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True Meaning Of Destroy

What is the true meaning of the word "destroy" in it's forms of being a VERB and an ADJECTIVE? As in the Greek Concordance word #622?

Let's do some studying here.

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 ---Gordon on 7/10/14
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I agree with you Luke that GOD will not inflict unjust punishment.

The Doctrine of eternal torture in hell does teach that the punishment for all sins is being kept alive in a lake of fire for all eternity. Eternal torment is what some websites say.

Even those children who only did one sin before they died. It also teaches some will burn longer even though they sinned less.

I am not making this up. Go through some of the websites and history on descriptions of hell.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/18/14


Dear Samuel,
Again, let it go. You believe in whatever you desire. It is ok brother. I really do not mind. I only minded when you made things up or when you said something terrible about God, just because you do not want to accept the word of God. In hell there will be no cruelty. For it is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand. That is the God of the Bible. Agape
---Luke on 8/18/14


Luke I do believe that all the wicked will receive a just punishment from GOD and then die the second death.

What I oppose is the doctrine of eternal torment of all who do not accept JESUS as their savior in the fiery hell of torment for immortal souls.

From a description of hell.

"A place of hopelessness and suffering - But through this painful anguishing time... imagine if you can if that pain was multiplied many times over and you would never have hope of it ever going away forever? You would do anything to die to get rid of the pain, but it would always remain and continue forever and ever and ever. THIS IS HELL!"
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/14


Samuel, again, no one has said anything about babies been tortured. That is all in you mind. Hey, look, I believe you and I have said enough concerning hell. You do not have to believe in hell if you do not want to.
Any more exchange of passages gets us nowhere since you will continue to say things never talked about. You keep making things up because you do not want to believe that those who rebelled against God, who are without Christ, will endure punishment for what they have done. They do not deserve mercy. You feel they some how are innocent and should be treated the same as those whom God had mercy on. Even us, we didn't deserve mercy, but we got mercy. Agape
---Luke on 8/15/14


Mar 9:47,48

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Where are the words torture or screaming in pain or everlasting life in hell?

Nope not here. The passage it is partially quoting from calls them corpses or dead bodies not living people.

So again there is not Bible statement of this hellish doctrine.

Is it fair to torture small children for all eternity?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/14/14




Samuel, you gave (Isaiah 66:24) and say,
//It does not picture people screaming in agony as they are being tortured. Which is the current doctrine of hell.//

What you did was took one part of Scripture out of context. "for their worm does not die and their fire is not quench, They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" Here the corpses of those enduring everlasting torment will serve as a vivid reminder to all the grievous nature and terrible consequences of rebellion against God. In referring to the verse Jesus referred to the Valley of Hinnom- Gehenna-where a continually burning trash -heap " pictured the never ending pain of the lost (Mark 9:47,48).
---Luke on 8/14/14


Ashes being walked on does not picture people being tortured in hell.

You are right it is a picture of what happens though. Since the dead are burnt up.


Isaiah 66:24 NASB

Then they will go forth and look on the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm will not die
And their fire will not be quenched,
And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.

Like this pictures the dead bodies in the trash heap of Gehenna.

It does not picture people screaming in agony as they are being tortured. Which is the current doctrine of hell.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/13/14


Samuel,
Now you give (Malachi 4:1) to show that people are burn to death. What Malachi was doing, is he was giving an imaginary picture of the wicked in hell. It was not literal. He did not see hell and the wicked burning to death and dying. When the Bible writer says, "a place of torment where the worm doesn't turn or die" It does not mean there is a worm there turning. These are symbols of what happens in hell. These images are indeed symbols and the function of a symbol is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain.
The only way you are going to know the truth is if you have a passion for the Truth, not a passion for what doctrines you believe in. Agape
---Luke on 8/9/14


The problem is Gordon is your sentence does not make sense according to the definitions of the words.

It is like saying the green line is not green because it is green.

You say the dead are not dead but alive but they are dead. Being alive in eternal torture is still being alive.

The Bible says they will be destroyed. But you say it does not mean destroyed.


Malichi 4:1

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Is this verse true as I believe or is it a lie as you say?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/8/14


Samuel, When you refer to those in Damnation, it is not accurate to use the term "Eternal Life".

"Eternal Life", as it's called, belongs only to those who shall dwell with GOD forever in Heaven.

Yes, those in eternal Damnation shall be "alive" forever in the Lake of Fire, but, what they have is not the "Eternal Life" like the Saints have in Heaven.
GOD calls "Life" that which HIS people have by Yahushua HIS Son.

Eternal Death is what the Damned have, again, though they are alive to experience it all.

Learn what "Life" really is, Samuel.
And you will see that Life is not what the Damned have, even though they be alive in eternal Torments.
---Gordon on 8/8/14




I thank you Luke for your prayers. I pray for you also as well as all those who read these words.

I have never used the words of Fudge or Ellen White to prove my doctrine. I have posted Bible verse after Bible verse. Many of which are never answered.

I have answered and shown the meaning of every Bible verse presented to me that tries to show I am mistaken.

The wages of sin is death and destruction. Not eternal life. Romans 6:23 Matthew 10:28 2Thes. 2:8 Rev 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8

Have you studied all the Bible says about the resurrection of the dead? Every single verse?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/8/14


Dear Samuel,
You should stop listening to Fudge and even Ellen White. That is your problem. You read something they say as if it was Truth. And then you fight for it even when you are wrong. Anyway, I still love you and pray that God will open your heart to the truth. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I am talking about believers. But you have to belief it. It can mention that many times, but you have to believe it. Agape
---Luke on 8/8/14


But Luke I have studied the subject of what the Soul is and what happens at death. Reading books on both sides and listening to teachers such as Fudge. Have you done so?

Gordon in the story which is a story it is not Paradise and hell but Abrahams Bosom and a place of torment. So you have to actually change the story to get your doctrine of the immortal soul out of a story on a different point.
So both of you take some time and study about the doctrine of the Resurrection. Just type in the word in a Bible search engine and read every verse on the topic and then look at them in context.

Something I have done and redone. Then tell what you have learned about the purpose of the Resurrection of the dead.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/7/14


Samuel,
We die and are immediately in Hell or in Paradise (3rd Heaven), just as Yahushua pointed out to us in that Story.
So, coming to the conclusion as to what the main meaning of the Story in Luke 16 is does not overshadow the reality it tells us of what really happens to us the moment we die.
---Gordon on 8/7/14


Dear Samuel,
Again, I say, if you want to speak concerning any topic in Scripture you should study the subject first. The Scriptures not only bear witness to the rational human soul of Jesus but also His human spirit.
"When Jesus had thus said, He was troubled in the spirit" John 13:21). And as far as His soul, we are told,
"My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death" Matthew 26:38). There is much more to learn.
---Luke on 8/6/14


Jesus didn't have a human spirit?
---micha9344 on 8/5/14


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Did Jesus cease to be for three days?

---micha9344

Since JESUS is both GOD and man that is not possible.

Regular people sleep in death and our Sprit goes to GOD.

But JESUS is not a regular person.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/4/14


Did Jesus cease to be for three days?
---micha9344 on 8/4/14


Thank you for your prayers Luke you are in mine.

I put down here what the Bible says and ask the HOLY SPIRIT to teach those who read from the Word of GOD.

For only the HOLY SPIRIT can teach the truth to anyone.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/3/14


Samuel,
I pray for you everyday. You might not believe it but I do. I pray in the spirit. Because I now have that spiritual life together with
Christ.
Second, People who are dead are not asleep. They are dead turning to aches. The Bible uses asleep to represent death. But Jesus Himself said, that when He mentioned Lazarus was asleep, He did not mean really asleep but dead.
Third, I am not here to convince you of anything. I put down the Truth and leave the rest to God. I have no power to change your heart. Agape
---Luke on 8/3/14


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Yes Luke we live a Spiritual life in an earthly realm where all our earthly decisions are guided by our Relationship with JESUS. So yes we live a Spiritual life and those who do not are not Born Again. But the Bible says the Spirit of all humans returns to GOD. Not just a few. Ecclesiastes 12:7. The Bible says we are asleep I Corinthians 15:20-24,53,54 and JESUS has to come back to get us.
So unless you can show me from the Bible that the dead are not asleep and that the soul is immortal and cannot die like the Bible says then I cannot change from what I believe. Matthew 10:28 and I Timothy 6:16 and 2 Timothy 1:10
Please read and pray about these verses. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/1/14


Gordon

Meaning of rich man Lazarus Parable.

The rich do not automatically go to heaven. Nor are the poor cursed of GOD.

It is also applies to how the Jews looked at non-Jews.

To get the physical properties in the Parable to be true, such as putting a finger in water and dropping it on a tongue. Our bodies would have to go to Abrahams bosom not paradise which how large can that be? Do non-Jews go there? The Body of Lazarus did go there since the angels took him.
Luke 16:31.
This Parable as listed in many commentaries also has a prophecy which JESUS fulfilled by resurrecting Lazarus his friend.
Which is the reason Lazaruss name is used here.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/1/14


Samuel,
you are missing the whole concept of what the Christian life is while we are alive. It is a spiritual experience. It is a spiritual birth, it is a spiritual salvation, it is a spiritual life together with Christ.
You are thinking in the flesh, not as a born again Christian. Of course the bodies of those who have died are in the graves. But their live with Christ is a spiritual life. That happens only once when God makes you spiritually alive together with Christ Eph. 2:4-8.
It is a one time event. The spirit of man never dies or goes to sleep.
These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual." 1 Cor. 2:13.
---Luke on 8/1/14


Samuel, In Luke 16 Yahushua (JESUS) told that Story as a fact, as if it were something that has occurred or does occur.

In Luke 16, Yahushua said that the rich man died and found himself in Hell.
There was no "soul-sleeping waiting period" in-between the moment of death and him being in the tormenting flame of Hell. If there IS a "space of time" you will have to show that from the Luke 16 Story.

Lazarus died and went straight to the Bosom of Abraham (Paradise) while the rich man died and was in Hell.

Yahushua gave this Story because that is how it happens. Yahushua never lies, nor does He exaggerate ever to have to make a point about something. He always tells it like it is.
---Gordon on 7/31/14


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Yes Luke it is. You're correct the dead are in the grave and being prepared for heaven or hell.
Gordon where does the Bible say the dead go to hell or heaven at death? Why does the Bible say they are in the Grave?

John 5:28,29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Why are they judged to hell or heaven before the judgment day? How are they alive if they are dead?

Why does the Bible say we are a soul?

Genesis 2:7 ...man became a living soul.

Why is soul also translated as a living being or person?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/31/14


Samuel, Those who have died in their sins from ages past up 'til today are, indeed, alive in Hell.

Hell is a temporary "holding cell" for them until Judgment Day.

Their flesh-and-blood bodies are expired and are returned to the dust of the earth.

But, their souls are alive in Hell being tormented.

That's their lot for remaining in their sins and for rejecting the only Way of Salvation (Yahushua/JESUS CHRIST).
---Gordon on 7/30/14


Samuel,
No problem, I am here to help you if you need to understand the resurrection of the body which are in the graves of those who are being prepared for heaven and those being prepared for hell.
It is good you are starting to get it. If you do not see your spiritual life with Christ already, I don't think you ever will.
When a person is stuck in a false doctrine, it's very hard for them to ever see their mistakes.
But if God wants a person to understand their position in Christ, that person will understand. Agape
---Luke on 7/30/14


John 5:28,29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Thank you Luke for reminding me of this verse.

Yes Gordon Hell or the Grave and the Lake of Fire are not the same place. Remember Hades is also translated as the grave.

It is some here who teach the dead are awake and in hell being tortured when they do not have bodies and who bodiless want water.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/29/14


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Samuel, Hell and the Lake of Fire are not the same places.

Up until Judgment Day, all who die in their sins, the Damned, land in Hell (Hades, Sheol).

Then, at Judgment Day, all of the Damned are brought up to stand before GOD at His Great White Throne.

There, they are all finally cast alive into the Lake of Fire to spend Eternity.

Two separate places, Sam.

Hell at the first "death",
the Lake of Fire at their "second death".

It's just as Scripture says in REVELATION 20:14

"And Death and HELL were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the Second Death."
---Gordon on 7/29/14


Dear Richard,
The Bible speaks of the resurrection of believers and the resurrection of unbelievers.
"Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which "all who are in the graves" will hear His voice and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation" John 5:28,29).
Rev. 20:11) tells us that at the Great White Throne of Judgment, the lost will be standing before God. This are those who did evil who will be sentenced to hell.
---Luke on 7/29/14


Luke - The lost need new bodies prepared for hell ?
Luke were are you getting that from ? - I have the saved get new bodies in ! Corinthains 15:44 - but I don't know were you find the unsaved get new bodies ?
---RichardC on 7/28/14


//We agree Luke on why there is a resurrection 7/25/14. But why do we need bodies if when we die we already have bodies?//


Samuel,
You asked why? Because our bodies are corrupt, and mortal. We need new bodies that are glorified prepared for heaven. The lost need new bodies prepared for hell. I do not know why you even asked the question. This you should already know. Why? Because God said we needed a glorified body.
When we use the word hell, the norm is that hell is the final place of the lost. We know what it's meaning is from Scripture. It does not have to be repeated over and over. You can say hell means something else, as many times as you want, but when we talk of hell, we mean the final place of the lost. Agape
---Luke on 7/26/14


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We agree Luke on why there is a resurrection 7/25/14. But why do we need bodies if when we die we already have bodies?
Gordon Hades is Greek and is also translated as Grave.
Sheol is the Hebrew word translated as hell, pit, place of the dead and Grave. See Strongs.
You say hades always means hell. Why do Bible translators also say it means the grave? Same questions for Sheol? Why if they are in hell are they taken out of hell to be judged worthy of hell then put back in the same place they were before?
Yes Gehenna or the lake of Fire is the Second death. Agreed.
Why would JESUS be so cruel as to pull a person out of Paradise so they would have to die again?
Why is paradise never mentioned in the Old Testament?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/25/14


Samuel, The LORD can call back one who has died and gone to Paradise in Heaven.

The LORD has that Power.

Our understanding of what happens at Death is greater now, today, than ever before.

Just as our ability to receive World-wide news is greater and quicker than it has ever been.

There are people who've had near-death experiences, who've gone to Heaven and back within a matter of days.

Some to Hell, also.
A handful to the lake of Fire.

GOD can do anything.

Lazarus died, went to Paradise, and, four days later, the Lord YAHUSHUA (JESUS) calls him back again to Earth.
---Gordon on 7/25/14


Samuel,
Those who perished in Sodom and Gomorrah are in Hell, not in the Lake of Fire.

All Scriptural mentionings of "Fire and Brimstone" do not pertain only to the future Lake of Fire.

The Lake of Fire is indeed the Second Death.

"Hades", "Pit" and "Sheol" all refer to Hell.

"Gehenna" is a name for the Lake of Fire (so named after the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem).

The first time the wicked die, they land in Hell.
Their Second Death is after they're brought up from Hell to stand before GOD on Judgment Day.
Then, afterwards, they're cast alive into the Lake of Fire where they'll remain throughout Eternity.
---Gordon on 7/25/14


//Why is there a Resurrection of the dead?//

Samuel,
It is impossible for me to make you see something, you are not willing to see. You even asked why there is a resurrection of the dead?
Didn't you read the passages in 1 Corinthians 15? Because our physical bodies are sinful. They have not being redeemed. They are corrupt and mortal. The dead will rise, according to (1 Thess. 4:16)
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
---Luke on 7/25/14


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Thank you Markeaton

Luke JESUS did not correct Martha to say no the dead go to heaven or hell at death. They do not have to wait for the Resurrection. So he did not say she was wrong.

Instead He raised Lazarus to life right then. Which in your view means he called him back from Paradise.

But He called Lazarus out of the grave. Just like he talked about in the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus. But the Jewish leaders plotted to murder Lazarus.


John 12:10

But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death,

Why is there a Resurrection of the dead?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/24/14


What do you mean by that? I do not get your point. Can you please explain?
---Luke on 7/24/14

Based on your previous comments, you seem to side with the opinion that the phrase "eternal punishment" means that the soul is punished continually for the duration of eternity and the soul never dies.

I side with the opinion that the phrase "eternal punishment" means that the soul is punished (usually quickly) but the effect is eternal with the annihilation of the soul.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/24/14


Dear Gordon,
I agree with what you said. It speaks of the towns, but it really means those who lived in the towns. Agape

Dear Mark E. you gave this answer,
"You said it. God's judgment will last forever against these cities but it took little time to accomplish the judgment./'

What do you mean by that? I do not get your point. Can you please explain? Fire is the Second Judgment, the ending of all things. The first was water. Agape
---Luke on 7/24/14


// Martha did not believe the dead where in Heaven she like me believed in the Resurrection.//

Samuel,
Martha was wrong. Jesus corrected her. He was speaking of that very moment He was the resurrection and the life.
"He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me, shall never die" Jesus even said to her,
"Do you believe this?" Martha realized she was wrong when He brought Lazarus back to physical life.
All who are born of The Spirit are spiritually united with Christ forever.
Jude 14 tells us that at the Second Coming, the Lord comes with ten thousand saints. You say the saints are not with Christ right now. I say you are wrong.
---Luke on 7/24/14


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John 11:24-26

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Notice this promise is made in light of the Resurrection of the dead. Not that the dead are alive some place else.

Also not Martha did not believe the dead where in Heaven she like me believed in the Resurrection.

Why do you thinks Martha talked about the Resurrection and not going to heaven at death?

Where was Lazarus when JESUS called him?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/23/14


The problem Gordon is that the fire that fell is like the lake of Fire, or Gehenna.

So you are saying that the wicked of S & G are already in Gehenna. But according to the Bible that Lake of Fire does not exist yet.

It does not come about until after the Great White Throne Judgment.

So yes the People did suffer the Eternal fire and died in the fire. But we cannot go there and listen to them scream in agony right now because the fire killed them.

Just as the Lake of Fire will kill all the wicked in the second death.

What do you think second death means?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/23/14


Sodom and Gomorrah were judged because of the sin of it's citizens.

It was the citizens who were judged.

GOD did not just burn up a bunch of houses and buildings.

It was chiefly the citizens that GOD was targeting with the fire and brimstone.

So, when we talk of what suffered GOD's "Vengeance of eternal Fire" (JUDE 1:7), we are talking about it's citizens, the people, of Sodom and Gomorrah suffering GOD's Vengeance of eternal Fire.

That means the SOULS of those who lived in Sodom and Gomorrah are suffering the Vengeance of "Eternal Fire", which is Hell.

The cities of S & G are a picture of what their citizen's souls are suffering forever in the fires of Hell.
---Gordon on 7/23/14


//But your contention is that they are not asleep but living and awake someplace else. In fact you even point out that they are awaiting the resurrection. Which is true but negates your understanding that they are already one place or the other and not asleep.//

Samuel,
what you forget is that our salvation is a spiritual salvation. God made us alive together with Christ, spiritually. We are already, right now, spiritually baptized into one body in Christ forever. I quote Jesus,
"He who believes in Me though he may die (physically) he shall live. And whoever lives (physically) and believes in Me, shall never die. Do you believe this?"
You are thinking in the flesh and not in the spirit. Agape
---Luke on 7/23/14


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...you seem to accept my point about Elijah. So we have 50% agreement. Now does firstborn always mean first? Colossians 1:18 could also mean having preeminence instead of being literal...
---Samuelbb7 on 7/22/14

I have no idea what happened to Elijah but I do know his earthly flesh is not with the Lord. However, I believe his soul is with the Lord.

As I read it, Col 1:18 already contains the word preeminence in it. Why repeat the same meaning with a different word? Also, immediately before the word firstborn are the words "who is the beginning" or "who is the start".

Sounds like firstborn means first to me.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/22/14


Mark_Eaton
Good point about the destruction of the cities.
Well Mark Eaton you seem to accept my point about Elijah. So we have 50% agreement. Now does firstborn always mean first? Colossians 1:18 could also mean having preeminence instead of being literal.

Notice all the verses that I pointed out to Luke.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 7/22/14


...the destruction of these cities is used 20 times in Scripture as an illustration of God's judgment during the days of Abraham and lot...
---Luke on 7/22/14

You said it. God's judgment will last forever against these cities but it took little time to accomplish the judgment.

The final judgment against unbelievers will be no different. The actions taken will have eternal consequences, but the carrying out of the sentence will take little time.

Second Death is what the Bible calls it. Our first Death is an ending of this life. The Second Death is an ending of the life of our soul.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/22/14


Dear Mark E,
You mentioned Jude 1:7, and the city of Sodom and Gomorrah. Here the context the destruction of these cities is used 20 times in Scripture as an illustration of God's judgment during the days of Abraham and lot (Gen. 18:22-19:29) The destruction was in view of their apostasy since it occurred about 450 years after the flood, when at least one of Noah's sons Shem was still living. These message Noah preached and the people rejected.
Sodom and Gomorrah illustrate God's fire of earthly judgment (Rev. 16:8,9: 20:9) which was only a preview of the fire that never be quenched in eternal hell (Matt. 3:12: 18:8: 25:41: Mark 9:43,44,46,48: Luke 3:17: Rev. 19:20). The fire is everlasting because God is everlasting, for He is the fire.
---Luke on 7/22/14


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So JESUS spoke to a Translated and resurrected people. Also two who knew about trials.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/18/14

Nice theory, but Biblically false.

Col 1:8 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence"

Jesus was the first person resurrected from the dead.

Moses could not have been resurrected from the dead and spoken to Jesus at the Transfiguration if Jesus is TRULY the first.

Either Colossians is incorrect or your theory is.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/22/14


Yes Luke it says they physically died or went to sleep.

But your contention is that they are not asleep but living and awake someplace else. In fact you even point out that they are awaiting the resurrection. Which is true but negates your understanding that they are already one place or the other and not asleep.


Ecc 9:5

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing...


Psalms 115:17

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Your teaching is that these are false lying verses.

Explain.
Thank you Markeaton and LoveJesus good points.
Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 7/21/14


There is actually no Greek word which can accurately be translated Everlasting or Eternal.
---love.jesus on 7/21/14


Everlasting contempt.
There is more.
---Luke on 7/21/14

Many more, but please know that the word "everlasting" can mean its duration and it can also mean its final disposition.

For example, lets look at a simple verse, Jude 1:7.

Jude 1:7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire"

Sodom is no longer burning. The city no longer exists and the fire is not burning eternally.

However, the punishment of Sodom is for all eternity. The city was destroyed and for all eternity will never return.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/21/14


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2 Samuel 7:12, talking about when they are physically dead together with their fathers God will set up one of their seeds who will come from Israel "the Messiah."
1 kings 1:21, is talking again about when the king dies physically.
Job 7:21 Job is convinced he must have sinned, and ask why God will not pardon him before he dies and it will be too late then to be pardon.
Ps. 13:3 David ask God to hear him and enlighten his eyes before he physically dies.
Dan. 12:2 is speaking of the resurrection concerning believers who are physically dead shall rise with a new glorified body some to everlasting Life (2 Cor. 5:10) and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Rev. 20:11-15). Hear that? Everlasting contempt.
There is more.
---Luke on 7/21/14


Sheol is ALSO the Hebrew word for "Underworld", "Hell" and "Pit". -Gordon

Yes and the grave to. So all the words have to be a type of synonym which points they have something in common as to meaning. Which fits with my understanding of when a person dies they are asleep not in heaven.
Dear Luke
The problem for you is that I keep giving Bible verses that show what I say. You just keep saying I am wrong. Please give me the Bible verses that agree with your point and tell me what these verse mean.
2Sa 7:12, 1Ki 1:21, Job 7:21, 14:12, Psalms 13:3, Daniel 12:2, 1Co 11:30, 15:51

John 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/20/14


//Praise the LORD Mark for your stand on Conditionalism. It is such a more loving doctrine then the eternal torture so often presented.//

Dear Samuel,
There is many loving doctrines out there, but that does not make them truth. Only the doctrines that teach the truth are correct. Maybe in your mind you cannot possibly agree how many could be punished for a long time. And you feel that it is wrong to do that. But the Bible was not written on how you feel or what you think is right and what is wrong. It is written the way God has decreed all things to be. Your feelings and mine mean zero. You keep making things up that are not written in Scripture and say, "this is the way it is." But it is not. Agape
---Luke on 7/19/14


Samuel, The Damned are "being placed inside a Greek god??" That's getting off track of what's being discussed.

Both the Greek god and the abode of the Damned are both called Hades, yes indeed,
but, they are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ALTOGETHER,
and are not even relative one to the other.

"Hell" is the English word for "UNDERWORLD"
"Sheol" is the same in Hebrew.
"Hades" likewise, in Greek.

Sheol is NOT JUST "grave", Samuel.....

Sheol is ALSO the Hebrew word (#7585) for "Underworld", "Hell" and "Pit".
---Gordon on 7/18/14


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There is too much Biblical evidence that refutes soul sleep. I recently suggested one on another Blog, the Transfiguration of Jesus. How do you explain the appearance of Moses and Elijah if their souls are asleep?

Mark_Eaton

Praise the LORD Mark for your stand on Conditionalism. It is such a more loving doctrine then the eternal torture so often presented.

Good question. The Easy part is Elijah since he was translated directly to heaven and never died. We believe in part based on Jude that Moses was resurrected. So JESUS spoke to a Translated and resurrected people. Also two who knew about trials.

GOD bless and keep you. Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 7/18/14


//GOD does not destroy the souls of anyone until after the day of the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11
It is my understanding that he will not torture children and adults forever in a burning fire. But that he will destroy all those who refuse to follow JESUS and love others. //

Dear Samuel,
You are speculating, or adding to Scripture what is not there. First, Revelation 20:11, nowhere does it speak about destroying anyone. You added to Scripture.
Second, nothing concerning children is mention in Scripture. That you made up. What we know is that God will punish those people without Christ for sinning against Him. They will suffer. Little is known about children. Whatever there is, is made up by man. Agape
---Luke on 7/18/14


Where Conditionalism understands that Sheol or Hades, both translated as hell, are also translated as the Grave. Which should be the major meaning for all the time those verses are used. Means the dead go to their grave. Which is why we see bodies in the coffin...
---Samuelbb7 on 7/17/14

While I support the understanding that the soul is ultimately annihilated in the Second Death, I do not support the understanding of Soul Sleep.

There is too much Biblical evidence that refutes soul sleep. I recently suggested one on another Blog, the Transfiguration of Jesus. How do you explain the appearance of Moses and Elijah if their souls are asleep?
---Mark_Eaton on 7/17/14


So, GOD destroys one's soul in Hell, and later brings them up to cast them in the Lake of Fire.

---Gordon


Which is what Traditional hell doctrine teaches. According to that doctrine. The wicked dead, before the day of Judgment, are cast in to fire.

Then they are taken out and judged then cast back into a lake of fire.

Where Conditionalism understands that Sheol or Hades, both translated as hell, are also translated as the Grave. Which should be the major meaning for all the time those verses are used. Means the dead go to their grave. Which is why we see bodies in the coffin.

Hades is also the Greek god of the dead. So you could say they are being placed inside a Greek god.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/17/14


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Mark Eaton, I brought up the subject of what 'destroy' means as it pertains to the Second Death.

What it really means to be destroyed when one is in Hell and, later on, cast into the Lake of Fire.

What it means when GOD destroys one's soul in Hell and in the Lake of Fire.

(Hell and the Lake of Fire are two separate places. They are not the same place, btw.)

The Bible says that GOD is "able to destroy both soul and body in Hell."
MATTHEW 10:28b

So, GOD destroys one's soul in Hell, and later brings them up to cast them in the Lake of Fire.
---Gordon on 7/17/14


Hello, Bro.Luke great the way you explain your post 7/16/14
I used to be fearfull,terrified..
that verse would pop into my head!
We don't have be intimidated by people, be in constant fear. That verse speaks volumns! God's power..
Luke12:4,5.
My english not all that, I forget how to spell but you know what I am trying to say Spanish is my language.
Love of Jesus!
---Elena_9555 on 7/16/14


He has the power to destroy soul and body, those other people do not. It does not mean God is destroying souls, but he can if He so wills.
---Luke on 7/16/14

In this parallel passage Jesus states to be afraid of the one who after he kills, will cast the victim into hell. If we use this passage with Matt 10:28 together, we can see that after he kills, the victim will be cast into hell, and the soul destroyed.

Luke 12:4-5 "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell, yes, I say to you, fear Him!"
---Mark_Eaton on 7/16/14


He has the power to destroy soul and body, those other people do not. It does not mean God is destroying souls, but he can if He so wills. Agape Luke

Agreed. GOD does not destroy the souls of anyone until after the day of the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11

It is my understanding that he will not torture children and adults forever in a burning fire. But that he will destroy all those who refuse to follow JESUS and love others.

Do you believe that since GOD has the power to destroy the wicked that he will continue to torture people?

Why since the wages of sin is death and there is a second death. Romans 6:23, Revelation 20:6,14
---Samuelbb7 on 7/16/14


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//Mat 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.//

Dear Samuel,
You keep mentioning that passage to support your view that soul are being destroyed. But that is not what the passage is saying. It is teaching that God has all power, not to be afraid of those who had called the master of the house Beelzebub, and they will say a lot more cruel words to the believers (Matt. 10:25). To not be afraid of them, to be afraid of the One who has all power. God.
He has the power to destroy soul and body, those other people do not. It does not mean God is destroying souls, but he can if He so wills. Agape
---Luke on 7/16/14


But my point is that in any context some refuse to accept that what a word means cannot be changed by the Theology of a person.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/15/14

But Samuel, in reading the Bible context is everything. Just like location is everything in real estate.

Context must be considered when determining the correct meaning of a word. Bible translators considered context when determining the correct word in the target language. Context cannot be overlooked.

However, our theology must be forgotten when reading Bible passages. We must not read the Bible with a prior intention or be looking with a specific theology in mind. We must let the HS tell us what the passage says.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/15/14


Well I am not Mark.

But my point is that in any context some refuse to accept that what a word means cannot be changed by the Theology of a person.

That all should accept the meaning of a word according to the definition of that word. So that we can actually discuss what the Bible says.

But some say this word means this based on what they believe instead of the actual meaning of the word.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/15/14


And, most of those meanings of "destroy", if not, at least 99% of them, do not mean "annihilation" or ceasing to exist at all.
---Gordon on 7/11/14

How about letting us in on the secret, Gordon? Why does this one word matter so much to you?

In other words, what is the context of the word you wish to discuss? Is the context the Second Death? Is the context the Law of Moses?

Please explain.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/14/14


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Psa 145:20

The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.


Mat 5:17

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Mat 27:20

But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.


Mat 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

In all these verse destroy means to get rid of remove from existence. Yet some say that some of these verse do not mean what they say.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/13/14


"Erase " is the meaning of that "destroy " that comes to my mind at this time. HE did not come to erase or cancel God spiritual principles but to help us to fulfill them through the love we receive from HIM & that we have to extend to others.
---Adetunji on 7/13/14


Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to DESTROY the law



---jerry6593 on 7/13/14


"To be forever undone,
to be forever without value,
to be forever without purpose,
to be forever in a state of destruction."
---Gordon on 7/11/14


I agree Gordon: To forever not have it together (incomplete) ~ to forever be unfruitful (unprofitable) ~ to forever drift aimlessly ~ to be forever in a state of wreckage, a condition of ruination: IN A STATE OF TOTAL CAOUS & CONFUSION -- HELL.
---Leon on 7/11/14


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And, most of those meanings of "destroy", if not, at least 99% of them, do not mean "annihilation" or ceasing to exist at all.

Rather, the meanings denote something even more horrific.

To be forever undone,
to be forever without value,
to be forever without purpose,
to be forever in a state of destruction.
---Gordon on 7/11/14


Greek #622 verb
"To destroy fully, to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin, to render useless, to kill, to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed."
"The KJV translates Strongs G622 in the following manner: perish (33x), destroy (26x), lose (22x), be lost (5x), lost (4x), misc (2x)."
From: #575 " denoting separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal. And #3639 ruin, death, punishment.
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life..." Rom 6:23
---Josef on 7/11/14


destroy, broken to the point that it is unrepairable. Jesus said I have come to destroy the works enemy. Most believe satan is gone. If that was so why then did the Apostles go around healing people and casting out demons even after Jesus had ascended into heaven. Destroyed still means destroyed. Destroy is the noun Jesus used to explain what he did. But what is the time? This is the time of the New Covanant. Soon it will be the end time. You have Adam's time Abraham's time, Moses's time, now you have Jesus's time. Soon there will be end time. That is the destroyed time of satan. Which in heaven has already happen. Remember John saw the beginning and the end. Revelations. Wrote about it.
---Bryan on 7/11/14


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