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Two World Floods

I found a guy Robert Dean Luginbill, Ph.D. (his phd. is in classical) wrote a book how Noah's flood was second flood and first destroyed earth prior to Satan's rebellion. I have pastor who believes this. Thoughts?

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Trav on 9/6/14

Agree
---chria9396 on 9/6/14


Warwick, thanks for your answer. I will support you when I can. Of course if I see something I do not agree with I will answer you kindly. So far, in my opinion, you have done great. I just hope that encourages you for the glory of God. Agape
---Luke on 9/6/14


The Bible and science are not in conflict. GOD created all laws of the sciences. There is no conflict between them, only errors of men mis-interpreting for their own selfish/wicked reasons.
This misunderstanding and meaningless debates are of men's misinterpretations. One side holding foolish doctrines of men vs science rejecting. There is one Truth, the doctrinal fanatic expert and fanatic scientist miss it.
The answer lies with the only teacher....not with men we honor.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
---Trav on 9/6/14


Luke, we appear to be getting confused by language here. I appreciate that you have given me support, and hope you will continue to do so. I was not rejecting your support but simply saying you do not need to worry (but can give support) as that which the various compromisers write is not a challenge to me.
---Warwick on 9/5/14


Warwick,
I was trying to support you and you told me not to be concern about you. That tells me you do not need any support concerning the word of God.
Some people here do not want support or thanks. They tell me not to thank them. So little by little I try to respond to only those who are thankful. I know we cannot change anyone's heart. Only God can when we give the Truth. He always has someone preaching it. I was not against you but for you. Thanks for your answer. Agape
---Luke on 9/5/14




Luke I am happy to receive your support so I do not understand why you would write "I will do my best to not give you any support concerning your answers from now on. I will choose very carefully whom I support." This makes it appear I have offended you.
---Warwick on 9/4/14


Dear Warwick,
You gave great answers. But do not expect for your answers to have much effect on Trav. For a long time he has mention you as a teacher who does not know anything, as if he is the only one who does.
---Luke on 9/3/14

His answers are pretty. Usually his logic doctrine, his or some revered personality he puts above scripture. Noticed years ago that rarely are these "answers" scripturally verified by multiple witnesses....there in lies my total disregard for this "self exalted prcher-man".
Should we uphold scripture or men?
My scripture has witnesses.
2Co_13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
---Trav on 9/4/14


If anyone defends the word of God, as written, without compromise with worldly ideas they must expect opposition.
---Warwick on 9/3/14

But, you flatter yourself (again). We've no opposition, utilizing your post, I point for the sheep, who will research faulty doctrines. The same sheep Christ looked for and commanded his Apostles to seek.
Expect men such as yourself to veer widely....but, not the Apostles. Expect men of superstition to dialogue by it.
Tit_1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Jer_50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray,.....
---Trav on 9/4/14


Dear Warwick,
I have never being concern for you. Not one time. I am not worried that some how you are going to be convince any different then you already believe. I will do my best to not give you any support concerning your answers from now on. I will choose very carefully whom I support. Agape
---Luke on 9/4/14


Dear Ken,
there was only one flood. In the beginning God was just beginning to form the earth. Waters did cover the landscape, but it was not a flood. Noah's flood was the first judgment by God, and it was universal. The next judgment will be with fire. Agape
---Luke on 9/4/14




Luke, thank you for your comments. However you do not need to be concerned about me. If anyone defends the word of God, as written, without compromise with worldly ideas they must expect opposition. I do not find any offence in Trav's mutterings.


---Warwick on 9/3/14


I find it a little ironic when a BiblioSceptic who plays fast and loose with God's word says to me "I'll help you out as much as you can stand."
---Warwick on 9/3/14

I've extended a hand and simple proof in multiples. Only to have it bitten. Only one who self deceived chooses to ignore.
Myself a confirmed "preacher Skeptic", I am rewarded with confirming proof in print, in your comments and attacks. You're howling outside the "sheep scriptures", it shows by sign.

We both know your fears. Scripture has you outside the boat. One might come in the sheep gate, but not by climbing up the side of the boat.
Joe 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
---Trav on 9/3/14


I find it a little ironic when a BiblioSceptic who plays fast and loose with God's word says to me "I'll help you out as much as you can stand." Why would anyone go to a BiblioSceptic for help to understand Scripture? I may as well go to an atheist.
---Warwick on 9/3/14


//You say "Noah did not talk to God nor did he hear his voice." But Scripture says 'God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh,..."'Genesis 6:13. In fact Gods spoken commands to Noah continue to the chapter's end. Have you ever read the Bible?//

Dear Warwick,
You gave great answers. But do not expect for your answers to have much effect on Trav. For a long time he has mention you as a teacher who does not know anything, as if he is the only one who does. I also see there is a few others who do not like your answers. A hardened heart will not change unless the Holy Spirit changes it. Your teachings are right on brother, Agape
---Luke on 9/3/14


Envy is sad as it distorts reason. Is it not prudent to seek the counsel of the wise?
---Warwick on 9/2/14

Yes, I agree you should be prudent, and you shouldn't be scornfully envious of me. I'll help you out as much as you can stand. All you need is more scripture witnesses...with the smoking guns of fulfillment where it applies. Instead of "opinion". Scripture and me are a little ruff with you wanna be preacher types....but, if you can't walk the talk, you would get your feelings hurt less being a quiet legend in your own 600+ club mind.
I Won't turn aside, knowing truth.
Psa_40:4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
Pro_21:24
---Trav on 9/2/14


A casual reading of Genesis ch's 6-8 will show the great flood (given its own unique name "mabbul") was spoken of by God mostly from His perspective e.g. "And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered" Genesis 7:19 God is saying every existing mountain on the whole earth was to be covered by water therefore it is not a story of one family but of the whole world and its created life.

Strongs shows c24 meanings for 'erets' depending upon context e.g. Job 26:7 obviously the whole earth.

Envy is sad as it distorts reason. Is it not prudent to seek the counsel of the wise?
---Warwick on 9/2/14


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The context demands it be taken as the whole earth.
---Warwick on 9/1/14


Context can be taken as whole.
It was the whole "erets" land/country in which Noah resided+, "his" world. Not "your" world. The "heavens" over this "erets".
It is a very simple story, about one family that you attempt to blow out of researched, proven proportion. An attempt to change, known facts of truth. Knowlege is freeing us from your doctrines of "man". You scream you are wise and rail intellect by your professed friends, embracing ignorance, by doctrine. Desist instead, search for a sheep friend.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 9/2/14


In Genesis 1:1 at creation the Hebrew for the whole earth is "ha'arets."

In 6:12 when God says the earth was corrupted, again "ha'arets", therefore the whole earth.

6:13 where God says He will destroy all humans with the earth, again "ha'arets", therefore the whole earth.

In all these cases the same word is used to describe the whole earth. The context demands it be taken as the whole earth.
---Warwick on 9/1/14


Earl, John 5:37 has no connection to God talking to Noah. It concerns certain Jews who accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath, and of equating Himself with God. Of them He says you have never heard His voice or seen His form...

You say "Noah did not talk to God nor did he hear his voice." But Scripture says 'God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh,..."'Genesis 6:13. In fact Gods spoken commands to Noah continue to the chapter's end. Have you ever read the Bible?

You say the global flood of Noah never occurred however speaking of His future global coming Jesus equates it to the global flood of Noah "and the flood came and destroyed them all." Was Jesus wrong?
---Warwick on 8/31/14


earl: "John 5.37
Noah did not talk to God nor did he hear his voice.
This global flood in connection with Noah and the ark never happened."

Jesus was not talking to Noah in John 5:37, Noah was long dead.

Have you never read:

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me,?

If Noah's flood never happened, then there would not be layers of marine fossils worldwide, even on mountain tops. BUT THERE ARE!




---jerry6593 on 8/31/14


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//John 5.37
Noah did not talk to God nor did he hear his voice.
This global flood in connection with Noah and the ark never happened.
Jesus revealed the new truth revelation as to who is not able to directly speak to God//

Dear earl,
you are mistaken on all counts. Anyone can speak directly to God. God does not listen to everybody. In the passage in John 5:37) Jesus is speaking to the Jews who were seeking to kill Him (v. 18). Here they were speaking to Jesus, who is God, and yet they did not believe in Him. Agape
---Luke on 8/31/14


John 5.37
Noah did not talk to God nor did he hear his voice.
This global flood in connection with Noah and the ark never happened.
Jesus revealed the new truth revelation as to who is not able to directly speak to God
---earl on 8/30/14


There are those BiblioSceptics who invent Gaps in Scripture, plus billions of years, local floods, and undermine the gospel, compounding their error by insisting only Jews can be saved. And none of these ideas Scriptural. In fact they come from anti-Christian sites where you will find nonsensical ideas e.g. that Noah could not fit all the "species" upon the ark. That he would have needed 40+ arks! God says 1 ark-who do you trust?

From when I first began reading Scripture I knew God only had to place representatives of the various "kinds" on the ark, as all species have come from these original kinds. Basic science, but apparently new to a certain BiblioSceptic here!
---Warwick on 8/29/14


Noah would only need 2 bear kind ...

Anyone with a little genetic and Biblical knowledge should know this.
---Warwick on 8/28/14

You didn't know it until I pointed it out!
You've taken the lazy preacher path in most areas, the signs/marks you leave in passing.
You don't know how much cubic space it takes for any one animal or its food. Or there would be no argument, just shared research for truth.
You taken a free ride on a late term doctrine, and work to hinder bringing the son's and daughters by discrediting scripture. Assuming you've had influence, which you've none with me and mine, except negative.
Find some sheep for the next trip. Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
.
---Trav on 8/29/14


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When created and animals were given a vegetarian diet. It is therefore an assumption to believe animals were meat-eating in Flood times.

Supposed carnivores thrive on a vegetarian diet. In poor countries meat is too expensive for dogs and they survive fine without it!

Being human I am descended from Noah. The spurious idea that some humans are not descended from Noah comes from the imagination of local-flooders!

The local-flood idea also undermines the gospel placing death before sin, the opposite of what the NT says.
---Warwick on 8/28/14


That high mountains have marine fossils at their peaks means they were once under the sea, and have since risen. Fossils can form rapidly when covered by protecting sediments. However they have had thousands of years postFlood to fossilize/permineralize.

Genesis Ch.1 says God created creatures according to their "kinds." Genesis 6, regarding what went on the ark, echoes this (e.g. vs 20 "two of every 'kind' of bird." Kind (e.g. humankind) is different from a species, which have descended from original "kinds" Noah took kinds, not species. Noah would only need 2 bear kind as all bears today have come from the original kind.

Anyone with a little genetic and Biblical knowledge should know this.
---Warwick on 8/28/14


Relevant also is that the highest mountains on earth, including Everest have marine fossils at the top showing they were once under the sea.
---Warwick on 8/27/14

Fossils are a sign on Mountaintops. As sign of Gen 1 creation. Especially as they require being submerged for many years in pressurized muck to form rock.
Found in the Genesis 1 account before the land arose.
One year even 20 is not enough time.
My Bible and science unify, yours pushes youth and any rational researcher away from foolish doctrine's. Defended by u to calm your fears of not being of Noah.
Kinds... Noah needs 40 Arks+. Polar Bear is a Bear kind but also separate species. Noah needed a lotta meat food for his meat eater "Species".
---Trav on 8/28/14


The Hebrew 'erets' has many meanings, depending upon context. Because a word has a certain meaning in 1 context does not infer it has the same meaning in another context. Genesis 7:19 ".the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered. This means all mountains on the whole earth. Job 41:11 confirms this "Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine."

Does not God as Creator own everything under all the heavens? Of course He does and this alone shows the flood was world-wide. Therefore in this context 'erets' means whole-earth. This is in accord with Strongs which says that 'erets' in context means "whole earth (as opposed to a part)."
---Warwick on 8/27/14


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Nana Genesis 7:20 "The waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep." This does not hint at what the height of these mountains were. In fact in some translations they are called "high hills."

It is only an assumption that Mt Everest existed at its present height pre-flood.

Relevant also is that the highest mountains on earth, including Everest have marine fossils at the top showing they were once under the sea.

Species of animals did not need to be on the ark, only kinds, as Scripture says.
---Warwick on 8/27/14


I would suggest that anyone who wants to understand the situation read Woodmorappe's book Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study rather than follow Bibliosceptics like sheep.

It is an unproveable assumption to say the oceans of Noah's time were as saline as today. In fact, today, salt is leaching into the oceans via rivers, making the oceans increasingly salty.

The waters rose, via the fountains of the great deep, (e.g. Genesis 7:11) for c150 days giving creatures (including birds which can fly in rain)plenty of reason and time to flee a local flood. But there was nowhere to flee except upon the ark, during the flood. This is why God says all mankind, except those on the ark perished.
---Warwick on 8/27/14


The Bible describes the water rise as fifteen cubits. Where all mountains and high hills in the Genesis account less than 22.5 feet?
---Nana on 8/27/14

It is assumed by global flooders to be above Everest, etc. Which puts water pressure of 4+ miles high over global earth. Saline water pressure would kill all grasses, shrubs, trees, seed, nuts, insects, birds, etc, etc in the tens of thousands of separate species. Noah needed 40 arks to house two specie, animals + Food. Add seven clean.

There was a Biblical flood massive scale. Hebrew word Erets 1,600 times describes a country or land. Modern men agenda doctrines change it to our global world. It eradicated all but 8 of Noah's lineage. He was perfect in his generations.
---Trav on 8/27/14


Genesis 7:19_20 "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth, and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered."

Fifteen cubits is about 22ft 6in.
---Nana on 8/26/14

The Bible describes the water rise as fifteen cubits. Where all mountains and high hills in the Genesis account less than 22.5 feet?
---Nana on 8/27/14


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...BiblioSceptics go on an on about the millions of creatures which had to fit?
...why would birds have been brought,
---Warwick on 8/27/14

BiblioSkeptic? Never. Two or more proven witnesses.
preacherSkeptic Yes, always. More especially an unknown...such as yourself.
Man's doctrine skeptic, yes.
Wet Birds don't fly well. In a deluge....not at all. Insects, worms a million specialized species would die forever in saline water.
Woodmorappe promotes wood-morap-pe, a foolish book...merchandi$e$ Noah...and poorly.
By comparison Charles A. Weisman, using his real name, does a simple and better analysis of Flood facts and fiction...free on line.

The mission is "Sheep" this time around. Matt 10:6/15:24.
---Trav on 8/27/14


The local flood idea is nonsensical. God created mankind (Genesis 1:26) then in Genesis 6:7 He says He will wipe mankind (not some of them as in Sodom) from the face of the earth. "Mankind" is an inclusive term meaning the whole human race, not just some.

As the flood was global God had to bring creatures to save them.

If the flood was indeed local only very few kinds of animals would need to fit on the ark, as it is extremely unlikely any locality had representatives of all the Biblical kinds. Therefore why do BiblioSceptics go on an on about the millions of creatures which had to fit?

Further why would birds have been brought, as they more than any animals can easily fly away from any local area.
---Warwick on 8/27/14


There is an excellent book available on Noah's Ark written by scientist John Woodmorappe "Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study." His detailed painstaking research shows (among other things) that there was plenty of room for all the necessary air-breathing, land-dwelling animal 'kinds' which had to go on the ark. And their food.

BiblioSceptics don't understand what Biblical kind's mean i.e. that only representative kinds went on board means, for example only 2 dogs were necessary. Don't be a sheep and believe the BiblioSceptics read the Bible for yourself. No insects at all.

Genesis says that all the high mountains under all the heavens were covered by water this alone makes the flood world-wide.
---Warwick on 8/26/14


Isaiah 54:9 the Lord speaking "This is like the days of Noah to me: as I swore that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth,..." Obviously if the flood covered only some locality God is in error as floods large and small have ravaged the earth ever since.

However as the flood was world-wide God is correct because the whole earth has never again been totally covered.

Gill says "he made a covenant with Noah, and confirmed it by a rainbow, that the waters should no more go over the earth as they had, and that the world should be no more destroyed by a flood, Genesis 9:9."

The location of God's punishments have always been described e.g. Sodom, Egypt and the whole-earth.
---Warwick on 8/26/14


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//Compare with passages Luke 17:26-33 context is judgment. You infer that one was local and one Global. I see them both as concerning the people they are talking about.//

I do not infer, the Bible tells us that there was a judgment for Sodom and Gomorrah, those cities that were corrupted, and Noah's flood was universal, including all nations, not just those two. They are mention again because they are an example of what God can do with His Almighty power, when man disobey Him.
Second, of course the sheep at that time only pertain to Israel, but as of today, under the New Covenant, Gentiles are now included as sheep. Although they are from a different flock. Agape
---Luke on 8/26/14


The local flood idea is unreasonable and contradicted by Scripture. Genesis 7:19 "
---Warwick on 8/25/14

For any re-searching sheep. Rebutting that you and ur doctrine are un-supported in fact and scripture.
Two facts below of many facts erode your sand stand, found by any searching, GOD directed rational adults or educated youth today.
Whom you would divert from any truth in your fears.
Fact: It requires 40 Arks to hold all the non extinct known animals today and ...FOOD to feed them.
Fact: Miles of "Saline" water pressure would have killed/sterilized all plant life, insects,reptiles etc.
Water flows into a bowl shaped depression and escapes from it when full. Tarim Basin for an example.
---Trav on 8/26/14


Genesis 7:19_20 "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth, and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered."

Fifteen cubits is about 22ft 6in.
---Nana on 8/26/14


The local flood idea is unreasonable and contradicted by Scripture. Genesis 7:19 " the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered." Both "all" and "whole" are translations of Hebrew 'kol'meaning "all" or "every." Bibliosceptics claim "all" and "every" mean 'some' so language has no meaning.

Vs. 11 "all the fountains of the great deep burst forth,..." i.e. in the oceans, which provided the waters to flood the earth-some can still be seen in the oceans today. As all the fountains of the oceans poured forth how did they conspire to cover just one part of the earth?
---Warwick on 8/25/14


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Let those that have eyes see.
And let them that are willfully ignorant or have been blinded see not.
---micha9344 on 8/7/14

Amen.
A curse? Wow. You may (or not) reflect on your own words at some point.

Joh_9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth.

---Trav on 8/25/14


Trav,
your example changed the meaning of the passages you gave. Sodom and Gomorrah, are used here as an example of the Judgments of God..... Agape
---Luke on 8/13/14

But, i see you changing the meaning...by being out of witness context. If Sodom/Gomorrah was a local judgment, Noah's was as well. On a larger scale. Look at both examples. See it?
Compare with passages Luke 17:26-33 context is judgment. You infer that one was local and one Global. I see them both as concerning the people they are talking about. One was Noah's lineage. The other Abraham's. Lot was rescued as was Noah. As will be....
---Trav on 8/25/14


Those who believe in the local flood myth do not do so because of what Scripture says.
---Warwick on 8/12/14

Well, being one of "those". I believe because of what over a thousand of scriptures have testified.

You remind me of the sheep. You've never mentioned sheep. Never seen you look for them or post scripture for them. Mighty wolf like to the "sheep". Might try changing your clothing.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 8/25/14


There was no Egypt nor Sumer before Noah. Your dates for these ethos have no witnesses.
---micha9344 on 7/31/14

Well, understanding your basic fear, that all men must come from Noah for your NT theory fit.
Scripture gives us the story...men's ignorant doctrines corrupt it.
Egypts history predates the flood and steps along right through the flood. Noah's offspring did influence Godless Egyptians, as they have you. Yours, in a don't look.... just believe modern doctrine....fundamental fashion.
GOD delivered Noah and Moses. GOD's anointed, Christ will deliver Israel again. Heb 8:8.
Matt 24:15
---Trav on 8/25/14


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If any civilization other than those originating from Noah survived the flood (as Trav suggests), then the Bible is a lie. Personally, I'll stick with the Bible version.
---jerry6593 on 8/11/14

There is no conflict in my Bible. There was a Flood. Noah's lineage except for eight souls were wiped out because of it.
You adopt a doctrine approved by men. I've tested the doctrine and the men. They came up short in the face of scriptural witness and historical fact.
There are always those unwilling, or unable to hear or seek or hear deeper truths in scripture.
My thoughts were no different than yours at one time.
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
---Trav on 8/25/14


//2Peter. One clue that Noah's was not Global.
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly,//

Trav,
your example changed the meaning of the passages you gave. Sodom and Gomorrah, are used here as an example of the Judgments of God. If you read the passage correctly you will see it says,
"And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, "making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly"
When Sodom and Gomoorah are mentioned in any passage after their judgment they are use as examples of the Judgment of God. Agape
---Luke on 8/13/14


Discourse here shows the disastrous results of compromising God's word with man's opinions.

The world rejects Biblical creation (so clearly stated in Genesis ch.1) so has created a sand-castle view of origins separate from and in opposition to Genesis. Sadly many Christians have fallen for this Satanic lie, akin to that lie which lead Eve and Adam into sin bringing the curse upon the world.

Believing the secular story these Christians consider the fossil record predates sin (undermining the gospel) and that consequently Noah's flood was but a local event. But the faithful know the fossil record testifies to God's judgement upon sin.

Those who believe in the local flood myth do not do so because of what Scripture says.
---Warwick on 8/12/14


If any civilization other than those originating from Noah survived the flood (as Trav suggests), then the Bible is a lie. Personally, I'll stick with the Bible version.



---jerry6593 on 8/11/14


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Trav, if you have witnesses for your statement that several nations live through Noah's flood, then produce them.
Show your prophets of scripture, as I have, to support your claim.
Let those that have eyes see.
And let them that are willfully ignorant or have been blinded see not.
---micha9344 on 8/7/14


Your 3100BC has no witnesses, no prophets, nothing but conjecture.
There was no Egypt nor Sumer before Noah. Your dates for these ethos have no witnesses.
---micha9344 on 7/31/14

No witnesses? Your faith would be great if it was supported by mulitiples of proof. If one even two or more prefers darkness/blindness....only the Lord can cure. Sheep are the object here....blind or seeing, sick or well. Sheep that desire truth.
There is no help for self appointed preachers who distort scripture or try to hide truth from "the Sheep". There is truth for the Sheep.

2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
---Trav on 8/7/14


Michael, you have certainly made a good point. How can anyone berate and ridicule others for not giving enough Biblical support for their view then themselves promote ideas which have no Biblical support, nor any secular proof? Some dare call it hypocrisy!
---Warwick on 8/2/14


Let's talk scripture witness then, shall we?
Egypt is first mentioned in Gen 12:10(KJV)
The Hebrew word is "Mitzraim."
Now Mitzraim is used earlier translated in KJW as Mizraim.
Per scripture Egypt (Mizraim) was descended from Ham, Noah's son.
Your 3100BC has no witnesses, no prophets, nothing but conjecture.
Sumer, now southern Iraq, was inhabited by different descendant of Ham and Shem.
Nimrod (Babylon, Accad...), Arphaxad (Chaldea), and Asshur (Assyria). There was no Egypt nor Sumer before Noah. Your dates for these ethos have no witnesses.
---micha9344 on 7/31/14


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Searching Sheep might beware of doctrines utilizing witness in NT, with tied opinion avoiding second or multiple scriptural witnesses.
Sodom was not world wide ...and used side by side with Noahs example in Luke and 2Peter. One clue that Noah's was not Global.
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly,
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Wisdom is the principal thing, ....(Prov. 4:7).
---Trav on 7/31/14


Six other civilizations history march though the time period of Noah's flood.\-Trav on 7/28/14
This is a false statement that keeps getting posted.
---micha9344 on 7/29/14

Righto ole chap-ped one.....and we have your authorized opinion for proof.

This keeps getting posted for the sheep who care enough to research for truth. Obviously not you.
Egypt has written records pre 3,100 BC, as well as do the Summerians. Pre and post flood records, from these two alone of the six would be enough proof for further research for truth for those who eat only truth.
There was a large Noah's "erets" flood....Noah being the key to who it was saving and cleansing the lineage of.
---Trav on 7/31/14


2 Peter 3:6, 7 makes it plain the coming fiery destruction of the earth will be world-wide as was Noah's flood. Gill's Exposition of the Bible shows Peter refers back to Noah's flood, being universal (whole earth) killing all land-dwelling life, before referring to the coming fiery destruction of the whole earth. If Noah's flood wasn't universal the coming judgement of man will likewise not be universal.


The power of Gills exposition is that it was written in the mid 1700s before the long-ages idea bewitched and misled many church leaders. It is therefore an exposition on the Bible, from the Bible it is not a re-interpretation of Scripture viewed through long-ages glasses.
---Warwick on 7/29/14


/Six other civilizations history march though the time period of Noah's flood.\-Trav on 7/28/14
This is a false statement that keeps getting posted.
The belief that the Chinese, Egyptian, Phoenician and aa few other civilizations were around before the Flood of Noah's day is speculative at best. It is definitely not scriptural because it has no witnesses.
Phoenicians were descendants of Canaan and Egyptians were/are descendants of Mizraim.
---micha9344 on 7/29/14


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I found a guy Robert Dean Luginbill, Ph.D. (his phd. is in classical) wrote a book how Noah's flood was second flood.... Thoughts?
---Ken_Borden on 7/12/14

Let GOD's chosen multiple scripture witnesses give your answer.
Two floods, Gen 1:6..Global.
Noahs flood was large but not Global destroying the Adamic lineage except for Noah and family.
Six other civilizations history march though the time period of Noah's flood. Hebrew word "erets" 2,504 times in scripture is a scriptural beginning to understanding where the doctrines of today are in a circular rut of misunderstanding defending a childrens story version. Rarely seeking themselves for truth, in fear of leaving their herd/flock it appears.
---Trav on 7/28/14


It's always dangerous to build any kind of important doctrine (let alone an entire philosophy) based on the specific nuance or translation of a single word or phrase. Many kinds of weird doctrines have started out this way (for example, the Mormons' practice of "baptism for the daad").
---StrongAxe on 7/18/14


\\My point regarding the KJV was that the word 'replenish' (Hebrew 'male') meant fill when the KJV was first translated but 'replenish' has 'evolved' to now mean 'refill', giving the opposite meaning of what was intended.\\

Quite true.

In Tudor English "prevent" meant simply "to go before" and "let" could mean "stop from happening."

Now they have swapped meanings.

In Acts, we are told that people "fetched a compass." How many people today think that means that someone got a drafting or navigating instrument?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/16/14


Cluny, thank you for the courtesy of your answer. I now understand what you mean.

My point regarding the KJV was that the word 'replenish' (Hebrew 'male') meant fill when the KJV was first translated but 'replenish' has 'evolved' to now mean 'refill', giving the opposite meaning of what was intended.
---Warwick on 7/16/14


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\\Cluny, I have carefully read your comments twice but cannot discern you point. Please explain.
---Warwick on 7/15/1\\

My point is that we now know more about Biblical languages and cultures, as well as those contemporary with the Bible.

We also have more ancient versions of the Bible, and not just in Greek and Hebrew either.

Therefore we are in a better position to understand what the Bible is getting at than people 4 centuries ago.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/15/14


What Cluny wrote makes perfect sense. What's not to understand?
---love.jesus on 7/15/14


Cluny, I have carefully read your comments twice but cannot discern you point. Please explain.
---Warwick on 7/15/14


\\Warwick: "therefore the KJV was correct when translated, but wrong now."\\

The KJV is based on knowledge of Biblical and cognate languages as it existed in the 17th century.

But knowledge of these have increased, as well as discovery of old Biblical MSS in both Hebrew and Greek and other ancient versions (such as Armenian).

Nobody wants to practice 17th century abdominal surgery.

Is 17th century Biblical scholarship to be preferred?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/15/14


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Warwick: "therefore the KJV was correct when translated, but wrong now."

Excellent point! It is our language that has evolved - not life on earth. Many of our CN arguments would be resolved quickly if we would check the original meaning of the words upon which some of these outlandish theories rest.



---jerry6593 on 7/14/14


Genesis 1:28 KJV reads "replenish the earth", while modern translations read "fill the earth." Fill or replenish (refill)? Modern translations are correct as the underlying Hebrew is 'male' meaning 'fill' not 'refill'.

In the early 1800's many geologists believed the earth was millions of years old. Instead of challenging this flawed belief some church leaders sought to fit this human opinion into Scripture. To them Genesis 1:28KJV seemed to say the world was created, destroyed, needing to be refilled-the Gap Theory.

When the JKV was translated 'replenish' meant 'fill' but now means 'refill' therefore the KJV was correct when translated, but wrong now.
---Warwick on 7/13/14


I don't know if I would say there was two floods Genesis 1, 2 do believe as God was creating the earth his spirit was moving around it. Cause first it was void, then there was water on it. Think he is talking about when he first made the earth. I do believe he would have said after I created the earth. But then again satan was on the earth at the same time as Adam and Eve.
---Bryan on 7/13/14


This is probably related to the theory that "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form and void" are two successive events - i.e. God created them, abd then subsequently the Earth was destroyed, and the rest of Genesis is the account of the second creation. I don't remember who came up with this idea.
---StrongAxe on 7/12/14


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If God that it had been necessary He would have put it in genesis. some things are interesting but some things are necessary. believing the bible is necessary.
---shira4368 on 7/12/14


Cluny, I heartily agree with you. It's theatre of the absurd...
---love.jesus on 7/12/14


My faith in God is not built on speculation. There are enough people in the world right now, trying to destroy the faith of others, without you joining the queue.

We can all speculate about anything we want but that will never make an idea into a fact.

Leave this author to plug his own book and read GOD'S Word for yourself.
---Rita_H on 7/13/14


Ken, this is a belief called the Gap Theory. It is not found in Scripture, only in the minds of Christians who want to make Scripture conform with man's ever-changing philosophies regarding long-ages. It takes us nowhere, except away from God's word.
---Warwick on 7/13/14


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I agree with Cluny.



---jerry6593 on 7/13/14


This exact question was asked before for the soul purpose of someone wanting to push their dogma on everyone...

Do a search Ken and save is all from more grief. Or better yet, do your own search with scripture and come to your own conclusion and belief.

Or even better yet, ask a question that brings LOVE and unity and Glorifies God through Jesus Christ that may bring a lost soul to salvation.

Just ask anything that doesn't start another food fight here.
---kathr4453 on 7/13/14


Anything on this subject will be mere speculation.

Don't waste your energy on it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/12/14


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