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Boycotting Of Israeli Products

Many christian organizations are boycotting Israeli products and services and are blaming Zionists. Even among the comments of today's news online there is a plethora of anti-Zionism remarks. Is anti-Zionism the new anti-Semitism?

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Kathr. We/I thank you for your posts. You presented much truth and took much abuse for it.

All though CN is not a Church the basic Church displine rules were used in dealing with this problem.

We need to get back to the time when the most important thing was people learning about the Lord. It was not, "Can I "win" the debate.

I remember the joking, fun, teasing and the love for each other.

I've personally made many friends here. We have visited each other, been to one another's churches, taken vacations at each others homes. My friend met and married his wife because of C/N.

We're going back to the good 'ol days because of people like you. Thanks
---Elder on 2/12/14


Thank you for your post here Elder. I know this was a difficult decision, but not one made in haste.

May we all take a step back and pray and reflect on how we can all make CN a place that exalts our Lord Jesus Christ and His sacrifice of love for all who have the privilege of knowing Him, and sharing His love , grace, and plan of salvation to others.

One only needs to look around to see time is running out.

God has demonstrated His love for ALL through Jesus Death and resurrection, that whosoever will may boldly come to the throne of GRACE to find mercy and forgiveness of sin.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/14


Kathr, I am the oldest member on ChristiaNet now. I have been with this ministry almost from the beginning. The Lord really led me here.

I was here when JohnT, Lisa, others and Eloy, who used many names, were here. There were others also. They, like MarkV and others still here, posted confusion and falsehoods.

ChristiaNet wants folks, like yourself, who knows the truth to share it with those who don't. That sometimes takes debate.

Some when confronted with the Truth reject it and resort to demonic rhetoric.

After much longsuffering from CN and many chances they are removed because they refuse to repent and abide by truth.

You will not see MarkV any longer.
---Elder on 2/12/14


thankyou ,Sis.Kath & Shira4368,
Bro.Adetunji with all respect, some good points brought up here.
Bro.MarkV. with all respect
I am get "the lash "now...you all ran away the aethiest! He need to stay
( actually I think he was close to anytime, least expect - Call on God! ) love of Jesus!
---Lidia4796 on 2/11/14


What they also might find is more and more new people participating because it isn't so hostile. How many people do you think read these each day and would like to input, but for fear of being called ignorant or any other name just don't.

It would be so great to have new comers come on here without any fear of attack.

The moment someone new comes on, it's horrible the way some answer back. Why not say, WELCOME to CN, first, and then get to know someone.

I have been posting for over 10 years, but find it more and more difficult to put so much time and effort and scripture backing, only to have all that disappear in a moment.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/14




Years ago things got out of hand when JohnT and Lisa and company also took over each and every blog and because of that many people left. So they were all thrown off, and many regulars came back on. Markv and christen have started it all up again, and it has been going on for some time now. I see many wonderful regulars leaving or just not as involved as they once were. The arguing and name calling and being told your not saved, or a child of satan or ignorant. They cut off your ears first and then expect you to hear what they want you to hear. LOL

these guys need to be put off for a good month and then let CN see the interaction of those left. What they may find is RESPECT for others even if there is disagreement.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/14


kathr, it isn't anything to do with anything except every single blog is the same thing. new Christians need to hear the truth. old Christians need the truth too. several here have tried for a long time to tell the truth with scripture but those who abuse this site won't even recognize they are bible truth.
---shira4368 on 2/11/14


Markv and christian have been asked, no begged, to search the Scripture and come to an understanding of what the nature of God is, what His real Salvation is, what His love is and a host of other things. Yet they continue to spread discord and confusion.

Even Calvin began to leave his own theological thoughts about his concept before he died.

I will ask again, for the moderators, Mark_V, christian please get off of your false doctrine beliefs and post or remove yourself and go somewhere else.

Once you are banned from ChristiaNet it will be about impossible to return.
---Elder on 2/10/14


Mark_V://So as Christians if we do not submit to the free will doctrine, we are going to be removed.//

Why should you be allowed to continue to condemn, judge God/Jesus on a website dedicated to HIM? When you are referred to the truth in the Bible that contradicts your belief, you give excuse not to read it. You are not ignorant of the truth, you refuse the truth. You are not here to edify the body of Christ but to attempt to tear it down. Your evil agenda against God/Jesus will never succeed in Jesus' name, Amen.
---Adetunji on 2/11/14


markv, it isn't your calvanist ways that will get you gone but the fact that you invade every single blog with your whale stuff. you hijack every blog. you insult others that are true believers and you have insulted some here including me. that is the problem here. all you talk about is the same thing over and over. why don't you learn something else to say over and over. you are getting boring...oh you have been boring for a long time.
---shira4368 on 2/10/14




No MarkV, if you are removed it is because of the lies, errors and discord you spread.

If you or anyone is removed it will be because of your own actions. You are invited to this party.

You have nothing invested and it cost you nothing to be here. When you damage ChristiaNet what do you expect?

When members leave and name you and christian as the cause is ChristiaNet staff just supposed to clap their hands and dance arround?

If this had been a resturant you would have been banned and probably arrested long ago.

Why don't you just thank God because it is predetermined that you be banned?
Why are you not on a Calvinist site? What is your purpose here anyway?
---Elder on 2/10/14


I don't think deleting the blogs is going to solve the problem, since on those blogs there is truth to refute the lies.

I think those who post lies should be banned, or just don't post the post itself.

It's not fair to punish all for one or two who post lies. Many of those threads had some very good posts from others.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/14


Elder, you now say,
"The purpose is that they might learn some truth and turn away from their error.
To believe like these two do questions their salvation."

So as Christians if we do not submit to the free will doctrine, we are going to be removed. Sort of like what the RCC did to the reformers. And add, to believe like we do questions our salvation. How can you possibly know who is saved or not? You are not God. Are atheist, Jehovah witnesses, or Mormons being removed because they do not believe as you do? What is true is that those who teach free will, are the ones who throw stones and complain and want us removed. The Truth of the gospel will always cause others to threaten us. Read what Paul went through.
---Mark_V. on 2/10/14


//If only you knew the Jewish Israeli mindset. If only you knew how they are aware of their own history and the promises of God to them of their Messiah when you talk to them, even the secularists.
If only you knew how surprised they are when a goy talks to them. It might be good if you visited the country perhaps!//

Very true. That's one of the reasons I like living here. They know their history and are ready to talk about it. However, "Christanity" is generally seen in a bad light because Christians persecuted them since the first century.
---Rod4Him on 2/9/14


Elder: //MarkV and christian have caused 13 blogs to be deleted because false doctrine and spreading discord//
"In fact, I have being pondering whether this website belongs to or supports their group"
Adetunji

No Adetunji, that is not the case. ChristiaNet gives a lot of time to folks like these.

The purpose is that they might learn some truth and turn away from their error.
To believe like these two do questions their salvation.

ChristiaNet is long suffering in cases like this. Yet, when people say they are going to leave because of their false doctrine ChristiaNet must make a move for the better good of all and the ministry of Christ.
---Elder on 2/9/14


Elder: //MarkV and christian have caused 13 blogs to be deleted because false doctrine and spreading discord//
In fact, I have being pondering whether this website belongs to or supports their group, because of the way most of their comments were listed and given prominence.
---Adetunji on 2/9/14


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MarkV,

If only you knew the Jewish Israeli mindset. If only you knew how they are aware of their own history and the promises of God to them of their Messiah when you talk to them, even the secularists.
If only you knew how surprised they are when a goy talks to them. It might be good if you visited the country perhaps!

And I notice you avoided my point of logic about the tautology in Paul's words if your calvinism is true. Not surprised - a typical Calvinist intellectual dishonesty i.e. never engage with an argument which defeats you.
---Marc on 2/9/14


lidia, fox news had as close to the truth as one can know. they report things when other networks don't. I am sorry you are having problems with your eyes. is it because of chemo? chemo messed my sister up worse than the cancer did. lidia, if you will go to my mail box on christianet and tell me your address, I want to send you something. please.... I make beautiful jewelry and if you have an email, I will send photos so you can see what I make. you are special to me.
---shira4368 on 2/9/14


"MarkV, allows his Calvinism to interpret Scripture instead of Scripture informing his soteriology."
Marc

Marc you are so correct!

MarkV and christian have caused 13 blogs to be deleated because false doctrine and spreading discord.

The Moderator said they will be deleated if they continue to post false doctrine.

Here are the blogs,
Is God Just
Why Going To Hell
How To Witness To Muslims
Why Satan's Rebellion
Did God Make Robots
Does God Have a Plan
Anointing Of Sarcasm
Predestination Or Free Will
Extra Biblical Books
Deceived Christians Get Saved
Can We Sin Daily
OK To Become A Christian
Spirit-Filled London Churches
---Elder on 2/9/14


Marc, for your information, and maybe so that you can learn something new, let me explain to you this point.
Only those with faith in Christ are saved, They are saved by God's grace through faith. Millions upon millions of Israelites have died already in their sins. And after death there is no second chances. So not all Israel will be saved. To this day, Israel is still lost as a nation. All will never be saved unless each individual is saved by God grace through faith in Jesus Christ. There is only one way. When you speak about Israel, you better explain which Israel your are talking about, the past one, todays, or the futures.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/14


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MarkV, I don't suggest all israel was/is saved. There has/will be a remnant. I know a passage in Romans says, "And so all Israel will be saved, " however, the all is a thesis subject, attempting to define all.

The Prophets in the Tanahk all talk about there always being a remnant.
---Rod4Him on 2/8/14


MarkV allows his Calvinism to interpret Scripture instead of Scripture informing his soteriology. Romans 11:26 says "and so ALL Israel will be saved". If 'all' only meant those that were predestined to be saved this verse would be a tautology i.e. "and so only those who were predestined to be saved will be saved." Do you understand my point, Mark, or are you blinding your understanding to getting understanding?

Paul then quotes Isaiah 59:21 which, in Isaiah, reads, "my covenant [will be in Jacob] with them [and all their descendants]...for evermore".
---Marc on 2/8/14


My apologies,since I can not see a regular tv screen - can you tell me where I can see online re: the boycott and who are these christian organizations going against the jewish people, Isreal products? Is this on youtube ? Fox news? Online somewhere..?
I am not aware but would like to know. Be kind enough to answer. Thanks! Lidia4796
---Lidia4796 on 2/8/14


Rod4him, great passages you gave, but the people Paul is talking about from Israel are the remnant according to election of grace in (v. Rom. 11:5). And we know that not all will be saved from Israel is because Paul after the passages you gave says,
"For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am an apostle, "if" by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh (Jews) and save some of them" (Rom. 11:13,14). "If" he could provoke them to jealousy and save some of them, not all.
only the remnant according to the election of Grace are called by God. And if by Grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise
Grace is no longer Grace." (Rom. 11:5,6).
---Mark_V. on 2/8/14


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[11:1]I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
[2]God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

[11]So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their stumbling* salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel*jealous.
[12]Now if their stumbling* means riches for the world, and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
---Rod4Him on 2/6/14


Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
Rom 11:20 ...Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Romans 11:24-25 ...how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
-It seems God has a special design for Israel above that of the other nations(Gentiles).
---micha9344 on 2/6/14


Steven, you now say,
"Israel is a whole lot more important than any other country than you think. Many scriptures are written about how important Israel is to the world and prophesy tells how important to end time events."
How are they more important to us now? They were important all through history. Salvation came first through Israel, now it came to us Gentiles. The world is made up of Gentiles. Many are still lost. And How would you know what is Truth, since you insist not readying the Bible passages and verses. You say they are not good enough, that you can be taught by the Holy Spirit without the Word of God and its passages and verses, at least you suggested that on another blog.
---Mark_V. on 2/6/14


Mark_V.: "Israel is just as important as any other country."

Israel is a whole lot more important than any other country than you think. Many scriptures are written about how important Israel is to the world and prophesy tells how important to end time events.
---Steveng on 2/5/14


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In God's plan, Israel was the nation God chose to bring the Lord Jesus through. Not any other nation but Israel. Salvation to the Gentiles came through them first. Now both have been made one. Israel is just as important as any other country. Many have accused the Jews for the death of Christ, beginning in the RCC. But it was ordained by God that Jesus should die. Sure the Jews were allow to cause him pain and suffering, but the ultimate cause was Jesus Himself. No one took His life away, He gave lay it down.
"Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." (John 10:17,18).
---Mark_V. on 2/5/14


Hey Cluny,

So after 2000 years of Israel not existing, after many failed attempts to establish it in those years, after billions of Jewish prayers for it to be realised, suddenly Israel appears, and you reckon God had NOTHING to do with it? Are you willing to publicly affirm that the establishment of modern Israel did not have anything to do with God? And if so, who's your heavenly source for such a claim?

Second, even if Israel is a secular state (it's not really but for the sake of my argument I'll grant you that) it doesn't mean that God had nothing to do with its reestablishment. After all, God used pagans all the time in the Old Testament to bring about his goals.
---Marc on 2/4/14


Steven, no one is save without Christ whether they were in the Old Testament or the New. Old Testament believers belief in the coming Christ, New Testament believers belief in the Christ who already came. The Redeemer was mentioned all the way back to (Gen. 3:15). All human beings are saved by Grace through faith, and that faith is in Christ Jesus. Though Old Testament believers did not see the birth of Jesus, they knew and believed that one day He would come. They had faith, and only those born of God have faith.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/14


Steven 2: you also gave (Ezekiel 14:14) the righteousness they had was the righteousness of Christ. Self-righteousness is of no value. You also gave (1 Cor. 10:1-5) only very few people in the desert were saved, not to eternal life, but saved by God not allowing them to die in the desert, and those people were all I believe under 20 years old. They did not receive spiritual salvation, but salvation from death wandering around in the desert. They were allowed to go in to the new land.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/14


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Mark V wrote: "Steven, a Bible search will tell you all those who died without Christ are lost. Only those in Christ will be saved."

So, all the people in the OT is doomed? How do you explain (knowing what you answer is going to be) that Noah, Daniel, and Job but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Ezekiel 14:14, 20
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
---Steveng on 2/3/14


Steven, a Bible search will tell you all those who died without Christ are lost. Only those in Christ will be saved.
Paul wrote, "Now to Abraham and his "SEED" were the promises made" He does not say, "And to seeds" as of many, but as of One. "And to your SEED, who is Christ" (Gal. 3:16). Paul also said, "And if you are Christ, then you are Abraham seed" (Gal. 3:29). Thus in the New T. the name Israel not only applies to the One Victorious Man, the true SEED, Jesus Christ, but also to those who belong to Christ. Believers in Jesus are infused into the SEED. In other words, true Christians are part of God's Spiritual Israel the Israel of God (1 Peter 2:9,10).
---Mark_V. on 2/3/14


The salvation of Israel is to come out of Zion! When the Lord brings back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.

Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God has shined.

They that trust in the Lord shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion.

For the Lord hath chosen Zion, he hath desired it for his habitation.

Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

Do an online KJV bible search for the word "zion."
---Steveng on 2/2/14


//I said that ZIONISTS stole the land from the Christians who had been living there since the time of the Apostles.//

Those Christians from the time of the Apostles were primarily Jews. The "Christians," after Hadrian kicked the Jews out of Jerusalem, came down from Asia Minor and occuppied the Land, believing it to be "The Holyland."

Constantine's mother helped establish the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and pilgrims started invading the land, taking it over.

Zionists in the Land are primarily Jews.
---Rod4Him on 2/2/14


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//...that Luther was a protestant, but he was a reformer."

Technically, you are right, however, he is credited with starting the reformation. The RCC didn't need reformed...it needed metamorphosized.

For the large part Protestants became little RCCs on every corner with their local popes.

Rude? It's not intended to be.
---Rod4Him on 2/2/14


\Don't forget Cluny began with a typical anti-Semitic remark i.e. the Jews stole the land.\\

No.

I said that ZIONISTS stole the land from the Christians who had been living there since the time of the Apostles.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/2/14


Rod4him, you mentioned that Luther was a protestant, but he was a reformer. He remained a Roman Catholic but was one of many who were trying to reform the RCC. He thought like Catholics in many matters concerning the Jews, but on the most important issues concerning the teachings of salvation by grace along in Christ along he was one of the greatest. Without man like him all would still be slaves of the RCC.

Marc, I think you are a little hard on Cluny, but you got the same point I got when I was answering him. What the RCC taught against the Jews was very powerful for centuries because they were the largest denomination in the world, so the same sediment is felt the world over even today against the Jews. It started at the RCC.
---Mark_V. on 2/2/14


Everyone,

Don't forget Cluny began with a typical anti-Semitic remark i.e. the Jews stole the land. Now, because he's shown to be a bigot, he won't apologise but muddies the water with evasion. E.g. "Oh, you won't find any Orthodox playing the race card." Hey, wait a minute: didn't ol' Cluny call Jews thieves? He did! Well, there's at least one Orthodox acting out his antisemitism and his name is Cluny.

Anti-Semites always pick an area that Jews are successful in and play to their salivating audience. Cluny's taken the side of the Muslims and has tried to remove any Jewish history attached to Israel by simply declaring, "Them Jews, they stole the land."
---Marc on 2/1/14


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//He said similar things about the Christological heretics.//

The hateful speach makes him hateful.
He wrote eight homilies against the Jews. He and others down through the ages, mostly from Catholic heritage, were anti-Semitic. Much of the atrocities done to the Jews were because of his type of writings, including Martin Luther, a Protestant.

The Byzentines occupied Judea, which was not their ancestral land. Did that make them occupiers?
---Rod4Him on 2/1/14


\\Rather, the Jews mortally hurt their victims soul, inflicting ten thousand wounds, and leave it lying in a pit of ungodliness"
---Rod4Him on 1/30/14\\

He said similar things about the Christological heretics.

Does this make him anti-Christian?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/31/14


John Chrysostom, "The Jews are more savage than any highwaymen and do greater harm to those who have fallen among them. They do not simply strip off their victims clothes nor inflict wounds on his body as did those robbers on the road to Jericho. Rather, the Jews mortally hurt their victims soul, inflicting ten thousand wounds, and leave it lying in a pit of ungodliness"
---Rod4Him on 1/30/14


\\Many of the "church fathers" were extremely anti-Semitic, believing they replaced the Jews.\\

Give specific quotes from Orthodox writers.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/30/14


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//The 19th century description does not correspond with what was happening in centuries before.//

Exactly, that's the point.

There were about 400 monasteries in the area surrounding Jerusalem during the Byzantine times. I have been to what is left of Sabbas' monastery, a little small room is still there where a monk would have laid on a limestone slab.

Many of the "church fathers" were extremely anti-Semitic, believing they replaced the Jews.
---Rod4Him on 1/29/14


The 19th century description does not correspond with what was happening in centuries before.

Ever hear of St. Cyril of Jerusalem or St. Sabbas? There are other saints from this area I could mention that would give evidence of a population with a lively spiritual and intellectual life in an area you think was uninhabited from Roman times.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/29/14


Marc, I have been in Jerusalem for almost four years, and you are right.

One can read what Mark Twain said about Palenstine when he was there in 1867. It was a wasteland then.
Yes, some Christian writers were from there, but that was mainly in the first few centuries ad.
Jews have always been there , but not in Jerusalem for awhile after the Barchova revolt.
The political situation is very complex.
The crusaders murdered, Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The city of Jerusalem was a waste for many years there after.
To boycott Israel would hurt Israel and the Arabs, who call themselves Palestinians.
BTW, before 1948 the Jerusalem Post was called the Palestinian Post.
---Rod4him on 1/29/14


"An 1857 communique from the British consul in Jerusalem reported that "the country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population."...The Plain of Sharon, which the Jews of the First Aliyah later cultivated, was described by Reverend Samuel Manning in 1874 as "a land without inhabitants" that "might support an immense population."" (Dershowitz, A., The Case for Israel)

Ahh, Cluny the ahistorian: Speak. We're all ears.
---Marc on 1/29/14


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Come closer MarkV: I think the Catholic Church may have a competitor. Here's what the German Luther had to say: "[Jews] are a scourge, a pestilence...Know, O adored Christ that aside from the Devil, you have no enemy more venomous, more desperate, more bitter than a true Jew...their synagogues should be set on fire...and this ought to be done for the honour of God and of Christianity." (Cohn-Sherbok, The Crucified Jew: Twenty Centuries of Christian Anti-semitism)
---Marc on 1/29/14


In the Third and Fourth Councils of the Latern (1179 and 1215), the Church codified all previous enactments against the Jews. They had to wear a badge of shame. In England it was saffron, in the shape of the tablets of Moses. In France and Germany it was yellow and round. In Italy, the badge was a red hat, until a short-sighted Roman prelate mistook a Jew for a cardinal and the color was change to yellow. No system of apartheid was more rigorously enforced. Jews were hounded from one place to another. During the Crusades, they were slaughtered in the thousands, out of devotion to Christ.
The Roman Catholic Church is more responsible for this attitude against the Jews then any other organization.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/14


\\it was basically wasteland under occupation of different empires. Little by little, Jews started settling the land\\

That's a myth: "A land without people for a people without land."

There were ALWAYS people living there, many of whom were and are Christians.

Some of the greatest Christian writers of ancient times came from this part of the world you claim was uninhabited.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/28/14


Cluny,

I believe I've read his book, many years ago, when I lived in Egypt.

Your recommending his book proves only one thing: your abject ignorance. A sample size of one, as any intelligent person understands, is zero proof.

I see you didn't respond to my citing my life in the Middle East or my enormous reading and writing (i.e. thousands of books and articles and papers). Oh, my mistake, you did: one book. Yep, you'd really get your head around the problem from the "word" of one man.

BTW, did you know that Jews were driven from Arab lands after 1948 - try to find a Jew in Egypt, Libya etc now - and all their property stolen. The estimate is in the region of 100 billion dollars in today's money.
---Marc on 1/28/14


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Gen 47:11 And Joseph placed his father and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.
Lev 20:24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it...
Num 21:35 So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land.
Num 33:53 And ye shall dispossess [the inhabitants] of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.
--They have been doing this for eons. God gave them the land, all others are visitors.
---micha9344 on 1/28/14


Palestine refers to the strip between the Eastern Mediterranean Sea coast and the Jordan Valley. In Bible history this was inhabited by the Philistines,(Palestine)
I prefer Israel, since the Jews once again, according to prophecy (Deut. 30:1 & 2 and Ezekiel 37:12-14) have made it their homeland.

To call Arabs now living in Israel "Palestinians" is a misnomer. Palestine, or Israel as it now is, was the homeland of the Jewish people from Joshua, until, by God's design, they were scattered to every nation by Roman destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD From then until early 1900's it was basically wasteland under occupation of different empires. Little by little, Jews started settling the land
---michael_e on 1/28/14


\\You know, how you accused the Jews of "stealing land". \\

Read BLOOD BROTHERS by Elias Chacour, a Palestinian Christian whose Christian family had lived on the same fig orchard for centuries in Biram before the Zionists came in, expelled them, stole his family's property, and then blew up their homes before their eyes on Christmas Day.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/28/14


It took me less then two minutes to find website advocating boycotting Israel products that are sold here in the United States.

People have hated and tried to destroy Jew down through the ages. Their country is under constant attack. These are people as Paul:
Rom 3:1-2
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

On what basis should we hate Jews for trying to survive in a world that has tried and is trying to destroy them?
---Samuelbb7 on 1/28/14


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Cluny,

Still waiting to hear from you. You know, how you accused the Jews of "stealing land".

Regardless, sounds awfully like something you'd hear at a Nurenberg rally maybe 80 years ago, oh, from a rather odd fellow, given over to endless ravings of paranoid delusion about Jews stealing Germany's industries and other such valuable items.

Different times, same gutter anti-Semitic slander. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
---Marc on 1/28/14


Cluny, you now asked,
"So, MarkV, you believe that a Jew who lives in the modern state of Israel is automatically saved, but not one who lives outside it?
Please clarify.'
Of course not, I don't know from where you came out with such a question. What I know is that through history, the church persecuted the Jews. They even gave them tags to wear, and kept them in camps. Is that the reason you are saying what you say? You must not like them either. They are just like you and I, but as a nation they are still lost.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/14


Most people still just don't get it:

Rom2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

On another note, the promise land is not a picture or type and shadow of Heaven. The promise land is a type and shadow of the church. Once we are in heaven there will be no more war, but while on earth, even in the church, we still face the enemy. Christians constantly war against Satan and his wiles (schemes).
---trey on 1/27/14


So, MarkV, you believe that a Jew who lives in the modern state of Israel is automatically saved, but not one who lives outside it?

Please clarify.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/27/14


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Cluny, you say,
"So you believe the Holy Spirit is with people who reject the Son?"
Of course He is. The Spirit of God has been with those people since Israel was given his name. God has judged them, saved them from their enemies, and let them suffer, again and again. For the purpose of their survival so that His plan could be fulfilled through Jesus Christ. The nation is not saved, but the Spirit is everywhere, working differently with all people. Notice I did not say all Jews were spiritually saved, by been drawn by God, or that they were indwelled by the Spirit.
Then say, " Why does residence on a particular patch of land give them special" Because God chose that nation first above all others.
---Mark_V. on 1/27/14


\\The Spirit of God was and still is with that nation.\\

So you believe the Holy Spirit is with people who reject the Son?

Don't forget that Israel is made up of people who would be called LOST if they lived anywhere else. Why does residence on a particular patch of land give them special spiritual status?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/26/14


Name one Christian organization that is boycotting Israeli products. In fact, can you name one Israeli product?
---KarenD on 1/26/14


PART 1

Cluny: "[Jews] stole the land from the inhabitants, many were Christians...the Christian population in modern Israel has DROPPED since its founding?"

Having twice lived and worked in Israel, visited and worked in Libya, Egypt, Syria and studied Middle East history and religion as part of my degree, Cluny, you're espousing nonsense.

Jews have always lived in Israel. The late 19th century Jerusalem census records a clear majority of Jews living in that city. It was the Romans who kicked the Jews out of that area in the 1st century. Now they've returned. Christians emigrated from the Middle East for many years, principally because of what Islam has done to them, hence the Islamic title of Dhimmi.
---Marc on 1/26/14


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PART 2

BTW, Cluny, the Jews initially bought most of the land from vacant Muslim landlords. They didn't squat or steal. In the original UN 1948 peace deal of an equal division of that land called Southern Syria, the Jews accepted a much smaller land area while the Muslims declared war.
---Marc on 1/26/14


Cluny, there is many things I know about Israel. God chose that nation above all others to bring the gospel to all people. The Spirit of God was and still is with that nation. Jesus Himself came through that nation. What happen and what is going to happen in Israel will happen the way God has ordained it. Whether there will be more or less Christians, whether it will maintain its power, whether they start a war, all of those things are known by God already. We as Christians wish more lived there, but we do not control anything. God does. All the Arab countries are trying to annihilate them.
I believe as a free country, we should continue to help them. Just as we try to help other countries many times who need help. I know not all.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/14


\Is Israel a really good nation? I cannot know, but it,s good enough. But I can say it is better than the countries around it!\\

Lebanon was carved out of Syria by the European powers at the end of WW1. IT was supposed to be a Christian country in the Middle East.

Would it have been better than the countries around it back then?

Did you know that the Christian population in the territory that is now the modern state of Israel has DROPPED since its founding?

What do you think of that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/25/14


Warwick, I agree with you and with Peter. We know not all Israel is Israel, which means not all are Jews, and not all belong to the Israel of God. We know that because if they were not Jews, the Arabs would not be trying to annihilate them. We know this goes back to the chosen Isaac over Ishmael. The Abrabs believe Ishmael is the chosen one for he was first. We also know that land was given to Israel by God, then they were scattered, and now they have come back. Since the death of Christ many hate the Jews because it was taught by the Church the Jews killed Jesus. But what they forget is that Christ died for the sins of the world which was ordained by God before the foundation of the world.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/14


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It is better that Israel survive, for the alternative would be disaster.

Is Israel a really good nation? I cannot know, but it,s good enough. But I can say it is better than the countries around it!

That is good enough for me to support it!
---Peter on 1/24/14


Aka, from personal experience and the experience of many others I know you are wrong. With all its faults Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and is a tiny place about the size of the tiny US state of Maryland. Israel would fit into Texas c25times.

Israel is surrounded by Islamic states many of which have voiced their desire to annihilate it, because they are Jewish. Maybe we should tell these violent people that Aka says they really are not Jews and maybe they will just go away.

About 20% if Israel's population are Arabs who live there because they can live better, and safer than in the surrounding Islamic countries.
---Warwick on 1/24/14


I once thought Christians were learned enough and discerning enough to see the truth of any matter but no, many are easily fooled by slick words.---Warwickon 1/23/14

if you think that the current state of israel that flies the star of solomon (not david) formed by the UN in 1948 is the real deal, then it is you that may be fooled. There is a difference between true jews and the israelis. There are many true jews that are not permitted in israel.

Revelation 2:9 KJV

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
---aka on 1/24/14


Anti-Zionism is not the same thing as anti-semitism.

I do not believe that the modern secular state of Israel has anything to do with the Biblical Israel. It is only the last great push of 19th century European colonialism. They came down from the countries mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39 and stole the land from the inhabitants, many of whom were Christians. If this makes me anti-Zionist, so be it.

However, this does not mean that Jews should be persecuted or harrased simply for being Jews. This would be anti-Semitism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/24/14


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Steven, who are this groups of Christians who are boycotting Israel? Can you give us some information? When you mention Christian groups it sounds like you want to speak against the Christians again since you always speak against the denominational churches. Maybe you have something new that many don't know about, so why don't you gives us some names of groups or churches that you know of who are doing this stuff you are talking about against Israel?
---Mark_V. on 1/24/14


God will make a way where there seems to be no way Isaiah 43:19. Persecutions are daily increasing not only against Israel but also the interest/servants of the only true God/Jesus world-wide, but it will go no further than God allows John 16:33.
---Adetunji on 1/24/14


Steven there are a lot of strange wackos out there. Israel is a tiny nation fighting for its very extistence against foes whose aim is its annihilation. I think it also ironic that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

I once thought Christians were learned enough and discerning enough to see the truth of any matter but no, many are easily fooled by slick words.
---Warwick on 1/23/14


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