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Canadian Hate Speech Laws

Canadian laws may be dictating what a church can and cannot preach. It shut down MacGregor Ministries under "hate crimes" and FOTF Canada has already compromised scripture just to stay within the laws. Most christians say it won't happen in America. Your thoughts?

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\\I will just say you don't need to be a baptist to be saved but we both know it's the best way.\\

Who's "we both," Kemo Sabe?

If you're saved, it's IN SPITE OF your being a Baptist.
---Cluny on 4/4/14

Reply from Cluny is one of his personal best....of the year. Yes, style of a familiar "Cluny" one liner. Yes it stings.
Yes, pretty sure he realizes that the same thing could be said about his "Ortho", or myself.
Truth is still truth....our object here (ha)....found by much wrangling, tangling and self observation.
Self observation?? At times am sure we all .....wish we'd taken a day off before answering....or they had. Whoever, they might be.
---Trav on 9/26/14


Dear Luke

I have never made that distinction. But I can understand your point. To me they are harder to separate but your point is a valid one.

GOD bless and keep you.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/10/14


//For instance there is and have been groups that teach once a person is saved anything they do is okay. If they commit adultery that is fine if they murder someone that is okay.//

Dear Samuel,
you are confusing what Sola Scriptura means. It is a hermeneutics tool use to interpret Scripture. Scripture interprets Scripture.
What you are talking about with your comment is the application of an interpretation. What a believer does after he interprets the passage is a whole different story outside of Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura is not talking about application, but interpretation of the passage.
---Luke on 4/10/14


Well Luke we are in 80% or more agreement.

But what scripture says is to judge what we teach.

For instance there is and have been groups that teach once a person is saved anything they do is okay. If they commit adultery that is fine if they murder someone that is okay.

Others have taught that any tradition they have like asking the dead for guidance is a good practice.

But the Bible teaches that both of these doctrines are false and not biblical.

So to find a truth we must do like you pointed out comparing scripture. But then what we find must govern and tell us what to teach.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/8/14


Sola Scriptura,
has nothing to do with outside the Bible traditions. Sola Scriptura is a hermeneutics tool in the process of interpreting Scripture.
Scripture interprets Scripture. When a believer interprets a verse correctly, it can be judge by other passages that speak on the same subject. Every topic mentioned in the Word of God can be found in other passages to confirm you have interpreted the passage correctly. If the passage you interpreted does not line up with the other passages on the same topic, then you have interpreted the passage wrong. Agape
---Luke on 4/8/14




As I've said when asked this question before, I'm just asking that people who say they believe in sola scriptura and try to force it upon me to play consistently by their own rule.

That's all. Cluny

Which those who believe all the words they teach must be in the Bible should do. But I and many others do not believe Sola Scriptoria means only words from the Bible.

It means all doctrines and teachings must be judged as true or false by the Bible.

So for those who do make the mistake you refer to I agree with your point. But it does not apply to me. Since I accept that traditions and phrases which do not contradict the Bible are fine.

Agpae
---Samuelbb7 on 4/7/14


Sin nature is a simple principle.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Levi paid tithes "in Abraham" because of what Abraham did.
We die "in Adam" because of what Adam did.
We also continue in that because of what we have done.
But:
We live "in Christ" because of what Christ did.
Adopted to be heirs of the promise.
And continue not in the flesh, but in the Spirit.
---micha9344 on 4/4/14


\\I will just say you don't need to be a baptist to be saved but we both know it's the best way.\\

Who's "we both," Kemo Sabe?

If you're saved, it's IN SPITE OF your being a Baptist.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/4/14


\\Cluny many terms used by all churches including the Orthodox are not found in the Bible. But since you believe tradition such as certain words are above the Bible. How can you use that argument?\\

As I've said when asked this question before, I'm just asking that people who say they believe in sola scriptura and try to force it upon me to play consistently by their own rule.

That's all.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/4/14


Luke. Protestants in general believe we are born with a sin nature. That is we want to sin and it is part of who we are. That is not the same as being guilty of the sin Adam committed.

This goes along with the teaching of the age of accountability. Infants are baptized in some churches because they are already guilty of sin for being born.

But many protestant believe in the Believers Baptism which means a person must actually accept JESUS CHRIST as their LORD and Savior before being baptized.

Cluny many terms used by all churches including the Orthodox are not found in the Bible. But since you believe tradition such as certain words are above the Bible. How can you use that argument?

Agape to all
---Samuelbb7 on 4/4/14




//Well in the RCC the original sin doctrine is that all are born guilty of the sin of Adam.
A doctrine most Protestants including the SDA reject//

Brother Samuel, I do not know about SDA's but most protestant churches believe that all of Adam descendants are born physically in sin because of Adam as the Bible clearly teaches. Original sin is the sin of Adam. Adam was our representative.
There might be some protestant churches that teach differently, but they are very few. What has happen is that there is a movement going on that wants to minimize the guilt of the sinners. That there is some who are good. But the Bible tells us that anyone without faith is guilty. Agape
---Luke on 4/4/14


"\\...accountability\\
Another phrase nowhere in the Bible."

There are many "phrases" we use to explain spiritual issues that are not in the Bible. Again, "Bible" is one of those.

We don't see "Baptismal Pool, Choir Robes, Gospel Sings, Pulpit, Guitar, Radio, and on and on. Yet we see the concept of many things we say and use.

The excuse of "It's not written in the Bible" is no less than a lame attempt to avoid an issue to gain an upper hand in a debate where you can't prove anything different.

On another blog this one tells us there are other things available to use that are not written in the Bible now says we cant.

So make up your mind Cluny which is it?
---Elder on 4/4/14


Cluny, here you go again. I will just say you don't need to be a baptist to be saved but we both know it's the best way. You were not agreeing with cliff unless you were just agreeing with him all the while with a condescending attitude. Guess you just can't help yourself.
---shira4368 on 4/4/14


\\those who aren't to the age of accountability\\

Another phrase nowhere in the Bible.

That is something I realized just before I left Baptists and got saved.

shira, you accuse me of being hateful.

Unlike you, I didn't tell anyone to jump off a bridge. I merely agreed with 1stCliff and what he said about me.

I didn't know that agreeing with others was your idea of being hateful.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/3/14


Samuel I think different areas in the U.S. believe differently concerning sin nature. Baptist believe we are all born a sinner and those who aren't to the age of accountability are not responsible for their sin since they don't understand. I do think Baptist in different parts of the U.S. believe differently than the southerners believe.
---shira4368 on 4/3/14


Samuel, to get a start in the answer to your question, go to Orthodoxwiki.

\\cluny, you are the most hateful person. you need to get off your high horse and apologize to cl\\

I love you too, shira.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/3/14


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\\you need to get off your high horse and apologize to cliff.\\

The fact is, shira, that you are the last person in the world to tell me to apologize to anyone.

I'm just glad I'm here for you to vent your spleen upon. No telling what you would do to people in real life if you couldn't drain your hostility and frustration in some way.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/3/14


Been away awhile too busy.


Not the way the RCC and her protestant daughters, including the SDA, accept it.

Cluny

Well in the RCC the original sin doctrine is that all are born guilty of the sin of Adam.

A doctrine most Protestants including the SDA reject. So before I get off track. Please explain your understanding a little better.

Some teach we are not guilty of any sin till we are old enough to understand we have committed a sin. But that we will all if living long enough commit sin since we are unable to not live in sin due to our nature.


Others that we are born with the inability not to live in sin. This is called a sin nature.

Agpae
---Samuelbb7 on 4/3/14


People develop a mental image of others just by the way they speak!
I picture Cluny sitting in his saffron robe on a mountain top and people climbing up to ask "O great Guru, what is the meaning of life?"
---1st_cliff on 4/2/14


cluny, you are the most hateful person. you need to get off your high horse and apologize to cliff. the facts are you don't know as much as you think you know.
---shira4368 on 4/2/14


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\\perhaps you with your full knowledge\\

I'm glad you finally acknowledge it.

Listen to me, and you might learn something.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/1/14


Cluny, Since Jesus never said exactly what the Kingdom is, but hinted only in parables, perhaps you with your full knowledge could enlighten us as to the specifics!
---1st_cliff on 4/1/14


\\Cluny, I have an inquiring mind because I don't profess to "know-it-all" and sometime I even get it wrong!\\

It's not just sometimes.

\\I accept full responsibility for my Kingdom search!\\

As in ever searching and never arriving?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/31/14


Cluny, I have an inquiring mind because I don't profess to "know-it-all" and sometime I even get it wrong!
Being of the majority opinion is not my strong suit!
I don't subscribe to an "ism"
I accept full responsibility for my Kingdom search!
---1st_cliff on 3/31/14


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Hate speech is what anti-free-speech radicals call anything they don't agree with. Such oppression of fundamental, God-given rights can only exist in oppressive dictatorships. America is on her way to becoming one of those. May God help us!



---jerry6593 on 3/31/14


\\Cluny, Although you didn't say those words, that's what you intimated!
---1st_cliff on 3/30/14\\

That's what you inferred, but it's neither what I said nor what I meant.

But I've noticed that I'm not the only person whose words you misunderstand.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/30/14


Cluny, Although you didn't say those words, that's what you intimated!
---1st_cliff on 3/30/14


Well, since this blog went off course, I'll put my two cents concerning natural sin.

If a child is born without parents and left alone to grow, that child will be feral - not knowing right from wrong, not knowing God's law. This is natural sin.
---Steveng on 3/30/14


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\\Now you say Orthodoxy believe they're in a state of sinlessness?\\

But that's not what I said.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/30/14


Hate speech is telling people how God has made you better than everybody else. Which he did not. Yes in our eyes we are different but according to God we are equal.
---Bryan on 3/30/14


there is a sin nature. our flesh is in a constant battle with the Spirit. the only way to fight the flesh is to bring it in subjection. another way is prayer daily. our flesh likes to do certain things but because we are saved, we don't do them.
---shira4368 on 3/29/14


Cluny, Keep digging, the hole is getting deeper!
Now you say Orthodoxy believe they're in a state of sinlessness?
If not, what is your "state" (and don't say Arizona)
---1st_cliff on 3/29/14


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\\What do you consider the doctrine of the Sin Nature to be?\\

From the Orthodox view point, there is no such thing as a sin nature.

The natural state of mankind, which means as how God created us, is sinlessness.

\\Do you believe in the Original Sin doctrine like the RCC?\\

I've already said Orthodoxy rejects this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/29/14


\\Do you believe in the Original Sin doctrine like the RCC?\\

Not the way the RCC and her protestant daughters, including the SDA, accept it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/28/14


Dear Cluny

What do you consider the doctrine of the Sin Nature to be?

Do you believe in the Original Sin doctrine like the RCC?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 3/28/14


Cluny **ORthodox reject the novel false doctrine of "sin nature**
Looks to me like a 180 degree turn!
Probably feels better than to admit you didn't quite have it right!
---1st_cliff on 3/27/14


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\\Cluny, If it's "natural" for man to sin(because of his "sin nature" it must be "unnatural" to "seek righteousness" or obey God's command "You must be holy".
Is God telling us to be unnatural?\\

ORthodox reject the novel false doctrine of a "sin nature."

I'm just showing you where it leads.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/27/14


"If people have a "sin nature," Elder, what is more natural for them to do but sin?"
Cluny

Man, oh man, I wish you had been there to correct God when He had Romans 1:24-32 written.

Your knowledge is just unnatural, ugh... natural, well, anyway I think I'll go give you a vote....
---Elder on 3/27/14


Cluny, If it's "natural" for man to sin(because of his "sin nature" it must be "unnatural" to "seek righteousness" or obey God's command "You must be holy".
Is God telling us to be unnatural?
---1st_cliff on 3/26/14


If people have a "sin nature," Elder, what is more natural for them to do but sin?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/26/14


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"May God bless you as richly as you bless me, Elder."
Cluny

I repeated just what you said Cluny.

"If it were unnatural, it couldn't be done.
People don't grow feathers, because that would be unnatural."
Cluny

God says certain human physical acts that they are able to perform are unnatural. You say that is not so. You said if they can do something then it must be natural.

So now you explain what you said or mean. Think about it.
---Elder on 3/25/14


The Bible is clear on this subject:

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death, their blood shall be upon them.

Deu 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

1Co 6:9,10 ... the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
... shall inherit the kingdom of God.
---jerry6593 on 3/25/14


Cluny, Let me give you an example of "impossible" on this topic,
You could not pay me enough money to kiss man on the lips!
I quit square dancing because men are at times required to hold hands with men, not my cup-of-tea, I can't help it if I prefer women!
---1st_cliff on 3/24/14


May God bless you as richly as you bless me, Elder.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/24/14


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cliff, we know men with men is very possible because we see it everyday all over news and they have have an "in your face" demeanor. they are very proud of what they do. God said He would just let them do what they want and He will leave them alone. If God would tell me He was leaving me alone, I couldn't handle it.
---shira4368 on 3/24/14


Let's see now,
Men/women with men/women, children and animals that is natural to Cluny.

It only becomes unnatural to him if they grow feathers. Now I understand Cluny.
Glory to Jesus Christ!!
---Elder on 3/24/14


Cluny, The dictionary says unnatural is "contrary to nature, abnormal" it doesn't say impossible!
---1st_cliff on 3/24/14


Men with men working that which is unseemly. If that isn't sick what is? What is unseemly?
---shira4368 on 3/23/14


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\\Men with men ,obviously, unnatural ! Nothing in the statement indicates anything more than "unnatural"
---1stcliff on 3/23/14\\

If it were unnatural, it couldn't be done.

People don't grow feathers, because that would be unnatural.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/23/14


//
This is all heralding the last days which I truly hope are close.

---Rita_H on 3/17/14
//


Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The way our (US) society is going, God will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah if He doesn't come soon.



---jerry6593 on 3/23/14


Cluny, The key word here is "natural" IE
Men with woman is natural
Men with men ,obviously, unnatural ! Nothing in the statement indicates anything more than "unnatural"
---1stcliff on 3/23/14


What is his piont? I'm better than you? "Is that his point"? If you new the power that is in the word you would see there is no need to point out the sin. The Holy Spirit does that and he does a better job at it than we do. If you have the faith you say you have, you would share the Gospel, that always changes the heart's of a person.
---Bryan on 3/23/14


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\\Rom1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly,\\

What does this verse say to men who NEVER had romantic, emotional, or erotic feelings for women?

How could they leave what they never had to start with?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/22/14


Let me ask all of you this: If you pastor were to stand in front of the congregation and read:

Rom1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet....
Rom1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Do you believe for one second there aren't people out there who would declare this a hate crime?
---trey on 3/22/14


Here is truth God so loved the world that gave us his word to run it with. We still don't do it by his word. Some don't understand you reap what you sow. God call darkness light and what happen to the darkness? Sow It for life and watch what happen in your life and people around you.
---Bryan on 3/21/14


Bryan: The Lord Jesus in John 3:18 said, "...but he that believeth not is condemned already, ..." Is that hate speech or the truth? When you tell someone that driving blindfolded or drunk kills, is it hate speech or the truth? Like Rita & Shira had written, the speech restrictions on Christians are part of increasing end time persecutions of Christ's church.
---Adetunji on 3/21/14


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Christianity is not a religion of condemnation but of life. So if you condemn with it God have mercy on you. Cause you are condemning yourself by your words.
---Bryan on 3/21/14


I hope and pray that if faced with the decision to obey God or obey man that I would choose God even to the point of death.

Acts5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
---trey on 3/21/14


Mat 23:14-15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
--Judgment according to God's Word is not the same as "hate speech", else you are getting the wrong impression of it.
---micha9344 on 3/21/14


bryan, I can't believe you think what God teaches is hate speech. Noah preached too and no one would listen so they all died except Noah and his sons and their wives. you need to take the gospel of Christ seriously. when people are in hell, they will look and say we are here for promoting hate speech. telling the truth is 360 degrees from hate speech.
---shira4368 on 3/20/14


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Because their sick of religion. If you share the Gospel there is no religion in it, it sets people free from the laws of sin and death. Telling people there going to hell for no believing like your religion teaches, is hate speech. Jesus healed all who came to him.
---Bryan on 3/19/14


Cluny, I did not know that!
As far as politics are concerned, I'm too old for that, plus there's an old saying that if you go into the mud puddle to wash a pig , you become as dirty as the pig!
---1st_cliff on 3/18/14


\\All of our laws are geared to "rehabilitation" of the criminal, There's no such thing as "punishment" for crimes.
---1st_cliff on 3/18/14\\

That was something started by the Quakers. Did you know that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/18/14


\\Cluny, It never seemed like "justice" to me, more like, "Cheaper by the dozen" not much of a deterrent for serial kill\\

Have you considered going into Canadian law or politics to improve penological matters?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/18/14


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Cluny, It never seemed like "justice" to me, more like, "Cheaper by the dozen" not much of a deterrent for serial killers!
Seems like now the law tends to defend the perpetrator while ignoring the victim!
---1st_cliff on 3/18/14


All of our laws are geared to "rehabilitation" of the criminal, There's no such thing as "punishment" for crimes.
---1st_cliff on 3/18/14


\\Cluny, We don't have capital punishment. One guy killed 11 boys and is serving a life sentence (25 yrs.) all 11 concurrent! \\

I don't know how Canadian jurisprudence works, but in the USA, depending on the state, the judge can decide if multiple sentences run concurrently or consecutively.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/18/14


Cluny, We don't have capital punishment. One guy killed 11 boys and is serving a life sentence (25 yrs.) all 11 concurrent!
A shop owner was robbed and chased the robber down the street, caught him and knocked him down and was charged with assault! Crazy!
---1st_cliff on 3/17/14


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amen rita, you hit the nail on the head. wow, that's what Ive been saying for a while yet no one believes it will happen. muslims are getting more and more control all over the world.
---shira4368 on 3/17/14


\\The same penalty for murdering one person or ten. They can serve all 10 sentences "concurrent" \\

How do you execute someone 10 times?

And the man in Phoenix who killed several people in a Buddhist temple is serving 9 consecutive sentences.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/17/14


Our legal system is anything but just! IE, The same penalty for murdering one person or ten. They can serve all 10 sentences "concurrent"
or robbery or any crime or combination of crimes! !
Since we don't have a "1st amendment" Speech is limited !
What you say publicly can be construed as "hate" and you pay the consequences!
---1st_cliff on 3/17/14


\\This is all heralding the last days which I truly hope are close.\\

According to Acts 2, we've been in the Last Days since Pentecost.

Whether these are the last days of the Late Great Planet Earth, at my age, these are MY last days.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/17/14


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As the end times near this will happen more and more. It has been happening in more subtle ways for decades.

Firstly in U.K. schools had to cease having Christian assemblies, then all Christian R.E. classes ceased and whilst Muslims can go and pray 5 times a day Christians must not mention their faith whilst in work or school etc.

Governments will clamp down more and more on Christianity but when Muslims become much stronger Governments will fail to control what 'they' say because Muslims will not deal with that peacably as Christians have done.

This is all heralding the last days which I truly hope are close.
---Rita_H on 3/17/14


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