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How To Get Baptized

Jesus said to be baptized. John said that he baptizes with water. John said that jesus came to baptize in spirit and fire. Why are our baptismals bath tubs instead of incinerators?

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 ---aka on 11/10/13
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Ro 6-8Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.For he that is dead is freed from sin.Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

So gnostic Markv, who do you believe "the old man" is?

Colossians 3:1-4. YE are dead, and you life is hidden with God IN Christ and when CHRIST "who IS our life" .....

Only those who are crucified with Christ resulting in being raised up together with Christ through the blood of the everlasting covenant a NEW creature, are those IN Christ, are His ELECT church. ****Hebrews 13: 20-21 AND Romans 8: 11-13****
(mortifying means death)
---kathr4453 on 11/25/13


Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 4:22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,

Colossians 3:9Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

Because gnostic Markv does not believe in the two natures of man, one fleshly, one spiritual, but believes "his old man" was re-birthed.

Jesus clearly said, you CAN'T sew a new piece of garment on the OLD.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/13


Again Markv, your silly comments only expose your ignorance of the cross.

I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST...No LONGER 'I' BUT CHRIST IN ME....

IAM IS PRESENT TENSE. NO LONGER I is also present tense.

If perhaps you understood and OBEYED Romans 6, your ignorance would not show.

And seeing you CLAIM to be an expert on FAITH, you would see Galatians also sates AFTER we are crucified with Christ...we live by the faith of CHRIST in you.

But, you do have to be saved to have more than a head knowledge of life IN Christ.

Your statements show a faulty head knowledge and no true knowledge of Christ who is our life.

Your KNOWLEDGE is Gnosticism only. That is ALL you have Markv.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/13


Kathr, speaking religious talk does not make what you say true. You say,
"Now Markv does not understand the cross. When he makes such silly statements as ...oh you physically could not die with Christ because you are still here, so it has to be you spiritually die with Christ???????"
You call it silly? You confess with your mouth you died in Christ, you make a lot of comments, you call me many names, I have to believe you have not died physically yet, if that is not good enough, the sins you commit right now are in the flesh. If you spoke Truth you would speak in the Spirit. So physically, you are still there sinning. You have not died physically.
You are not been silly, you are being argumentative.

---Mark_V. on 11/25/13


Aka,When Peter uses Noah and the flood, the whole of the flood is also a type shadow of that of being NEW, life out of death, comparing the new to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The flood was said to have totally done away with the old. The same is with our baptism with Christ in death and resurrection life. It's our LIFE now that is NEW, not a white washing of the old, or a rebirthing of the old.

We are a NEW CREATURE in the new creation. Jesus is head of the NEW CREATION.

Read Paul's words in Galatians 6.
I am crucified to the world and the world to me...

We died not only to our old Adam, but to this corrupt world itself, as we wait for the new heaven and earth. Even the earth groans waiting Romans 8.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/13




Now Markv does not understand the cross. When he makes such silly statements as ...oh you physically could not die with Christ because you are still here, so it has to be you spiritually die with Christ???????

Well, firstly Jesus didn't die "spiritually" so that I could identify with Jesus "spiritually" in death.

Jesus came in the FLESH to die IN the FLESH, not in His spirit.

Because Markv makes such outrageous comments totally exposing his ignorance to the CROSS, ....it is FOOLISHNESS to him, as it is to the whole of Calvin doctrine.

Because to understand what and how we are IN HIM, why we are complete IN HIM, is because of the Christ finished works on the cross.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/13


Kathr, you give clear evidence of a person depraved. Everyday you hear the Truth and everyday you reject it.
The Bible teaches the total depravity of the human race. What it means is total corruption. Human being are not utterly depraved, as evil as he can be, you could be worse and you are worse then many others. The human race is dead in sin, There is none righteous, "there is none who understands, there is none who seek after God, they have all turned aside, they have together become unprofitable, there is none who does good, no, not one." (Rom. 3:10-12).
You are a good example.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/13


Markv, ."the preaching of the CROSS" seems to be your favorite verse now you use to beat people over the head with.....YET, you wave around a verse you yourself have no clue...and your own words here prove your ignorance.

Calvinism does NOT teach the CROSS Markv, it teaches the opposite called Calvin's twisted version of preselection using Jacob ,who never identified with Christ crucified in the first place.

To marry the two concepts together is outrageous.

In ISAAC will thy seed be called. Like Isaac so are we ISAAC becoming obedient unto death when Abraham laid him on an alter.

Keeping this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus who became obedient unto death.....
---kathr453 on 11/24/13


No Markv, it does NOT mean we spiritually died with Christ. It means that all that I am of this first creation in the first Adam is done away in Christ.

Scripture says THE SOUL that sinneth IT shall die. Nothing about the spirit. Yet, is my soul really dead. Can a soul and spirit become non-extinct.

Jesus died IN the flesh! and MY flesh is crucified with Christ, just as Galatians 5 clearly state...those who have CRUCIFIED the FLESH are Christ's.

Markv, you ramble on and on, and even your rantings make no coherent sense to begin with.

Question, was Adams sin IMPUTED to us, or do you believe original sin is something so tangible as a disease inherited through genetics?
---kathr4453 on 11/23/13


Markv, I believe you really need to have someone go verse by verse and explain thoroughly Romans 5.

Romans 5 totally turn your tulip all 6 petals to wilting, beginning with total depravity. Then wilts the GIFT of faith to the GIFT of Righteousness...and so on.

Good luck finding a God ordained teacher NOT in your reformed/deformed focus group.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/13




Kathr, to argue you gave:
"Markv, again if Adam never sinned, when exactly would he have to be born of the spirit, Since he was never born of the spirit in the first place." We are body, soul, and spirit. Adam did sin, and he died spiritually to God that very day. He became spiritually separated from God.
Then say,
"And if you sin today, does your spirit die again, like you claim Adams did?"
My spiritual birth will never die again no matter the sins I commit, I am a child of God. Nothing can separate me from the love of God, nothing. Why don't you understand? Why do you preach against being born of the Spirit? Jesus taught it and you preach against His teachings. What's up with that?
---Mark_V. on 11/23/13


Kathr, you said you gave the answer but your answer was wrong again. Your answer was,
" it certainly does not mean I am spiritually crucified with Christ"
You are wrong again.
It really means you are spiritually crucified with Christ death. it sure is not physical death, since you are still around here answering wrong. What I believe you are doing is arguing on all answers even when you are wrong just to argue. Why not give up? Study to be approve, and then come back with the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/13


markv, as always I did answer the question and have had the same answer to this question posted for many years now.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/13


Kathr, as always you did not answer the question. Because you have no answer. You say only the elect know, well that is true, I know.
"When a person trusts in Christ for salvation, he spiritually participates with the Lord in His crucifixion and His victory over sin and death" that is what (Gal. 2:20) is speaking about. The believers old self is dead (Eph. 4:22) having been crucified with Christ (Rom. 6:3,5) "It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me, and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God" The believer's new man has the privilege of the indwelling Christ empowering him and living through him (Rom. 8:9,10).
---Mark_V. on 11/20/13


Kathr, you now say,
"I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT SAYING YOU DIE SPIRITUALLY WHEN YOU IDFENTIFY WITH Jesus in death."
Then tell me, what kind of death is he dying with Christ if He remains physically alive? How does he die? Can you explain that?

---Mark_V. on 11/20/13


Markv, ONLY the TRUE ELECT know the answer to that.

The carnal man cannot understand the things of the Spirit. You simply do not understand spiritual things.

You fight tooth and nail with truth. Paul said I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.

What does that mean to you markv? it certainly does not mean I am spiritually crucified with Christ.

YOU have no clue why the Word was made flesh in the first place.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/13


Kathr, you now say,
"I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT SAYING YOU DIE SPIRITUALLY WHEN YOU IDFENTIFY WITH Jesus in death."
Then tell me, what kind of death is he dying with Christ if He remains physically alive? How does he die? Can you explain that?
---Mark_V. on 11/20/13


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Kathr, like bro. Trey said, you build this stories which are not true. Here you say:

"Try again to find a verse saying we were "born spiritually dead. If the first man Adam was not SPITITUAL to begin with, but earthly as 1 Corinthians 15 CLEARLY says, "then the first Adam could not be born SPIRITUALLY DEAD."

If you had been paying attention you would have known that Adam was not born spiritually dead, but died spiritually the day he sinned. God said on the Day that you disobey, you will surely die. And he did that very day. He did not die physically, for he lived a long time, but died spiritually, separated from God. That is why he hide himself.
Why do you think we need to be born of the Spirit?
---Mark_V. on 11/20/13


Here is a good saying...
Born once ....die twice
Born twice...die once.
Markv still doesn't understand John 3 NEVER says, "oh, you were born once of "water and spirit" and that spirit died and your man spirit needs to be reborn. BUT THIS is what Markv believes and teaches.

The first Adam was NOT spiritual , but earthly. Adam was NEVER "BORN of God" Adam was created out of the dust of the earth. Adam was never created a NEW CREATURE as we become, being born from above , BORN of GOD, when we receive Jesus Christ. Adam never had CHRIST IN HIM to begin with.

The NEW CREATURE in Christ is a totally NEW thing, where we are actually a creature now ABOVE the angels. Man was created below the angels.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/13


The real problem with Markv as well as Christan is they don't believe or understand Hebrews 2, and have openly stated so.

The NEW creature , born from ABOVE, Born of God, are what we become are, IN CHRIST, and will spend eternity in heaven With God.

If Adam had never sinned, he would still today be man, created below the angels, running around naked for all eternity in a very small piece of real estate ON earth called the Garden of Eden.

Man was never first created above the angels, and fell from that position in Adam's sin, to be re-birthed again to gain back his original status. No scripture states such things... HOWEVER Mormonism does teach this, as I have stated many times Markv IS a MORMON. Beware!
---kathr4453 on 11/20/13


Markv, she is saying the same thing you said concerning dying. Our flesh is to die daily and that means we can't do what the flesh wants to do.
---shira4368 on 11/19/13


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She is saying you die spiritually when you die with Christ. In other words everyone alive who is not saved is spiritually alive. Shear nonsense.

---Mark_V. on 11/18/13

I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT SAYING YOU DIE SPIRITUALLY WHEN YOU IDFENTIFY WITH Jesus in death. That would mean Jesus died spiritually too. dahhhhhh how stupid! If all Jesus had to do was die spiritually, He didn't need to be made FLESH.

Markv, stop lying and making up things I never said. You are what is called a "menacing spirit"..
---kathr4453 on 11/19/13


Ephesians 2:1

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,


interesting how RICHARD like markv insert words never stated in scripture. this verse does NOT say, "SPIRITUALLY" dead.

Shira understood perfectly...markv, you and your cohorts did not, because you continue to insert words in scripture , that scripture never says.

Try again to find a verse saying we were "born spiritually dead. If the first man Adam was not SPITITUAL to begin with, but earthly as 1 Corinthians 15 CLEARLY says, then the first Adam could not be born SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

Just another play on their "word games" they play.

---kathr4453 on 11/19/13


markv, wow you got me on this one. I did re-read kathr post but it was confusing. the way I know this is if we are born twice, we die once (physical) and if we are born once, we die twice, physical and spiritually speaking.
---shira4368 on 11/18/13


Shira, if you were paying attention, you would have known that Kathr was oppose to what you just said,
"Richard, we are all born in sin and that is what kathr meant. none of us are born saved, so in that context, we are born spiritually dead...unsaved and wicked." She does not believe individuals are born spiritually dead. She gave (Rom. 6:1-11). She is saying you die spiritually when you die with Christ. In other words everyone alive who is not saved is spiritually alive. Shear nonsense.
---Mark_V. on 11/18/13


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A person should NEVER confuse the method with the message. Baptism serves one purpose only and that is to be a testimony of what has happened in a person's life, (accepting Christ a Savior) - that they have died to their sins and are risen from death to a new life in Christ. The method of Baptism, is not important. (As a missionary, I've seen a pastor use a swimming pool of a church member.)

Romans 6:4-6 (ASV)
We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
---wivv on 11/18/13


MarkV,
if we are all born spiritually dead because of Adam, then would you say our spirit is procreated from our parents (Traducianism) or did Adam have the power to corrupt spirits which had not yet been created by God ??
---James_L on 11/18/13


Richard, we are all born in sin and that is what kathr meant. none of us are born saved, so in that context, we are born spiritually dead...unsaved and wicked.
---shira4368 on 11/18/13


Karthr - No such thing as being born spiritually dead ?

Psalms 51:5 - Behold , I was shapen in iniguity : and in sin my mother conceive me,

Ephesians 2:1 - From death to life , in the past you were spiritually dead because of disobedience and sin , ( GNT )
---RichardC on 11/17/13


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David, thank you for your concern for me. But you do not have to worry about my soul, I am right with God. Worry about yours and what you believe.
I also don't answer to make anyone look bad, or me look good, it is not about me but about the Truth (Christ). Kathr talks a good religious talk, but that is all it is, talk. Adam died on the day he disobeyed, spiritually died, for he was separated from God at the moment he sinned. All descendants of Adam are born spiritually dead, otherwise there would be no reason or need for a person who is physically alive to be born of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God. Kathr speaks nonsense. I would not put much stock on what she says. Now that is the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 11/18/13


Kathr
Thanks for the advice. I have had many conversations with Mark over the years.
He is very elusive in his answers when he knows you are right.

I don't ask these questions to make myself look good, or to make him look bad, I ask them hoping that they will open his eyes to the Truth.

Mark is zealous for God much like Saul/Paul was, and I would hate for him to discover the Truth when it will no longer do him any good.
---David on 11/17/13


Those who overcome will not face the "second death". Ok, to establish a second death, we must first establish when the first death took place. Did this first death take place when you were born, or when you physically died? " Or " when you died with Christ?

THEN AGAIN, those who died with Christ (Romans 6)(Galatians 2:20) will not see the "second death".

According to the above verses, if you were born dead??, wouldn't your identification with Christ's death be your second death?

Marks usage of being BORN DEAD, is just another gnostic teaching that validates his false teaching, and fails to discern the word death/dead from many different aspects.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/13


John 3:29_31 "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease. He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

No one is dead by being earthly. Man dies by whatever he yields himself to, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" And if he dies by his yielding, he was not dead prior to it.
---Nana on 11/16/13


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Every descendant of Adam is born spiritually dead, even those chosen by God. (Eph. 1-2:1-10).
---Mark_V. on 11/16/13

Again 1corinthians 15, or John 3 makes no such claim...it says the first man Adam was NOT spiritual but carnal. The first man Adam was earthly not spiritual.

So there is no such thing as being born "spiritually" dead.

This is why God has explained to is through His word. The Last Adam was spiritual, heavenly...and our becoming spiritual is not a reincarnation or rebirth of our first birth.

John 3 again clarifies this...if you read it with 1Corinthians 15.
---kathr4453 on 11/16/13


John said of Jesus, "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire"

Ultimately, it's up to Jesus to baptize in fire, nobody else. If anyone is going to be incinerated, Jesus will do it, where and whenever he deems it appropriate.
---StrongAxe on 11/16/13


aka, if you read in the scriptures, when a person is baptized into the church it is always by water baptism. When Christ baptizes one, they are baptized by fire which is a cleansing flame.
Look to the scriptures for instruction.
---trey on 11/16/13


David, why would you ask that question when I had already given you the answer to spiritual baptism. Here was my answer,
"David, all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit at salvation, it is a spiritual baptism.---Mark 11/15/13" was that not clear? The asked,
" Mark
Since you believe God chose you before you were born, is this when you were baptized by the Holy Spirit and received your salvation?"
I believe the word of God. Eph. chapter one tells us "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" chapter 2 tells us how our spiritual baptism came about. So the answer is no. Every descendant of Adam is born spiritually dead, even those chosen by God. (Eph. 1-2:1-10).
---Mark_V. on 11/16/13


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Davis, great question...however do pay attention to the words of Markv saying "AT SALVATION" not before like he continues to teach and the Calvin doctrine teaches.

Markv has played words games here, saying the new birth! salvation! regeneration!sealing of the Holy Spirit are not the same thing. But he can't prove through scripture they are all independent of one another.
---kathr4453 on 11/16/13


David, all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit at salvation, it is a spiritual baptism.---Mark_V. on 11/15/13

Mark
Since you believe God chose you before you were born, is this when you were baptized by the Holy Spirit and received your salvation?
If you didn't do anything to be saved, isn't this the only logical time this could occur?

Not that I agree, but at least a salvation without works teaching makes more sense if this is your answer.
---David on 11/15/13


\\"And it's your own decision to exercise your act of saving faith, so that's a work, too."
You exercise what God has given you, for saving faith comes from God, lest anyone should boast. Your boasting Cluny.\\

While faith is a divine gift--which I've never denied--the individual must USE the gift, and that's STILL a work.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/15/13


//That would be done by the Presbyters.// And you find that scripture where?
---michael_e on 11/16/13


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Cluny, you say,
"And it's your own decision to exercise your act of saving faith, so that's a work, too."
You exercise what God has given you, for saving faith comes from God, lest anyone should boast. Your boasting Cluny.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/13


\\No, someone baptizes you, but you are the one who volunteers to be baptized to do what Jesus commanded, so it is your own works. Your own decision to get baptized.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/13
\\

And it's your own decision to exercise your act of saving faith, so that's a work, too.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/15/13


David, all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit at salvation, it is a spiritual baptism. (1 Cor. 12:13: Rom. 8:9: 1 Cor. 6:19: Titus 3:5,6). When they are baptized by the Holy Spirit they become a part of the Body of Christ spiritually.
The indwelling of the Spirit is given to all believers for ministry. They receive gifts for ministry, and to help us through this life.
"..So that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ..." (1 Cor. 1:7-9).
But there is more, we are also sealed by the Spirit. That is another action by God. Everything we receive is a gift of God.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/13


Cluny, you are correct, we you say,
"If Jesus commanded it, it's necessary." That is true, it is one of the requirements the Lord ask us to do. Then you say:
"And if you baptized yourself, it would be a work, but you don't baptize
yourself."
No, someone baptizes you, but you are the one who volunteers to be baptized to do what Jesus commanded, so it is your own works. Your own decision to get baptized.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/13


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Mark
As Kathr pointed out, there's a big difference between the Gift of the Holy Spirit which convicts us of sin, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

How did you receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit, if it's not in the manner prescribed in (Acts 2:38)?
---David on 11/15/13


\\1 Cor 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize..."
Do you think he was to busy, or it wasn't necessary to baptize?\\

Aside from the fact that St. Paul actually DID baptize the family of Stephanos in 1 Cor, as well as the Phillipian jailer in Acts, being in effect a missionary bishop, it would not be his normal duty to baptize in a local congregation. That would be done by the Presbyters.

So it is today in the Orthodox Church--which is not to say that bishop will not baptize on occasion. I've seen them do so.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/14/13


There is a difference between the "GiftS of the Spirit" and the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Gift, "singular" of the Holy Spirit is the SEALING of the Holy Spirit after we believe.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/13


//If Jesus commanded it, it's necessary.//
Matt 28:16 "Then the ELEVEN disciples went away into Galilee,.." 19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them..." 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU:
You don't think you are one of the eleven, do you?
Paul our pattern(1 Tim 1:16) says
1 Cor 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize..."
Do you think he was to busy, or it wasn't necessary to baptize?
---michael_e on 11/14/13


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David, you ask,
"Michael
Does this mean you do not believe we need the gift of Gods Holy Spirit to be saved?"

Not to be saved. You need the Grace of God in order to be saved. The gifts of the Spirit are given to every believer once he is saved. They are for ministry.
Nothing we do saves us. It is all a supernatural act of God.
---Mark_V. on 11/14/13


When we are saved we choose to do the will of GOD because we are saved. We choose to be baptized. That is called believer's baptism because it is not done to babies.

If a person says to GOD I know you say to get baptized but I choose not to. Then they are not accepting JESUS as LORD.

To be our Savior JESUS has to be our LORD also. So no we do not get baptized to be saved. We get baptized and follow JESUS because we are saved.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/14/13


**//YOU are the one who has to do the believing.//
You don't think believing is a physical work as is water baptism, do you?
Water baptism is an unnecessary work.
---michael_e on 11/14/13**

If Jesus commanded it, it's necessary.

And if you baptized yourself, it would be a work, but you don't baptize yourself.

You RECEIVE baptism at the hands of another.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/14/13


//YOU are the one who has to do the believing.//
You don't think believing is a physical work as is water baptism, do you?
Water baptism is an unnecessary work.
---michael_e on 11/14/13


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Anything you think you MUST do for salvation is a work.--michael_e on 11/13/13

Michael
Does this mean you do not believe we need the gift of Gods Holy Spirit to be saved?
---David on 11/14/13


**//When you take away all the physical, external aspects of salvation, what do you wind up with?// SALVATION by faith plus nothing
Anything you think you MUST do for salvation is a work.
---michael_e on 11/13/13**

WRONG AGAIN!

Even the act of saving faith is itself a good work, because YOU are the one who has to do the believing.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/14/13


//Jesus and the apostles disagree with you//
Jesus and the twelve apostles ministered to Israel with very few exceptions. Matt 10:6, 15:24 Rom 15:8 Israel had faith plus works based salvation,
"Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins." Acts 2:38
The boC has "One baptism" based on faith plus nothing.
Acts 16:31, 1Cor 15:1-4
So unless you think you are "spiritual Israel, or you have replaced Israel, water baptism isn't necessary.
//When you take away all the physical, external aspects of salvation, what do you wind up with?// SALVATION by faith plus nothing
Anything you think you MUST do for salvation is a work.
---michael_e on 11/13/13


\\Water baptism isn't necessary.\\

Jesus and the apostles disagree with you.

Water baptism would be a work if you baptized yourself, but you do NOT do so.

Rather, you RECEIVE baptism being administered to you by another.

When you take away all the physical, external aspects of salvation, what do you wind up with?

NO salvation.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/13


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Water baptism isn't necessary.
Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it's the gift of God, Not of works..," water baptism is a work. Salvation is a "free gift" (Rom 5:15), not something we earn by works.
Rom 3:22 righteousness is given to, "all them that believe", not just to all who believe and are baptized in water.
This is why Paul wrote in 1 Cor 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.." The gospel of grace is Christ, the Son of God, freely gave His life as the perfect sacrifice for all our sins, was crucified, was buried, and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
---michael_e on 11/13/13


(Zechariah 13:9)
I will bring the onethird through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested.


How are silver and Gold refined? They are fired until all of the impurities are burned up, and only then are they made pure.
How does the silver and Gold smith know when the silver and Gold are pure? They can see their reflection in the pot of Gold or silver.

This refining of men is what is called being baptized in the fire, it is also called being made Holy.
God tests us until he can see his Holy reflection in us. Those refined by God are called the Sons of God.
---David on 11/13/13


You all might want to look up MIKVEH and TEVILAH on your favorite search engine. You will find out surprising things about the Jewish antecedent of Christian baptism.

For example, did you know that triple immersion--done naked, btw--is part of the ceremony of converting a gentile to Judaism. This includes infants as well.

Does this sound like something I've told you all before?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/13


\\Sorry Cluny I forgot for a moment. Please accept my apology.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/12/13\\

May God forgive us all.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/13


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The Bible speaks of baptisms, ONE is water, identifying Christ with Israel.
The coming kingdom was combined with good news of remission of sins. The water baptism gospel, the gospel during Jesus ministry to Israel (Luke 7:29-30).
They continued the water baptism gospel through Pentecost where Israel asked what they should do for crucifying the Messiah. Acts 2:38
A disciple of Jesus explained to Paul water baptism washed away sins: Acts 22:16
No one preaching the baptism gospel understood the preaching of the cross. Wherever the baptism gospel is presented it's presented for remission (forgiveness) of sins.
It's first known by Paul that water baptism isn't required and separate from forgiveness through Christs blood (Eph 1:7).
---michael_e on 11/12/13


Sorry Cluny I forgot for a moment. Please accept my apology.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/12/13


\\Cluny can you not read?

Eph 4:5 5 One Lord, one faith,
ONE baptism,\\

michael_e, can you not read?

St. Paul talks about baptismS. The tradition of the Church is that Paul wrote Heabrews.

**So Cluny some small flicks of fire will land on the sinner every day? Because you baptize by sprinkling**

And you're wrong, Samuel.

Orthodox, as I've repeatedly said, baptize by triple immersion. Where did you get the idea that we used sprinkling? (BTW, even the Roman Catholic church uses POURING normally, not sprinkling.)

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/13


Michael e, you are wrong. When Paul was speaking in (Eph. 4:5) he was speaking about the oneness or unity of body, Spirit, hope, Lord faith, baptism and God the Father. His focus was on the Trinity. The Spirit (v.4, the Son (v. 5), and the Father (v.6). One baptism is one baptism in water.
Because later in (1 Cor. 12:11-13) Paul in the context is speaking of Spiritual baptism by which all believers are placed into the body of Christ. It is a spiritual baptism done by God the Spirit. Water baptism is done by the individual who submits himself to be baptize by water as Jesus did.
---Mark_V. on 11/12/13


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schoney's for veteran's day.
---aka on 11/11/13

Thanks for serving
---Scott1 on 11/11/13


//WRONG//
???
Cluny can you not read?

Eph 4:5 5 One Lord, one faith,
ONE baptism,
1 Cor 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,..."
//In Hebrews 6:2, St. Paul uses the PLURAL//
Where do you find that Paul wrote Hebrews?
The writer of Hebrews uses the plural because of John's water baptism(John 3), the Pentecostal Holy Spirit baptism,(Acts 2) the baptism unto Moses(1Cor 10:2)The baptism for today(1Cor 12:13)
That is more than one, PLURAL.
//And he himself got baptized in wet water (as in H2O), as he did to the household of Stephanus.//
So he did something he didn't need to do and wasn't sent to do.
(1 Cor 1:17)
Paul also said rightly divide as you study 2 Tim 2:15
---michael_e on 11/11/13


The bible gives us samples of how to get baptised.

Jesus was baptised with water, if it were not needed, he would say so.

The apostles were baptised in water, if it were not needed, they would say so.

The whole body is emersed in water to cleanse the whole body unto the repentance of sin and remission of sins. Thereafter come the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the laying of the hands. Meditate upon Act 19:1-7. Unfortunately, a majority of christians only stop at the water baptism. This is why people do not see greater miracles than what Jesus performed.
---Steveng on 11/11/13


So Cluny some small flicks of fire will land on the sinner every day? Because you baptize by sprinkling.

We are supposed to be buried in the water. Just as the Didache teaches. Which is from Our Early Church Fathers. Yes there was an exemption for those in the desert who did not have enough water.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/11/13


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"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?" (Romans 6:3)

If we truly have been baptized into the death of Jesus, we have been baptized into His love which had Him so suffering and dying in His love for us. So, this love will change us to become loving like Jesus > "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." (John 15:17)

Our personalities were designed by God to function in the ways of His love. "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) If we are baptized into being "one spirit with Him", His love's ways will win in us (c:
---willie_c: on 11/11/13


\\Paul says there is only one baptism, it's found in 1 Cor 12:13 and Rom 6:3.\\

WRONG!

In Hebrews 6:2, St. Paul uses the PLURAL: "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

And he himself got baptized in wet water (as in H2O), as he did to the household of Stephanus.

Don't you read the Bible?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/13


Micheal_e, you have made my point. Thank you.

now, after a 4 hour nap, it is time to go get my free hamburger at schoney's for veteran's day.
---aka on 11/11/13


Since Paul makes it clear there is only one baptism( Eph 4:5) why the hullabaloo over baptisms?
Paul says there is only one baptism, it's found in 1 Cor 12:13 and Rom 6:3.
It's dry and performed by the Spirit baptizing you into Christ. This is the baptism that saves you. It has nothing to do with water.
If you see this, you have succeeded at scripturally understanding the information Jesus gave Paul supersedes the information found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
If you don't see this you are stuck trying to reconcile the multiple baptisms taught in the Lords earthly ministry to the nation of Israel(Rom 15:8)with the single baptism in Eph 4:5. to the boC.
1 Peter 3:21 water baptism for Israel (ref Gal 2:8,9)
---michael_e on 11/11/13


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"Why are our baptismals bath tubs instead of incinerators?" :oD))
That's funny. Aka baptism in this age is meant to cleanse not kill.
---josef on 11/10/13


Jesus was baptized in water. He had his apostles baptize in water. We are doing likewise.

Scripture did not tell us to be baptized in fire. It says Jesus will do that. We are to baptize with water.
---Grandma on 11/10/13


You can come to Jesus through the waters of baptism, and He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

And If you don't, then He will baptize you in the fires of hell.

That's the teaching of the Orthodox Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/13


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