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Sinners All Destroyed

When Jesus comes back, all sinners will be destroyed, and resurrected saints will not have children.

When the thousand years is over, Satan will deceive the nations. Where will those people come from?

Moderator - Too many wrong assumptions above.

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\\ But aren't His saints also sinners? Since according to you "Jesus will destroy all sinners", shouldn't His saints also be destroyed since they are sinners too? \\
---christan

If you take a breath and actually study, you would know that the dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive will be changed and meet Him in the air (1Cor 15:23, 52, 4:16-17). THEN...He comes with ALL His saints (1Thess 3:13)



"...there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:10,11 \\
---christan

I'll bet you think that added something to the issue at hand. Well...It Didn't

Good grief
---James_L on 12/21/13


christan: "jerry6593, so by your account, all "gentlemen" will get to go to heaven?"

Another LIE christan? You know full well I made no judgment about anyone's fitness for heaven. Unlike you, I believe that salvational judgment is the province of God - not men.

It seems to me that YOU are closer to being an "accuser of the brethren" than a Christian gentleman.




---jerry6593 on 12/21/13


"Jesus will destroy all sinners when He returns, and the saints will reign over the nations with Him from Jerusalem" JamesL

But aren't His saints also sinners? Since according to you "Jesus will destroy all sinners", shouldn't His saints also be destroyed since they are sinners too?

"This only makes sense if one acknowledges the biblical teaching that no one is born a sinner. Children are not sinners, and will not be destroyed."

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:10,11

Ruckus you are not raising but nonsense you are talking.
---christan on 12/20/13


"Well I believe Billy Graham is a Christian." samuelbb7

When asked whether Billy Graham believes heaven will be "closed to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people," Graham replied: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and who won't ... I don't want to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his Son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have." ("Pilgrim's Progress," Newsweek, Aug. 14, 2006).

Graham believes that a man without faith in Jesus Christ can be saved, and you believe he's a Christian? Good for you...
---christan on 12/20/13


"My point was that because of the Grace given to me by GOD I love him and want to keep His commandments." samuelbb7

And you can keep His commandments? Really you can? Your comment tells me that you still have to obey His law in order to stay save. Than maybe you should have told Paul that he was wrong to write Romans 7, even after he was saved by the grace of God.

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not." Romans 7:18 - but samuelbb7 can.

Did God save the sinner to keep His commandments or did He save the sinner because He loved them?
---christan on 12/20/13




\\ James_L,
...Jesus will rule His saints on Earth for 1K years...and the rest of the world will be desolate...? \\
---micha9344 on 12/19/13


My answer is sure to raise a ruckus.

Jesus will destroy all sinners when He returns, and the saints will reign over the nations with Him from Jerusalem

How in the world will there be "nations" if all the sinners are destroyed?

Read Isaiah 66:15-20, clearly showing that there will be survivors.

This only makes sense if one acknowledges the biblical teaching that no one is born a sinner. Children are not sinners, and will not be destroyed.
---James_L on 12/20/13


"What rule do you use to determine what is symbolic or not." Elder

"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...

having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness, And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace, Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."
Ephesians 6:11-15

Is this a physical war? There's no rule but there's FAITH!
---christan on 12/20/13


And you dare boast that it's because of your love for God? Can the sinner love God if God doesn't love him to begin with? According to John, it's IMPOSSIBLE! That is, if you're not God's elect, your confession of faith and love in God is all in vain. christan

Agreed we love GOD because HE first loved us. Another point we have in agreement. Since I love GOD according to your statement I am a member of GOD'S elect. My confession is the result of GOD's love and grace to me that leaves me no room to boast.

My point was that because of the Grace given to me by GOD I love him and want to keep His commandments.

1John 5:3

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/20/13


"the thousand years is symbolic... "Armageddon" isn't a physical war"
christian

What rule do you use to determine what is symbolic or not. If there were symbolism about heaven it wouldn't be until Rev 21:1-27. It is easy to spiritualize away Bible truth away.

Also, Eph 6 is not about Armageddon. Read the entire book. In chapter 5 the Church is the Bride of Christ. Chapter 6 is about preparing to be a good soldier starting with obedience.
Armageddon is a place not a thing, Rev 16:16. This is a battle of God not Adam and Eve, v15. It is called that great day of God Almighty. The war is with the Lamb battling Satan, peoples and nations, ch 17:13-15. This happens at the Second Coming
---Elder on 12/20/13


Samuelbb7, just because you preach the Word of God does not mean you're a Christian. Even the Vatican, Billy Graham and the likes, "claim" they preach the Word, but do you seriously believe they are Christians? I certainly don't, just like I believe the SDA are heretics, christan

Well I believe Billy Graham is a Christian. As for others I am not to judge their heart that is GOD'S job alone.

Well Christian you do not know our doctrines. You have not read them. You do judge others as if you know our hearts.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/20/13




"So we teach that our love for GOD and othersshould cause us to do what is right. Read all of First John. Also Romans 3:31" samuelbb7

This is the very thing I'm talking about your doctrine. Do you know that it's because of God's love for the sinner, he's is saved and nothing to do with him loving God? The sinner that loves God is because it's the very consequence of God's love. It says so in 1 John 4:19

"We love him, because he first loved us."

And you dare boast that it's because of your love for God? Can the sinner love God if God doesn't love him to begin with? According to John, it's IMPOSSIBLE! That is, if you're not God's elect, your confession of faith and love in God is all in vain.
---christan on 12/19/13


jerry6593, so by your account, all "gentlemen" will get to go to heaven? Where does it say so in the Bible? And why should I feel ashamed for speaking the Truth?

Samuelbb7, just because you preach the Word of God does not mean you're a Christian. Even the Vatican, Billy Graham and the likes, "claim" they preach the Word, but do you seriously believe they are Christians? I certainly don't, just like I believe the SDA are heretics, "...deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ" by your doctrines.

Unbelievers don't speak about Christ, it's Christ who said, "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many."
---christan on 12/19/13


Theirs is clearly one of self salvation, that Jesus is only a co-savior. They think that in observing the law - that ministry of death & condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7-9)that they will be found worthy of eternal life. elee

Apperently elee do not actually know what we believe and have never read anything but lying critics. You also do not seem to know all that I have written here.

We are saved by Grace alone through faith in JESUS CHRIST alone. We are Born Again by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT so that we may live to serve GOD. First John 3:4 says sin is trangression of the Law.

So we teach that our love for GOD and othersshould cause us to do what is right. Read all of First John. Also Romans 3:31
---Samuelbb7 on 12/19/13


James_L,
So you are saying that Jesus will rule His saints on Earth for 1K years, all in New Jerusalem, and the rest of the world will be desolate during this time?
---micha9344 on 12/19/13


I will vote with Christan on what he stated about the SDA and their errant belief system. Theirs is clearly one of self salvation, that Jesus is only a co-savior. They think that in observing the law - that ministry of death & condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7-9)that they will be found worthy of eternal life. Poor blind souls, they have been deceived but will they realize that before they face the lake of fire?
---elee on 12/19/13


Thank you Jerry. GOD be with you.


Christ never warned His people about those who do not believe in Him but rather those who claim to believe in Him. And the SDA is just one.
Christian

You still have not answered by question have you looked up what we believe. Nor have you stated why you say everything we teach is wrong and you do not believe anything we do yet I find agreements with you.

So please if you say you disagree with everything we teach why do you believe the Bible is the Word of GOD since we do also?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/19/13


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christan: "samuelbb7, I truly believe that SDA is a deluded bunch of heretics."

You are not 1/10 the Christian gentleman that Samuel is. All you and your evil twin MarkV can produce is satanic hate-speech toward your fellow Christians. Shame on you!

Why do you even bother posting here since in your robot-willed cult we were all either saved or lost before we were born, and nothing you say can make any difference?




---jerry6593 on 12/19/13


samuelbb7, I truly believe that SDA is a deluded bunch of heretics. Do you disagree that you believe in the following:

- that those who are truly converted and love God will diligently study, and give heed to, His Word
- that a person must "endure" to the end to be guaranteed salvation in Christ
- that through baptism the SDA believer is truly born again in Jesus

Now, do you know why Jesus was very firm when He warned His people, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Christ never warned His people about those who do not believe in Him but rather those who claim to believe in Him. And the SDA is just one.
---christan on 12/18/13


Matt 24 was spoken by the Lord Himself to the 12 as representatives of Israel.(Matt 24:1) Consequently, Matt 24 is tribulation. As a member of the Body of Christ today, we have all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places in Christ at that moment of salvation compared with Israel whose blessings are physical and yet future. (Acts 3:19 Eph. 1:3, 1 Tim. 6:17, Gen. 12:1-3, Heb. 8:10-12). Israel must endure the Tribulation to be able to go into the 1000 year millennial kingdom where they will finally get the physical blessings promised to Abraham and his seed.
---michael_e on 12/18/13


Elder 2: so the gathering of believers is not the coming of Christ you say, that it doesn't mean that. Let me show you how much you are wrong:
"Now, brethren, concerning "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though "the Day of Christ had come" let no one deceive you by any means, for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thess. 2:1-3)
Sounds very much like the Coming of Christ and the Day of the Lord is one event. The Second Coming of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/18/13


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Dear Christian

You did not answer my post on where you state you do not agree with anything we say. But in your latest post you agree with what we says.

So why do you not answer my last post and let me know what you think now that you see we do agree on many things?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/18/13


Elder, your best answer is:
"MarkV, again you show you don't understand what the Bible says. Jesus' gathering the Church is not a Coming."
I have news for you, you don't understand the Bible when it talks about the gathering of believers. Here let me help you:
"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven: And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, "they shall see the Son of Man coming" (parousia) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt. 24:30-31).
His coming no one will miss it.
---Mark_V. on 12/18/13


Hebrews 9:15-17 explicitly talks about how Christ blood paid for ALL the saints (including the OT), "And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."


Hebrews 9 clearly talks about the symbolism of the OT sacrifices until the revelation of Christ, who was hidden in that lamb.
---christan on 12/18/13


The ministry of Christ on earth was to Jews only (Rom. Today in the grace dispensation, there's no difference between Jew and Gentile, all are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9, 14-16, Rom. 10:12, Gal. 3:28). God set Israel aside when he gave the Apostle Paul new instructions (Rom. 11:11-12,25, 32, Acts 13:46-47, 18:6, 25:28). He will resume Israels program when he ends grace with the rapture of the Church.
The church, the Body of Christ will one day occupy the heavens (II Cor. 5:1) Israel will occupy the earth
(ref Gen. 1:1, 12:1-3). This truth can only be understood through right division by Paul.
---michael_e on 12/18/13


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"New Testament Saints are spoke of in the New Testament as being the Church, The Body of Christ and The Bride of Christ." Elder

I've got news for you. Saints are saints, period. OT saints and NT saints are all saved in the same manner, 100% by the grace of God. But it was the blood of Christ that finally washed away all the sins of ALL the saints, be it OT or NT.

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:27,28

Sacrificing the lamb was symbolic until the revelation of the true Lamb of God.
---christan on 12/18/13


"Jesus' Second Coming is to set up His 1000-year reign on the earth." Elder

You are telling us that Jesus is coming back again in His glorified state to rule the earth where flesh and blood dwells? And for a thousand years at that? Really? You actually believe that the thousand years is in real time and not symbolic of the perfection that's heaven? Wow!

"So the Garden must have been in the vally of Megiddo huh?"

You just can't see how serious it was when the serpent deceived the first man in the garden and everything fell into pieces. "Armageddon" isn't a physical war, go read Ephesians 6 - that's "Armageddon"!
---christan on 12/17/13


The "church" rightly known as the "body of Christ"
christan

New Testament Saints are spoke of in the New Testament as being the Church, The Body of Christ and The Bride of Christ.

Not just "rightly known as the body of Christ" as you say. One phrase is just as valid as the other.
---Elder on 12/17/13


MarkV, again you show you don't understand what the Bible says. Jesus' gathering the Church is not a Coming.

Jesus' first Coming was in the manger with His taking on human flesh and walking the earth.

Jesus' Second Coming is to set up His 1000-year reign on the earth.

He does NOT come to earth gather His Church. He calls them to Him.

There was one 1st coming and one 2nd coming. Your foolishness is in your own mind because you try so hard to find fault with anything of biblical truth to support your twisted view. That is sad because maybe with your zeal correctly guided you could be a good minister of the Gospel but not the way you are.
---Elder on 12/17/13


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"Fyi, "Armageddon" started way back in the garden and will continue till the end of time. It's not specific event as you think, go read Ephesians 6:10-24.
---christan on 12/17/13

So the Garden must have been in the vally of Megiddo huh?

We all must live there now and Rev 16 is not valid...
Rev 16:16 must be wrong too.
---Elder on 12/17/13


Elder, you always deny you said stuff. Now you want me to show you where you said there was two Second Comings, First Christan's comments :
""O really? Isn't the second coming also known as the "day of the Lord"?"
Christian"

And you answered with:
"No it is not.
The great catching away, the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord are all different."

Your saying there is two events. Jesus comes to gather the Church, and then comes again on the Day of the Lord.
Why deny what you said? It's your interpretations that are wrong. There is only one Second Coming.
The same word for coming in the original is "Parousia" and is use in both events.
Check it out.
---Mark_V. on 12/17/13


samuellbb7, I never agreed with anything you or your seventh day adventist teach.

When Christ "return", He will completely separate the "sheep from the goats". His "sheep" to eternal life and the "goats" to eternal death... How can the wicked dwell in the presence of God?
christan

I agree with the basics of your statement. I only add a belief in the Great White Throne judgment.

Since you never agree with SDA you do not believe in the Trinity, the Authority of the Bible as the judge of all truth, that JESUS was physically resurrected, that we are saved by grace alone and many common doctrines among Christianity. Have you ever read Our 28 doctrine beliefs?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/17/13


Elder, you wrote:

"If Christ destroyed everything at the Second Coming were would He reign from?"

Christ is already reigning in heaven. Does He need to be on earth to reign? Before being crucified, He said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36 - so your theory that He has to come to this world to reign is seriously erroneous.

Fyi, "Armageddon" started way back in the garden and will continue till the end of time. It's not specific event as you think, go read Ephesians 6:10-24.
---christan on 12/17/13


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Micha9344,
re: Isaiah 13

v11 I will punish the world for its evil

AND

Medes conquered Babylon in 539bc, but not as this passage predicted

v15-18 thrust through, dashed to pieces, mow down young men, houses plundered

yet there was relatively little violence. AND no plundering


v20 it will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation

Never inhabited after the Medes? Alexander the Great conquered Babylon 200 years later.


Also, v10
there was no cosmic occurrence of this nature

see Jeremiah 51:24-28 which was written AFTER the Medes overtook Babylon.

There is more, too
---James_L on 12/16/13


samuellbb7, don't flatter yourself - I never agreed with anything you or your seventh day adventist teach.

When Christ "return", He will completely separate the "sheep from the goats". His "sheep" to eternal life and the "goats" to eternal death - never to be together again like they were dwelling on earth. How can the wicked dwell in the presence of God?

The "new Jerusalem" is not the Jerusalem we know of today but heaven. It's just symbolic, just like the promise land the Israelites inherited in Canaan. It was a picture of Christ bringing His sheep to heaven, symbolically played out when Joshua who brought Israel to the promise land.
---christan on 12/16/13


MarkV again your fairy tale mind claims things not said by me. You have no platform to stand on so you make up things.

Show the post where I said there is more than one Second Coming of Christ. Do you even know why it is called Second Coming.

The Holy Spirit came to believers in Acts 2.

So what does it mean and what happpens when He is taken out of the way in II Thess 2:7?
---Elder on 12/16/13


anyone that was there when Jesus was on the cross knows what He went thru. nailed to a cross and hanging there with no clothes would be more than humiliated. then He was spit upon and cut and my mind can't comprehend what went on just for me. as a mother I don't understand how mary could endure her son on a cross.
---shira4368 on 12/16/13


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\\Where does Jesus say that He humiliated himself by leaving His Father's right side?
---barb on 12/14/13\\

You don't think He EXALTED Himself by leaving the Father's right hand, do you?

He did pray, "Father, glorify Me with the glory I had with You......" So clearly, when He prayed that, He was in a humiliated (at least relatively speaking) state.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/13


Actually, probably "realized millennium" is the better description.
I certainly don't look for secular governments at any level to bring on Christ's Kingdom,
Gabriel said His Kingdom would have no end. Millennialists say that His kingdom WILL come to an end. Cluny
Thank you for your definition. I am okay with that. I am glad you do not wish governments to force obedience. This was not the position of the Orthodox church in the past. You are correct He will destroy then make all things new.
Seventh day Adventist teach the Millennium is spent in heaven. That reign will never end. It will just follow the New Jerusalem as it moves to the Earth made new. So we agree on one coming with both you and Christian.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/16/13


At His Ascension, He returned to His place there.
Anywhere after sitting at the right of the Father is going to be a comedown.
Do you want Jesus to do that? Cluny


No. The Bible says the New Jerusalem will come down to earth and all the resurrected saints will live in the City.

Our stand on Pre is that JESUS comes before the Millennium and takes His people to Heaven. The resurrected saints will live in the New Jerusalem a forever kingdom.


So we have points of agreement. But I do not understand your view of the New Earth and the New Jerusalem. We look on the words of Isaiah 65 & 66 and others that the Earth made new will be Heaven here on earth with GOD dwelling with us. Revelation also says this.
---Samuellbb7 on 12/16/13


Elder, EVERYTHING you say about the "church" is erroneous.

The "church" rightly known as the "body of Christ" was already in the "mind" of God before He created this world. The creation of this world was merely to bring into fruition His will and purpose that He may glorify ONLY His Son.

"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." 1 Peter 1:20

Christ, who's the "head of His church" in God's time was predestined to come and die that "He shall save His people from their sins". And that He did. That's the covenant of grace between the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
---christan on 12/16/13


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Elder, the Bible is not wrong, your interpretations are. There is only one Second Coming of Christ. He does not come silently, and then comes visibly. That would make two comings. Paul even tells the Thessalonian believers not to be deceived, for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition (2 Thess. 2:1-3). Paul message was that "the day of Christ" was not just around the corner, something big had to happen first. For us believers in the 21st century, Paul message is equally clear, Before Jesus Christ comes to gather" us, the falling away comes first, and the antichrist must be revealed. But you have to have ears to hear otherwise you are deceived.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/13


[christan on 12/14/13]

Your childish attempt, on the above date, to distort what I said shows you lack ability to understand the english language ot plain lie.

It also reveals that you display no ability to divide the Word of God or the time periods placed therein.

Maybe you'd like to show where I said all the things you indicated. Or maybe you'd just like to show us where the Bible is wrong.

Why is the Church not spoke of after Rev 3:22 until ch 19? Where do the nations come from in ch 20?

If you think that Jesus and Satan gather together to do battle with humans you've used too much weed.
---Elder on 12/15/13


It should be clear the twelve tribes refers to the nation Israel (Gen 49:28, Deut 1:23, Exo 28:21, Josh 3:12).
Despite the cross references some say epistles like James isn't written to the twelve tribes of Israel, but that the author intended to write it to Jew and Gentile.
With just minor study it should be clear, Pauls doctrine is a Gentile inclusive church: Col. 3:11
Gentiles were not part of the twelve tribes of Israel. Since Gentiles are perfectly at home among Gentile countries it would not make sense to call them scattered. There are no separate tribes in the mystery church of this dispensation.
How could they be written to the boC if the present church doesn't have twelve tribes?
---michael_e on 12/15/13


Those having died without hearing the gospel of Christ, would not have had the opportunity or privilege of embracing the Fathers word of salvation through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, or acknowledge and confess Him as Lord.They will be raised in the first resurrection and taught the salvation of God during the millennial reign of Jesus. They will be given the choice of accepting or rejecting that salvation. "It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of the LORD". Isa.54:13 was initiated during the first advent of the LORD and shall be continued during His millennia reign. Then, like now, there will be those who reject HIm. These will follow Satan.
---joseph on 12/16/13


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"It's simple to divide the scripture speaking of the church, the boC from the nation of Israel." michael e

Really? Sounds more like you chopped up the BoC into pieces.

You see, the twelve tribes, the nation of Israel, the 12,000 in Revelation, the 144,000 - they were all symbolic of the church, the body of Christ. You are just caught up that the physical nation of Israel is the church. This is Paul's revelation -

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6,8
---christan on 12/15/13


It's simple to divide the scripture speaking of the church, the boC from the nation of Israel.
The second coming spoken by the twelve is prophecy. The catching away spoken by Paul, is mystery.
Israel is the subject of prophecy, the one body church, the subject of mystery not revealed to the twelve tribes
The boC, doesn't have twelve tribes. (Rom 12:5, Eph 4:4).
Jesus chose twelve one for each tribe (Mark 3:14).
He gave instructions to go to the twelve tribes. Matt 10:5-6
He promised twelve thrones: one throne for each tribe of Israel. Matt 19:28
The twelve ministered the kingdom to the twelve tribes. Acts 2:22
James 1:1 .. to the twelve tribes..
John prophesied 12,000 from each tribe Rev 7:4
---michael_e on 12/15/13


Elder: "There are people alive on earth during the Second Coming. They enter into the 1000 years."

The Bible disagrees:

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

There is only one second coming, when the righteous - both living an dead (asleep) - are CAUGHT UP to meet Jesus in the air. 1Th 4:15-17 They are then taken to their mansions in heaven for 1000 years.




---jerry6593 on 12/15/13


There is only One Second Coming. Not two or three. No silent one, when He comes everyone will know. It will be the loudness noise anyone ever heard. It will be like the days of Noah. Believe it or not.
---Mark_V. on 12/15/13


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"The great catching away, the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord are all different." Elder

So you're saying that Christ will be coming back and forth more than once? Let me understand your theory -

1. Christ came in the flesh, died, resurrected and was glorified by the Father in heaven.
2. Then He's coming back again to rule this world for 1000 years in His glorified state?
3. Then He returns and comes back again to destroy this world (in the Day of the Lord).
4. Isn't Satan a spiritual being? And both he and Christ will come down to earth to do battle with mortal beings? Wow! You've been watching to many Hollywood shows.

Are you confusing yourself with The Lord of the Rings?
---christan on 12/14/13


Cluny, yes Jesus will make all things new because the old Heaven and the old Earth will have passed away. Rev 21:1. It will be a sparkling brand new earth set upon the dust and ashes of the old one.

Where does Jesus say that He humiliated himself by leaving His Father's right side?
---barb on 12/14/13


\\ How condescending of you. \\
---Micha9344

Not any more than...

\\ The whole of the Bible falls neatly into place when understanding and discernment are correct. \\
---micha9344

\\ we all must put away pre-conceived notions....your statements contain such.... //
---micha9344


I was originally tactful. But my reply was about 180 words, and I had to condense it.

If you don't believe me, just copy and paste my post into a reply page. Then add three or four words. I was well beyond the limit, and wordiness had to go.

And I have a reply concerning Isaiah, but it is too long so I'm condensing. Tact might have to go in that one too
---James_L on 12/14/13


\\When Jesus destroys everything He will reign in the New Jerusalem, the city sent down from Heaven to earth. Rev 21:1-8.

I agree with Samuel.\\

Aside from the fact that Jesus is NOT going to destroy everything--rather He will make all things new--there's another error here.

When the Logos was made flesh in the womb of the Virgin Mary, born in Bethlehem, and lived among us as the man Jesus, He HUMILIATED Himself by leaving the right hand of the Father.

At His Ascension, He returned to His place there.

Earthly kingdoms are asking Jesus to humiliate Himself again. Anywhere after sitting at the right of the Father is going to be a comedown.

Do you really want Jesus to do that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/13


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When Jesus destroys everything He will reign in the New Jerusalem, the city sent down from Heaven to earth. Rev 21:1-8.

I agree with Samuel. The nations deceived are the ones who die the 1st death at the coming of Jesus. They are the 2nd resurrection (walking dead) who will once again be fooled by their god into believing they can win a war against their enemies from the 1st resurrection (the living saints). They are judged on their works and thrown into the fire which is the 2nd death. It's all there in Revelation 20 for all who have eyes to see and for those who will let the Holy Spirit be their guide.
---barb on 12/14/13


"O really? Isn't the second coming also known as the "day of the Lord"?"
christian

No it is not.
The great catching away, the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord are all different.

If Christ destroyed everything at the Second Coming were would He reign from?

Armageddon and the final Revolt of Satan are two different events also.

Would'a thought you knew these basic things.
---Elder on 12/14/13


"There are people alive on earth during the Second Coming. They enter into the 1000 years." Elder

O really? Isn't the second coming also known as the "day of the Lord"?

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,"
2 Peter 3:10,11

According to Peter, NOTHING will be left. How many times is your christ coming anyways?
---christan on 12/14/13


"I'd love to hear how you think unmarried, glorified saints will make babies"
James_L

This is a simple answer to this "man-made dilemma."
THEY DON"T!

People are confused about the timeline of events and what occurs.
You might want to ask where do those who take sides with Satan in the final battle against Christ come from.

There are people alive on earth during the Second Coming. They enter into the 1000 years.

Babies are being born to them during the 1000 years. This is not the Church/Bride, the friends of the Bride or the resurrected OT or NT saints.

Jesus doesn't just return and kill everyone left behind. They enter into the millennium with Him.
---Elder on 12/13/13


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"As a premillenilist we teach the 1000 years are spent in heaven." Samuelbb7

Wait a minute! Isn't heaven a state of eternal bliss and timeless just like God? Why would someone who's glorified want to return to earth?

Didn't Christ declare, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36

Why does Christ want to rule this earthly world when He's already glorified by His Father in heaven? What a mongrelic kingdom you preach.
---christan on 12/13/13


"You should read Matt 22:23-30"
How condescending of you.
So, James_L, do you have an answer for your question and just belittling others or are you truly searching for an answer, but not believing what anyone else has to say?
I noticed you didn't have a reply to your wrong assumptions about Isaiah.
The Truth is out there, and we all must put away pre-conceived notions and incorrect interpretations to receive it.
Somewhere in your statements contain such that need put away.
---micha9344 on 12/13/13


Mark V,
yes. One second coming.



\\Gen 2:24...and they shall be one flesh.
Adam and Eve were not marrying....they had babies.\\
---micha9344

You should read Matt 22:23-30

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

The Sadducees were referring to Deuteronomy 25:5-10. If a man died, having no children, it was his brother's responsibility to take the wife as his own, and raise up a son for the dead man

So in the resurrection, which of the seven men would have babies with her? Do you think all of them?

Jesus didn't say "they'll be like Adam and Eve", he said "like angels in heaven"

no marriage, no chidren
---James_L on 12/13/13


\\Cluny that doctrine is called Amillennialism.\\

Actually, probably "realized millennium" is the better description. It's not saying that there is NO millennium, which is what "amillennialism" actually means.

I certainly don't look for secular governments at any level to bring on Christ's Kingdom, as He Himself said, "My Kingdom is NOT of this world."

Millennialist views, however (whether pre or post), DO say that His Kingdom is of this world.

Gabriel said His Kingdom would have no end. Millennialists (pre- or post-) say that His kingdom WILL come to an end.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/12/13


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James L, I agree with the blog question.
The Second Coming of Christ is a one time event. Many here believe there is to Second Comings, the reason they say "too many assumptions" when you asked about the nations and where will the children come from. In their opinion, Jesus comes twice after His resurrection. One silent and one where everyone will see Him. But you are right, there is only One Second Coming.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/13


Cluny that doctrine is called Amillennialism. Sorry for misspelling it last time. That doctrine is held by most orthodox churches and Kingdom now churches who want to use the Government to establish GOD's kingdom on earth. Amillennialism has two views. One the Church will control the world the other it will not. Which do you believe?

I agree there is no pre tribulation rapture. The rapture is after the tribulation starts.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/12/13


Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Adam and Eve were not marrying, by their own volition, nor were they given to marriage, by their parent's volition. It was God who decided.
Hence they had babies.
---micha9344 on 12/12/13


Elder,
"WHY" would a mod sabotage a question? I won't pretend to know why people do things. Maybe cognitive dissonance? Your guess is as good as mine.

yes, it got posted - but this was not my first attempt to submit it, either. I started trying about a week ago

The flippant remark of "too many wrong assumptions" reeked of an attempt at dismissal before it ever got a chance to be discussed. That would amount to sabotage.

And,
Do you need a scripture to state explicitly that if there is no marrying in the resurrection, there won't be any baby making?

I'd love to hear how you think unmarried, glorified saints will make babies
---James_L on 12/11/13


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\\So Cluny what is your stand on the millennium?\\

We are living in the "1000 years" between Christ's first Advent and His Return, when the Devil is bound--that is LIMITED in power, not rendered inoperative.

Remember that there are two passages in the Bible: Psalm 90/89LXX and 2 Peter, where we are warned NOT to understand 1000 years in fallen earthly human terms. and St. Peter even gives his warning when he is talking about the Lord's return.

There is no secret rapture or earthly millennium.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/13


"---Moderator

That's pretty cute to try to sabotage someone's question with a sucker punch attached"
James_L

Please explain, why would the Moderator "try to sabotage" your question? He posted it didn't he?
If he wanted to sabotage it he never would have posted it.
One issue, no where does Scripture say that Saints will not have children durning the 1000 years.
---Elder on 12/11/13


Rev 19:21 --The remnant of what? Verse 19 answers that--the kings and the armies.
Where would you get all the people on the earth without making assumptions or bringing other ideas into this verse?
Isaiah 13:9 -- Verse 17 continues "I will stir up Medes against them" --no more sinners? or wrong presuppositions?
The whole of the Bible falls neatly into place when understanding and discernment are correct.
---micha9344 on 12/11/13


\\ Too many wrong assumptions above. \\
---Moderator

That's pretty cute to try to sabotage someone's question with a sucker punch attached

If you even tried to reference a scripture, or explain why you assume I've made assumptions, that would be much more noble
---James_L on 12/11/13


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So Cluny what is your stand on the millennium?

What do those here think of the resurrected sinners being the nations deceived?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/11/13


KarenD,
Outrageous? Have you not read Revelation 19:11-21, when Jesus returns, AFTER the plagues:

Rev 19:21
The Remnant Were Slain With The Sword Of Him Who Sat Upon The Horse

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord is coming....And He will exterminate its sinners from it

NO MORE SINNERS, Karen

Matt 22:30
in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage...

The resurrection happens when Christ returns. Unless you believe God will all of a sudden condone relations outside of marriage, saints will not have children In The Resurrection


Rev 20:7-10
Satan will be released after 1,000 years, and will deceive the nations
---James_L on 12/10/13


James_L...It would be nice if you quoted scriptures for your outrageous post.
---KarenD on 12/10/13


Hi, James L (c: What I have learned is

(1) No scripture says Jesus will receive His church bride before the great tribulation, but we see something about "immediately after", in Matthew 24.

(2) During the tribulation, so many will be killed of evil people, but not all.

(3) The saints will rule with Jesus during the thousand years > Revelation 20:4.

(4) A thousand years will be time enough for the leftover evil people of the tribulation to make enough babies to provide the armies which surround Jerusalem.
---willie_c: on 12/10/13


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\\I am guessing from you answer that you are either a postmillienlist or amillelist. Which one?\\

Neither.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/13


Cluny is not God and, therefore, has been wrong before and can be wrong now.
---micha9344 on 12/10/13


Cear Cluny

Not all premillinealist accept the pretrib rapture which is the cause of the question above.

I am guessing from you answer that you are either a postmillienlist or amillelist. Which one?

As a premillenilist we teach the 1000 years are spent in heaven. The nations who are decived is the resurrected wicked who come up and surround the New Jerusalem. Rev. 21

Rev 20:9
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/10/13


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