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Who Was The Scapegoat

The old testament sanctuary was an object lesson to God's people regarding sin and Gods provision to offer us salvation. Who or what did the scapegoat (Lev 16) represent and what does the placement of sins upon it and the banishment into the wilderness mean?

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 ---therese on 3/20/14
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Amen Micha9344. I stand in complete agreement with your post on on 4/4.
---joseph on 4/7/14


Samuel, we are justified by His blood and saved by His life. If Jesus were not sinless He could not have taken our sin upon Himself. And not only that, God could not have raised Him from the dead. That's the whole point of "without blemish" . And if Jesus was not raised from the dead then WE are still in our sin.

TODAY WE PUT OFF THE BODY OF SIN, ...Our sin, By being crucified with Christ , Colossians 2 make that very clear. We have a complete picture today.... Nothing about putting off our sin on satan.

Please read Colossians 2, also showing IN Christ alone even the keeping of the Sabbath day was ALSO fulfilled IN Christ. EVERYTHING pointed to Christ, even the 7th day. Even Aaron's rod that budded.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/14


It is quite simple, really.
The two goats made one sin sacrifice.
One goat could not completely represent the humanity and divinity of Jesus Christ.
One goat was slain for their sins.
One goat lived and removed their sins as far as the east is from the west.
The death and resurrection of Christ.
These goats were selected by lot and in no way, shape, or form each represent Christ and Satan, for Christ and Satan were never equals.
Also, as previously stated, Satan is definitely not without blemish.
The scapegoat was the representation of God removing the sins from Israel.
The slain goat was the propitiation for the sins.
Christ is both our substitute and our scapegoat, removing our sins and the punishment for them.
---micha9344 on 4/4/14


For he (God the Father) hath made him( Jesus Christ ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him( Christ).

Let's do this again.....only a spotless sinless ......who is Christ.

Satan not only knew sin but was full of sin. Therefore could not be the scapegoat.


Samuel, Samuel Samuel....what part of this verse and Isaiah 53 don't you understand? Satan is not going to get thrown into the wilderness. Satan is going to hell for his own sin, not anyone else's.

Satan was not SPOTLESS or without sin.

Scapegoat means...someone INNOCENT taking the blame for another.
---kathr4453 on 4/4/14


Good point only the shedding of blood portrays the forgiving of sins.

This is a minor doctrine. I believe the term Azalea gives us the identity of the goat and that it is the devil. Who in the future will be cast into the wilderness. See Satan in revelation.

But I have not quarrel with those who think I am wrong. It is not that important.

We are saved by the Blood of our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST alone by Grace through faith.

Agape to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/3/14




We see in Lev 4:22-31, the kid goat slain for the atonement of sins as well as many other passages afterward.
Num 28:30 [And] one kid of the goats, to make an atonement for you.
But, once a year, the same thing happens for the whole congregation, with the scapegoat as the exception.
What do we know about these goats?
Both are without blemish.
Both are equals.
Both were ready to be the sin offering.
Both were made for atonement. vv.10,15-17
One died to satisfy judgment, and afterward the other lived through mercy.
None,absolutely none, of this applies to Satan.
This is about the death and subsequent life of our Lord Jesus Christ, who satisfied the wrath and was raised in love for us all.
Acts 25:19
---micha9344 on 3/31/14


Yes Therese, Jesus paid it all. So regardless of the different opinions of what the scapegoat represented in the types and shadows of the atonement we know that Jesus is ALSO today our High priest. Today, our sin is as far as the east is from the west and will never come back on us. There is no more remembrance of sin year after year. So seeing scapegoat also means someone innocent takes the blame for another, I see Jesus Christ in ALL the types and shadows including the scapegoat, the lamb shed blood the mercy seat, etc. So everything was after a pattern of things in heaven. And that everything is all IN Christ and after Christ. We who are saved are now complete in Him.

God bless.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/14


There have been various identities suggested for the Azazel goat.

Thanks to all who commented. It has perplexed minds greater than ours.

One thing for sure, because there was NO SHEDING OF THE BLOOD of this goat, this goat does NOT illustrate how we are saved. ONLY THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS saves us.

Wikipedia states that the teaching that the goat represented Satan was commonly taught among Christians of previous centuries.
---therese on 3/29/14


For he (God the Father) hath made him( Jesus Christ ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him( Christ).

Let's do this again.....only a spotless sinless ......who is Christ.

Satan not only knew sin but was full of sin. Therefore could not be the scapegoat.
---kathr4453 on 3/29/14


Regarding SDAs believing that Satan is their saviour.

In the Moody Bible Institute Monthly in 1930, long long ago I know, when an accusation was made stating this, it was later retracted and an apology given to SDAs.

The writer, Grant Stroh wrote these words the following year.
Having since read some of the writings of the SDAs, (including the way of salvation set forth by their acknowledge prophet, Mrs E G White) I found it can be proved from them that such IS NOT their belief. ....

We beg forgiveness of these good people for any misstatement of their doctrines.
---therese on 3/29/14




Elder:

You make a strong case for the scapegoat representing Satan, the one who is responsible for ALL sin. The Lord's goat was sacrificed, so he must represent Christ. Satan, his angels, and all wicked will ultimately be destroyed in the lake of fire.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick, therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


---jerry6593 on 3/29/14


Kathr, to be clear are you saying that him=himself?

This is the way i read it..

For he [God the Father] hath made him [Jesus] to be sin for us, who [Jesus] knew no sin,that we might be made the *righteousness of God* in (through) him [Jesus].

Romans 1:17

King James Version (KJV)

17For therein [gospel of Jesus Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Except in parable by Jesus explaining the kingdom, God the Father has never been represented by a man except Jesus. Before Jesus was fit, Jesus had to be sacrificed for the propitiation of sin and became fit to properly dispose sin.
---aka on 3/29/14


AKA Maybe the fit man is God and the scapegoat is Jesus???

For he hath made him( GOD the Father) to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him( Christ).

You just can't separate this verse.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/14


Sorry fit man of leviticus 16.

No will recognize YOU as the one who takes the scapegoat to the wilderness as it clearly reads in scripture to forever live out of the presence of the Lord.

Kind of like when Satan and his minions are thrown into the lake of fire. Nobody said the embers would subside there.

Who is worthy? The slain 'goat' who became fit to throw out the trash.
---aka on 3/28/14


Another illustration is, Hebrews says Jesus suffered "outside the camp". So the scapegoat sent into the wilderness could also represent Jesus Suffering outside the camp.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/14


I could see Barabbas as the scapegoat with these exceptions:
-Barabbas was not "without blemish" as prescribed in Lev 4 for a sin offering.
Remember that it was by lot that the goats were separated, not by purity.
-Barabbas did not have the sins of Israel placed upon him.
-There is no indication that Barabbas was "released" to a "remote place" but went into the people.
On the other hand:
Jesus was without blemish.
Jesus did have the "sins of us all" placed on Him.
Jesus, alive, bears the iniquities of us all in a "remote place."
Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen, and have the keys of hell and of death.
Mercy
---micha9344 on 3/28/14


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Apparently, it seems that many people here don't differentiate/distinguish between a "DOCTRINE" and an ILLUSTRATION (common among Christians).

I "illustrated" that HUMANITY (the FLESH) will use a scapegoat for an EXCUSE to continue causing evil (SATAN is the excuse/scapegoat that is convenient to humanity).

The FATHER sent JESUS to be the bearer of our sins/guilt (GOD'S "scapegoat"/substitute for our INNOCENCE....

....of course none of this is explained clearly to children who DON'T WANT understanding (the 'bookists'), but he who will accept a little bit of understanding will be given more.
---faithforfaith on 3/28/14


We use, Wikipedia, Hollywood, our imagination, movies, Yahoo answers, the internet, Hebrew mythology, legend and other things to gain knowledge of the bible. Then we wonder why we don't understand God's Word.

If we study the book of Lev and the New Testament books covering the crucifixion we see the different OT types illustrated.

Jesus is the type of the OT sacrifice for sin. He is the Lamb of God.

In the NT we see another type. That is the Scapegoat. The scapegoat was laden with the sins and released into the wilderness.

That type is illustrated in Barabbas. He was laden with sin and released by Pilate. Remember Barabbas tried to overthrow the government of Pilate.
---Elder on 3/28/14


That is what the words mean.
Strong's Number H5799 matches the Hebrew aza'zel.//

H5799 does not mean demon or the name of a demon or satan.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/14


Therese, it is called the lake of Fire, where the worm never dies.
So YOU are saying, In the end after all is said and done, everyone's sin will be atoned for by putting it all on satan, and all live happily ever after???? So the wages of sin was never really death you say? So in the end satan dies so you can live?

Do you all even know what death means? In Adam all die is not just physical death. If we DIED to sin, being crucified (death) with Christ, what does that death mean to you? Can I actually be risen up with Christ and still alive to sin at the same time? NO! So Therese, TODAY if you don't die to sin with Christ, there is no happily ever after for you.

Putting your sin on satan will NEVER MAKE YOU RIGHTEOUS.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/14


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2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So here again is where you miss the truth Therese, satan can never make you the Righteousness of God IN Christ . And no unrighteousness or ungodliness will ever enter the new creation. I really hate seeing you bet on the wrong horse here. Wow what a gamble on your part ESPECIALLY when God never made any such promise to you to begin with. Your scapegoat theory is what you're betting on?

People will believe ANYTHING to avoid the CROSS. Just one more who think the CROSS is foolishness.

Romans 6 Galatians 2:20-21
---kathr453 on 3/28/14


You believe about sacrifices based on what? ---aka on 3/27/14

Offering sacrifices didnt just start after the Israelites came out of Egypt. Didnt the patriarchs know anything about salvation when they built altars and sacrificed animals?

Abraham was given the greatest object lesson about Gods Son coming to die for humans when he was told to sacrifice Isaac.
---therese on 3/28/14


Just as the slain goat represented JESUS. The living goat represents Azazel or the chief of demons.

That is what the words mean.
Strong's Number H5799 matches the Hebrew aza'zel.

Since JESUS died for our sins and was not lead away to carry our sins for his entire life. Some in the past and today conclude that the scapegoat represents Lucifer.

But this does not affect the salvation of anyone.

If you say it is JESUS please explain why it is left alive in the wilderness.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/28/14


Many actually believe this MYTHOLOGY and have brought it into Christian doctrine. It's absolutely HORRIBLE some have done this. kathr4453 on 3/27/14

A little like what has happened with eternally burning hell.

I do believe in a burning hell at the end of life here on earth, as the bible clearly teaches. But torture for ever from a loving God. NO WAY
---therese on 3/27/14


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The movie EXPLAINED very clearly that Azazel is EVIL INCARNATE (Look it up at wikipedia...an EVIL SPIRIT/DEMON in Hebrew mythology/legend).///


The word scapegoat or Hebrew word Azazel is not evil incarnate. that's the whole point here. The scapegoat was innocent. It was just a goat for Pete sakes.

That's why aka I posted that snippet. many actually believe this MYTHOLOGY and have brought it into Christian doctrine. It's absolutely HORRIBLE some have done this.

The scapegoat didn't have a name. And no one said, "go pick put out the most evil looking mean spirited nastiest goat you can find"
---kathr4453 on 3/27/14


Faith 4 faith

There is no comment about the 'info' that we got from yahoo answers but they criticize your illustration.

I think it very wise to keep a watch on hollywood and the stuff that they put out. Who primarily owns hollywood?

I seem to think I remember jesus saying something about jews who call themselves jews but are not.
---aka on 3/27/14


What's this "Truth from hollywood" comment?

Can't anybody ever 'ILLUSTRATE' a point around here?

The movie EXPLAINED very clearly that Azazel is EVIL INCARNATE (Look it up at wikipedia...an EVIL SPIRIT/DEMON in Hebrew mythology/legend).

Jesus was the GOOD ' for our transgressions, Azazel 'substitue' (bearer) was the BAD/useless bearer of our guilt (satan/flesh is the OLD/useless bearer).

Try some IMAGINATION sometime (it's useful to gain UNDERSTANDING sometimes).
---faithforfaith on 3/27/14


believe the truths of salvation were taught in the individual sacrifices as had been the case since the beginning of life on this earth, when individuals confessed their sin, sacrificed the animal and professed faith in the promised saviour.

---thereseon 3/26/14

You believe about sacrifices based on what?

Hebrews gives a very good summation of many things in the OT and goes on to explain the fulfillment of the scriptures.
---aka on 3/27/14


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Theresa, everything in the sanctuary is a picture of Jesus Christ. Romans 5 say we have received the atonement. There is no more future atonement. It is finished my dear. Jesus is not going to die again. Nor is satan going to take away anyone sin.

If you reject the Gift of the FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST ON THE CROSS, you will die IN YOUR SIN.

Today is the day of salvation.
---kathr4453 on 3/27/14


Sorry theresa...I thought we were talking about all of lev 16 and not just the verses that white needed to formulate her brand of theology.
---aka on 3/26/14


What was the whole DAY OF ATONEMENT about? The cleansing of the Sanctuary, the removal of the record of the sins ( symbolised by the blood) that had been taken into the sanctuary day by day as people confessed their sins and offered the sacrifice proscribed by God.

Was it about JESUS TAKING OUR SINS or something else?

This ceremony seems to be about something else, I believe the removal of sin forever. Something that will happen in the future.

I believe the truths of salvation were taught in the individual sacrifices as had been the case since the beginning of life on this earth, when individuals confessed their sin, sacrificed the animal and professed faith in the promised saviour.
---therese on 3/26/14


Psalms 103:12... far hath he removed our transgressions from us. --micha9344on 3/26/14

The scapegoat did nothing to remove our sins, it was the fit man who took our sins that were placed on the goat.

One goat was chosen for blood sacrifice, the other was chosen to live in the wilderness to shoulder the sin of ours that he introduced.

Don't you see that that jesus became the fit man after he sacrificed his blood for us?

he became the blood sacrifice that God required and became fit to remove the sin that keeps us from life.

As it says in revelation of jesus christ...who is worthy? The lamb who shed his blood and redeemed us. This fits the first goat and the fit man.
---aka on 3/26/14


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That settles it then.
Let's rely on Truth from Hollywood.
Or, we can dig deeper into scripture to see what this "azazel" really is.
In Lev 16:5, the word "goats" is from the Hebrew "ez."
In Deu 32:36, the word "gone" is from the Hebrew "azal."
Together they form the "goat gone" or "azazel" as is transliterated from the Hebrew.
This "azazel" is used four times in scripture, always translated as "scapegoat" in KJV.
It doesn't seem to be a place or a person(entity).
It is the released goat gone into the wilderness.
"to send it away for a goat of departure into the wilderness"-Ex 16:10 YLT
---micha9344 on 3/26/14


In the movie "THE FALLEN", Azazel is a character/figure of EVIL INCARNATE (satan) that still inhabits humanity (this "scapegoat" that is being spoken of here is the mortal "flesh").

In Leviticus, the Prince of Peace (God's lamb, Jesus) overcomes the "scapegoat".

Jesus is the substitute for the guilt/penalty that rightfully belongs to us, Isaiah 9:6, the Prince of Peace brings the "Wonderful Counselor" to offer COMPLETE salvation".

Jesus tells us that if we have not THE SPIRIT you are NO PART OF HIM.
---fauthforfaith on 3/26/14


The two goats represent the holiness of God, one of judgment, one of mercy.
As Kathr pointed out in Isa 53, it is all about Christ, His taking the punishment for our sins (judgment), and removing it from us(mercy).
Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, [so] far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
---micha9344 on 3/26/14


Therese, I believe it's all wrapped up in the definition of "propitiation". We see in scripture through this that Jesus was all the types and shadows including the High Priest, mercy seat, even the veil leading to the Holy of Holies. "Through the veil, that is to say my flesh"
---kathr4453 on 3/26/14


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Isaiah 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all..

Scripture is very clear in more places than one that Satan is not the scape goat where our sin was placed on Satan.

Isaiah 53 is not about Satan, but the promised Messiah, we know as Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God who TAKES AWAY the sin of the world.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/14


The way we use the word SCAPEGOAT today is of someone innocent taking the blame, which we could say Jesus did.

The KJV and many modern versions translate AZAZEL as SCAPEGOAT but many others just leave the word AZAZEL.

Many commentaries suggest that since THE LORD is a personal being, one would expect AZAZEL to be a personal being.

The AZAZEL goat is not sacrificed for our sins, even though scripture tells the priest to confess all the sins of Israel on its head.

I believe it is symbolic of complete forgiveness. Sins never to come back.

It would have been less confusing if all bible translators had left the name AZAZEL.
---therese on 3/25/14


Jerry if you have something like that to say, say it to the right person.

Kathr...yes people should be educated...people should also know the source. Also...I never said that Satan was responsible for my sin. However...God provided a way for the Israelites to atone for the sins that they were responsible for. And he gave us a way too that is permanent.

therese...the scapegoat does not take sin away. God chose through lots believed to be God's spirit and a fit man was chosen to place the scapegoat in the wilderness. So the fit man takes the sin placed on the goat away.
---aka on 3/25/14


Cluny, it is pitiful how insistently you pretend to NOT UNDERSTAND....

...he who has allowed himself to understand...[will have UNDERSTANDING]....and will be given more understanding.

Well Cluny, I guess you will never have the UNDERSTANDING that you want (because you refuse to have any understanding at all EVEN THOUGH I HAVE EXPLAINED what you asked about before.
---faithforfaith on 3/25/14


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therese: Perhaps those who expect trickery are they who practice it. Just a thought.


Psa 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?




---jerry6593 on 3/25/14


\\I have never attempted to explain/justify any "proper theological terminology" (we must ESCAPE from this 'box' that we place ourselves in).\\

In other words, you have no idea what you meant by "Jesus episode of God."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/24/14


I have never attempted to explain/justify any "proper theological terminology" (we must ESCAPE from this 'box' that we place ourselves in). The concept of a 'stage'/episode is only an ILLUSTRATION of the JESUS DISPENSATION/MANIFESTATION.

The Jews were never told to include Jesus in their worship/devotion and also never told to include the HOLY SPIRIT (John 7:39).



Jesus was "DESTINED" since before the foundation of the world, but was not MANIFESTED...or MADE A REALITY until He came to earth.

I do not DECEIVE/"lie" (I have no evil intentions). If I have not explained properly or you do not UNDERSTAND because you put it in different words, it is NOT INTENTIONAL.
---faithforfaith on 3/24/14


They had to do this year after year after year as a remembrance of sin, ...so sin was only TEMPORARY covered.

Today in Christ it is once and for all. There is no sins going to be placed on satan. They were placed on Jesus Christ at the cross...."my God my God why has thou forsaken me."

Aka, that extra "info" is something people need to know. So much GARBAGE is laced with Christianity.

Just find ONE verse that says satan will carry away your sin? Satan was never a part of the day of atonement.

And satan is not responsible for your sin....YOU are. What part of the words on the day of the atonement says....."the devil made me do it...so let's put this all on him"
---kathr4453 on 3/24/14


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...I was the first one to mention two goats ... unlike the questioner who only referred to one. This is a common trick for 'christians' that don't read.
--aka on 3/23/14

Aka, that was a fairly general statement. There is no problem with the identification of the Goat for the LORD. The question was about the goat for Azazel. I expected bloggers would read the entire chapter. What did you mean by common trick. I was not trying to trick anyone. Just trying to get bloggers to look at the problem and give some suggestions or evidence based on scripture.
---therese on 3/23/14


As a side note .... Kathr --- amazingly your side note was a perfect match to "the best answer" to the question 'who is azazel' blog on yahoo answers. is this the extent of your research.

Everything in the bible points to jesus but it is not a book that says jesus,jesus, jesus....

Sorry that you lost your MarkV.
---aka on 3/23/14


Moderator, how come some bloggers can get 3 comments in a row posted and even the same one posted twice. I guess it may not be all that person posts, or are there so few posts to this question.
---therese on 3/23/14


Considering this term Azazel, we need to look at this as part of the ceremony it was concerned with, the day of atonement. This happened one day a year. Could this be symbolic of something to happen once in connection with the plan of salvation?

To the Israelites, this was a day of judgement. Is this Day of Atonement symbolic of the final judgment?

What comes after judgment? The final eradication of sin. The new earth and heavens in which there is no sin, sorrow, death etc.

Could this be what this goat for Azazel indicates? SIN FOREVER GONE.
---therese on 3/23/14


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Hebrews tells us EVERYTHING in the old pointed to Jesus Christ. The lamb! scapegoat! even the high priest. The mercy seat and on and on. It isn't because Jesus is one that something or someone else has to be the other. All was fulfilled IN Christ. Even the sabbath rest.

As a side note, the name Azazel shows up in some Jewish mythology. While there are different versions in the Book of Enoch, the Book of the Giants, and other pseudepigraphal books, the story is essentially that Azazel was the name of one of the fallen angels who sinned and as a curse on his sin, Azazel was forced to take the form of a goat-like demon. This myth is not supported by the Bible and is not compatible with what the Bible says about Azazel or the scapegoat.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/14


When you make satan the scape goat, you totally bypass the preaching of the CROSS. You also deny your own obedience of being crucified with Christ. When we are crucified with Christ, WE DIE TO SIN when we died with Christ. We cannot die to sin if satan took our sin. Satan can not die, and God forbid anyone here claims they died to sin with satan.

Sin is DONE AWAY IN CHRIST, not in satan. Jesus took the judgement of sin in Himself. The whole purpose of being made flesh. If satan can take away sin, then there was no reason for Jesus to die for our sin. Jesus FLESH is the scapegoat. Jesus resurrection is our salvation.

Yes, please do read your bible.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/14


Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more, death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Death is the result of sin. You can't separate sin from death. If satan took your sin, you say he also took your death. Hebrews 2 says no such thing.

So I guess the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who believe satan is the scapegoat.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/14


scapegoat [skeyp-goht]
noun
1.
a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.

I think we can all identify with at least once in our life being thrown under the bus for something we didn't do, so someone else gets off Scott free.

Scapegoat means someone innocent took the punishment for another. Jesus was made FLESH for this very reason. He alone took our punishment in our place. We are the guilty ones. He Died in our place so that we can live. The wages of sin IS DEATH. Jesus was that spotless lamb of God who takes AWAY the sin of the world. No scripture ever says satan took our sin away.
---kathr453 on 3/23/14


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Jerry...I was the first one to mention two goats ... unlike the questioner who only referred to one. This is a common trick for ''christians' that don't read.

Just because I don't subscribe to your mindset...doesn't mean that I did not read it.

You see in the bible and through White's writings that jesus christ is Michael the archangel. I do not. It doesn't mean that discerning christians do not read. The problem is that a few of us do read.
---aka on 3/23/14


Therese: "It would be good for all those commenting on this blog to read the scriptures on this topic."

Amen! Read the Scriptures - what a novel concept!



---jerry6593 on 3/23/14


Thanks-aka on 3/22/14. Your explanation makes sense.
---therese on 3/23/14


Both goats and the fit man are pictures Christ's work upon the cross!

---treyon 3/22/14

Trey...Do you realize the actual Hebrew word for scapegoat is? Is this a description of christ?

Therese...Jesus christ takes the sins of the world away by paying the wages of sin. The scapegoat azazel shoulders the sin which he introduced in the garden of eden.
---aka on 3/22/14


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Lev16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

Lev16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Now let us compare these verses:

Heb9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Both goats and the fit man are pictures Christ's work upon the cross!
---trey on 3/22/14


\\Jesus episode of God sounds like modalism\\

It does at first glance, but it's also possible that faithforfaith doesn't know the proper theological terminology.

That's why I asked for "episode of God" to be explained.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/22/14


Jesus episode of God sounds like modalism.

Jesus being the scapegoat is ridiculous. Jesus is Azazel?
---aka on 3/22/14


"That ole Devil made me do it," didn't work in Eden and it won't work at the Last Judgement.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/22/14


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It would be good for all those commenting on this blog to read the scriptures on this topic.

Leviticus 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat. . And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

Leviticus 16:21,22. And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and CONFESS OVER HIM ALL THE INIQUITIES of the children of Israel, ................... and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: And the goat shall BEAR UPON HIM ALL THEIR INIQUITIES unto a land not inhabited:

Are both goats for the Lord?
---therese on 3/22/14


Cluny: Who do you think is responsible for the world's sin?



---jerry6593 on 3/22/14


2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

If satan was the scapegoat, then satan is who also gave you the righteousness of God. WRONG!

Jesus clearly had our sin placed on Him, died and rose again for our justification. Romans 6 tells us how sin is banished...
---kathr4453 on 3/22/14


Today in the JESUS DISPENSATION (the Jesus 'episode' of GOD), satan (scapegoat) has BEEN DESTROYED (for the faithful worshipers of God) and is NO LONGER the source of evil/wrong doing (WE the individual are)./////

This is a total lie. Jesus was tested in the wilderness by satan, and Hebrews states that was also done to be an example for us NOW who at the Jesus episode time???LOL, who are also being tested. James talks about job as well! where we see job was tested by satan. The Apostles cast out demons AFTER Jesus rose from the dead. Satan today can turn himself into an angel of f light and preacher of righteousness, RIGHT NOW in the Jesus episode time. LOL.

Is this the SDA's understanding of satan? No wonder.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/14


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Today in the JESUS DISPENSATION (the Jesus 'episode' of GOD), satan (scapegoat) has BEEN DESTROYED (for the faithful worshipers of God) and is NO LONGER the source of evil/wrong doing (WE the individual are)./////

This is a total lie. Jesus was tested in the wilderness by satan, and Hebrews states that was also done to be an example for us NOW who at the Jesus episode time???LOL, who are also being tested. James talks about job as well! where we see job was tested by satan. The Apostles cast out demons AFTER Jesus rose from the dead. Satan today can turn himself into an angel of f light and preacher of righteousness, RIGHT NOW in the Jesus episode time. LOL.

Is this the SDA's understanding of satan? No wonder.
---kathr445 on 3/22/14


Why is there always discussion of lev 16 like there was only one goat?

There were two goats and the parallel (shadows of things to come) is unmistakable. They were both for Aaron's atonement to the lord. Atonement simply means reconciliation.

One was a blood sacrifice so that Aaron could approach the mercy seat. The other was responsible for shouldering the sin of the people that he brought in the first place.

Now since jesus made the ultimate blood sacrifice that paid the wages of sin and overcame death, we can boldly approach the seat of mercy (Heb 4:16) unlike aaron.

Notice the live goat did not "take away" sin but shouldered the sins and was released in the wilderness by a fit man.
---aka on 3/22/14


The Jews/Hebrews/Israelites only had JEHOVAH THE CREATOR to worship, we JESUS WORSHIPERS have ALSO MESSIAH/"Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6) AND ALSO the eternal Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14). I explained the JESUS DISPENSATION as an "episode" to make it easier to understand. Jesus performed "forgiveness" as the "Messiah"/Prince of Peace/lamb of God...AND THEN gave us the Holy Spirit (God's spirit of perfection).

These are the TWO things that Jesus did. He did'nt simply provide PURIFICATION of the FLESH on the cross, He gave us His SPIRIT to learn from. The Jews had NEITHER "MESSIAH" nor did they have ETERNAL HOLY SPIRIT (JESUS gave us GOD IN COMPLETION/ENTIRETY (the Jews only had PARTIAL God).
---faithforfaith on 3/22/14


\\(the Jesus 'episode' of GOD\\

What does this mean? Do you have any idea?

God doesn't have episodes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/21/14


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Today in the JESUS DISPENSATION (the Jesus 'episode' of GOD), satan (scapegoat) has BEEN DESTROYED (for the faithful worshipers of God) and is NO LONGER the source of evil/wrong doing (WE the individual are).

Hebrews 2:14
"Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil".

We are supposed to have "His Spirit in the inner man".

Now you know what restraions the 'evilness' in this world (His Spirit in the inner man restrains the evil side of me, 2 Thess. 2:6).

Now we are to live the PERFECT law (James 1:25) or else we are LAWLESS ONES.
---faithforfaith on 3/21/14


Satan can no longer be used as our excuse for evil/wrongdoing.

WE (Spirit-filled Jesus worshipers) are the source of GOODNESS, but people who only "believe" (instead of offer Spirit-filled "WORSHIP") are the source for evil/wrong.

Satan can no longer be humanity's SCAPEGOAT (we can no longer blame satan for the evil in this world, we Spirit-filled worshipers will accept our responsibility for the evil we cause).
---faithforfaith on 3/21/14


The scape goat and the fit man represent Christ.

Scape Goat and the Fit Man:
2Cor5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ps40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Ps40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

If we read the scriptures and do not see Christ we need to adjust our focus.
---trey on 3/21/14


Your explanation of it Cluny?
---therese on 3/21/14


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Cluny: Who do you think is responsible for the world's sin?



---jerry6593 on 3/21/14


I have always viewed the scapegoat as a repentance aspect to forgiveness. It is an image of the sin leaving and separating from the presence of God. The sacrificed animal is still located in the tabernacle/temple. Thus the sin has been washed but with repentance we take off the old self and put on the new God made self.
---Scott1 on 3/21/14


Is there an SDA lurking behind this question? They think that the sins of mankind will be laid upon Satan at the Last Judgement.
---Cluny on 3/20/14


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