ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Blame Sins On God

Is it possible that predestinationalists adhere to their false doctrine so that they can blame their sins on God?

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Salvation Bible Quiz
 ---jerry6593 on 11/22/13
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



Samuel, after what I posted you say:
"Considering No one I know believes the above. This is a falsehood."
Samuel you yourself believe that. That you have a will that is free. That you can come to Christ out of your own free will while lost. That you came to Christ that way. That while you were dead in trepasses and sins, spiritually separated from God, you called out to God by your own free will and He listened to you, and saved you. If you had the ability with your own free will to come to Christ while lost, you have the ability with your own free will to leave if you want, whenever you want. What you are claiming tells me is that fallen man does have a hope when the Bible says he has no hope.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/13


MarkV: Back to reality. Referring to the conundrum posited by Peter below, was Eve's sin her own fault or God's? No more irrelevant, hate-speech rants please. Just answer the question.




---jerry6593 on 11/30/13


Matthew 13:11 - He answered and said unto them , because it is given to you to Know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,but to them it is not given,
Matthew 13:12 - For Whosoever hath ,to him shall be given and he shall have more abundance, but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken a way,
Matthew 13:13 - Therefore speak in parables ,because they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand,
Matthew 13:14 - And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith by hearing ye shall hear, and not understand, and seeing ye shall see and not perceive,

{Should understand with there Heart} -
Matthew 13:15
---RICHARDC on 11/30/13


Ruben, you have classic symptoms of unbelief and a knack for putting the cart before the horse (ie ignoring what the Lord declares).

You quote a half verse like "and I will raise him up at the last day." - meaning, to be taught by God," and conveniently left out the most critical part that Christ explicitly said, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, no one will be raise unless the Father draws the sinner, to which they will be raise on the last day and be taught by God. First it's verse 44 then 45 - you totally have no sense which numbers comes first.
---christan on 11/30/13


8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us,11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.


Here is the WHOLE passage Christan butchered AGAIN. Paul was not talking about the sentence of death from Adam's sin.
---kathr4453 on 11/30/13




Christan,

2 Corinthians 1 that you just quoted...has absolutely nothing to do with a sinner placing their faith in Jesus Christ. You are saying the power of God is already in the Elect before salvation. Talk about twisted LIES. The power of his resurrection is only in those who have first been crucified with Christ.

Then that POWER as we obey lives by faith in His Power. Galatians 2:20-21.

It's a dangerous life to be a Christan. We see many condemned to death all around the world for preaching the gospel. These have NO FEAR of dying, because they know they have eternal life IN CHRIST who IS the resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 11/30/13


"Why not try actually listening to what we teach?" samuelbb7

O we heard your teachings but it just wreaks of lies against what the Bible teaches.

What your freewill actually does is place the responsibility of salvation on the "dead" man (which Christ first said was "impossible" for the man to save himself) to believe in himself first before deciding to "choose" Christ. Paul explicitly taught otherwise:

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead" 2 Corinthians 1:10 - that's why your doctrine is from the pits of hell. It's untruth!
---christan on 11/29/13


christan Ruben,

and I will raise him up at the last day." - meaning, to be taught by God,

Then please tell me how does the Father draws anyone? Verse 45 shows us how and why he draws then to Jesus! He Jesus specifies that each person has a 'choice' to"listen" to the teaching of God! Jesus is very clear that it is man who decides not to come to God ' "yet you refuse to come to me to have life(JHN 5:40) Paull also urges people to choose Jesus:

" That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead YOU will be saved " Romans 10:9-13
---Ruben on 11/29/13


You do not believe the unsaved is separated from God through his sin. That he is dead in trespasses and sins. having no hope. Unable to give himself a new heart, eyes to see and ears to hear. He is in darkness, blind. A child of wrath, doing the desires of his father the devil.
In your minds you have excepted the false doctrine of "free will" that gives you guys hope. So now all you have to do is exercise your own free will and you can come to Christ without even hearing the gospel, or a new heart. Mark_V.

Considering No one I know believes the above. This is a falsehood. You have created a false doctrine then fight against what we do not believe. Why not try actually listening to what we teach?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/29/13


free will
2.(philosophy) The ability to choose one's actions, or determine what reasons are acceptable motivation for actions, without predestination, fate etc.

Now since this is what I mean by free will then you should accept that and not say I do not mean what I am saying.

Now Christian yes we are all lost. So yes it take s supernatural act for GOD to save anyone. As pointed out GOD wants all to be saved. See 1 Tim. 2.

Do you Mark and Christian not Accept TULIP?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/29/13




I do find it interesting that Calvinists only testify of themselves. Jesus testified of the Father, and Jesus being THE ELECT, never once boasted He was. The Holy Spirit testified of Jesus, as Jesus testified of the Father. But the only testimony of a Calvinist is his own words. And just because they claim to be the elect, doesn't make it so. Jesus did miracles, testifying of who He is, and the Apostles likewise proving to others they were God's elect Apostles, and we today by being made perfect in love, are Christ's hands and feet today continuing His ministry on earth. Our life is an open book to be read by all. It doesn't read.....ME ME I CAN'T BELIEVE GOD PICKED ME.

these poor souls...blind leading the blind.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/13


Ruben, your freewill is like a swiss cheese, full of holes. You quoted John 6:45 to justify your theory that God will draw you after you have chosen Him. Where in the Bible says this is so? Do you even know what must first happen before He teaches you as stated in 45?

That's why we have 44 (which explicitly contradicts freewill) - "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." - meaning, to be taught by God, 44 MUST first happen and 45 is the cause and effect of the drawing that "they shall be all taught of God".

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."
---christan on 11/29/13


Romans 3:11
---christan on 11/29/13


So exactly who are those who have listened and learned of the Father? Did they understand or not? So are these guys saying they are not included in the "NONE" that understandeth? And exactly what do they claim they learned and understood?

Why would anyone be drawn to Jesus without understanding of who He is/was. We see many in John 6 who were drawn/ came to Jesus. Coming to Jesus doesn't save you....as they all found out the hard way. Once you come, then a decision has to be made, just like those found out....to eat His flesh and drink his Blood. That was a HARD saying they could not understand. And we see Markv and Christan don't understand it either.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/13


No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:

These words of assurance and promise with regards to salvation are from Christ. You don't seem to believe in His words. christan

The Passage says draw him. I was drawn to JESUS and GOD by their love.

You teach GOD forced them by His power. Not the same thing.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/29/13


Jerry , ( one that desires sin) we don't have to give into that ,

The Problem you got with that is God restrains sin in Man's life, How do you know you are keeping yourself from sin or God is not letting it happen ?
---RICHARDC on 11/29/13


Chistan: Your last comment is faulty, it shows your ignorance of the Bible & you condemned Ruben too fast. Cornelius in book of Acts is a good example of what Ruben talked about. Do you know about that?
---Adetunji on 11/29/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


Jerry, the problem most of you find youselves in is a false assurance. You do not believe the unsaved is separated from God through his sin. That he is dead in trespasses and sins. having no hope. Not one little bit of hope. Unable to give himself a new heart, eyes to see and ears to hear. He is in darkness, blind. A child of wrath, doing the desires of his father the devil. How can he desire Christ? Not possible.
In your minds you have excepted the false doctrine of "free will" that gives you guys hope. So now all you have to do is exercise your own free will and you can come to Christ without even hearing the gospel, or a new heart. And if you want to leave Christ, all you have to do is exercise your own free will and leave.
---Mark_V. on 11/29/13


Peter: You bring up an interesting point. Did Eve (and then Adam) sin by their own FREE WILL after being enticed by the serpent, or did God (apparently in partnership with Satan) CAUSE or FORCE them to commit sin contrary to His stated command? I say it was Adam and Eve's own CHOICE to sin - not God's fault that they sinned.

Further, I don't subscribe to the concept of original sin - that I sin genetically. Although we may have inherited a sinful nature (one that desires sin) we don't have to give in to it. The CHOICE is ours to make, and the power of God's grace is available to us to keep from sinning.




---jerry6593 on 11/29/13


christan*
why would He even need to draw you, since you have already drawn yourself to Him without Him?

This is where your doctrine has you blind:

6:45 "Everyone who Listens to the Father and LEARNS from him comes to me"


christan* You say things that are not even in the Bible, even after the He declared,

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:11

First Paul is quoting Psalm 14 read it.

Second we are suppose to be seeking him as scripture tell us:

Matt 6:33" SEEK first the kingdom of God"

Matt 7:7-8 " Seek and you will find him"

Plus many many more about seeketh after him!
---Ruben on 11/29/13


Ezekiel 36:26 - A New Heart also will I give you, and a New Spirit will I put within you ,...
Eze 36:27 - I will put my Spirit with you, and cause to walk in my Statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them,
---RICHARDC on 11/28/13

It is notable to some, whom this is prophecied too in both Eze and the fulfillment noted in Hebrews.

Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, write them in their hearts: I will be to them a God, they shall be to me a people:
Eze 37:6 I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, ....

Eze_44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD, No stranger, ....
---Trav on 11/29/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


John 15:1_2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."
John 15:7 "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you."
John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
---Nana on 11/29/13


James 1:13-15
Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their OWN evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

This tells me we have our own will. That it can be tempted and when we follow that, it is what leads us to sin. So there is God's will (which we are supposed to follow). Then there is our own will (which aren't supposed to follow)
No robots here.
---g on 11/29/13


"Those who did the Father will, he drawns them to Jesus!" Ruben

Seems like you have your cart before the horse. If you can already by your own freewill do the will of the Father (which requires a miracle performed by God), why would He even need to draw you, since you have already drawn yourself to Him without Him?

And where does it even say, God draws you because you did His will? You say things that are not even in the Bible, even after the He declared,

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:11
---christan on 11/29/13


Peter, please read:

"Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it. Isaiah 46:11 - "allow"? I think not...

"...and He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou?" Daniel 4:35

Paul declared, "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?" Romans 9:19,20
---christan on 11/28/13


Send a Free Funny Thank You Ecard


christan *"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - what do you think Jesus meant when He declared "I profess unto them, I never knew you"?

They never did the will of the Father:

" But only he who does the will of my Father"v 21

christan *Isn't this then in line with what He spoke in John 6:65, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." Doesn't it mean then that those who went to Him weren't given to Him by His Father? In short, not loved and elected by the Father?

Do tell your version...

Those who did the Father will, he drawns them to Jesus!
---Ruben on 11/28/13


Jerry - Must be Force - ( I don't Know if force is the right word but are change ! )

Ezekiel 36:26 - A New Heart also will I give you, and a New Spirit will I put within you , I will take the Stoney Heart out of your Flesh, and I will give you a Heart of flesh,
Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my Spirit with you, and cause to walk in my Statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them,

2 Corinthains 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things have passed away: behold , all things are become a new,
---RICHARDC on 11/28/13


jerry6593 on 11/28/13: Your comment to Christan excludes on thing, which you (and Christan) need to consider. I am not sure of the answer, but I can make a guess.

Our sin is the result of the first sin of Adam and Eve.

As a result, we must ask why Adam and Eve sinned - I have not found any verses, like what Christan demonstrates in Acts 4:27-8. As a result, I take that the sin of Adam and Eve was only due to the temptation of the serpent.

But there I cannot be sure - clearly God allowed them to sin, but God, I take it, did not MAKE them sin - they were tempted by the serpent.

But predestination, to really ask what it does and does not mean, is a more complex thing than most people think
---Peter on 11/28/13


Christan: Your understanding of predestination is corrupt and nothing short of erroneous.

If there is no FREE will, as you allege, then there must be FORCED (or ROBOTIC) will. There is NO third category. Do you really believe that God FORCES people to sin? If you do, then you believe that your sin is God's fault and not yours.




---jerry6593 on 11/28/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


Philippians 3:9 - And being found in him,not having mine own righteousness , which is of the law, but though the Faith of Christ, The righteousness which is of God by Faith,

Galatains 2:21 - I do not frustrate the grace of God, if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ die in vain,
---RICHARDC on 11/28/13


John 6:44-45. "No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets. And they shall ALL be taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard and has learned of the Father comes unto me."

Sounds like we have to be willing to do 3 things, hear, learn and believe.

John 6:40 "And this is the WILL of Him who sent me, that EVERYONE who sees the Son, and believes Him, may have everlasting life and I will raise him up at the last day."
---barb on 11/28/13


Matthew 12:37 "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Romans 2:13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Matthew 7:23 "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
---Nana on 11/27/13


"Predestination, as used in the Bible, does not mean the forced robotic compliance" jerry6593

Apparently that's your own convoluted conclusion that the man is a "forced robotic compliance". Neither MarkV nor myself or the writers of the Bible even uttered such words. Your understanding of predestination is corrupt and nothing short of erroneous.

The Scriptures says what it says about the execution of Christ, "both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." Acts 4:27,28 - that it was God's plan all along how it was going down.
---christan on 11/27/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


Adetunji, you don't even know what Matthew 7:21-23 is teaching, do you? You seriously think it's all about freewill? Have you read verse 23?

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - what do you think Jesus meant when He declared "I profess unto them, I never knew you"?

Isn't this then in line with what He spoke in John 6:65, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." Doesn't it mean then that those who went to Him weren't given to Him by His Father? In short, not loved and elected by the Father?

Do tell your version...
---christan on 11/28/13


Adetungi : What anyone does here on Earth determines his / her destination -

The problem you have with that, is you can not be saved by any Works - then it is no longer grace ,

Galatians 2:16- Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by works of the law, for by works of the law shall no flesh be justified ,

Ephesians 2:9 - Not by works, lest any man should Boast,
---RICHARDC on 11/27/13


Apology: In my previous comment I quoted Matt.7:21 but wrote Matt.7:24 in error.
---Adetunji on 11/27/13


Samuel, you tell Richard:
" Notice it says those he foreknew. Well GOD knows who will choose to be saved and who will choose to be lost."

It does not mean that at all Samuel. Because (Eph. 1:4,5)
"Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,.." Those He knew would be saved, are those chosen before the foundation of the World. He did not chose them because He saw that they would believe. He chose them
"...according to the good pleasure of His will" (Eph. 1:5). Remember (Matt. 7:22-23)
"..then I will declare to them I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness" Scripture interprets Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


Steven, you do say a lot of stuff to later deny you ever said it at all. But that is ok. I am not here to judge you personally but judge what you say if it is against the Truth. Satan is not in complete control of all the earth. Satan did not create all the churches today. People did. What many people are doing is the desires of their father. He creates nothing but he is their god. Notice god with a little "g."

So in answer to the question above, man sin because they want to sin, God does not cause them to sin, all God does is allow them to. He could stop them if He so chose to stop them, but doesn't.
He is the restrainer of sin.
No one is as bad as they could be only because of God.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/13


Christian: The Lord Jesus said,"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven , but he that DOETH the will of my Father ... Matt.7:24. Please read also the parable of the 2 sons Matt.21:28-32. Here the LJ taught also that those that repent, believe & does the will of God will be saved. What anyone does here on earth determines his/her eternal Destination. The All mighty & merciful God didn't pre-choose any human being for hell.
---Adetunji on 11/27/13


Predestination, as used in the Bible, does not mean the forced robotic compliance that MarkV and Christan preach. It rather refers to God's FOREKNOWLEDGE of future events and to his PURPOSE or PLAN for mankind. His original desire was for ALL mankind to willingly (of their own FREE WIILL) serve Him out of love. The fact that sin gained a foothold here, and most CHOOSE not to OBEY His Ten Commandments is NOT God's fault! He didn't predestinate sin as MarkV and Christan would have us believe.

If I sin because of God's actions then it's HIS fault, but if of my own FREE WILL, it's MY fault. If there were NO FREE WILL, then .....



---jerry6593 on 11/27/13


Jerry, there is the testimony of a woman, who years ago was an immoral woman. Through a life of immorality, somehow her husband was killed, and she felt responsible for his death. So she found solace in a reformed church who eased her conscience and told her everything was God's will from the beginning, including her part in her husbands death. That God never wanted him, but wanted her, and his death was just a tool to make her realize she was one of the elect. Guilt is a horrible thing to carry. It looks as though she found a way to rationalize away the guilt, rather than experiencing that true forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 11/27/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Furniture


Jerry, if you had read the Bible you would know that God created the doctrine of Predestination. You do not like that God chose some and not others. He did not create the doctrine so that you would like it, He liked it. Here let me help you:
"Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, "according to the good pleasure of His will"
You see, God did it according to the good pleasure of His will. Not your free will, or whether anyone liked it or not.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/13


Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that does not believe shall be damned. - a choice.
---Steveng on 11/25/13

Believing cannot be a choice. A proposition either makes believable sense or it does not. Whole nations have heard Israels message for repentance for a couple of thousand of years now. Only a handful understanding....accepting...believing are considered Christian. These nations are rapidly being undermined with pagan/other religions.
Call was to the Sheep....sheep/Israel understand the message..... not watered down. The "sheep" have accepted for 2000 years.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 11/27/13


"No Richardc it does not mean that GOD causes all who are saved to be saved." samuelbb7

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
John 6:37,44, 10:28-30

These words of assurance and promise with regards to salvation are from Christ. You don't seem to believe in His words.
---christan on 11/27/13


Mark_V. wrote: "Steven, I have not heard you preach the gospel one time."

I tried preaching (paraphrasing the verses), but you did not believe. Then I tried writing verse numbers and you still don't believe. Like Satan, you are always twisting scripture and other people's posts.

Mark_V. wrote: "You send people to the internet,"

I send people to a searchable KJV bible on the internet (biblegateway).

Mark_V. wrote: "condemn all the gathering of saints,"

Remember the verse "where two or more are gathered..."

Why do you continually lie?
---Steveng on 11/26/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Laptops


Mark_V. wrote: "Steven, I have not heard you preach the gospel one time. Not once. You send people to the internet, condemn all the gathering of saints, suggest the chapters and verse be taken out to read the Bible better. And preach that Satan is in complete control in the earth. Where is your gospel?"

Now, who is not preaching, but, as usual, criticizing.

Mark_V. wrote: "Kathr, has done a lot of talking and you guys are following the blind."

My belief set a foundation way before Kathr was even born and by NOT reading man's knowledge of the bible (the concordances, the plethora of author's opinions, and other christian reference books) - only the bible which I meditate on every day.
---Steveng on 11/26/13


Rev 12:10 ...Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
2Pet 2:11-12 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not, and shall utterly perish in their own corruption,
Acts 5:38-39 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it, lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
---micha9344 on 11/26/13


Adetunji, may answers also are not to mock you or anyone else who believe in free will. I answer Kathr differently. I have to, not by choice. I preach God's Sovereignty so that if you and others are really searching for Truth, you will read Scripture to see if what I say is from the Word of God. I don't expect any amens but opposition to God right. How can they since for many years they have believed they came to Christ out of their own free will. But such a God cannot be found out by searching. He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit. I still write it down, in the hope God opens their hearts, so that they know how they were truely saved, if they are in fact saved.
If not, it won't matter at all.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/13


No Richardc it does not mean that GOD causes all who are saved to be saved. Notice it says those he foreknew. Well GOD knows who will choose to be saved and who will choose to be lost.

Those who he knows will choose to be saved He predestines them to be like JESUS. Loving and caring for others.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/26/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Lawyer


Adetunji, one thing a Christian never does is to behave like a hypocrite and that's because it's a sin. You explicitly said:

"I see something wrong with your doctrine... Paul's words & use it as your tool to interprete the Bible, instead of using God/Jesus ' words to understand life & all things. Your doctrine is an UPSIDE DOWN house in my opinion."

Was Paul not an apostle of Christ? Was he not a chosen vessel of God to teach the Gentiles? Was Paul not speaking God's words to us? And you have the audacity to turn around to make yourself sound noble by saying "My last comment was not to mock you but the expression of truth that I know."

That to me is HYPOCRISY of the highest level.
---christan on 11/26/13


Christan: My last comment was not to mock you but the expression of truth that I know. May the light of the truth in the word of God/Jesus that we have shared with you on ChristiaNet touch you.
---Adetunji on 11/26/13


Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, who are the called according to his purpose
Romans 8:29 - For whom he foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his son, that he might be the first born among many brethren,
Roman 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he called, and who he called, them he Justified, them he also glorified,

( Karthr : is this verse not saying the Called are predestinate , If not explain ? )
---RICHARDC on 11/26/13


Kathr, you say, "whining and complaining about everyone here, with nothing more to say then ragging on others."
I have not cried anyone here, I pray for everyone. I preach the Truth, since I do not know what God is going to do with it,
Then say:
"Maybe it 's time you take some time off Markv."
You would love to never hear the Truth. I was destined to be that way for now.
Then say: "After all, you according to your own belief, know we only do as God has willed." You are right where God wants you to be. But I do not know if He wills for you to come to Christ with faith this time. I do not know what God has in store for anyone. I'm not God. So take up your complaining with God.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


It seems like Markv is a cry baby lately whining and complaining about everyone here, with nothing more to say then ragging on others.

Maybe it 's time you take some time off Markv. After all, you according to your own belief, know we only do as God has willed. So take up your complaining with God.

You make such ridiculous statements
That others are following me....that statement only shows envy on your part. You want people to follow you, correct.

We don't follow man, like you have , we follow Christ Jesus.

Grow up.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/13


Steven, you are correct of course but was making light of the ones here who do not know the truth. I do the same as you but it still falls on deaf ears.
---shira4368 on 11/26/13


Steven, I have not heard you preach the gospel one time. Not once. You send people to the internet, condemn all the gathering of saints, suggest the chapters and verse be taken out to read the Bible better. And preach that Satan is in complete control in the earth. Where is your gospel? Kathr, has done a lot of talking and you guys are following the blind.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/13


The CHURCH of the FIRSTBORN. Those who will be glorified together with Christ! to share in HIS glory. Some say that is blasphemy and God will not share His Glory with another. Oh, but those IN Christ who are HIS body His bride HE will. Those who suffer with Him will also be glorified together with Him. That I may KNOW Him, and the POWER of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His Suffering, being made CONFORMABLE TO his death SO THAT ............Firstborn among "many brethren" is that we too have been begotten through Jesus Christ, whereas He can now call US brethren.

Firstborn means a place of preeminence. Meaning the Church has preeminence. This is what God predestined.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


shira4368 wrote: "Stephen, you are wasting your time trying to explain choices and free will."

I will not "ceased to warn every one night and day with tears." I'll exhort anyone and am being patient toward all men that I may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. I will not give up if it means their eternal life depends upon it.

There are many warnings in the bible about christians falling away from the faith. One must have had faith to begin with to fall away from it. It is the choice of man to stay on the path towards the Kingdom or fall away from the path.
---Steveng on 11/25/13


Yes, a false predestinationalist might blame his or her sinning on God.

But I find that Biblical predestination includes how our Father will conform us to the image of Jesus (Romans 8:29. And we see how, because of love perfected in us > "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17) So, this is included in our destiny as children of God. So, we are not excused to keep on sinning, but destined to become in His love "as He is" - - - "in this world."

But I don't hear some number of "free will" people talking about how they are becoming because of being conformed to the image of Jesus. Why not choose this??
---willie_c: on 11/25/13


Ro8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
- In other words, God predestinated his children to be glorified.

Romans 8:30 tells us that the ones he predestinated he effectually called, and those are also the ones he justified, and they are the ones he will glorify.

Eph 1:5 Tells us he predestinated us to be adopted into his family and that it was done according to his will.

Eph 1:11 Our being predestinated was according his will and that through Christ we have an inheritance.

In none of this can we blame God for sin. Predestination has to do with God's people and their final state not with their actions.
---trey on 11/25/13


Amen Kathryn, preach it girl, oh I know you aren't really a preacher but you are telling the truth. I dare say it falls on deaf ears. You try to tell just like I do but the term "I once was blind but now I see" should be I once was blind but now I'm still blind"
---shira4368 on 11/25/13


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


Colossians 1:18 - And the head of the body , the church, who in the beginning , the first born from the dead, that in all things he might have preeminence.

Hebrews 12:23 - To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,and to God the judge of all ,and to the spirit of men made perfect,
---RICHARDC on 11/25/13


Romans 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Herein is what Calvinists do not understand....THAT HE MIGHT BE THE FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren.

So first, what does "FIRSTBORN" mean? Without that understanding the first part of the sentence is INCOMPLETE and means NOTHING without it. A Calvinist can no more tell you WHO the first born is and what it means rendering their WHOLE understanding UPSIDE DOWN.....

"WHO" is the firstborn among MANY brethren???
---kathr4453 on 11/25/13


RICHARDC, my sincere apologies, please forgive me for misunderstanding you.



"Your doctrine is an UPSIDE DOWN house in my opinion." Adentunji

And I'm still waiting for you to contradict my understanding with verses from the Holy Bible. Which I know you're unable to do. So, all you do is just throw stones without substance, without verses to support your accusations, just like your father. But it's ok and that's because even your slandering and stone throwing has a divine purpose.
---christan on 11/25/13


Predestination is not a false teaching. CALVIN's gnostic theory of what predestination is IS FALSE teaching.

Since Calvin had no clue what being IN Christ means to begin with! and Markv here has clearly shown his ignorance on the subject, through Calvin's teaching of Calvin's own ignorance, they will never grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, but Calvin's limited worldly gnostic knowledge only.

Markv makes comments like " in my ("honest") OPINION," yet has not one honest bone in his body.

Paul taught out of his own personal suffering as God revealed to Paul through the fellowship of His Sufferings.....cheap/ opinion????? PRICELESS TRUTH more like it.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


Sinless perfection? Let God be our judge as it should, is, and better be.

John 8:29 "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him."
Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

What about David who is constantly brough out in mocking conversation?

1 Kings 15:5 "Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite."
---Nana on 11/25/13


Chritan: I see something wrong with your doctrine. You pick your choice of A. Paul's words & use it as your tool to interprete the Bible, instead of using God/Jesus ' words to understand life & all things. God/Jesus is Master, Paul is one of His servants. God/Jesus is foundation on which Abraham - John are built. Your doctrine is an UPSIDE DOWN house in my opinion.
---Adetunji on 11/25/13


Shira, you are correct it is impossible for anyone to explain "free will" because "Free will" is a self-contradictory concept. I figured that many here would have known that, and the reason why those words are not in scripture.
The writers of Scripture know the concept of
Cause and Effect" they know every time a person's will makes a choice there is always a cause for making that choice. The will is not free. I am not the most educated here but I know the concept of cause and effect. Free will is a self contradictory concept.
---Mark_V. on 11/25/13


Stephen, you are wasting your time trying to explain choices and free will.
---shira4368 on 11/24/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


Steveng , That is man choice -----

There is no things as sinless perfection in this world - even when someone is born again, sin can still happen, there still in the flesh - Just look at David - And he's beloved of God,

Galatians 5:17 - For the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary the one to the other, so that ye cannot do the things that ye would,
---RICHARDC on 11/24/13


christan wrote: "Really? Is that what is taught in the Bible about what the law was for? To test that you have a choice to obey or not obey? Hmmm... "

ALL laws, both God's and man's, were put in place. One would have the ability to either keep the law or break it. That is man's choice. Speed limits are set in place. You can either obey the speed limit or break it and suffer the consequences when caught. God did not break the law nor did he make you break the law. You broke it on your own free will.
---Steveng on 11/24/13


Christan: You got me wrong on that one, or I should of explain more - That's why I wrote That ! The Blogger here is saying Predestination is is false doctrine , and yet the word is in the Bible four times ! The blogger here is saying this like the word is not in the Bible !
---RICHARDC on 11/24/13


"The Word Predestinated is written in the Bible four Times !" RICHARDC

And yet you cannot even believe that God has predestined everything though it's mentioned by word "four times" and countless times with respect to what predestination even means.

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure." Isaiah 46:10

And what about your "freewill of man" choosing to be saved, a BIG FAT ZERO of mention in the Bible! Yet you claim it's there. Where?
---christan on 11/24/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


"God gave laws to give man a choice to obey or not obey." steveng

Really? Is that what is taught in the Bible about what the law was for? To test that you have a choice to obey or not obey? Hmmm... let's see,

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN."
Romans 3:19,20

Well, Paul just called your understanding of the law, erroneous.
---christan on 11/23/13


Predestinationalists adhere to their False doctrine ??????????????????????

The Word Predestinated is written in the Bible four Times !
Romans 8:29 - Romans 8:30 - Ephesians 1:5 - Ephesians 1:11

Steveng 11/23 - Man make the decision of obey him or not ,

Then you have a gospel were your saved by your Obedience - and that's a Work and you can not be saved by any Works of righteousness .
---RICHARDC on 11/23/13


Steven, do you not realize keeping the whole law is in vain? you said,
"Why have laws? God's laws would be in vain if there wasn't man's free will to obey or not obey." No matter how much free will you believe you have you will never keep the whole law perfect. So yes, it is impossible. What did God say?
Break one you have broken them all. No one is without sin. No one can keep the whole law perfect. All are sinners in the face of God because all sin and fall short of the glory of God. And if you know that Jesus is God, you know only He is perfect.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/13


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.