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Jesus Set You Free

If Jesus set you free, what are you set free from?

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 ---BRYAN on 2/9/14
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Are you saying you never commit a sin?----Samuelbb7

Rom 8:10 says our body is dead (by faith) because of sin. As it's already dead (by faith) why would you judge our righteousness by its lifestyle?

Whilst Christians are not perfect in behavior, what God sees in us is Christ. And in Christ there is no sin.

As for 1John 1:8, read from beginning of chapter to see its evangelical context. It declares, eternal life so others also may have fellowship....with the Father and His Son. It's declaring the gospel to those in sin of unbelief. Remember its unbelief the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

If 1John 1:8 meant Christians then it would contradict 1John 3:6-9 which says we cannot sin.
---Haz27 on 3/3/14


Samuelbb7. Rom 8:4 to walk after Spirit = believe on a Jesus, saved by grace.
To walk after the flesh = unbelief = righteousness by works of law and even following lukewarm doctrines that mix grace with works.

Re Gal 5 you quote, remember that is all spiritual. Legalists walk after the flesh/unbelief. They're DRUNK with the wine of FORNICATION(Rev17:2) with Hagar (who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).

Scripture says Christians CANNOT sin, 1John 3:9, we've CEASED from sin, 1Pet 4:1, we're NOT sinners Gal 2:15.
This is only because of our position in Christ. It's not judged by outward appearances.
---Haz27 on 3/3/14


Hence we see Christians have ceased from sin, 1Pet4:1
We cannot sin, 1John 3:9 Haz27
Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Our Righteousness does come from JESUS. Are you saying you never commit a sin?
Gal 5:16,17

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

1John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

We are to not live in sin. But we will always need Grace.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/3/14


Correction to my earlier quote. It was 1Thess 4:3 I was quoting.
"this is the will of God, your sanctification: (which Christians have through Christ's offering, Heb 10:10) that you should abstain from fornication" (with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).

Legalists fail this and must repent of their unbelief (fornication with Hagar).

Christians abide in Christ, and in Christ there is no sin, 1John 3:5. Being in Christ, covered by his righteousness, Christians cannot be charged with sin, Rom 8:33, Rom4:15, as We're not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18.

Hence we see Christians have ceased from sin, 1Pet4:1
We cannot sin, 1John 3:9
---Haz27 on 3/1/14


//Why do you imagine they get chastened?//. Nana

Remember, it's the sin of unbelief the world is convicted of, John 16:9. It's our faith in Christ chastisement deals with.

James 1:3 also refers to chastisement, which is in the trying of our faith.
And note how this confirms Heb 12:11 which describes how chastening yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness"

our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5. Its in this we face chastisement, the trying of our faith

God's will is our sanctification (which we have through Christ's offering Heb 10:10) and that we abstain from fornication (with Hagar), 1Thess 4:10.

Legalists must repent or else they fail God's grace (Heb 12:15 & Gal 5:4)
---Haz27 on 3/1/14




Nana. You should use scripture in context. You ignore 1Tim 1:13 where Paul describes his past as a blasphemer and then you falsely claim 1Tim 1:15 is somehow present tense (in spite of the contradiction) and then also ignore Paul's claims elsewhere that he's not a sinner. This only discredits your position.

As for sanctification, again you miss what God says.
Heb 10:10
"we HAVE BEEN sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once

Sanctification is not a gradual process, as Heb 10:10 shows.

What you suggest is that those with deathbed salvation are not sanctified as they did not go through a gradual process of it.

BUT the thief on the cross was sanctified.
---Haz27 on 3/1/14


I am sure you'll trip some unsuspecting soul, to your loss.
---Nana on 3/1/14

James 3:1 gives a similar warning. Note the example it gives of error teaching. It describes legalists who preach a lukewarm mix of grace with works of law.
James 3:8-11
"we bless (love) our God and Father, and with it we curse (judge/condemn under law) men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing (love/grace) and cursing (judge/condemnation under law). My brethren, these things ought not to be so."

Legalists, drunk with wine of fornication with Hagar, preach a lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law. This ought not be so.

We cannot mix grace and works, Rom 11:6.
---Haz27 on 3/1/14


Isaiah 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Prophets, even our Lord did not boast of been good. Paul likewise used the present tense, "of whom I am chief."

Hebrews 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." Why do you imagine they get chastened and scourged?

"Christians were all sinners"
You skip santification altogether and preach pretense!
Carry on, I am sure you'll trip some unsuspecting soul, to your loss.
---Nana on 3/1/14


Nana. Christians were all sinners before we received Christ. Its this past record as a sinner that Paul refers to in 1Tim 1:15 describing his past as "chief sinner". Note 1Tim 1:13 for this context about his past.
1Tim 1:13
"Who WAS BEFORE a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious

But, as a Christian, Paul is no longer blaspheming, etc. He is no longer in the sin of unbelief.

Or, as Paul states in Gal 2:15
"We who are Jews by nature, and NOT SINNERS".

Paul would not contradict himself by saying in one place he remains a "chief sinner", and then in another scripture to say that he is "NOT SINNERS"
---Haz27 on 3/1/14


Micha is correct. When the law is mentioned it can mean the Ten commandments, the two commandments Jesus gave, or just plain obedience.--Luke

Luke
I agree.
My statement about "Works", was directed towards Paul's use of the word in his teachings on "Works and Grace".

My point, Paul was teaching that we can not be saved by keeping the Ten Commandments, because no man can keep that law. Which is why Paul also taught that we can not please God in sin.

But through the Law of Christ, we can please God (John 14:21).
If anyone doubts this, the next time the Lord puts his command into your heart, to help someone, and you obey this command, watch and see how God blesses you for your obedience.
---David on 3/1/14




Nana. Heb 12:1. What sin is the world convicted of? Its unbelief, John 16:9.

How is unbelief manifested?
Turning back to the law.

Note Heb 12:15 to see confirmation of the sin Heb 12:1 speaks of.
"lest any man fail of the grace of God"

How does one fail the grace of God? Gal 5:4
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW, ye are FALLEN FROM GRACE"

Note also Heb 12:16
"Lest there be any FORNICATOR, or profane person, as Esau"

Its the legalists who do the sin Heb 12:1 warns against. Legalists are drunk with wine of fornication with Hagar (symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24)
---Haz27 on 3/1/14


"What Gal 5 describes is allspiritual. Remember, scripture is spiritually discerned,..."
Haz27 on 2/28/14

Mark 5:2 "And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,..."
Oh yes, they have discernment-" What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not."

'"Sin" applies to those under the law, and "Christians are not under the law,"...'
That is so strange being that Paul said, "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." and
Hebrews 12:1
---Nana on 2/28/14


Samuelbb7 said, "We are all sinners"

Does scripture say this? No.
1Pet 4:18 "if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
2 different groups described here.
Group 1: righteous, saved
Group 2: ungodly, sinner.

Gal 2:15 "We who are Jews by nature, and NOT SINNERS

We've CEASED from sin1Pet 4:1
We CANNOT sin 1John 3:9.

"Sin" applies to those under the law, Rom 4:15, Rom 3:19.
Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.

Therefore "who shall lay ANYTHING ( this includes sin) to the the charge of God's elect?Rom 8:33
---Haz27 on 2/28/14


Those chapters you referred to, Samuelbb7, do not support you.

For example Gal 5 which describes works of flesh. Drunkeness is not one of the 10C yet it's described here as something that denies inheriting the kingdom of God.

What Gal 5 describes is allspiritual. Remember, scripture is spiritually discerned, 1Cor 2:14. Drunkeness is spiritual referring to being "drunk with wine of fornication" Rev 17:2.
Legalists are drunk with wine of fornication with Hagar, who is symbolic of righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24.

Can you explain your contradiction in suggesting that we are more forgiving than God is?
---Haz27 on 2/28/14


But Haz27 we also see warning about those who say that Christians cannot live in sin. In fact in Romans 5,6,7 there are chapters on that topic. Much less the book of First John, James and what JESUS himself says.
Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
No I am not saying the Thief is not saved. I am saying that a person who lives in sin is not saved. Read Galatians 5,6.
Being obedient does not show anything about us but that we are followers of JESUS. Yes all start as children. But Children are supposed to grow up. See First Corinthians 3.

My view is not contradictory.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/28/14


But Haz27 we also see warning about those who say that Christians can live in sin. In fact in Romans 5,6,7 there are chapters on that topic. Much less the book of First John, James and what JESUS himself says.
Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
No I am not saying the Thief is not saved. I am saying that a person who lives in sin is not saved. Read Galatians 5,6.
Being obedient does not show anything about us but that we are followers of JESUS. Yes all start as children. But Children are supposed to grow up. See First Corinthians 3.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/28/14


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Dear Haz

I am sorry it took me three posts to answer you. Last part.

You need to do a little study on Hebrews 6. You are misusing the verse. Otherwise Hebrews would not also teach about praying to JESUS our High Priest and First John would not speak of needing an intercessor in chapter 2.
No we do not believe you are still dirty for not washing your feet. I have washed the feet of a person who a great rift developed between us. It helped restore our fellowship.

Ceremonies help us and remind us. They do not save us we are saved by Grace alone.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/28/14


Righteousness, before God or man, God deals with both.

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
Matthew 25:31_46. It is a personal thing with Christ!

Galatians 6:7_9 "Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption, but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

Galatians 5:19_21 clearly define the "works of the flesh" of which he said, "that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
---Nana on 2/28/14


Pretty close to agreement Luke. I used to think that being least means they still might get in.

But as we study First John and see what least can mean it shows that those who teach that Christians can live in sin will not be saved.


Rom 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

A person who lives in sin cannot be Born Again.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/28/14


David, micha is correct. When the law is mention it can mean the Ten commandments, the two commandments Jesus gave, or just plain obedience. You are making a mistake interpreting the passages. Read the context first. In Matthew 5:17 Jesus is referring to obedience. If a Christian is disobedient and teaches others to be disobedient, he is least in the kingdom of heaven. God represents the law, believers teaching others to be disobedient to God is breaking His laws. But the subject is disobedience. We know no one can keep them all perfect. Only Jesus could do that.
---Luke on 2/28/14


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Hi, the previous answer reminded me to ask for prayer for my husband. He is considering entering a two-month Christ-centered treatment program--horray!! His best friend lives there so he could help him. My mother doesn't even believe my husband loves God--she doesn't, and doesn't see it in his life. Can someone pray for him--besides me--thanks sooo much!
---Mary on 2/28/14


Samuelbb7 said "If a person falls into the same sin over and over but ignores it and just says words without meaning them they also will be lost"

Samuel, your claim above suggests we're more forgiving than God is. Jesus told us to forgive 7x70, but you suggest that God Himself will not be as forgiving as we need to be. See the contradiction?

And what if a Christian forgets to repent? Are they lost?

Instead we see in Heb 6:1-6 that repentance is of dead works of self righteousness. And it describes repentance as a ONCE ONLY thing.

I know the SDA do foot washing for sins, to cleanse from sin. So do SDA's believe others are still dirty with sin because we do not do foot washing?
---Haz27 on 2/27/14


//a person who is not doing works is not saved.// Samuelbb7

Samuel, are you saying the thief on the cross is not saved because he didn't get to do any obedience to the law (10C)?

Instead we see the thief was saved because he did do good works. He did the works Jesus told us to do in John 6:29, to believe on him whom He has sent.

In regards to behavior, Christians will all be at different stages of growth hence we'll see different levels of behavior. But how good we behave is not a measure whether we are righteous.

Instead it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5. The thief on the cross is God's example to us of the good works of believing on Jesus.
---Haz27 on 2/27/14


//...would have people do as they please rather than as God advices.//

>>Nana, your claim above is a typical response from legalists in their attempt to lead others back under the law for righteousness by works.<<

The following response is also a legalistic statement.

//Because we are saved, we will want to go to church, we will want to read our bibles, and we would want to be around other Christians.//

Exactly the same as what many SDAs say about keeping the 10C and going to church on Saturday...just different rules.
---Rod4Him on 2/27/14


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Haz27, In all your highlighting, bold fonts, capitalization, you've said nothing- empty rhetoric.
---Nana on 2/27/14


Haz27 would have people do as they please rather than as God advices
---Nana on 2/26/14

Nana, your claim above is a typical response from legalists in their attempt to lead others back under the law for righteousness by works.

Legalists always argue that without the law as a measure of ones righteousness then Christians would run amok in selfish desire and debauchery. Just another false argument by legalists.

But we do see scripture warning us about the doctrine of these legalists.
Matt 16:6,12
"Beware the leaven (doctrine of righteousness by works of the law) of the Pharisees and Sadducees"

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump." Gal 5:9
---Haz27 on 2/27/14


The 10 can't explain fully the 2, but the 2 cover all.

Psa 40:8
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
micha9344
Agreed the 10 do not fully explain the 2. But the 2 are also part of the law of Moses.
David repented of his sin. In my post I stated that people who do not feel the need to repent because it is okay that the live in sin, are lost.
If a person falls into the same sin over and over but ignores it and just says words without meaning them they also will be lost. But it is not our job to judge. So a person who is not doing works is not saved. Why because they are not recreated by Christ Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/27/14


Sin applies to those who use the law(10C) to determine righteousness.

Gal 2:18 Legalists make themselves a sinner. Haz27
We are all sinners. Romans3 1John.
The 10c do not determine righteousness. I am not using it to do so. We are made righteous by the blood of JESUS, who saves us and creates us for good works Eph2:10 Christians are not supposed to live in sin.
Sin repented of is forgiven which includes King David. But those who do not repent are lost. On the adultery I cannot speak for all but repentance will bring forgiveness.
Now if a person is convicted that they need keep Sabbath and then says it is okay for me to live in unrepented sin. That person I would guess is lost. But only JESUS decides who is saved or lost.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/27/14


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These are false and misleading statements in direct opposition of Biblical doctrine.---micha9344 on 2/26/14

Micha
These statements are false and misleading and are in direct opposition, to your doctrine, not Biblical doctrine.

Paul taught we can not be saved by the "works of the Law".
What Law is Paul talking about?
It's the Law given to Moses.
How do we know this?
Because Paul said, "What good is the Law", and he answered that Question by stating, "By the law, (The Ten commandments), we recognize sin."

So when Paul used the term "works", he was talking about keeping the Law of Moses.
---David on 2/27/14


Nana. Are you saying God allows ONLY ONE mistake for Christians just like for King David? How many mistakes have you made?

As for 1Cor 6:8-11, you fail to discern spiritually, 1Cor 2:14.

1Cor 6:9,10 speaks of fornication, drunkeness, etc. But drunkeness is not in the 10 Commandments.
Is it an 11th commandment?
Or is it SPIRITUAL drunkeness, as Rev 17:2 describes about those "DRUNK with the WINE OF FORNICATION".
We all know there is no physical "wine of fornication", so clearly its spiritual.

Fornication, drunkeness is all spiritual referring to legalists fornicating with Hagar (symbolic for righteousness by works, Gal 4:24)


---Haz27 on 2/27/14


Deut. 6:5 and Lev. 19:18 are laws given under the Old Covenant of obedience to Israel. Israel was never able to keep them on their own, to love the Lord with all of their hearts, with all their souls and with all their strength. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. An impossible act the people could not keep.
Under the New Covenant that impossibility is now possible because God empowers the believer with the Spirit to make those laws possible beginning at Pentecost when the Spirit was given to all believers. It is the Spirit in the believers life that make those laws possible, "you love Him because He first loved you."
---Luke on 2/27/14


Samuelbb7 said "obedient to his commandments and....."

His commandments: believe on Jesus, and love one another 1John 3:23

Thus Christians have CEASED from sin 1Pet 4:1, CANNOT sin 1John 3:9. We're set free from sin, John 8:36,Rom 6:7.

Sin applies to those who use the law (10C) to determine righteousness.
How does one make themselves a sinner?
Gal 2:18 "if I build again those things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor"Sinner.
Legalists make themselves a sinner.

But for Christians, "Who shall lay ANYTHING (which includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?" Rom 8:33
---Haz27 on 2/27/14


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1 Corinthians 6:8_11 say Samuel is right.

"Based on your claim above you would believe that King David was lost due to his adultery + murder."
Haz27 on 2/26/14

In 1 Kings 15:3 it says that the heart of David was perfect with the LORD his God.
1 Kings 15:5 "Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite."

Haz27 would have people do as they please rather than as God advices
---Nana on 2/26/14


Samualbb7 said: "I do not believe liars, murders, slanderers, adulterers, and coveters. Who feel they can do these things are saved"

Samuel, can you clarify this view?
Above you are judging that such persons are lost due to their behavior.

Based on your claim above you would believe that King David was lost due to his adultery + murder.

Also many professing Christians divorce and marry another. This is adultery (Mark10:11,12). Do you believe they are lost too?

And what about the many Christians who do not keep the Sat Sabbath? Do you believe they are lost too?
---Haz27 on 2/26/14


Because we are saved, we will want to go to church, we will want to read our bibles, and we would want to be around other Christians.
---shira4368 on 2/26/14


//Must" concerns authority, "should" concerns morality, and "will" concerns willingness.//

Where are these distinctions in scripture? Sounds like a legalist's argrument.

//The HS inside every believer quides us toward correct discernment.//

That is exactly what one of the legalistic people used to say of why one keeps the 10C.
---Rod4Him on 2/26/14


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First. let me say that a commend you, Sam, on your high regard for scripture.
I believe that neither of us would doubt what is written.
I believe that our difference lies in interpretation and application.
My earlier point was that the 10C were the bedrock of the old covenant. I agree with your vv, that the 2 came from the Old covenant. Those 2 are what Jesus brought into the new covenant. The 10 are about justice, the 2 Royal Laws of Liberty, written in men's hearts (heart/love) are about mercy.
The 10 can't explain fully the 2, but the 2 cover all.
"Law" or "commands" throughout the whole bible don't need point to the 10C.
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.
---micha9344 on 2/26/14


"if one is saved, they must go to church, they must read their Bible, they must pray, and so on? How should one respond to these questions?"-Rod4Him on 2/26/14
"Must" concerns authority, "should" concerns morality, and "will" concerns willingness.
It is not that we must, but how else would you be getting to know your Saviour, else by some or all of those things above?
The HS inside every believer quides us toward correct discernment.
Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
---micha9344 on 2/26/14


Micha Please explain your point. I agree with the Verses.

Deu 6:5

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


Lev 19:18

... but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Many forget the Two Commandments about love are from Moses. And they Forget that all scripture is for teaching. 2tim3:16

Rod

Paul, James and John all speak of those who follow GOD being obedient to his commandments and not living in sin. See 1john, James 1 Galatians 5 and
Rom 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/14


"His actions and love which is outlined by His Commandments both Old and New give us guidelines."-Samuelbb7 on 2/26/14
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.
---micha9344 on 2/26/14


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Law verses Grace: Do not many people who believe in Grace alone almost immediately say, if one is saved, they must go to church, they must read their Bible, they must pray, and so on? How should one respond to these questions?
---Rod4Him on 2/26/14


Where we seem to differ is on the SDA incorrect focus on obedience to the law for righteousness and thereby claiming that people are unsaved if they don't attain some ambiguous minimum standard of lifestyle. Haz27

You stated many truths in your last two posts. But this part is incorrect. We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone and that is our emphasis. We are accused of because we do have some who choose to attack and judge. But JESUS CHRIST is the only Judge and we are all to remember that.

I disagree with that we have an ambiguous standard. JESUS is our standard. Every day we are to die to self and follow JESUS. His actions and love which is outlined by His Commandments both Old and New give us guidelines.1Cr 15:31
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/14


/"Works" is simply those things which we should not do..."Deeds" are those things which we should do...\-David on 2/26/14
These are false and misleading statements in direct opposition of Biblical doctrine.
Deed and Work are interchangeable in most cases. They even come from the same Greek words, such as "ergon." There is not a difference between the two in regard to "do not" and "do."
---micha9344 on 2/26/14


The fear the church has created for this word "works", has almost destroyed the church.

"Works" is simply those things which we should not do. That which was written in the Law of Moses.
"Deeds" are those things which we should do, these good deeds, these acts of Love, are the commands of Christ which we should keep. Paul called these commands "The Law of Christ".
---David on 2/26/14


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Samualbb7, you said:
"we can focus to much on what we should or should not do."

This is what legalists commonly do. Their focus is only on the law and they determine one's righteousness by obedience to it.

You also said: "when in a discussion the view is taken that Christians can do the things that are wrong and it is okay. Then that view needs to be corrected."

Agreed. And we see that God does discipline Christians should we do wrong. Nobody is going to profit by doing wrong.

Where we seem to differ is on the SDA incorrect focus on obedience to the law for righteousness and thereby claiming that people are unsaved if they don't attain some ambiguous minimum standard of lifestyle.
---Haz27 on 2/25/14


Samuelbb7
King David was an adulterer + murderer. The law would judge him just like you judge. BUT God judges righteously, loves, forgives.

Commandment No:1 is believe on Jesus, which results in salvation.

Commandment No:2 is love one another. Reality is in this imperfect world nobody is perfect. We all offend someone in some way, even unintentionally. And remember Christians will all be at different stages of growth. BUT, nobody will profit from doing wrong. Consider King David.

Love also forgives 7x70. So Commandment No:2 confirms whether one believes on Jesus or judges by works of law. If we judge instead of forgiving then we don't love. we're judging by the law, which is unbelief.
Remember Matt 18:21-35.
---Haz27 on 2/25/14


//But when in a discussion the view is taken that Christians can do the things that are wrong and it is okay. Then that view needs to be corrected.//

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.
---Rod4Him on 2/25/14


In over simple terms, I see it as a difference in focus. Do we focus and relay on our Saviour? Or do we focus on what we should or shouldn't do? Rod4Him

True we can focus to much on what we should or should not do. That can happen.

The center of our focus must always be JESUS so as to not let that happen.

But when in a discussion the view is taken that Christians can do the things that are wrong and it is okay. Then that view needs to be corrected.

John points out that our view must be on JESUS and when we are doing it correctly our actions will match our beliefs. Chuck Swindall was preaching on something similar today.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 2/25/14


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//..what is wrong then about the verse's I quoted...//?

Nothing is wrong with the verses.

//..what do they mean?//

//And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.//

It means, "That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

//So no I do not believe liars, murders, slanderers, adulterers, and coveters.//

In over simple terms, I see it as a difference in focus. Do we focus and relay on our Saviour? Or do we focus on what we should or shouldn't do?
---Rod4Him on 2/25/14


So Haz and Rod what is wrong then about the verse's I quoted what do they mean?

1John 3:23

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So when you love another you do not steal, lie, commit adultery, murder or covet what they have. So I am saying that love results in keeping the Commandment including the Ten. As noted in the passages before this by John not me. If you do not do these things you do not love.

So no I do not believe liars, murders, slanderers, adulterers, and coveters. Who feel they can do these things are saved. What do you think?
---Samuelbb7 on 2/25/14


One way we see it is how we respond to one another.
---Rod4Him on 2/24/14

True. Love does no ill to another. Love also forgives 7x70.
But as Christians will all be at different stages of growth how they respond to one another will vary, as you said.

But legalists reject Jesus's commandments described in 1John 3:22,23. Instead they judge one's righteousness by how good their behavior is. If you note the arguments of legalists they preach judgement/condemnation under law and an ambiguous limit to forgiveness.
---Haz27 on 2/25/14


"If Jesus set you free, what are you set free from?"

From the bondage of sin! Not from the requirements of the 10C Law, as some would have us believe. Jesus gives us power (grace) to overcome temptation to sin and thereby obey HIS Law. Sin is the transgression of the Law, and if (by God's grace) we keep His Law, then we are freed from sin and its resulting penalty - death.

To claim that Christ's sacrifice gives license to ignore His 10C Law and sin at will makes a mockery of the cross and of Jesus Himself.




---jerry6593 on 2/25/14


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//The commandments we keep are to believe on Jesus and love one another//

Agreed...however, even that says to "love one another." What's that, how is that done, how much is enough, how do we define that? Can we know that when we see it? To varying decrees, I say, yes. We believers are work in process. One way we see it is how we respond to one another.
---Rod4Him on 2/24/14


Rod4Him, note the post from Samualbb7. It is such that I refer to in saying that the term "practicing" sin is used by legalists or borderline legalists who try to mix works of the law with grace.

A Christians works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.

The commandments we keep are to believe on Jesus and love one another, 1John 3:22,23.

But the legalists always push the law (10C) instead, arguing that if one does not meet some ambiguous minimum standard of behavior then they're lost. Such doctrines are really saying that they reject Christ's sacrifice and prefer instead, righteousness by works of the law.
---Haz27 on 2/24/14


1John 2:3-5
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.


He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

A person who practices something is working at it steadily. Not doing every so often or having problems. We are to practice Righteousness.


1John 3:10 NASB

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: [fn]anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/24/14


//I found that those who use this term are often legalists or bordering legalists.//

Are saying the term "practicing' is used legalistically?"

I think I understand what you are saying. I find the concept of "good works" and legally keeping good works very challenging to differentiate to others. It's the difference between faith and works. Abraham had faith and works showed that faith. At Mount Sinai Israel did not have faith and they were given the law. Those without faith need the law to keep them in line. Those with faith don't need the law to keep them in line.
---Rod4Him on 2/24/14


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Rod4Him, I asked those questions to highlight the contradiction and error of the term "practicing" sin.
I found that those who use this term are often legalists or bordering legalists.

So are you suggesting that exceeding 7x70 is "practicing" sin?

Are you saying that those who practice sin are lost?
---Haz27 on 2/24/14


//What amount of "sin" is judged as "practicing" sin?//

"Practicing" seems to have the connotation of continuing-unbroken action. Jesus breaks the chain for a person. People are pretty good at putting the chain back together. Do we want the faith of Abraham or the faith of Moses?

//What is the exact limit that we must not exceed?//

That was Peter's question on how many times to forgive a person. The question sounds like a question from a legalistic person who has not been set free. However, at the same time one does need to hold onto, "There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." If there has been no change in actions, one should question having been set free.
---Rod4Him on 2/23/14


If one practices sin, they are a slave to sin. Jesus will set you free from practicing sin.
---Rod4Him on 2/13/14

What amount of "sin" is judged as "practicing" sin?

Is "practicing" sin exceeding 7x70 transgressions of the law? What is the exact limit that we must not exceed? This is very important to know as we see in 1John 3:8 that those who "practice" (CEB) sin are of the devil.

I ask these questions to highlight the contradiction and error of such doctrines. I've found so far that nobody is able to show from scripture exactly what is "practicing" sin.
---Haz27 on 2/22/14


We have been set "FREE" FROM the law (the law of commandments and ordinances, THE IMPERFECT LAW)....

...always question LOGICALLY (set "free" from WHAT?).

CAIN was set free to roam the earth, BUT God did not 'ABANDON' him (Cain was not "SET FREE" in a field to be ABANDONED....God set a mark of ownership on Cain...even though Cain was bound for hell).

God does not give up ownership of anyone, so James 1:25 and 2:12 say "law of LIBERTY" (it is NOT AN OPTION, it is THE LAW).
---faithforfaith on 2/20/14


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Before someone is set free of sin, they are called a slave of sin. If one is set free of sin, they are set free of their sinful master.

Many who sin, believe they have been set free and God is their master.
But if they have been set free of sin, why do they sin? If a man can not serve two masters, do they believe they are serving God with their sin?
---David on 2/19/14


1 Corinthians 15:34 "Awake to righteousness, and sin not, for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
1 Timothy 6:10_11 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But thou, O man of God, flee these things, and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."

2 Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

Paul said, "follow". Whosoever says otherwise belong here:
2 Timothy 3:13 "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."
---Nana on 2/16/14


Michael e and Trey have it right. We are set free from sin, which is transgression of the law (1John 3:4). We're not under the law for righteousness, hence we cannot be charged with its transgression/sin. Where there is no law there is no transgression/sin, Rom 4:15.

Who shall lay ANYTHING (which includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?
A Christians faith is counted for righteousness instead of works of the law, Rom 4:5

John 8:34-36 confirms that we're set free from sin.
---Haz27 on 2/15/14


If one practices sin, they are a slave to sin. Jesus will set you free from practicing sin.
---Rod4Him on 2/13/14


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Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
---Nana on 2/12/14


We are set free from the law of sin and death.
---Darlene_1 on 2/12/14


Thankfull,to the Lord he set me free. 1."Fornication- God has done what I could not do.1Cor.6:19,20.Gal.2:20

2.No longer out with old friends,but I do give food if come.Pro.14:12,15.

3.No longer greed for money
( 1Tim.6:10) a little is alot in the hands of God!

4.no longer seek revenge,seek get own way. Rom.8:1-4. Christ show me there is forgiveness for the sinner. 2Cor.5-11.

These are just a few but powerfull Gal.5:1. Pursue the fruits of the spirit joy,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,faithfullness.
---Lidia4796 on 2/11/14


FYI, it is not Josef's comment which I except.
That one is before his.
---Nana on 2/10/14


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I agree with all the comments so far until Josef 2/10/14.
All except but one.
---Nana on 2/10/14


"If Jesus set you free, what are you set free from?"
All things that would hinder our walk with Him.
Particularly, the enslavement to carnality of our thinking.
---Josef on 2/10/14


John8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

One way Christ (the knowledge of Him) has made us free from our dependence upon the law for salvation. Christ also stated:
Mt16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mt16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

The Pharisees and Sadducees relied upon observance of the law inorder to obtain righteousness. Sounds like some other denominations I know.
---trey on 2/10/14


Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin,
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
---michael_e on 2/10/14


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In addition to what Scott1 wrote, the Lord also helps us to overcome attitude-problems like anger, haughtiness, fear, lie-telling etc.
---Adetunji on 2/10/14


Jesus said that if we abide in Him, we will know the Truth and the Truth will set us free. John 8:31-40. The Truth in His Words frees us from the lies (tares) planted by Satan. Matt 13:37-43.
---barb on 2/10/14


my sins, my unholy vows, my curses, passivity,

others peoples sins against me, generational curses from parents,

just to name a few
---Scott1 on 2/10/14


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