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Worldwide Christian Persecutions

Christian persecution and killings are happening throughout the world at alarming rates. Animosity toward Christians are rapidly rising in the USA. When what is happening in other countries begin in the USA, will Christians be forced underground?

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"...the Talmud is the rabbinic commentary of the Old Testament they are equal in stature and status as without the Talmud you cannot under the correct meaning of the Hebrew and LXX Greek text..."-Blogger9211 on 12/26/13
So, what part of the Hebrew and Greek text are the human rabbis commenting on when it comes to the life of an unborn baby?
This statement exemplifies Jesus' comments to a tea.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
--It seems that "educated" men will always tell us what something really means, regardless of the Holy Spirit.
---micha9344 on 12/27/13


Micha9344, as usual you are incorrect, the Talmud is the rabbinic commentary of the Old Testament they are equal in stature and status as without the Talmud you cannot under the correct meaning of the Hebrew and LXX Greek text. One of the reasons the LXX Greek text is important is that in the Hebrew text there are terms that only occur once so we really dont know what they actually mean. By using the LXX Greek text to get a better understanding of what the term means. To truly understand scripture it is imperative to read the text yourself in Hebrew and Greek, else you just become another victim of translator bias,
---Blogger9211 on 12/26/13


There is no such thing as politics without religion, for it is ones beliefs that come to bear in the political realm.
It is God who sets up kingdoms and governments.
Nations that do not accept God, but their own religion, into their politics have a frightful result.
There are many verses in Proverbs about what a righteous king looks like. If religion were not to affect politics, many principles in God's Word would have little meaning.
---micha9344 on 12/26/13


It is nice to see apologies and people resolving to be nicer.

I also agree Politics and Religion should not be mixed. Religious people should always vote their conscious not their political party.

I have never read in the Bible that GOD wants low taxes on people.

Neither should we look to the government to solve the woes of the world. We each need to help and do for others as much as we can and above all do not add to problems by living in sin.

Agape to all and Happy New Year.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/26/13


Jed:

I agree there are certain areas where Christianity agrees with conservatism over liberalism, but there are also some areas where the reverse is true. The Bible itself speaks highly of liberalism in many plases, and you can't just say "the Bible meant something else" because you can similarly define away any other word you don't like.

As Cluny points out, you can't marry Christianity to any philosophy or political movement. When you do, you make Christianity subordinate to ANY secular agenda - a marriage made in hell.

Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, BUT unto God what is God's. Satan offered him secular power, something Jesus wisely refused (but sadly, many churches have not).
---StrongAxe on 12/26/13




\\I often get too frustrated with all the liberalism on a site that is supposed to be Christian\\

Christianity has no social or political program, and should not be used as an adjunct to one.

CSL, through the voice of Screwtape, talks of the grave spiritual danger of trying to do so. "Christianity and the crisis, Christianity and the new psychology, Christianity and spelling reform...It doesn't matter what the cause is, as long as you try to make him a Christian with a Difference, where Christianity becomes the reason to support worldly causes."

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/13



Jed, I ask your forgiveness. I should not have said that. Please forgive me and pray for me.

---Monk_Brendan on 12/24/13


Brendan, I forgive you. And I will also ask you and everyone to forgive me for at times being to harsh with my words. I think this site can bring out the worst in folks. I often get too frustrated with all the liberalism on a site that is supposed to be Christian. I think we all at times can let others on this site get the best of us. And I think bloggers can fall into an addiction for arguing. For this reason, I think I am going to take a long overdue break from this site for a while.
---Jed on 12/25/13


\\In a different thread I said: May you get everything you deserve when you stand in front of Him on judgement day. ---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/13\\

Good point.

NONE of us here want what we deserve. We want BETTER than that, namely God's mercy and the Kingdom of Heaven.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/13


In a different thread I said: May you get everything you deserve when you stand in front of Him on judgement day. ---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/13


Jed, I ask your forgiveness. I should not have said that. Please forgive me and pray for me.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/24/13


And again, the Talmud is Jewish law, not God's Law.
Jesus spoke directly about this.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
--Thou shalt not kill is a commandment of God.
---micha9344 on 12/24/13




Shira4368, I was responding to a question by Cluny about Jewish ceremonial law and is getting tight on space to specifically address it to Cluny. If you were able to read Hebrew you would know what I said was correct according to old testament scripture. Gen 3:7. Read it in Hebrew Shira4368.
---Blogger9211 on 12/24/13


"my heart bleeds for babies are killed so the parents keep having more and more." This is not what Blogger was referring to. You refer to abortions for convenience whereas as Blogger refers to abortions to save a mother's life.
---Rita_H on 12/24/13


blogger, you are so wrong in saying a baby isn't fully a person until its outside of the body that carried it. any unborn baby is just as much alive as you are. it has everything you have, especially a heartbeat. my heart bleeds for babies are killed so the parents keep having more and more. America has much blood on its hands and we think God is gonna bless America???? so blogger, let me ask you, would you die so your mom could live? would you give her your heart or lungs or liver???
---shira4368 on 12/24/13


Where the mother's life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory.

An unborn child has the status of "potential human life" until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother. Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence. The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother's, because you cannot choose between one human life and another.
---Blogger9211 on 12/23/13


Jesus might not have used the word "hypocrite" very often, but he did talk about Christian hypocrites alot. One good example is the parable of the sheep and the goats. The goats were Christian hypocrites, who were so good at playing the game that they even worked miracles in Jesus' name. But that didn't stop Jesus from saying "depart from me, I never knew you".
---Jed on 12/21/13


Cluny:

Considering that there were no Christians until after Jesus's death, it would have been impossible for him to call any Christians hypocrites. Even so, he DID call Peter "Satan" once.

Those whom he called hypocrites were members of the the Establishment of the "approved religion", and since that time, there have been many Christian hypocrites as well. There was enough mention of such in the writings of the Apostles.
---StrongAxe on 12/20/13


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Someone somewhere--I think it was on here--criticized Christians interrupting a Muslim Festival in Michigan.

This event was not publicized or presented as a Muslim festival, but an ARABIC festival.

As I've said there are Arabic-speaking Christians. I go to one such church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/20/13


Actually, the ones whom Jesus called hypocrites were JEWS, specifically Pharisees and Scribes.

Please give ONE VERSE where Jesus called ANY Christian (fake or otherwise) a hypocrite. Cluny

So you are saying that a person who says they are a Christian is always a Christian even if they do not love others as required in First John.

You also seem to be saying the Gospels are not for the church since it is JESUS talking to Jews. But the Apostles wrote the Gospels for the church.

Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This passage is about the second coming. That includes Christians.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/20/13


\\JESUS talked about fake Christian, called Hypocrites, actors who say right words but do not love others. \\

Actually, the ones whom Jesus called hypocrites were JEWS, specifically Pharisees and Scribes.

Please give ONE VERSE where Jesus called ANY Christian (fake or otherwise) a hypocrite.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/19/13



You claim to be a Christian but have yet to post anything that shows love and compassion for the poor.

---NurseRobert on 12/19/13


That is an outright lie! In fact, I have never seen YOU show compassion for the poor. I have always ALWAYS advocated people giving to the poor out of their own free will poor, aside from government welfare. I probably give much more of my income to the poor than you do, both through taxes and through my own free will. That is true compassion, yet I have never seen you preach that! You preach fake compassion that involves forcibly taking other people's hard earned money and buying votes with it and enslaving children into poverty.
---Jed on 12/19/13


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True people who claim to be Christian try to bring on persecution so they can reaffirm their beliefs.

JESUS talked about fake Christian, called Hypocrites, actors who say right words but do not love others. Christians are to be known by their love of others. The word used there is Agape in the King James often translated as Charity.

It means to care and thing of others with no reward for themselves.

While there are no death threats or murders of Christians in the U.S. at this time. Economic sanctions are being imposed if your faith contradicts the Social line.

On the other hand many who call themselves Christians do not care about those who are poor. Not actively trying to help others is not acting like JESUS.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/19/13


Authority?? Give me a break, Jed. As I said, in the time I've been on CN (since 2005), I made it a point to not question if someone says they are a Christian. Then you started posting. Mark, on the other hand, has YET to either answer the question or prove his point.

Your posts show spite, animosity, and outright hatred for those who disagree with you. You claim to be a Christian but have yet to post anything that shows love and compassion for the poor. And you call me a hypocrite??
---NurseRobert on 12/19/13


Nurseroberts, there is people like you out there that when something terrible happens they blame a Christian for it. Movies are made out of people like you. You use the name Christian just because someone calls himself one. But the genuine Christians do not go about murdering the unborn by sucking their brains out with a vacuum. That is not the love Jesus Christ was talking about. While a true Christian does fail, his conduct is different then those of the world. The problem is you don't want to make the distinction, so you blame all Christians. So go ahead and judge all Christians, that is what liberals do.
---Mark_V. on 12/19/13



Yes, Jed, I did and I'm still standing by that. In the time I've been on this blog I have questions others beliefs (as well as my own), but have never come out and flatly accused someone of not being a Christian. With you, I have to rethink that. ---NurseRobert on 12/18/13


So YOU have the authority to determine if someone is a true Christian or not, but others like MarkV do not have the authority to do this? What makes you so special that you can determine that I'm a "pseudo-Christian", but MarkV can't say that about others? Typical liberal hypocrisy!

Like I said, it's easy to determine who is a true Christian and who is a pseudo-Christian, do they obey the Bible?
---Jed on 12/18/13


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Interestingly, I distinctly remember NurseRoberts calling me a "pseudo-Christian"
---Jed on 12/17/13

Yes, Jed, I did and I'm still standing by that. In the time I've been on this blog I have questions others beliefs (as well as my own), but have never come out and flatly accused someone of not being a Christian. With you, I have to rethink that.

My response was to Mark and his claim about "true Christians". Christians love to play the victim and claim persecution, but somehow, don't see it when others are persecuted. Just the other day, a "Christian" woman assualted a SA bell ringer because she said "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".
---NurseRobert on 12/18/13


\\Warwick, it the time of Christ abortion was mandatory if the life of the mother was in jeopardy during child birth as actual life took presentence over potential life.\\

Can you give documentation for this, Blogger?

St. John Chrysostom, who invented expository preaching, said this about abortion, "Not only do you made a woman an adultress, but you turn her into a murderer with abortifacients."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/18/13


NurseRobert, it is easy to pick the real Christians from the nominal ones by their attitude to Scripture. As it is Jesus' word how we treat it defines whether we truly follow Him or not.

As Jed says the pseudo-Christians are easy to pick. Some are more cunning and hide their true beliefs but the evasion is there for all to see.
---Warwick on 12/18/13


Blogger, statistics and personal research show the majority of abortions are done for economic convenience, not for life-threatening reasons.

Don't imagine most of these people are dirt-poor who cannot afford to support another child. The experience of people to whom I have spoken (nurses involved) show they are far more likely to be in a good economic situation.

There will always be situations where one life is chosen over another. For reasons of lack of resources doctors often have to chose who will be treated, and who won't. However economic convenience cannot be compared to this.
---Warwick on 12/17/13


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Interestingly, I distinctly remember NurseRoberts calling me a "pseudo-Christian" on another thread. Now he pretends to be unfamiliar with the concept of pseudo-Christians vs. true Christians, and suggests that anyone who labels themselves as a Christian should be considered as such. Us true Christians know who we are. And the pseudo-Christians are obvious. True Christians obey God's Word. Pseudo-Christians obey their own humanistic reasoning, despite it's obvious conflicts with God's Word. Pseudo-Christians condemn morality and promote immorality because they can somehow justify it in their own mind, but certainly not with God's Word.
---Jed on 12/17/13


Mark "True Christians"?? Such as? Who decides who these true Christians are? You? Jed? Warwick? Monk? Cluny? Me?
You're statement that true Christians wouldn't do that is a cop out. Our history has many, many examples of "true Christians" persecuting others all the while claiming, and sincerely believing, to be Christian.
---NurseRobert on 12/17/13


Christ knew the Jewish law and never condemned it. The procedure was to dismember the fetus so that mother might live to have other children.-Blogger9211 on 12/17/13
--I must apologize, I cannot find that anywhere in the Pentateuch.
If I am not mistaken, then Jesus did have something to say about all the additions to the Law that were added by the religious and political leaders.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
I did find:
Psalms 106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
---micha9344 on 12/17/13


Warwick, it the time of Christ abortion was mandatory if the life of the mother was in jeopardy during child birth as actual life took presentence over potential life. Christ knew the Jewish law and never condemned it. The procedure was to dismember the fetus so that mother might live to have other children.
---Blogger9211 on 12/17/13


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Nurseroberts, you answered my question very clearly when you said:
" Do I believe there are those who don't like Christians and treat them bad? Yeah, I do." Great, you admit it. Then say:
" Do these people "persecute" Christians? No, they don't, not anymore than some Christians persecute Muslims" genuine Christians do not persecute anyone nor do they vote to suck the brains out of babies while the baby is still in the womb.
You are confusing people from the world persecuting Muslim's, Hindu's and others. Only they do those things you mentioned. while you might call them Christians so you can back up your liberal cause, they are not genuine Christians.
---Mark_V. on 12/17/13


Jed I wonder how God sees abortion? Does He anywhere tell us we can choose to kill our children if they are inconvenient? Last time I looked about One million unborn children were killed in the US each year. This is slaughter on a grand scale.

Our Lord and King Jesus makes it very clear "And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me."

What bothers me is that we in many countries have become so accustomed to this slaughter some think we can choose to kill.
---Warwick on 12/16/13



yes, I believe that people should have the right to choose abortion if they feel it is right for them.
---NurseRobert on 12/16/13


Wow! What a sick and perverted stand! It is your right to kill your kids if it's right for you? Wow. Completely sick!
---Jed on 12/16/13


NurseRobert, you asked: Hogwash... selling their daughters?? Tell us when and where that happened..

Here in America, in mostly Muslim areas, like Deerfield, MI you will find men talking about a dowry gift to the bride's family. Without such a gift, there will be no arranged marriage. It might be nice flowery language, but the meaning is the same, a man selling his daughter.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/16/13


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Mark, yes, I'm a liberal. I've never denied that and, since you have chosen to attempt a diversion, instead of answering the question, yes, I believe that people should have the right to choose abortion if they feel it is right for them. Your point is what?

My answers against Christianity?? What answers are those? The ones challenging you to back up your statements.

It's a simple concept, Mark. You stated a fact, and you were asked to back it up. Do I believe there are those who don't like Christians and treat them bad? Yeah, I do. Do these people "persecute" Christians? No, they don't, not anymore than some Christians persecute Muslims, Hindus and any one else who chooses to believe differently.
---NurseRobert on 12/16/13


The Pentecostal experience with tongues belief did not ever stop. I found it continued on down thru centuries,and could be found in many different denominations. What you refer to 100 years ago was a renewed Pentecostal outpouring of the Holy Ghost with tongues. Now all Pentecostal denominations are bundled with protestant and are larger than Orthodox. Now it is Catholic,Protestant,and then Orthodox making them third. The information I found saying Pentecostal Denomination was the second largest was a few years ago,not sure where I found it then.
---Darlene_1 on 12/16/13


\Pentecostal and all of that type have been persecuted for hundreds of years,....\\

The Pentecostal movement is only little more than 100 years old, so Pentecostals could hardly have been persecuted for "hundreds of ears."

The second largest Church is ORTHODOXY, not Pentecostals.

**That doesn't mean we can't talk about it and try to change our society for the better.**

When St. Paul told us to pray "for rulers and all in authority," is was not for them to "accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior" and change society, but simply that they would leave us alone, so that we could live "quiet lives in godliness."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/13


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears,
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
--Maybe Pentecostal isn't of God.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
---micha9344 on 12/16/13


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Pentecostal and all of that type have been persecuted for hundreds of years,but take heart Christians,they are the second largest church in the world. That tells me that no matter how many put Christians down God will bring them up becaue our God is stronger than all others put together. Glory to God !!
---Darlene_1 on 12/16/13



\\the social persecution suffered by Christians in America is worse than living in a country where Christianity is fully outlawed.\\

The two are not the same.


I never said they were.

In any case, Jesus warned us that it goes with the territory. ---Cluny on 12/16/13

That doesn't mean we can't talk about it and try to change our society for the better.
---Jed on 12/16/13


\\Nurseroberts, I know by your answers against Christianity\\

Back atcha, MarkV.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/13


Nurseroberts, I know by your answers against Christianity that you are a liberal at heart. You vote that way, and believe in the rights of individuals to abort babies. So trying to convince you that Christian's are persecuted here in the States will be against your believes so why try.
I have listened to you for a long time, just hardly ever answer any of your remarks because this subjects are in the personal level. So no matter what I put down from the ACLU it will not make any difference to your believes and will not change a thing. So ok, you can believe what you want, that there is no persecution of Christians in the states. If you feel that way that is your choice.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/13


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\\the social persecution suffered by Christians in America is worse than living in a country where Christianity is fully outlawed.\\

The two are not the same.

In any case, Jesus warned us that it goes with the territory.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/13


I have heard from missionaries who have served in countries that are violently hostile to Christians, even where Christianity is outlawed, that it is harder to serve the Lord in America than in those countries. Because while it may not be completely illegal to be a Christian in America (although many Christians have been sued and charged with hate crimes for their beliefs), the social persecution suffered by Christians in America is worse than living in a country where Christianity is fully outlawed.
---Jed on 12/15/13


\\Nurseroberts and Cluny, ok, you guys are right, there is no persecution of Christians in America.\\

MarkV, please tell me where I said there was no persecutions of Christians in America.

You, however, were the one who said it had been going on in the USA for centuries, yet gave NOTHING to back up your claim.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/13


Folks, we are seeing just the beginning here in America. We haven't seen nothing yet. All this started with the idol called Cassius clay. Then the seventies it was a one woman champagne to get prayer our of schools. She was a nasty foul mouth heathen but she got what she wanted and its been down hill ever since.
---shira4368 on 12/15/13


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Cluny, how is it Christian to go to a muslim festival with the intent of disrupting it?

Mark, statements were made and we asked for proof to back them up. Do you not have proof? Do you have any idea of what persecution is? Your "liberal" statement is so typical of what I find in right wingers.

Try proving the statement.
---NurseRobert on 12/15/13


Nurseroberts and Cluny, ok, you guys are right, there is no persecution of Christians in America. I do not care to put down the cases the ACLU has gone through for the Christians, or the centuries Christians have struggled here in the states. Of course it is not the same kind of persecution that happens in other countries, but no matter what I put down, it will not change the minds of those who don't really care to listen. I rather stay away from personal arguments and concentrate in the doctrines of Scripture.

Can a political liberal be changed? I don't think so. Once a liberal, always a liberal.
---Mark_V. on 12/15/13


Ex-Catholic:

You asked: Monk: Please give an example of where Sharia Law is the law here in Michigan, where I live.

While Sharia was not legislated, it was certainly being enforced. Google: dearborn christian persecution to read about the case in 2010 where Christians were arrested at an Arab festival in Dearborn. This was an Arab festival, not a Muslim festival. Participants had no legal grounds to complain about Arab Christians peacibly exercising free speech. Yet the Dearborn police arrested them for disturbing the peace, when the only people getting angry were the Muslims.
---StrongAxe on 12/14/13


\\you will find men selling their daughters, women in burqa, and so on.
---
Hogwash... selling their daughters?? Tell us when and where that happened..\\

I don't know about what Brendan mentioned, but I can tell you about this:

In and around Dearborn, MI, there's a big mahometan community. Any vehicle that has an Israeli flag is vandalized or attacked when in motion.

Christians are forbidden by the local police from attending Arab festivals, even though there is an appreciable minority of Arabophones who are Christian. I go to one of their churches.

Will these examples do?

I could tell you how you can verify this, but the rules forbid giving web sites.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/13


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you will find men selling their daughters, women in burqa, and so on.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/14/13

Hogwash... selling their daughters?? Tell us when and where that happened..
---NurseRobert on 12/14/13


In America, there is "soft" persecution.
---willie_c: on 12/14/13


\\And try preaching the word of God after sunset just for starter?\\

People reacting unfavorably when you are obnoxious in the Name of Jesus is NOT the same thing as persecution.

Being chased by three mahometans into your own house and getting killed because you would not renounce Jesus and become mahometan, as Brendan has already described, IS persecution.

Too bad you can't tell the difference.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/13


Monk: Please give an example of where Sharia Law is the law here in Michigan, where I live.
---Ex-Catholic on 12/13/13

I said de facto not de jure. However, in some of the suburbs of Detroit where there is a large Arabic population, then you will find men selling their daughters, women in burqa, and so on.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/14/13


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Look at what the ACLU is doing to keep Christ out of Christmas.

But did you know that parts of Michigan are already under a de facto state of Sharia law?

---Monk_Brendan

Monk, please explain just what the ACLU has done.

Tell us about the Sharia Law? Give us an example.

The persecution of Christians has been going on for centuries here in America---Mark_V. on 12/13/13

Mark, Give us some examples...
---NurseRobert on 12/14/13


Why dont you guys go down to Bourbon Street, Louisiana USA.
And try preaching the word of God after sunset just for starter?
And dont worry there is no persecution in America!

Oh wow, you guys should get out more!
Thats all I have to say.
Peace
---TheSeg on 12/13/13


I doubt if anyone in America has experienced any sort of persecution. markv, I would like to know where. someone not agreeing with you is not persecution. Christians in America are much blessed. real persecution is off with your head, tied to a tree to starve to death like muslims did a 2 yr old girl in cairo. took her 3 days to die. that is persecution.
---shira4368 on 12/13/13


Monk: Please give an example of where Sharia Law is the law here in Michigan, where I live.
---Ex-Catholic on 12/13/13


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\\The persecution of Christians has been going on for centuries here in America that is true.\\

Can you give any concrete examples of persecution of Christian in America from centuries past?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/13/13


Monk, you look at things from a different perspective. The persecution of Christians has been going on for centuries here in America that is true. It does not stop at anytime. It will continue everywhere around the world.
But from a different perspective, the persecutions don't happen here like they do in other parts of the world, where they are murdered in the millions. In fact we are lucky those things do not happen here. We are really blessed we have the country we have. That to me is a blessing from God.
---Mark_V. on 12/13/13


Calling Orthodoxy worldly and denominational doesn't mean it is.

OTOH, everything that is not Orthodoxy IS worldly and denominational by definition.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/12/13


Mark V said, "Monk, nothing is happening that is not in the plan of God. ...

Granted! I never said otherwise. I am just pointing out that the persecution of Christians is beginning here in American with the little things like no sacred Christmas songs. But did you know that parts of Michigan are already under a de facto state of Sharia law?
---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/13


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Monk, nothing is happening that is not in the plan of God. God is in complete control of all things. The future shouldn't scare us. We vote our conscience, do what we are called to do, and leave the rest to God. God permits the ACLU to function. If He did not want them there, they would not exist. Just like every president in office, they are their by permission of God, for a purpose only He knows.
Everything has a purpose in the plan of God. Nothing is out of order with God. Maybe in our eyes it is, but not in His. He gains no knowledge from anything, He is all knowing.
"He upholds all things by the Word of His power" (Heb. 1:3).
"He is before all things, and in Him all things consist," (Col. 1:17).
---Mark_V. on 12/12/13


monk, I can see now what is going on in the U.S. I think older people have wisdom as to how things are happening in the world and the U.S. It won't affect us older generation but it will affect my grandchildren. not many of the young folks have never heard a sermon and most have never experienced the Holy Spirit at work.
---shira4368 on 12/11/13



In any case, I've already told you that Orthodoxy is neither worldly nor denominational. ---Cluny on 12/11/13


And Steveng has already told you the same thing about his church! What? You can't take what you dish out to others? You mean you don't like it when someone calls your church a worldly denominational church? Oh you poor baby! Poor little Cluny's going to sit in the corner in cry because he can't handle when someone stands up to the bully on the playground. Someone please find his pacifier!
---Jed on 12/11/13


Mark V said: " Steven, what is happening in other countries will never happen here..."

Don't be too sure about that. The time is coming when all over the world--and that includes America--Christianity will be persecuted. It is happening now. Look at what the ACLU is doing to keep Christ out of Christmas. There are places here in America where children can't sing any sacred Christmas songs. Frosty the Snowman and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer are okay, but Silent Night is forbidden.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/11/13


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Jed said: "When Christians are forced underground, that will include your own worldly denominational church.
---Cluny on 12/11/13

But not yours, I'm sure!"

Jed, Cluny is an Orthodox Christian. I am an Eastern Catholic--as opposed to Roman Catholic--and there are three brothers in my parish whose father was cornered in the basement of his house in Lebanon, and was told to convert to Islam or die. He chose death rather than to renounce Christ. The same thing can and will happen in America, in Cluny's church, in mine, and in yours. Don't think it won't!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/11/13


\\When Christians are forced underground, that will include your own worldly denominational church.
---Cluny on 12/11/13

But not yours, I'm sure!
---Jed on 12/11/13\\

Apparently, you're not aware of what's going on with Orthodox Christians in Syria and Iraq, or what happened in Russia.

In any case, I've already told you that Orthodoxy is neither worldly nor denominational.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/13


Steven, what is happening in other countries will never happen here. Christians have been fighting for their lives from the time God put the curse on mankind. I do not know what kind of underground you are speaking of, but no Christian I know is going to hide. Maybe those you know have talked about it, no one I know has.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/13


When persecution rises, the gospel spreads. Comfortable Christians don't share the message, as a general rule. Plus, we have been called for the purpose of suffering, which Christ left as an example for us to follow - 2Peter 2:20-21
---James_L on 12/11/13


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When Christians are forced underground, that will include your own worldly denominational church.
---Cluny on 12/11/13


But not yours, I'm sure!
---Jed on 12/11/13


No more alarming than has happened before, Steveng.

When Christians are forced underground, that will include your own worldly denominational church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/13


If Christians are forced underground in our lifetimes, it won't be for the first time, and if Jesus tarries, it probably won't be the last, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/13


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