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Church Out Of Touch

I often hear people say "The church is out of touch with the real world" or similar words. It is not just youngsters who say this either.

How would you answer them and would you actually agree with them - to a certain point?

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Luke we will just have to leave Cluny to tell us what he does and does not believe then as I don't intend trawling through many past contributions from him.

I hope he will clarify this for all who are interested.
---Rita_H on 8/19/14


Dear Samuel,
If Saturday Sabbath is a law to you, you are under the Law. Under Grace a person does not abrogate His moral law (3:31) Matt. 5:17-19). The law is good, holy, and righteous but it cannot be kept, so it curses. It can only show the standard and thus rebuke and condemn those who fail to keep it. But the believer is no longer under the law as a condition of acceptance with God-and impossible condition to meet and one designed only to show man his sinfulness. But under grace, enables him to truly fulfill the law's righteous requirements. Paul discussing sanctification by reminding his readers of their past slavery to sin and their new slavery to righteousness. Paul wants them to live in submission to their new master, Jesus Christ.
---Luke on 8/19/14


Seventh day Adventist teach we are under Grace and therefore are to live Moral lives in adherence to all the Moral Commandments of GOD.

That to not do so is sin. Just as Scripture states.


Rom 6:14,15

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Read all of First John, Romans 3:31. James.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/18/14


Dear Rita,
I still say that Cluny never said he believed in "immersion". Just because he is an Orthodox member, does not mean he believes in everything they teach. I know what they teach, I just don't know if Cluny believes in immersion. I never saw him say he did. The same holds true for anyone who condemns SDA"s for the keeping of the law, on Saturday Sabbath. I am sure that not everyone believes in being under the law. While many others do. I just never read anywhere, where Cluny actually said he believed in triple immersion. The same for Catholics, not all of them believe in worshipping idols, while many do. Agape
---Luke on 8/18/14


"Thank you Nana."
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/14

You are very welcome.
---Nana on 8/17/14




"Here you did what you do to me, you seem to be saying that Cluny also agrees with immersion. And He never mentioned that he did. I went back and read everyone of his answers."... "To this point I have not heard Cluny say, he believes in immersion, three times immersion, or just sprinkling water"

Luke, you surely do not expect us to believe that Cluny would have changed his beliefs on this point between blogs - do you ??

Of course what is said in previous blogs counts here otherwise what is the point in us using the website.

We all build up a picture of each other - over time - and I'd be worried if people totally contradicted what they had said previously, without a good explanation for doing so.
---Rita_H on 8/17/14


You thought it more important to look to see if Cluny ever said he believed in water immersion. But I was answering for this blog, not what he said many days ago. Here Cluny never said he believed in immersion on this blog. Not even on 8/8. Now he could have said he did on some other blog, but not here concerning Samuel's remark. Read the blog answers again.
---Luke on 8/17/14


Thank you Nana.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/14


"The Orthodox church and other Eastern Churches baptize by triple immersion under normal circumstances and have never stopped."
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/6/13

On the "Ellen White A Prophet" Cristianet blog
---Nana on 8/16/14


Brother Samuel,
Cluny never said he believed in water immersion. But thanks for your answer. Have a great day brother Samuel, Agape
---Luke on 8/16/14




Dear Luke

Look at Cluny's post on 8/8.

He mentions that he has talked about triple immersion before. It was on another discussion and he corrected me when I confused the Orthodox with RCC baptism.

Have a great day.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/15/14


//We many not agree on the number of times but we both agree on Baptism by immersion.//

Samuel,
Here you did what you do to me, you seem to be saying that Cluny also agrees with immersion. And He never mentioned that he did. I went back and read everyone of his answers. I myself do not agree with many things Cluny says, but I try not to make things up that he doesn't say. To this point I have not heard Cluny say, he believes in immersion, three times immersion, or just sprinkling water. Just because he believes in some doctrines we don't believe in, does not mean we disagree with all of them. Many of his answers are correct. Judge him by those he disagrees only, and show why. We need to be fair and honest. Agape
---Luke on 8/13/14


ooh ooh ooh I got this.

In the Orthodox churches.

We many not agree on the number of times but we both agree on Baptism by immersion.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/12/14


Samuel, I've mentioned the Jewish Mikveh on these blogs several times.

For a Gentile to convert to Judaism, regardless of gender or age, triple immersion in the waters of the Mkiveh (pool) is done.

Now, where have I mentioned triple immersion before?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/8/14


I have read a Jewish scholar who became a Christian explain it this way.

For a gentile to become a jew they had to undergo purification rites which included being immersed in water. So that the old person was now dead and they were a new person.

Nicodemas would have been quite upset to think that he one of the chosen people had to be changed.

John the Baptizer was using the purification ritual of total immersion to point to changing from the Old person to a new follower of the law.


Romans 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/8/14


John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

This passage relates the birth to a time post being born of woman. This 'water' is not that 'water'. Jesus knew well the meaning of "born of woman"
to implicate it by 'water' rather than spell it out.

Luke 7:28 "For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

again:

2: another time : once more : anew
---Nana on 8/8/14


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Rita,
I have another explanation why water is mentioned in the passages. First, Nicodemus was suppose to be someone who knew the Old Testament very well and still did not understand what Jesus was saying.
"Born of water and Spirit" Here Jesus was not referring to literal water but to the need for "cleansing" Look at Ezek. 36:24-27).
"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean, I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols" That is why Jesus later told him,
"Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? that is why Jesus said if He told him earthly things and he did not believe, how could he understand heavenly things?
---Luke on 8/8/14


So the interpretation of John 3 is not entirely settled. That's all I wanted to say. No one can speak dogmatically about it.
---love.jesus on 8/7/14


There are some that relate that passage to baptism. But there is no logical path from birth to baptism and then back to birth in its context. Rita has the correct understanding of this passage, relating spiritual birth and physical birth.
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?
These only make sense with a reasonable and logical flow of the passage, not thru baptism, which has no support, but through childbirth, which is supported by the whole.
---micha9344 on 8/7/14


Love.Jesus, my understanding is that 'born of water' refers to the woman's waters which have to break allowing the baby to be born. First we must be born that way (physically) and, later, born of the spirit (referring to the day we are SAVED/born-again).
---Rita_H on 8/7/14


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Micha, doesn't "born of water" mean Baptism?
---love.jesus on 8/6/14


/Didn't Jesus tell Nicodemus to be baptized?\-love.jesus on 7/31/14
No. Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again.
John 3:3,5-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
---micha9344 on 8/6/14


Didn't Jesus tell Nicodemus to be baptized?
---love.jesus on 7/31/14


Good answers.


2Corithians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.

Because now we have a new nature that comes from being filled with the Holy Spirit we are to be like JESUS.


Phl 2:5

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
---Samuelbb7 on 7/29/14


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Being born again is the way Jesus told nicodemus how to be born again. You are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. God's son died for all mankind. That way you are "born" into the family of God. Thus born again.
---shira4368 on 7/29/14


..love.Jesus: born again >> turning around to start living in the new way of life in the Lord Jesus Christ after disconnecting ourselves from the worldly /sinful life we have been living previously.
---Adetunji on 7/29/14


What does Born Again mean?
---love.jesus on 7/28/14


If you are a born again believer, you are Gods. God said if MY people would pray and seek my face, I will hear their prayers and heal their land. I think I left out some words. Denominations is a choice for a Christian to make. It ain't up to you to dictate anything about a denomination. I am baptist because that is where God put me. All faiths can pray together.
---Shira4368 on 7/28/14


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So, the denominational christians are out of touch with reality.
If this were not so, they would cry out in unison to the Lord to fix things and He would answer them much like he did in the OT.
---Steveng on 7/24/14

Agree with you that it could be fixed by collective "cry out".
As long as the "virgins" are Cinderella's sisters it is a Non unified cry. Every denom think they have it figured out....by this elemental error fall short of it.
Luk_18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Mic_4:9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.
---Trav on 7/28/14


Steveng, I do see many who would rather read Joyce Myers and Osteen books than read the Bible. This has nothing to do with the many denominations, but has to do with man worshiping man.

Those without the Indwelling Holy Spirit will eat on this junk food without spiritual discernment because they may not be saved to begin with. Those who are saved, and eat this junk food, God will stick His finger down their throats and make them puke up this poison. You have such little faith in The Lord to take care of His Own.

Don't you know the Tares have always been among the true believers? And they will until the end of time. There is nothing you can do to stop it.
---kathr4453 on 7/28/14


//Where's the truth?
If Jesus were on these blogs he would surely be mocked by many of you.
Truth comes only from the bible.//

If Truth comes only from the Bible, why haven't you given any Truth? You paste a word on your computer and you get your truth from anyone who has posted on the computer. Their truth. Not the Bibles. Jesus will come, and all those who have spoken against His church will find themselves outside the gates of heaven. Begging for forgiveness but it will be too late.
---Luke on 7/27/14


Over seventy thousand different denominations in the world each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. There is no unity among the denominations - not even unity within the denominations.

Where's the truth?

If Jesus were on these blogs he would surely be mocked by many of you.

Truth comes only from the bible.
---Steveng on 7/26/14

Steveng,

They got all of those interpretation from the bible. When you say truth comes from the bible, whose interpretation is the correct one, how do you determine it??
---Ruben on 7/27/14


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Over seventy thousand different denominations in the world each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. There is no unity among the denominations - not even unity within the denominations.

Walking into any christian bookstore one would notice a plethora of books each having the "secrets" of the authors interpretation of the bible and even on the same topic - the gospel, the end days, the rapture, the resurrection, the covenant, and whther the commandments of God were nailed to the cross - no longer needed.

Where's the truth?

If Jesus were on these blogs he would surely be mocked by many of you.

Truth comes only from the bible.
---Steveng on 7/26/14


Bryan said: "Cluny have you noticed something your the only person talking about a religion. Everybody else seems to be talking about Jesus the word of God he saves, not some thousand year old religion."

As a monk in a religion that is close to 2000 years old, Byran, I am one of the ones that can talk about religion and Jesus in one sentence, without needing to apologize for it. I glory in the Name of Jesus, and what he has done for me. By the way, what are you talking about when you say "Jesus the word of God he saves. Jesus saves because He IS the Word of God

Pray for me!
the unworthy monk Brendan
---Monk_Brendan on 7/26/14


Rita, that is helpful. Thank you.
---love.jesus on 7/26/14


Luke, I asked this question because of what I, personally, have heard people say and they definitely were not Christians. They use these words, as an excuse for not 'trying' church of any kind.

They give the impression that they would attend or their children would attend if church was just like the world. They want it to be a place which entertains and condones what Christians know should be condemned. When they don't get what they want they say that WE are 'out of touch' NOT that it is they who will not accept teaching, discipline, authority etc.

They want God on their own terms on most occasions.

Perhaps 'out of touch with' could be rephrased 'not keeping pace with' for some of you. Sayings vary around the world.
---Rita_H on 7/26/14


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Dear Rita,
when we mention that the church is out of touch with the real world, I do not think it means the fallen world. It means what Steven says. He is out of touch with the real Truth. He thinks it is found at his house only. This way Satan won't touch him. He has being lied to. He is so confused he believes he is correct and everyone else is wrong. Just think of all the billions who are wrong and he is right? He needs to join a real church. Not teach it but learn from it. Agape
---Luke on 7/26/14


\\With over 2 billion denominational Christians in the world (about one third of the world's population), just about 4 million Christian congregations and just about 70,000 different denominations in the world one would figure that the earth would be somewhat peaceful.\\

Among these is the worldly denominational Church of Steveng.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/25/14


The churches here are certainly not "out of touch with the world" they are part of it. Good political sermons, finance, health matters,current events etc..
Scripture?....well some!
---1stcliff on 7/25/14


I still don't know what "out of touch" is supposed to mean.
---love.jesus on 7/24/14


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With over 2 billion denominational Christians in the world (about one third of the world's population), just about 4 million Christian congregations and just about 70,000 different denominations in the world one would figure that the earth would be somewhat peaceful. But in reality, the violence in the world, both human caused and nature are progressively getting worse each day.

So, the denominational christians are out of touch with reality. They are only hearers of the word and deny the power of God. If this were not so, they would cry out in unison to the Lord to fix things and He would answer them much like he did in the OT.
---Steveng on 7/24/14


There is only one Church, the boC, it's not out of touch. It's denominationalism that's out of touch.
---michael_e on 7/24/14


Casino Night might be fun actually...
---love.jesus on 7/23/14


Out of touch" covers a lot of "ground". If the church is teaching and presenting the correct interpretation of the Bible, than being out of touch is good. If a person asked me that, that is what how I would respond.

---wivv on 7/23/14
Totally Agree, we are not of this world or this world's morality anyway. The World is lost. So if the so called earthly church is becoming morally corrupt then the church is not out of touch with the world, but just like the world.

This is why Paul said WE are CRUCIFIED to the World and the world to us. Galatians 6.

Youngsters want Christian cRAP music etc., and there are plenty of those around. So what exactly do adults want? Casino night?
---kathr4453 on 7/23/14


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"Out of touch" covers a lot of "ground". If the church is teaching and presenting the correct interpretation of the Bible, than being out of touch is good. If a person asked me that, that is what how I would respond.
---wivv on 7/23/14


\\Wasn't Cluny saying that Satan had/has activity in ALL churches and ministries? \\

No, Cluny never said that, Elder.

Bryan, don't you get it? You DON'T sow the Gospel. You just sow the religion of Bryan.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/23/14


"Elder, that was very slick, but it was a gross misinterpretation of Cluny's intention."
love.jesus

Oh, really. Wasn't Cluny saying that Satan had/has activity in ALL churches and ministries? If not, then what was he saying?

If I disagree with Cluny I'm "wrong." Now, if I agree with him I'm "wrong." So, where do I go from here?
---Elder on 7/23/14


Back to the blog question.

The church is definitely out of touch with the world (USA) because the morality of the world is constantly degrading. Absolute truth has no standing in the world anymore. Honesty and integrity have no meaning in the world today. Marriage is no longer a sacred commitment. Purity and holiness are no longer understood. Virtues are no longer celebrated. In fact, defects of character are now celebrated. Denying yourself anything is un-American.

Out of touch, you betcha!!!
---Mark_Eaton on 7/23/14


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cluny religion I stay away from, they came leave sick or even worse dead. Always try to sow the Gospel it bring life. No need to say the word wrong, no need to judge just sow the Gospel the word aways brings life. Does not condemn. Galatians 6,7 I like reaping the Gospel so I bite my tongue and sow it even when my flesh would want me to say things like the lord rebuke you. That's not from God that would be flesh no good fruit there. Condemnation never set a person free. Just makes them feel bad.
---Bryan on 7/23/14


\\Everybody else seems to be talking about Jesus the word of God he saves\\

Bryan, I've noticed that you talk about your religion all the time.

But you misquote Jesus constantly.

Why is that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/22/14


Cluny have you noticed something your the only person talking about a religion. Everybody else seems to be talking about Jesus the word of God he saves, not some thousand year old religion.
---Bryan on 7/22/14


Elder, that was very slick, but it was a gross misinterpretation of Cluny's intention.
---love.jesus on 7/22/14


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People don't "contemplate" on becoming a Christian. Secondly, the Gospel message, no matter what version is clearly stated. SIN no matter what version is clearly stated.

Thirdly, the Holy Spirit who is our teacher is not deferred by any man made interpretations.
---kathr4453 on 7/22/14


"\\Satan has had over two thousand years to infiltrate and divide the church into tens of thousands of different denominations each having their own traditions, rituals, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.\\
And every single one of these either directly or indirectly left the Orthodox Church."
Cluny

So, you admit that the Orthodox Church has been infiltrated by Satan.

Good information, thanks for your post.

---Elder on 7/22/14


the story of job. when job suffered - family, possessions, health destroyed his so-called 'friends' (like christians) came over & said 'YOU SINNED' that is why you are suffering. when the church see others suffering they are quick to accuse that IT IS SIN.
another is you attract what you think. you hear from the church deny yourself. so when you give away everything you lose it.
---mike on 7/22/14


is this faith.
go to a church pastor preach the 'gospel' - that's a sin, this a sin, you'll go to hell'. every sunday SERVICE there's offering - give your 10% , then you see pastors drive luxury cars & can afford to buy a house they will quote 1 tim 5:17 - pastors should be paid well. that's expoitation, manipulation, fear tactic NOT FAITH. people work, deal with butt kissing, stress, that's the reality of the world & NOT sit down & quote 1tim5:17 . pastors can get rich & afford to live an easy life. their mentality is 'manna' will rain from heaven. obviously pastors see christianity is $10 billion industry manna does fall from heaven. that's why church is out of touch.
---mike on 7/22/14


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I've heard it said "Since the day I left school no-one tells me what to do or not do" etc. Such people want approval for every action.
---Rita_H on 7/21/14

Reminds me of a Scripture.

Rom 1:32 "and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them"

We are either surrendered to God or are in rebellion to God. There is no middle ground.

Faith in God is like climbing a greased pole, you are either moving upward or sliding backward. There is no standing still.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/22/14


My dear Sis.Rita, you got it exactly, yes, that it.wonderfull english wit &
I love the way you sum it up, it exactly, how people are..
look for a christian after they're in real
trouble.

Love of Jesus!
---Elena_9555 on 7/22/14


Elena, a great answer. What it all boils down to is people not wishing to be under the authority of anyone else. They wish to have freedom 'to do their own thing' but, at the same time, when they desire something they expect others to do their bidding.

Our individual countries operate well when people obey the rules and it's the same with God's rules. It is not the church which is out of touch with the real world it is that the world does not wish to be governed by God's rules so they make up their own.

People desire power without responsibility.
---Rita_H on 7/22/14


//A person contemplating on becoming a christian would definately be confused about who is right.//

Steven,
This is your logic.
You are first saying that Satan for two thousand years, lets see, Satan defeated Christ at the Cross. You are also saying that if God, who is Almighty, wants to save a sinner, He cannot because the sinner might not be save because he is confused. Don't you realize first that Jesus defeated Satan at the Cross? Don't you realize that the all sinners are confused? They are lost.
What you should do is join a denomination, maybe you will learn something good instead of the trash you preach.
---Luke on 7/22/14


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\\Satan has had over two thousand years to infiltrate and divide the church into tens of thousands of different denominations each having their own traditions, rituals, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.\\

And every single one of these either directly or indirectly left the Orthodox Church.

Among these are the worldly denominational Church of Steveng.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/14


A person contemplating on becoming a christian would definately be confounded and confused by the many different interpretations of the bible. Satan has had over two thousand years to infiltrate and divide the church into tens of thousands of different denominations each having their own traditions, rituals, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Christians bookstores have a plethora of books each having their own interpretation of the bible and many doctrines.

A person contemplating on becoming a christian would definately be confused about who is right.

My suggestion is for a person to read through the NT first then read from the beginning of the OT to see what was said in the NT was true.
---Steveng on 7/21/14


If the church is not in touch with the world, it cannot help the world. We are supposed to be living in the world, just not of the world's system.
---love.jesus on 7/21/14


The church in not to be in touch with the world. It's suppose to be in touch with Jesus. The church is suppose to have the answers for a lost and dying world. Not the world answers for the church.
---Bryan on 7/21/14


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Well, in church you have all types of people, but the truth is most people do not want to do as God has spoken
In his word, you go anywhere people no matter race, color, education or lack there of ...people since Adam & Eve like she persuaded by the serpent (satan) people want money, pleasure and not to suffer, not bother with being compassionate, just leave me ij my mansion or my shack rich or poor nobody wants to serve God, they want to be independent of the next individual, they want to be "high on spirits or crack!" Or men , women do as they please.. the world has chosen the God of this world be unreliable to our Sovereign God.. nobody wants to take responsibility for anything ..much less the mess men society had created.
---Elena_9555 on 7/21/14


The church cant be out of touch with the real world, if the church tries to do that then its lost,"the bible says do not conform to the world, God never changes, he never moves. its you who moves further away from God.Dont try to bring the world into the Church.
---n_harry on 7/21/14


Hello,Sis.Rita, I love your bloggsWow!
I have heard the same thing over here, it's "a cop out!" IS IT EASIER TO COMPLAIN.. or get real with the pain, the sin in our lives, or more fun keep in denial, and say I don't like them anyhow & apart fr their wimpy cry baby My church is like the most NON legalistic I have ever seen in my life!!
I know all about legalistic churches cause you got a bunch of rules you break one just look at any human being... too, strict to live for God!
That why We got Jesus to help us!
---Elena_9555 on 7/21/14


The real world is Sinful
---n_harry on 7/21/14


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"The church is out of touch with the real world" is a phrase I hear mainly from those who never set foot inside a church. They refer to church as a general thing and know nothing about churches except from having attended a church wedding or their daughter went once and found it very legalistic - that kind of thing. What they really mean, I think, if that they don't want there to be any authority in their lives. People now wish to 'do their own thing' and a decent church has rules which offend those who don't accept rebuke or correction. I've heard it said "Since the day I left school no-one tells me what to do or not do" etc. Such people want approval for every action.

125 words gone, sorry.
---Rita_H on 7/21/14


I am sure some churches are out of touch with many things. However I hope, in other ways that the church is out of touch with the 'real world' because the 'real world' is generally out of touch with God.

I have experienced churches which do not know that the western-world's culture owes little to God's world these days, much more entrenched in humanistic evolutionary philosophies or fluffy Eastern religions. Once a large percentage of westerners had a concept of the Creator God but now humanistic educational indoctrination has to a large extent taken away the reality of the God of the Bible.
---Warwick on 7/21/14


In some aspects yes. I discovered this about my previous church recently, which is a totally biblical and a good church. Sometimes we fall in love with the principles of christian life but lose the practicallity of it. James said it this way "...I will show you my faith by my works" or Jesus "I am the vine you are the branches, a good vine creates good fruit." Also people are at different stages of life thus they may need to go to a different biblical church.
---Scott1 on 7/21/14


"How would you answer them and would you actually agree with them - to a certain point?" Yes.
How would I answer? If the called out ones were of the world, they would concern themselves with the world, and the world would love its own: but they are not of the world, because Jesus has chosen them out of the world, and world hates them, and are critical. For those who conform to that sensually based system, are of the world: therefore they speak of, and are concerned with the things of the world, and the world hears and agrees with them. But, "No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." Refs, Jhn 15:19>1Jo 4:5>2Ti 2:4
---Josef on 7/20/14


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Rita, I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Can you be a little more specific?
---love.jesus on 7/20/14


Rita, Since there are mega denominations, which one would you refer to as "the church?"
---1stcliff on 7/20/14


Since the purpose of the Church is to put people in touch with God, I would ask what is meant by "out of touch with the real world."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/20/14


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