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Cohabiting Middle-Aged Couple

Please answer with scripture. A cohabiting middle-aged couple (on their own admission - not speculation) were recently refused communion in their own church, now that the pastor knows the truth. Some say the pastor was wrong to do that 'because they are old enough to know their own minds'. You say ??

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 ---Rita_H on 11/2/13
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\\ I searched Strongs Concordance,and Greek Lexicon "If a man" is 1536 it means,if any,if a man, thing,from any,ought,whether any,whosoever. \\

Actually, in Greek NT neither the word ANIR (gender specific male) nor ANTHROPOS (any human being) appears.

And as I've often said, Strong's lexica are not good tools for serious study.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/6/14

Hello,Yes! In the Spanish, church we must give in honor both are share in the ministry such as Sis.Karen does even counsel etc, we are to give respect and call her Pastora.

however, If she is stay home wife does not concern herself as get unvolved, many times she will NOT be addressed as Pastora, but the Pastor will get someone else .male coPastor or female.His wife is called " Sister.."

I did not make the rules. It is proper church etiquette,far as I know.I been around long time. Thanks! To God...
---Lidia4796 on 11/13/13

Shira I love you too dear friend,I do remember that,but just one little point if they had translated it to "whosoever" they wouldn't have said the husband of one wife but would have translated the whole verse to agree with the change. Friendship means more to me too and its ok if we don't agree,it doesn't bother me one little bit or change my mind or feelings about you. I think you are a very dedicated Christian Lady with a caring heart. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 11/13/13

Darlene, love you friend but New Testament tells us a bishop is the husband of one wife. I'm gonna let this one go because your friendship means more to me that disagreement.
---shira4368 on 11/12/13

An added note on women ministers,1 Timothy 3:1 "if a man" desire the office of a bishop-. In order to understand woman's role I searched Strongs Concordance,and Greek Lexicon "If a man" is 1536 it means,if any,if a man, thing,from any,ought,whether any,whosoever. The King James Bible was translated in a time women were only property and second rate to men,therefore it was translated by men to mean men. Whosoever means anyone,male or female. I did search why God blessed and anointed women ministers just like men,and in that I found part of my answer. I'm not trying to change anyones mind but through Jesus the chains of bondage fell off of women and it is man who tries to put them back. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 11/12/13

I've proven you wrong many times, but your eyes are STILL not open Cluny

For example?
---David on 11/12/13

Shira I wouldn't expect or want you to change,you're just fine with me the why you are. Some of my dearest friends were Baptist and we shared many a blessed time in Bible study and discussion without any anger or hurt so know dear friend I accept people how they are and let God do any changing He wants done. Thats not to say I won't share Bible verses which reflect what I see. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 11/11/13

Darlene, I respect you very much and consider you a friend but God did not call women to preach or pastor. Pastors are to be the husband of one wife not the wife of one wife. I have a friend who swears by Joyce Meyer but she is not God called but self called. I've been told I'm too opinionated but I'm just telling what scripture says. Guess I'm too old to change now.
---shira4368 on 11/11/13

Karen D just for information sake those were not women pastors in modern time,it was during the 1930s and 1940s. The Bible verses which verify that are Galatians 3:26-28 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,for all of you who were baptized into Christ,have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek,slave nor free,male nor female,for you are all one in Christ Jesus. It is only the husband who is the head of the wife not all men over all women. Thus if a wife has a husband in agreement for her to pastor she is doing nothing against the Word.
---Darlene_1 on 11/11/13

My calling is that of a pastor's wife. I can find no scriptures that support a woman being a pastor. And I also find no scripture that says the woman is the head of the household. But, in today's world everything is turned around. The few couples I have met who were living together rather than getting married and using finances for a reason were just not wanting to get married in the long run. We have offered to do the entire wedding and pay marriage license expenses to couples, but most refuse because they don't care what God thinks about their sin.
---KarenD on 11/11/13

\\Do you know how to humble those who see's themselves as wise? Prove them wrong.\\

Where did you get that idea, David?

I've proven you wrong many times, but your eyes are STILL not open.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/13

Shira,I want to share a little of my view of women pastors. It's like two different jars shaped differently but they are filled with the same thing. That is the same with men and women in Christ we all receive the same salvation,the same Holy Spirit,God gives both the same Gifts of the Spirit and power of God therefore we are all equipped for our service to God. When God calls a woman to minister they get people just as saved with the Word,just as baptised,and all other things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. I was saved and baptised in two different women Pastors churches,there was another sister who was a Pastor and God moved in those churches just like He does when the Pastor is a man. Blessings,call me when you get here.
---Darlene_1 on 11/11/13

All the folks on here believe in something that someone else will disagree with. Those who see themselves as wise, are those who will become angry.

Do you know how to humble those who see's themselves as wise? Prove them wrong.
How do you think that wise man will feel, when one they see as a fool has shown them they are wrong?

They will feel foolish, and then you have done them some good, because now their ears will be open to that which they were once closed.
---David on 11/11/13

Mark V - Thank you very much again and you echo my thoughts exactly regarding being saved OR NOT !

Darlene - yes this business of money plays havoc with people's lives and it's so sad but God's laws come before man's and He honours His own. Better to have less money and be in God's will but a change in the law would help in some cases. The case I mentioned is slightly different though. Every blessing to you.
---Rita_H on 11/10/13

Sis. Rita, I totally agree with you. Something is very wrong around here. I have a clue, many are not saved period. A lot of religious talk and no Scripture to back up what they say. It happens in many churches, too much talk and not one passage to back up what they say. As Karen said also, sin is sin. If someone is wrong in what they are doing, we should go to them and let them know.
---Mark_V. on 11/10/13

Karen, wow I'm glad I ask that question. I was worried here for a moment. I know Lidia is Spanish. She is one of the sweetest people on christianet. I know I will get backlash but for some reason I can't get passed the biblical reason for a woman pastor. Thanks karen
---shira4368 on 11/10/13

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Shira...My husband is the pastor. In the Spanish community they often refer to the pastor's wife as pastora. Lidia is Spanish.
---KarenD on 11/9/13

The Bible says that the reason so many are sick among us is because they took the bread,Christs body and wine,Christs blood,unworthy. I think the Pastor was right,sin is sin and giving consent to each other to participate in it makes it no less sin.
---Darlene_1 on 11/9/13

Rita_H I don't think the question is gossip. It addresses a very real and sad fact of the age we live in,older couples are prevented from marrying because they will have their income reduced. That in and of itself is wrong because for older couples to have companionship they must sin against God. We Americans should be fighting such a law but instead most of us are silent for lack of knowledge in knowing how to fight. I am very sad for all of them,its a dirty shame that folks who need someone in their lives are forced to go to these lengths to have someone.Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 11/9/13

David on 3.11.13 (see my posting below of that date) I stated that one of my posts had not gone through for some reason. The missing post was about the very verse you quote now.

I am so glad that, at last, the verse is shown here.

Most of our comments here should be backed up by scripture and that is what I asked for here. Sadly, very few made any attempt to do so but felt it O.K. to vilify me and accused me of being judgemental.

Something is lacking on this site and it's called LOVE.
---Rita_H on 11/9/13

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Karen, are you a woman pastor?
---shira4368 on 11/9/13

Hello,Pastora KarenD. You know, I got lot respect for you,as well,anyone
Sister, remember the woman they caught in the act, Jesus never let her be embarrass...he was firm,yet wise
he said to her, woman where are your accusers? ..No,there are none Lord. He say to her,go and sin no more..
Jesus let her know yes,she had
sin.. he also,let her know she was no worse than her accusers..
They fled.. Jesus spoke love and compassion... and wisdom.She was released like a prisoner who God gives another chance!
Love of Jesus!
---Lidia4796 on 11/8/13

Karen, you should never judge anyone. You have not walked in Everyone's shoes. We all go thru things in our lives and we never know what someone else is going thru. On the other hand, if a church member is living in sin, 2 or more including the pastor are to go to that person and if the person still is in sin, they can be turned out from fellowship.
---shira4369 on 11/9/13

Your answer is in (1 Corinthians 11:26-29).
---David on 11/9/13

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Shira...I walked in the world's shoes too many years and I say sin is sin. People who tell others not to judge them are really saying, "Shut up. I love my sin."
---KarenD on 11/8/13

Thank you Shira, God bless you. :)
---Mary on 11/8/13

Mary, no one should pass judgement on anyone else until they walk a mile in their shoes.
---Shira4368 on 11/8/13

Hi Lidia, I've missed you too, thank you for the warm welcome back. :) Thank you for not judging me for my past circumstances, I'm afraid some others might but the past is the past and we're happily married now. :) Your pastor sounds like he was pretty nice--and fair. :) God bless your day--and all your treatments, love and hugs, Mary :)
---Mary on 11/8/13

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Mary, I miss you so much. Bk to the blogg, Sis.Rita brought up a subject which actually, happens alot!
God bless you Mary & yes!me,too,went thru a similar situation, very young...
Pastor was firm about it. He never embarrass us, but came to our home and with some sisters, one was my foster mother for some yrs. we did the right thing. I am now, a widow, life good... Love of Jesus!
---Lidia4796 on 11/8/13

Grandma, Mark V and Lidia - thank you very much indeed for your latest comments and for your encouragement.
---Rita_H on 11/7/13

Hi, just to offer my two cents (about what it's probably worth lol): when my husband moved in before we were married, he had no other place to go and would have been homeless. Then we had to track down his ex-wife and finalize the divorce and as soon as we finalized the divorce, we married. We didn't want to sin and married as soon as we could, does this make any sense? Thanks.
---Mary on 11/7/13

Hello,Sis.Rita, be encouraged, we realize that I am not really probably,up to the standard as others may wish, I believe we should respect one another,regardless our background,etc..
I have learn alot from your posts.You are welcome & in high regard as others,far as I am concern. Let your light shine! God knows your heart. Be blessed Sister in Jesus name.
---Lidia4796 on 11/7/13

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Sis. Rita, yes, it bothers some when we answer or post something. That will always happen. When I answer someone it always has to do with what they say about God. I try to correct them, not to say those things about God, and they get pretty angry. I have never seen that happen in person while with brothers and sisters. I suppose it is easier here on line where no one know who you are. Here the other side of them shows a lot. I liked the question, it did not bother me. I believe posting personal matters is a very touchy subject. Since all have different experiences. Keep posting, and peace be with you.
---Mark_V. on 11/7/13

Rita: I saw nothing wrong with your question. You asked for Scripture, which I failed to give, but made reference to.

I remember when I was a baby Christian and I had tons of questions about church policy. I saw your question as wanting to learn more about how different churches practice church discipline.

If it had been gossip, you would have been more specific in the identities of the couple, as well have worded your question a whole lot differently
---Grandma on 11/7/13

Thanks Mark V. I fail to understand why people actually answer questions they think should not have been asked. There is no compulsion here to give an answer just because a question has been posted. Some seem to thrive on creating an argument when none is sought or needed.

I'm pleased that at least a handful here can see the reason for the post and have answered with politeness.

I'll now move on.
---Rita_H on 11/6/13

Rita_h none of this is your business. If the parties want to take Communion or not take communion it is strictly a matter between them and YHWH!!!
---Blogger9211 on 11/6/13

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Sis. Rita, there is nothing wrong with asking others for their opinion on matters of Christian conduct. I didn't see anything wrong at all. You gave enough information so that others could answer one way or another. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 11/6/13

StrongAxe and willie.c: This is not gossip, IS being done openly and IS known about in several churches as well as their own. They expected sympathy to their predicament. Both are free to marry. Money is the real issue but they are shocked at being judged as they thought this only happened when youngsters slept together. They seemed to think they were immune to that. Their own pastor has told them its wrong but another pastor has said that no-one should be refused communion and this is splitting the people generally. I will be adding no more information about this couple but thanks for your input here.
---Rita_H on 11/5/13

It was a pretty simple question, that anyone can answer or not answer. Why make a mountain out of a simple question? I do not see what the fuss is about.
1. The couple should not be living together.
2. The couple should not take holy communion as long as they only live together.
3. Once married, and right with God, then they should take communion.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/13

What the the point of telling this story here, StrongAxe?

And why do the opinions of those outside this church matter?

Why did Rita tell this story here and what is the purpose of soliciting the opinions of others?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/13

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Hi, Rita (c: Matthew 18:15-20 > Jesus said to talk with a wrong person alone, then with witnesses, then take a stubborn person before the church. You have not told us if this was done, first.

And Paul pleads "that you speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment," in 1 Corinthians 1:10. To me, this means he and the obedient need to act in agreement on what to do . . . like how "the whole church" did, in Acts 15:22.

Or else, possibly he is lording himself, which is not Biblical > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
---willie_c: on 11/4/13


You said: Rita, why are you spreading this story here? It's nothing but gossip.

If someone mentions names (or otherwise gives details that can tie this to specific individuals, and thus hurt them), it's gossip. If the details are anonymous, however, it's more like a hypothetical situation.

Also, if someone is doing something openly, there's no longer a case of others spreading harmful secrets about them, because it's not secret.
---StrongAxe on 11/3/13

\\They will be financially worse off if married so money is more important than God's law.
---Rita_H on 11/3/13\\

What's your scripture verse, Rita?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/13

Cluny, you really do love that word GOSSIP don't you? If you know exactly who I am and where I live and who these people are that WOULD BE GOSSIP but I am doing nothing of the kind and I guess you simply cannot answer the question, otherwise you would have done so. Give it another try. SHOULD THEY BE REFUSED THE BREAD AND WINE OR NOT??

Some churches would totally banish them - I know that for a fact.
---Rita_H on 11/4/13

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Sis. Rita, I agree with the pastor completely. If he gives communion to them, he is in fact agreeing with the couple that what they are doing is accepted by God. They need to be right with God. Habitual sin is sin, no matter the case. Almost like the guy in Scripture who was sleeping with his stepmother, Paul suggested the church judge the person as he had already judge him. While it was a different case or cause, it was still sin.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/13

If they "knew their own minds" then they knew that living in concubinage would be a bar to receiving communion there.

Rita, why are you spreading this story here? It's nothing but gossip.

And if you don't like what I'm going to say, don't ask me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/13

When I joined my church, Perry Baptist, I met with the pastor. He explained how the church practices Church Discipline. He explained the Biblical process of counseling a believer, first one on one, then, two or three meeting with the person, etc. I already knew the steps involved, having observed that process at another church. I hope this couple, if they were members of this church, had been educated, prior to moving in together, on how their church chooses to practice church discipline. I also hope they were met with prior to the communion service, and counseled that denial of communion would occur.
---Grandma on 11/3/13

A post of mine has not been posted. I basically said that I believe the pastor is correct and that, before taking communion, each individual should be right with God and their fellow Christians. If we cannot/will not do it we should allow the cup and plate of bread to pass us by. This pastor held it back as he passed the couple. They are offended but don't seem to think that God might be offended by their lifestyle especially now both are saved. They will be financially worse off if married so money is more important than God's law.
---Rita_H on 11/3/13

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Maybe the pastor could have given them some counselling or advise them to be married lawfully.
---Sylvia on 11/3/13

When one becomes a member of a church, one implicitly places oneself under that church's authority structure, and hence, under the pastor's authority.

It doesn't matter what they were doing - living together, watching Harry Potter movies, or rooting for the Packers. If the pastor says it's an offense that breaks communion, what he says goes.

If they don't like it, they can always talk to him, or take it to the elders, or the whole church, per Matthew 18. Or, they can remove themselves from his authority and go to another church.

Hopefully there are enough level-headed people involved in the process to come to a sensible solution.
---StrongAxe on 11/3/13

Where is your scripture verse Cluny?
---Rita_H on 11/3/13

That's standard practice in most churches.

Why are they merely living in concubinage instead of a lawful marriage?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/13

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