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When Did Mankind ProCreate

God told Adam & Eve to be fruitful & multiply while they lived in the Garden, before they sinned. (G1:27-28) Since they didn't know they were going to sin & be expelled from the Garden, just when might they likely have begun obeying God's word to procreate?

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 ---Leon on 8/5/14
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Thanks Anonymous (whoever you are) for being so open & transparent about your feelings. Any time a blog discussion isn't to your liking (especially ones you didn't originate) you don't have to hang around or participate. You can simply walk off the "play ground", no harm no foul.

There's one thing I like about Cluny. He's true to what he believes (right or wrong). I consider him a brother in Christ. I'm just not going to let him get to comfortable & fall asleep on the job. Iron sharpens iron! (Pv. 27:17)

So, please feel free to avoid my blogs, especially if you don't have any fruitful inputs as pertains to the blog question(s). I can't say I'll miss you because, frankly, I can't see you in the dark.
---Leon on 8/14/14


Now, now Cluny ~ temper, temper! Are you calling me a pin head? That's very funny! I once had a "friend" tell me the reason hair doesn't grow on top of my head any more is because my head is too hard. :)

Why don't we both declare a cease fire & really give "Glory to Jesus!"? Whaddya say? Peace!!!
---Leon on 8/14/14


\\This blog isn't about you & your point Cluny, you crazy wabbitt! :D That's my point!
---Leon on 8/13/14\\

Are you saying this blog is about YOUR point, where you ask questions and make fun of the answers you don't like?

Or could your point be the one that makes it difficult for you to find hats that fit?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/14/14


It may be necessary in the future to avoid any blog questions asked by Leon, as he seems to use these blogs to verbally abuse others, believing if he posted the question he ownes and controls the total feed.

This outrageous behavior I have noticed time and again on Leon's questions, even abusing others who discuss scripture he finds a way to answer in insults.

Foolish questions avoid, because they do bring strife especially with those who have the maturity of a 3rd grader. If I didn't know better I would think Leon and Cluny were little girls pulling each other's hair on some school play ground, who would end up in a time out. They both need a time out. Get them off the play ground please.
---Anonymous on 8/14/14


This blog isn't about you & your point Cluny, you crazy wabbitt! :D That's my point!
---Leon on 8/13/14




Again, you prove my point, Leon.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/13/14


You "notice" Cluny? Really?! You're about as observant as a blind man sitting in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. People like you (doctrinally blind) can't win the argument with your Bible misinterpretations, so instead you always try & spin it with pseudo-intellect. Examine yourself Cluny! smh :/
---Leon on 8/13/14


I notice, Leon, that you cannot actually respond to what I say so you indulge in ad hominem arguments.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/13/14


I know your game Luke & I'm not going to play. This blog is about Adam & Eve's procreation, not your cunningly crafted castigation.

That's right Cluny! That's all you do is hold up a magic mirror so others can see themselves when you really need to examine (take a good, long, look at) yourself.
---Leon on 8/12/14


\\All that seems to matter to you Cluny is your sanctimonious clunyisms.\\

All I do is hold up a mirror so you can see yourself.

Don't blame me if you don't like your own reflection.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/12/14




Dear Leon,
you are seeing too much from others. I was answering kindly, with respect. I don't have anything against you, or what you believe. It is pretty simple, you do get upset at others because they do not agree with you. You know that. As a brother, you should give everyone a break, many of us just don't know the real truth sometimes about certain matters, and you are not going provide the answer for us when you get upset. No truth comes that way. I am interested when you bring questions up, it is good exercise for studying. Nothing wrong with that. Stop seeing things that are not there, no one is out to get you. I know I am not. Agape
---Luke on 8/12/14


"...I did not say you were upset..."
---Luke on 8/12/14


I didn't say "you" said that, did I? I was just making a statement of fact Luke. Furthermore, I've never said everyone should agree with me.

What makes you think that I think I have all the truth & why do you feel you have to lecture me on the dos & don'ts of blogging? smh :)

You obviously have some issues with me. Is it because of my stand on what I believe about Adam & Eve procreating while living in the Garden? That's it, isn't it?

Please try & be objective about what you say in the future because your current comments about me are very one sided & biased.
---Leon on 8/12/14


All that seems to matter to you Cluny is your sanctimonious clunyisms. So, you think it's okay for you to take random cheap shots at me, but when the table is turned you cry foul, "don't shoot the messenger." Really?! :)
---Leon on 8/11/14


MALUM, MALUS ~ Really? That's Nutty Professor goofy & rather intellectually dull & certainly does not "appeal" to me since I don't believe it was the forbidden fruit. If the actual fruit would've been a serpent that could leap of the pages of Scripture, it would've long ago bitten a multitude of people like you.
---Leon on 8/11/14

The above is the definition of catty and someone foaming at the mouth.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/14


//I'm not upset or trying to convince anyone of anything. We all need to grow spiritually & see truth for our individual selves. It's a process that takes longer for some than others. So be it!//

I did not say you were upset trying to convince others. And we do need to grow spiritually, it is a life time process. But not everyone is going to agree with you. There is many reasons for that. I don't believe you have all the truth. No one does. We should reason together. No need to cut anyone down for not agreeing. If someone is right, it's ok to say they are right. And if not give reason why you think they are not right. If someone does not accept your answer as truth, it is ok, you cannot make anyone believe you anyway. Agape
---Luke on 8/12/14


I forgot to mention that I'm not one of those persons who determine doctrine based on artistic conventions, in this case Eve offering Adam an apple.

I simply gate two reasons for this being in our cultural consciousness.

Does the kind of fruit really matter that much to our salvation? Or will JEsus examine us about this at the Judgement and determine our eternal fate accordingly?

I think not.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/14


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\\ & certainly does not "appeal" to me since I don't believe it was the forbidden fruit\\

Does it matter if it appeals to you?

Does it matter whether you believe it or not?

I was merely passing information. Don't shoot the messenger.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/14


Well, I certainly wouldn't want to deprive you of the last catty word Kat, so inundate us more with your foam at the mouth tirades, please.

Et tu Cluny?! Why am I not surprised bud? :)

The FIG is the common fruit bearing tree, "first" spoken of (named) in the Bible. (G3:7) That should tell you something, but alas I fear the clear words of God have once again fallen on deaf ears.

MALUM, MALUS ~ Really? That's Nutty Professor goofy & rather intellectually dull & certainly does not "appeal" to me since I don't believe it was the forbidden fruit. If the actual fruit would've been a serpent that could leap of the pages of Scripture, it would've long ago bitten a multitude of people like you.
---Leon on 8/11/14


\\Luke: I think you, Kat & Micha are imagining things that fit into your comfort zones of what you want to believe rather than believing what the Bible actually says?\\

And you never do that, do you, Leon?

As far as depicting the forbidden fruit as an apple, there are two reasons:

1. It's a common fruit-bearing tree.
2. It's an excruciating pun in Latin. "Evil" is MALUM. "Apple" is MALUS.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/14


It's a process that takes longer for some than others. So be it!

---Leon on 8/11/14

The only one here who needs time to process is you Leon. I'm sure all here wish you the very best in your endeavors of growing up into the fullness and statue of Jesus Christ as you cast down imaginations that exalt itself above the Knowledge of God whom Christ is made unto us wisdom and knowledge. As long as you reach for gnostic knowledge you will remain a spiritual midget.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/14


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Luke: I think you, Kat & Micha are imagining things that fit into your comfort zones of what you want to believe rather than believing what the Bible actually says? Perhaps this stems from childhood programmed images of blue eyed, blonde haired Adam & Eve, & the apple being portrayed as the forbidden fruit, etc.

You guys try very hard to square peg Ro. 5:12 & G1-4 regardless of what it says about ALL living people (as well as the rest of creation) being cursed by Adam's sin.

I'm not upset or trying to convince anyone of anything. We all need to grow spiritually & see truth for our individual selves. It's a process that takes longer for some than others. So be it!

---Leon on 8/11/14


Kathr,
You do not have to get all upset when you answer. Just give your answer as many other do. I agree with you and Micha, that no children were born to Adam and Eve until after the fall, agreeing with (Rom. 5:12). All descendants of Adam are under the curse. The whole creation means all mankind fell after the fall. If there had been born children before the fall, the passage in (Rom. 5:12) would not say, " death spread to all men." which would mean that those who born before the fall would not have had any sin, but as we know all men sinned.
A & E were fruitful and multiplied after the fall for all men are under sin. We are not told how many years went by before Cain got married, man lived many years then. Agape
---Luke on 8/11/14


wivv: Do they not get their understanding from translating the same extant Tanakh & New Testament manuscripts? If so, why does it read differently?
---Leon on 8/10/14


Good Leon, because I won't be drawn into your imagination like you have drawn others into. I know what I believe and why, and refuse to entertain any thoughts outside any scripture that would under mind the Redemption of man through Jesus Christ, or the doctrine of original sin that is passed to all BORN of Adam and Eve after the fall. If this puts you off, GOOD. But it does only because you cannot entice me into deceiving spirits bringing lies. We are instructed to test the spirits as to lies and truth. Your words and imagination do not pass the test of truth.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/14


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Leon: Many theologians are debating rather God is giving His direction to "multiply" to animals or Adam & Eve. In the Hebrew and Koine Greek it reads different than you have in English.
---wivv on 8/10/14


You know Kat, I don't know how I could've possibly IMAGINED I could have a rational conversation with you. Obviously, I hoped for too much! You have proven that is impossible. So, it won't happen again.

I really feel sorry for the people who actually know & have to deal with you personally on a daily basis. Whew, I can only IMAGINE that must really be something hellish. I shake the dust off of my feet regarding you. Never mind!
---Leon on 8/10/14


Leon, why do you insist on IMAGINING things scripture never states. you imagine sinless perfect children before the fall, you imagine the brain was far superior than today based on a myth even scientists dispute. What exactly do you hope to teach us by all this nonsense? As Micha also pointed out they would not be included in Romans 5. So what are we to do with your imaginary friends? Where has scripture ever spoken of them? Or any reference made to them at all?

Since they were not "BORN in sin",as all else who are "in Adam," they can never be redeemed, or be part of the NEW Creation in any way.
You do have some imagination that does exalt itself above the Knowledge of God. I don't.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/14


"24 So he drove out the man, and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

So were all the rest left in the Garden of Eden? Nothing here about driving ALL out. Or " the MEN" as in plural."
---kathr4453 on 8/10/14


Kat:

1. Who were the "every one" that Cain was afraid of? (G4:14)
2. Who were the "whosoever/any" God protected Cain from? G4:15)
a.) Is it not possible Abel had a wife & children? :)
3. Where did Cain's wife (G4:17) come from since she wasn't mentioned in the G4:1-2 account of Adam & Eve's children?
---Leon on 8/10/14


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"24 So he drove out the man...

Kat: Obviously that means MANKIND, male & female(s).

Also, on thinking about G3:16, I thought I'd toss you a "bone"-us question. Can you tell us which is harder to birth, boys or girls?

Thank you! :)
---Leon on 8/10/14


24 So he drove out the man, and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

So were all the rest left in the Garden of Eden? Nothing here about driving ALL out. Or " the MEN" as in plural.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/14


"There is some debate about this command of God.[?] Was it to given Adam and Eve or was it concerning the animals?..."
---wivv on 8/9/14


Who is debating it (G1:27:28) wivv? There's nothing to debate. It reads very plain & clearly. All anyone, that can read, need do is to "read it" to understand God was talking to Adam & Eve. Read it wivv! smh :)
---Leon on 8/9/14


There is some debate about this command of God. Was it to given Adam and Eve or was it concerning the animals? But, regardless, to answer your question, Adam and Eve had their first child after leaving the Garden of Eden. Read Genesis 3:24 and Genesis 4:1
---wivv on 8/9/14


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Leon you short sighted person, were did Cain's wife come from if not from Adam and Eve did she just fall out sky or did she evolved from monkeys? See there are few thing about the word takes a little Faith you think.
---Bryan on 8/9/14


"...just when might they likely have begun obeying God's word to procreate?"

The day Adam saw Eve, I would have, after all she was given him to wed. I believe he would have consummated the marriage that very day.
---josef on 8/9/14


A very astute observation on your part Josef & a very real possibility regarding A & E, especially considering how enamored Adam was with Eve, i.e., WOW "bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh." (G2:23)

God gave Adam the green light & I believe he went for a test drive right away! :) That's the logical conclusion, unlike the stilted, nonsensical & foolish thinking of some here that A & E waited until they were booted out of the Garden. Absurd!!!
---Leon on 8/9/14


"...just when might they likely have begun obeying God's word to procreate?"
The day Adam saw Eve, I would have, after all she was given him to wed. I believe he would have consummated the marriage that very day.
---josef on 8/9/14


..........Therefore Romans 5:12 would not apply to them........---micha9344 on 8/8/14

Absolutely Micha, as you understand Romans 5. I know Warwick will come back and curse me along with Leon, yet we are in agreement here, I doubt you will be cursed for knowing truth. Those then could NEVER BE REDEEMED, AS Romans 5 could not apply to them. No scripture whatsoever suggests there were others kicked out of the garden, or even covered in animal skins pointing to Christ's covering and eventual redemption. What is up with all these blogs of Leon's wanting to change the facts of Genesis by introducing all sorts of nonsense including Adam & Eve having a more superior mind ( 100% vs our 10%) . His motives are not Christ centered.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/14


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Warwick: Her infernal bark is worst than her bite. Ignore the hackle hag. :)
---Leon on 8/9/14


Cliff: Your fruitless, silly questions have nothing to do with this blog, so I'm going to pass.
---Leon on 8/9/14


Bingo nothing Warwick. To humor Loen with suppositions again shows you do not really understand Romans 5 AND 1st Corinthians 15. If children were born before the fall sinless, and you now want to claim universal death came to all even the sinless based on Adam's sin, then universal life would have to come to all, and that one does not have to actually be IN CHRIST to be made alive. And why would the blood line of Jesus have to come thru Seth, who was born after Abel died and Cain was disqualified. Wouldn't one of these sinless children be more acceptable, who's sin was by default, and not in actuality.

Ok, so we have just another imagination exalting itself above the knowledge of God being tossed and turned by every wind of nonsense.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/14


Here's the thing Warwick, ADAM means "Human or man" So if ADAM had children before he sinned, he only brought into the world MORE ADAMS. More perfect sinless ADAMS who could not be condemned under the first ADAM. The LAST ADAM who is Jesus Christ, is not named ADAM. The Last ADAM, Jesus Christ, means He was made flesh, who was fully God and fully ADAM or fully HUMAN ....Hebrews 2 explains.

And as someone already stated here, there would still be sinless humans alive today.

But please go on Warwick, we all need to know how grounded you aren't in scripture as you condemn so many who don't believe in you ABSOLUTE TRUTHS, yet you humor Leon's lies as nothing?????
---kathr453 on 8/9/14


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Shira, the bible says Adam lived 930 years and "then" he died, it says nothing about a spiritual death, this idea was instituted by satan's lie that you will not "surely" die !
---1stcliff on 8/8/14


Bingo Warwick!
---Leon on 8/8/14


Leon, If God told you that if you disobey Him you will "eid" would you then have fear of disobeying when you have no idea what "eid" is ?
No law imposes an unknown penalty for any crime
That would be "unjust"!
---1stcliff on 8/8/14


Adam and Eve died spiritually.
---Shira4368 on 8/8/14


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That's unintelligible gibberish Micha. Does it hurt when you try very hard not to understand?

Cliff: You assume God didn't cause something to die to vividly illustrate (show) to A & E what death was. :)

Regarding consequences, what if you (me or anyone) had never faced (experienced) a consequence, would anyone know what it was?
---Leon on 8/8/14


I suppose we should consider that Adam and Eve were made sin free but sinned. Even if children were conceived before the fall the likelihood is that they would be like their parents and sin.

Secondly Romans 8:22 tells us the whole creation was affected by the fall. I imagine that would also include any children born without sin, as they are obviously part of this creation.
---Warwick on 8/8/14


/The Bible says because of Adam's sin ALL die. (Ro.5:12) That means Adam, Eve & ALL the children they could've had before & would've had after the fall. ALL!!!\-Leon on 8/8/14
Let's read the whole verse then.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Adam and Eve could have had children before the fall, if the conditions were right.
But any before the fall did not sin, only Adam and Eve.
Therefore Romans 5:12 would not apply to them.
Since it does apply to "all men", it is because they are under the curse, hence born after the fall.
---micha9344 on 8/8/14


Leon, Concerning "Justice" is it just to impose a penalty for a crime that no one has knowledge of ? IE God told them if they disobeyed they would die, if nothing ever dies (as evangelicals believe) they would have no concept of the severity of this law !
Even in human law all penalties are spelled out "before" the crime is committed !
And we all understand consequences !
---1stcliff on 8/8/14


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"Anything over zero is still an increase."
---micha9344 on 8/7/14


That's illogical & simply doesn't add up: To increase you must first have something. "Zero" is nothing! To increase you must, at a minimum, begin with "1".

"...children...before they sinned? Some seem to believe they would be here on the earth. Why? They were born sin free...born before the [fall] they would not be bound to us."
---Bryan on 8/8/14


That's a false dichotomy. The Bible doesn't support that nonsense. The Bible says because of Adam's sin ALL die. (Ro.5:12) That means Adam, Eve & ALL the children they could've had before & would've had after the fall. ALL!!!
---Leon on 8/8/14


Cliff how many children did Adam & Eve have before they sinned? Some seem to believe they would be here on the earth. Why? They were born sin free why would they be on a earth full of sin? They would have been born before the fail they would not be bound to us.
---Bryan on 8/8/14


Anything over zero is still an increase.
---micha9344 on 8/7/14


"Leon, Cliffology? maybe [?], being made in God's image we acquired some of His characteristics like knowing good from evil, but maybe you have a few characteristics missing? My advice is don't ever sit in jury duty. (especially if I'm on trial !)" ---1stcliff on 8/7/14

Cliff: Yes ol' bud, "Cliffology" unless you have a better word for it. Also, A & E knew God's goodness before the fall, but they came into the knowledge of evil afterwards. (G3:4-10)

What in the world ever gave you the idea you weren't currently being tried? What do you think, will there be enough evidence to convict or find you innocent & free you? :)
---Leon on 8/7/14


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Leon, Cliffology ? maybe, being made in God's image we acquired some of His characteristics like knowing good from evil, but maybe you have a few characteristics missing?
My advice is don't ever sit in jury duty. (specially if I'm on trial !)
---1stcliff on 8/7/14


Micha: All I can tell you is what Scripture plainly says. You're obviously free to believe what you want, right or wrong.

Have you ever wondered why God put Adam to sleep? Is it likely if God hadn't Adam would've felt pain? Adam & Eve started feeling pain only after the fall, really?

Assuming you've never experienced pain before, what if I said to you, "You're going to feel a whole lot 'more' pain the next time you stub your toe". Would your reaction be "okay" or "what, I don't understand"? But, what if I said. "You know how painful it was when you stubbed your toe, well it's going to hurt even more the next time you do it".

Comprende amigo! :)
---Leon on 8/7/14


So, Leon, you are saying that Eve had pain and sorrow before eating the fruit?-since your interpretation seems to be she had kids and it was in pain and sorrow, only to be increased with the curse.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
I believe pain, sorrow, and death came with the curse, not before. I also believe that Adam had no pain from God removing a part of him from which He made Eve.
---micha9344 on 8/7/14


The question remains: Did Adam & Eve start having children while in the Garden or after they were expelled from it?

"... 'was' is past tense...this is what Leon bases his whole argument... the conjecture that Eve had to have known what childbirth felt like for the curse to have any effect..."[?]---micha9344 on 8/6/14

Micha: The Bible narrative, in using the word "was", is talking to us (people who live long after the fact) about past events. Adam likely said at the time, "She 'IS' (present tense) the mother of all living".

Did God tell Eve about increased pain in childbearing if she hadn't already birthed children? Come on, really?! :)
---Leon on 8/7/14


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"Leon, We are made in "His" image knowing justice from injustice! And we know for a fact that God is love"!
---1stcliff on 8/7/14


Cliff: What you say is "half true". Yes, the Bible says, man was made in the image of God. But, can you please give a source for that part about our "knowing justice from injustice"? I don't recall reading that in the Bible. It actually sounds like more of your Cliffology.
---Leon on 8/7/14


Leon, We are made in "His" image knowing justice from injustice !
And we know for a fact that God is love !
---1stcliff on 8/7/14


"Leon, I see it quite plainly,by your 'theory' God would have condemned the innocents with the guilty.
No God is, of all things, 'Just' That would have been unjust! Satan knew that [?], but apparently,you don't!"
---1stcliff on 8/6/14


Cliff: Your problem isn't with me, it's with "Paul", i.e., Romans 5:12, of whom you don't believe was an apostle of Jesus Christ. Subsequently, you discount his writings as not being from God.

Who are you to say what God does is either "just" or "unjust"?
---Leon on 8/6/14


Leon, I see it quite plainly,by your "theory" God would have condemned the innocents with the guilty.
No God is, of all things, "Just"
That would have been unjust !
Satan knew that, but apparently ,you don'!
---1stcliff on 8/6/14


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Sorry you can't (or else don't want to) see it Micha & Cliff. So be it!
---Leon on 8/6/14


"When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. (NLT)

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, & death through sin, & so death spread to all men because all sinned (EST)

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, & death through sin, & so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (NASB)

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, & death by sin, & so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned..." (KJB, Romans 5:12)


Cliff: Adam's sin brought death to himself, Eve & "everyone" else...
---Leon on 8/6/14


Does it not occur to anyone that persons born before sin would be living today.
They would not have inherited death!
The reason Christ died for us so that the curse could be removed from us and we too could keep living !
---1stcliff on 8/6/14


..."And WAS is past tense, not present. Glory to Jesus Christ!"
---Cluny on 8/6/14


At the time Adam made that declaration, it "was" present (current) tense, i.e., SHE WAS. :) Since then, it has become "past (ancient) tense".
---Leon on 8/6/14


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/"Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she WAS [present tense] the mother of all living." (G3:20)\-Leon on 8/5/14
In any English book I have seen, "was" is past tense.
And on this is what Leon bases his whole argument.
Oh, and the conjecture that Eve had to have known what childbirth felt like for the curse to have any effect.
The possibility exists with a straight forward reading, since chapter and verse were added later, that the serpent made his move very soon after day 6. I personally believe it was day 7, when God rested.
Let the belittlement and the berating begin. You have my permission to do so, Leon.
---micha9344 on 8/6/14


\\Just because G4:1-2 comes after G3, many of us have assumed that's the logical chronological progression of events, i.e., they were born after the fall.\\

I didn't say BORN. I said CONCEIVED before the Fall.

And WAS is past tense, not present.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/6/14


"...Obviously [?] satan got to them before that "happening" else there would have been two races of people [?], those with sin who would die and those without sin who would keep living!"
---1stcliff on 8/5/14


I totally disagree Cliff. Even though Eve ate first, the Bible says the responsibility for sin fell squarely upon Adam's shoulders. Adam was given rulership over ALL of God's earthly creation. (G1:26) By his choosing to sin, it brought the dire consequences of sin upon Eve & ALL others who were living. Likewise, ALL the other living creatures on earth were adversely affected, & even the ground was cursed because of his sin. (G3:17) The disaster was greater than the Great Flood.
---Leon on 8/6/14


All mankind has been conceived in sin since Adam's sin, (a la Psalm 51:5) born with a sin nature, see Galatians 5:17. We inherited it from Adam. Revelation 22:3 says there will be no more curse because Jesus, though sinless, died on our behalf (the wages of sin is death Romans 6:23) and rose again that we may be set free from the cycle of sin and death "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" 1 Corinthians 15:22. I believe this tells us that all mankind (from birth because of Adam's sin) is sinful from conception.

If Eve had conceived before she sinned this child/children could have been born sinless and Scripture never mentions any such person/s.
---Warwick on 8/6/14


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How many children did Adam & Eve have before they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Or the children they had after they ate? We only have the story of Cain & Able. Do you think Cain & Able were the only two? Jesus said we are all born after Adam. God said multiply, not add. Multiply. Probably many.
---Bryan on 8/6/14


"It might be possible that Cain and Abel were conceived before the fall.

But to assert this dogmatically has no basis and would be sheer speculation.

Glory to Jesus Christ!"
---Cluny on 8/5/14


That's a very interesting thought Cluny. I've not heard nor considered that one before. Just because G4:1-2 comes after G3, many of us have assumed that's the logical chronological progression of events, i.e., they were born after the fall. That may not be right.
Cain & Abel would certainly fit into the "all living" category. (G3:20)
---Leon on 8/5/14


"Leon, immediately, I would think."
---love.jesus on 8/5/14


I agree Love. Eve knew about pain in child bearing before being put out of the Garden. God said it would be increased. (G3:16) "Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she WAS [present tense] the mother of all living." (G3:20)
---Leon on 8/5/14


It might be possible that Cain and Abel were conceived before the fall.

But to assert this dogmatically has no basis and would be sheer speculation.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/5/14


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Cliff, I don't think anything is particularly obvious about this story. People have to read into it all sorts of things for it to make sense.
---love.jesus on 8/5/14


Leon, immediately, I would think.
---love.jesus on 8/5/14


Leon, Obviously satan got to them before that "happening" else there would have been two races of people, those with sin who would die and those without sin who would keep living !
---1stcliff on 8/5/14


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