lord by faith have eternal life. (Rom. 10:5-9) we are told about the word of faith, which was the same then as it is today. And only those drawn by God have that faith. Because only those who believe in their hearts already will be saved.
---Mark_V. on 11/7/13


Romans 1-2 are describing man from Adam to Moses. The law of Moses did not come into effect until Moses. Romans 5. We see several before the flood, (Romans 1-2) who showed faith, Abel, Noah, Enoch, and I'm sure countless others.

God's glory on earth at that time must have been awesome as Romans 1-2 state, leaving them WITHOUT excuse. Everywhere they looked, they say the Glory of God. No one was born depraved here, or anywhere for that matter either.

The moral law of right and wrong was written in their conscience. During THIS dispensation of time, of what God revealed to them, they will be judged by. Abel did not have the Law of Moses to know he was a sinner. Yet his sacrifice of blood acknowledged to God he was aware he was.
---kathr4453 on 11/7/13


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"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:19-23
---christan on 11/7/13


Mark, again I ask "were those of the Psalmists time given the promise of Romans 10:9?"
---Warwick on 11/6/13


cluny are you ashamed of your religion that you can't tell are want tell use how you get spiritual baptism? What I believe is what Jesus told use He said ask God who gives his gifts liberally to your favor it line to "Who So Ever" It counts for all three baptisms So come on cluny let here how you get there it.
---Bryan on 11/6/13


David, you wrote "As you can see, it is not possible to repent without the Law." However Romans 2:14,15 says otherwise, read it.

In verse 13 is not Paul writing of the fate of those who sin, whether under the law or not? That their sin will condemn them, because they have been given a conscience to know right from wrong?

Then verses 14,15 contradict what you have written showing Gentiles, "who do not have the law" can be saved without the law because "They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts,...while their conscience also bears witness,..."
---Warwick on 11/6/13


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Warwick
You used (Romans 2:14-15) and failed to mention the verse before it. You skipped over it because it refutes what you believe.
---David on 11/6/13

Romans is too both houses of Israel so he probably can't respond.
Contradictory if one doesn't realize that it both houses of Israel spoken to in Romans.
Judah not divorced still retained the married name of Israel. The Northern house of ten, were divorced/put away had lost their married name....but is still the "seeds" of Israel. Although "not a people" anymore.
Prophets mentioned in Rom 10:18-21 Mose Dut 32:21 and Isaiah confirm in Isa 65. Also Hosea 2:23 specifically.
---Trav on 11/6/13


David, there is no contradiction on the words of Paul. You just did not understand that (Rom. 2:11-16) is talking about those without Christ, those under the Law. Only the doers of the Law are justified, but there is none who can keep all the Laws. If they could they would be justified. Those are the people Paul talked about when he said,
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do the things which are not fitting" (Rom. 1:28). Those people without Christ, under the Law, which judges them guilty.
But (Romans 6:14) where Paul says, "You are not under the law??" here he makes a distinction between the two. Those not under the Law, but in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 11/6/13


\\So quit condemning other believe who don't follow your religion.\\

Will you do the same thing, namely quit condemning those who don't follow YOUR religion?

\\ And you still haven't explain how you get to your spiritual baptism yet.\\

I told you how to find out.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/6/13


Mark, my first line should read: were those of the Psalmists time given the promise of Romans 10:9?
---Warwick on 11/5/13


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Warwick
You used (Romans 2:14-15) and failed to mention the verse before it. You skipped over it because it refutes what you believe.

(Romans 2:13) says,
For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Why this apparent contradiction from (Romans 6:14) where Paul says, "You are not under the law??

In (Romans 2:13-15) he writes about the Law of Christ, and in (Romans 6:14) he is speaking about the Law of Moses.
If I am wrong, why does what you say make Paul contradict himself in these two passages?
---David on 11/6/13


Warwick, concerning the covenants, under law God demands righteousness. Under Grace He bestows righteousness. (Rom. 3:21-24: 8:3,4: Gal. 2:16: Phil 3:9). Grace is the manifestation of God's love and mercy toward sinful men (2 Cor. 8:9). Concerning repentance, men repent because repentance for salvation is granted by God.
"God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will" (2 Tim. 2:25,26).
In Acts 11:18)
"When they heard these things they became silent and they glorified God, saying, Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life"
---Mark_V. on 11/6/13


Sorry cluny, following your Orthodox is your religion. So quit condemning other believe who don't follow your religion. And you still haven't explain how you get to your spiritual baptism yet.
---Bryan on 11/6/13


Mark, could those of the Psalmists time given the promise of Romans 10:9? No man is better but "..Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises." Hebrews 8:6. 2 Peter 3:9 says the Lord "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Repentance comes from the Greek metanoia meaning repentance, change of mind. This is man's change of mind, not Gods as is repentance. This shows all men who accept their helpless, sinful state can turn to the Lord and receive forgiveness. It is relevant to remember that "all" in the above Scripture means just that -all/everyone.
---Warwick on 11/5/13


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Correct we do not seek after GOD. GOD came after us. JESUS descended from Heaven GOD came to Abraham. GOD has pursued us. The HOLY SPIRIT is referred to some as the Hound of Heaven. Who does the HOLY SPIRIT convict of sin?


Jhn 16:7,8

Nevertheless I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
---Samuelbb7 on 11/5/13


Acts 17:30-31


30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained, whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.


Absolutely Warwick is correct here. Just more scripture over MarkV's head.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/13


--It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

That is, the Holy Bible is a spiritual in its contents. Well, Christ declared so. --- ---christan on 11/5/13


christan totally missed the point. Peter tells us we are BORN AGAIN "BY THE WORD OF GOD", Jesus is "THE WORD of God". He's not a Bible. The Bible does not spiritually quicken/ Born Again you, the WORD of God who IS Jesus Christ does.

And yea "Free Gift" is redundant even in Spiritual language. The term FREE GIFT is not used in Scripture because God is not Stupid. He knows any GIFT is free, and since it is FREE it can be rejected.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/13


Warwick, you say,
"Mark, in Romans 3: 11-18 Paul quotes Psalms about how it was then. But today for all unsaved it is different "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.""
(Rom. 3:11-18) doesn't say that at all. In (V. 9) before (v.10-18) it says,
"What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin" Paul mentions there is no difference for them as for us. We are never told that fallen man received the ability to seek after God. Nowhere. Then and now, there is none who understands, there is none who seek after God.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/13


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David, in answer to your question consider: ".... They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, .... Romans 2:14,15.
---Warwick on 11/4/13

This is a complete misunderstanding/misapplication of scripture.
Witness scriptures are Jer 31:33/Heb 8:10. God wrote the law in Divorced House of Israels hearts.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
Isa_51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law, fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
---Trav on 11/5/13


David, in answer to your question consider: "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them." Romans 2:14,15.

Consider also Romans 1:20 "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. The path of salvation has begun for many after they realized God is Creator of it all, and without the law.
---Warwick on 11/4/13


"in English "free Gift"is a redundancy as a gift, by definition is free. In reality to who (correctly whom)? Anyone who comprehends English. " Warwick

Your above quote pertains to those who use the dictionary in the worldly manner. As Paul says, "And be not conformed to this world"

Furthermore, does the dictionary say what Christ declared or have any explanation to this? "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

That is, the Holy Bible is a spiritual in its contents. Well, Christ declared so. What does your dictionary say about this?
---christan on 11/5/13


Mark, in Romans 3: 11-18 Paul quotes Psalms about how it was then. But today for all unsaved it is different "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9. Also Romans 1:20 "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."

The things Created, render man excuseless, and their God-given conscience (Romans 2:15) convicts them of sin.

This is why so many nonBelievers come to faith when they see the impossibility of evolution.
---Warwick on 11/5/13


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1 Kings 11:6 "And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father."
Each men have their own disposition.

David chose otherwise, 1 Kings 15:5 "Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.", and God regarded his loyalty.

God grants man the ability to forego his lower instincts:

2 Timothy 2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
---Nana on 11/5/13


\\triple immersion explain if it is` not a secret. Yes I have heard of you way Orthodox religion. I assume nothing so explain triple immersion.
---Bryan on 11/4/13\\

Triple immersion: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Also signifying the three days.

This is one of the things that post Reformation Christians have forgotten. Even Roman Catholics, who normally baptize by pouring (NOT sprinkling), use three separate pouring.

But this is not the same thing as Holy Spirit baptism, Bryan.

Every one of your posts show how little you actually know about things.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/13


triple immersion explain if it is` not a secret. Yes I have heard of you way Orthodox religion. I assume nothing so explain triple immersion.
---Bryan on 11/4/13


Warwick
Here is something I pray you will consider: How can you repent unless you turn from sin? How can you turn from sin unless you keep the Law, when sin is the trespassing of the Law?
(1 John 3:4) KJV
Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

As you can see, it is not possible to repent without the Law.

According to Paul, we are not rewarded for the evil we do not do, our rewards come from the good God commands us to do for others.
(Romans 2:6-7)NKJV
God, who will render to each one according to his deeds Eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality,
---David on 11/4/13


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Warwick, what you fail to understand that the unsaved do not call on the name of the Lord, "There is none who seek after God" (Rom. 3:11) and don't confess with their mouths. They are fallen and cannot of themselves change their own condition. In order for them to repent they need the
the Spirit to change their hearts, in order for them to perceive the truth, believe by faith, they are sinners in need of a Savior. Only God can change their hearts. All, I mean all, descendants of Adam are on the way to hell condemned already. Our Holy Judge has judged all already. Only those God decides to have mercy on will be saved. And those God changes, will confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord, and believe it in their hearts.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/13


\\Then cluny tell us of your Orthodox WAYS of Spirit baptism.
---Bryan on 11/3/13\\

Go to an Orthodox Church and find out.

Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it's a secret. You're not as well informed as you think you are.

You probably had never heard of the Orthodox Church until I mentioned her here. And the fact you thought we merely "flicked water" (your words) instead of baptizing by triple immersion shows your abysmal ignorance of Orthodoxy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/13


Markv, Christ is who was CHOSEN. When you understand that, you may understand a lot of things you have been given wrong words with definitions to.

The fact that I am IN the CHOSEN ONE is more than enough for me.

It does appear cults like misapplying those words, and we have how many cults now believing THEY are the CHOSEN ones.

Markv, if I told you what that really meant, you would accuse me of some sort of wrath. So here my wrath:

Israel, being God's CHOSEN vessels on earth did not guarantee their individual salvation. Why, because they took CHOSEN as something personal, became arrogant and self exalting having no need for Jesus Christ in the end when He came TO HIS OWN. Go figure.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/13


Christian, in English "free Gift"is a redundancy as a gift, by definition is free. In reality to who (correctly whom)? Anyone who comprehends English.

Man does choose-Romans 10:9,10,13 "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Those who confess (as this chapter says) have heard the message and believed, and acted, thankfully accepting the gift.

Matthew 23:37 shows the gift can be refused
---Warwick on 11/3/13


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Then cluny tell us of your Orthodox WAYS of Spirit baptism.
---Bryan on 11/3/13


Warwick, in reality to who? The fallen man or God Almighty are you referring to? Obviously not the latter. Do bear in mind what God declared, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord." Isaiah 55:8

Salvation (aka eternal life in Christ) is a very precious "gift". There's no choosing from the man. Rather it's God who chooses whom He wants to dispense it to. The creature has no say!

And where does Ephesians 2:8-10 says ""salvation is a free gift which man is free to reject"? Where? You see and say what's not even written. And you accuse others of playing "word games"? Seriously?
---christan on 11/3/13


Kathr, you do a lot of talking and you lie a whole lot. Now you say,
" But it would seem the first 1500 years there are no elect. No scripture in Acts preaches or teaches your doctrine of election." What? Don't you even understand that the elect are the chosen vessels God? You said you were saved, were you not chosen by God? or did you become an elect out of your own free will? Such rubbish you speak. The RCC nor Augustine write the Bible, all they did was accepted what was already Truth and put it together.
The Election of God is mentioned all throughout Scripture. You just reject it. As you do the rest of Scripture. Maybe because you are already carrying your cross, you don't need to believe.
---Mark_V. on 11/3/13


David, my comments to Christan were in response to his asking "where Scripture says salvation is a free gift which man is free to reject".

I agree that worldly gifts are generally given to those who have pleased us. And also to those we would like to please us. However God's gift/s are given from His goodness and we can do nothing to earn them. Ephesians 2:8 sums it up perfectly "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God,"

I think our repenting is the key that releases God's gift us rather than it being a work done to earn the gift. If it was a 'work then this goes against verse 9.
---Warwick on 11/3/13


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Acts 7:50-52

50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One, of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Again, Acts totally refutes irresistible grace, as it even states The Holy Spirit who spoke through the prophets about the coming of the Just One AKA the Messiah was foretold.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/13


Warwick
It's true that a gift is free, but the one giving the gift, gifts those who are in their favor.
And those in the favor of the gift giver, must have done something to gain that favor.

I gift many people who throughout the year have been of service to me.
These gifts are not given as earned wages, they are given because they are in my favor, and they are in my favor because of their service to me.

The bible clearly says in (Acts 2:38) that the Holy Spirit is given as a gift.
But notice we are required to "Repent and be baptized" to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
When we repent and are baptized, we gain the favor of God, and because of his favor he gives us this gift.
---David on 11/3/13


Christan, word games again!

You ask where Scripture says "salvation is a free gift which man is free to reject". In reality "free gift" is a redundancy as a gift is by nature freely given coming without compulsion, otherwise it is not a gift!

That salvation is a gift is explained clearly in John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8, Romans 5:15-21, and 6:23.

Can it be refused? Certainly-"How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" Matthew 23:37.

The Lord is "patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." 2 Peter 3:9 Both show the gift can be refused.
---Warwick on 11/3/13


\\Is there something secret he told your religion he did not tell the rest of us?
---Bryan on 11/2/13\\

Nothing secret in Orthodoxy, Bryan.

But there are things that God told the original Church that sects like yours reject.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/13


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Kathr, I do not believe for one second that I am above my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I know myself to be a sinner. I also know that if I am saved it is soley by the grace of an almighty God apart from my works.

Here in time I do believe in good works, not to get me to heaven, but because of what the Lord has done for me. I also believe that God's children are sometimes chastized when they do not do good works. Heb 12:6.
---trey on 11/2/13


What is the Bible way cluny for spiritual baptism? I though Jesus said to believer you ask God for The Holy Spirit and he will give it to you. Is there something secret he told your religion he did not tell the rest of us?
---Bryan on 11/2/13


Curiously, how does one choose to baptise others let alone themselves in the Holy Spirit? Isn't the Spirit the third person of the triune God? Isn't that the will of the God that a sinner be born of His Spirit?

Isn't water baptism symbolic of one who's already saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ? Being baptised in water doesn't save a soul or haven't you heard that only through faith in Christ one is saved?

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Romans 1:16,17
---christan on 11/2/13


\\Jesus never condoned the water baptism.\\

Yes, He did. He commanded it.

\\Unfortunately, most christians today stop at the water baptism, the washing away your sins, never going for the Spirit baptism.\\

Speak for yourself, Steveng. Orthodox have ALWAYS had Spirit baptism, but the BIBLE way, not the Protestant way.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/2/13


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James
Being born of water refers to baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe the receiving of the Holy Spirit is the same as being born of the Holy Spirit.

This can not be true, because after someone receives the gift of the Holy Spirit they continue to sin, and (1 John 3:9) says those born of God can not sin.

Epilog:
We sin because sin lives in us.
If sin has died in us we will not sin, because that which is dead, doesn't exhibit life. Sin, is our sign that sin lives in us.
Therefore, sin is our sign to know if we have or have not been born of God.
---David on 11/2/13


Keeping it all in context, I believe John 3:6 explains John 3:5.
---trey on 11/1/13


Our security is in Christ, Who is eternal.

This is NOT the same thing as seeking our security in our own act of faith, or a theory about how He saves us.

These are NOT the same things, though many people confuse them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/1/13


There is one minor word everyone seems to miss, :...born of water AND the Spirit.

Jesus never baptised anyone, the apostles baptised with water throughout the NT for the remission of sins. Jesus never condoned the water baptism. But one must also be born of the Spirit. That's where being born again comes in.

Unfortunately, most christians today stop at the water baptism, the washing away your sins, never going for the Spirit baptism.
---Steveng on 11/2/13


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John 3:5 > "Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"

Water and air are basic things needed for life. "Spirit" can be a word that means your life breath . . . air that you breath. So, spiritually, Jesus can mean how our Father gives us life so then we can love Him and love Jesus our Groom and love any and all people.

Jesus is the Light of the world. Light comes to a plant and effects it so it then seeks the light. But a plant with unhealthy roots will dry in that light and become dead and hard.
---willie_c: on 11/1/13


The Assemblies of God along with the RCC and many others do not believe the eternal security of the Believer. Therefore, it doesn't matter what your belief is on the Triune God, if you don't believe Jesus can KEEP you and you don't believe you are COMPLETE in Him. In making such statements you really don't believe He's GOD at all no matter what your beliefs are on a man made doctrine scripture never elaborates on.

Now I know MarkV has much double talk here who also does not believe the scriptures that we are COMPLETE in Him, yet he wants us to believe he has seen the Trinity personally and knows exactly that which was decided as doctrine in 325AD by the heretic Constantine is fact.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/13


\\ Our Eastern brethren share this belief with us. Who is US?? Ans: The RCC. \\

But it's also held by creedal Protestants, including, oddly enough, the Assemblies of God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/1/13


The RCC did not INVENT the doctrine of the Trinity. What they invented was that Jesus was eternally begotten or eternally GENERATED. No scripture even remotely suggests or states words like, ETERNAL SON, ETERNALLY "generated", or ETERNALLY begotten. To make such statements is to say the Trinity is three separate Gods, also being heresy.

all through out scripture the second person of the Trinity is said to be THE WORD, the LOGOS. John continued to call Him the WORD even to the end of Revelation.

To believe the WORD is Jesus Christ in no way denies the Deity of Christ or that He is GOD. The Word was WITH God and the Word IS/WAS God.

Begotten/generated means birthed. The Son was not BIRTHED in Eternity past.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/13


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Quote The doctrine of the Eternal Son of God is enshrined in the Nicene Creed: "I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father". This is the faith of our Fathers, the true Christian Faith. Our Eastern brethren share this belief with us. Who is US?? Ans: The RCC.
Imagine calling the Nicene Creed "heresy"!
Constantine - The Nicene Creed and its Aftermath
In 325 AD, the year of the Nicene Creed, the Roman Emperor Constantine took the step that forever changed Christianity, he convened the first universal council of the church at Nicaea in Asia Minor. The Council was convened to resolve a theological controversy over the nature of God and Christ. Great article.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/13


no He didn't Markv, or Calvin or Augustine's help either. But it would seem the first 1500 years there are no elect. No scripture in Acts preaches or teaches your doctrine of election. Your false doctrine began with Augustine the RCC Gnostic who was involved in sitting under all sorts of false teachers scripture warns against.

Calvin having no personal testimony of his own, hopped on Augustine the RCC's coat tails.

I don't hate you at all Mark, only what you promote here:
A CROSSLESS Christ and YOUR lack of identification with Christ Crucified. Galatians 2:20-21, Romans 6
---kathr4453 on 11/1/13


Kathr, you must hate me so much for now you say,
"You are lost until you agree with Markv. Once you have agreed with Mark, WALLA you instantly become one of the elect." No Kathr, when God chose the elect, He didn't need my help. He did the choosing all by Himself before the foundation of the world. I was not even born yet. You do not have to believe the Truth of the
Word of God.
Then say: "THIS is why he is here on line, hoping to save you by you agreeing with him." Again, I save no one. God does. I'm here to discuss the Truth with other believers, and share with them what we love so much. And to defend the faith of the gospel of Jesus Christ, against heretics like you who claim Jesus became a Son.
---Mark_V. on 11/1/13


John 3:5

English Standard Version (ESV)

5 "Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."


To be born of "water" is to be born a physical human being into the world. To be born of the "Spirit" is to be born again/saved after choosing to believe in Jesus Christ & then being filled (regenerated) by God the Holy Spirit.
---Leon on 10/31/13


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You are lost until you agree with Markv. Once you have agreed with Mark, WALLA you instantly become one of the elect. This is how it works. THIS is why he is here on line, hoping to save you by you agreeing with him.

He certainly couldn't be here bragging and sticking his tongue out at everyone showing how he is saved and you are lost.

He claims he is defending the Sovereignty of God. Where are we instructed to defend the sovereignty of God? I've never once heard Paul or Peter of John or James say this is what we are called to do.

These people defend the sovereignty of God like the RCC defended the RCC and pope. They did it through a sword, burning and beheadings until you agreed with them.

Nothing has changed.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/13


Bryan, good story until you said,
" when we expect Jesus we become spiritually born again.". I know you meant accept Jesus, how is that possible since no one lost seeks after God?

"born of water and Spirit" refers not to literal water, but to the need for "cleansing" read (Eze. 36:24-27). When water is used figuratively in the Old Testament, it habitually refers to renewal or spiritual cleansing, especially when used in conjunction with "Spirit" read (Num. 19:17: Ps. 51:9: Is. 32:15: 44:3-5: 55: 1-3). Jesus was referencing to the spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God, (Eph. 5:26: Titus 3:5).
---Mark_V. on 10/31/13


thats the exact same way brian that i see it,was just checking to see if it was just me who believed it,Blogger9211 john chapter 3 verse 5,cluny are you born of the spirit?
---jamea3475 on 10/31/13


Look at what was said by Jesus You must be born of water and spirit. It is not water baptism as some supposes. I don't think Jesus would have been so vague. He would have said you must be water baptist, and born again spiritually. He said born of water and born of spirit. We come into the world wet and naked. But spiritually dead, when we expect Jesus we become spiritually born again. Without those two things you want make heaven. When you come into this world legally you come though water. If you need to know how that works, look it up on the internet, it's pretty clear water breaks then your born though it.
---bryan on 10/30/13


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If you mean John 3, verse 5, in America this is usually written as John 3:5.

And anciently this was understood to mean WATER BAPTISM.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/30/13


Do you mean John Chapters 3 through 5 or John Chapter 3 verse 5?. John Chapters 3 through 5 can't be covered in 125 words John 3 verse should be expressed as John 3:5
---Blogger9211 on 10/30/13


Everybody who is born on the earth came though water, Everybody who is going to heaven is born of spirit , born again.
---bryan on 10/30/13


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