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Christ Shed His Blood

Is the saying "Christ shed His blood for us" literal or figurative? Seeing that He died of suffocation and was already dead when He was stabbed!

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 ---1st_cliff on 2/25/14
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But the Old Testament is written for the Church also.

But the Church is Israel today. Because when we are Born Again we become part of Israel. Ephesians.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/17/14

Church can be composed of Israel. But, being a church does not make Israel. Acts 13:17-42. Etc,etc,etc.

Can GOD not do with his previous wife as he desires? Are we not all GODs to do with as he desires?
We should not devise to climb in another way. But, we can all appeal, honor and believe on his grace, blessings and righteousness.
For foundational work one needs to list all the prophets testifying for the precept you've stated. After all...they laid the original foundation. We wouldn't dare go against a prophet....would we?
---Trav on 9/17/14


"all the passages from the Old Testament are talking about Israel. They are but an example to us under the New Covenant." Luke on 9/17/14

While passages in the OT do talk about Israel, That's not all.
"Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." Jn 5:39
"beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself." Lk 24:27

"...but an example"??

this testifying,just an example?

"lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and ..." Dt 11:18
---chria9396 on 9/17/14


But the Church is Israel today. Because when we are Born Again we become part of Israel. Ephesians.

---Samuelbb7 on 9/17/14


Not true Samuel, Gentiles do not become part of Israel. The New Creature is NEITHER, stated in more than one place. AND no new testament writer has ever said the church is being brought back to the Land promised in the OT. What the NT writers do say however is that the Covenant made with ABRAHAM is the same everlasting covenant to all families of the earth. Even James who quoted OT never says one word about Jacob....but he does Abraham and Abraham's FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/14


But the Old Testament is written for the Church also.

Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Also read 2 Timothy 3. Now we have to divide it correctly to understand what is past and what is present.

2Timothy 2:15

But everyone needs to remember the Apostles taught out of the Old Testament alone until the New Testament was written.

Some Scholars believe that over half of the New is quotes or paraphrases from the Old.

So yes the words of the prophets are for us.

But the Church is Israel today. Because when we are Born Again we become part of Israel. Ephesians.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/17/14


Trav,
..... It does not matter how many prophets you put out, or what they said, Israel to this day is still lost.
So all the passages from the Old Testament are talking about Israel. They are but an example to us under the New Covenant.
---Luke on 9/17/14

Yeah, the example in print, is you've lost them. GOD has and will find them. The prophets give these "Lost Sheep" way-points and proof that all is not hopeless,or "lost".
The point you can take home with you. I'll look for sheep, you search for, luke.

Amo_9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
---Trav on 9/17/14




//Search this first. Judah does not ever equal the entire house/nation of Israel.
Northern divorced House of Israel who Christ came for Matt 10:24 accepted. Judah did not for the most part....even today.//

Trav,
You are still talking about Israel. Northern, southern, Eastern, Western, it matters not what tribe you mention, They are all lost. They need faith in Jesus Christ. It does not matter how many prophets you put out, or what they said, Israel to this day is still lost. So all the passages from the Old Testament are talking about Israel. They are but an example to us under the New Covenant.
---Luke on 9/17/14


Isaiah 14 concerning the Gentiles......this is during the Kingdom reign re Gentiles, as we see in Zechariah 12-14...the nations round about. But Gentiles TODAY who are saved, as with individual Jews, meaning any and those who come from all 12 tribes, are part of the CHURCH, the Body of Christ, a NEW creature! neither Jew or Gentile.

The problem is, if you don't understand this, you will never rightly divide the Word of Truth.......and only see OT promises having nothing to do with the CHURCH that was hidden and kept a secret until today. Colossians 1:24-27 explain it. The Church is an entirely different entity where our citizenship is in Heaven, as we too look for a city who's builder and maker is God, The heavenly Jerusalem.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/14


Isaiah 14:1 For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers( Gentiles) shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.


Now this is a FUTURE promise to the NATION of Israel, all 12 tribes, also referred to as Jacob. So now we have the HOUSE of Jacob, meaning all 12 tribes. There is no division here. God has promised to restore the Kingdom promised in the OT to Israel the NATION. This is NOT the Gospel being preached today to individuals. Individuals are being saved today out of all families of the earth, and has nothing to do with LAND or that everlasting Covenant given to Jacob.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/14


Trav let's start with 1Chronicles 16:17-22 and see what God is saying.

1Chronicles 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,18 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance,19 When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it.

20 And when they went ( WENT IS PAST TENSE) from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people,21 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

So Who KILLED the prophets? And what about the land... Abraham looked for a city who's builder and maker is God...the Heavenly Jerusalem, not earthly Canaan .
---kathr4453 on 9/16/14


1 Thessalonians 2:14-17

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us, and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost..

Sounds like this ^^^ verse 16 is the present YOU Trav

Gentile here means heathen, those not Jew or Israel by your definition that YOU exclude from the Gospel.
---kathr453 on 9/16/14




"IN ISAAC" will they seed be called. Isaac was not through the LAW but through Faith. So just let Trav live in his fantasy world.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/14

GODs stated plan is fact too, your confusion.
Thank you and a blessing on you, you keep making each point exactly, to any sheep searching.
1Ch_16:17 hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
Isa_45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Eze_16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.
Hmmmm Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31.
---Trav on 9/16/14


Hi, Cliff (c: I think an expression can be literal, in some cases, but also can be figurative in other uses. Possibly there are both uses of the "blood of Christ". And God can give us understanding.

"without the shedding of blood there can be no remission" > this is a literal thing, I consider > in Hebrews 9:11-28 which also says "with His own blood He entered".

You said, "I could never understand why God let His Son suffer in that manner, it added nothing to our salvation, only His death was required as a ransom for sin!"

You might consider Hebrews 4:15. On the cross, and during the suffering before being nailed, Jesus was multi-tasking, including being our example > Ephesians 5:2.
---com7fy8 on 9/16/14


"IN ISAAC" will they seed be called. Isaac was not through the LAW but through Faith. So just let Trav live in his fantasy world.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Romans 4: 13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law,(meaning Jacob's descendants) but through the righteousness of faith. (The FAITH of ABRAHAM, ...while he was NOT CIRCUMCISED)

14For if they which are of the law AKA the (circumcised) be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
---kathr4453 on 9/16/14


Trav,
We are not Jews, and we are not in the Old Testament times.
All the passages you give are for Israel, who is still lost.
---Luke on 9/16/14

Search this first. Judah does not ever equal the entire house/nation of Israel.
Northern divorced House of Israel who Christ came for Matt 10:24 accepted. Judah did not for the most part....even today.
You wouldn't have a Bible if Christ or Apostles had failed in Matt 10:6/15:24.

So far, you reject any prophetic scripture that doesn't appeal personally.
Thereby you reject all prophets, and by this alone, any who witnessed or fulfilled these given by GOD.
n't imagine you willingly would go against the prophets...perhaps, you just haven't thought it out.
---Trav on 9/16/14


Luke, Trav cannot prove he is a Jew either, that is exclusively coming form the tribe of Judah or Benjamin. Not today anyway. And anyone coming from the northern 10 tribes are not considered JEWS but Gentiles in Trav theory. If perhaps LIFE itself began, or re-began with the 12 tribes, and not the 3 sons of Noah, he may be able to prove his theory, BUT we see only one son through Noah is the great great great and on ..ancestor of those who descended physically through Abraham ISAAC and then Jacob.

So those other two sons of Noah with their genealogy are what???? Martians I guess.

Whys did the NT tell us to say away from endless genealogy's??? listing with fables etc. ANS: BECAUSE it as NOTHING to do with salvation.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/14


Trav,
We are not Jews, and we are not in the Old Testament times. All the passages you give are for Israel, who is still lost. And will not be redeemed until their hearts are changed by God, and they repent. Maybe you are a Jew, then those passages you keep putting out belong to you. Is your heart changed? Have you repented of your sins? If you have then you are a Jewish believer.
---Luke on 9/16/14


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1st Cliff, the answer to your posted question can be found in Hebrews 9 for starters.

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

So since Jesus is called the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, go back and read all of Hebrews and Leviticus. I think you will find that the lamb also had to be spotless, without blemish etc.

So your question shows you miss the entire point.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/14


Why not just accept the accounts found in the Bible?
---Luke on 3/30/14

As witnessed. It is hard for many to accept...even.... from prophets of GOD.

Eze 16:8 .....yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, thou becamest mine.
Eze_16:9 Then washed I thee with water, yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
Eze 16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.
Eze 16:62 I will establish my covenant with thee, and thou shalt know that I am the LORD:
Eze 39:29....: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
---Trav on 9/15/14


Isa 52:14 As many were astonied at thee, his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
Isa 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
Psa 22:1-8 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not, and in the night season, and am not silent...But I am a worm, and no man, a reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
---micha9344 on 4/24/14


JESUS CHRIST is our High Priest now.


Hebrews 4:14,15

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

By the way whipping, nails, and thorns all cause bleeding.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/23/14


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Cont.Cross essential, all had to be fulfilled
""he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."" Phil2:8
""who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross""Heb 12:2
""Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross""Col 2:1
""made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself.""Col 1:20
""that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"" Eph 2:16
""hast redeemed us to God by thy blood" rev 5:9
---chria9396 on 4/23/14


""Christ shed His blood for us" literal or figurative?"
Or both...When did He begin to bleed? With crown of thorns and beatings? Was the (lit) blood that was shed before being nailed to the cross effective, or only that while on the cross, whether while dying or the blood that flowed when he was pierced with the spear? Events leading to the physical crucifixion, specifically Jesus obedience and yielding His will to the Fathers, was that a sort of crucifixion before the literal? Blood was shed before and during.
All He has done and will do cannot be anything but effective
Considering the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
---chria9396 on 4/23/14


"Only the death of Jesus was necessary to atone for Adam's sin."-1st_cliff on 3/20/14
Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Heb 9:12-14
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
---micha9344 on 4/22/14


Cliff, with the question you asked, you want to change the language that was used in the Bible and want to use your own language when you state Jesus suffocated, and was already dead when He was stab. You could not possibly know that unless Jesus told you in person. Jesus Second Coming has not occurred yet. Why not just accept the accounts found in the Bible?
---Luke on 3/30/14


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Cliff, the point is that Jesus laid down His own life for His sheep.
---Luke on 3/12/14

Psa_79:13 So we thy people and sheep of thy pasture will give thee thanks for ever: we will shew forth thy praise to all generations.

Eze_34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
1Pe_2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray, but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
---Trav on 3/26/14


1st cliff, let us examine some scripture:
Heb9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Do you realize that this scripture alone refutes everything you said?

Note:
1Pet1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers,
1Pet1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
-1st cliff, do you realize that it was the shed blood of Christ that redeemed us?

1John1:7 ..., and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1st cliff, do you realize that Christ's blood cleanses us from sin?
---trey on 3/22/14


//The beating and whipping had nothing to do with salvation.
What does the 3 hrs. of darkness have to do with anything?//

It had a lot to do with what had been prophesized about in the Scriptures. His suffering, the spearing on Jesus, the lots for his clothes, even Jesus began to show His disciples He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed. All those thing were important for them to come to pass, really for the salvation of many. Everything that was prophesized by the prophets, had to happen. God spoke to the prophets what was going to happen to Jesus.
---Luke on 3/22/14


Tray, You're making more of this then necessary.
Only the death of Jesus was necessary to atone for Adam's sin.
The beating and whipping had nothing to do with salvation.
What does the 3 hrs. of darkness have to do with anything?
---1st_cliff on 3/20/14


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Ac4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Ac4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

The word "determined" means limited in advance. Meaning man would have done far more to Christ if God had not limited it in advance.

What many fail to see is that justice had to be served. The sins of the elect world had to be paid for. It is my belief that what Christ suffered in those 3 hours of darkness at the hand of the Father was even greater than what man did to him. In the end God was satisfied with the price paid by his Son.
---trey on 3/13/14


//You're making it appear like suicide!
The Father "authorized" Him to concede to their demands, He could have resisted successfully!(with the help of many angels)//

Cliff, suicide is a selfish act, which is sin. Jesus did not sin. Jesus did not commit suicide. He died for our sins. Just like soldiers die for the freedom of others. It is a sacrifice. We are told that Christ was foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world 1 Peter 1:20. It was an eternal covenant between the Godhead. Paul speaks of "the eternal purpose" which was purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord Eph. 3:11.
And, the writer of Hebrews refers to the "blood of an eternal covenant" Heb. 13:20.
---Luke on 3/14/14


"The first time Christ shed His blood was as an 8 day old infant at His Circumcision.
Since He shed His blood even as a baby in obedience to the Father, I should that that was sufficient to save the cosmos."

Wow!! No wonder Jude said, "It was needful for him to exhort believers to earnestly contend for the faith."

Heresy, apostasy, Gnosticism and false gospels are not limited to the 1st century or people like MarkV.

Does someone really believe they are covered/saved from sin by the circumcision of a baby?

What Biblical prophecy of the promised Redeemer does this fulfill?

What obedience does a baby exercise?
---Elder on 3/12/14


Since He shed His blood even as a baby in obedience to the Father, I should that that was sufficient to save the cosmos.

Glory to jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 3/11/14

Paul calls it the blood of the Cross, not the blood of the dart.
---kathr4453 on 3/12/14


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Luke, **He laid down His life** Not really, they took it from Him violently! executed Him.
You're making it appear like suicide!
The Father "authorized" Him to concede to their demands, He could have resisted successfully!(with the help of many angels)
---1st_cliff on 3/12/14


Cliff, the point is that Jesus laid down His own life for His sheep.
---Luke on 3/12/14


Luke, **I have power to lay it down** should have been translated "authority"!
This He receiver from His Father!
---1st_cliff on 3/11/14


The first time Christ shed His blood was as an 8 day old infant at His Circumcision.

Since He shed His blood even as a baby in obedience to the Father, I should that that was sufficient to save the cosmos.

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/11/14


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//Jesus didn't really want to go through the dying part of His ministry asking the Father "If this cup could pass....not my will but Yours..."//

Cliff, Jesus really took His own life.

"Therefore My Father loves Me, 'because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father"
John 10:17,18.
---Luke on 3/11/14


cliff, I totally agree but there was only 1 Son of God and He willingly laid His life down for us...the whole world. He could have refused but He was doing the will of His Father.
---shira4368 on 3/7/14


Shira, Jesus didn't really want to go through the dying part of His ministry asking the Father "If this cup could pass....not my will but Yours..."
No one would volunteer to take His place , but obedience to the Father was paramount in His life, so He suffered through it and His Father rewarded Him. Giving Him a name above any other name as King of Kings and ruler of the Kingdom!
---1st_cliff on 3/7/14


cliff I agree sort of with you. anyone can die but how many would suffer a horrible death for someone as lowly as me, you and the whole world. to me it is significant and Isaiah 53 gives a whole chapter to the suffering Christ would endure for us.
---shira4368 on 3/6/14


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Shira, I could never understand why God let His Son suffer in that manner, it added nothing to our salvation, only His death was required as a ransom for sin!
---1st_cliff on 3/6/14


\\ Catholics and similar religians, especially in other countires, kiss or rub the cross thinking it would bring them more spiritual power.\\

It's not because of the teaching of the Church, BUT IN SPITE OF IT.

I've seen people on these blog think that if they leave a copy of the Bible open, it will drive the devil away. Will it?

I have a wooden budded cross (Olive wood from Jerusalem) with an inset Orthodox 3 bar cross. When I put it on, I kiss it and remember the Savior's words, "If any will come after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/14


shira4368: "wearing a cross is a good conversation starter. A tool to witness."

Ones deeds should speak louder that a stone cross hanging around your neck. What would be the talking point when a goth wears one?

shira4368: "I dont know anyone who worships a pendant or ring."

Don''t get around much do you. Catholics and similar religians, especially in other countires, kiss or rub the cross thinking it would bring them more spiritual power.
---Steveng on 3/5/14


cliff, people need to know how Christ suffered for us who are not worth anything. we are dirty disgusting sinners and Christ did shed His blood for us. He suffered things that are unspeakable. I have heard sermons several times in depth of the suffering of Christ. the thing is, He chose to die for us. He could have called 10,000 angels to rescue Him. I am more thankful than words can ever say.
---shira4368 on 3/5/14


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Shira, There are a lot of people who believe that the end justifies the means!
---1st_cliff on 3/5/14


wearing a cross is a good conversation starter. A tool to witness. I dont know anyone who worships a pendant or ring.
---shira4368 on 3/4/14


The contention you made that there is photos of Jesus out there that are some times very hideous is correct. I for one do not agree anyone should make photos that represent Jesus. That goes against the Second Commandment. If someone sees a movie where a man plays the part of Jesus, the man's face stays in the viewers mind almost forever, not the real Jesus. Also, no one can show Jesus in all His glory. There has never been anyone like Him.
But that was not the question asked concerning "Christ shedding His blood for us." You even mentioned he died of suffocation, when you really do not know.
---Luke on 3/3/14


Agreed 1st Cliff. I think that some wear one to create a talking point (which is not how it works these days since pop stars started wearing huge, ugly, bejewelled ones and non-believers wear them upside down to insult etc.). I think that many now wear a fish (ixthus) symbol instead - still for the purpose of creating a talking point.
---Rita_H on 3/3/14


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Why do christian need a worldly object to reminded them they are christian? Why do christians need an inanimate object to show the world they are christian? Doesn't your deeds show more impact as a christian than a cross made of stone, plastic or wood?

Are you wearing your cross as a fashion statement? Even the heathen wears crosses. Many of the gothic teens in my area wear the crosses either right end up or up side down. They have sewn it into their clothing and attached it to their shoes.
---Steveng on 3/2/14


1st Cliff Thank you,I understand now what you mean but since Christ chose to suffer for human kind I just don't see everything concerning His life and sacrifice in the same light you mentioned. Whatever Christ did for humankind or suffered for us should be held in esteem not because of what they are but because of who He is and what He did for us. I reverence Him not the things done to Him but the whole package is part of God's plan for Him and I respect the wisdom of God and honor Christs obedience to the Father.
---Darlene_1 on 3/2/14


Rita, True, but it's my contention that if you need to wear a "reminder" then it's not a natural part of your life! There are no photos or posed drawings, only artist's conception of what Christ may have looked like and some are outright hideous!
---1st_cliff on 3/2/14


I feel that many Christians wear a cross on a chain to remind themselves of Christ's SACRIFICE (not his MURDER). He GAVE His life for us, it was not TAKEN from Him.

The difference between HIS death and that of a person being murdered by stabbing, hanging or any other method is that those people did not die sacrificially. No person would wish to be reminded of a loved ones murder by wearing a symbol of the method used.

I know Christians who DO wear crosses and Christians who DON'T and understand the reasonings of both groups but feel that it is individual choice.

1st Cliff - Christ shed plenty of blood from the whipping, scourging etc. before He died. I'd say that the saying is literal.
---Rita_H on 3/2/14


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Cliff, it is fare to say that many passages in the Bible are metaphors, but you have to be careful which one are and which ones are not. Context first. Sure the language Christians use is some times outrageous, but the meaning of what they say is still true. In the case of Jesus shedding His blood for us, it is literal. He did shed His blood for us. He also died for us, He also took our sins. Now, can anyone take our sins? He sure did. So you have to be careful with the context. Were we literally washed in His blood? No. We were cleanness of all sins by the blood He shed for us through His death. Also, I do not believe anyone thinks a literal cross will save anyone. The cross is only symbolic of the death of Christ.
---Luke on 3/2/14


Darlene, I guess it's all a matter of perception.
If your mother was murdered by a butcher knife, would you wear a replica around your neck ?, or you father was murdered (hanged) by a lynch mob, would you have a rope (noose) hanging on your living room wall?
Your best friend was crucified would you reverence the instrument of torture?
This is what's become an "ism"!
---1st_cliff on 3/1/14


1st Cliff Please pardon my slowness to catch on but I'm not sure what you mean about the details becoming an "ism". I'm sorry but I certainly don't believe anything concerning my Lords sacrifice for me is being "grisly details". They are simply a fact of Christ's life which I take as straightforward as I do the things which happen in the lives of those around me,myself,and fellow Christians. I look at all that Christ went through through as precious and wonderful. How can we find anything He went through as grisly when it was all for the salvation of human kind. It was all beautiful considering the sacrifice Christ made going through it. Sorry but I just don't see anything Christ did as anything but holy. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 3/1/14


Hebrews 9:14
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

This is literal. Have you personally literally experienced this moment in your life? It's a moment you will never forget.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/14


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Darlene, Dying is never easy,but Christ did die so we could live. Sufficient to say He gave His life (was murdered) without all the grisly details becoming an "ism"
---1st_cliff on 3/1/14


It doesn't matter what killed Christ for He surely shed blood from the wounds on His hands and feet/ankles and the wound inflicted in His side. He also bled from the thorn crown put on His head before He even got to the cross and the stripes from the whip on His back,yes He shed blood,no doubt at all,no matter when or the method that caused it His blood ran from His body for us.
---Darlene_1 on 3/1/14


Luke, Why the question?,because metaphors become literal in too many cases!
If you were literally "washed in the blood" you would stink!
The blood simply means "life"
too much emphasis is put on the word,it's the "meaning" that's important not the word!
Icons of Jesus bleeding is morbid!
---1st_cliff on 3/1/14


Cliff, why would you asked such a question? You argued His bleeding, yet we know Jesus shed his blood for us, because He bled when He was crucified on our behalf. What He died of no one knows. He could have bled to death, died of suffocation, died of His wounds, what we do know is that He died. Second, He did not commit suicide, that is an act by an individual thinking of himself only, Jesus gave His life for our sins, an act that did not benefit Him, but everyone else. Jesus was without sin.
---Luke on 3/1/14


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luke, You're making up a story, I said nothing about not bleeding or diminishing the merit of His sacrifice!
I mentioned the beatings etc. you're slinging mud!
---1st_cliff on 2/28/14


cliff, with your question you are trying to bring doubt to the sacrifice that Jesus went through for our sins. You ask if He really actually bled. If the same thing happen to you, do you think you would not bleed one drop of Blood? As if no blood was ever found on Him you suggest. Suggesting also that He died of suffocation not of the brutal beating with wipes and stakes driven through Him. In other words suggesting it was not a real sacrifice, and it is all a story many have build up. Why you think of such questions if you are a Christian is really the question.
---Luke on 2/28/14


Rod4Him: "Where are your sources for this outside the Bible information?"

Does it not say to use the bible as its own reference? Besides, the Holy Spirit guides a person to the truth without concordances, christian reference books, the plethors of bible interpretations written by so-called christian authores to sell their secrets. Man shall not profit from the word of God.
---Steveng on 2/27/14


Atetunji, Hands nailed above the head, one could not bleed to death from that or thorn pricks in the scalp!nor nails in the foot (no arteries there!) Bones were usually broken to hasten death but in Jesus' case He was already dead so no bones were broken, the sword in the abdomen obviously punctured the bladder so water was mixed with blood!This was done to insure the fact that He was indeed dead!
Suspended on nails above the head for 3 hours in poor condition will suffocate you!
---1st_cliff on 2/27/14


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Is it not true after your blood is gone from the body, then water ? there are (in the bible) many references to one dying but only one who shed blood. the amazing part is Christ didn't have to die for you and me but He did. Some say it like it's an everyday occurrence. Words can't describe how thankful I am for my salvation. I don't take it for granted.
---shira4368 on 2/27/14


//One must understand the language - in Jesus' time - in order to undertand its meaning. To shed one's blood simply means he died.//

Where are your sources for this outside the Bible information?
---Rod4Him on 2/27/14


1st_cliff,//Seeing that He died of suffocation//
From where did you get this wrong information?
Crown of thorns was placed on His head >> leads to bleeding.
Nails were driven into His hands and feet >> leads to bleeding.
Hours later, a spear was struck into His side also >> bleeding also.
No account of suffocation is in my Bible.
---Adetunji on 2/27/14


Whether Jesus was decapitated,hanged,stabbed or any other method of execution , the facts would remain that dieing on our behalf was accomplished!
Crucifixion was the method of the time,but the cross symbol has become an idol,kissed,reverenced worn as an ornament and used to ward off evil spirits!
---1st_cliff on 2/26/14


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Cliff, Jesus Christ laid down his life after he fulfilled the scriptures and his portion of the Everlasting Covenant. I do not believe that he resisted crucifixion, but man could not kill the Son of God until Christ had fulfilled all that he was to do. If you knew scripture you should have pointed to Acts 7:52.
---trey on 2/26/14


Trey, **Man cannot kill the Son of God. Christ laid down His life** Causing one's own death is suicide! By not resisting He laid it down!Quite different!
The other thieves were not whipped half to death, so of course they lived longer!
Shedding one's blood is synonomus with dieing !
---1st_cliff on 2/26/14


One must understand the language - in Jesus' time - in order to undertand its meaning. To shed one's blood simply means he died.

Even today we have such phrases as "kick the bucket," "moved on," "bit the dust," "gave up the ghost," "left us," "departed," "yielding up her spirit," "made his exit," "gone home," "left to go and be with Christ," "left this world," "gone to the happy hunting ground in the sky," "ceased to be," "gone to meet his maker," "his spirit has flown the coop," "moved on to the otherside," "resting in peace," "surfing the stars," etc.
---Steveng on 2/25/14


First of all, let us read and comprehend the words of Christ:
John10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Man cannot kill the Son of God. Christ laid down his life.

Second point:
Mt27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

That does not sound like a man dying of suffocation.
---trey on 2/25/14


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What makes you think He died of suffocation?
Why were the others still alive if it were by suffocation?
If suffocation, how is it He was able to speak just before then?
You think it was the spear that is referenced to "shed blood"?
Can you fathom how much blood was shed before He was nailed to the cross?
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood...
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood...
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross,
Heb 13:12 ...that he might sanctify the people with his own blood...
Rev 7:14 ...and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Exo 12:13
---micha9344 on 2/25/14


\\Give scriptural reference for EVEN THINKING that Jesus was already dead (and anything else you assert to be true).\\

John 19:31-33.

I recently saw a TV show about the scientific and medical aspects of crucifixion. There were many physical injuries that could lead to such a death. Exsanguination is only one.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/25/14


Give scriptural reference for EVEN THINKING that Jesus was already dead (and anything else you assert to be true). The blood He shed causes "purification for sin" (the FLESH). Hebrews chapter 1 explains this clearly.

The WATER that flowed from His side was representative of the "LIVING WATER" that we need to have in order to learn from His divine eternal spirit so that we will do things right and have a clear conscience every day (Hebrews 9:14 explains this "purification" of the CONSCIENCE).

His blood already did it's work 2,000 years ago, so now all we need do is to learn well from His eternal Spirit (the "h" became a CAPITAL H at the first mention of Jesus by name....in Matthew).
---faithforfaith on 2/25/14


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