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What Is God's Plan

After readying the Bible, what is your definition of God's Plan from Scripture? In your mind how do you see God working through the lives of everyone? I know each one of us has some kind of idea, which is yours? Please do not cut down anyone for their opinion.

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 ---Mark_V. on 11/11/13
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Kathr, I can honestly say, of all who answer, you are the only one whose evil. I don't think the others are, just you. The others only follow your lead because they see that it is better if you answer for them. They are not evil, they just don't know how they were saved if they ever were. By the looks of things they are not able to answer to the passages in Scripture. Jesus says salvation with man is impossible they say it is not true, it is possible. God says He has to draw you, you guys say that is not true, you can use your own free will to come to Christ. God says, there is none who understand or seek after God, you guys say the unsaved understand and do seek after God. The very opposite of what God says. And you call me a moron. Great.
---Mark_V. on 11/25/13


John 1:12-23
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

AGAIN, scripture tells us "the will of man" whether in bondage to sin, or totally free from sin, cannot / does not bring about the New Birth.

BUT "to as many as receive Him " DOES. So receiving Christ has NOTHING to do with the will of man.

FAITH is something above any beyond the will of man.

It's called the FOOLISHNESS of GOD.... Faith was instituted AFTER the fall of man, FOR the sinner.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/13


1 Corinthians 1:21-25

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


Completely debunks Calvinism doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/13


Christan,

Your sophmoric "rebuttal" of my point, one you don't actually answer, was that I should spend more time reading the Bible. I think we're all guilty of that.

Nevertheless, your error is easily corrected. Rather than isolating one verse from Romans, Paul's theological and philosophical masterpiece, and hanging a whole heretical soteriology on it, you should come to grips with the surrounding 3 CHAPTER context.

Christan, anything less is called intellectual laziness.
---Marc on 11/24/13


kathr4453, don't bring yourself down to his level. He calls everyone who doesn't conform to his ideology evil. He has not looked in the mirror, yet.

He is telling everyone else that they are wrong and not questioning his own thoughts. He believes he is right and everyone is wrong. He does not learn anything spiritual, he learns the bible using worldly knowledge.
---Steveng on 11/24/13




I had considered explaining about Markv's rantings but Kath beat me to it!

He shouldn't give up his day job.
---Warwick on 11/24/13


Marc, ---- What we do know is that right now you just don't have it. ----
---Mark_V. on 11/24/13

Who exactly is "WE"???

What a flaming moron! What an arrogant piece of condescending self-righteous horse dung.

What WE all know Markv is that YOU are in a cult, are lost as lost can be, and Know most would say the majority of people here don't give a rats behind what you think.

Ok Markv, now rant and tell me how evil I am.....like we haven't already heard you on that one before.

The Markv who speaks for God.....the
Idiot who suffers form delusions of granduer sitting in judgement of others.....

Just wait Markv.....we' all have our moment as we WATCH God judging you.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/13


Christan, regarding John 7:17 belief and disbelief are attitudes of man. Roman's 1:20 tells us God's Creation in which we live is such proof of God's existence that those who doubt are "without excuse." But nonetheless in their sin and in their stubborn disbelief they will not believe. Their choice.

As to John 6:29 Gill says "it is man's act: "that ye believe", the object of it is Christ, as sent by the Father, as the Mediator between God and men, as appointed by him to be the Saviour and Redeemer, and believing in Christ, is believing in God that sent him." Whether we believe or disbelieve is all down to us otherwise we could not be blamed.

Now how about you attend to my questions you have evaded?
---Warwick on 11/24/13


Marc, the first thing I thought about this morning is why God did not give you spiritual understanding. I really don't know the answer. Maybe He wants you to be without it, because later on He might give you light. Or maybe He will never give it to you. No one knows. What we do know is that right now you just don't have it. I do not lose sleep over it. In fact I don't lose sleep because I cannot do anything for you but give you the Truth. You say you have free will, but it has not helped you at all. In and of youself you cannot change your own heart, no matter how much Truth you read from us, God has to change it for you.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/13


Warwick says,
"Christan, John 7:17 is a perfect example of man having free-will. Free-will being the right and ability to choose yes or no."
It is the ability to choose without a cause. That is freedom.
(John 7:17) "If anyone wills to do His will" only those who are saved will to do His will. You know why? Because every believer is free from the bondage of sin. He who desires to do the will of God is because the Holy Spirit has applied the principles of Scripture to the believers hearts and become free from sins's bondage and are enabled to obey God and do His will (John 8:34-36).
Without the Spirit they remain in bondage to sin, their will's are not free. They need to be made free by God.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/13




Warwick, to you when a man "does the will of God" which is to "believe in His Son", it's because of his freewill? Really? Is that your understanding of John 7:17?

You conveniently disregard what Christ declared, "THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." John 6:29. How does your freewill even mingle with what Christ declared? Your understanding is simply erroneous.

Does Scripture say, "It's by the man's freewill, that ye believe on him who he hath sent"? Christ explicitly declared "THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD"!

You're exalting your freewill instead of God's work in the sinner to "believe".
---christan on 11/23/13


Marc, if only you spend time and "effort" reading the Scriptures, the answer to your God-less question is there. Paul already has knowledge from God of your unbelief and declares,

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"
Romans 9:13,14,19-21
---christan on 11/23/13


Christan, John 7:17 is a perfect example of man having free-will. Free-will being the right and ability to choose yes or no.

"If anyones will is to do Gods will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

John here shows us both man and God have free-will.
---Warwick on 11/23/13


I can just imagine as MarkV tucked his children into bed each night, the last words he would speak to them (and the first words each morning) were "In and of yourselves, you cannot escape. You are heading to hell, condemned."

And don't come whining about attacking your family. If it's good enough for us, your enemies, to continually, ad nausem, hear your perverted Gospel (i.e. the Good News) surely you must have said the same to your children.
No wonder your son has rejected God. I did too until I heard the real Good News of God's love.
---Marc on 11/23/13


.... why God would only will some to believe.....
---Marc on 11/22/13

?? Any can believe...few believe all. Distortion that is taught/learned is the main reason you would ask the question.
Scriptures explain why he chose and loved Israel. He tells why he married and put away/divorced Israel in part (Nth House). And then prophecies his mercy and forgiveness to her.
Start here perhaps:Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people, for ye were the fewest of all people:
---Trav on 11/23/13


Christan, again I ask.

You brought up Jesus crucifixion and I asked,

1) If man has free-will did God foreknow they would seek Jesus' death for their own selfish reasons, therefore witlessly bringing about God's purposes? That is did they, in their selfishness, unknowingly do what God wanted? If this is so then they sinned, didn't they?

2) Or did God sow seeds into their minds manipulating them into believing it was their decision to kill Jesus? If so they did not sin, did they?

I believe you must be posing that one or the other is true? Which is it?
---Warwick on 11/23/13


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Steveng,

Re your Adam and Eve question, people like MarkV and Christan will tell you that God caused them to disobey him because it's a part of his plan.

How's that for a non-Christian take on things?
---Marc on 11/23/13


Warwick, you are a teacher of the word, why do you not understand Scripture concerning fallen man? (Matt 23:37) only proofs why God finds man guilty. They are not willing to come to Christ. Do you know why? "There is none who understands" that's why we are told, "There is none who seek after God" (Rom. 3:11). They are dead in trespasses and sins, doing the desires of the prince of the power of the air, the devil. The spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. How can they escape? Impossible. They need for God to give them freedom and bring them to Christ. In and of themselves, they cannot escape. They are heading to hell, condemned. Only a supernatural act of God can save them from the wrath to come.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/13


I say you can also establish the meaning of Jhn 6:44 by comparing it to Matt 23:37.
---Warwick on 11/22/13

Interesting these areas of scripture came up.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

You kill the prophets like those in Matt 23. By preaching opposed doctrines of men/denoms.
Having never quoted/posted a prophet here. Knowing you cannot.

John states, if you were drawn you would have knowledge of GOD and his prophets using their witness as testimony of Israel. Rather your lack of witness knowledge/reference is testimony/witness of the truth of these scriptures. Sheep should beware.
---Trav on 11/23/13


Christan I am stating the obvious, that Matthew 23:37 is a statement in favour of free-will. "and you were unwilling" speaks only of free-will because 'unwilling' in the underlying Greek is 'thelo' to will, to decide, want to, wish, desire.' All of these meanings mean free-will.

Free-will is not about making good or bad decisions, but both. But it is about reasoned choice.

That Matthew came before John or vice versa changes nothing because 'thelo' means free-will.
---Warwick on 11/22/13


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Mark_V.: "Steven, you can read all the passages you put down and not one speaks of free will."

Re-read my post of 11/21/13 again, I wasn't writing about free-will.
---Steveng on 11/22/13


I'd love to hear from Christan or MarkV why God would only will some to believe and leave the vast majority of people alive and who were alive going to hell because God didn't want them to believe.

Is it too hard to answer such a simple question?
---Marc on 11/22/13


God said to Adam and Eve: "Thou shalt not eat from this tree." Did God's will make Eve sin? God wanted obedience. That's why he created all these laws - the ultimate being love, genuine love (as in the verb form). We have a choice to either obey or disobey his laws. If we obey, God rewards us. If we disobey, God punishes us. God's laws would be in vain if we didn't have our free wills to obey them or not.

Genesis 22:18
Genesis 26:5
Exodus 19:5
Deuteronomy 21:20
Deuteronomy 27:10
Joshua 5:6
Judges 2:2
1 Samuel 12:14-24
Proverbs 5:13
Isaiah 1:19
Jeremiah 7:23
Jeremiah 11:8
Jeremiah 12:17
Daniel 9:11
Romans 2:8
Romans 5:19
Romans 6:16-17 (choice)
Ephesians 6:1
---Steveng on 11/22/13


Freewillers play with all the words to justify what freewill means to them, but what they are basically saying is that the fall of man in the garden wasn't ABSOLUTE.

They say that Adam's disobedience didn't render mankind "dead to God" but Paul contradicts their freewill theory, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Romans 5:12

Notice the keywords "death by sin", a direct contradiction of who God is, "Life and Holiness". Paul reaffirms this, reminding the Christian how he was saved - "And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins".
---christan on 11/22/13


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Yes MarkV you are giving me a definition. But it is not one I accept and not what I mean. I gave you the definition that I mean. Which is not what you are arguing against. I do not know where you got your definition but I have mind from two sources. I gave one earlier from wiktionary.

free will
1.A person's natural inclination, unforced choice.
2.(philosophy) The ability to choose one's actions, or determine what reasons are acceptable motivation for actions, without predestination, fate etc.

The second is from a theological point of view. Now since this is what I mean then you should accept that and not say I do not mean what I am saying.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/22/13


Warwick, are you declaring (even though we now have the complete Bible) that Matthew 23:37 precedes John 6:44? How? That the "unwillingness" was borne out of the freewill (though not a word is mentioned in the Bible with regards to your theory) and not because the Father "didn't draw them"?

Isn't that illogical even after Christ declared that "one must be drawn by the Father to even go to Him"? The "unwillingness" mentioned by Christ basically means "unbelief" that He was God, wasn't that the very reason Christ was crucified?

Your "unwillingness" to belief what is written in black/white is rooted in "unbelief".
---christan on 11/22/13


All the clanging and drum beating of the freewill of mankind still comes to naught. And why? Not even an explicit verse from the Bible is even presented after all the hot-air to justify of such a "precious gift" you imagine that God has given to man. How pathetic.

Talk, talk, talk is all the freewillers ever do and worse still, misuse verses from the Scriptures to say what it doesn't even say.

"for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes" Romans 1:16 - do you see Paul saying, "it's the power of man's freewill for everyone who believes"? But that's what freewillers imagine it to be... that it's their power, not God's.
---christan on 11/22/13


Samuel, I gave you the definition, you changed the definition.
You try so hard to reject the Truth. The most common definition of free will is the ability to make a choice without any prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. If we make choices strictly from a neutral posture, without no prior inclination, then we make choices for no reason. If we have no reason for our choices, and they are utterly spontaneous, then our choice have no moral significance. If our choices have no moral significance it cannot be judge good are bad, When God evaluates our choices, He will judge us for the reason we made those choices, our motives.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/13


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People making choices for no reason are cause. What all of you free willers are saying is that you received Christ without a cause. Mark_V.


---Samuelbb7 on 11/22/13


when I received Jesus Christ it was CAUSE the Bible, God's Word said God sent His Son to die for my sin, and whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

If that isn't a choice based on a "CAUSE" I don't know what is.

YET again, we are not saved by our WILL. I can't believe markv is still howling at the moon with that one.

---kathr4453 on 11/22/13


trav and Warwick... Mark knows what we were saying concerning free will. They choose to rant on and on for the sake of disruption of believers. I have shown scripture and mark and Christian many verses but they answer no questions I ask. Mark never gives a straight buy rambles on and on about 1 subject. It's clear he does not understand Gods word.
---shira4368 on 11/22/13


People making choices for no reason are cause. What all of you free willers are saying is that you received Christ without a cause. Mark_V.

Markv we do not believe what you say we believe. The definition of Free Will that you give is not what we mean.

Tell me why do you insist that we must use the definition you push on us? Is it because if you actually understood what we believe you could not make the above statements because then you would know that they are lies.

Free will means we are not forced to believe. Not that our belief has no causes. We do not believe in irresistible grace. The teaching that we are forced to believe. Nor that GOD forces humans to sin. Now please use that definition or you will be lying.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/22/13


Christan, denomalogic's like to ask questions not answer. Thinking it gives them a form of control. They run, divert or evade. Like pharaoh they may not be able to submit to truth.
GOD as Creator has his own plan....as evidenced to everyone but those who think they control by their will.
Showing their heart and mind. If their testimony does not match a prophets...then....

1Ch 17:9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, will plant them, they shall dwell in their place....
1Ch 17:10 ... Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. ...that the LORD will build thee an house.
1Ch 17:11 ...I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons,...
---Trav on 11/22/13


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Christan, from a finished thread: my questions were aimed at understanding your belief.

You brought up Jesus crucifixion and I asked,

1) If man has free-will did God foreknow they would seek Jesus' death for their own selfish reasons, therefore witlessly bringing about God's purposes? That is did they, in their selfishness, unknowingly do what God wanted? If this is so then they sinned, didn't they?

2) Or did God sow seeds into their minds manipulating them into believing it was their decision to kill Jesus? If so they did not sin, did they?

I believe you must be posing that one or the other is true? Which is it?
---Warwick on 11/22/13


Christan read Matthew 23:37 again "How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling", Matthew 23:37. Unwilling in the underlying Greek is 'thelo' to will, to decide, want to, wish, desire.' This clearly means those of whom He spoke had been given the offer (if not they had nothing to decide about) and of their own free-will decided/willed/wished not to avail themselves of His offer. If they had no free-will, as you claim, you have made this Scripture nonsensical.

You suggest I establish the meaning of Matthew 23:37 by comparing it to John 6:44. I say you can also establish the meaning of John 6:44 by comparing it to Matthew 23:37.
---Warwick on 11/22/13


As I've previously stressed, the blind ALWAYS quote out of context. John 6:44 has a context. "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."

How did the JEWS learn from and thus were drawn by the Father? Jesus tells us: From the Scriptures because they testify of Jesus. That is, the Scriptures speak about the coming Messiah, he arrives and then he draws men to the Father.
---Marc on 11/22/13


Steven, you can read all the passages you put down and not one speaks of free will. Free will is never mentioned in the Bible. People making choices for no reason are cause. They all have a reason or a cause for making choices. The unsaved do not make a choice for Christ because they do not love Christ. "We love Him because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19). Without God first loving us, we will never love Christ. When a person commits his life to Christ there is a cause, he has to have faith. What all of you free willers are saying is that you received Christ without a cause. There was no reason for you to choose Christ. No faith. No one can come to Christ without faith. No one. Why doesn't the light bulb light in your heads?
---Mark_V. on 11/22/13


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"Your words do not glorify God. Your words don't carry any love at all." steveng

Look at yourself in the mirror and say the very same words when you preach your freewill doctrine.

How does your freewill doctrine "glorify God" when the man's will can out-power God's will to save the sinner? Scripture explicitly declares otherwise.

"...but unto us which are saved it is the power of God... But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18,24

You beat your freewill drum vehemently and yet cannot produce a single verse that explicitly says God has given man the freewill to exist, let alone choose.
---christan on 11/22/13


Paul continues,"Gentiles do the things contained in the law, do not have the law, but show the law's work written on their hearts." (Rom. 2:14ff)
---Marc on 11/20/13

Marc...you need one key to the puzzle here. Who wrote the laws on the heart??
Only GOD can do that, wouldn't you agree.
There is only one place and one people that have these written in their heart in scripture.
Find the laws written, you've found the people.
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb_10:16 ...in their minds will I write them,
---Trav on 11/22/13


Reformed is just another word for CALVINISM. Yet Markv continually plays stupid in this area...for whY reason I do not know. Reformed theology IS the doctrine of Calvinism Markv.

Calvin wanted to REFORM the RCC, while continuing with much of the RCC doctrine, leading to their own DEFORMED doctrine...still murdering anyone who disagreed with them.

However the Bible NEVER needed to be REFORMED. AND Paul NEVER taught the murdering of anyone who rejected his own revelations from God. None of the Apostles did.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/13


.... finally, you see it demonstrated in people like MarkV and Christan.... They believe that God eternally punishes people for not believing in Him despite God withholding salvation from them.
God does not choose them but punishes them for not being chosen.
Truly, the indication of insanity.
---Marc on 11/21/13

You voice a vindictive opinion, foundationed on your earth/career experience. Which cannot found in scripture.
Give them scripture since this is what we are placing our faith in....not your experience.
Punishment?
God can do what he wants with who he wants.
Exo_9:16 ..in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power, that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
---Trav on 11/22/13


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"...you ask where mans free-will appears in Scripture? All throughout Scripture. " Warwick

Talk is cheap! Throughout? Where?

Matthew 23:37 promotes freewill? Compare Scripture with Scripture and make an assessment of Matthew 23:37 with John 6:44, you'll notice those who were "unwilling", were simply because they weren't "drawn by the Father", period.

The cause and effect of one being "unwilling" to go to Christ is because they weren't "drawn by the Father". Vice-versa. Therefore, I will confess that my believing and going to Christ is because of what Christ declared in John 6:44, 65. And there's no other way to Him, period.
---christan on 11/21/13


Mark V, when will the accusations stop? When will your twisting of scripture stop? When will twisting other person's posts stop? When will you stop belittling people?

Your negativity will keep getting worse as I have observed for the past few months.

Even though you rarely, if ever, read the verses I give, here are some anyway:

Psalm 10:7
Psalm 34:13
Psalm 52:4
Proverbs 6:17
Proverbs 12:18
Proverbs 15:2,4
Proverbs 17:20
Proverbs 18:21
James 1:26
James 3:5-8
James 4:11
1 Peter 2:1
1 Peter 3:10
Ephesians 4:25, 31
1 Timothy 4:2
Titus 2:15


Your words do not glorify God. Your words don't carry any love at all. Let no one despise you for the things you say.
---Steveng on 11/21/13


Christan you ask where mans free-will appears in Scripture? All throughout Scripture. For one example Jesus says "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling", Matthew 23:37. This needs no explanation as "unwilling" is by definition and act of will.

Further "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!"

Whose will was exercized in killing those mentioned above? Was it God's will, or man's will? It must be one or the other.
---Warwick on 11/21/13


MarkV wrote: "Calvin is not my friend, Buddie. I hardly know anything he wrote. I am a reformer, and follow the reform view of salvation."

Folks, who's going to be the person to break the news to ol' Mark here?

Mark, yu jus' gotta ge' sum ejakashun!
---Marc on 11/21/13


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As a professional mental health worker I can say from experience that there is a point at which irrationality replaces, to varying degrees, rationality. You see it in pro-Death, I mean, pro-choice adherents. You see it in people who try to evade the clear Scriptural proof for a young earth. And finally, you see it demonstrated in people like MarkV and Christan who, like the ancient and modern Gnostics, hold 2 contradictory views simultaneously. They believe that God eternally punishes people for not believing in Him despite God withholding salvation from them. God does not choose them but punishes them for not being chosen.

Truly, the indication of insanity.
---Marc on 11/21/13


Marc, you make a lot of assumptions only because you do not like for me to quote Scripture for you to show how wrong you are. Calvin is not my friend, Buddie. I hardly know anything he wrote. I am a reformer, and follow the reform view of salvation. If you want to know some truth, all you have to do is ask. Making lying comments about me, does not get you into the kingdom of God nor does it change the Truth. Your really sounding just like Kathr with a different name. If it's you kathr, stop hiding.
---Mark_V. on 11/21/13


Everyone, Calvin, MarkV's hero, wrote, "When Paul says that that which may be known of God is manifested by the creation of the world, he does not mean such a manifestation as may be comprehended by the wit of man. (Rom 1: 19)" Institutes, Book 1, Chapter 5.

MarkV, your hero changes the meaning so as to mean people cannot reason to God's existence. Paul clearly says it's possible, thus demonstrating some people can exercise free will to know God. Paul continues,"Gentiles do the things contained in the law, do not have the law, but show the law's work written on their hearts." (Rom. 2:14ff)
---Marc on 11/20/13


"This is how God made humans - to have a choice, to have free will. All throughout history men made choices." steveng

Oh really? Where in the Bible does it say so? Please go look for it and post the verses. While you're at it, I'll show you what God declared in His Word,

"Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11

There's more, "...and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" Daniel 4:35
---christan on 11/20/13


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Steven, you put no scripture on what you said. And I am not cutting you down, but reminding you that you were the one who put the definition of free will for all to see,
"Freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or divine intervention" I wrote it down.
Now you say:
"This is how God made humans - to have a choice, to have free will."
Where do you find one passage that states that God gave us free will? The ability to make choices for no cause? I remember the day you put the definition out for all to see. So all I am doing is bringing it to your attention. Yes, we make choices all the time, but always for a reason or cause.
---Mark_V. on 11/20/13


Jer29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Rom8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Pretty simple really.
---trey on 11/19/13


God does not want anyone to go to hell. He would prefer everyone would choose to follow him. Most people won't. They don't believe or they enjoy the things of this world or they were trained up not to believe. It's their choice.

Jesus would have come to earth in vain if he didn't see that there was a chance that sinners could not be saved. It is up to the individual to choose between God or the world. Why preach at all if there wasn't a chance that sinners would be saved? Jesus and the apostles would be preaching in vain with no hope of ever converting sinners.

Every human makes choices every day and repenting is one of them. If God is doing all the work of making choices for man, they would be nothing more than puppets.
---Steveng on 11/19/13


Free will is not a biblical doctrine, it is human nature. This is how God made humans - to have a choice, to have free will. All throughout history men made choices. The Israelites made choices. When they obeyed God they were rewarded, when they disobeyed God, they were punished. It was their choice.

If all are sinners as it says in the bible, then no one has a chance to ever go to heaven - not you nor I. But because God had mercy on his creation, He created a plan to bring us back into the Garden of Eden. Jesus was the way to accomplish his plan of salvation.

This is why it's very important to preach the truth to help populate God's Kingdom. In today's world, the harvest is plenty, but the workers are few.
---Steveng on 11/19/13


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Steven G, are you now denying you said the devil is a creator? Or that he is ruling on all things here in earth? or you denying when you condemned all denominations you condemned all the believers who attend those denominations? If you say no then you lie on what you say.
Second, the London confessions of faith are doctrine from Scripture. If you had studied them you would know they are from the Bible. My church follows those doctrines, not the doctrines of men that you follow, for free will is a doctrine of man not of God. There is no doctrine of free will in Scripture.
---Mark_V on 11/19/13


Mark_V. wrote: "I do not follow the philosophies of man, I follow the doctrines of Scripture."

You wrote in your 11/13/13 post that you follow the 1689 London Baptist confessions of faith, similar to the Westminster confessions of faith. Either you follow man's denominational confessions of faith or you follow God's word. Which is it? You cannot follow both.

Mark_V. wrote: "But you spend your time criticizing others, the gathering of believers, and believing the devil is creator..."

Show me my posts that I have criticized others, criticized the gathering of believers, and that I believe the devil is creator.
---Steveng on 11/18/13


"you have followed the philosophy of man... are hung up on this elect thing" shira4368

Election is a philosophy of man? Seriously? If it was, I assure you and that of your cohorts wouldn't be throwing stones at this doctrine. It would have been "accepted" with glee and pomp like your freewill. You know not what you talk.

Election was spoken of by God and then through His Son throughout the Bible, expounded by the apostle Paul in great detail throughout his epistles.

Tell us, when your "church" comes to passages that speaks of election, what do you do? Scoff at it and bypass it? Make light of it? Obviously...
---christan on 11/18/13


Mark V, Since you asked,
I don't believe it's any deep dark secret, God outlined His Purpose at the beginning.
He created this beautiful planet, with flora and fauna and then man to tend it and multiply!
Death had no part in this scenario.
Man, through sin lost the option of continuous life, but God through His Son redeemed us and the end will be as He originally purposed it! The earthly part of His universal Kingdom!(super condensed belief)
---1st_cliff on 11/18/13


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Markov, I have never ever said I was a saint.i have always said I'm just a sinner saved by grace. where do you come off saying I said Im a saint. you are getting more desperate each blog you write.
---shira4368 on 11/18/13


Shira, you call the Word of God the philosophy of men. You, who claim you are a saint, not one of the elect.
"We (the saints) give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father, "knowing, beloved brethren, your election of God." For our gospel did not come to you in Word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit with much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake" (1 Thess. 2-5). The very Word of God you want us to stop preaching. You bring more hatred to the Truth which you cannot change.
---Mark_V. on 11/18/13


Shira, you claim to be saved and make every effort to stop us for speaking of God's elect. No shame, no fear of God. Here is God's Word again,
"If God is for us, who can be against us?" You are Shira, "He who did not spare His own Son, but delievered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect?" You do Shira, "It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns?" It is you Shira, "It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us" (Rom. 8:31-34).
you condemn yourself because you should be one of the elect if you are saved.
---Mark_V. on 11/18/13


Shira 2: everybody is listening, for everyone answers with hatred. Mainly those who believe in free will. They don't like their rights taken over by God. I wonder what they are going to do in Heaven when all they do is worship God. They are going to be bored. Concerning the elect of God,
" Who shall separate us from the love of God?" you Shira are trying very hard. "Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: For Your sake we are killed all day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" (Rom. 8:35,36). But guess what Shira, "yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us" (V. 37).
---Mark_V. on 11/18/13


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markv, you have followed the philosophy of man since you have been on christianet. you and Christian are hung up on this elect thing and it is ruining your ministry if in fact you have one. no one is going to listen to you especially the unsaved. you could be instrumental in getting the lost saved but you refuse. maybe you think they aren't the elect. whatever reason, your credibility is not respected on christianet. you harp and harp on the same old stuff. its like that's all you focus on. you and Christian are the only 2 here who push the false agenda. I have never seen a Baptist believe the way you do. Im still praying for you.
---shira4368 on 11/18/13


Steven, why not ask me a Scripture question, why again you want to discredit me? You say,
"Instead of following the philosophies of man, why not say you follow the Word of God? Does one follow God through the philosophies of a certain" you say I do what you do all the time but that is not true at all. I do not follow the philosophies of man, I follow the doctrines of Scripture. If you did you would also know the Truth. But you spend your time criticizing others, the gathering of believers, and believing the devil is creator and in complete control of the whole earth. You should study the doctrines so that you will not be deceived. Do an online search for the word "deceived."
---Mark_V. on 11/18/13


Mark_V.: "I follow the 1689 London Baptist confessions of faith, similar to the Westminster confessions of faith. I hope that helps you.

Instead of following the philosphies of man, why not say you follow the Word of God? Does one follow God through the philosopies of a certain denomination?
---Steveng on 11/16/13


1Cliff, I have read many of your answers and the questions you put down and you make a lot of sense in so many. Here I asked the question of what your opinion is of God's plan. I did not want anyone cutting someone down for what they say, because many like to cause so much trouble. But can you give your opinion on how the plan came about and how it will end? I believe everyone has some kind of opinion as to what God did and what is happening now in the plan of God. I will also give my opinion of how I imagine the plan of God to be. Thanks
---Mark_V. on 11/16/13


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1Cliff, you now say,
"Mark, Actually God doesn't "plan" like humans, He purposes and acts!"
Is that not the same thing? An architect makes a plan to what he wants to build, then He acts on what he planned. In the case of God, He does not make mistakes. He doesn't have to go around fixing errors He made, He is perfect. And since He is God and knows all things, and is not guided by time, the plan is in front of Him from beginning to end, all complete. Nothing changes in His plan. What He knows already will happen, not because He knew they would happen but because He purpose them or better yet, ordained them to be.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/13


Adejunji, you say,
" Mark_V: It does help to know where you belong. It can help to reduce arguments"
nothing helps to reduce arguments. When the Truth of God's Word hits someone in the head, they will fight with everything they have to reject the Truth. You can see the evidence of the salvation many claim they have.
The fact is backwards. When we give information out, many try to pick holes on what we say. That is their nature, to look for trouble.
---Mark_V. on 11/14/13


Mark_V: It does help to know where you belong. It can help to reduce arguments.
---Adetunji on 11/14/13


Adetunji, you wanted to know what church I attended. I suppose to know what denomination I belong to. I do not belong to any denomination, I am a sinner saved by the grace of God. I attend any protestant church that teaches the Sovereignty of God. Right now I attend Bethany Baptist church, it teaches the Sovereignty of God, many other denominations also teach that. They are reformed Churches. I don't call myself a Baptist because many Baptist teach free will. And there is no such thing as a person having a will that is free. We follow the 1689 London Baptist confessions of faith, similar to the Westminster confessions of faith. I hope that helps you.
---Mark_V. on 11/13/13


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---1st_cliff: //Adetunji, That's sci-fi material! on 11/12/13 // It is my idea, it cannot be proved & God did not tell me so directly.
---Adetunji on 11/13/13


Adetunji, That's sci-fi material!
---1st_cliff on 11/12/13


I believe God has the plan to replace the fallen angels with soul of men who live and or die in His holy will.
---Adetunji on 11/12/13


Mark, Actually God doesn't "plan" like humans, He purposes and acts!
---1st_cliff on 11/11/13


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Romans 8:29 > "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Our Father created this universe as His place to give birth to and bring up children who are pleasing to Him like Jesus is.

But what about all the evil? This world, also, is God's prisoner-of-war camp for Satan and his, of his evil spirit (Ephesians 2:2) which God is processing to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone.

So, God is multi-tasking (c:
---willie_c: on 11/11/13


Mark, God says He does not change, so His plan ,as from the beginning, is to have an earth filled with people enjoying this planet and worshipping him. (without the threat of death)
He already has a hundred million angels in heaven so He doesn't need people except for those that Christ takes to rule with Him as Kings and Priests!
Simple but wonderful!
---1st_cliff on 11/11/13


Total Depravity - In our human state we cannot earn our way to heaven. "For all have sinned and fallen short..."
Atonement is intended for all - John 3:16, Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ Romans 8:35
Jesus death satisfies God's justice.
Grace is resistible - "If (a choice) you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord you will be saved" Election is conditional by statement above that all who believe in Jesus through faith will be justified.
Eternal security is conditional - apostasy is by willfull rejection of faith of the grace spoken by God to you not by an act of sin that causes separation for justification. Galatians 1:6- "...so quickly deserting him(God) who called you..."
---Scott1 on 11/11/13


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