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Do Weak Christians Judge

"it is the weak Christians that must have the security of the law, it is the weak Christians who are prone to judge and criticize stronger believers and to stumble over what they do." (Wiersbe commentary on 1 Corinthians).

Do you agree or disagree with these statements and why?

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Haz27 on 5/24/14

Well in a way you say you do not hate the law. But you never actually used the words. We do not add to Grace since that is not possible.
We just say love works. When a person refuses to forgive another and never forgives they are lost. There is no single point or standard. If GOD convicts me of a sin, then I refuse to follow GOD and instead tell GOD I am not willing to take up my cross and follow JESUS I am not saved.
Keeping the law does not bring righteousness. As I have pointed out many times so why do you keep saying this lie? Luke 12:37, 17:10, and Luke 19. Those who are saved live in JESUS.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/26/14


Those who say they love GOD and hate others no matter how much they confess are false followers.
If you continue to say that because I believe GOD requires us to obey GOD that I am lost. Then you need to tell John Wesley, and Martin Luther they are lost also. You will need to tell all those who are not Calvinist they are lost. Because only Calvinist teach once saved always saved.

We do not give some standard because only GOD knows the heart. We cannot judge another person and declare them lost.

You seem to demand millions are lost because they do not agree with you. But being Judgmental like that is a sign of being lost.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/26/14


Dear Ruben,
"for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
both to will and to work for His good pleasure, tells us that God is working in us to complete what He started. We are not alone, God is working in us. Agape
---Luke on 5/25/14

Why the more reason Paul tells them to " work out your salavation with fear and trembling" and to "Do all things without grumbling or questioning, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain."
---Ruben on 5/26/14


The point at which you grieve away the Holy Spirit by refusing to repent of known sins.--jerry6593

Jerry, your answer confirms my point. SDA's preach that some unspecified/ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law is required for one to enter into Heaven.

BTW, repentance was of dead works of self righteousness, Heb 6:1.

As SDA's still preach righteousness proved by works of law then this suggests they still may not have repented of their dead works (which is unbelief/sin, John 16:9).

Hence I do agree in this regard that if we refuse to repent of our dead works of righteousness by deeds of the law then you'll be lost.

Also, thanks Luke for your point.
---Haz27 on 5/26/14


My pastor preached about that not long ago. No one knows when the line crosses where God won't deal with us. There is a sin into death. the bible don't say what that sin is. I could go deeper. I'll just stop here.
---shira4368 on 5/26/14




Haz: "I'm asking you what is that point where God refuses to forgive?"

The point at which you grieve away the Holy Spirit by refusing to repent of known sins.

I quoted your own words back to you. How is that misunderstanding them?



---jerry6593 on 5/26/14


//You, Samuel and Francis have all indicated that there is a point where God will no longer forgive failure to obey the law. I'm asking you what is that point where God refuses to forgive?//

Dear Haz,
Your question is a good one, but in the end of the sentence you should have said,
"I'm asking you what is that point where God refuses to forgive "believers"
Because God does not forgive unbelievers who are not chosen by Him. They remain condemned. Agape
---Luke on 5/26/14


Jerry, please read my post again as you seem to misunderstand it.

You said before that you do not obey the law perfectly.
But then you also suggested that we cannot go to Heaven if we continue to sin.

Hence my question as what is the minimum standard of obedience that is required under SDA doctrine.

Have you exceeded that minimum standard as you yourself have admitted to fail to obey perfectly?

You, Samuel and Francis have all indicated that there is a point where God will no longer forgive failure to obey the law. I'm asking you what is that point where God refuses to forgive?
---Haz27 on 5/25/14


//" work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.//

Dear Ruben,
the passage you gave is a real good passage, because it says, "for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
both to will and to work for His good pleasure, tells us that God is working in us to complete what He started. We are not alone, God is working in us. Agape
---Luke on 5/25/14


Haz: "unspecified/ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law."

You don't know what you are talking about. There is nothing "unspecified", "ambiguous", or even debatable about the Ten Commandments. What's ambiguous about "Thou shalt not kill"? What's unspecified in "Thou shalt not commit adultery"?

The only ambiguity arises in your own mind when you confuse grace (pardon for past sins) with license to commit future sins. Christ made it clear to the adulteress when He said "Neither do I condemn you, GO AND SIN NO MORE".

Paul's comment about not being under the law did not refer to the Ten Commandments.
---jerry6593 on 5/25/14




Samuel. We agree Christians love one another.
BUT SDA have deceived you by twisting this command to love one another to lure you under the law for righteousness by works.
SDA's preach judgement, condemnation under the law and hide this behind a facade about love.

I asked you to give details on what is the minimum standard of obedience to the law that is required. Clearly SDA's cannot answer this.

The gospel of grace is specific. Believe on Jesus.
BUT, SDA doctrine adds to grace a demand for some unspecified/ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law.

The thief on the cross met that standard. He believed on Jesus. Why do SDA's then mix works of the law with it? That thief didn't.
---Haz27 on 5/24/14


Samuel. I already said Christians see the law as holy, just, good, Rom 7:12. I suggest you avoid making unfounded allegations that if one rejects SDA doctrine of works then somehow that equates to hating the law.

As for your allegation of not loving, again that is unfounded. What you described of love by helping the physically needy, that is something even non-believers do. Hence you offer no distinction between the saved and lost with your claim.

Instead we see Christians go further in that we also preach the gospel to the lost, helping these spiritually needy, as described in Matt 25.

Christians love others, showing the same love/grace as God showed us. And we let our light shine, preaching Christ
---Haz27 on 5/24/14


being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ," Phil. 1:6.

---Luke on 5/24/14

Paul also warns the Philippians:

" work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or questioning, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain."
---Ruben on 5/24/14


Jerry, Samuel. Consider James 3. It warns if we preach error we face a stricter judgement.
Note the example it uses of error teaching. James 3:8-11
no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless (love) our God and Father, and with it we curse (judge/condemn under the law) men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water (love/grace) and bitter (judgement/condemnation) from the same opening?

We CANNOT MIX works of law with grace, Rom 11:6
That is to be LUKEWARM and God calls for such persons to repent, Rev 3:15-19
---Haz27 on 5/24/14


Dear Samuel, you say,
//Luke we do not believe Once Saved always saved because we do not believe in Predestination.//
Then say,
//Our security comes from JESUS CHRIST.//

How can you have security in Christ when you do not believe you have security in your salvation?
Then say,
//We believe GOD demands righteousness which we cannot give and so are saved by Grace.//
God does not demand righteousness on believers. Righteousness is imputed to us. He demands righteousness from unbelievers.
Then say,
// Why you hate the law of GOD? and give Rom 8:7,8//
the passage is speaking of those in the flesh, We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Those lost hate the Laws of God. Believers do not hate the law.
---Luke on 5/24/14


Samuel. You quoted scriptures in context of SDA doctrine that if one "sins" once too often then they're lost.

Francis likewise said "No, No, No!" to salvation for failure to obey the law.
Jerry likewise in this quote:
"Do you think that you can keep on sinning right into heaven?"

SDA doctrine of judgement, condemnation to anyone who fails to obey the law to some unspecified/ambiguous minimum standard, only discredits the SDA's.

God is not ambiguous regarding our salvation. Unless you can provide details from scripture then you should consider your earlier point that you face repercussions for preaching error.
---Haz27 on 5/24/14


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It is weak Christians who look for loopholes in the scriptures to justify their own sinful practices, while ignoring the very words of Christ to the contrary.

It is weak Christians who continually rail against stronger Christians for their desire to please God by obedience to His Law.

It is weak Christians who think that they are saved by their religious affiliation, while others are lost because of theirs.

It is weak Christians who hide behind multiple pseudonyms on CN - elee, maryg, etc.



---jerry6593 on 5/24/14


//Luke we do not believe Once Saved always saved because we do not believe in Predestination.//

You know predestination is in the word of God, yet you refuse to believe. When you refuse OSAS, you are saying you have no faith in God. We are told:
"..To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand" Romans 14:4. You reject that. The Bible also says,
"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ," Phil. 1:6.
You do not believe those words. The Holy Spirit brings assurance of our salvation, 1 Thess. 1:5. Have faith Samuel. He will finish what He started. Agape
---Luke on 5/24/14


Rom 13:10

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Gal 5:14

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Jas 2:8

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

When a person does not love and care for others they are breaking the law.

The Idea that John is not writing to Christians goes against what the whole book says. I do not understand why you hate the Law of GOD?

Do you not care and try to help people by feeding them and encouraging them?
---Samuelbb7 on 5/24/14


Samuel. You refer to James 1 alleging we look in a mirror/the law, see our face is dirty and not wash. That's error.

James 1 refers to those who accept the gospel but then forget that in Christ they're righteous and holy, as they then turn back to works of the law for righteousness.
Legalists who mix works with grace do this. They profess they're saved by grace but then mix the law with it by saying that without obedience to the law then your're unrighteous/lost (example: SDA doctrine).

And if you still insist that 1John 1:8 refers to Christians, what "sin" can we be charged with?
Is it transgression of law, 1John 3:4?
Is it unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9?
Is it unrighteousness,1John 5:17?
---Haz27 on 5/23/14


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Samuel. Your claim 1John 1:8, 2:1 refers to Christians, is a contradiction when 1John 3:6-9 says we "cannot sin".

Read 1John 1 from beginning. Note its evangelical context. It "bears witness/declares" "eternal life" to non-believers so they too "may have fellowship".

Our works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29
We keep his commandments, 1John 3:23
1:Believe on Jesus
2:Love one another.

Helping the physically needy is what Christians AND non-Christians do. Hence you have not differentiated the saved from the lost in your claim.

But Christians go further. We preach the gospel helping the spiritually hungry, thirsty, naked, strangers, etc.
---Haz27 on 5/23/14


I think the strong or seasoned Christians would be quicker to judge because they have learned more of the Word and have been in God's service longer. Weak,or babes in Christ know their limits and I don't think they would presume they were qualified to judge,plus they would probably be more humble. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/23/14


Luke we do not believe Once Saved always saved because we do not believe in Predestination.
We do not justify our lack of Security by supporting the written law. Any more then John Wesley and Luther. Read their sermons on the Ten Commandments. Our security comes from JESUS CHRIST.
We believe GOD demands righteousness which we cannot give and so are saved by Grace. But we also believe JESUS, John, James and Paul who wrote that the law defines sin and we are to not live in sin. Romans 5-7. Why you hate the law of GOD?

Rom 8:7,8

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God
---Samuelbb7 on 5/23/14


Haz27 Correct the law stands as a measure not a giver of Righteouness. Like a mirror tells us our face is dirty but does not wash it. James.
We do not preach a mixture. We preach that Christians are not supposed to live in sin. Which I believe you teach nine of the Ten Commandments are sins. Do you believe that a person who constantly takes the name of GOD in vain is not doing wrong?
Romans 10,14 shows our Righteousness comes only from JESUS. The works of the law cannot lead to righteousness. Righteousness can only come from JESUS. The law is to tell us we need a Savior and right and wrong.
But as Romans 5,6, & 7 tells us we are to live in righteousness not law breaking. See also First John and Matthew 5. As well as James.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/23/14


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grace does not do away with the law. -Samuelbb7

True. But we differ in understanding on this. Whilst the law still stands as the measure for righteousness, it does not apply to Christians as our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

You rightly say we must not mix works of the law with grace, BUT SDA's do preach a lukewarm mix of works with grace.

Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, to everyone that believes, Rom 10:4.

There are 2 paths to righteousness.
1:works of the law
OR
2:righteousness by faith, Rom 4:5.
We CANNOT mix these 2 very different ways to righteousness, Rom 11:6.
---Haz27 on 5/23/14


Dear elee,
I agree with that statement. They do not have the security or assurance of their salvation, and justify that lack of security by continuing to support the written Law, of which we as believers are not under.
They do not understand because of their denominational believe on the Saturday Sabbath, that under the Law God demands righteousness, while under grace He bestows righteousness. And that the Law connects with Moses and works, and that grace ties us with Christ and faith in His works for us. That under Law obedience brings blessings, but under Grace blessings is bestowed as a free gift. Agape
---Luke on 5/23/14


Dear Haz27
No. Establishing the law means that we recognize that the law defines sin. Yes in Christ we are covered by the robes of His Righteousness you left out the word His. We also recognize that we cannot save ourselves our works are just what we are supposed to do.
Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
We humans sin.
1John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
So you believe that letting the people starve is okay?
James 2:16
---Samuelbb7 on 5/23/14


Samuel. For SDA's "establish the law means obeying it to some unspecified/ambiguous minimum standard, and if you fail this then your lost.

BUT, to establish the law actually means we acknowledge the law is just, good, holy, Rom 7:12, and we deserved the death penalty for unrighteousness.
Hence we needed a savior. Thus in Christ we are covered by the robes of righteousness.

Samuel, you speak of choosing to obey, but then you admit you don't. You contradict yourself.

And as for helping the needy, even non-Christians do that. You misunderstand scripture. Matt 25 refers to preaching the gospel to the spiritually needy.
---Haz27 on 5/22/14


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True we must not mix law and Grace. But grace does not do away with the law.


Rom 3:31

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We are supposed to live to JESUS. Which means we strive against sin plus hate.

We choose to Love and Obey for there is no other way.


Rom 7:6

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The newness is Love which leads us to not steal, lie, covet, dishonor Parents, take GOD's name in vain, and worship idols.

We actually work to help others by feeding the hungry and helping people.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/14


Was Paul weak in I Cor 5?
Elder on 4/7/14

1Cor 5 is not about keeping the law. Instead it warns us not to associate with legalists (the weak, professing Christians).

The fornication 1Cor 5 speaks of is spiritual fornication where one has his father's (the devil, John 8:44), wife (Hagar, symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24)

Satan wants man to establish righteousness by works of the law instead of submitting to God's righteousness.

Note 1Cor 5:7 speaking in this same context of spiritual fornication with Hagar. We should purge out the old leaven (doctrine of righteousness by works of the law, Matt 16:12)

We must not mix works of the law with grace, Rom 11:6
---Haz27 on 5/21/14


You need scripture? What do you do with the word when you hear it? You will do one of six things with it. The first parable Jesus taught us. Here it is Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8. So I will always share the goodness of God. Faith is a gift and we all have the same measure of it. How you use it is up to you not God. If you follow Jesus you will use it for life.
---Bryan on 5/20/14


People who don't know the truth judge. Cause when you know the truth you will share it.
---Bryan on 5/19/14

As usual, with no scriptures to back your statement.
Here are a couple that refute your un-scriptural opinion on one side of your intent.
You remind me of the preacher in the movie "There Will be Blood".

Mat_7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Mar_7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
---Trav on 5/20/14


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People who don't know the truth judge. Cause when you know the truth you will share it.
---Bryan on 5/19/14


Cluny: I have long suspected that Cluny is just another pseudonym of "Lee of Many Names". His cat perhaps.

When your lies are exposed, you don't bother to address them, but move on to another subject only to bring them up again at a later date.



---jerry6593 on 4/14/14


Dear Cluny

You make a statement and don't tell me where to find it since you never read it.

I had to look up the original statement. A web site on the question is at

Ellen G. White Comments on the Civil War.

She states England is considering it and could do so. She states "If England thinks it will pay, she will not hesitate for a moment .... Then continues by writing on the condition above is meet that "When England does declare war...

There are actually two ifs given by her before the possibility of declaring war could happen.

I will regard your comment as a question. Not a false accusation.
The Whole article is in
Testimonies Volume one pgs. 253-260

Agape
---Sameulbb7 on 4/13/14


\\All of her prophecies have come true, including the great earthquake/fire of San Francisco and the burning skyscrapers of New York City.\\

How about EGW's false prophecy that England would invade the US during the Civil War?

Did that come true?

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/12/14


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Lee: Once again you have published lies about Ellen White and refuse to admit it or to apologize for it. How shamelessly you denigrate your fellow Christians while claiming that "love thy neighbor" is the only remaining Law. Do you really believe that God approves of your using Satan's methods to do God's work.



---jerry6593 on 4/13/14


//All of her prophecies have come true, including the great earthquake/fire of San Francisco and the burning skyscrapers of New York City.

Get your facts straight!
****
yes, maybe we can put Ellen white prophecies on the same shelf as those of Nostradamus as they can be twisted to fit any event historically.

Yes, I can see you are still determined to promote Adventism not having much knowledge of the Bible nor its Author.
---elee7537 on 4/12/14


Lee: "She got booted out of a church that preached the gospel because they would not believe in her visions that Jesus would return on 22 October 1844. None of her prophecies have ever come true and much that she wrote had to be edited."

I see that someone must have awakened you. What a shame! I see that your hatred of SDA's and your hate-filled rant of lies against them has not abated.

Ellen White was 17 and a Methodist in 1844. It was William Miller, a Baptist preacher who taught the 1844 advent of Christ. All of her prophecies have come true, including the great earthquake/fire of San Francisco and the burning skyscrapers of New York City.

Get your facts straight!



---jerry6593 on 4/12/14


Samuel7bb //No we do not and never had. We teach false followers of GOD who actually follow Satan will try to murder those who keep the Sabbath by enforcing a death penalty against them.
****
That truly reveals to everyone that you follow not the Scripture but self induced visions of Ellen White. She got booted out of a church that preached the gospel because they would not believe in her visions that Jesus would return on 22 October 1844. None of her prophecies have ever come true and much that she wrote had to be edited.
---elee7537 on 4/11/14


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JESUS kept the Sabbath and said how to keep it.
***
Agree Jesus kept all the law and perfectly. However what does the Scripture teach?

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

And are we still under the slavery of the Old Covenant?

Galatians 4:21-24 Tell me, Samuel7bb who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written Abraham had 2 sons, one by a slave woman of the flesh, the other by a free woman according to the promise. Allegorically: these women are 2 covenants. One is from Mt Sinai, (law) bearing Hagar's children for slavery
---elee753 on 4/11/14


Samuel7bb// We see Paul teaching on Sabbath and no mention of the Sabbath being done away with.
***
Yes, we can easily see Pauls teaching on the Sabbath depicted in Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

//We just believe that all of the Ten Commandments are equal. Do you believe any of the other nine are done away with? Do you believe it is a sin to keep the other nine commandments?

I believe Adventists know little of the teachings of the Bible. What they pitch in observance of the 10 commandments is known as the ministry of death and condemnation. Ever Read 2 Corinthians 3:7-9?
---elee7537 on 4/11/14


As to judgment on other Christians, do you Adventist truly believe those born again of Gods Spirit will bear the Mark of the Beast just because they have communal worship on Sunday? elee7537

No we do not and never had. We teach false followers of GOD who actually follow Satan will try to murder those who keep the Sabbath by enforcing a death penalty against them.

On the Sabbath we see clearly in the New Testament that JESUS kept the Sabbath and said how to keep it. We see Paul teaching on Sabbath and no mention of the Sabbath being done away with. We just believe that all of the Ten Commandments are equal. Do you believe any of the other nine are done away with? Do you believe it is a sin to keep the other nine commandments?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/11/14


Samuelbb7

//1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
*****
Where Adventists are WRONG in their understanding of the Scripture is in the fact they transport command(ments) found only in the Old Covenant into the New and use that as a basis for judgment on other Christians. If the Sabbath commandment were applicable then clearly we would have seen it taught in the Early Church as well as in the Epistles but we do not.

As to judgment on other Christians, do you as an Adventist truly believe those born again of Gods Spirit will bear the Mark of the Beast just because they have communal worship on Sunday? A question that you may refuse to answer!
---elee7537 on 4/11/14


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"How you sow is how it will produce in your life believer or not it is the only thing that has the power to produce."

The Word is not an it.

Read John 1

just saying
---just_saying on 4/11/14


1st_cliff= elee' Define "weak Christian"

Read Romans 14 as the weak Christians are those who have not grown spiritually and tend to judge and criticize the stronger believers.

Such believers had not grown spiritually and lack understanding of the Word of God. They tend to adhere to dietary restrictions, observe days, and other religious ordinances.
---elee7537 on 4/11/14


It is the power of God that cause believers to walk in His statues without exception. They are not along doing their own works to produce life. Agape

---Luke

Amen.


Luke 17:10

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Amen
---Samuelbb7 on 4/11/14


//How you sow is how it will produce in your life believer or not it is the only thing that has the power to produce.//

You are looking at salvation again in the wrong way. You are speaking of believers doing their own works in order for God to produce life in the believer. Completely ignoring the Spirit guiding the believer in his walk of faith. If the Spirit is in you, you will do the works of God without exemption under the New Covenant:
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statues, and you will keep My judgments and do them" Ezek. 36:27.
It is the power of God that cause believers to walk in His statues without exception. They are not along doing their own works to produce life. Agape
---Luke on 4/11/14


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This is the basics of our Christian beliefs the word was given to us and that's not just a few people that's to all who believe yes there are different spirits but the basic Is we were all given the word, the word is what produces in our life. How you sow is how it will produce in your life believer or not it is the only thing that has the power to produce.
---Bryan on 4/10/14


//Then what is your testamony what did Jesus give to you a spirit of judgment. That your way of believing is the only way?//

Dear Bryan,
when those in the church were in sin, they were kicked out of the church. But you are not in a church but an open forum. You cannot kick out anyone yourself.
The mistake you are making is that the Spirit gives many different gifts to those who believe by faith. They don't all do the same thing. You want everyone to do what you do, and if they do not, they are not saved. You are applying the word of God wrong, in my opinion.
I say this in love. Agape
---Luke on 4/10/14


Then what is your testamony what did Jesus give to you a spirit of judgment. That your way of believing is the only way? You can use faith any way you wish that is what my Jesus tells me but not every way will produce God perfect will, still your choice. Jesus said I wll produce in you so follow me.
---Bryan on 4/9/14


If a person says you are wrong or misinformed about something, or that is a wrong thing to do. That is not judging.

When a person says you are not a Christian or you are doomed and stupid that is judging.

We can disagree but not judge.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/9/14


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Big truth here None of You Are Jesus.
---Bryan on 4/8/14

Congrats on such a nice find. A real edifying pearl. Only a preacher of today could see this surely.

The least one can do is bring Jesus the Apostles along with GOD's prophets to any debate.

1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Tit 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
---Trav on 4/9/14


True I'm not Jesus I don't judge or condemn. I say everybody has the right to have the full power of God's word in their life. To believe less would would be a lie.
---Bryan on 4/9/14


You know what the scraies part of that statement is? They already have it producing in their life. God's word is the only thing that has the power to bring forth blessing or cursing. You choose that is the perfection of the word. And you will choose one or the other. So I say share the good things of God cause that is what you want to produce in your life is it not?
---Bryan on 4/9/14


God loves us when we obey the ultimate commandment - Love. Of which all the other commandments of the prophets hang upon. If you love God, obey his commandments.

If we are not to judge, how are we to tell another person that they did something wrong? Do we just let the wrong go only to have the person repeat the offence? If you had a son or daughter, whould you not judge their actions and corrected them? Whatever happened to righteous judging?

Are not prophets to edify the church? (the real church, the christians, not denominational churches)
---Steveng on 4/8/14


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Including you bryan.
---aka on 4/8/14


Big truth here None of You Are Jesus.
---Bryan on 4/8/14


Matthew 7:24-26

The gospel of Jesus christ is good news to those that do not deny the realization that we were wrong all along.
---aka on 4/8/14


Jesus may not have used the words, "You are wrong" but He did correct people all the time. It was done for their good not their hurt.
---Elder on 4/8/14

Agreement! I'm as guilty as any....being human as any. Provocation...caused me to research...study although.
One way to stand outside is with two scriptures witnessing the debated issue. The argument then is with two or more prophets/apostles/Lord and GOD.
Err is one covering all ground word Christ used.
Mat_22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mar_12:24 Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
---Trav on 4/8/14


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Jesus did quite a lot of rebuking, and if I recall threw the money changers out of the Temple with whip in hand.

Someone must have a feel good Bible that only gives half truths. Of coarse the Kingdom NOW WOF who are actually marketing ...for 3 easy payments of only $9.99..or send us $2000 and God will immediately dispatch to you personally a Passover Angel to look after all your needs. NO KIDDING...Paula White Ministries.

They would never tell you the truth.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/14


"Jesus never told anybody they were wrong..."

Really? What do we call what He told the woman at the well in John 4?

Or, what about the Pharisees, Sadducees and other groups?

Did He rebuke Peter or not?

Jesus may not have used the words, "You are wrong" but He did correct people all the time. It was done for their good not their hurt.

We, today, can't grasp onto that concept. We want to rebuke and correct no matter how our statements affect or hurt the other person(s) just as long as it makes us "look" spiritual and right.

If you don't believe me read some of the posts on ChristiaNet blogs.
---Elder on 4/8/14


//Jesus never told anybody they were wrong he just shared the Gospel knowing it is the seed that has the power to change hearts.//

Jesus did not have to tell anyone they were wrong, He is God and knew all of them were wrong. He is the Seed of the Gospel. The One who changes the heart.
We are called to judge those in the Church, but God judges those outside the Church. It is of the outmost importance that within the Church, everyone is in one accord, otherwise they will permit those who continuing sin to cause division. Those who are living in sin, should be thrown out of the Church.
---Luke on 4/8/14


Dear Shira

I do not mind people saying I am wrong and trying to correct me. That is just us discussing.

But some here and other places, have stated that since I worship on Sabbath that I am going to hell and am a member of a cult who are all not Christian.

These are not the same things. Agape to you.

JESUS did condemn some. Read all Matthew 23 and Luke 6 and 11.
Mat 23:13

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/8/14


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Jesus never told anybody they were wrong he just shared the Gospel knowing it is the seed that has the power to change hearts.
---Bryan on 4/7/14


Samuel, I don't think anyone is judging you but just trying to show you the truth. sometimes we come across wrong. just because someone tells you something and it sounds like judging it don't mean you are not saved. many saved does not see eye to eye with me. it just means I think something other than what they think.
---shira4368 on 4/7/14


You don't even hear yourself now say how you have the right to tell people when the wrong. If you have the faith in the word as you say you do then share the Gospel it is the only thing that can chance a heart. Jesus is the only way.
---Bryan on 4/7/14


Was Paul weak in I Cor 5?
---Elder on 4/7/14

No, there is a difference between speaking truth in love, Paul who called all the christians saints but need correction 1 Cor 1:2.
Those that judge someone for personal gain like the Pharisee "God, I am glad I am not like this tax collection..."
---Scott1 on 4/7/14


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I have been judged many times by many people because I am a Seventh day Adventist. So according to the comments so far. All those who judge me for following GOD are weak.


1Jo 2:3-6

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

We are to be crucified daily and follow JESUS. We should not be judging others. But we can say something is incorrect. Those here tell me what John means?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/7/14


Was Paul weak in I Cor 5?
---Elder on 4/7/14


"Do you agree or disagree with these statements and why?" I agree.
Why? Because we, as new "christians", tend to be overly zealous. Focusing on being seen by others as "having a form, [or appearance] of Godliness" we tend to "deny the Power thereof". Thus judging others by what we deem in our ignorance to be the standard of holiness, the keeping of the law. However, I have noticed that even in our ignorance we are slow to apply that standard to ourselves, and when we do, we should notice that that standard of judgement only brings condemnation, as well it should. For no one keeps the whole law, and the violation of one, is the violation of all. Jas 2:10-12
---Josef on 4/7/14


I'm not sure I really understand the question, but will do my best to answer. Laws, whether they are from God or from the powers that be in the land in which we live, are given for a reason and are meant to be obeyed.

ALL Christians need the security of God's laws. HE would not have given them if they were not for our own good and we flout HIS laws at our own peril, I believe.

Man's laws are, sometimes, made by corrupt people and that is why they are sometimes challenged. Where God's laws are concerned I'd say that if a 'weak' Christian sees a 'stronger' Christian breaking one of God's laws they have a right to criticise. This will show that they are not as weak as others might assume them to be.
---Rita_H on 4/7/14


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//"it is the weak Christians that must have the security of the law, it is the weak Christians who are prone to judge and criticize stronger believers and to stumble over what they do."//

I know you want to be kind by saying "week Christians" but those who are under the law are not Christians. Christians are those who are in Christ, not the Law. Christians are obedient to the law only because the Spirit of the law is in them. Those under the law do not have the Spirit of the Law.
Those under the law do judge others by the law. All you have to do is ask any ungodly person, and they know everything Christians are doing wrong, they judge them by the law.
---Luke on 4/7/14


Religions judge people. The Gospel of Jesus Christ sets them free from the laws of sin and death (judgmemt & condemnation)
---Bryan on 4/7/14


Hello, kind of reminds me of when you have parent(s) that tell you(bk in my childhood.. )
1.it hurts me more than it does you.
2.do as, I say do & not as I do..(not really good..some kids will test you on this one.)
(Not concern)you are hurting inside.
.
So if baby christians are falling(no doubts) it may not be an appropiate
thing to put them down or point them out ..let them will ( older now, let them be responsible)Heb.2:9,10,13,14,15,17,
Heb.2: .17d.
Heb.8:10,11,12.
Love of Jesus!

Elena9555
---Elena9555 on 4/6/14


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