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Sabbath Before Moses

Is there any evidence that the seventh day Sabbath was practiced before Moses' time?

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 ---1st_cliff on 2/19/14
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Kathr: "Since the new heaven and earth will not take 6 days, I don't believe the original earth, Genesis 1:1 did either."

So you are essentially calling God a liar!

---jerry6593 on 3/3/14

No Jerry, YOU ARE. Who said anything about the original earth having sea creatures? or the New Earth having sea creatures?

You all call God a Liar by saying God LIED in Job 38, where angels and STARS existed before the foundation of the earth was complete.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/14


After the fall, again no such LAW was stated or even mentioned. kathr4453
Jerry, You're ducking the question here, no obligation, command, requirement, law or the like was instituted "till" Moses led God's people! God simply stated that "He" rested!
1st_cliff

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So both of you are saying that this verse is lying? You are saying that adultery, murder, stealing, worshipping idols, taking GOD'S name in vain were all fine then.

You are also saying Noah did not know about clean and unclean animals?


Gen 7:2

Of every clean beast...
---Samuellb7 on 3/3/14


To those who have or have not come late to this conversation, Warwick AGAIN says I believe there was man before Adam. LIE LIE LIE LIE. all death of man came after Adams sin as there was no such thing as MAN before Adam.

Warwick you are now in the category of the markv's...lies twists and total dishonesty just like Markv showing YOU too can't read or comprehend, AND like ALL CULTS you all have this same pattern I am glad is now exposed here of you Warwick. I had no idea how evil you really are.

Don't you ever ever address me again on these blogs,
---kathr4453 on 3/3/14


Kathr: "Since the new heaven and earth will not take 6 days, I don't believe the original earth, Genesis 1:1 did either."

So you are essentially calling God a liar!

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:

As a physicist with training in Historical Geology, I found your description of geologic formation fascinating. I can't wait for the next episode tomorrow.



---jerry6593 on 3/3/14


Cliff: "First mention of Sabbath was Ex.16.23 thousands of years after creation!"

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested [Heb: "shabath"] on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

I'll bet you would argue with God Himself, should you ever get to meet Him.



---jerry6593 on 3/3/14




Warwick, You should talk! You don't even believe your own statements, IE "death spread to all men..." Not animals!
---1st_cliff on 3/3/14


Warwick, I believe your understanding of In Adam all die is not accurately understood in your debate here. For everything to be In Adam, Adam would have to have been created first before plants and animals, or even the earth itself, and like Eve, finding their original existence from the very body of Adam. Where did God take Adams toe nail to make plants, or his earlobe to form animals? Then we can say all is in Adam. Angelic beings are not in Adam, or the sun or moon or stars, in Adam. When did God create carnivorous animals? Are you saying no carnivorous animals existed before the 6th day? Was the death of their prey a result of Adams sin? No scripture supports such a view.
---Anonymous on 3/3/14


Kath, your refusal to answer this relevant question make it obvious you evade doing so as an honest answer would expose your Biblically serious error.

To those who have come late into this exchange between myself and Kath the point is her belief in the Gap Theory places death of man before Adam's sin whereas God's word says "..sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" Romans 5:12. As Scripture says Jesus came to die physically (Romans 6:23) upon the cross and rise again to overturn the curse of death, disease and suffering caused by Adam's sin. There is only onefoundation for the one and only gospel.
---Warwick on 3/2/14


Warwick, I have already given that answer. You just want to use this to avoid answering my questions. Your bad.

And to be honest, this is not where I put my energy into to begin with. Since I do not believe in a preadamic existence, I already gave what I THINK, but can't prove. Please go back and read on the closed blog before this one. I gave my possibilities in three continuous posts.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/14


Ok Summarize again. can't Carbon date between Adam and Noah, with after Noah on the same scale. God may have buried all who died re: Noah flood so deep, it was mixed with the original creation before it became without form and void contaminating DNA. I bet earthquakes, valcano's under the water etc during the time of Noah flood sucked in and opened the earth to bury much even deeper than we know. This is MY thoughts and may be nonsense to everyone, and may be. BUT there is an explanation we just don't have the real answer to.

OK??? But please don't rag on my thoughts...tomorrow I may have a totally different one....but I really DON't give it that much thought in the first place.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/14




Finally, I do believe the original earth was perfect, and somewhere on the original earth was a place called the Eden of God, that Lucifer walked up and down, and angels had dominion over before they fell, before the 6 days where God created and MADE .

Since the new heaven and earth will not take 6 days, I don't believe the original earth, Genesis 1:1 did either.

There is evidence of chaos, asteroids hitting the earth etc. I believe this was the result of God's judgement on those angels who fell. After all, this earth will also melt away in fire, because of judgement of our sin and God's final final judgement on satan as well.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/14


God blessed and santified the seventh day. What do you think sanctify means? God blessed that day and "set it apart for holy use."

Genesis 2:3
Nehemiah 13:22
Jeremiah 1:5
Ezekiel 20:12
John 17:17
Acts 20:32
1 Corinthians 6:11
1 Corinthians 7:14

Not only was the seventh day santified forever, so are the christians unless, of course, they fall away from the faith as christians fall away from the seventh day.
---Steveng on 3/2/14


Kath, as long as you refuse to answer the simple question: in your belief where do you place the fossil record?-I will know you refuse to do so because an honest answer will prove that your belief undermines the foundations of the gospel.

However you can prove me wrong at any time by answering.

BTW I have read all your many triple blogs and you have never answered this question.
---Warwick on 3/2/14


Jerry, God wasted no time telling Adam the consequences of disobedience regarding the tree! Did He forget to tell him about the "Sabbath"?
First mention of Sabbath was Ex.16.23 thousands of years after creation!
Admit it Jerry there was no "obligation" to hold Sabbath before Moses!
---1st_cliff on 3/2/14


Jerry, Romans 5 clearly say there was no law until Moses. The reason God could not kill Cain for killing Abel was because no law said do not kill. God did tell Noah not to kill, but no 10 commandments or rather 9 were added to it.

Romans 5: between Adam and Moses there was not law.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/14


Cliff: "Jerry, You're ducking the question here,no obligation, command, requirement, law or the like was instituted "till" Moses led God's people! God simply stated that "He" rested!"

BCV please. Your claim that God did not institute the Ten Commandments until Moses is without scriptural support. Is there any part of the Bible that you DO believe?



---jerry6593 on 3/2/14


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Warwick, I don't need to refresh your memory, because you never read it to make original memory. You have not read anything I have said, throughout this discussion, and have refused to acknowledge even my first questions to you, and you still are refusing to answer by accusing me of beating around the bush. Your game, not mine. Mine is not a version, but what the Lord showed through scripture, includes the END as well as other deeper truths, not another man's version like your own.

Since this came up, I looked up the gap theory and I have not found one I exactly agree with but see there are variations. I also looked up young earth and you all like yourself and cults turn a blind eye to scripture that doesn't fit into your theory.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/14


Warwick, The Lord taught me scripture teaches scripture, that any verse needs to be backed up by a witness of one or two other. I ask Him wisdom of what this or that means, and He answers me. This has been our relationship for well over 30 years. Sometimes the answer to a question may take months or years, having to grow into a truth, And has taught me to pay great attention to DETAIL, as well as EVERY WORD. So personally I have NO agenda to promote another's theory or works.

TheGap when paying close attention, and rightly dividing the word using ALL the word of God is there.

Without form and void with darkness ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, not Ben Franklin, is and points to a time of judgement, NOT CREATION.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/14


So hopefully this will conclude our discussion on a positive note. There are errors on all sides here, both in the various gap theorists! as well as NEO new earth creationists. I believe in a literal 24 hour day, because that is backed up in scripture, where I see many Gaps do not...Their BAD. Young earth puts Lucifer and angels during the 6 days...YOUR BAD. These are absolute vital truths that cannot be swept under the earths mantel, because anyone can excavate that truth out of the Bible.

So Warwick, throw out all man has taught you,and just start new, and Ask GOD for the wisdom, and ask in FAITH, not other mans definitions or twists who have agenda's. And don't bounce back and forth making yourself double minded.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/14


Kath, correct, there are many versions of the Gap Theory. The first is often called the classical Gap Theory. It evolved as its many antiBiblical consequences were exposed. Please refresh my fallible memory and remind me of the main details of your version. How about starting by telling us where you place the fossil record? I believe you have refused to answer because you know your belief places death of humans before sin, a view which demolishes the gospel.

You wrote "God never said unless you believe in the young earth theory you will go to hell." Who has?

I have not promoted Sabbath keeping. Stick to the truth.

Formless means without shape, and void (not voidless as you write) means empty.
---Warwick on 3/1/14


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The proponents of the gap theory have not Warwick.

I already answered your question on the other blog about fossil records, and don't have the time or patience to state again what you never read in the first place.

Stop playing games Warwick. Again, there are many views to the gap! not just your one view you believe speaks for all.

Also the young earth creationists don't all agree on every issue either.

Question, was satan created before the earth? Why do you refuse to answer this?
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


You don't answer because you believe it has nothing to do with anything. However it has everything to do with it. On what scripture basis do you conclude without form and voidless means what you define it as? Truth comes in two' sand threes. I already showed you the verse defining without form and void and darkness. Yet you reject scripture teaching scripture. So with that we have nothing to discuss.

God never said unless you believe in the young earth theory you will go to hell.

So stop wasting my time on an issue that will never bring salvation to anyone but only Satan's filibuster to distract from the CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


And finally Warwick, your promoting a sabbath keeping, and not taking a strong stand on the NEW creature in Christ not under any law to do so shows again you do not understand scripture or any spiritual application to words and meanings! but only read with a literal unregenerate mind. Therefore you really have no clue about the real gospel you say is trampled.

So I will end with: this is my belief, as The Lord has shown me, not man, and if I heard Him wrong, that's between me and Him, and has nothing to do with this inquisition you feel is your God given duty. I am not accountable to you, as you feel you have the right to exalted yourself to be a judge of God's.

I will now AVOID you Warwick.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


Kath, still you duck and weave. Again I ask in your belief where is the fossil record placed?

You are now misrepresenting what I have said. I referred you to the results of scientific testing done upon human remains found the fossil record. This testing shows these were humans of the same genetic order as we, i.e. our ancestors.

BTW I have not proposed there were once soulless humans, but that proponents of the Gap Theory propose this.

BTW the presence of a soul is not something which can be established by DNA testing.

Please answer the question above.
---Warwick on 3/1/14


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Jerry, You're ducking the question here,no obligation, command, requirement, law or the like was instituted "till" Moses led God's people! God simply stated that "He" rested!
Point being ,for thousands of years it was not a requirement for humans to observe Sabbath!
NO penalties!
---1st_cliff on 3/1/14


you have ably demonstrated that your view is solely based upon idle speculation and the nonBiblical views of fallible sinful man who was not there at the beginning.

---Warwick on 2/28/14

Here is another silly comment stating YOUR view is correct because YOUR infallible sinless men "were there" in the beginning.

Warwick, when do you believe angels were created, before or after man? Before or after the foundation of the world. Do you believe Job 38 or not.

And as God is saying to you exactly what He said to Job, where were YOU when all this was done in that very same chapter. These are GOD's words and not man's words. If you don't get that right, you have no foundation of any TRUTH to begin with.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


Warwick I already answered your question you simply did not read, but falsely accused me of again believing in a preadamic existence that I said I do not.

You made some very strange statement of scientists supposedly finding human remains without souls.

Question, has anyone ever found the remains of a human with a soul? Wouldn't you need one with a soul to test against one without? Are you of the belief the soul is taking a dirt nap attached to the remains of human bones to begin with? NUTS to that.

Your arguments are silly, and only come from your silly NEO unregenerate religious men like John Calvin.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


God IS light. Not God created light. Do you know the difference Warwick. In Rev we see again no sun or moon for the LORD will be the very LIGHT itself. Paul was blinded by the Glory of that light on the road to Damascus, with that same GLORY Jesus had before he left glory and entered this dark world. And even leaving that kind of glory he still in human form was/is THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD.

these are truths Warwick the unregenerate mind, no matter how religious as you are can never grasp. And without that truth shown you, you will never understand the Gospel to begin with you claim is destroyed. Maybe your bogus gospel as one of millions, but not the REAL gospel of scripture.

Now go hunt down Joseph and bash him.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


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Kath stop ducking and weaving and tell us where the fossil record is placed in your belief. You avoid this as you know it will expose the fact that your belief demolishes the gospel.

BTW darkness (as Genesis 1:3 shows) is not the absence of God but simply the absence of light. "Let there be light and there was light."

"The earth was formless (Hebrew tohu) and empty" (Hebrew bohu) which carries no suggestion of any judgement or destruction but simply a description of forming and filling. Which of course concurs with the rest of Genesis ch.1.

Tohu appears a few times in the OT, used in a morally neutral sense to describe something unfinished with no necessity to imagine evil was present.
---Warwick on 3/1/14


Cliff: "Only at that point in time did it seem like a serious regulation!"

What is wrong with your grasp of the English language? "Remember" is a word that points to the past - not to the future. Within the Commandment itself God points to the exact time that the Sabbath was created - Creation Week. But since you don't believe most of the Bible, I can understand why you exhibit such mental gymnastics to try to negate it. It's not working here!



---jerry6593 on 3/1/14


We'll TODAY those IN Christ! those who are a new creature IN Christ , those who have entered INTO His rest for all eternity are now under the Law of Liberty. And this deposit of the particular law will be for all eternity in the new heaven and earth where no sun, moon days or nights will exist. There will be no particular day in the new heaven and earth anyone is requires to REST on a particular day?

And anyone who KNOWS the Gospel and believes the Gospel and has been saved by the Gospel message KNOWS this.

What you are talking about Steveng is RELIGION. Christ IS our life...religion is not.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


Does anyone imagine Adam and Eve were unaware the seventh day (every seventh day) was declared by God to be a holy day? I would be surprized if Adam and Eve did not honour the seventh day, treating it as no other day.

---Warwick on 2/21/14

And this is called the opinion of man without any biblical fact to support. If the 7 the day was so very important it would have been clearly stated. Before sin, there would have been no reason to keep a day holy. They walked with God personally and intimately everyday in fellowship in the garden.

After the fall, again no such LAW was stated or even mentioned. No one was told to,gather food for 6 days but not the 7th.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


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God's laws are unchanging and eternal and have been established from the foundations of the world. God is eternal and so are his laws. God's laws are based upon God himself which is based upon the ultimate commandment - love, genuine love. The spiritual laws of God shows us the nature and character of God. All the laws of God hangs upon the word "love" - from the ultimated commandment, the ten commandments, and the mosaic 613 commandments of Moses and the prophets. Read Romans 7:7-25
---Steveng on 2/28/14


Rom 8:1-4 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
What is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ?
What is the law of sin and death?
Which law "could not do"?
What is the righteousness of the law?
The 10C should be of no concern to those in Christ.
---micha9344 on 2/28/14


Hebrews 13:20-21 also state nothing about any Sabbath.

Abraham was also inputed righteous before circumcision, based on faith alone in EVERLASTING COVENANT, not NEW Covenant.
kathr4453


Neither does it say do not murder, no Adultery or any of the other Ten Commandments so they are not okay to disregard? But we know that GOD gave Abraham laws. Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The EVERLASTING Covenant is what we are under. The New Covenant only replaced the Mosaec Covenant given exclusively to Jews.

kathr4453

In Hebrews it states we are under the New Covenant.

Hebrews 8:8-13, 12:24
---Samuelbb7 on 2/28/14


Jerry You're reading more into it than is actually written:
Sure God wrote with His finger that the Sabbath should be remembered,from that point on, because previously they were not instructed, only told that God rested the 6th day of creation!
Some followed that practice on a weekly basis,but it seems more like a voluntary act than a regimented law!
Only at that point in time did it seem like a serious regulation! It became law!
---1st_cliff on 2/28/14


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//
No real meaning was attached to Sabbath before Sinai!

---1st_cliff on 2/27/14
//


You are absolutely unteachable. The people (Israelites, Egyptians and others) would have starved to death without manna and you say there was no real meaning! God Himself wrote that we all should "remember" the Sabbath, that it was holy, and that He instituted it at Creation, and you say there was no real meaning! Good grief!



---jerry6593 on 2/28/14


Steveng, If you belong to a trade union you get saturday and sunday off work! Work 5 rest 2 !
---1st_cliff on 2/28/14


What if you people are wrong concerning that the Sabbath, apparently the least of the commandments, does not matter? Whether it was before Moses time or not?

What is wrong about taking the Sabbath day, Saturday, off? Are you that selfish that taking that day off to walk with God interfere with your personal weekend activities?

Obviously this is a strong debate. But isn't it better to be safe than sorry?
---Steveng on 2/27/14


1st_cliff: "No real meaning was attached to Sabbath before Sinai!"

Are you just guessing or are you absolutely, positively sure? Could there have been another word or phrase that meant the same thing that the translators of the bible didn't catch?

Are you saying there were no laws between the time of Adam and Moses?

Where were you when Adam and Eve were created? Don't you believe that God's laws was formed since the beginning?

Psalm 119:160
Isaiah 40:21
Isaiah 46:10
Isaiah 48:3
John 1:1
1 John 2:7
1 John 3:8
Revelation 1:8
Revelation 21:6
Revelation 22:13
---Steveng on 2/27/14


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Jerry, So, OK moses seemed to have somewhat of a grasp on what the "Sabbath" meant (Ex16.23 first scriptural use of the word Sabbath) shortly before Sinai. The people were ignorant of this practice as some went to gather manna despite Moses' warning!
No real meaning was attached to Sabbath before Sinai!
---1st_cliff on 2/27/14


The New Covenant replaced the Old or Moseac Covenant. Abraham was not given any Mosaec Covenant. The everlasting covenant was stated in Genesis 3:15, and more fully REVEALED to Abraham with no mention of any Sabbath keeping. The everlasting covenant is an UNCONDITIONAL Covenant between God, the Word and the Holy Spirit before the foundation of the world concerning redemption, not conditional laws.

Hebrews 13:20-21 also state nothing about any Sabbath.

Abraham was also inputed righteous before circumcision, based on faith alone in EVERLASTING COVENANT, not NEW Covenant.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14


The EVERLASTING Covenant is what we are under. The New Covenant only replaced the Mosaec Covenant given exclusively to Jews.
No Sabbath Keeping was ever instituted under the EVERLASTING COVENANT.
kathr4453
We are under the Everlasting Covenant made with Israel.
Hebreww 8:8... I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Read Ephesians Galatians.
You say it was not because you want that to be true.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
You cannot show it was not kept. I must infer it since I know GOD does not change and what Genesis 1 and Exodus 20 says. What Biblical reason do you have for saying it is not?
---Samuelbb7 on 2/27/14


//
Jerry, ** The Sabbath was practiced before Mt.Sinai **
BCV.?

---1st_cliff on 2/25/14
//


Cliff, why must I keep on schooling you when you refuse to learn?

Exo 16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day, for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it, but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.

Note that this occurred BEFORE they reached Mt. Sinai.



---jerry6593 on 2/27/14


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God never warned Christains about hoping they don't have to flee to anywhere on any sabbath when HIS wrath comes? WE, those who have ENTERED INTO HIS REST, are saved from the wrath to come, called being translated out, or the being cought up. Paul once experienced that of being cought up, so the impossibility is not there. Enoch was also translated out.

Unsaved JEWS and unsaved Gentiles are the recipients of the WRATH of God. All through out the OT the Jews have been warned about the day of His wrath called the Day of The Lord. Matthew is written to Jews.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14


Steveng: You ask pointed, but unanswerable (by the Commandment deniers) questions. The only possible answer to these questions is one of the following:

(1) God was just kidding on Mt. Sinai.

(2) God was lying at Mt. Sinai.

(3) God was forgetful after Mt. Sinai.

(4) God is incompetent.


I don't believe any of these. I wonder which one(s) our Commandment-denying brethren believe.




---jerry6593 on 2/27/14


Why would God establish the seventh day rest, and even sanctified it, then undo it, then re-establish it?

Why would he warn the christians that their escape would not be on the sabbath or during the winter in the end days?
---Steveng on 2/26/14


Samuel, Abraham was not called a Jew. Abraham is the father of MANY NATIONS, meaning Gentiles and Jews. those verses do not mean a gentile becomes a Jew INWARDLY. The INWARD MAN is a totally new creation, neither Jew or Gentile.

Also the Covenant with Abraham was sealed in Circumcision, again not given or demanded of Gentiles.

The EVERLASTING Covenant is what we are under. The New Covenant only replaced the Mosaec Covenant given exclusively to Jews. The New Covenant comes under the umbrella of the Everlasting Covenant. The Blood of Jesus, His death and resurrection is the EVERLASTING COVENANT, Hebrews 13:20-21

No Sabbath Keeping was ever instituted under the EVERLASTING COVENANT.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/14


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God NEVER made a covenant with a Gentile Nation. And this Covenant was not even Given to Abraham.

kathr4453

You are ignoring Genesis 26,5 and
Gal 3:6-9

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

So when we accept JESUS we are no longer Gentiles but Children of Abraham. We are Jews inwardly. Romans 2:29

We are part of the Israelite New Covenant. Ephesians 2:11,12

Your argument is false.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/14


The Sabbath will even be observe in the new heavens and the new earth. Isaiah 66:23
---Steveng on 2/25/14
Yes this is the shadow of "things to come" Paul told us of in Colossians 2 along with feast days etc, but this is not the new heaven and earth, but the 1000 year reign when kingdom LAW will be established, before the new heaven and earth come to be.

In the new heaven and earth there will be no days or nights, no sun or moon measuring days. All will have forever entered His rest in it total fulfillment of that truth.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/14


Jerry, ** The Sabbath was practiced before Mt.Sinai **
BCV.?
---1st_cliff on 2/25/14


In the Old Testament, only the Israelites were God's people. God gave them the Sabbath as the sign to identify them as His people. God also says that the stranger (gentiles) who wants to keep the Sabbath, let him. Gentiles could become naturalized citizens of Israel any time, and thousands did. Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not Jews or Israelites only. Not only that, He made it for all mankind for all time, including today!

Isaiah 56:1-3, 7
Romans 3:29
Acts 18:4

There is a warning to christians during the end days about the sabbath. Matthew 24:20

The Sabbath will even be observe in the new heavens and the new earth. Isaiah 66:23
---Steveng on 2/25/14


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Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:16
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

God NEVER made a covenant with a Gentile Nation. And this Covenant was not even Given to Abraham.
---kathr4453 on 2/25/14


The Bible gives not one hint that these Laws were optional, temporary or made for a select few.-jerry6593 on 2/25/14
-This is where you and others falter, Jerry.
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:
Act 21:24 ...but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
---micha9344 on 2/25/14


Gen 26:5

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Since they are not listed we cannot know what they are exactly. But to say they are the same or similar to what Moses taught since GOD does not change is biblical.

A few of the Ten commandments are referred to.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/25/14


Either the Ten Commandments are the authentic, universal and eternal will of God or they are not. The Bible gives not one hint that these Laws were optional, temporary or made for a select few. We find them to be in force from Eden through the earth made new. Abraham kept God's Commandments. The Sabbath was practiced before Mt. Sinai, and many non-Israelites (mixed multitude) were also given the verbal and written Law. Jesus kept the Law and ratified it. He even stated that He did not come to destroy it. To claim that He did, is to call Him a liar.


---jerry6593 on 2/25/14


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Steveng, The other commandments were not going to be a weekly concern, remember the Sabbath will occur each week, the other 9 commandments not!
---1st_cliff on 2/25/14


Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Well, regardless of what was or wasn't then according to one's own conscience and understanding....TODAY, the BODY of CHRIST, has entered into an eternal rest in Christ, which means we are at REST IN HIM 24/7/365. We are Holy because HE is Holy.

The real issue today is have you ENTERED His rest? Hebrews 3-4 is a warning about those who have failed to ENTER in, not keep a specific day.

Genesis 2:1-3 says nothing about stoning a man for not keeping the sabbath day of rest or any consequences if one did not.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/14


1st_cliff: "They were never "instructed" about what a seventh day would entail! Only the God rested! He never said "You do this also!""

Sure, God rested on the seventh day, but he also sanctified it meaning to make holy, set apart to make sacred.

The fourth commandment is the only commandment that has "remember" in front of it. If it was to remember "from this day forward" why are not the other nine commandments? Do the other nine are not to be remembered?

Remember, the word of God was instilled in the hearts of men from the beginning before their hearts turn to stone.
---Steveng on 2/24/14


Genesis 2:1-3, testified that the seven day sabbath was there before Abraham was born.And the seven day sabbath was not made for the People of Israel as many people were made to understand by quake biblical hermeneutics.
---Eric_Amesimeku on 2/24/14


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Well Steven that is an assumption which could be true. But considering that Moses had already talked about the Sabbath and that the Manna Miracle was already occurring that would make you assumption invalid. Exodus 16

Second reason is that GOD states the reason you are to keep the Sabbath is for creation he set the Sabbath aside. Now I cannot show from the Bible that GOD told Adam. But why would you set aside a day of rest for people and then not tell them about it?

After all the day of rest is not for GOD.

If the Seventh day was no longer the Sabbath in the New Testament. Why did they still call it Sabbath?
---Samuelbb7 on 2/24/14


Steveng, How could they "remember" something that never happened?
It's like remember "from this day forward" (or don't forget)
They were never "instructed" about what a seventh day would entail! Only the God rested! He never said "You do this also!"
Just what were they supposed to "remember?" (NO it's remeber from this day on)
---1st_cliff on 2/23/14


1st_cliff: "No one was "commanded" to observe a 7th day 'till Sinai !

The fourth commandment is the only commandment to begin with the word "Remember." If something is to be remembered, it must have been spoken of in the past.

Remember: the commandments were written in the hearts of man since the beginning. Man's heart became like stone and, therefore, could not hear from the heart. So God had to write it on tablets for the people to see it again.

Why would God tell us about the Sabbath in the beginning, then tell us to don't do it, and then tell use to remember it at the end times and in the new heavens and the new earth?

The Sabbath is always.
---Steveng on 2/23/14


Jerry, Your insistence of it being a LAW from the beginning defies Romans 5 clearly stating there was no Law before Moses. And even when Romans 1-2 talk about the law of conscience, or moral law, no mention of a sabbath there either.

God rested from His work and sanctified the 7 day which pointed to the new creation resulting in the salvation of man where Christ is the head. 6= earthly man, 7 is absolute total perfection that only comes IN Christ and HIS fulfillment of all things when Christ said " IT IS FINISHED".

You need to understand Hebrews 3-4 to understand what true REST is.
Paul clearly understood stating in Colossians 2 that we are complete = 7 IN HIM. Jesus gave us REST in HIM.
---kathr4453 on 2/23/14


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Kathryn: Your grasp of Bible history seems a bit lacking. When a people are enslaved and forced to work 7 days a week for 400 years, it is understandable that they would forget the Sabbath. It is also understandable that heathen nations such as Egypt, with their Sun-god worship would not keep God's true Sabbath. From the time of Adam until the present day, God has always had a people who kept the Commandments of God. Although the numbers may have been small at times (8 in the case of Noah and his family), and under extreme persecution (the Waldenses during the papal persecution), yet to this day, God has His 7000 (figuratively speaking) who have not bowed the knee to the Sun-god, and keep God's Commandments rather than man's.

---jerry6593 on 2/23/14


Jerry, you say it is excusable Israel forgot the sabbath while in Egypt. But aren't you saying this was not a Jewish thing but something instituted at the beginning of creation? Sacrifice was not forgotten, nor circumcision, although we see circumcision was neglected to those born in the wilderness during the 40 years until they entered the promise land, but all then after crossing were I fact circumcised. If it was not just given to Israel, wouldn't Egypt have also practiced a sabbath rest? So,Israel forgetting because they were in captivity wouldn't be a reason for forgetting. Even Jews in hiding and or scattered for years and years have never to this day forgotten the sabbath. And we see no other culture practicing any sabbath rest ever.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/14


It was excusable that the Israelites had forgotten the Sabbath day, as they had been in slavery for 400 years. That's why God sent them the lesson of the manna long before they got to Mt. Sinai. He began the fourth Commandment with the word REMEMBER. Jesus kept the Seventh-day Sabbath as our example, and He apparently knew which day of the week it was.

Now it seems that many of Christ's followers today have once again "forgotten" which day of the week is the seventh - notwithstanding the invention of calendars and modern Astronomy. How strange that most can "remember" Good Friday and Easter Sunday while "forgetting" that the Sabbath is right between them.



---jerry6593 on 2/22/14


Job we see evidence of the belief of the resurrection, sacrifice instituted from the moment of Adam's sin, but absolutely no mention whatsoever of a sabbath keeping day.

The 7th day, also pointed to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, when Jesus said " it is finished". 7 in scripture means finished, complete.

Those in Christ are Complete IN Him, having ENTERED HIS REST. Entering and keeping are two entirely different things. Entering is an eternal position. If Jesus today is not keeping a sabbath day, as heaven has no nights and days, neither are those IN Christ keeping an earthly day. Being seated with Christ in heavenly places, You simply cannot ENTER IN on Saturday and enter out Sunday through Friday .
---kathr4453 on 2/22/14


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Whether Adam and Eve rested each seventh day may or may not have been the case. No one was "commanded" to observe a 7th day 'till Sinai !
If they did it wouldn't have had to be reinstituted!
---1st_cliff on 2/22/14


Genesis 2:3 "And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy."

Exodus 20:11 "..the Lord blessed the seventh day and made it holy."

This therefore is not something new but a restatement of Genesis 2:3.

Does anyone imagine Adam and Eve were unaware the seventh day (every seventh day) was declared by God to be a holy day? I would be surprized if Adam and Eve did not honour the seventh day, treating it as no other day.

I am not pushing a denominational line as I am not sure which day the 7th day is. I worship every Sunday and treat it as a holy day of worship and rest.
---Warwick on 2/21/14


It is evident throughout scripture that there is only one unique, holy and distinct Sabbath Day, created by God and assigned by Him as a perpetual reminder of His authority as the one and only, unique Creator of all that exists. It is His seal of sovereignty. He wrote with His own finger that it was instituted at Creation - not at Sinai. Jesus confirmed that it was made for ALL men - not just Jews.


Those who prefer man-made counterfeit rest days do not have the seal of the Creator God - just a cheap imitation.



---jerry6593 on 2/22/14


A rose by any other name is still a rose.

The word "Sabbath" is called several things: "Sanctified," "seventh day," "[God's] holy day," and "Sabbath" mean the same thing, "to be set apart for holy use." It was "made" in the Garden of Eden, written on the hearts of man, before it was "written" down on Mount Sinai. The Sabbath was "made" for "man," not just Jews. The Jews and the stranger are to observe this day (Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 56:6)

The Sabbath shall also be observe by all flesh, not just the Jews, in the new earth and new heaven. Isaiah 66:22, 23

And don't forget Luke was a Gentile who kept the Sabbath.
---Steveng on 2/21/14


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"Well the word Sabbath is not found anywhere else in Genesis..."-Samuelbb7 on 2/21/14
This is misleading. The word "sabbath" is not found in Genesis at all.
It is not until Exo 16:23 that we see "Sabbath."
in Gen 2:2 we see God "rested", "shabath" in the Hebrew. This word is not translated anywhere as "Sabbath"
As for the 7 days of Noah, did Abraham have an 8 day week because he waited eight days to circumcise Isaac?
Did Joseph keep a 3 day week because he told the prisoners the future in 3 days?
Probably not, but some cultures did have 10 or 20 day cycles.
Yet we do see Jacob fulfilling a "week" of seven years.
---micha9344 on 2/21/14


Well the word Sabbath is not found anywhere else in Genesis but the term seven days is.

Gen 8:10

And he stayed yet other seven days, and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark,

There is evidence they knew about the week period. But we must not forget Moses stated in Exodus 20 that the reason for the Sabbath came in Genesis with creation.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/21/14


The only evidence I have is in the book of Genesis when we are told that God rested the seventh day. Whether the earliest humans He then created did that I know not.

I feel that God certainly set a precendent by showing us that after six days of work we need one day of rest and those for whom it is not possible to take a certain day off should try to take a different one instead. Six work, one rest.
---Rita_H on 2/20/14


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