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KJV New Testament

When and where, except as a title page, does the KJV use the expression "new testament"?

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 ---Cluny on 3/4/14
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Cluny, Physical death is the only kind we witness.
A person can be spiritually dead while still living!
You can "opt out" of a relationship with God, ending your spiritual connection, but this too is a deliberate choice (brain function)
Isn't purposely ending your relationship with God, "spiritual death"? (not something we can see with our eyes)or vice versa!
Do you have an example of someone who is/was spiritually alive when physically dead?
---1st_cliff on 3/20/14


BTW, perhaps the discussion should be clarified.

I was under the impression you were talking about minimum cognitive function from a dementing disease while the person still has physical life affecting his spirit..

This low brain activity does NOT keep God and the spirit of the individual from continuing a relationship.

When the late Archpriest Peter Gillquist slipped into a coma a few days before he died, his family was gathered around his deathbed, praying for him, with him, and continuing to remind him, "Finish the race" (a theme of one of his sermons).

I'm not talking about physical death here. Were you?

Maybe that is the misunderstanding.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/20/14


Cluny are you trying to say after the brain ceases to function there is still life?

That is not true by any means.

If God dealt with people after death then there would be a second chance to get saved when dead.

Your concrete has too much water and is too soft. It will never set properly.
---Elder on 3/20/14


\\ Pure conjecture! When your brain ceases to function, you are either written on the book or not!\\

What were you saying about pure conjecture?

You have no idea just HOW God dealt with your parents' spirits in the last stages of their disease, and you can't offer any proof that He told you.

What you are saying is approaching gnosticism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/20/14


Cluny, Your "concrete example" deals only with "specific" cases chosen by God in advance, it cannot be construed to be the norm in every case! Pure conjecture! When your brain ceases to function, you are either written on the book or not! With your theory there's no point to "the book of life"!
---1st_cliff on 3/20/14




\\Cluny, You're right ,I don't "grasp" that...too abstract for me!
---1st_cliff on 3/18/14\\

Even though I gave a concrete example?

Your principal error is assuming that the spiritual and cognitive powers are linked, if not the same.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/19/14


Cluny, You're right ,I don't "grasp" that...too abstract for me!
---1st_cliff on 3/18/14


\\From this you are speculating that everyone who claims spirituality receives such a visit? \\

Wrong!

I'm saying that contrary to your false notion, full cognitive function is not necessary for God to deal with us on a spiritual level, or vice versa.

But I don't expect you to be able to grasp this.

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/18/14


Cluny, Your so-called proof is very vague, IE
The visitation in Luke 1 was a "specific" incident for a "specific" purpose. Birth of John and Jesus!
From this you are speculating that everyone who claims spirituality receives such a visit?
That's pushing it, don't you think!
---1st_cliff on 3/18/14


Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbour as thyself.
-heart-emotionally
-soul-spiritually
-strength-physically
-mind-mentally
This is our action towards Him.
But--
1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
He loved us while we were yet any of those things, for He knew us as we were knit in our mother's womb.
We are not the one's who establish the connection, we just use what is provided.
If we don't or can't use it, does that mean the connection is not there?
Can we, as humans, so sure that God is not connecting with a person just because we can't?
---micha9344 on 3/18/14




Since as quoted the Bible says our minds are to be involved with our relationship with GOD that should settle it.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/18/14


\\So you admit you have no proof, \\

I've given proof from the Bible that God can start a relationship with a person before the brain is fully developed.

But you have no proof of your opinion.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/17/14


I would have thought with all the knowledge that Cluny has he would know about Matt 26:28, Luke 22:20, I Cor 11:25, II Cor 3:6, Heb 9:15.

Has another of our hero's bit the dust?
---Elder on 3/17/14


Cluny,**There's no point in continuing this debate**
So you admit you have no proof, of course there's no point in continuing.
If you can't win....opt out!
---1st_cliff on 3/17/14


\\What mechanism do you postulate empowers "spiritual" communication? \\

God is the one who takes the initiative, as I keep on saying.

There's no point in continuing this debate.

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/17/14


Mar 12:30

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.


Rom 12:2

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So yes our relationship with GOD does involve our mind. But not alone.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/17/14


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Cluny: "Our relationship with God is SPIRITUAL, not mental or intellectual"

I tend to believe this in YOUR case - but not necessarily the rest of us. Your mental abilities are somewhat suspect. How can one worship without a mind? What mechanism do you postulate empowers "spiritual" communication? Magic?

I believe that God communicates with man through the brain nerves. Thus the dead can't think or serve God.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee?

---jerry6593 on 3/17/14


Cluny, **Our relationship with God is SPIRITUAL, not mental or intellectual and is independent of our cognitive abilities**
You make a brash statement like this without a shred of evidence! You're simply stating what you "believe" !
I, on the other hand, gave personal experience that millions of others have also witnessed!
---1st_cliff on 3/16/14


\\What is your "proof" of this statement?\\

You have no proof of the opposite, simply your observation of how Alzheimer's affected your mother.

Our relationship with God is SPIRITUAL, not mental or intellectual, and is independent of our cognitive abilities. You seem to think they are linked.

You have no way of knowing that your mother and God did not continue a spiritual relationship.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/16/14


Cluny, **Therefore the spiritual relationship can continue long after cognitive function begins to decay**
What is your "proof" of this statement?
Who's cognitive function began to decay yet was still spiritual? ( not anecdotal)
---1st_cliff on 3/15/14


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\\Cluny, So by illustration I have given you reason for my "belief". what reason , by illustration do you have for believing that spiritual is NOT a brain function!
---1st_cliff on 3/15/14\\

Faith is a spiritual relationship in which God takes the initiative. The Bible teaches this.

It can begin before the brain (and thus cognitive abilities) are fully formed. Again, there are Bible verses to prove my point, The best NT example will be the Visitation in Luke 1.

Therefore the spiritual relationship can continue after cognitive function begins to decay.

And you did not give an illustration, but mere anecdotal evidence.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/15/14


Cluny, So by illustration I have given you reason for my "belief". what reason , by illustration do you have for believing that spiritual is NOT a brain function!
---1st_cliff on 3/15/14


\\Cluny, When you're asking for "proof" of something that's un provable you're really talking "belief".
You have no "proof" that spiritual is not a brain function!\\

And you have no proof that the spiritual part of man IS really a brain function.

So by your own standards, YOU are really talking belief, too.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/15/14


John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit...
2Co 6:16 ...for ye are the temple of the living God, as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them], and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
\Nothing is observed to leave the body at death except "breath".../-1st_cliff on 3/14/14
What makes you think you should be able to see a spirit leave the body?
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen...
Heb 11:3 ...so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
---micha9344 on 3/14/14


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Cluny, When you're asking for "proof" of something that's un provable you're really talking "belief".
You have no "proof" that spiritual is not a brain function!
Doctors rely on "proof" that when brain function ceases the person is declared dead! Nothing is observed to leave the body at death except "breath" (pneuma/ruach)
translated spirit in English!
A pneumatic hammer is air driven (air-spirit)does that make the device "spiritual"??
---1st_cliff on 3/14/14


1 Corinthians 7:14 "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean, but now are they holy."
The unbeliever is not conscious of the spiritual life of the believer, yet, is not brain dead and neither is lacking in having a relationship with the spiritual.
---Nana on 3/13/14


\\Cluny, What you have is a "gut feeling" what I have told is reality!\\

I've asked you for PROOF that what you have said is reality.

You offered nothing but anecdotal evidence.

That is insufficient.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/13/14


we know when the body dies, we go somewhere. God made us like we are and He does not expect something supernatural from me except to be born again. that is supernatural. cliff if your mom was saved, she is in heaven now, at least her spirit is.
---shira4368 on 3/13/14


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Cluny, What you have is a "gut feeling" what I have told is reality!
Gut feeling is not fact but mere emotion!
Do you know anything about your brain functions?
Animals have brains but they are pre-programmed by God to act on instinct.
Man, on the other hand, has the capacity to think and reason and absorb spirituality and commune with God! (but only with a proper functioning brain!)
I'm waiting for your facts!
---1st_cliff on 3/13/14


What proof have you offered that for a spiritual relationship with God to exist, full cognition and mental faculties must be there?

You have merely assumed it to be true.

Anecdotal evidence, such as that about your parents, is meaningless in this context.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/13/14


Cluny, Since you poo-pooed my observations, and conclusions perhaps you can enlighten us with your "proven" facts!
---1st_cliff on 3/12/14


Sorry for being away.

Dear Cluny thank you for explaining the difference. I appreciate that you take the time to show the difference and explain them.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/12/14


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\\I merely pointed out that there was an absence of anything spiritual!\\

Did you?

\If there was anything spiritual left it would have revealed itself!\\

Would it?

\\Conclusion, Anything spiritual that remains in the body dies when the brain function ceases!\\

False conclusion to your syllogism, because it's based on a major premise that has not really been proven.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/12/14


Cluny, You're trying to steer the conversation into another area.
I merely pointed out that there was an absence of anything spiritual!
If there was anything spiritual left it would have revealed itself!
Conclusion, Anything spiritual that remains in the body dies when the brain function ceases!
It is then, at resurrection, God renews spirituality or conscious awareness in a new body! Nothing, except what's in God's memory,(called "written in the book of life"") survives the body at death!
---1st_cliff on 3/12/14


\\When mom didn't recognize me and I looked into her eyes there was no fully conscious and aware spook inside looking back at \\

And of course, God Himself revealed to you that He was having nothing to do with your mother on the spiritual level, nor was she having anything to do with Him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/11/14


Cluny,I didn't say anything was "impossible" for God to do!
I know I witnessed first hand what went down!
When mom didn't recognize me and I looked into her eyes there was no fully conscious and aware spook inside looking back at me!
It's like back in the day, people who were hopelessly insane due to a brain malfunction were thought to be demon possessed and witches were drowned by over zealous Christians!
This is 2014,not 1614 !
---1st_cliff on 3/11/14


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1st_cliff: "If spiritual is outside the realm of physical and mental , why is a person with dementia or Alzheimer's no longer "spiritual".?"

How do you absolutely, positively know for sure? When the brain dies, the spirit lives on even though the mind cannot connect with the spirit. But don't worry about today, God is full of mercy and will judge them accordingly.
---Steveng on 3/10/14


\\The "spiritual" died with the destruction of the brain long before the body!\\

Did it?

\\Therefore the spiritual is part of a brain function!
---1st_cliff on 3/10/14\\

Non sequituur.

Are you saying it was impossible for God to have a relationship with them, due to the dissolution of their mental faculties?

The God I believe in is bigger than that. I don't know about the entity you worship.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/11/14


Cluny, My mother and father both died with Alzheimer's , my mom was a devout Christian, As the disease began destroying their brain there was no indication of anything spiritual. No memory of God, bible ,friends etc.
The "spiritual" died with the destruction of the brain long before the body!
Therefore the spiritual is part of a brain function!
---1st_cliff on 3/10/14


\\Cluny, Can you answer this one question?
If spiritual is outside the realm of physical and mental , why is a person with dementia or Alzheimer's no longer "spiritual".?
---1st_cliff on 3/10/14\\

I never said such a person was not spiritual.

Why are you saying s/he isn't?

I don't know how God deals with a person with dementia.

Do you think that YOU do?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/10/14


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Cluny, Can you answer this one question?
If spiritual is outside the realm of physical and mental , why is a person with dementia or Alzheimer's no longer "spiritual".?
---1st_cliff on 3/10/14


I once heard a lecturer for a new age mind control thing who admitted he used psychological, mental, and spiritual as synonyms.

They clearly are not, but this is how he confused his audience.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/10/14


If "spiritual" is "mental" and "mental" comes from the brain, What does that make God?
To answer the blog question:
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
honorable mention:
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
---micha9344 on 3/10/14


\\It's because you said spiritual was neither mental or Physical, so it must be a third element that I called "mystical" .\\

Calling spiritual things "mystical" doesn't make them mystical.

And I'd be lying if I said that I didn't believe that Orthodox had the real Holy Spirit.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/10/14


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Steving, You're typical of the evangelical fundamentalists who come out with this nonsense about being two people in one!
Your post is straight out of Egyptian mythology: IE
They mummified the body believing the soul could revisit and they carved the casket in the likeness of the dead in case the body disintegrated!
You are "one" person who dies and the same person is resurrected!
---1st_cliff on 3/9/14


Spiritual and mental are completely different. Mental is from the physical brain while spiritual encompasses, well, the spirit being. A non-believer only has one body, the physical body which encompasses the physical body and brain/mind (the accumulation of all your physical experiences and knowledge). The believer, on the other hand, has two bodies - one physical and one spiritual. That's why a christian is "born again" - they were born first with a physical body and they are born again with a spiritual body. Remember: "the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh (in which the brain/mind is part of) is weak."
---Steveng on 3/9/14


Cluny, You asked why I brought them up?
It's because you said spiritual was neither mental or Physical, so it must be a third element that I called "mystical" .
Why? because there are those who believe that a mystical force guides certain selected persons with information "ordinary" people are not privileged to acquire!
Problem is, this force(imagined to be Holy Spirit) gives opposite directions to those who believe they are also privileged!
Ah but certainly not me...huh? (I got the real thing)
---1st_cliff on 3/9/14


"Please don't confuse yourself with everyone else, 1st_cliff. That's the height of narcissism."

Actually, that's the exact opposite of narcissism. Narcissists believe themselves to be different then everyone else, because that is the only way they can be superior and exceptional.

"\\Since "condescending" applies to you, is it physical or psychological?\\

Neither, because you are merely projecting."


That's not projecting, just making a clear observation, really. We have all observed this about you, so it seems you are the one who is confused about your own behavior.
---Stan on 3/9/14


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Cluny, Spiritual is not "rocket science" it's from the frontal lobes of the brain, therefore "mental"!
My first wife (deceased) underwent shock therapy, I well know brain functions!
What happens to the "spiritual" when one has Alzheimer's or Dementia?
---1st_cliff on 3/9/14


\\Sensations, spine tingling etc. are not "mystical" but emotional brain issues!
---1st_cliff on 3/8/14\\

I will agree with you here, but I've not been talking about such things, have I?

Why did you bring them up? To confuse the issue?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/9/14


\\Cluny, Since you say that spiritual is neither mental nor physical you are as I suspected into the realm of mysticism!\\

You don't actually think that something spiritual is either mental or physical, do you?

Are you that confused?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/8/14


Cluny, Since you say that spiritual is neither mental nor physical you are as I suspected into the realm of mysticism!
Every thought, emotion, act, belief etc. is brain oriented Physical/mental, a hard enough blow to the head or dementia can change your whole psyche!
God's influence is in your thought pattern, where decisions are made !
Sensations, spine tingling etc. are not "mystical" but emotional brain issues!
---1st_cliff on 3/8/14


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\\Since "condescending" applies to you, is it physical or psychological?\\

Neither, because you are merely projecting. (The second psychological term I've used.)

\\Is "spiritual" a mental or physical term?\\

Again, neither.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/14


\\Cluny, Maybe I have my terms wrong, I thought confusing the mind was psychological.\\

What is your mind confused about, 1st Cliff?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/14


Cluny, Maybe I have my terms wrong, I thought confusing the mind was psychological!
Since "condescending" applies to you, is it physical or psychological?
Is "spiritual" a mental or physical term?
I like to get these terms in their proper category !
Maybe you can sort them out.
---1st_cliff on 3/7/14


\\The doctrine that it is literal is transubstantiation. \\

No, Samuel.

Transubstantiation is a theory that attempts to explain just HOW the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ.

While transubstantiation is the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, Orthodoxy has never committed herself to explaining how this change happens.

We go no farther than saying it happens by the action of the Holy Spirit.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/14


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\\You know what you mean but no one else does!
---1st_cliff on 3/7/14\\

Please don't confuse yourself with everyone else, 1st_cliff. That's the height of narcissism. (First psychological term I've used in this discussion.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/14


Mat 26:26-29

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it,


For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

As a point of fact he does not use word wine. But he does call it the fruit of the vine. Which does not automatically mean wine.

Yes there is a reason that this could be taken literally. But it can also be figurative.

The doctrine that it is literal is transubstantiation. This has been a major bone of Contention between most Protestants and Orthodox churches for over 500 years.

I do not believe that personal attacks help either side.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/7/14


Cluny, You're indulging in psychological "slight-of-hand" ,which cup is the pea under? Nothing straight forward, meaningless words to confound the general public!
You know what you mean but no one else does!
---1st_cliff on 3/7/14


One must understand the meaning of the bible using the minds of the writers at the time it was written. Jesus is surely not a "lamb." Christians are called many things in the bible: "vines," "sheep," "salt," "light." But are they really? Is Jesus really "bread?" Is the whole body of christians "bride?" Are wicked people really "wolves?"

John 4:14
John 7:37
John 6:35
John 10:14-15
John 15:5
Matthew 5:13-14
Matthew 10:16

The Hebrew language is full of metaphors. Without metaphors we wouldn't be able to understand spiritual matters.
---Steveng on 3/6/14


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This is about what should expect you to say, 1stCliff.

I didn't refer to a psychological subject, yet you used an inappropriate word.

Note that you didn't respond to what I actually said. You merely indulged in ad hominem arguments.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/6/14


Cluny, You're wrong! Christ is speaking symbolically. I cannot help the fact that you have been brainwashed to believe the lie of transubstantiation. Despite your beliefs the wine used in communion is still wine. It is not transformed into blood. If it were transformed into blood do you think that James would have said:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Use your brain!

Glory to the true Jesus Christ!
---trey on 3/6/14


Cluny, Thank you for giving us a classic demonstration of psychobabble!
---1st_cliff on 3/6/14


\\Cluny, So you're saying that the statement **The wine WAS His Blood** was not literal but spiritual blood ,\\

Jesus said the wine was truly His Blood.

How it becomes so is a spiritual matter that is perceived spiritually.

This is NOT the same thing as saying "spiritual blood."

But i don't expect you to get it, so don't worry.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/6/14


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Cluny, So you're saying that the statement **The wine WAS His Blood** was not literal but spiritual blood , making your statement false!
It's not nice to try to fool people!
---1st_cliff on 3/6/14


\\They drank the wine, they were forbidden to ingest blood!
---1st_cliff on 3/5/14\\

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, 1st_cliff, so I don't expect better of you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/14


Cluny **Christ said the wine WAS His Blood**
Wrong,
They drank the wine, they were forbidden to ingest blood!
---1st_cliff on 3/5/14


\\ Christ speaks of the wine being symbolic of His blood that is the blood of the new testament or new covenant which is also known as the "Everlasting Covenant".\\

Wrong.

Christ said the wine WAS His Blood.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/14


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Cluny, the expression "new testament" is used 6 times in the KJV.

It was first used by Christ in Matt 26:28 at the last supper. Christ speaks of the wine being symbolic of His blood that is the blood of the new testament or new covenant which is also known as the "Everlasting Covenant".

Heb13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Heb13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
---trey on 3/4/14


Yes. It does say new testament. I always thought of it in the context of new covenant not the part of the bible that is called new testament.

In the latter context, new testament is not mentioned. You could make an argument in 2 cor and hebrews. I still don't think either were referring to the books Matt to rev.
---aka on 3/4/14


1.Matt 26:28
2.Mark 14:24
3.Luke 22:20
4.1 Cor 11:25
5.2 Cor 3:6
6.Heb 9:15
---michael_e on 3/4/14


The division OT and NT is mainly because of language, Hebrew dominating OT and Greek dominating NT!
Plus a 500 year gap in writing!
---1st_cliff on 3/4/14


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Sometimes these questions bring a smile to my face. This is one of those instances.
---KarenD on 3/4/14


\\Does any bible use the words new testament in the text of the bibles?\\

Yes. The KJV does.

Do you know where, and who first used it, and in what context?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/14


Does any bible use the words new testament in the text of the bibles?


That is a man made division like verses.

What about chapter numbers and titles?
---aka on 3/4/14


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