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Are There Three Earth Ages

I heard Shepherd's Chapel say that there was 3 earth ages. Could this be possible?

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 ---judy on 4/11/14
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"I have a challenge. I challenge anyone to provide scientific evidence of an ancient earth."--jerry6593 on 5/2/14> An Ice Age that occurred over 14,000 years ago is proven by the discovery of a wooly mammoth found in Siberia with its tissue, sinews, and blood cells, still intact, and with a buttercup and green grass still in its mouth. Actually, according to various reports, there are records of several mammoths found frozen in ice in the tundra over the last couple centuries. The wooly mammoth became extinct approximately 10,000 years ago according to Wikipedia.
---joseph on 5/18/14

This NEW heaven and earth will be so pure NO sin can or will enter. There had to be a beginning, where that beginning began with ANGELS who rebelled. Those angels who rebelled were allowed to occupy the recreation of this heavens and earth now with man on the scene. Why, BECAUSE WITHOUT THE CREATION OF MAN, satan and those who rebelled would never have been overthrown . WHY? Because it took God being made flesh to overthrow satan. So in the final end rebellion itself is dealt with.

This, Warwick and company will NEVER get or understand, totally distorting God's WHOLE PLAN of redemption PLANNED before the foundation of the world 6000 years ago. The NEW earth Romans 8 is waiting for the NEW CREATURES, only found IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 5/18/14

HELL was not made for man, but for angels. Why, since in the end man will also go there? It means angels rebelled BEFORE man was even created. Jesus Christ was also foreordained BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD TO TAKE AWAY SIN. As head of the NEW CREATION, all sin will be taken away forever. So that verse is dealing not only with man's sin, BUT ALL SIN EVERYWHERE.

If you don't understand what the NEW CREATION IS, and HOW it comes into being, that is ONLY THROUGH THE RESURRECTED CHRIST, the new creation also including the new heaven and will Never understand the WHOLE PLAN of God. Since angles cannot die, just being locked away for eternity in some dark corner wouldn't cleanse. Jesus blood also cleansed the heavens.
---kathr453 on 5/18/14

And finally...we know that we overcome SATAN through the blood of Christ. We overcome satan because we are IN Christ , that is the risen Christ. Satan was defeated through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who was made flesh. God KNEW before and planned before man was ever brought into this world he would be made flesh and take on the flesh of MAN To overthrow satan. This was no after thought of woops.....6 perfect days, and now what. We are told in Genesis 3:15 the adversary is satan, and that was no surprise to God, ALL this planning from beginning to end took place BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

Oh the wisdom of God is such that only the NEW creature having the wisdom that is in Christ can grasp.
---kath4453 on 5/18/14

Joseph as I have demonstrated your view does not begin with Scripture but is based upon false premises, and is imposed upon Scripture. Your view of Jeremiah ch.4 adequately demonstrates this.

Genesis ch. 1 is not 2 stories but 1, commencing with "in the beginning" followed by creation of the heavens and earth, light, sky, appearance of dry land, vegetation, sun and stars, animals, and mankind, all in 6 ordinary earth-rotation days, as Genesis 1:31 and Exodus 20:8-11 show.

Your view contains an imagined gap in Genesis ch.1 into which the imagined millions of years are jammed. Jesus disagrees, saying man was made at the beginning of Creation (Mark 10:6) not after millions of years.
---Warwick on 5/16/14


Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,

Where do you find three ages in this straightforward, factual statement written by God Himself? What is the reason why you need to insert them into the biblical record where they don't exist? Is it to elevate the word of Darwin above the Word of God or is it something else?

---jerry6593 on 5/17/14

"Joseph, Isaiah 45:18 says God did not form the earth to be empty but to be inhabited." Warwick the way this quote is worded, Did we real need to be told that? I understand it as Father did not create the earth without form or void, He created it to be inhabited. "The straight -forward understanding of Genesis 1:2....... and there was morning-the 6th-day." I agree. Where we differ is that you believe Gen. 1:2 forward are days of creation, I believe they are days of restoration. The only creations during that time was whales and man, which apparently did not exist during the first earth age. Am I going to change my point of view? No. Are you? No. Therefore we will simply agree to disagree agreeably:o)
---joseph on 5/16/14

Joseph, starting with 2 false premises you seek anything which appears to support your view and consequently miss that Jeremiah ch. 4 concerns Nebuchadnezzar (the lion of verse 7-see Jeremiah 50:17) being God's instrument of destruction upon Israel and Judah because of their unfaithfulness. They preferred false prophets to those God sent.

The land was laid waste and its cities left desolate. But as verse 27 says He did not plan to destroy it completely. Therefore your question about Jerusalem is

"Formless and empty" of Genesis 1:1 speaks to a stage in the earth's creation while Jeremiah 4:23 speaks of Israel and Judah destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Two totally different contexts.
---Warwick on 5/16/14

Job 38:26
To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is, on the wilderness, wherein there is no man,

And again, Job 38 talking about before man.....

We know when it rained on the earth during the time of Noah! men were everywhere! and because of that rain all but 8 souls perished. Before the flood, no rain ever rained upon the earth. Only a mist came up from the ground.

Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little......

God does not throw out words for no reason. This verse is clear to understand.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/14

Warwick on 4/20>21>26>27>5/11>5/14 Concerning whether or not I believe you are correct in your understanding of Jer 4:23-28. I agree that the verses can legitimately be understood that way, that is the way the passages read. However, since Jer. 23 is referenced in the past tense, and uses the same terminology as Gen. 1:2 I would ask you to consider and answer this for yourself, has the geographical area of Zion, the land of Judah, or the city of Jerusalem, in the recorded history of man, biblically or otherwise, ever been a frozen wasteland devoid of life? Jer.4:23-25. Has the City of Jerusalem ever been totally destroyed "at the presence of the LORD"? Jer.4,26,27.Show where that has occurred, & you will have proven your point.
---joseph on 5/15/14

Exo 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is]...
Exo 31:17 ...for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth...
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth...
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
-God made them male and female from the beginning of creation, about 6000 years ago. God did not have to wait for the Earth to "become" without form and void, because He made it that way, from the beginning.
/My God doesn't create something without form and void.\-kathr4453 on 5/12/14
Then you don't have an omnipotent God.
---micha9344 on 5/15/14

Micha, seeing we've been over this many times, where scripture teaches scripture, please refer to other scripture using the words " without form and void" and you will have your answer. I have the answer, and am content with God's revealing that truth to me. It's for me to keep dear to my heart, and I will not let it go until The Lord shows me differently.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/14

Since the Earth was without form (Gen 1:2), when did God form it?
You say there was already a foundation there in v9, what happened between v2 and v9 to switch it from formless to a foundation?
Your 99% commentaries seem to think the formless was one liquid glob (chaos). So what changed from v2 to v9?
---micha9344 on 5/14/14

Joseph, 2 Peter 3:5 ESV reads "...the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God." NIV, Holman, ISV,NET, etc agree, as do the ERV and ASV which say the earth was "compacted" out of water. The KJV quote you gave gives the wrong idea, as it does in other areas.

That the world was not "deluged and perished" because of Noahs flood is unscriptural, and contrary to the available physical evidence which shows most of the world covered to great depths, in sedimentary rock, rock deposited by deep flowing water from the rock shredded by Noahs cataclysmic flood. Within this rock are the remains of billions of creatures including man. Definitely "deluged and destroyed/perished."
---Warwick on 5/14/14

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

2 Peter 3...the earth was in the water and out of the water in that exact order. Opposite of Noah's flood.

God gathered the waters into one place and when doing so the dry land called earth appeared....not a walla appearance as something newly created, but as a result of the waters being moved off to one area exposing the earth dry ground. Just as when The Red Sea was parted and dry land appeared. It was there already under the water.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/14

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form,and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. ((STILL TALKING ABOUT THE EARTH, NOT THE WHOLE OF THE UNIVERSE see the continuing "COMMAS" in the description referring to "the subject" THE EARTH.)) And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. The WATERS again were around "the EARTH" not the universe. 2 Peter 3

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, ----.

micha, nowhere does it say the earth was FORMED on the 3rd day. The NEXT time scripture uses the word FORM or FORMED is referring to Adam.

SO what you are doing is ADDING your own thoughts not even in scripture. GOD IS LIGHT.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/14

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God created light after He created the Earth empty, dark, and formless on day 1.
He created the celestial bodies(sun, moon, stars) on day 4.
He also formed it on Day 3.
Kathr, your poor interpretation of Job 38 is hindering you from seeing the Truth.
The sons of God and the morning stars refer to the same spiritual beings.
There are many places in the bible that reiterate(say the same thing) in a different way.
It is interesting you say "totally taking form" when the angels shouted for joy. The Earth was not formed until day 3 when He called the dry land "Earth"
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
---micha9344 on 5/13/14

Joseph, your view springs from 2 false premises:

1) That KJV Genesis 1:28 "..'replenish' the earth.." means refill. Wrong: replenish was the correct translation of 'male' (Hebrew-fill) when the KJV was produced. Today replenish means refill. Modern translations correctly render 'male' as fill.

False premise 2) Some Christians, with 'replenish' in mind accepted unproveable ideas of millions/billions of years and proposed a gap in Genesis ch. 1 where these vast ages could fit (they thought) aligning Scripture with what they had falsely been sold as scientific reality.

So, no need of any refilling, no gap and no catastrophe in the gap which doesnt exist. And it does not align scripture with worldly ideas anyway!
---Warwick on 5/13/14

And Micha, looking on the other blog " Angels" we see in Job 38...the world was well thought out, planned perfectly, the foundation stone laid, and was totally taking form as the angels clapped along with the morning STARS which gave off light as STARS DO, all the while the earth was beautifully created in perfection the first time. Now that's MY GOD. Job 38 does not describe the earth without form and void with darkness upon the face of the deep, being created out of water.

Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little........
---kathr4453 on 5/13/14

A very hard concept for us, as humans inside the creation, to grasp.
---micha9344 on 5/12/14

Micha, Faith has nothing to do with reason, but belief in God's word, as He reveals His word to us through the word of God, line upon line, precept upon precept. Here a little there a little. So many of us, having read ALL scripture, have been shown by God the here a little there a little as God has revealed to those who want to know the truth based on ALL the word of God. We don't grasp a concept, but grasp truth as God has revealed.

Scripture does not say the earth was created in water, but destroyed by water. The here a little is ALL of 2 Peter 3-7. Just to pull out a phrase within the verse is dishonest.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/14

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When God created the heavens and the Earth, it was dark, empty, and without form.
God then lightened it, formed it, and filled it.
There was no such thing as darkness, emptiness, nor chaos before the beginning.

---micha9344 on 5/12/14

It says the EARTH was without form and void.....BUT was everything, including all the other planets without form and void?

My God doesn't create something without form and void. And...before the beginning of WHAT? If there truly is NO BEGINNING , then correct, there was no emptiness or chaos no darkness before OUR BEGINNING until something happened to make it so.

When God created Adam he never refers to him as without form and void before breathing life into man.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/14

When God created the heavens and the Earth, it was dark, empty, and without form.
God then lightened it, formed it, and filled it.
There was no such thing as darkness, emptiness, nor chaos before the beginning.
A very hard concept for us, as humans inside the creation, to grasp.
---micha9344 on 5/12/14

"Scripture does say God created water "the earth was formed out of water and through water" 2 Peter 3:5." What 2 Peter 3:5 actually says is "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:" This verse is not referencing a creation, but rather a destruction. As far as Isaiah 45:7 is concerned, the direct statement of the Father holds no ambiguity, therefore needs no interpretation, and can not be explained away. The same Hebrew word for darkness, [choshek], is used in both Gen.1:2 and Isa. 45:7 and has the same meaning.
---Joseph on 5/12/14

2 Peter 3:5-7

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: this is talking about Genesis 1:3 THOSE WATERS.

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Remember during Noah's Flood, the world did not perish...people did. and 2 Peter 3:5 is not talking about the time of Noah anyway. God did not have to re-create the Heavens and earth after Noah's flood.

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/14

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Joseph, light is a created thing (Genesis 1:3) darkness is only its absence. God did not begin saying-"Let there be darkness. When you flick a light switch electricity produces light. Turning it off does not in the same way produce such a quantifiable, testable thing. It isn't called a darkness switch!

Isaiah 45:7 was directed to King Cyrus of Persia, concerning the Persian Magians sect who believed light and darkness, or good and evil, were the supreme beings, and didn't consider God superior to both. It has nothing to do with Genesis 1.

Scripture does say God created water "the earth was formed out of water and through water" 2 Peter 3:5. That is unless you think the water was always there?
---Warwick on 5/12/14

Joseph, Isaiah 45:18 says God did not form the earth to be empty but to be inhabited. This fits with the straight-forward understanding of Genesis 1:2 tohu waw bohu (formless and empty) as it was, then God (in the days following ) proceeded to fill it. This fits with Exodus 20:11-everything being made in the 6-days between "in the beginning" and "there was evening, and there was morning-the 6th-day."

You claim to be someone on a path, struggling to understand Scripture, with an open mind, but in reality you have already accepted views which are not Biblical but imposed upon Scripture. And you will not give up on them. Your mind is made up but you say otherwise.
---Warwick on 5/12/14

I have skipped quickly over most of these responses. They look way too complicated for me to take in.

Personally I have absolutely no problem believing that Almighty God made ALL things exactly as the bible states - in six days - and then He rested the seventh.

At my age I really like UNcomplicated.

Some of you here seem to enjoy complicating things just so you can then go and unravel it all again.

If I cannot accept that ALL the bible is true then I'd not want to just believe that some of it is and have to keep debating all the other parts.
---Rita on 5/12/14

"And you seem to be saying God created darkness." I am.
Father, "Who fills all in all", is omnipresent. "He is before all things, and by him all things consist". Col 1:17 Nothing exist apart from Him, "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all".>1Jo 1:5 Therefore darkness has to be a creation.>Isa 45:7 Water also has to be a creation. The creation of Heaven, earth, and seas are all mentioned in the Genesis account, but the creation of water is not, why?. "Now you....What does this term mean to you?" Warwick I agree with Dr. Strongs that it means to lie waste, a desolation (of surface), a vacuity, an indistinguishable ruin. Strongs H8414>H922
---joseph on 5/11/14

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Joseph, as you say I have remained cordial with you. However I do note you have acknowledged the reasonableness of that which I have written but have never accepted that what I have written is a correct understanding of Scripture. This makes me feel that you half agree rather than have a debate. I believe you have views which are not Scriptural and prefer them to what Scripture actually says.

Now you are onto the formless and void point again. What does this term mean to you? And you seem to be saying God created darkness. Don't you know that darkness is only a lack of light, not something in itself? God's word says He created light, but never says He created darkness.
---Warwick on 5/11/14

"God created satan the angels and a lot of other things before the earth was without form and void." Amen Ben. Including water and darkness:o)
---joseph on 5/11/14

"God created satan the angels and a lot of other things before the earth was without form and void. Not to meantion satan and his thugs were cast out before Adam and all the rest."-Ben on 5/4/14
How do you know? ...What has led you to these conclusions?
---micha9344 on 5/6/14

Ben, that there are dinosaur bones, oil and coal is not in contention. That they support long-ages/evolution cannot be proven scientifically.

Interestingly, and relevantly T-Rex bones containing blood cells, and flexible tissue have been found in the USA and investigated extensively by Dr Mary Schweitzer. That blood cells and flexible tissue exist, and that it has not been permineralized, is solid evidence that these dinosaurs were around relatively recently i.e. in the last few thousand years.

Likewise C14 has been found in diamonds which proves their maximum age is to be measured in thousands of years not the billions of years evolutionists claim. If you are conversant with C14 dating you will understand why this is so.
---Warwick on 5/5/14

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Ben: Where's the evidence? The things you mention are evidence of Noah's flood some 4,500 years ago. You'll need something a lot older to allow for 3 earth ages and the multi-millions of years postulated for Evolution. Care to try again?

---jerry6593 on 5/5/14

Dear Ben,
Can you provide Scripture to proof your points? I would like to read them. Agape
---Luke on 5/5/14

Jerry said he wanted to see some scientific evidence of an ancient earth. The dinasour bones that they dig up and the oil we pump out of the ground and the coal that we dig out of the ground. God created satan the angels and a lot of other things before the earth was without form and void. Not to meantion satan and his thugs were cast out before Adam and all the rest.
---Ben on 5/4/14

Trav, the highest position to which any of us can aim is servant.

You write your silliness about me firstly because of envy. But why would you envy me? Galatians 5:19-21 tells us envy is ungodly.

You are also annoyed (causing your long-term cyber stalking) because I have pointed out you constantly quote Scripture (some irrelevantly) but reject any Scripture which disagrees with your pet nonBiblical views i.e. Noah's flood was a local event. This local flood idea is error taught by those who wish to make Scripture conform to the unGodly ideas of long-ages and evolution. The exposure of your unbiblical compromise has annoyed you-leading to cyber stalking. But I do not mind at all. In fact I find it mildly entertaining.
---Warwick on 5/2/14

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Dear Trav,
I believe you have some very good points as so many others. I do not think it is necessary or good to speak bad about another when answering someone else. We can speak good about others, but we should not judge another person when talking to someone else, that is what I mean. You can judge the answers someone gives if you have Scripture. I think the bickering should stop. Many here don't like others so they resort to cutting in and speaking bad. Christians should never act like that, where is the love of Christ? Agape
---Luke on 5/3/14

Trav has many good points he can discuss with others.
The rest is just not good.
---Luke on 5/2/14

I see that you wouldn't make judgement yourself....ha.

Psa_119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Above is my scriptural bias, not so much for the individual but, usually "preacher wanna-be types" who by inflection hint that they have a superior situation or station regarding scripture or life in general. Scripture exposes these...and do they ever chafe over the exposure. As seen.

Psa_119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right, and I hate every false way.
---Trav on 5/2/14

You are quite welcome Kat, my pleasure.
---joseph on 5/2/14

I have a challenge. I have seen some strange interpretations here of the Holy Scriptures to force a long-age paradigm into them.

I challenge anyone to provide scientific evidence of an ancient earth and be willing to defend that evidence scientifically. If you can't, why then would you bring up such anti-biblical concepts.

---jerry6593 on 5/2/14

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Dear Warwick,
I also feel it is bad to talk bad about someone to someone else. There is just so many good things to talk about concerning Scripture, good things, teachable things.
Trav has many good points he can discuss with others. The rest is just not good. We already have too much of that. We should speak with love, many here show that love in their answers, so many already answer in the flesh, not the Spirit, Agape
---Luke on 5/2/14

Trav, it appears you are not up to challenging me with a challenge. I always like a challenge and was looking forward to it.

Maybe we need to be patient while you dream one up?
---Warwick on 5/1/14

Joseph, thank you very much. I really needed that too. God Bless and stay strong too!
---kathr4453 on 4/29/14

Trav, cast aside your crafted strangled prose and tell it like it is. Clarity from you would be so refreshing.

I think you are saying I am not up to some unexplained challenge. You could be right, but unless you descend to the particular and pose a clear and specific challenge we will never know. Come on you can do it!

As the sage said: as you travel through life keep it as your goal to keep your eye upon the donut and not upon the hole.
---Warwick on 4/29/14

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Trav, But dont keep me in suspenders what is your mystery challenge?
---Warwick on 4/28/14

Your response is an example of being caught being double minded/tongued. Secret Challenge? Use two or more scriptural witnesses. One or more must always be a prophet, for your challenge.
You have never met any challenging scripture posted or blog question....with overwhelming scriptural witnesses two or more. A lemony doctrinal opinion always smothers truth out.

Joh_10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Joh_10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
You goofed two words in your fury, tighten ur suspenders go-liath.
---Trav on 4/29/14

Trav, of course you were addressing Joseph, but on a public forum, and about little ol' me! You sure have an unnatural interest in me don't you! Does your mother know you are playing with adults?

You are a confused little bunny arent you? I wrote "obviously we can all be challenged by others" but you say that applies to everyone but me. But you have laid a challenge upon me, writing "Seems as if you cannot meet the challenge." How can you challenge me if I cannot be challenged?

You may be correct, I the unchallengeable may not be up to your mystery challenge! But dont keep me in suspenders what is your mystery challenge?
---Warwick on 4/28/14

Kathr4453 I was just reading through your post to the "Earth was destroyed" blog, and all I can say is Amen and Amen. You are not only quite knowledgable, you are resolute, I love that. Although no one stood with you on that blog, (only because at that time I was really busy and not paying much attention to these blogs), you were not deterred, good for you. To quote you, "Truth is truth regardless of whether a man says it or woman."
---joseph on 4/28/14

Joseph, thanks for your answer. I think my explanation is more Biblical than just "reasonable." I have shown you how your view does not line up with the context of Jeremiah ch. 4. I think that unless you can show that I have made a mistake you should agree that is what the Bible says. It is good to consider things but the time comes to make a decision. There are many things in Scripture which can be understood one way or another with neither view contradicted by Scripture, or contradicting Scripture. There are other beliefs which have negative consequences for the truth of the Bible e.g. the Gap Theory.
---Warwick on 4/27/14

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Warwick your view is reasonable, thank you for sharing, I will keep that view as well as Micha's in mind as I continue my studies on this subject. Thank you both for remaining cordial. Be blessed.
---joseph on 4/26/14

Joseph, you have said you don't believe in the Gap Theory but some of the verses you give are those Gappists misuse to support their unbiblical idea of a gap (and divine judgement) existing between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, of millions of years.

As it is said-to take a text out of context is a pretext. Jeremiah ch. 4 is about Gods punishment meted out to Israel because of unfaithfulness. Should we take verse 23 on its own it could seem to support your view. However if we consider it in the light of other verses (e.g. 26 and 27) it is obvious ch.4 is about the ruination of the land, not the destruction of the earth.
---Warwick on 4/26/14

Darlene: I think you hit the nail on the head. People concoct these outlandish theories just to make room for long age Evolution. The Bible says that the earth was created in six literal days. Science says that the granite foundation rocks of the earth solidified in less than 3.5 minutes. Geology says that the fossil layers are ALL about 4,500 years old, and that they were laid down by the turbidite activity associated with a universal flood. These are the FACTS from the Bible and science. Yet many prefer the conjecture about the Bible and Evolution to the facts.

---jerry6593 on 4/26/14

'Play Misty For Me!'
---Warwick on 4/25/14

Ha. I was addressing Joseph. About your flight patterns. You stated ""Obviously we can all be challenged by others".
Everyone but, you as you verified.
Seems as if you cannot meet the challenge, go-liath. Run misty run.

Psa_35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.

Eze_34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
---Trav on 4/26/14

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Trav, it's time for you to move on and stop being my pet cyberstalker.

Is there nothing worthwhile happening in your life?

But maybe you just fancy me? That's a worry-shades of 'Play Misty For Me!'
---Warwick on 4/25/14

"Obviously we can all be challenged by others" Warwick that's just as it should be in an open forum. obviously you disagree. Why?
---joseph on 4/24/14

He does not tolerate pet doctrines challenged. And will run if scripture is stacked. Never seeing, arguing would be pointless....except for those that do see/look.
Good scripture witnesses u posted. Some doctrines do not allow GOD is GOD doing as he likes....when and with whomever. Strongest foundation stones are in "seeing" this fact. He can remove Tares grown with wheat and place them less than with Noah.
Rev_21:1 I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea.
---Trav on 4/25/14

"Obviously we can all be challenged by others" Warwick that's just as it should be in an open forum. It is the random censorship by the Mods that I question. Of course this is their sight and they will do as they please, however that is puzzling, and an exchange can not flow freely with those undetermined restrictions. Micha and I were sharing our view of the context of Jer. 4 :20-27,emphasizing verse 23 within that context as per our exchange concerning "earth ages". Thank you for sharing your view as well. I view 23 as a pass destruction, and Jer. 4:28 as pointing to a future destruction, cross referenced with Isa 34:4>Psa. 102:25,26>MAT 24:29-31>2 PET. 3:10-13>REV. 20:11>21:1 obviously you disagree. Why?
---joseph on 4/24/14

Judy, my understanding about shepherd's chapel version is that the soul of man pre-existed in the first age, who in this age are now the elect. I heard this teaching many rears ago and knew it was not true. Those who believe in the pre-existence of the soul are bordering on Mormonism.

Unfortunately it's teachings like this that people who are are so gullible, believe. No scripture backs up that the soul of man pre-existed.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/14

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Joseph, I wouldn't place much importance upon what the moderators accept or reject. Yes, I am sure they reject some improper material however they reject other material which is inoffensive. They also allow some to post series of blogs at one time. I saw seven recently. I think that's the record!

The reason I engaged with you is that you appear to be promoting an idea which is not supported by the references you give. Obviously we can all be challenged by others.
---Warwick on 4/21/14

Warwick, Micha, I am forever learning, hopefully I will not be as one that never comes to the knowledge of the truth. Bottom line, I can only share at the level Father has brought me to. I trust that what He has for me I will receive, and that what I receive will be sufficient for me, and beneficial for others. Ones as grounded as you both are in your beliefs, has, by faith, embraced truth within themselves. Father honors faith and so do I. I trust that your beliefs blesses you, and may they continue to bless others. Pray that my sharing here causes no harm, but then again, the mods have me in check, and refuses to post some of what I share, and I still have not figured out why:o)
---joseph on 4/21/14

Joseph, thanks for replying.

I am not trying to be difficult but I cannot understand your reasoning. As I said no commentary I accessed agrees with you. Surely one should if there is anything in what you say. And there is no support, or even a reference in the NT to the destruction you write of. The NT constantly refers to OT events, even small ones, so surely there should be a reference to the major event you believe in shouldn't there?

Also your cross references do not support your view e.g. Jeremiah 4:28 isn't about the earth's destruction as verse 27 shows. And Hosea 4:3 is about Israel's suffering because of their evil.
---Warwick on 4/21/14

"Joseph can you tell me what it is in Jeremiah 4 which makes you think it refers to the destruction of the whole world?"---Warwick on 4/20/14
I just did. If you can not receive it, dismiss it, I am ok with that. I have nothing more to offer than that which I have already shared with you.
"Also I know of nothing in the NT which would support your view." Ok.
---joseph on 4/20/14

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Joseph can you tell me what it is in Jeremiah 4 which makes you think it refers to the destruction of the whole world?

Having read it carefully I can see nothing which hints at that, only that it refers to the invasion and destruction of Israel allowed by God as judgement upon their rebellion against His commands. I have also read what different commentaries say and they do not even hint at the whole earth's destruction.

Also I know of nothing in the NT which would support your view.
---Warwick on 4/20/14

Thank you Micha for sharing your view I appreciate it.
This is mine. Jer 4 speaks of the future total destruction of the Earth, and why that destruction will be required. Father references the pass destruction, as an example of that future destruction of the earth and every thing in it. In both cases there is no man. During the first there was no man present, in the last, there will be no man remaining. In 4:23 note the usage of the past tense, and in 4:28 the future tense. Note the cross reference parallels. Jer. 4:20 with Psa. 42 :7 Verse 23 with > Isa 24:19>Gen 1:2 and verse 28: with Hos. 4:3. Jer. 4:27 is a reference to the pass, before the restoration and relates to Isa. 24:20-23 which is future prior to the Earth made new.
---joseph on 4/18/14

"The first as established>Isa.45:18, then destroyed>Jer 4:20,27. The second as a restoration>Gen.1:2."-joseph on 4/13/14
Jer 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried, for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate, yet will I not make a full end.
I am having a hard time relating this to a previous creation, especially concerning the context.
Jer 4:22 people...
Jer 4:23 ...the earth...
Jer 4:24 ...the mountains...
Jer 4:25 ...all the birds...
Jer 4:26 ...the fruitful place...the cities...
Are you saying the previous creation had mountains, man, birds, cities, and vegetation?
---micha9344 on 4/18/14

Steven, a straight-forward (read as written) view of Genesis ch.1 is not a theory as it is exactly what Jesus and the apostles believed. If we ignore and reject what Genesis says, and ignore and reject what Jesus and His apostles taught can we then say we love Him?

John 14:23 'Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."'

The Gap Theory places death, disease and misery of man and beast before sin, undermining the foundational truths of the Gospel.

We need to remember that our Creator said Creation was very good when finished. Was He saying death, disease and misery are "very good?"
---Warwick on 4/18/14

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"I would like to start with Jer 4 if we may. Can you explain your view on the verses you referenced? I'm am open to realize any misconceptions I may have or had." So am I. After you Micha.
---joseph on 4/17/14

"Micha, NOW you say you believe the angels were in fact created before the earth, and that they worshipped God for eons before man was created?"-kathr4453 on 4/14/14
No, I did not say that either.
Remember, it only takes one word to make a true statement false.
So far your statements against me are false.
So is the Gap theory, a false belief based on "scientific" evidence wrapped in misinterpreted scripture.
---micha9344 on 4/15/14

Time is too short to be frivolously debating something that cannot be proven one way or another by today's over-educated christians having as many theories as ther are books in the christian bookstore. Isn't it better to stick with loving each other which is the most important job we can do during these end days. The harvest is plenty, but the workers are few.
---Steveng on 4/14/14

Micha, NOW you say you believe the angels were in fact created before the earth, and that they worshipped God for eons before man was created? Can you please find that post where you clearly made that clear in agreement with me?

And to think all this time you were AGREEING with me. WOW. Someone here is confused. Maybe we agreed on many other things as well too...who knows. As long as you can find a way to call me a be it. The IMPORTANT thing agree with me that God had a throne long before the heavens and earth were created, and angels were there with God long before man was created , worshipping God for eons and eons. PRAISE THE LORD.
---kathr4453 on 4/14/14

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"micha believes God had no thrown until the first day or the first 6 days"-kathr4453 on 4/14/14
Now kathr has added bearing false witness to her report.
Let's see if she can get the rest of the 10 in before the end of April.
---micha9344 on 4/14/14


---joseph on 4/13/14

I completely agree with you Joseph and have posted many times these verses as well as Genesis 2:1 These ARE the Generation"s". Perhaps hearing it from a man will change micha's mind. Truth is truth however regardless of whether a man says it or woman.

micha believes God had no thrown until the first day or the first 6 days. However Ephesians tells us otherwise.

Ephesians 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.
---kathr4453 on 4/14/14

Let me back-track a bit. I seem to post too confrontationally at times.
I believe from your other posts that you are a follower of Christ and a believer and searcher of Truth. So, let us reason together the scriptures and see what conclusions can be made. If we still disagree in the end, I can rely on the fact that the Lord has begun a good work in both of us and will continue it until His day.
I would like to start with Jer 4 if we may. Can you explain your view on the verses you referenced? I'm am open to realize any misconceptions I may have or had.
---micha9344 on 4/14/14

"Eisegesis at its finest!":oD))) Prove that biblically micha9344, by biblically disproving any statement I've made. "This is a poor doctrine called the Gap theory." I have shared no "doctrine", I have never read the "Gap theory", I simply addressed a question. To be received or rejected. Either way, I have done what I chose to do, said what I chose to say, 'feel' privileged to have had the opportunity to do so, and make no apologies for either. Thank you Micha for sharing your view of my post, the contrast and contradictions of others, are aids to focusing my mind and solidifying, in my mind, my stance on whatever I believe to be true. Which is why feel no need for defense or argument.
---joseph on 4/14/14

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"The first as established>Isa.45:18, then destroyed>Jer 4:20,27. The second as a restoration>Gen.1:2. The third earth age is yet to come."-joseph on 4/13/14
This is a poor doctrine called the Gap theory, which is based on a misinterpretation of Jer 4. The foundation is: How do we fit what "science" says about the age of the Earth into the Bible without distrupting its Truth?
Answer: lets find a spot to put an undetermined amount of years and find scripture that seems to correspond with this non-event.
Eisegesis at its finest!
---micha9344 on 4/13/14

Judy consider these verses (Prov.8:29>Isa.40:21) and the plural use of the word "foundations" which translates from the word (mowcadah-a founding or act of laying a foundation) or (Isa.51:13>Job.38:4) where foundations translates from the word (yacah-to found, fix, lay,or establish a foundation) or Psa.104:5 where foundations translates from the word (makown-fixed or established foundation). All verses are applicable to the earth, and the plural use of the word implies multiples. Not as in multiple earths, but rather earth ages. The first as established>Isa.45:18, then destroyed>Jer 4:20,27. The second as a restoration>Gen.1:2. The third earth age is yet to come.
---joseph on 4/13/14

Judy Anything can be possible but not true unless you have solid Bible proof its a fact. I heard them too and I think its just an attempt to explain how science says earth is millions of years old and it seems the creation story in the Bible doesn't allow for that. I am very old fashioned or whatever you want to call it,I believe my God has enough power to do anything and He gave us the Bible to be our guide not men,therefore I don't have to conjure up stories to explain away things I don't quite have the knowledge to explain. Just trust God's Word and don't worry about things that can't be proven. Be careful to never be taken in by things that sound good,if they were God would have told us so. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 4/11/14

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