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People Completely Dead

Are the dead really dead?

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 ---jerry6593 on 7/15/14
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Luke/Leon, Same old hackneyed answer, superstitious "unregenerate " nonsense!
You are just a human like any one else subject to all the problems of humanity, no "charmed" life ,you don't have a leg-up advantage with God by sounding pius and holy.
Just like the Pharisees who imagined that they were the chosen of God !
---1stcliff on 7/25/14


Dear Leon. Let me try again. We reject misinterpretations of a small number of scriptures. The point in 1Tim is not isolated, unless you do not believe GOD is immortal.

Dan.12:2 I agree those that sleep in the dust will awake at the resurrection. Why don't you?

Matt25:41,43 I do believe in the judgment day when the wicked goto Gehenna. Why do you teach they are already judged now?

John 3:16,36 5:24 I have been Born Again by the Holy Spirit which is why GOD gives me Everlasting life.

John. 6:40 Yes I will be raised in the resurrection of life. Do you not believe in the resurrection of the dead?

John. 11,26 which is why death is a sleep. Why do you believe the wicked have eternal life?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/25/14


"Cliff..."The unregenerate" are walking dead...they... have desires for their father the devil [about]...spiritual matters you don't understand... [No one can show you] spiritual matters...it is the work of God...you sound like a walking dead person.[Only] God [can] make a "walking dead person" spiritually alive...give them a spiritual re-birth. Jesus says, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives & believes in Me, shall never die." John 11:25,26. If you believe in Jesus, you will never die. [When] you die physically, you will still live. SDA's do not believe this. Agape"
---Luke on 7/25/14


Well said Luke!
---Leon on 7/25/14


Leon, I guess 1stcliff has really fooled me. :)
---love.jesus on 7/25/14


Love.Jesus : Leon is correct
It wasn't in earthly flesh that Moses & Elijah appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration to the Lord Jesus Christ Matt.17. Luke 23:43 "today shall thou be,with me in paradise " is not in matter of earthly flesh but in spirit.
---Adetunji on 7/25/14




"...we haven't rejected large portions of the Bible. WE HAVE REJECTED a few verses that have been misinterpreted & taken out of context.... You say [?!] we're immortal souls...the Bible says: 1 Timothy 6:13-16...we believe the Bible. Why don't you?" [?!!!]
---Samuelbb7 on 7/25/14


Sam: First you say you don't & then you say you do reject parts of the Bible. You can't have it both ways. You're trying to square peg Scripture with your bizarre view of eternal life. You vainly try making your argument stand on isolated passages in 1 Timothy. What about other passages like: Dan. 12:2 ~ Matt. 25:41, 43 ~ Jn. 3:16, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 11:26 ~ Ro. 2:6-8, 6:23? Believe in "proper context" Sam!
---Leon on 7/25/14


"I have to agree with 1stcliff on this one. When people die, they are really dead. They are not aware of time, space or causation of any kind. But they will be resurrected. Then their awareness will return."
---love.jesus on 7/24/14


Love, what's really dead is "the flesh". That's what knows nothing after death. The reason it knows nothing is because the soul/spirit departs from the flesh. However, at the resurrection the soul/spirit (or as you put it AWARENESS) returns to the reconstructed body.

Cliff has fooled you into believing the soul/spirit also dies when the flesh dies. If that were the case, what would there be left to return to the resurrected body?
---Leon on 7/25/14


1 Cliff,
Leon is correct. "The unregenerate" are walking the walking dead. Yet they think, have desires for their father the devil. But this are spiritual matters you don't understand. It's impossible for Leon or anyone to make you see spiritual matters, it is the work of God. With your answers, you sound like a walking dead person.
God has to make a "walking dead person" spiritually alive, that means give them a spiritual birth. Jesus says,
"He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me, shall never die." John 11:25,26.
If you believe in Jesus, you will never die. And if you die physically, you will still live. SDA's do not believe this. Agape
---Luke on 7/25/14


Leon: Your response to 1st Cliff "I can't show you a thing you're not willing to see." should be rephrased as "I can't show you a thing that doesn't exist."

This should serve to prove that your beliefs on this subject are not founded on Holy Scripture, but on pagan spiritualism.



---jerry6593 on 7/25/14


Leon, Instead of admitting that it's not in the bible, you give me this fancy little step dance, the old "change the subject" ploy !
Let me enlighten you of where in (scripture?) you can find it .... Book of Mormon Alma 42.9 "the soul can never die" I didn't know you were leaning to LDS belief !
---1stcliff on 7/25/14




No Leon we have not rejected large portions of the Bible. We have rejected a few verses that have been misinterpreted and taken out of context.

That is the reason you do not show proof because it is not there.

You say we are immortal souls. But the Bible says:


1Timothy 6:13-16

I give thee charge in the sight of God,...

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

So we believe the Bible why do you not?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/25/14


"Leon, I'll repent in sack cloth and ashes if you can show me one instance ,of the 847 times soul is mentioned in scripture, that says it is immortal, deathless or never dieing!"
---1stcliff on 7/24/14


Cliff: There you go again, i.e., "show me". Bud, I can't show you a thing you're not willing to see. If you really want to see something, look at the corner (predicament) you've painted yourself into by rejecting large portions of the Bible.

Do you really expect me to be foolish enough to try & show you what you absolutely refuse to see? We're way past the dog n pony show bud!

I sincerely do hope you'll one day (soon) repent & willingly see the light in the matter.
---Leon on 7/24/14


I have to agree with 1stcliff on this one. When people die, they are really dead. They are not aware of time, space or causation of any kind. But they will be resurrected. Then their awareness will return.
---love.jesus on 7/24/14


Leon, I'll repent in sack cloth and ashes if you can show me one instance ,of the 847 times soul is mentioned in scripture, that says it is immortal, deathless or never dieing!
---1stcliff on 7/24/14


THOUGHTS: ideas or opinions produced by thinking occurring in the mind.

PLANS: detailed proposals for doing or achieving something.
Synonyms - procedures, schemes, strategies, ideas ~ ways, intentions, aims, objectives, goals...

IDEAS: thoughts or suggestions as to a possible course of action.
Synonyms - plans ~ thoughts...

While dwelling upon earth, the living dead (unregenerated) people have thoughts, make plans & have many ideas. When an "unregenerated" man dies (departs) out of his flesh, his hell bound soul/spirit man still has thoughts & grievously realizes his plans & ideas were a terrible waste of precious time. (Lk. 16:19-31 ~ Eph. 2:1-7)
---Leon on 7/24/14


You suggest Lazarus the beggar & Lazarus the friend of Jesus were the same person.Leon
I am sorry you got this impression. I was pointing out that the name JESUS gave to the beggar was that of His Friend Lazarus.
Leon we believe in the Bible and what it says. You have not shown us from the Bible that what you teach is true. Since you say that GOD does not torture people in hell what do you say the Bible teaches and where are the Scriptures that say so.
Ok Cluny they no longer plan anything since they cannot think.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,
Love.jesus and 1st Cliff have presented many Bible verses and explained the one chapter yall keep using. Where are your verses?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/24/14


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\\Psl.146.4. His breath goeth forth,he returneth to his earth in that very day his THOUGHTS perish" KJV
Unless, of course, you don't believe the book of Psalms!"
---1stcliff on 7/23/14\\

The LXX says "plans" rather than "thoughts".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/24/14


"Psl.146.4. His breath goeth forth,he returneth to his earth in that very day his THOUGHTS perish" KJV
Unless, of course, you don't believe the book of Psalms!"
---1stcliff on 7/23/14


Unlike you Cliff, I believe the entire Bible (Gen.-Rev). Everything you say echoes the serpent's beguiling lies to Eve whereas he called into question the words of God & then outright called God a liar.

I'm not going to & hope to encourage other bloggers not to go, over the cliff into the abyss of unbelief, with you.
---Leon on 7/24/14


"...There's just one... problem with your theory,(tortured by his own thoughts) when a person dies he can no longer "think"
Psl.146.4. His breath [SOUL] goeth forth,he returneth to his earth in that very day his THOUGHTS perish" KJV..."
---1stcliff on 7/23/14


How do you know that the dead don't think Cliff? I'll believe what Jesus said (Luke 16:19-31) over anything you say on any given day of the week.

Of course, "your theory" puts a spin on Ps. 146:4 wherein you'd like for it to say the physical body & soul are one, so then when the body dies the soul does too. That's a falsehood you vainly try to prop up instead of believing what the Bible actually says.
---Leon on 7/23/14


"...most people teach it's physical torment imposed by GOD...the reason he [the rich man] needed water to cool his tongue, something not necessary with just mental anguish. Also [the]...Lake of Fire is...[God's judgment for sin]...If...people are dead they have no anguish..."
---Samuelbb7 on 7/23/14


Most people? Many people who express opinions about the Bible aren't born again.

If one didn't "think" they were thirsty, how would they know they were?

How do you know the dead don't anguish (suffer)? That's not what Jesus taught. (Luke 16:19-31)

You suggest Lazarus the beggar & Lazarus the friend of Jesus were the same person. The Bible doesn't say that.
---Leon on 7/23/14


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Leon, There's just one little problem with your theory,(tortured by his own thoughts) when a person dies he can no longer "think"
Psl.146.4. His breath goeth forth,he returneth to his earth in that very day his THOUGHTS perish" KJV
Unless, of course, you don't believe the book of Psalms !
---1stcliff on 7/23/14


Samuel, good and interesting points you make.
---love.jesus on 7/23/14


Interesting Cluny thank you and lovejesus too.

Leon most people teach that it is physical torment imposed by GOD. Which is the reason he needs water to cool his tongue. Something not necessary with just mental anguish.

Also Gehenna or Lake of Fire is said to be the judgment of GOD for sin. Which ends in the Second death. If the people are dead they have no anguish whatsoever.

But you make a point many miss. The man asked for someone to raise from the dead and go tell his family.

JESUS did raise Lazarus from the dead and the leaders still did not believe.

Where was Lazarus when he died?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/23/14


Cluny, evidently so.

Enjoy your day.
---love.jesus on 7/23/14


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Thank you for your advice, love.jesus.

However, it would be fruitless. Wikipedia is NOT to be trusted on matters of Church history, especially involving the various Eastern Churches.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/23/14


Cluny, Thank you for correcting what I wrote. You might like to go to the Wikipedia article on the New Testament canon and make corrections there. That would be helpful.
---love.jesus on 7/23/14


"...God does not 'torture' anyone! This is pagan nonsense!"
---1stcliff on 7/22/14


Samuel: Like Jesus taught, the rich man in hell was tormented (tortured) mentally & physically, by his own thoughts (NOT BY GOD). God doesn't torture people in hell! No where in Scripture is that taught.

Once in hell, the rich man realized he'd blown it & wanted his family to be saved from making the same mistake he'd made. He was woefully remorseful over his self inflicted & helluva predicament.
---Leon on 7/23/14


\\Just to keep the record straight, the Syrian Orthodox Church, which is in communion with the other Orthodox churches, uses all 27 books of the New Testament that we use.\\

Actually, the Syriac (proper word) Orthodox Church is NOT in communion with the other Orthodox churches because it is technically Monophysite.

\\It is the Syrian Chaldean Church, with headquarters in India, that has the five books missing that were mentioned below.\\

The Syrian Chaldean Church has its headquarters in Chicago, not India.

And all these churches use the entire New Testament as generally received.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/23/14


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It did not go easy or smoothly but much disagreement among the bishops! It's interesting to note that no Jews were called to this committee by Constantine.(325AD) Jewish scholars were not invited! Not all 27 books are included in all denominations even today!
---1stcliff on 7/22/14

What is your point? Are you saying that the NT, OT, or the entire Bible is not to be trusted or believed? Belief is up to you.

No organization I know does things perfectly. The larger the group the worse it gets. Get involved with people and you will see what I mean.

As for belief in the Bible, well belief can only start when you know that God is good, that He wants the best for us, and that He wants to be involved in our everyday life.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/23/14


Just to keep the record straight, the Syrian Orthodox Church, which is in communion with the other Orthodox churches, uses all 27 books of the New Testament that we use.

It is the Syrian Chaldean Church, with headquarters in India, that has the five books missing that were mentioned below.
---love.jesus on 7/22/14


Samuel , The Syrian Orthodox bible does not include 2nd Peter,Jude, 2nd and 3rd John or Revelation!
My belief is what Jesus taught, people remain dead 'till resurrected!
God does not "torture " anyone! This is pagan nonsense!
---1stcliff on 7/22/14


Cliff why would Jews be asked about the Christian New Testament?

Which denominations reject books of the New Testament?

Why are you arguing about this instead of talking about how many teach that GOD tortures people for all eternity?

Set up a blog Question on this and instead tell me what do you believe and teach happens to a person who dies?

Do you believe in the Resurrection of the dead?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/22/14


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Mark Eaton, Again it comes down to the committee who put together the NT canon.
It did not go easy or smoothly but much disagreement among the bishops!
It's interesting to note that no Jews were called to this committee by Constantine.(325AD)
Jewish scholars were not invited!
Not all27 books are included in all denominations even today!
---1stcliff on 7/22/14


"Leon, Yes one can delude themselves by believing that this episode is literal! Tell me how you know for a fact that Jesus spoke this 'story'. Written by a non-Jew, non-Apostle with no corroboration!"
---1stcliff on 7/17/14


Therein lies the problem Cliff. You're always saying "tell me, show me" when it's clear to me ( & perhaps others here) you really don't want to hear it.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, especially since you've decided "all Scripture" isn't Scripture. Like a few other bloggers here, you clearly are stuck in a paralysis of analysis hell hole.

What can I say to you?! No buddy, that's between you & God. I wish you the best!
---Leon on 7/22/14


The Scribes and Pharisees were concerned "only" with the old testament (Hebrew) scriptures.

The new testament was put together by a committee of Catholic Bishops!

They apparently did not question Luke's Gospel although his name does not appear in his writings as author!
---1stcliff on 7/21/14

Pharisees were concerned with ruling the people, otherwise why crucify Jesus? They would want any insurrection within Jews forcibly put down.

The New Testament was letters and books copied and sent to Christians all over the world. Only when a definitive collection was sought did the Bishops get involved.

The author's name does not appear in MOST of the Books in the Bible.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/22/14


Samuel, I will have to disagree with you on this one. The documents still exist regarding the Councils of Carthage and Hippo around the year 400. Those councils are not disputed, and they were gatherings of bishops, who decided which books should appear in the New Testament. There was no deception by anyone regarding these councils.
---love.jesus on 7/21/14


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Jesus said many times about not reading the scriptures to find the truth. What scriptures was he refering to since the NT was not written yet?

2 Timothy 3:16
Daniel 10:21
Matthew 21:42
Matthew 22:29
Mark 12:10, 24
Luke 24:45
John 2:22
John 5:39
John 7:38
John 20:9
Acts 17:2
Acts 18:24
Romans 1:2
Romans 4:3
Romans 10:11
Romans 15:4
Romans 16:26
2 Timothy 3:15, 16
1 Peter 2:6
2 Peter 1:20

2 Peter 3:16
---Steveng on 7/21/14


Dear Cliff they were not Roman Catholic Bishops. The Roman Catholic church claims it did it but they are lying.

The Church had not split into the Orthodox and Roman Catholic yet. So a group of scholars from all over the church looked at what had been previously accepted as scripture by those of the first century. Then they checked to see if the books then purporting to be scripture were written in the First Century.

Those not were discarded. The problem is not with Luke. But with people not understanding the Bible.

The Roman Catholic church makes money from getting people out of purgatory. Which is the main reason for the doctrine of the eternal soul and torment.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/21/14


Mark Eaton, The Scribes and Pharisees were concerned "only" with the old testament (Hebrew) scriptures.
The new testament was put together by a committee of Catholic Bishops!
They apparently did not question Luke's Gospel although his name does not appear in his writings as author!
---1stcliff on 7/21/14


Dear Jerry,
Your interpretation of (Rev. 20:5) is wrong as 1Cliff said. Scripture teaches two kinds of resurrection. The first is the resurrection of life, the second is the resurrection of condemnation.
The first is described as the resurrection of the Just (Luke 14:14) it is the resurrection of those who are Christ's at His Coming (1 Cor. 15:23)
The second resurrection is of those who are unconverted who will receive their final bodies suited for torment in hell.
---Luke on 7/21/14


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So, such an important scripture ,one would think there must be a bible writer, somewhere, who would agree with this!
---1stcliff on 7/18/14

Let me make this simple.

Suppose you wrote a book today about Richard Nixon and make false testimony in the book. Do you think you would get away with it?

The timing is the same with Luke's work. It was written within 30-40 years of when Jesus was alive. Many actual witnesses were still alive. If anything was incorrect in Luke's work it would have been pointed out by the Pharisees and other groups who wanted the Christians to fail and the whole work would have been discredited.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/21/14


Jerry, What sense does it make to wake up the dead and then kill them?
If they have no chance of staying alive , why would a loving God bring them back?
I think you're misinterpreting
Rev.20.5.
---1stcliff on 7/20/14


Hello,Bro. Jerry6593,thankyou, all respect your point well taken, "written to the tee" this is Elena, agree 100%
you said it all very well...you express exactly, as I would so much like to do.
You really did a fine explination wish I could've very appreciative..your Sister in Christ Jesus.

Love of Jesus! Elena 9555
---Elena_9555 on 7/20/14


jerry6593: "The wicked stay dead 1000 years longer and then are resurrected for their destruction in the lake of fire.

It is written that after a thousand years the rest of the dead shall be resurrected AND be judged from the Book of Life according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. This means that some to the second death and some to everlasing life on Earth.
---Steveng on 7/20/14


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Dear Elena: "Please it concerns me..why do you doubt or feel they or who is it you fear is NOT dead? Share please.."

I agree with you that the dead are indeed really dead. That is, the righteous dead are unconscious in the grave until the resurrection at Jesus' second coming. The wicked stay dead 1000 years longer and then are resurrected for their destruction in the lake of fire.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Most Christians mistakenly believe that at death, the dead leave the body as conscious, disembodied spirits to go to either heaven, hell, or purgatory. But that is not what the Bible teaches.



---jerry6593 on 7/20/14


Cluny, Deut.19.15 for another.
There's also one in Mr.chap 16
but it's spurious !
---1stcliff on 7/19/14


\\So if more than one witness is necessary to establish truth in court then by the same token more than one witness is necessary to establish truth in any matter!
---1stcliff on 7/19/14\\

Non sequituur.

By your own standard, how many verses in the Bible say that 2 or more witnesses are needed to sustain a murder conviction?

If you can't find any others, then by your own standards, that passage is spurious.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/19/14


Cluny, There is a precident established Num. 35.30 That no one was to be executed on the testimony of only one witness.
So if more than one witness is necessary to establish truth in court then by the same token more than one witness is necessary to establish truth in any matter!
---1stcliff on 7/19/14


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// Luk_9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

there seems to be some double meaning associated with dead.//

Dear aka,
there is no double meaning associated with death in the passage. The passage speaking of those who are spiritually dead, the lost. If you go to Matthew 8:21,22) you will see the same expression. Jesus said,
"follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead"
which means "let the world (the spiritually dead) take care of mundane things." The spiritually dead do not understand what Jesus is saying, but the disciple Jesus answered knew what Jesus was saying. Agape
---Luke on 7/19/14


aka, Of course, spiritually dead and literally dead!
If the story was literal, the Rich man who was dead and buried could see through 6' of earth (Xray vision?) and saw Abraham .
How far can you see and identify someone? 1/2 mile?,1,000 ft.?
Heaven and hell are this close??
literal or figurative?
---1stcliff on 7/19/14


\\Mark Eaton, The bible says that two witnesses are necessary for a truth to be established!(answering Cluny's statement)\\

This is talking about witnesses needed to sustain an accusation in court, NOT to determine the authenticity of a Biblical passage.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/19/14


Luk_9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

there seems to be some double meaning associated with dead.
---aka on 7/18/14


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Mark Eaton, The bible says that two witnesses are necessary for a truth to be established!(answering Cluny's statement)
This scripture in particular is the only one evangelicals can cite that appears to prove life after death!
So, such an important scripture ,one would think there must be a bible writer,somewhere, who would agree with this!
There's also no evidence that Luke ever met Christ to personally deliver this story!
The Apostles walked and talked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years without this knowledge!
---1stcliff on 7/18/14


\\However, Luke's knowledge of the temple (Luke 1:8-20), and of Mary (Luke 2), point to the likelihood that Luke was a Jew and not a Gentile.\\

I suppose it's impossible for Luke to have been a Gentile (possibly a Theoufovoumenos) who was knowledgeable in matters Jewish.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/14


Written by a non-Jew, non-Apostle with no corroboration!
---1stcliff on 7/17/14

I have heard you espouse these theories before and I must disagree strongly with you.

There is only one passage that seemingly has strong evidence that Luke was a Gentile, Colossians 4:10-14 where Paul is describing who is with him and he apparently does not include Luke in the list of those of the "circumcision".

However, Luke's knowledge of the temple (Luke 1:8-20), and of Mary (Luke 2), point to the likelihood that Luke was a Jew and not a Gentile.

Luke's work was likely written around 55-60 AD when many witness of Jesus were still alive and would have severely criticized anything written falsely.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/18/14


Interesting the true meaning and questions about the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man are posted and no one tries to answer them.

Could it be because they do not have an answer?

Now we did get one question.


According to some, since the body and the breath make a soul, killing the body would be killing the soul, hence the passages referring to such would be meaningless.
micha9344

But you forget as many seem to have that there is a resurrection of the dead.
Acts 25:15 1Corithians 15

Rom 2:7

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life
---Samuelbb7 on 7/18/14


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\\Tell me how you know for a fact that Jesus spoke this "story".
Written by a non-Jew, non-Apostle with no corroboration!
---1stcliff on 7/17/14\\

How many times does the Bible have to say something for it to be true and authentic?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/17/14


Leon, Yes one can delude themselves by believing that this episode is literal!
Tell me how you know for a fact that Jesus spoke this "story".
Written by a non-Jew, non-Apostle with no corroboration!
---1stcliff on 7/17/14


\\I must disagree with the idea that Elijah's body or Enoch's body is currently at home with the Lord.\\

Their present locations I don't pretend to know.

But Elijah is NOT a disembodied spirit for he has not died yet. He and Enoch are the two witnesses who will be killed by Antichrist.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/17/14


John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
-Some of you don't.
Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
-To which dead are you referring?
-Was Jesus non-existent for three days?
-Can one be dead and still exist?
The account of Lazarus and the rich man shows we still exist after death.
-According to some, since the body and the breath make a soul, killing the body would be killing the soul, hence the passages referring to such would be meaningless.
---micha9344 on 7/17/14


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So the rich man and Lazarus are disembodied spirits, since the resurrection has not yet taken place? If that is so, where would somebody get a finger to dip in water?
---love.jesus on 7/17/14


Meaning of rich man Lazarus Parable.

The rich do not automatically go to heaven. Nor are the poor cursed of GOD.

It is also can apply to how the Jews looked at non-Jews.

To get the physical properties in the Parable to be true, such as putting a finger in water and dropping it on a tongue. Our bodies would have to go to Abrahams bosom not paradise which how large can that be? Do non-Jews go there? The Body of Lazarus did go there since the angels took him.
Luke 16:31 Read.
JESUS later on resurrected Lazarus from the dead and they still did not believe. So this Parable as listed in many commentaries also has a prophecy which JESUS fulfilled by resurrecting Lazarus.
Which is why Lazaruss name is used here.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/17/14


"...love.jesus : "If the dead are not dead, then dead doesn't mean dead."

You either believe what Jesus taught about death or man's definition of death.
---Steveng on 7/16/14


Steve: Jesus taught about the rich man & Lazarus, i.e., how both died, one went to Abraham's bosom (paradise) & the rich man opened his eyes in hell. Both died to life as we know it, in the flesh. Yet, they were cognizant of their surroundings, able to communicate their feelings & had sensory abilities the same as they did while living in the flesh.

True Steve, we can either believe what Jesus taught or else believe a self deluding lie.
---Leon on 7/17/14


Deut. 34: And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died..,

AS for Elijah, there are two things to think about: 1) Jesus said no one has gone to (third) heaven and 2) Elijah was transplanted to another area for in Chronicles he sent a letter by messenger scolding Jehoram for the wrong things he had been doing while king - seven years after Elijah was taken by the whirlwind.
---Steveng on 7/16/14


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Steven, please tell me what you think Jesus taught about death.
---love.jesus on 7/16/14


He was assumed into Heaven in a fiery chariot.Therefore, he was not disembodied.
---Cluny on 7/16/14

So, let me understand what you are saying. Are you saying that Elijah's corruptable flesh is currently with God?

I must disagree with the idea that Elijah's body or Enoch's body is currently at home with the Lord.

Based upon what we know from Scripture, I would guess that their corruptible bodies were turned into incorruptible bodies the second they left Planet Earth.

1 Cor. 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption"
---Mark_Eaton on 7/17/14


love.jesus : "If the dead are not dead, then dead doesn't mean dead."

You either believe what Jesus taugh about death or man's definition of death.
---Steveng on 7/16/14


All it says about Elijah is that he went up into the sky in a chariot. It does not say that he did not die eventually. I am sure he was mortal just like everyone else.
---love.jesus on 7/16/14


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\\Seems that in this passage Elijah and Moses were disembodied souls.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/16/14\\

I can't speak for Moses, but Elijah never died, remember?

He was assumed into Heaven in a fiery chariot.

Therefore, he was not disembodied.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/16/14


Are the dead really dead?
---jerry6593 on 7/15/14

Were Moses and Elijah bodies dead in this passage?

Mark 9:2-4 "And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow, so as no fuller on earth can white them. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus"

Seems that in this passage Elijah and Moses were disembodied souls.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/16/14


But the dead will live again.


1Co 15:20-23

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits, afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Which is why the Bible refers to being dead as being asleep.

Waiting for JESUS.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/16/14


If the dead are not dead, then dead doesn't mean dead.
---love.jesus on 7/15/14


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No the dead are not dead, but sleeping until the resurrection of the last day.
---Steveng on 7/15/14


Thankyou, love.jesus all respect.

Yes, Bro.Jerry, the dead are really dead.
My dead children they' rest now in my saviour's arms.


I love them still, but yes,they are dead.My family members, my twin sister are dead. God left me happy memories, me & my late twin, she always in my heart. I know she was saved.
Thankfull, Lord Jesus she is no longer suffering..
Love of Jesus!
---Elena_9555 on 7/15/14


Please it concerns me..why do you doubt or feel they or who is it you fear is NOT dead? Share please..

Love of Jesus! Elena 9555.
---Elena_9555 on 7/15/14


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