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Christian Traditions

There is much prejudice against certain denominations that following traditions but is all tradition really bad? Thessalonians 2:15 commands us to observe those traditions established by the Apostles. One such tradition that does not nullify God's word is our communal worship on the Lord's day.

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 ---e.lee7537 on 4/2/14
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Jerry,

So if you were hiding Jews 80 years ago in Germany and the SS knocked on your door you would not lie and say, "Yes, there is a family of Jews out back. I cannot lie. Go get them."?

And if a Jew asked you for protection you would refuse him help and say, "Sorry, but I must obey the law of my government because it is an instrument of God."?

Can't wait to hear you answer....honestly.
---Marc on 4/28/14


In the days before the printing press, very few people had Bibles or any other books, as they all had to be copied by hand and were expensive.

Besides, few people could read. Cluny

True after the fall of the Roman empire in the East few could read latin. Also Bibles were expensive. But the Bibles were kept in Latin which when read in church meant nothing to most of the People. The RCC made it against the law to translate the Bible into the common language punishable by death.

I am less familiar with what happened after the fall of Constantinople. But I know a Missionary was put in Jail for handing a young man a Bible in 1981 in Greece.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/28/14


Mar 3:4

And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

As you read this and other passages. JESUS tells us to do good on the Sabbath.

Paul uses the term Under the Law to mean under condemnation. Being under Grace we are in a saving relationship with JESUS. But that is not a right to sin.


Rom 6:14,15

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

JESUS worshipped on Sabbath. Luke 4:16
---Samuelbb7 on 4/28/14


(Romans 2:10) glory, honor and peace to every man who works good.

Marc
To build on what you have said, to do what Paul says here in (Romans), one may have to break the Sabbath law, as Jesus did, when that law impedes our ability to do good.
---David on 4/28/14


Marc: "The Law is a hierarchy: some are more important than others"

The Bible disagrees:

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


---jerry6593 on 4/28/14




Jerry wrote, "They violated the "tradition" of the Pharisees".

The text doesn't say that. However, Mark records that Jesus compares the disciples' action with David's. David, as Jesus admits, broke the Law (Mark 2:26) but it was right because people's lives were at risk, thus demonstrating that there is a hierarchy in the commandments, as one Orthodox Jew pointed out to me and as common sense also dictates.

Strictly speaking, the disciples did work on the Sabbath - they harvested food - but Jesus taught 2 things: there's an important precedence in Jewish history and there is a hierarchy of importance.
---Marc on 4/27/14


Marc
You have an interesting perspective I have not considered.
Jesus broke the letter of the Law as the Pharisee's saw it, but that was not the reason God created the Sabbath Law.

The Sabbath Law was created because man needed a day of rest, it was not a Law designed to condemn man for doing evil, as the other laws were.

Marc,
Do you know when God made the Sabbath, a Law, which commands us to go to church and worship, rather than a day to stay at home and rest?
---David on 4/27/14


Marc: "The disciples gathered grain because they were hungry."

That was not a violation of the 4th Commandment (see Exo 20:8-11). They violated the "tradition" of the Pharisees - a man-made corruption of God's eternal Ten Commandment Law. Incidentally, Sunday sacredness is a man-made corruption of God's eternal Ten Commandment Law.



---jerry6593 on 4/27/14


Can a man lie and not be a sinner? Of course! For example, someone lies to the Nazis about a Jew they've secreted away on their property because loving your neighbour is more important.

Can someone break the Sabbath law and not be a sinner? Of course. The disciples gathered grain because they were hungry.

Man is not made for the Sabbath.

The Law is a hierarchy: some are more important than others, with the most important and inviolable being to love the Lord.
---Marc on 4/26/14


Yes we are not under law.-Samuelbb7 on 4/22/14

Samuel
You say we are not under Law, but also say we must keep the Sabbath. Why?
That's like telling someone there is no speed limit, and then giving them a ticket for exceeding the speed limit.

If you are not under Law, why would God put his Law into your mind and write them on your heart, like he wrote the Law of Moses on the stone tablets?

If those Laws written on the stone tablets put the Jews under Gods Law, why are you and I not under those Laws he writes on our hearts?
---David on 4/26/14




Is John wrong too? David

No. John is giving the reasons they gave. Before the Death of JESUS everyone accepts that JESUS was:
Gal 4:4

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

So if you are saying that JESUS really did break the Sabbath you are calling Him a sinner.

The Pharisees put their traditions as not only equal but above the Bible. JESUS did not keep their traditions about the Sabbath.

Mat 15:9

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

JESUS broke their rules. Not the Law of GOD. HE is not a sinner.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/14


Yahushua (JESUS) never broke the Sabbath Law.
He broke the Pharisee's added regulations and interpretations of GOD's Sabbath Law.
Yahushua fulfilled the Sabbath Law perfectly,
and He showed us that it is to be lived out.
Picking an apple from a tree and rubbing heads of grain together are not laborious chores as was, say, gathering sticks for a fire.
---Gordon on 4/24/14


\\Latter the RCC and others took the Bible away from the people and would not let them read it\\

This is not true.

In the days before the printing press, very few people had Bibles or any other books, as they all had to be copied by hand and were expensive.

Besides, few people could read.

And who are these "others"?

Christ is risen.
---Cluny on 4/24/14


If gathering food on the Sabbath was a sin then JESUS would have been participating in a sin. As you and the Pharisees are saying. You missed the whole passage in Exodus.-Samuel

(John 5:18)
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.


Samuel
John gives us the two reasons they wanted to kill Jesus.
One of those reasons was because he broke the Sabbath Law.
Notice it does not say they believed, but that he broke the Sabbath.

Is John wrong too?
---David on 4/24/14


Samuel you just described the Word of God that won't die. It even survived without a printing press. I thank God for the printing press.
---shira4368 on 4/23/14


Before the invention of the printing press, the study of scripture was not even possible for the vast majority of believer's.
How did they learn the Lords commandments, if not through the guidance of the Holy Spirit? David

For the Jewish believers it was easy. They read the Bible every year in Church.
For those in the Early Church they used the Septuagint and most Romans could get the Scrolls. They also read the scriptures to the people in the church. So yes it was more group read.

Latter the RCC and others took the Bible away from the people and would not let them read it. Which lasted until the Protestant movement restored the Bible to all. About the same time the Printing press helped.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/23/14


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//Luke .. nowhere are we told we are under the Law. Jesus is our Sabbath. We are under the Spirit of the law.//

Your correct if you are talking about believers. Nowhere are we told believers are under the Law. But the ungodly/the lost, they are under the law, if they break one they have broken them all. They are under condemnation for breaking the law.
Believers in Christ are not under condemnation. Their sins were forgiven at the cross by Christ. He kept the whole law perfect for every child of God. That is why believers are under the Spirit of the Law.
I see the burden you carry. It's ok to have Saturday Sabbath, only if you do not make it a law. Once it becomes a law, you are under the law not under the Spirit of the Law. Agape
---Luke on 4/23/14


I believe you will find that First John agrees with Paul. Also read First Peter-- Samuel

Samuel
I have never said they didn't agree with Paul.
They just don't agree with what you believe Paul taught.

It is not a contradiction. Paul is saying to be justified by the law you must keep it but you cannot. -Samuelbb7 on 4/21/14

Samuel
That's not what (1 John 3:9-10)KJV says about the identification of the Sons of God.
---David on 4/23/14


Dear David

If gathering food on the Sabbath was a sin then JESUS would have been participating in a sin. As you and the Pharisees are saying. You missed the whole passage in Exodus.

The Israelites were gathering Manna.
Exo 16:26-28

Six days ye shall gather it, but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.

And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

The Apostles were not gathering manna.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/23/14


Samuel
The law forbade the gathering of food on the Sabbath. God considered the gathering of food, work, in (Exodus 17). And that's exactly what the Lords disciples were doing, when they were accused of breaking the Sabbath Law in (Luke 6).

Since the gathering of food on the Sabbath was a violation of Sabbath Law, I ask again, Why would the Lord allow his disciple's to break this Law, if this Law was not changed under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ?
---David on 4/22/14


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GOD s commandments are put in our minds through our study of scripture. Samuel

Samuel
How did the Gentiles in (Romans 2:14-15) know the law? It was not through the study of scripture.

Before the invention of the printing press, the study of scripture was not even possible for the vast majority of believer's.
How did they learn the Lords commandments, if not through the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
---David on 4/22/14


Luke .... nowhere are we told we are under the Law. Jesus is our Sabbath. We are under the Spirit of the law.

You are missing some important points. Yes we are not under law. But the Law tells us what sins are.

1Jo 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You also make it sound like loving GOD and keeping the commandments of love is wrong.

1Jo 5:3

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

So explain to me how the Seventh day of the week set aside to spend time with Family and GOD is Jesus? Also when you break the letter are not also disobeying the spirit of the law.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/14


Dear David

I believe you will find that First John agrees with Paul.

Also read First Peter. They both talk about what we as Christians who love GOD are to do and that it is because we are children of GOD.

Please let me know what you think.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/14


Please check the context of the verse.--Samuel

Samuel
It's not a verse, it's an entire chapter,(Romans 2).
Can you show me another writer in the Bible, another witness, who teaches what you say Paul taught?
---David on 4/22/14


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// We keep the laws of GOD because We Love GOD and Love our neighbors. All of the Ten Commandments and many others from both the Old and New Testament are about love. Wesley and others called them all the Moral laws of the Bible.//

We, as Christians, are being change everyday, by the Holy Spirit. He is the One working in us to be more Christ like. It is the love of God in the believer that motives him to do what is right. There is no more laws that burden the new believer in Christ since He has Christ who guides him. We are to love God and our neighbors, but nowhere are we told we are under the Law. Jesus is our Sabbath. We are under the Spirit of the law. Always will be.
---Luke on 4/21/14


David on last three posts.
The Sabbath shows love for GOD. Like spending a day with your parents show love. It shows love for people by not asking them to work that day and spending time in worship with your family and others. It gives the time to study.
It is not a contradiction. Paul is saying to be justified by the law you must keep it but you cannot. So that is why we all need JESUS. It is also pointing out to Jews that they are hypocrites for not doing what they say to do. Please check the context of the verse. JESUS CHRIST gave all the laws. He is GOD.
GOD s commandments are put in our minds through our study of scripture. If Romans 3 is about the Law of Moses, then the Law of Moses is established. Romans 3:31
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/14


Dear Luke on 4/20/14 I am glad we agree. We are saved by JESUS CHRIST through Grace. The purpose of the law is to show us what is right for us to do.

Yes all are sins were paid for at the Cross. 4/21/14 We keep the laws of GOD because We Love GOD and Love our neighbors. All of the Ten Commandments and many others from both the Old and New Testament are about love. Wesley and others called them all the Moral laws of the Bible.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/21/14


Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


---jerry6593 on 4/21/14


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"Thessalonians 2:15 commands us to observe those traditions established by the Apostles."


Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,


Do YOU follow the manner (tradition) of Paul by keeping the Sabbath day?



---jerry6593 on 4/21/14


//We gain access to Heaven by keeping the Law of Christ (Romans 2:6-7).//

The passage is not speaking about how sinners can get access to heaven by keeping the Law of Christ. Christ is not mentioned there. The passage is speaking of condemnation.
"But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God. Who will render to each one according to his deeds."
Those who have hardened their hearts, will be judge by the sins they have committed.
Believers in Christ has already been forgiven at the Cross.
---Luke on 4/21/14


And the Law of Christ is what exactly? --Marc

Marc
The Law of Christ are those commands given to us through Gods Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus gave them to his apostles in (Acts 1:2)KJV.

How will we receive these commands?
"I will put my commandments into their minds and write them on their hearts."

What will those commandments be?
We are led by Gods Holy Spirit to do what is right in the eyes of God, to do what is Righteous.

It is not right for us to sin. (Love God)
It is right to render aid to those in need.(Love your neighbor)
The Holy Spirit will lead us in both of these areas.(John 16:7-15)
---David on 4/21/14


There is one case in Acts (Acts 15) where there were some debates, and this led to what is now know as the Council of Jerusalem.

A number of the things we debate about not (like the Sabbath) were not mentioned, which I assume means that people could decide what they wanted to do - as long as they did not argue with others.

Only four things were banned: idols, unchastity, what is strangled and blood

That started from the question of circumcision (Acts 15:1-2).
---Peter on 4/20/14


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And the Law of Christ is what exactly?
---Marc on 4/20/14


//We gain access to Heaven by keeping the Law of Christ (Romans 2:6-7).
Why would it be called the Law of Christ, if we didn't have to keep it?
A Law is something we must keep, or we are in violation of that Law.//


The law is something no one can keep. If, and I say "if" someone could they would be justified. But it is not possible, for no one can keep the whole law. The law was not made to save anyone, it was for obedience, to bring others to Christ, to show us what sin is. Anyone trying to keep the law to gain salvation is very much mistaken. Everyone needs Christ perfect works for salvation and that only comes when a sinner is saved by Grace through faith in Christ Jesus perfect works. Agape
---Luke on 4/20/14


And what law was he talking about? ---Marc

Marc
Have you ever noticed the obvious contradiction in what Paul wrote in (Romans 2:13)KJV & (Romans 3:20)?

In (Romans 2:13) he says, those who keep the Law will be justified, and in (Romans 3:20) he says, no man shall be justified by keeping the Law.

Why?
It's because in (Romans 2) he was teaching about the Law of Christ, and in (Romans 3) he was teaching about the Law of Moses.

We gain access to Heaven by keeping the Law of Christ (Romans 2:6-7).
Why would it be called the Law of Christ, if we didn't have to keep it?
A Law is something we must keep, or we are in violation of that Law.
---David on 4/19/14


Dear Samuel,
you are not considering that, those who are saved by the grace of God, are carried along by the Spirit of God unto good works.
"For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" Eph. 2:19. The believer is not along trying to keep the laws because he is unable of himself to keep them all.
When you speak of keeping the Saturday Sabbath as a law, you don't mind. But what about keeping all the other laws? You cannot. No one can. And to remind others they are breaking the law if they don't keep the Sabbath, you forget all of the Seventh Day Adventist are yet sinners themselves breaking other laws. No one has been perfected. Agape
---Luke on 4/19/14


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Samuel, the law in Romans 2 is the moral law of conscience. The conscience knows right from wrong. So total depravity is false based on Romans 2. Romans 3 bring in the law of Moses. Romans 4 the law of faith. Romans 4 also stating the law of faith came before the law of Moses and the law of Moses did not annul the law of faith. Faith in what you may ask, since Abraham was not led by any schoolmaster of the law of Moses. Faith in the promised redeemer, promised in Genesis 3. The one Abel put his faith in. But without the Law pointing to Christ, anyone could claim to be the messiah. The law shows sin, and judgement upon sin. The Law never showed anyone could be saved by the Law.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/14


Why are they not all to be treated equally? Samuel

Samuel
The Law of Christ is to love God and to love your neighbor.
The Sabbath law shows our love for neither.

The Sabbath Law was created for man, man was not created for the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27)
This is why Jesus said, "The son of man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Aren't you and I the Son of man?
---David on 4/18/14


If some of these here wrote what they did in a philosophy paper I would have marked them down for having addressed me rather what Paul said in Galatians. Also for jumping to conclusions that I am promoting some sort of antinomianism.

You guys who jump far too quickly should explain Paul's saying to the Galatians that the Law was a strict schoolmaster until the coming of Christ. What did he mean? And what law was he talking about? It's to Paul not to me you should be discussing this.
---Marc on 4/18/14


Samuel
That's a good question, and my answer is to your question is no.

Marc
Are you not commanded to repent, to turn from sin?
How can you turn from sin if you do not keep the Law?

David

I agree with your answers David and I am glad that you feel you should obey some of the first four Commandments. Why are they not all to be treated equally?

Samuel
---Samuelbb7 on 4/18/14


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Samuel
That's a good question, and my answer is to your question is no.

Marc
(1John 3:4)KJV says "Sin is the transgression of the Law"
Are you not commanded to repent, to turn from sin?
How can you turn from sin if you do not keep the Law?
---David on 4/18/14


e.lee. We are told not to forsake our communal worship. Unless there is very good reason we should meet together with like-minded people - regularly. It is good for our soul and good for our physical health also. People need people, it's as simple as that and the people we need most are those with whom we share the most.

I get into no arguments over which day of the week that should be. Our main worship is Sunday but we have other fellowship on Mon. Wed. and Thurs. for those who choose to join us.

Those meetings are less formal and attended by many who do not come Sundays. The love and fellowship they receive will (we pray) lead them to yearn for more and, eventually, result in them attending the formal worship.
---Rita_H on 4/18/14


// The 4th commandment is given to man like JESUS said. Mark 2:27//

Dear Samuel,
You did not interpret the passage correctly. God instituted the Sabbath to benefit man by giving him a day to rest from his labors and to be a blessing to him. The Pharisees turned it into a burden and made man a slave to their myriad of man made regulations. And what are you doing? The very same thing. Slaves to the law.
In the passage Jesus was claiming He was greater than the Sabbath, and thus was God. Based on that Authority, Jesus could in fact reject the Pharisaic regulations concerning the Sabbath and restore God's original intention for the Sabbath observance to be a blessing not a burden. That is why Jesus worked on the Sabbath. Agape
---Luke on 4/18/14


The Pharisees spoke against Jesus for not keeping their man-made changes to the Sabbath Law contained in Exo 20:8-11. Jesus said:

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Sunday sanctification is a man-made change to God's Sabbath Law. Therefore, Jesus calls it vain worship.



---jerry6593 on 4/18/14


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Marc

Are saying non-jews are not sinners? The law judges all. Romans 2, 3.
Rom 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Were not the people condemned for breaking the law of GOD in Genesis?

But you actually use a verse Galatians that says the Law brings us to JESUS. How could the law bring us to JESUS if it does not apply to us? Being under the law means we are under Condemnation.
You accept JESUS and then you can throw out the Law. Is it okay to worship idols, use the name of GOD in vain, and worship other gods? Read Romans 5,6 & 7.

Look up John Wesleys Sermons on the Ten Commandments.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/18/14


Can anyone tell me precisely the date the 10 commandments were given to non-Jews?

Also,

"O you idiot Galatians...Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." (Galatians 3:1,24-25)
---Marc on 4/17/14


First David no one suggest the Sabbath law was done away with till after the Crucifixion. So it could not have been done away then. Second JESUS answered in his way the accusers. They were breaking a tradition not the 4th commandment. So JESUS
reminded them who he was.

Mat 19:18,19 Contain the last 6 of the Ten Commandments and Leviticus 19:18

Are you suggesting that all of the first four of the ten commandments are to be actively disobeyed?

The Jews tended to ignore the last six. As many do today. So he often emphasized them.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/14


Dearest Luke.
You didn't answer my question.

The 4th commandment is given to man like JESUS said. Mark 2:27

We are not under a Theocracy. Is it wrong to commit adultery? Do you execute them? Same thing.

So you don't keep the fourth Commandment because you are once saved always saved? How does that work for 7th day Baptists.

I have missed church for many reasons. GOD does not demand we go to church on Sabbath. Please read the fourth Commandment in Exodus 20.

My Stance is easy we should treat all of the Ten Commandments equally. Would you be arguing against keeping any of the other Ten Commandments? Go to Exodus 20 and read them. Tell me which other one is to be disobeyed and is a sin to keep.
agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/17/14


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Samuel
If the Sabbath Law is still in effect, under the Law of Christ, why did Jesus allow his disciples to break the Sabbath Law in (Matthew 12)?

Also, if the Sabbath Law is important to our Salvation, why didn't Jesus give the man in (Matthew 19:16-19) this commandment, when he asked him, "What must I do to have Eternal Life?"
---David on 4/17/14


Marc: "I suspect some here are using 'law' quite loosely, others more limitedly."

Most Christians haven't a clue as to what Paul means when he speaks of the "Law". As a Pharisee of the highest order, he understood that the term is defined by the context in which it is used. It can mean anything from the Nation of Israel, to the writings of Moses, to the Ten Commandments, to the sacrificial system, or even to the principle that links sin to death. But, most use it as tool to justify their own preconceived theories - even if such theories contradict the very words of Christ.


---jerry6593 on 4/17/14


//I agree with the second. My question, is why do you not keep the 4th Commandment?//

I see why you speak for the law. You are not going forward because you observe the 4th commandment given to Israel who are under condemnation. Yet do not follow the consequences of breaking that commandment. I haven't heard of any Seventh Day Adventist being put to death for breaking the law.
Second you believe you can leave Jesus, how's that possible since Jesus said He will never leave you nor forsake you, Never?
There is condemnation under the law. If an Adventist is sick and cannot attend church, who makes the decision whether he lives or die? Do they wait to see if God strikes him dead? I just do not understand your stance, Agape
---Luke on 4/17/14


I suspect some here are using 'law' quite loosely, others more limitedly.

People also have a conscience. For example, Paul writes, "for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them." (Romans 2:14,15)
---Marc on 4/16/14


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Dear Luke

You put your answer in two paragraphs. Thanks.

I agree with the second. My question, is why do you not keep the 4th Commandment?

The First is a misunderstanding. A person is not as you put it saved then lost back an forth. That is a common thought on what we teach. I am Married. So when I have problems does not make me divorced. The same is true of Christians. We have problems but we are not lost. We have a savior. 1stJohn2.

On the other hand I cannot agree with OSAS. Seventh day Adventist have a strong Methodist foundation. Yet we also respect much of Calvin.

We just believe a person can choose to leave JESUS. For example a person refuses to forgive others and never forgives anyone.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/16/14


Dear Samuel,
You have the wrong view of our salvation. Believers in Christ have been forgiven. There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Never again.
What you are saying is that if a believer who has been bought by Christ sins, after been saved, he can be lost again. And if he repents he can be bought again, and again. A sinner cannot be bought many times.
I believe in the Ten Commandments also. The law does not change. But it can never condemn a believer who has been bought by Christ. We could never keep the whole law perfect even now. Our faith is in Christ not in ourselves. If we could keep the whole law, we would not need Christ to keep it for us.
Agape
---Luke on 4/16/14


Yes Luke on most of what you say is true. But we also sin. So the law tells us we are sinning and what is a sin.

Not because I say so. But GOD says so. Read Matthew 5.


1Jo 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

In order for us to commit sin the law has to be here.

Read Romans 6,7, & 8

Both Calvin and Luther proclaim that the Ten Commandments are still in effect for Christians. Were they both wrong?

Read John Wesley's sermons on the Ten Commandments.

Pray and read the Bible. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/15/14


//Because the purpose of the Law is to define sin. To lead us to JESUS. Then tell us what not to do.
Galations 3:24 First John. 2,3//

Dear Samuel, you are already born of the Spirit as a believer, and you say, 'to lead us to Jesus, but we already belong to Jesus as believers. Those born of the Spirit are already one body in Christ. All sins have been forgiven. If they were not, then every time you sin, you would die spiritually. And we can never die again. There is only "one spiritual birth" not many. Jesus Christ bought us.
The Law not only condemns the lost, for they have broken the law, but it shows them their sin and leads them to Jesus. Not us. Agape
---Luke on 4/15/14


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The breaking of bread was communion, remembering Christ's sacrifice (1 Cor. 10:16).
Paul wanted the Corinthians to begin collections on the "week's first day" (1 Cor. 16:2). Isn't this Sunday? Let's think Jewish day. Take Acts 20:7 your way i.e. after 6 pm on Saturday night. Therefore, by Jewish reckoning, it's Sunday, the week's first, because it's Saturday evening, after Shabbath ended.

Alternatively, take days how we calibrate and the incident happening after Saturday 6pm. Therefore, it would not be the week's first but the last. This would contradict Paul's saying it happened on the first day.

No big deal, Jerry...just food for thought.
---Marc on 4/14/14


"Do you not believe our sins were taken care of at the Cross?" Luke

Yes. But we have a High Priest in heaven who applies that blood. So future sins not covered till confessed.
Hebrews 4,5,9


That we are not under condemnation by the law? Luke.

A person in Christ JESUS is not under condemnation. But a person in JESUS lives to be like JESUS. Romans 8


If so, why do you argue for the law? Luke

Because the purpose of the Law is to define sin. To lead us to JESUS. Then tell us what not to do.
Galations 3:24 First John. 2,3
agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/14/14


Marc: "Why were they breaking bread on the first day of the week?"

Are you serious? They (like you and me) broke bread every day of the week - BECAUSE THEY WERE HUNGRY!

The meeting of Acts 20:7-12 was on a Saturday night and lasted until midnight, with Paul going on a trip Sunday morning. Is this the way you worship?

I challenge you to find a scripture that names the first day as the "new Sabbath" and explains why Jesus, Paul and all the Jewish and Gentile Christians of the Bible kept the Seventh-day Sabbath exclusively instead.



---jerry6593 on 4/14/14


Dear Samuel,
You mentioned something to me about the conduct of believers on another blog, the application of an interpretation.
I am sure you are born of the Spirit, and so saved. So my question to you is,
"Do you not believe our sins were taken care of at the Cross?" That we are not under condemnation by the law?
If so, why do you argue for the law? Is it because you believe that those under the New Covenant are doing whatever they want? I just don't get it.
Faith establishes the law by providing a payment for the penalty of death which the law required for failing to keep it. What do you teach? Agape.
---Luke on 4/14/14


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Jerry,

"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread" (Acts 20:7).

Why were they breaking bread on the first day of the week?
---Marc on 4/13/14


Wow Cluny I have been a Seventh day Adventist for over forty years and have taken College Classes in Our Church history and I have read many books on our church history and have never heard that taught by us before.

When and where did we teach this?

The Roman Empire had seven days in a Week. Named after planets and gods.

Sunday after the Sunday
Monday after the moon.
Mars day after Mars.
Mercury's day after guess who?
Jupiter's day
Venus's day
Saturns day which we now call Saturday.

As you see from the Roman empire we inherited the names of three days of the week.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/13/14


Nor have they come into an understanding of the purpose of the law. Ever read Galatians 3:24f? elee7537

You did not comment on the Sunday law from Constantine.

Yes I have read and preached and taught on this passage. The Job of the law is to tell us we are sinners. If it were done away with it could not be our schoolmaster to tell us we are sinners and what sin is. Paul writes the Law is established by Faith. Romans 3:31. Also read Romans 6-8 for further telling what the law is for. You are correct it is not to save us and we do not teach it is. It is to define sin.

1John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/13/14


Contrary to SDA propganda, the Graeco-Roman pagans did NOT worship the sun on Sunday and the moon on Monday, et c.

Their division of time was NOT the 7 day week, but rather the month and year, with certain days of the month and year having religious significance.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/13/14


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Lee: "the early fathers were wrong as they all viewed the Lords day as the day of resurrection - something Adventism does not celebrate - correct?"

All correct!

The Bible - the ONLY source of religious authority - clearly states that the Seventh-day Sabbath - not Sunday - is the Lord's Day (cf Mat 12:8). No scripture identifies Sunday as such. We do celebrate the Resurrection in the ONLY way prescribed in the Bible - by full-immersion baptism (Rom 6:3-5). I challenge you to produce a single scripture identifying the first day of the week as the Lord's Day or one commanding its observance in honor of the resurrection.

The "early fathers" were wrong because they deny the truth of the Bible.

---jerry6593 on 4/13/14


//Just to clarify, Sunday is NOT the Lord's Day - Sabbath is. The Apostles did not institute Sunday, pagan-loving apostates did that after the Apostles had all died.
****
Then if you truly want desperately to believe that, then we would have to conclude that the early fathers were wrong as they all viewed the Lords day as the day of resurrection - something Adventism does not celebrate - correct?

You do not have any support for your claims outside the Adventism denomination and sorry but you guys have not been given any special revelation not given already to His church. Jude 3
---elee7537 on 4/12/14


Lee: I see you haven't changed a bit.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Just to clarify, Sunday is NOT the Lord's Day - Sabbath is. The Apostles did not institute Sunday, pagan-loving apostates did that after the Apostles had all died.

The New Covenant is evidenced by THE LAW written on the heart. Is God's Law written on your heart?



---jerry6593 on 4/12/14


//The First Covenant was written on Stone. The New in our hearts.
Heb 8:10

While that is true, God did not overlaid the Old Covenant onto the New. If you would read Hebrews 8:9 or Jeremiah 31:13 you should easily see that the New Covenant was to be unlike the Old.

And that is clearly where Adventism had fouled up, they simply cannot employ proper exegetics of Scripture. They think selected OT law not in the New Covenant are also binding on the church.

Nor have they come into an understanding of the purpose of the law. Ever read Galatians 3:24f? Suggest you read it otherwise you will continue to believe the observance of the law is required for your salvation.
---elee7537 on 4/11/14


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Dear Elle History Lesson.

"Let all judges and all city people and all tradesmen rest upon the venerable day of the sun. " March 7, 321 AD Crispus & Constantine

Please read history on this topic. Your first point is incorrect.

The First Covenant was written on Stone. The New in our hearts.
Heb 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts...

DEUT. 4:13

And he declared unto you his covenant,... even ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Read Roman 3,31 and tell me is it okay to take GOD's name in Vain since that law is gone?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/11/14


Yes, Sunday became viewed by many as the Christian Sabbath early in the first or second century, but we find virtually nothing in the New Covenant that mandates its observance.

Originally the Sabbath in Old Testament times was strictly a day of rest from labor, not of worship.

Sabbatherians today do not observe the Sabbath as originally commanded but it is by their tradition that they observe Saturday thinking that they observe it according to the Decalogue commandment. Sabbatherians totally ignore what was commanded on how the Sabbath was to be observed.
---elee7537 on 4/11/14


Samuelbb7 - true that many churches do not observe Sunday as a Sabbath as there is virtually no scriptural nor traditional basic for it.

While it true that Sunday is often viewed as a day of communal worship, it is really a day of rest from labor that is where recreation would fit in.

The Christian life is not the keeping of days, months, years and other facets of the old Covenant dispensation as Christ instituted a covenant not based on the Mosaic law of which the Sabbath is but one of the 600+ laws found in the Old testament.
---elee7537 on 4/10/14


All of the first three comments have been great and very good. How often to have communion, church government can be okay since there is no scripture about these and other topics.

My problem with the last part of the topic. You see the LORD's day that belongs to him is the Seventh day Sabbath. Or in U.S. calendars Saturday.

Many churches have a church service on Sunday. But then the rest of the day is dedicated to games or pleasure. But not to GOD. So very few if any keep any day as GOD's day.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/7/14


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"is all tradition really bad?" No. It is only when those traditions "transgress the commandment of God" and make "the commandment of none effect," or men are "laying aside the commandment of God, [to] hold the tradition of men," that those traditions would be considered "bad". Mat 15:3,6>Mar 7:8
---josef on 4/6/14


Can you give us a few examples of where tradition supersedes scripture in the church today?

Are there some OT laws not mandated in the NT that have been superseded by tradition (OT Holy days for instance)?
---elee7537 on 4/6/14


Following Gods traditions aren't bad. its when we get church traditions, man made mixed up with Gods word.
---candice on 4/5/14


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