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A Sin To Forgive

Luke tells us that if a brother trespasses against us, rebuke him, and IF HE REPENTS forgive him. Is this because God only forgives if we repent? Is it a SIN for me to forgive even though I don't get an apology beforehand?

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 ---Geraldine on 12/27/13
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2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation."
21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

2 Peter 3:2 "That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior:"[...]


Luke 24:47 repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

God knows exactly where the children of Israel are (both Houses whether scattered or not.) Used as witness in an order of arrangement.Isa48,49
Gen 48:20
Jn3:15-16
---char on 1/12/14


Context, context, If God is not willing that any should perish, none would perish for He is an Omnipotent God. If (2 Peter 3:9) was speaking of all humanity, then all humanity would be saved and none would be lost.
"He doeth according to "His will" in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35). For
"He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? and what His soul desireth, even that He doeth" (Job 23:13).
"Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did He in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places" (Psa. 135:6).
If He was willing that no one should perish, no one would perish.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/14


******************

char & shira: Reasoning with MarkV is like trying to push a rope - very frustrating and not very productive. How can you have an intellectual discussion with someone who believes that Adam & Eve's original sin of trusting Satan's word over God's was God's fault and not theirs? What can a Christian have in common with someone who thinks that Jesus came to save the "elect" rather than the "lost"?

Further, it frustrates me that Geraldine can't get her blog question discussed because of him.

*****************

---jerry6593 on 1/13/14


//char, amen and amen
---shira_4368 on 1/12/14//

Praise God He Exist So... Complete.

Bless you sister,

Shalom
---char on 1/12/14


//Died lost// The living God uses Israel(witnesses that He Exist -"I Am") Isa44,45

'Lost' - Defined within His Word

Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Jer50:6,

Isa25:8
8 He will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces, and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Cor 15:54 [...]Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

He Exist forgiving...

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
---char on 1/12/14




//Universal salvation-Mark_V. on 1/12/14// were is this written?

//[...]God is not willing that any them[...] --Mark_V. on 1/12/14//
Agreed.

Being 'set aside'//for specific missions or to witness to specific people...//
Stated previously, Peter is addressing [strangers scattered] Elected: from
"Ten tribes" of the house of Israel. Lev19:2 Lev19:2 Speak unto [all the congregation of the children of Israel],1Pet1:15-16

1 Pet 1(all) "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,[ to the strangers scattered] throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"
2Pet 3(all) "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you, in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance,"
---char on 1/12/14


/died in their sins rebelling against God,[..]---Mark_V. on 1/12/14////

(wages of sin is death)-

Because of sin the spirits were enslaved to prision, but,
Those wages were Paid for by the Death and Resurrection of Ysha Elohyims Word (Christ/anointed/confirmed) by Him alone.
1 Pet3:
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
---char on 1/12/14


char, amen and amen
---shira_4368 on 1/12/14


//I do not believe 'chosen or elected' means 'chosen' or 'elected' to exclusively be saved - others being excluded.//
Char, thank you for this statement
---michael_e on 1/12/14


Interpretation of (2 Peter 3:9) this passage is not saying God is not willing that all (every single individual ) come to repentance since by the time Peter wrote this millions had already died in their sins rebelling against God, and died lost. And if He is not willing that none be lost, that would mean no one is lost and there is Universal salvation, "and there is no universal salvation."
The passage is speaking of the beloved (v.8) those he is writing and speaking to, God is not willing that any them should perish but that all come to repentance.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/14




//in the "chosen".---shira4368 on 1/10/14//

So, I must clarify - No.

I do not believe 'chosen or elected' means 'chosen' or 'elected' to exclusively be saved - others being excluded.

Elohyim has chosen and elected some that will be used for specific missions or to witness to specific people...

Why?
Because...

2 Pet 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

//"men of every kindred, tribe, tongue, and race" as opposed to Jews only//

Hope that clears things up -I will try to express it better if not.

Shalom
---char on 1/12/14


Kathr, if you understood the bible you would have understood that the elect are those chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved. They (the elect) were not saved yet, they had not been born yet. But when they were born they were born lost like all descendants of Adam are born. All believers in Christ are the elect of God. In the Old T. almost all were from Israel, in the New, both Jews and Gentiles together who are saved are of the elect. You should have made your election sure, but instead you speaks against the elect.
"Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen" (Rom. 8:33).
---Mark_V. on 1/12/14


Jesus's "forgiveness" of humanity HAPPENED ("It is DONE"). Do NOT say otherwise, it HAPPENED and will stand FOREVER (ETERNALLY)....or do you have a lack of faith (shame on you).

DO NOT chew anybody out ("rebuke" means to "chew out").....REPROVE them (prove what is the RIGHT THING to do).

Bible translators took alot of liberties in choosing what words they would use to explain verses/passages (and they usually missed the mark).
---faithforfaith on 1/11/14


An unbeliever is someone who has made a choice not to believe Jesus died for their sin. You can't "label " someone an unbeliever who has never heard the Gospel. Markv, stop playing word games here. So technically Markv is misusing the word unbeliever as all the unelect, whether they have heard the gospel or not. No scripture makes this claim.

It's Nonsense double talk.


Markv, you continually put nonsense here without scripture. Just like saying the "lost" are the elect Jesus is searching for who are the elect.

How did the elect get lost? Did God lose them?
---kathr4453 on 1/11/14


Not everyone who says, Lord, Lord, will enter. God comes to the individual rather than the individual going to God. What makes Christianity so different from other religions. Calling out to God to save me, simply means, HELP.
---catherine on 1/11/14


// God will save anyone who calls on His name. Acts 2:21 ---shira4368 on 1/10/14//

I Agree.

Sister,read again.
Some have been elected and chosen by God (from before the foundation of this world) to witness to specific people and do a specific mission So who so ever believeJn3:15-16

Being a witness of Gods character within
- others see - God is a forgiving God of love.1Thes 1:8

I Thes2:13 "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received [the word of God which ye heard of us], [ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth],

[the word of God, which effectually worketh ...

also-

in you that believe."]
---char on 1/11/14


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Prove through scripture ONLY those who are already born again call on God.

How can anyone call without first HEARING the Gospel? So faith comes by HEARING, not by being Born Again first. Not one verse says faith comes by election. If that were true ALL Israel from the beginning of the Nation would first be born agin to have faith. God's ELECT Israel proves no such thing happens, then or now. YOU preach a false Gospel Markv.
---kathr4453 on 1/11/14


//I know God does call some pastors and some missionaries--shira4368 on 1/10/14//
Agree

Called 'before the foundation'
Elohyims Timeless

Jer 1:4-10'"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, Before you were born I sanctified you, I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

God's not subject to time-created it- for Salvation.

//[...]we are all to be a witness[...] ---shira4368 on 1/10/14//

Agree.

I Thes2:13 "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received [the word of God which ye heard of us], [ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth],

[the word of God, which effectually worketh

also-

in you that believe."]
---char on 1/11/14


Shira, you now say,
" God will save anyone who calls on His name. Acts 2:21 and it shall come to pass that whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. that pretty well sums it up." It sure does, because only those who are born of God call on the name of the Lord. Unbelievers do not have faith in God why would they call on God? They don't love God, they are children of wrath. Did you not read what (Eph. 2:3) says about the lost, before God makes them spiritually alive?
"among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others"
---Mark_V. on 1/11/14


yes, you should forgive even tho the person don't ask you. you do this for yourself and not the person who should ask you to forgive. I see char has joined markv in the "chosen". I don't understand why some believe part of the bible but not the whole bible. I know God does call some pastors and some missionaries but we are all to be a witness. oh yea we will get laughed at but just let it go over your head and keep being a witness. God will save anyone who calls on His name. Acts 2:21 and it shall come to pass that whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. that pretty well sums it up.
---shira4368 on 1/10/14


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The idea that God's business is to forgive and thus forgiveness is secured by any and all who ask, regardless of intent, has no biblical ground. I remember one time when I was asking God to forgive me of a specific sin, it looked to me that God was taking His ever-loving time in this thing. He didn't come running back into my arms right away, and I was beginning to get a little nervous. Sin is nothing to play around with, thinking that God is gonna forgive me....Rebuke in private. Smother not the resentment, but give it vent. You may find out, you misunderstood him, and beg for his pardon[ Luke 17:3]. Do this save sanity.
---catherine on 1/11/14


Lk14:45-47,17:4 Have a forgiving heart - use discernment.
----------
God elected some - choosing them - before the foundation of the world to be a 'sent out' vessel for Him - as witnesses to bear His Name before 'Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel

[...]so that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.Jn3:15-16

Acts 9:15"But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

Not all who claim to be elected and chosen by God - are.

Elohyims vessels are (manner of men) that witness to and of His Name - 'The Word of Lord'.

Not traditions of men. 1Thes1:5
---char on 1/10/14


Rom. 1:19-21) they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful (v. 1:21).

---Mark_V. on 1/10/14


SO YOU ADMIT MAN DID THIS TO HIMSELF, AND GOD DID NOT DO IT TO MAN CORRECT???? That's what the verses say .

So are you saying that at some point AFTER man seered his own conscience God's PLAN of salvation changed, because man has more power than God and man messed up God's plan. So tell us WHAT YEAR did God change His plan and chose then to elect certain people. When Cain was still here, man had not yet seered their own conscience. that was a process NOT INHERITED through genes. every new born baby has a conscience as though he were born from the time of Adam's sin. No one is BORN with a seered conscience.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/14


Kathr, you say,
" where in the Gospel is God going to judge the un-elect by their un-electness?"
Only the elect of God receive the Word of God with power and the Holy Spirit. The rest are lost.
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in Word only, but also with power, and with the Holy Spirit and much assurance.." (1 Thess. 1:4,5).
Then say, how can God use the Gospel of the "GOOD NEWS" to do that?
Here's why,
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made" (Rom. 1:19-21) they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful (v. 1:21).
---Mark_V. on 1/10/14


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Elect: from the [Ten tribes] of the house of Israel

1Pet 1:10
"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"

15-16
"But as He Which hath [called you is holy, so be ye holy] in all manner of conversation:"
"Because it is written,

["Be ye holy, for I am holy."]

Lev19:2 Speak unto [all the congregation of the children of Israel], and say unto them,

[Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.]

20:26 [And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy,]

and have severed you from other people, that [ye should be mine]

Ps 22, Isa 44,Isa 53, Isa9:5-7
---char on 1/9/14


Markv, where in the Gospel is God going to judge the un-elect by their un-electness?

If God has chosen to elect people to HELL, how can God use the Gospel of the "GOOD NEWS" to do that?

What you fail to understand is the GOSPEL was first stated in Genesis 3:15 and EXPOUNDED upon through out time, thru ABRAHAM. The Gospel was NOT just given to Israel and everyone else kept blind. Please re-read Romans 4 for your information. Abraham was IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS by Faith long before the Law of Moses ever came into effect.

AND this is the bologna you base your election on????
---kathr4453 on 1/9/14


Elected: from
"Ten tribes" of the house of Israel

I Pet 1(all)

1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the [strangers scattered]
throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"

Apostle: "one sent forth"

Peter is to take the Word of God to the ["Ten tribes of the house of Israel"] that God [chose and elected] before the foundation of the world [to be scattered and dispersed] throughout...

"to the strangers scattered throughout'

2 "Elect, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."
---char on 1/9/14


Kathr, the Bible tells me your wrong and don't understand a thing. You give,
"Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

If you understood, you would know chap. 2 is about judgment. It's not talking about teaching the gospel to every single person, but that every single person will be judge by the gospel.
Then say:
"Again scripture tells us NOAH also preached the Gospel before the flood.
1 Peter 4:6"
The passage is speaking of those who heard and accepted the gospel of Christ when they were still alive, but had died by the time Peter wrote this letter. Though they were dead physically they were alive in their spirit (Heb. 12:23).
---Mark_V. on 1/9/14


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Right from the beginning of Romans "B4 the LAW", scripture tells us man does know about the Gospel. This is how God will judge EVERY SINGLE HUMAN FROM ADAM to the end.

READ:
Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Again scripture tells us NOAH also preached the Gospel before the flood.
1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


So Markv YOU ARE WRONG according to the WORD OF GOD!
---kathr4453 on 1/9/14


Shira, go ahead and tell those who will hear you to not listen. That's your calling. Those lost do not understand anyway. Because there is none who seek after God. They seek their own glory as long as they are at enmity against God. You get nauseated every time you hear it is God who saves individuals.

Kathr, you say,
"markv, and this is the Gospel God has offered to all lost." first, not all the lost in the world will hear the gospel. Before Christ death, the gospel was given only to Israel and not the other nations, and they died in their sins. Second, when it is offered to those who are lost, many times the gospel does not come to them in power and in the Holy Spirit. So many will never believe (1 Thess 1:4,5).
---Mark_V. on 1/9/14


Shira, your shocked on what I wrote, you say,
"make your call and election sure???? I don't know where you come up with some of this stuff."
you don't know because you are blind and do not see,
"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent "to make your call and election sure," for if you do these things you will never stumble, for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:10,11). Which is explained in (1 Thess. 4,5).
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in Word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit with much assurance.."
---Mark_V. on 1/9/14


jerry, markv is not anyone you should listen to. God did send His Son to die for the world. yes, God knew us before the foundation of the world. do you think that means just the "elect" are known before the foundation of the world??? that is part one of what markv teaches that is false. God knew every single person and He sent His Son to die for every person. every single person has a chance to be saved. that is why we have missionaries, preachers, witnesses. otherwise if markv was right, we wouldn't even need a church.
---shira4368 on 1/8/14


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Mark V said:...The atonement is sufficient to save all but only limited to those who are of the elect of God...

Mark, God's love is over all. His salvation is for all. The atonement is for all. The only way that you can understand anything else is to say that God has created some men specifically to go to hell. Is this true? NO! God's grace is for all, and if any repent and ask for God's grace He will give it.

Pray for me.
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 1/8/14


Marks, again please provide scripture for the inward call vs outward call. Is this another theory NOT found in scripture? No such verse has any word using INWARD call.. Exactly how does the INWARD call work vs the outward call. Are you saying the elect have some inward call button God rings, and all others have an outward call button no one can access, not even God.

MORE Gnosticism at work. Will he ever quit this nonsense?
---kathr4453 on 1/8/14


But God is the giver of life. Those who are dead cannot create life in their bodies. Only God can create spiritual life.
---Mark_V. on 1/8/14

markv, and this is the Gospel God has offered to all lost. ON:LY by one identifying with Jesus in death and resurrection life can one have life, that is have the RISEN LIFE OF CHRIST in them. it's life out of death. Not the death you were born with, as in Adam all die, but ANOTHER DEATH, where you choose to DIE WITH CHRIST to be raised up together with Him.

THAT DEATH is to die to sin and all that belongs to this old world. THAT is a choice we make. That is the Gospel YOU don't believe.
---kathr4453 on 1/8/14


make your call and election sure???? I don't know where you come up with some of this stuff. If my call and election is for sure, what must I do to be good as you to enter heaven? I have ask you that several times and you never answer. you just feel sorry for me because I "may" not be one of the elect. between your version and my version your version is so wrong it reeks of a cult. something is very wrong with you if you don't believe Christ died for everyone. yes, there are those who will never hear the gospel that is why we have missionaries, churches, pastors, witnesses. I have been a Baptist all my life and Ive never heard of one who was as misled as you. even the firmament speaks of God. really it does.
---shira4368 on 1/8/14


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Samuel, the outward call of the gospel goes out unto the world. Meaning every nation and people, it does not mean every single person has heard the gospel. There is many places where people never heard of Jesus Christ.
But the inward call by God only goes out to those who were chosen before the foundation of the world, the elect.

"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent "to make your call and election sure," for if you do these things you will never stumble, for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:10,11).
---Mark_V. on 1/8/14


"there is none who understand, there is none who seek after God" (Rom. 3:11) Very explicit statements, that if you do not see them only means you do not understand. Mark_V.

My disagreement with you does not mean I do not believe exactly what Rom 3:11 says. That is a truth that I accept.

I just also believe when JESUS said He would draw all men unto him. John 12:32

GOD has to call humans to be saved. On that we both agree. You say he limits HIS call. I say HIS call is universal based on scripture. I see no verse that says GOD does not call everyone.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/8/14


Kathr, you say,
"The Bereans searched the scriptures daily to make sure what Paul was telling them was truth. SO be good Bereans people, and steer clear of Gnostics."
There is very few Bereans here but many Gnostics like you. The first thing they say, is that others are gnostics. They jump at the chance to speak against God, and a chance to speak for men. They want their rights over God.
But God is the giver of life. Those who are dead cannot create life in their bodies. Only God can create spiritual life. As we can see not many have spiritual life. Gnostics don't like to hear that. Spiritual matters they do not understand,
There is none who understands, there is none who seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11).
---Mark_V. on 1/8/14


*****************

MarkV: This is a serious blog by a child of God seeking answers from her fellow Christians. As usual, you have hijacked the conversation to rant about the only thing you and your twin, Christan care about - predestination. Get off it! We are not interested. Do you really think that being so obnoxious confirms your pre-elected salvation? Good grief!

***************


---jerry6593 on 1/8/14


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Samuel, just because you do not believe God does the choosing of individuals to His kingdom, and cannot find it in Scripture does not mean it is not there. The problem is that you just don't see. ----
---Mark_V. on 1/7/14

Just an FYI as this is how CULTS work. They tell you only THEY can see the truth not found in scripture through specially revealed knowledge called Gnosticism.

The Bereans searched the scriptures daily to make sure what Paul was telling them was truth. SO be good Bereans people, and steer clear of Gnostics.
---kathr4453 on 1/7/14


Samuel, just because you do not believe God does the choosing of individuals to His kingdom, and cannot find it in Scripture does not mean it is not there. The problem is that you just don't see. So many want to take the glory away from God.
But no matter how you feel, It is God who makes a person alive together with Christ (Eph. 2:4,5). Even while they were dead in sin. And if you do not understand that, only tells me you also do not understand as the Bible tells us.
"there is none who understand, there is none who seek after God" (Rom. 3:11) Very explicit statements, that if you do not see them only means you do not understand.
God has to open your eyes, only He can give you spiritual eye sight.
---Mark_V. on 1/7/14


Hello,Samuelbb thanks! All respect,yes! I love telling that one good thing, she did. she was fun!!

my mother' side of the family,all were giving, loving, help people.

My grand mother would take in people,down on their luck!she would tell me,you got to give up your bed - family coming to stay!

We thought everybody was " family" we did not know race or color nationality..
We call everybody " family!"
my grandmother was greatly loved!
---Lidia4796 on 1/5/14


Dear Lidia4796

Beautiful story. Thank you for posting it.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/5/14


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Dear MavkV. I just read how Calvinists are increasing in a number of Baptist churches and other Non Denominational ones.

Unconditional Election is not found in the Bible. It is a construct from a belief that has no basis of it's own. Limited atonement is also without a Scriptural basis. Irresistible grace or Election is the driving doctrine that forces your understanding of the previous teachings.

But Jesus said:
Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Now Hebrews 10:38,39 says men can draw back from following GOD.

So GOD draws all to Him and gives them the choice to be saved or not. We must let the Bible tell us what is truth. Not decide then go to the Bible for proof.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/5/14


\\Cluny, my point to Monk was that the atonement is only for those who have been chosen by God (2 Thess. 2:13) and are drawn to the Father (John 6:44)\\

And just how do you know you're one of the chosen by God, MarkV?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/5/14


Cluny, my point to Monk was that the atonement is only for those who have been chosen by God (2 Thess. 2:13) and are drawn to the Father (John 6:44) Once they have been made alive together with Christ (Eph. 2:4,5), they are considered righteous through faith. And His atonement is only for them, not for the rest of the wicked and ungodly that were not chosen and made alive by God.
The atonement is only limited to those who are place together with Christ through the grace of God. The atonement is sufficient to save all but only limited to those who are of the elect of God. The atonement does not cover the sins of every individual, otherwise we would have Universal salvation and we don't.
---Mark_V. on 1/5/14


Hello,Shira4368, reminds me
my late mother( athiest) yet, actually took in young lady OFF the Streets! On drugs! made the pimp marry her,my mom told her I will kill you IF you do drugs HERE! She quit!

MOM made the pimp get a job,They GOT married legally!
The girl now is a preacher in the Salvation Army! She credits my late mother weird way made
her GIVE her life to God! "wow,Mom you love people...you could not hate nobody, they lived with us for 8 years!"
---Lidia4796 on 1/4/14


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\\Cluny, it's simple to me. All who are lost are ungodly and wicked.\\

Then if Christ died for the ungodly, as I pointed out in the words of St. Paul, Christ died for the wicked, and you are wrong.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/4/14


Cluny, it's simple to me. All who are lost are ungodly and wicked. There is no one good who is lost for the wrath of God is upon them. They have rebelled against God. All descendants of Adam are heading to hell. They have been found guilty already. By nature they are children of wrath. Sin against God cannot be ignored.
"Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins" (Ecc. 7:20). The unsaved are held captive by the devil.
"God may perhaps granted that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will" (2 Tim. 2:25,26).
Only a supernatural act of God can save a sinner. It is call mercy.
---Mark_V. on 1/4/14


there Is a difference in the ungodly and the wicked. you can be a sinner but not be wicked. many good people are not saved.
---shira4368 on 1/3/14


MarkV makes a curious distinction between the "ungodly" and the "wicked."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/3/14


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you must forgive those who hurt you. if we don't forgive it will eat at us like a cancer. I have forgiven many in my life because I have to live with "me". God knows who did what to me and believe me they will pay but as for me, I forgive them even tho they have never ask for forgiveness.
---shira4368 on 1/2/14


Mark V said: When God saves an individual who is guilty, it is by His grace that he is saved. The individual has no saying in that decision. There is no free will when you are heading to hell.

Mark, please explain something to me. Do you believe in predestination? That is the only thing that I can think that will square with your statement quoted above. If so, then we have nothing to talk about. Pray for this unworthy sinner.

the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 1/2/14


Cluny, good point you bring out. (Rom. 5:6) Does tell us that
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us (believers) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (believers)."
The "us" is believers. We were heading to hell before He saved us. For the next passage tells us,
"Much more then having now been justified by His blood, we (believers) shall be saved from wrath through Him"
But those who have not been saved, who remain wicked, hell is waiting for them.
And the only way they will be saved is if the Word of God comes to them in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 1:4,5).
---Mark_V. on 1/2/14


Monk, let me explain something to you, you might not know. All descendants of Adam are by nature children of wrath. All are found guilty of breaking the laws of God, for none can keep the whole law perfect. They are all condemned already, heading to hell. Nothing can stop that but God's mercy.
When God saves an individual who is guilty, it is by His grace that he is saved. The individual has no saying in that decision. There is no free will when you are heading to hell. Only God can save an individual, and bring him to spiritual life together with Christ.
"For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).
---Mark_V. on 1/1/14


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Forgivness for someone who abuses/sins against you will do more for you than them.

Many don't care how you feel. Forgiveness is something they don't concern themselves with.

When you forgive you release yourself from the bondage of someones else's action.

If you don't have a spirit of forgivness you will live in pain and hurt everyday because of how shallow and uncaring others are.

Forgive 'em let them carry the burden and pain. God corrects and returns what is sowen.

---Elder on 1/1/14


\\"came to seek and to save that which was lost"\\

Who among us was NOT lost until Christ found us?

\\Christ atonement is not for the wicked\\

God says, "Romans 5:6
... in due time Christ died for the ungodly."

Who is right: MarkV or God?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/1/14


Mark V said: ""He died on the Cross for all. His forgiveness is something that can be appropriated by all"
Christ atonement is not for the wicked. If it was, then Jesus died for the wicked also, and they too would be saved..."


No, God's grace is available to all. If a wicked man (and who among us is not wicked) repents, then he is appropriating God's grace that is available to all. It stops being available to him when he dies, but not before. Aren't we taught that the foulest sinner can come to God?
---Monk_Brendan on 1/1/14


Monk, one part you are wrong. It is when you say,
"He died on the Cross for all. His forgiveness is something that can be appropriated by all"
Christ atonement is not for the wicked. If it was, then Jesus died for the wicked also, and they too would be saved. And we would have Universal salvation. But His atonement is only for those who put their faith in Jesus Christ. Those that God draws and gives to Christ. For Jesus
"came to seek and to save that which was lost" And only His sheep will receive salvation.
"I have come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I Am the good Shepherd: The good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep" ( John 10:10,11).
---Mark_V. on 1/1/14


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God loves us all. He died on the Cross for all. His forgiveness is something that can be appropriated by all.

With that in mind, why wait for an apology? If someone says or does something stupid or hurtful to me, as soon as I can, I forgive them. Even if they NEVER apologize, I do not need to carry that burden. I have done it enough with my mother, father, teachers, schoolmates.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/31/13


Great answer willie.

Forgiveness we give freely. But fellowship takes repentance.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/31/13


Hi, Geraldine (c: God bless you (c: Jesus on the cross prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34) I would say they did not first apologize to Jesus before He prayed this.

So, what Jesus could mean, I consider, is that if someone repents you forgive in the way of being reconciled with the person. It means you get back to relating right with each other.

But if the person does not repent, you still pray forgiveness to the person so the person can be effected by love and be changed to receive the forgiveness.

In your heart, you do desire for the person to be forgiven, so in your heart you have already forgiven the person (c:
---willie_c: on 12/31/13


Mat_18:31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desired me: Soundest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother their trespasses.

Take a very good look at the first line, fellow servants!
Just saying, Peace
---TheSeg on 12/28/13


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Sow forgiveness you reap forgiveness, It's a Good thing to forgive people. The word works both ways. Your sowing forgiveness into their life and your life at the same time. Just think about your harvest when you screw up. You have been sowing forgiveness it will be there for you when you need it. What if you have not been sowing forgiveness, but revenge and anger! What do you think you harvest will be? God is not mocked whatever you sow you will reap "Galatians 6:7"
---BRYAN on 12/28/13


I think that is beautifull,Geraldine your post 12/27/2013.
You have a love, a bond with your mother, love does not end,because she is gone. I have a favorite night gown my mother wore and I keep it.

Love of Jesus! Lidia4796
---Lidia4796 on 12/28/13


\\could it mean at least SOME of those we forgive have not apologized or asked for forgiveness but we forgive anyway?
---Geraldine on 12/27/13
\\

Nope. Why should it mean that some might have asked forgiveness first?

We are ALWAYS to be quick to forgive, as we want God to be quick to forgive us.

Remember the story of the Prodigal Son? He had his beautiful forgiveness speech all drafted and ready, and the Father stopped his mouth with a kiss before a word was said.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/13


Cluny, if I have the "spiritual manifestation of OCD" maybe this is proof -or not: My mother died many years ago. I still have her old wheelchair, and every night without fail before bed I go into the garage, pat the arm of the wheelchair, and say "I love you, Mother, good-night."
---Geraldine on 12/27/13


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"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." Romans 4:6-8

Well, this completely debunks the comment by someone who said "Rather, our own forgiveness is tied in with how we forgive others."

To begin, how can one even forgive if he hasn't even received God's forgiveness or as David wrote, "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."
---christan on 12/27/13


Cluny, in the Lord's Prayer, when it says "as we forgive those who trespass against us" could it mean at least SOME of those we forgive have not apologized or asked for forgiveness but we forgive anyway?
---Geraldine on 12/27/13


Mat 18:23-35 ...Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?...So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Mat 5:23-24 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee, Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
---micha9344 on 12/27/13


"Freely you have received, freely give." Don't forget the rest of the book: "Forgive us our sin as we forgive those who sin against us." It is very clear that as a Christian we are to forgive openly and easily. The idea of asking us to forgive our brother when he repents is harder sometimes because we want to see someone suffer for what they have done to us, it's like they got off free sometimes and we hate that it was so easy for God to overlook what they did. Now, scriptures do say, "You will reap what you sow," but I think the implication here is conviction to completely forgive someone and wish them well when they change, not implying only forgive if someone repents. God forgives us. We are not the judge, He is.
---Caleb on 12/27/13


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BTW, you're being scrupulous again, Geraldine. Remember that this is the spiritual manifestation of OCD.

Sounds to me you're worried more about sin than loving God for Himself.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/13


Understand there are two different forgivenesses context. Your first is community based. the second statment is a forgiveness for yourself as in the Lord's prayer. Both are good

Example1: you are in a bible study with someone and he sins against you but then comes and ask forgiveness to rejoin the group.

Example2: same guy sins against you and the subject is not brought up again or he leaves the group. You then hold onto the bitterness created by the sin wanting him to forgive. This is where you forgiving him makes a difference because you will be stuck in bitterness and in most cases he will move on.

God forgives us more than we even know or imagine.
---Scott1 on 12/27/13


No, it is not, Geraldine.

Remember the Lord's prayer? "Forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE those who trespass against us."

Rather, our own forgiveness is tied in with how we forgive others.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/13


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