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I realize I've asked this twice before, but out of more than 120 answers, only one answered correctly. I will now rephrase the question to be more specific: What will you 'personally' do when your denominational church compromises the Gospel to keep its non-profit status?

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 ---Steveng on 12/29/13
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Christian, you need a lesson on salvation. everyone's heart that God pricks can turn the other way. I have seen people under conviction that ducked out the door. honestly you can't believe God will make you listen do you? yes that is our free will and that is what God gave all of us. if you are saved, God pricked your heart but you could have turned and walked away.
---shira4368 on 1/11/14


Shira, you say,
" please tell me how man is called by God to be the "elect"."
God make a decision on whom is going to be saved and who is not. When they (the elect) are born they are born lost like all descendants of Adam. But at some point in the time after their birth God makes them alive together with Christ. God is the Potter and we are only the clay, He forms us as He wills. The clay has no say on how he is formed. "You will say to me then, "why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will? But indeed o man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who form it, "why have You made me like this?" (Rom. 9:19,20).
---Mark_V. on 1/12/14


\\Don't forget there were people whom Christ Himself called, but they offered excuses and refused to follow Him." Cluny

That's really ridiculous. How is it that after God draws the sinner, he can resist the power of God still?\\

Don't forget that the Son does only what He sees the Father do. If Jesus called different people who refused, such as the rich young ruler, they obviously rejected God's drawing of them.

That's what it says in the Gospels.

Deal with it.

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/12/14


"Don't forget there were people whom Christ Himself called, but they offered excuses and refused to follow Him." Cluny

That's really ridiculous. How is it that after God draws the sinner, he can resist the power of God still? That's your freewill doctrine for you.

Whereas Christ declared, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:65 - ie, those who refuse to go is because they were never even "drawn by the Father" to begin with.

Don't you believe, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" and yet your freewill says otherwise. How sad for your freewill doctrine.
---christan on 1/11/14


\\Firstly, if God has already drawn the sinner, what's there for him to even choose? \\

To respond affirmatively to the Father's drawing. NOBODY is denying that God takes the initiative. (At least, I don't think so.)

Don't forget there were people whom Christ Himself called, but they offered excuses and refused to follow Him.

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/11/14




"We teach that as JESUS said all would be drawn to HIM. Then GOD after drawing us allows us to choose to be lost." Samuelbb7

You've just demonstrated precisely what I've said about freewillers. Firstly, if God has already drawn the sinner, what's there for him to even choose? Where in Scriptures does it even teach of such a process? You make no sense at all.

As for "all", it doesn't imply everyone of mankind or Christ wouldn't have declared, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37

But freewill theology teaches you can loose your salvation. How's that even possible according to Christ above?
---christan on 1/11/14


\\where did I say this?" you mock it when you speak against the Truth. I\\

And you can't prove where I did either.

Or do you think that asking you if YOU believe you're among God's elect, and why, is "mocking truth"?

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/11/14


Cluny, your wrong, you and others mock the election of God. You asked, "where did I say this?" you mock it when you speak against the Truth. It's the Word of God. Samuel says he doesn't believe God forces us. He doesn't. He has mercy on us. Mercy is not forcing. All descendants of Adam are condemned for breaking the law, they are heading to hell. No amount of words can take you out of that path. No amount of works either. But God who is rich in mercy and because of His great love for which He loved us (who believe now) made us alive together with Christ. He took us out of that path to hell. Christ paid our debt. He died in our place. We are now free from the condemnation of the law, we belong to God now. What is so hard to understand?
---Mark_V. on 1/11/14


Samuel, to continue what I said concerning you, the question is are you thankful God had mercy on you? Your answer should be "yes."
You see you believe you seek God while lost. And you had a choice to accept or reject His offer. If you are heading to hell already condemned and without hope in the world and without Christ, you are saying you do not want God to have mercy on you, you want to remain on the path to hell, because He cannot force you to accept salvation. In fact what you are really saying is that you had mercy on Christ by choosing Him with your free will. Because you have your rights and God cannot interfere with your rights while you are heading to hell condemned.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/14


Christian, ok please tell me how man is called by God to be the "elect". if there is no preacher, or any other witness, how does one get saved. my bible says man needs a preacher. Romans 10:14. How can man hear without a preacher.
---shira4368 on 1/10/14




\"**specially when one mocks and deny election is how God saves a man** Quote exactly where I said this" Cluny

Do you really need to say it exactly the way I have phrased it? There are ways to to mock and you're a master at this, for example:\\

In other words, you cannot prove your slander against me.

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/10/14


one says it's up to the sinful man to go to Christ by his own choice and the other as declared by Christ, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: christan

The Problem is that is not what the Freewill doctrine says. We agree that no one can come to JESUS unless they are drawn. I have pointed out this to you before. Why do you insist on misstating what we teach?

We teach that as JESUS said all would be drawn to HIM. Which is what you deny as part of TULIP. Then GOD after drawing us allows us to choose to be lost. He does not force us to be saved.

The difference between our doctrines are about love, hate and force. We believe in love. You believe in hate and force with a little love.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/10/14


"**specially when one mocks and deny election is how God saves a man** Quote exactly where I said this" Cluny

Do you really need to say it exactly the way I have phrased it? There are ways to to mock and you're a master at this, for example:

1/9/14 - "Do you believe you're one of God's elect, christen? If not, why are you making an issue of it?"

1/7/14 - "And you think you're among the ones God saves, christen? Why do you think that?"

Need I say more?
---christan on 1/10/14


\\"That all churches will compromise the Gospel to keep non-profit status."

Is that an instruction from the Holy Bible?\\

No. It's an assumption that Steveng's original drive-by attack post is making

\\"What is YOUR worldly denominational church (and it is one despite your denials) doing to bail the US Government out of debt?"

...the US government is secular, period.\\

Well, Steveng was complaining that the Church of Greece wasn't bailing out the Greek government--as if she could.

**specially when one mocks and deny election is how God saves a man**

Quote exactly where I said this, christan.

Otherwise, I'm not the liar.

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/10/14


shira, this is the difference between the freewill doctrine and the election doctrine - one says it's up to the sinful man to go to Christ by his own choice and the other as declared by Christ, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

You cannot seriously believe that freewill and election goes hand in hand, do you? It's a contradiction!

The difference between life and death is basically what you believe to be the way to God. If you say freewill is the way, which the Bible contradicts, isn't that then death? How can you be having eternal life if the jesus you believe says you have the freewill? That's what I'm talking about.
---christan on 1/9/14


Christian, how can it be between life and death for an individual if God has already chosen who will be saved and who will not be saved. it is just very foolish. I thank God everyday that His Son came to die for me...oh and for everyone else too.
---shira4368 on 1/9/14


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"That all churches will compromise the Gospel to keep non-profit status."

Is that an instruction from the Holy Bible? Didn't you read, "NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Matthew 6:24

"What is YOUR worldly denominational church (and it is one despite your denials) doing to bail the US Government out of debt?"

Keyword: "worldly" - "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15 - the US government is secular, period.
---christan on 1/9/14


"Do you believe you're one of God's elect, christan? If not, why are you making an issue of it?" Cluny

Whether I believe it or not is between me and God. As for making it an issue, it's rather simple, didn't your mother and father teach you not to lie?

What more when you lie about the Word? Especially when one mocks and deny election is how God saves a man. And His election has nothing to do with what the man is going to do but that God has loved him before He even created him as declared in Romans 9:11,13?

And you think it's not an issue when you preach or witness the Holy Bible? Of course it's a big issue! It's the difference between life and death we're talking about.
---christan on 1/9/14


This question assumes two things, neither of which is proven:

1. That all churches are non-profit corporations.

2. That all churches will compromise the Gospel to keep non-profit status.

Now, I'm going to ask Steveng the same question I asked he never answered:

What is YOUR worldly denominational church (and it is one despite your denials) doing to bail the US Government out of debt?

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/9/14


\\And where in my blogs have I ever declared that I'm one of His elect? Where?
---christan on 1/9/1\\

Do you believe you're one of God's elect, christan?

If not, why are you making an issue of it?

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/9/14


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"And you think you're among the ones God saves, christen?"

Cluny, you seriously have an issue with the doctrine of election. But that's between you and God, not me. The Holy Bible clearly speaks about election, that's all I know. I speak about election is simply because you guys lie against the Word about how a man is saved which is contradicted by the Scriptures.

And where in my blogs have I ever declared that I'm one of His elect? Where?
---christan on 1/9/14


"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

no christian, this verse is a reference of the OT verse of two or three witness testimony about a crime. In which to bring a brother back into fellowship after a sin. context matters

Though Godly wisdom can be found in the community of a small group of believers, it is not a restriction on the number of believers gathering together or reference the fact that not all people will be saved.
---Scott1 on 1/8/14


Shira, you say,
"Christian, where does God say he won't save people? that isn't what my bible says. you must be reading some other book."
You must be reading another bible. I gave you the parable, even wrote it down. What happens to the sons of the wicked one?
The Son of Man (Jesus Christ) will send out His angels, and they will gather out of the kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 13:41,42).
God by the words of Jesus is not going to save any of those. So He is not going to save everyone. And since He is God, He could save them all, if He so chose to save them, but He doesn't.
---Mark_V. on 1/8/14


Christian, where does God say he won't save people? that isn't what my bible says. you must be reading some other book.
---shira4368 on 1/7/14


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\\In short, God is telling us He's not going to save everyone of mankind. And to me, that's sobering.
---christan on 1/7/14\\

And you think you're among the ones God saves, christan?

Why do you think that?

Christ is baptized!
---Cluny on 1/7/14


Peter, I believe there's a Godly wisdom to what Christ said in Matthew 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." I always wondered why He didn't say two or three hundred or even thousands. But a simple "two or three".

I then realise the reason why, because Christ said, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

In short, God is telling us He's not going to save everyone of mankind. And to me, that's sobering.
---christan on 1/7/14


Bro.Steveng,all respect, good point!
I left the church for several reasons,
" jumping hoops" keep that non- profit status,it' evident they just forgot about Jesus,prayer,Bible,etc.

Focus was politics,other things not biblical, activities,draw people " like a social club. I did the right thing, to leave.
---Lidia4796 on 1/7/14


christan on 1/4/14: Your quote from Ephesians is good, yes, and it well describes the church. However, if the church is large enough, it may eventually feel that it is better to find a place, even a separate building, in which to worship God together.

That need not be called a 'church' - it can just be called a 'building
---Peter on 1/6/14


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Peter, not only is it biblical and historical, the period which Christ came in and during the book of Acts was under the Roman empire rule. Contributions received in the book of Acts were not tithing as in the OT but to help oppressed Christians and their fellow men during their time of oppresion.

And to prove that the "church" of Christ is not a physical building, read how wonderful Paul described the "church" in Ephesians 1:22,23 -

"And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all." - the "church" is a spiritual entity made up of the saints.
---christan on 1/4/14


*************

christan: What's a "copher"??? Did you mean "coffer"?

*************

---jerry6593 on 1/4/14


christan:

You said: With regards to tithing, no where in the NT are we told of the following:
- to build big buildings ...and not to build-up the cophers like today's synagogues of satan does in the name of God through tithing$.


Agreed. Although most abuses occur through extreme excesses of something that is otherwise legitimate. Paying a pastor a salary so he doesn't have to take a second job, allowing him to devote his full time to the ministry is reasonable. Paying a pastor so he can have 6 cars, a yacht, and a private jet is not.
---StrongAxe on 1/3/14


christan on 1/3/14: Your point about the building is true.

However, the building is a problem if it deters people from proper worship or offering to God. The church I go to borrows a building from another church for its services, and the building is over 200 years old.

So the problem of constructing the building is not in the issue.

The real question is whether we (the people who attend the service I go to) lose from entering a particular building

I accept it is possible, but I do not think so.

Your statement 'contributions mentioned in Acts was because of the oppression of the Roman empire' may or may not be true. But each time has its 'oppression' - it was not only the roman empire that had its oppression.
---Peter on 1/3/14


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With regards to tithing, no where in the NT are we told of the following:

- to build big buildings to congregate the people for worship ("God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, DWELLETH NOT IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS" Acts 17:24) and collect tithing$.

- worshipping was normally gathered in small groups with a teacher or the disciples leading.

- contributions mentioned in Acts was because of the oppression of the Roman empire during that time, to help the brethren who's going through hardships, and not to build-up the cophers like today's synagogues of satan does in the name of God through tithing$.
---christan on 1/3/14


christan:

You said: There's a great difference between "inheritance" and "being paid", or do you not understand?

Yes. Their inheritance was the right to be paid the tithe. The inheritance was a one-time long-term endowment. The tithes were continuing payments. The two were different, but definitely inter-related.

I agree this has nothing to do with evangelists etc. But the Bible also says a worker should be paid for his work, and an ox should not be muzzled (i.e. it is entitled to partake of the fruits of its own labors). Preaching and pastoring are hard work that takes a lot of time - that can't be devoted to money-making pursuits that pay the bills. Or should preachers beg on the streets?
---StrongAxe on 1/3/14


Rita H thank you,I know even when you stick to scripture some will try to explain it away. I do think some people enjoy confrontation,for myself I hate it,give me peace and love anytime over that. The Bible teaches against contention and that is all I need to guide me to love and not fuss. Lidia I am glad you found that kindness. I believe the more we are treated kindly the more we can treat others kindly because we have seen the example. Then it becomes a beautiful cycle of love flowing freely in the family of Christ. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 1/3/14


\\This proves, Cluny, that you have the worldly knowledge of the Word of God.\\

Better than NO knowledge, like you, Steveng.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/3/14


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If the denomination is Going against the word of God & refuses to change then I'd find another fellowship.
---Candice on 1/3/14


"In other words, the OT priests WERE paid." Cluny

"But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance." Numbers 18:24

There's a great difference between "inheritance" and "being paid", or do you not understand?

Tithing in the Holy Bible was very peculiar to the Levite priests as the the verse above demonstrates. No where else in the Scripture do you see God saying to give tithings to the prophets, apostles, evangelists, pastors or teachers.
---christan on 1/3/14


Steven, you said,
"let's say we have five groups of ten members each. I belong to one node. but maybe I may not know everyone in the other nodes. That's how christianity grows and spreads."
First, you did not mention if the members who gather with you are saved or not. If they are, and are already believers how does Christianity spread?
Second, What makes you think they are all saved? Who teaches saved, the unsaved?
Third, You accuse the churches of being created by satan, yet you teach at many of them. You use a computer and do not know the context of the message God wants to convey to the readers. It's your own interpretation what truth is.
And you have been wrong so many times already.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/14


Steveng: 'compromises the Gospel'

What compromising have you noticed, and in which churches?

I am not saying it does not occur, I just want to know what you are talking about.

And also why you assume non-denominational churches are automatically 'immune'.

Can you give some indications for those two questions?
---Peter on 1/3/14


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Cluny wrote: "The word "node" is nowhere in the Bible."

I was just using that word as an analogy so people like you would understand. Apparently, you didn't. This proves, Cluny, that you have the worldly knowledge of the Word of God.
---Steveng on 1/2/14


Family,happy see you Sis.RitaH., you' in my prayers.
Darlene1- You remind me had deep encounter with Christ in N.Y.

Sis.Darlene, after so,many years out of church' they showed me with so,Christian agape love. Never made me feel I wasn't wanted! NO cliques no bling bling, " a happy family". They put a big long shawl o'er me.

I had no decent church dress. Later bought me few clothes!

missionaries from sweden, Ireland, Israel there to disciple young women.
The mssion was a beacon in a very bad part of New York.





. Special time spiritually in my life!
---Lidia4796 on 1/2/14


Darlene you are absolutely right but the problem is that when anyone here tries to state the word of God in hopes of it reaching the heart of an individual (and showing them how to be saved) another will post something to shoot down in flames the one who was trying to help.
I seriously think that several individuals here come purely to cause trouble. Why? I don't know.
Maybe they are agents of Satan disguised as something else.
---Rita_H on 1/2/14


\\Were the priests, prophets, apostles paid workers of God? The tithes the levite priests received in the OT were merely God's way of providing for them while the rest of Israel were toiling in the fields.\\

In other words, the OT priests WERE paid.

And Steveng, what you are saying is that God didn't found your church. The word "node" is nowhere in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/2/14


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Monk Brendan, Paul in 1 Cor 9 was not justifying the collection of tithings like those of the high priests in the OT. If you continue reading to verse 12, this is what Paul said,

"If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power, but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ."

Paul NEVER took tithings nor TAUGHT tithings for he was a tent maker when he wasn't preaching (Acts 18:3). Paul was never dependant on "collection of money" for his livelihood that's why he said, "lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ".
---christan on 1/2/14


I beg your pardons but all the discussing on here doesn't amount to a hill of beans. None of it is important in receiving salvation and life everlasting, none of it will lead a person to the Lord or tell them they should only listen to the Word of God and live by that. Our direction from God isn't to argue about denominations,tithes, or anything like that. We are to Go and Tell the Gospel of Jesus Christ and anything else is vain. If Christians would put as much energy and time into winning souls as they do trying to prove "mine is better than yours" God would be a lot more pleased with all of us. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 1/2/14


Christan said: To collect an income from preaching the Word of God is unbiblical, period.

Christan, please read 1Cor 9. Here, Paul is asking that as the other apostles live from tithes and offerings, why can't he?

5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
---Monk_Brendan on 1/2/14


"...which means that the pastor doesn't get paid" Monk Brendan

Were the priests, prophets, apostles paid workers of God? The tithes the levite priests received in the OT were merely God's way of providing for them while the rest of Israel were toiling in the fields. The high priests were specifically called by God to serve Him in the sacrifices back in the OT.

What sacrifices is your pastors performing today that requires them to receive tithing like the levitical priests back in the OT? The final High Priest came and returned to the Father (read Hebrews 9).

To collect an income from preaching the Word of God is unbiblical, period.
---christan on 1/2/14


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Christan said: "What's your "church" amassing and hoarding wealth all about anyways? Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep and not "fleece" His sheep.

Don't know about your church, but in mine, we hardly make weekly expenses, and sometimes we don't, which means that the pastor doesn't get paid.

We have one collection a week, with no special collections or love offerings. If that one collection doesn't do it, then someone doesn't get paid.
---Monk_Brendan on 1/1/14


As I have mentioned many times in the past God's church, in which I belong, does not have any assets - no buildings, no art treasures, no salaries to pay, no property, not even as a non-profit corporation.

We meet wherever two or more gathers and we meet daily. Generally, we have a small group of around 50 in my corner of the world but our meetings are small and very informal maybe seven at the most not including children. We know each other intimately and we hold each other accountable to keep on the path toward the Kingdom of God.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say we have five groups of ten members each. I belong to one node. but maybe I may not know everyone in the other nodes. That's how christianity grows and spreads.
---Steveng on 1/1/14


Steveng...who decides who is poor and needy?
---KarenD on 1/1/14


\\\\Your Greek Orthodox church has twice the asset value of Greece's debt, but would not bail Greece out.\\

BTW, Steveng, like most Orthodox on this planet, I'm not Greek Orthodox.

Greek Orthodox means either of the Church of Greece (which exists only in that country) or of Greek descent within the Ecumenical Patriarchate. And not all people THERE are ethnic Greeks, such as Finns, Estonians, Latvians, or some Ukrainians.

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about half the time. You just post attack statements.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/31/13


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\\What's your "church" amassing and hoarding wealth all about anyways? Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep and not "fleece" His sheep.
---christan on 12/31/13\\

I don't know what you're talking about, and I'll be you don't either.

But there are churches in Greece, and the Middle East generally, that are centuries older than the USA.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/31/13


"I don't know where you got this info, but is it the duty of any church to bail out the secular state?" Cluny

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

What's your "church" amassing and hoarding wealth all about anyways? Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep and not "fleece" His sheep.
---christan on 12/31/13


I personally will not need to do anything, because my Church has been around when it has been illegal to even BE a Christian.

The denominational Church that I belong to has had to fight and struggle just to survive, and in most of the countries in the Middle East never receives any sort of tax break. Rather, they have to pay a tax to remain open in those areas.

Open up your eyes and think globally!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/31/13


Steveng said: My chuch is not of this world. The true church of God does not own worldly assets and does not need revenue to maintain these assets. All, 100%, of our money goes to the poor and needy.

I have a question. Do you have a pastor, or a building in which to meet? Does your pastor draw a salary? Does he pay taxes on what he makes?

If the congregation owns the building, do they pay real estate taxes? If not, then does the congregation pay rent?

How big is the congregation in this not-of-the-world church of yours?
---Monk_Brendan on 12/31/13


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I have an idea, Steveng.

Why doesn't YOUR worldly denominational church bail out the US government from its debt?

For all your denials, your church IS worldly and denominational, because it was founded by man, and not by Christ!

Christ is born! Glorify HIm!
---Cluny on 12/31/13


Mark_V., please give your definition of "church" then compare it to what scripture says.
---Steveng on 12/31/13


\\Your Greek Orthodox church has twice the asset value of Greece's debt, but would not bail Greece out.\\

I don't know where you got this info, but is it the duty of any church to bail out the secular state?

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/31/13


Jesus Christ came to this world but He said He isn't of this world. When we are saved from our sinful life then we too are no longer of this world. We are in this world but no longer of this world. I would think the same goes for the churches who are commented to God. It doesn't matter what the denomination of a group it matters about the groups commitment to God and to live by God's Word. It matters if that group has indeed put away the fleshly ways of the sinful world and are living and walking in the Spiritual ways of God. Jesus said be holy as I am holy,if we couldn't do it He wouldn't have told us to.
---Darlene_1 on 12/31/13


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I don't see anywhere steveng's church is worldly. sounds like cluny's is tho. no cluny, I did challenge you to tell me why Baptist, Methodist are worldly. you started this debate and it looks like steveng finished it for me. thanks steveng. frankly I don't know much about clunys church but I do know about mine and cluny don't have a clue what Baptist believe.
---shira4368 on 12/31/13


Steven, you again try to put other churches down but not yours. you say:
"My chuch is not of this world. The true church of God does not own worldly assets and does not need revenue to maintain these assets. All, 100%, of our money goes to the poor and needy"
Can you explain to us, who belong to this world, how your church, not of this world, is giving money to the poor and needy from this world? Unless there is poor and needy in another world. And where does a church not of this world get the money? And how does it dispense the money from another world to this world?
Is your church not of this world, have members from another world? Are the sinners also saved by grace? Or are they spirits who have money?
---Mark_V. on 12/31/13


I would say our church has preaching of the real gospel, and we do things to help needy people, not only materially.

But we are not perfect. So, ones of us can be the wrong way . . . not only in beliefs, but mainly wrong in how we relate. When people are trying to lord themselves over me and control me or seduce me, I pray. And I know I need to be corrected, myself. I'm not perfect. So, only our Father can know how I really need correction > Hebrews 12:8-11 to me means we need to seek God's correction.

Trying to get wrong people to give me a real answer is a waste of my time!
---willie_c: on 12/31/13


Cluny wrote: "shira, tell me everything you ACTUALLY KNOW about my church--Orthodoxy."

She may not, but I will.

Your Greek Orthodox church has twice the asset value of Greece's debt, but would not bail Greece out. Your worldly denominational church has the following: real estate holdings (both commercial and income producing), investment (both stocks, in commercial corporations and banks, and bonds), tresured artworks, organized as a non-profit corporation, and revenue to maintain all these assets.

My chuch is not of this world. The true church of God does not own worldly assets and does not need revenue to maintain these assets. All, 100%, of our money goes to the poor and needy.
---Steveng on 12/30/13


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steveng....You obviously have some literacy issues since you thought the moderator was posting on my last answer. I posted a question to the moderator. And, you still refuse to answer what church you attend. I have a suggestion to others on these blogs. When steveng posts a question we can all just ignore him since he refuses to have dialogue with us. I'm starting right now!!!!
---KarenD on 12/30/13


"only one answered correctly" - in whose eyes? Yours or God's?

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
Matthew 6:19-21
---christan on 12/30/13


\\no cluny, I won't answer anything concerning your church.\\

In other words, you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Orthodoxy.

Obviously, you find things wrong with the Methodists and Presbyterians, because you are not either yourself.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/30/13


no cluny, I won't answer anything concerning your church. YOU answer it by telling me what is wrong with Baptist, Methodist, and other denominations. you are the one who started this debate. you always answer a question with another question. YOU are the one who said all denominations are bad.
---shira4368 on 12/30/13


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\\This would be the first time since I came to this website that I have replied to my own blog question. \\

I've noticed that you tend to be a drive-by poster, Steveng.

Is this what your worldly denominational church teaches you to do?

Christ is born!! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/29/13


\\cluny, you make me laugh. YOUR church is unworldly???\\

shira, tell me everything you ACTUALLY KNOW about my church--Orthodoxy.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/29/13


MODERATOR 12/29/13 "....Steveng refuses to answer our questions and he doesn't want anyone to answer except the way he thinks we should answer.

This would be the first time since I came to this website that I have replied to my own blog question.

Moderator, you wrongly assume much just like most other posters. Do you question Jesus when he asked questions? There is a simple reason why I don't respond to my own blog - to find what others think. That's it. No other reason or agenda. If I posted replies to my own question, people would accuse me of steering the question. and others to my way of thinking. I would get defiled for that.

I do answer questions when others post blogs.

Do you have a response to this?
---Steveng on 12/29/13


cluny, you make me laugh. YOUR church is unworldly??? that is the joke of the year. I can tell you my pastor won't compromise what he preaches. as a church, we have talked about that subject. maybe you should visit every church in the U.S. to see if they pass your inspection.
---shira4368 on 12/29/13


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\\What will you 'personally' do when your denominational church compromises the Gospel to keep its non-profit status?\\

Steveng, your church is a wordly denominational one that has already compromised the Gospel.

Only Orthodoxy is PREdenominational and unworldly.

BTW, most churches do NOT have non-profit status granted by the US government. Did you know that?

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/29/13


Steveng....Funny how you never answered any of our questions. Name one denomination that you think has compromised the Gospel to keep its non-profit status and with which denomination are you affiliated?

MODERATOR....Why do you keep posting this same question when Steveng refuses to answer our questions and he doesn't want anyone to answer except the way he thinks we should answer.
---KarenD on 12/29/13


What do you mean that only one person answered correctly? Only one person actually addressed the question, or only one person gave the answer you were looking for?

BTW, most churches have already compromised the gospel, and not for non-profit status. Instead, it's self-righteousness and outward behavioral expectations

If your gospel is "give your life to Christ" then it's been compromised

"ask Jesus to come into your heart" is a huge compromise.


God's not looking for us to give him anything, but to receive what He's trying to give.

God's grace is accessed by faith, not by begging or trying to straighten up, or any other works

What have you done?
---James_L on 12/29/13


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