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Do Animals Have Souls

Did animals also lose eternal life because of Adam's sin?

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 ---1st_cliff on 11/27/13
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Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knows the spirit of man that goes upward,and the spirit of the beast that goes downward to the earth. From this verse we see that mans spirit and the animals spirit are two different kinds of spirits. There is a verse in the Old Testament that the spirit of man is the eye of God searching out the inner most parts of his being(not sure where that is if someone knows please share). God needs to keep tabs on man so that this is one way He does it, This method isn't needed to do animals the same way for nothing they do is sinful. An animal may have the soul/spirit of the breed but not in the same sense as the man.
---Darlene_1 on 12/18/13


Christian, **Luke 16.19-31 was an account written by the apostle Luke**
Wrong! Luke was not an apostle!
**Mind you. it was Christ who spoke** Tell me how you know this! (Luke never met Christ)
Hypocrite? (an attempt by a feeble mind to express itself forcefully)
The mud you sling doesn't stick!
---1st_cliff on 12/18/13


"First many scholars label this a Parable." samuelbb7

What a hypocrite you truly are. Luke 16:19-31 was an account written by the apostle Luke with regards to what Christ was teaching. Mind you, it was Christ who spoke.

And here you are, telling me you believe what the scholars of yours say that it's a parable when there's not a mention at the start of this account from verse 19 to 31 that Jesus Christ even said or told us that it was a parable He was speaking about.

That's hypocrisy 100% to the core, i.e. believing in your scholars and not Jesus Christ.
---christan on 12/18/13


So let's leave out ecclesiastes and Luke 16. How many times did Jesus say the soul/spirit goes anywhere as soon as the body dies? Most of His parables talk about the end of the age when rewards are given.
---therese on 12/17/13


"This is no more than your opinion! We are all "under the sun"!"-1st_cliff on 12/16/13
Of course, we are all physically here. but there is a spiritual aspect as well that the preacher only hints at. His initial conclusions came by looking horizontally, what man is and what he is doing. Only at the end does he give any Vertical credit, but even that is just a physical response.
Honestly, trying to disprove spiritual matters by going to Ecclesiastes is like trying to find life on the moon. It is just not there.
---micha9344 on 12/17/13




Christian, Fill me in on what's missing here,
Why do you believe Jesus spoke this story?
Scripture says at the mouth of 2 witnesses a matter will stand! Where's the 2nd witness?
This is what your belief stands on- "because Luke said so" is this the strength of your argument?
Try that argument in a court of law and be laughed out!
---1st_cliff on 12/17/13


Christan, Nephesh, usually translated soul is used in Genesis to refer to creatures in 2:19 And whatever Adam called each LIVING CREATURE that was its name.
---therese on 12/17/13


Three people were explicitly mentioned, the rich man, Lazarus and Abraham. Why would Christ even mention Abraham in a parable if the account is a parable?

If it's a parable as you say so, why not tell us what the parable is teaching us? Christian

First many scholars label this a Parable. Second Lazarus was pointing forward to when Jesus would raise Lazarus. Also condemn them for not believing even then. Abraham is mentioned to refer to a common belief of the time.

That the rich do not automatically go to heaven and the poor are not cursed by GOD. Which many still teach.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/17/13


"Too simple ? Paganism makes it complicated!" 1stCliff

That's precisely what you're doing, practicing what you're preaching about paganism.

You have failed miserably to give a satisfactory explanation of Luke 16:19-31 by Jesus Christ. Three people were explicitly mentioned, the rich man, Lazarus and Abraham. Why would Christ even mention Abraham in a parable if the account is a parable?

If it's a parable as you say so, why not tell us what the parable is teaching us? All you seem to do is just say it's a parable and draw blanks to the parable. Talk about "opinions", isn't your understanding also just an "opinion"?. Humbug!
---christan on 12/17/13


Micha, **27 verses in Ecclesiastes mention "under the sun", this is all about the physical realm**
This is no more than your opinion! We are all "under the sun"!
**and the spirit (ruwach) will return to God who gave it** Eccl.12.7
"God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath (ruwach) of life..." at Adam's death 930 years after that breath (ruwach) returned to God who gave it! No mysterious boogy-man left Adam's body ,just his breath! as all of mankind!
We/they must await resurrection!
Too simple ? Paganism makes it complicated!
---1st_cliff on 12/16/13




samuelbb7, say what? Unbelievable! At what point in the Holy Bible are we told that "Soul is used to refer to animals."???

One thing's for sure, I do know that the Bible explicitly declares, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7 - according to you, Adam then must have been an animal when God created him.

Your problem stems from the very fact that you're trying to show-off your translation skills from Hebrew or Greek to English, when all it has demonstrated is "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"
---christan on 12/16/13


Strong's H5315 - nephesh

I.soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion.

Soul is used to refer to animals. But JESUS did not die for animals. Only humans because we male and female are made in the image of GOD.

The word Spirit is from
Strong's H5397 - n & #277,shamah
n & #277,shamah

Part of Speech feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology) (H5395)

TWOT Reference: 1433a

Outline of Biblical Usage

I. breath, spirit
A. breath (of God)
B. breath (of man)
C. every breathing thing
D. spirit (of man)

The problem is that many people use their opinions as Bible truth. We need to use scripture.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/16/13


27 verses in Ecclesiastes mention "under the sun."
This is all about the physical realm.
16 verses mention "spirit" (KJV).
2 verses in NASB mention spirit.
Ecc 7:8 The end of a matter is better than its beginning,
Patience of spirit is better than haughtiness of spirit.
Ecc 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit (ruwach) will return to God who gave it.
Is the Spirit (Ruwach) of God a living being?
There is only one tune coming from the Bible. Those that have ears let them hear.
---micha9344 on 12/16/13


Jesus offers the restoration of immortality to humans, which was lost when Adam and Eve sinned, to be given when Jesus returns.

No information is clearly given about animals except it seems there was to be no death at all before Adam and Eve sinned.

I believe God will create new perfect animals in the new earth, animals like we know and see now.

Jesus DEFINITELY DID NOT die to offer animals immortality.
---therese on 12/16/13


1stCliff, I do humbly submit to you that you are indeed the Champion of the Fiddlers Association when coming to fiddle with the Scripture. An honor never to be taken away by any here. Kudos.
---christan on 12/15/13


Christian, It's a contest of who's the best fiddler ,don't worry , you rank up there with the best of them!
---1st_cliff on 12/15/13


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1Peter3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The arc had many animals but only 8 of them were homo sapiens.
Correct Answer: NO!!!
---trey on 12/15/13


"I once heard a guy say "The bible is like an old fiddle, you can make it play any old tune" 1stCliff

And that's what the Holy Bible aka the Word of God is to you - "an old fiddle, you can make it play any old tune"? Good for you, continue fiddling away.

Fyi, for the Christian, the Word of God is "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 but I wouldn't expect you to believe Christ, because He also said, "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

Now you know why the Bible is just a fiddle to you?
---christan on 12/14/13


Micha, I once heard a guy say "The bible is like an old fiddle, you can make it play any old tune"
IE " Under the sun, physical"
Where are you , over the sun? Every person on earth is "under the sun" and that's what it means "every one"!
"I said in my heart"
The brain does all the thinking (the heart is metaphor for the seat of emotion!) Hearts pump blood!
Who knows? what are we ?robots?
A classic example of trying to "fix" scripture to coincide with one's erroneous beliefs!
---1st_clif on 12/14/13


"And if a soul sin... Or if a soul touch any unclean thing... And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the Lord, though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity." Leviticus 5:1-19

Do you think God was referring to the animal kingdom when He underlined the condition of sinning against Him? Notice the peculiarity of the part that sins against God - "the soul". Do animals sin against God?

Scriptures mention no less than 400 times about the soul and they were very specific to only man. Not a verse was dedicated to the animals. Ever wondered why? How about starting with Christ, did He come as an animal or a man?
---christan on 12/13/13


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I do not have the reference at hand but I look up the word for spirit from the Old testament in Strongs and this is part of it's definition.

ruwach I.wind, breath, mind, spirit
D.spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)

Nephesh or soul is also used of animals.


Gen 1:24

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Soul and spirit are used for animals also.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/13/13


Some things worth mentioning about Ecc 3.
V16 "under the sun"-the physical.
v17,18 "I said in my heart"-human reasoning.
v21 "who knows"--ruling out the spiritual
v22 "nothing better that a man should rejoice in his works"--wrong conclusions by just looking at the physical.
---micha9344 on 12/13/13


therese, you're a perfect example of one that corrupts the Word of God. And here's why, the verse does not say "(or SPIRIT-its the same Hebrew word)", those are your own convoluted words wedgied into the verse.

The keywords to Ecclesiastes 3:19 are "befalleth, dieth, one breath" - meaning that the fall of man affected even the animals (for they too breath like man) and all will die. To say that animals have spirit like mankind is to say that the animals were created in the "image of God", and that's utterly ridiculous and erroneous!

The Word NEVER teaches that animals have soul and spirit like the man, NEVER.
---christan on 12/13/13


Christan. I quoted the verse which you evidently didn't look up. Ecclestiastes 3:19
FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO THE SONS OF MEN ALSO HAPPENS TO BEASTS. ONE THING BEFALLS THEM: AS SURELY AS ONE DIES, SO DIES THE OTHER.SURELY THEY ALL HAVE ONE BREATH (or SPIRIT-its the same Hebrew word) MAN HAS NO ADVANTAGE OVER BEASTS.
---therese on 12/13/13


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When you run across an animal ask him or her if they are saved.
---shira4368 on 12/13/13


"The bible speaks of man and animals having the same breath or spirit" therese

I sure would like to see the verse that supports your comment above. The man and animal may be made of the same material but that's where the similarity stops.

Scripture doesn't say God breathed into the animals and they became a living soul nor did God at anytime communicated with the animals like He did with mankind.

The law of God was specifically given only to the man, that's why we are called sinners, not the animals. Because of the fall of man in the garden, everything else of God's creation was subject to the fall (Romans 8:20-22) - see the devastation of the fall?
---christan on 12/12/13


The bible speaks of man and animals having the same breath or spirit (same Hebrew word) that returns to God when that person or animal dies. Eccl 3:19, Eccl 12:7. Note: the next verses (Eccle 3:20,21) do NOT say the spirit of man goes up and the spirit of animals go down. It asks, who knows IF that happens. No answer is given.

If mans fate was to die, nothing surviving, I believe this was so for the animals too. Its only what Jesus has done for man, that those who accept His sacrifice can look forward to immortality.
Animals have suffered because of sin, suffering diseases and injury. I believe God will create new perfect vegetarian animals. Isaiah 11:6-7
---therese on 12/12/13


"No one saw Christ talking to Paul, no one heard the conversation." 1stCliff

"And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Acts 9:4,5

"...and be not faithless, but believing blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:27,29
---christan on 12/11/13


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Micha, Dr.Luke , Paul's obvious convert and physician, wrote Acts around 60 AD , Pentecost is history ,and was well attended.
Is his writing questionable?
Both Paul and Luke state that Jesus said "keep doing this in remembrance.." at the last supper, neither one was there and no other bible writer (even the ones that were there) affirms this! Draw your own conclusions!
---1st_cliff on 12/11/13


Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
"...no one heard the conversation..."-1st_cliff on 12/10/13
Act 9:10-11 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias, and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
--Ananias must be in on this phariseeical conspiracy as well.
--Of course, if Acts never happened, since Dr. Luke, the non-Jew, wrote it, then the day at Pentecost never happened either.
---micha9344 on 12/11/13


Christian, No one saw Christ talking to Paul, no one heard the conversation. Jesus talked to Saul/Paul ? YA RIGHT!
---1st_cliff on 12/10/13


""If I told you Christ talked to me today would you believe it? especially if no one else heard it!" 1stCliff

Why on earth would Christ want to specifically speak to you today after we have the complete Holy Bible?

When Christ appeared to the apostle Paul, the epistles were yet to be even written. So there was a purpose to why Christ appeared and spoke to Paul, to reveal all the happenings in the OT and God's plan in the salvation of the sinner.

You claim that Christ "spoke" to you, so what does He have to say to you that He hasn't said in the Holy Bible from Genesis to Revelation?
---christan on 12/11/13


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1Cliff, you asked Christan,
"If I told you Christ talked to me today would you believe it? especially if no one else heard it!
---1st_cliff on 12/8/13"


I would not believe you at all. You do not believe in the Word of God, and we are told God speaks to us through the Word. So no, I don't believe anyone would believe you. If He spoke to you through His word, you would not hear at all. He has to open your ears so that you can hear.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/13


"How many people did Christ talk to personally after His ascension ??" 1stCliff

According to the account in the Holy Bible, after His death and resurrection, He appeared to only the apostle Paul.


"If I told you Christ talked to me today would you believe it? especially if no one else heard it!"

I would simply say, "YA, RIGHT"!
---christan on 12/10/13


Christian, How many people did Christ talk to personally after His ascension ??
If I told you Christ talked to me today would you believe it? especially if no one else heard it!
---1st_cliff on 12/8/13


"...No one heard the words of conversation, (all secret) The words of Saul of Tarsus!" 1stCliff

"All secret"? How secret is it if it's written in the Holy Bible for all to see? Isn't it recorded in the same chapter that Christ told Ananias in verses 13-16,

"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake."

As Christ told Thomas, "...be not faithless, but believing... blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." - your lack of faith in the Word is very telling.
---christan on 12/7/13


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Christian, Bonifide/bonafide my spell check was not working !Picky, picky!
Jesus hand picked the 12 apostle, Judas was replaced by Mathias. (committee choice)
On the road to Damascus no one saw Christ, No one heard the words of conversation, (all secret) The words of Saul of Tarsus!
Jesus promised Holy Spirit to guide them (Paul was not the Holy Spirit)
So you have a new religion half Christian ,half Pharisee new rule new regulations new beliefs!
All inspired? All God breathed? You can believe whatever suits you.
Jesus told believers "Watch out!"
---1st_cliff on 12/7/13


"Actually the words of Jesus and His "bonifide" apostles, and of course the OT" 1stCliff

You mean bonafide and not "bonifide" (no such wrod) when you referred to the apostles. Aren't all the writers in the Bible "bonafide" prophets and apostles of Jesus Christ?

Aren't we told that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Unless you're trying to say Paul wasn't a "bonafide" apostle of Christ? Yea or nay?

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." Matthew 5:37
---christan on 12/6/13


Christian the Bible is correct and the Authoritative word of GOD. That we get immmortality from GOD not have it already.

Rom 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1Cr 15:53 also 54
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


1Ti 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

2Ti 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
---Samuelbb7 on 12/6/13


Christian, Actually the words of Jesus and His "bonifide" apostles, and of course the OT !
---1st_cliff on 12/6/13


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"This is not something that Christ preached, but a couple of thousand years of being bound as scripture is now accepted by fundamentalists as truth!" 1stCliff

So bottom-line is, you're declaring right before God that there's no Truth to be found in the Holy Bible that He so graciously gave to His people, right? That not everything that's stated or written in the Bible is 100% Truth, right?

Let me then ask you this: if the Bible does not contain 100% Truth of God's Word, what's guiding you to His Truth outside of the Holy Bible? The angel Moroni? Or better still, the devil that never sleeps?
---christan on 12/6/13


JESUS referred to death as sleep. Just like the Old Testament does. Because there is a resurrection of the dead. To face Judgment. I have never read the Pharisees did not believe in an immortal soul.

John 11:11-14

These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Read 1stCorithian 15.

So immortal soul is not mentioned in the Bible. But that we are Mortal is.

Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/6/13


Christian, There's one problem with this that's probably over your head!
Pharisees ,as a group, (who incidentally Jesus denounced as liars) believed in the soul's immortality.
Some of this shows through in his writings (absent from the body, in the body out of the body etc)
This is not something that Christ preached ,but a couple of thousand years of being bound as scripture is now accepted by fundamentalists as truth!
The devil never sleeps!
---1st_cliff on 12/6/13


Bro. Christan, you are correct. Jesus Himself who was fully human possessed a physical body, a soul and a spirit, like every single individual. According to (Matthew 26:38) Christ said to His disciples :
"My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death" This could hardly be attributed to His divine nature and therefore is a reference to the fact that He possessed a human soul.
The same thing is mentioned about the spirit as given in ( John 13:21) in regard to His human spirit,
"When Jesus had thus said, He was troubled in the spirit" Christ possessed a true human body, but in the immaterial aspect He had a soul and a spirit.
What's immaterial does not die. The flesh dies.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/13


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1stCliff:

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:23

So, is Paul talking about the body of flesh in this passage? If he was, he wouldn't have wrote, "...that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" 1 Corinthians 15:50

Guess what, your flesh perishes but what doesn't? Isn't it clear the soul and spirit is somewhere waiting for the "body" that's to be "preserved blameless"? Isn't that separation from the fleshly body?
---christan on 12/4/13


\\You must be fully born breath actual air unaided It can only apply to mammals as you must be born alive and not hatched from an egg\\

BCV, please. Though that's not my rule, it is YOUR rule, and you must play by it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/13


Christian, I would be interested in reading where Jesus and Paul and God say that the soul slips away and seperates from the body at death. BCV please!
---1st_cliff on 12/4/13



No one has a soul rather you are a soul it is a state of being, from the Hebrew word Nefesh it is when life begins. You must be fully born breath actual air unaided It can only apply to mammals as you must be born alive and not hatched from an egg. You are a soul as long as you are alive when die you are dead. Spirit and Soul are not interchangeable they have totally different meanings.
---Blogger9211 on 12/3/13


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"You make a really devout pagan with your belief that something inside you slips away at death." 1stCliff

If believing in having a soul and spirit apart from the flesh is a "devout pagan", then Jesus and Paul must have been pagans, that's because throughout the Bible the soul of a man is ever so mentioned by them. And not to mention God Almighty.

So, what does that make you, an extreme heathen?
---christan on 12/3/13


1stCliff, What you mean to say is "your bible".

Christ declared, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power..." Revelation 20:6 - and you're obviously lacking in this. Do note that this "first resurrection" happens while you're in the flesh and not after you're dead and gone from this world.
---christan on 12/3/13


Micha, Since Luke is the only non Jew to pen scripture plus he was not an apostle and no indication of him ever meeting Jesus, and no one else backs up this story.
Give One good reason we should take this as truth!
The fact that a billion people believe the Quran, does that make it true?
---1st_cliff on 12/3/13


Christan
I have noticed Cliff does not use any of the Word of God to support his beliefs.
Is he afraid of what he might find if he opens it up and reads it?
Of course his bible does not have Luke or any of the epistles of Paul. It may not even have Hebrews in it. (questionable origins and all)
---micha9344 on 12/3/13


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Christian, Micha was inferring that it was literal
I just went along with this nonsense!
You make a really devout pagan with your belief that something inside you slips away at death.
No such thing happens. You must wait for a resurrection to live again. The bible is clear on this subject!
The dead are not alive! get this straight Life I God's gift.
Sorry I don't have any puppets or crayons to demonstrate this for you!
---1st_cliff on 12/3/13


"Have you been down to your local cemetery and watch the dead burring the dead?" 1stCliff

Truly unbelievable, your unbelief (not that it's surprising anyways). You don't even have a clue what Christ was even referring to in Luke 9:60, do you? Saying "Let the dead bury their dead" does not even imply the physical dead BUT those whose spirit are DEAD to God!

Wow! Now you know how DEAD you are to the Word of God? You may be able to read the words of the Bible, but harken to what Christ declared, "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

Bottomline, your spirit is dead to God...
---christan on 12/2/13


Christian, Do you think about what you read?
What evil thing did the rich man do that would send him into a fire?? Being rich is not a crime!
What wonderful thing did the beggar do that merited him heaven?
Can you see through 6' of dirt?
If you're extremely thirsty would you ask for one drop of water?? realiy Christian, reality!
---1st_cliff on 12/3/13


1stCliff, your understanding of Luke 16:19-31 is a parable? Where does it say say so by Christ that the account of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable?

What's there to speak in parable about Paradise/Hades or heaven/hell? And anyways, if you look at all the parables that's said they are parables, you will notice one stark contrast - names are never mentioned or even given. It's always about the master and servant.

Whereas in Luke 16:19-31, Christ explicitly mentioned the name of the beggar, whose name was Lazarus. Furthermore, Abraham was also included in the account. What's a parable is Luke 16:1-13.
---christan on 12/2/13


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Micha, Have you been down to your local cemetery and watch the dead burring the dead?
Watching too many movies like The Walking Dead ??
So are you judged before or after you die?
A promise from Christ like "never die" means that if I live 'till His return or am resurrected, my life will go on!! You know "name written in the book of life".
It's guarantee enough for me!
---1st_cliff on 12/2/13


Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
If I believed like Cliff, one or more of these verses would have to be wrong. but, since none are wrong, my Cliff-like belief must be wrong.
Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool [is] right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel [is] wise.
---micha9344 on 12/2/13


Christian, Using a parable (of questionable origin) to prove a reality doesn't work!
The story goes " the beggar was buried " but 6' underground he saw Abraham (xray vision) afar off????
You explain this, I don't care what bible you use!
make it a literal reality!
---1st_cliff on 12/2/13


Humans have eternal souls/spirits because they were created in God's image. He wanted us to be eternally with Him. We have a choice of whether we want to be with Him or hell. I agree with what Billy Graham said about animals going to heaven. If it takes my dog going to heaven to make me happy, then I believe my dog will be in heaven with me. God can do anything He desires & that includes giving animals an eternal soul/spirit. I believe, in the Garden Of Eden, everything was created to live on earth forever & when man sinned, the curse of the earth, man & beast changed everything forever.
---Reba on 12/2/13


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something to remember is the ones who are born twice die once but the ones who are born once die twice. Whatever it means, horses will be used when time as we know it is over.
---shira4368 on 12/2/13


1stCliff, you have another bible that's not the same as the one I'm going to quote from to show how wrong you are.

"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried, And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." Luke 16:22,23

Hmmm.... they both died in the flesh according to Christ but yet one one to Paradise and the other to Hades. Was it the flesh that went there or was it the soul and spirit? Didn't God curse Adam, "dust you are, dust you shall return"?

Guess which part of the man was made of dust?
---christan on 12/2/13


Christian, Here's the part that you're stumbling over:
The scripture no where says "just" the body dies.
When it speaks of death it's the "person" that dies.
Jn.3.16 doesn't say whosoever does not believe will lose his body! Doesn't say the unbeliever's body will perish, but the "person"!
Do you understand "perish?"
Perish does not mean alive in some other place.
This is where the pagan idea has infiltrated, that you can't die , ever!
Whereas God says life is His gift.
There is no purpose in a God of love torturing any one or anything! Surves no useful purpose! (except a scare tactic!)
---1st_cliff on 12/1/13


1Cliff, you try so hard to confuse Scripture by the questions you post. You combine spiritual death, physical death, etern punishment, everlasting life, prisoner condemned, and so forth. To sort of confuse everything all together. Each topic has it's own answer. Only cults try to do that when they do not understand or belief each of the topics. But when one topic at a time is explained, they then throw many other questions again together. Stick with one at a time, because space does not allow enough room to answer everything. But I am sure you will get answers if you don't try to confuse everything. You say you are not a J. witness anymore, act like that.
---Mark_V. on 12/1/13


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1stCliff, it's obvious you don't believe that man (and ONLY man) is created tripartite. It says so in my Bible, "...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Thessalonians 5:23

So, when a man is executed on earth, only his body perish. Can you see your own soul and spirit? I know I can't, but I know that the body is the vessel for my soul and spirit to reside while on this earth.

And when I die, if I'm God's elect, I will receive a "glorified" body when my soul and spirit will be united together in eternity with Christ. The body on earth is a "corrupt" body which must die because God cursed it.
---christan on 11/30/13


Christian, When a murderer is executed is his punishment temporary or permanent?
Do shame and contempt also follow him?
Do you believe in everlasting life?? The opposite is everlasting death.
Why would you believe in one and not the other?
Life is a gift, death is punishment. Again you believe one and not the other....Why??
---1st_cliff on 11/30/13


1Cliff, yes, God can destory the soul and the body if He so wants to. That only shows He is Sovereign. But nowhere are we told He is doing that now or ever has done. All believer who die, their soul goes to be with Christ. We are spiritually baptized into Christ. That is why we can worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Only believers can do that. No one will ever be able to separate us from the love of God. Spiritually, we are with Him already. We have one more step to go, our glorification, when our physical bodies are redeemed.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/13


"Destroy" to you means non-existence? Really? And you're a Christian?

Heard of eternal death? Does Christ mean you cease to exist in eternal death?

"...and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:29, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment" Matthew 25:46, "...and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2

"that people are still living in another relm...how does that fit "destroy"???", obviously you will find out when that "time" comes, this much I assure you.
---christan on 11/30/13


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Christian, Such a shallow belief you entertain!
Certainly you can kill my present life, but you are not able to destroy my future life (by resurrection)
Can you not understand that God can "destroy" your present AND future life!
Do you not understand "destroy"?
Your false belief is that people are still living in another relm...how does that fit "destroy"???
In this use of "soul" He's not talking about some mysterious creature living inside your body!!! Get real!
---1st_clif on 11/29/13


If pagans can believe that there's a soul just as what Christ has admonished Christians to not fear man, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the SOUL: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." - think how great an unbeliever you are to the Word of God!

Can you even understand "...but are not able to kill the SOUL"? Do you seriously believe the "SOUL" will cease to exist after the flesh returns to dust? "...where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" Revelation 20:10 - how does God torment the unbeliever if he ceases to exist?
---christan on 11/29/13


Christian, What would a man give in exchange for his life (soul)
If a person gains the whole world but loses his life(soul)
what does he gain?
Pagans believe in the soul's immortality , notChristians!
---1st_cliff on 11/29/13


"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: FOR HE SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS." Matthew 1:21

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins" Acts 13:38

Do animals have a soul? Most definitely NO. If they do, then Christ also came to die for them which Matthew explicitly declared that Christ came to "save His people from their sins".

"...or what shall A MAN GIVE IN EXCHANGE FOR HIS SOUL?" Matthew 16:26
---christan on 11/29/13


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"... which in turn means they were meant to live forever like humans!
Is this true theology?"
---1st_cliff on 11/27/13

One may also infer that man was not made to live forever in the day of his creation:
Genesis 3:22_23 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."
---Nana on 11/28/13


"Is this true theology?" No.
"As by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all [men] have sinned:" Rom 5:12
Eternal life is a gift. >Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:23
---Josef on 11/28/13


That's not exactly my question. A soul is a living sentient creature, so animals do not have souls but like humans "are" souls!
There are those on here that say animals didn't die 'till Adam's sin, which in turn means they were meant to live forever like humans!
Is this true theology?
---1st_cliff on 11/27/13


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