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Did God Divorce Israel

Many condone very abusive and lopsided marriages by saying that God hates divorce.

My question is ...

if God hates divorce, did God unjustly divorce Israel?

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 ---aka on 8/15/14
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Barb, can you show us a verse or two where Jesus specifically said Gentiles would be saved, or preach to the Gentiles. Make sure The exact word GENTILE is used. Please don't assume Nations means Gentiles. As Israel was scattered among the nations, so go ye into the Nations would be for the Jews to preach to the lost sheep of Israel.

With that said, what do you base your salvation on? Please remember, it can only come from the lips of Jesus....

Also remember Peter had a hard time even going to Cornelius or into the house of a Gentile. When did Jesus give permission for Peter to do that?......remember it must come from Jesus lips while still alive before the crucifixion.
---kathr4453 on 8/31/14


Jesus never taught that branches are broken off for the Gentiles sake or that broken branches could be grafted back in. Jesus said "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned". There is only one Way for both Jew and Gentile and that is to abide in Jesus. John 15:1-11. If one does not abide in the words of Jesus then their fruit will not be the Truth.
---barb on 8/31/14


Thank you Kathr

And your point is extremely important and many seem to forget it.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/31/14


Samuel, good post. What so many also overlook is only SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, so that the Gentiles could be grafted in, and those broken off God is able to graft them in again.
---kathr4453 on 8/29/14


Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

JESUS said that the Kingdom of GOD will be taken from the Jewish nation and give to all.

Jews can still be saved by coming to JESUS.

Rom 11:24
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Some churches do not want the Jews to join.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/29/14




Luke 2:36-38

36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity,

37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


Just an FYI you guys to be careful here. The apostles could have come from any of the 12 tribes. There have always been a faithful remnant from all the tribes.
---kathr4453 on 8/29/14


Here is an excellent example of God dealing with His chosen people regardless of their obedience. The story of Esther. Those particular Jews at that time did not go back, but remained where they were, very worldly etc. So much so that Esther married a Gentile King, totally forbidden, yet because of their worldliness, God allowed such a union in order to save His people in that area, who were about to be wiped out. Talk about an everlasting love.
---kathr453 on 8/29/14


Conclusion:
Isa 62:4
Rev 21:9
Jhn 1:12 Rev 19:8 Phl 3:9
---joseph on 8/28/14

Note removal of "your words" interpretation, leaving the scripture number. These "scriptures" below answer your "interpretation"s.
Eze 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love, I spread my skirt over thee, covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
Mat_15:24 But he answered, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
---Trav on 8/29/14


//Lost Sheep of the North House of Israel did recognize by signs, wonders (miracles prophecied)accept Christ.//

Trav,
sorry but you are wrong. Only those sinners from the northern house of Israel drawn by the Father and given to the Son were saved. Agape
---Luke on 8/28/14

Technically you may right, from the way you read the post.
GOD does the saving, it is his to call.
Amo_9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Rom_11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
---Trav on 8/29/14


No one Barb. Who are the "some say" you speak of?
---Leon on 8/28/14

Yes, Leon many speculate and search. You do not speak for everyone.
Barb, keep searching. Let us know of any find.
Research the "Stone of Scone", resting pillow of Jacob. Kings and queens are involved with this stone. Research the Gaelic languages in which are found connections to the Hebrew languages. Judah or the House of Israel?

Amo_9:9 For, lo, I will command, I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Jas_1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
---Trav on 8/29/14




.... when i first started blogging, i thought you on the inside looking out and down.
---aka on 8/27/14

Ohhhh, more I find, farther I become from being a good christian. Doubting Thomas, is my type. Found very little on my own....other men pointed (provoked)and i super sifted scripture witnesses to find "the truth", for me. Selfish? Yes, but foundational requirement. Excited by truth, it is hard to only point. Myself being a poor communicator is a hindrance. Myself as a provoker is easy...especially with like personality's. Intentionally provoke many to prove multiple, witnessing scriptures wrong. (Preachers most specially)
Scripture speaks to those it speaks with...their argument is with scripture....not me.
---Trav on 8/29/14


Leon, it's all out there, all the denominations, religions of the world are giving their views on the internet. "Some say" are what some believe...google it. Who sits on David's throne today? See for yourself.
---barb on 8/29/14


"Leon, who do you think sits on the throne of Judah today? Some say it is the Queen of England, some say it is Jesus and others say the throne is empty. David told Solomon that the throne succession was conditional, "That the Lord may continue his word that He spoke concerning me, saying IF thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said He) a man on the throne of Israel." 1st Kings 2:4."
---barb on 8/28/14


No one Barb. Who are the "some say" you speak of?
---Leon on 8/28/14


I was also asked to explain, in light of what I said, Jer. 3:8
Father allowed Israel as a nation and kingdom, with an established geographical location to be "put away" for a time. The land of Israel, as chosen for the establishment of His kingdom, was placed in a harlots position through the idolatry of her children, and the kingdom and domain granted her was taken, and her children scattered. Yet, with all that had been done she had the promise that He would "bring [her children] again into their land that [He] gave unto their fathers." and that the kingdom that shall be established, His kingdom, will have no end. Continued part 3.
---joseph on 8/28/14


Leon, who do you think sits on the throne of Judah today? Some say it is the Queen of England, some say it is Jesus and others say the throne is empty. David told Solomon that the throne succession was conditional, "That the Lord may continue his word that He spoke concerning me, saying IF thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said He) a man on the throne of Israel." 1st Kings 2:4.
---barb on 8/28/14


Conclusion:
The children of Israel were told that their land would be married. Isa 62:4
Jerusalem was told that her sons would marry her. Isa 62:5
We are informed that the New Jerusalem will be "the Lambs wife". Rev 21:9
The sacrificial atonement of Jesus gave "as many as received Him" the "power to become the sons of God,.." Jhn 1:12 As such believers are in Christ, Christ in them, one body, many members. They will be joined unto Jerusalem as the fine linen that adorns her. That fine linen "is the righteousness of the saints," Rev 19:8 and their righteousness is of Him. Phl 3:9
---joseph on 8/28/14


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//Lost Sheep of the North House of Israel did recognize by signs, wonders (miracles prophecied)accept Christ.//

Trav,
sorry but you are wrong. Only those sinners from the northern house of Israel who were drawn by the Father and given to the Son were saved. These people are the ones that are saved by grace through faith. Only those drawn by God the Father are made spiritually alive by the Holy Spirit. The rest remain the same, lost. Agape
---Luke on 8/28/14


Corrections to my previous post. These lines where meant to read.
"Father was never married to Israel [as a people]" and "He asked the [children] of Israel".....
It was pointed out to me that Jer. 3:14 addresses the children of Israel and reads "I am married to you". My reply was "The word translated "married" there is the Hebrew word "baal" and can be defined as either "master" or "husband" depending on the context. In this context master is the more applicable translation considering that the Father is not marrying man, He is adopting men [no gender implied] as sons, His children collectively, as the body of Christ, representatives of Himself." Continued.
---joseph on 8/28/14


Scripture becomes clear when our mission is Christs mission.
---Trav on 8/27/14

five years ago, when i first started blogging, i thought you on the inside looking out and down.

now, i realize, you are actually, on the inside/outside making sure the "right" people hear His voice. How righteous is that!?!

You say that i have A gift. ALL praise belongs to our Father. But, I must say that you have THE gift.
---aka on 8/27/14


Trav, not sure what you are saying ....but they are no longer the builders because they rejected the Stone. Matt 21:42-44.
---barb on 8/27/14

I try to be careful on interpretaions concerning the tribe that Christ came from. They are GODs to judge and decide what is going to happen.
I concern myself with what Jesus was concerned with.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Lam_5:3 We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers are as widows.
Search and find, listen for these sheep in scripture and life. Scripture becomes clear when our mission is Christs mission.
---Trav on 8/27/14


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Barb: As you know Jesus, King of Kings & Lord of Lords, didn't come initially to sit on an earthly throne. He came to suffer, die & be resurrected for the sins of the world. So, at that time He wasn't supposed to have sat on David's earthly thrown as king.

Judeo-Christianity, not Christianity-Judeo. All J-C means is Christianity has it's roots in Old Testament Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish (Judah) religious belief. Apart from these beliefs there would be no New Testament Christianity.

Yes, the USA! So, where is Judah?
---Leon on 8/27/14


Trav, not sure what you are saying but was it not Judah that Jesus took the Kingdom away from? Of course they can still enter into the Kingdom if they repent but they are no longer the builders because they rejected the Stone. Matt 21:42-44.
---barb on 8/27/14


Leon, Daniel was from the tribe of Judah and it was to his people that God spoke in Dan 9:24. Jesus would have sat on the throne of David if Judah had accomplished the works that God gave them to do.

Answers to your questions:
1) The bible does not refer to a group called Christianity-Judeo.

2) USA.
---barb on 8/27/14


Trav, interesting but as a seeker of truth I have to wonder where Judah is today. If Judah accepted Jesus as their King and became a light .....
---barb on 8/26/14

I wondered too. Jesus born through Judah was the light. National Judah did not become the light or promote the light. Wonder for the same people Jesus looked for. Matt 10:6/15:24. You are uncovering the doctrinal confusion of men by re-searching.
Judah...did not accept their own,Jesus. Most of the Apostles are thought to be Benjamites.
Lost Sheep of the North House of Israel did recognize by signs, wonders (miracles prophecied)accept Christ.
Like Christ, by sign are these Lost Sheep are found/recognized as is Judah.
Read Heb 8:10/Jer 31:33.
---Trav on 8/27/14


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2.) While the nation Israel daily defends herself against destruction from other middle-eastern nation, what nation is Israel's biggest ally & defender (protector)?
---Leon on 8/26/14

do you mean the isreal that the United Nations created in 1948?
---aka on 8/27/14


I have two question for you:
1.) Why is Christianity also referred to as Judeo-Christianity?
2.) While the nation Israel daily defends herself against destruction from other middle-eastern nation, what nation is Israel's biggest ally & defender (protector)?
---Leon on 8/26/14

Barb probably knows that Christianity is what it implies.
Judeo Christianity is a recent term of the last century. This new title should be investigated and considered by any Christian.

She may also realize that labeling yourself a jew does not mean you are one. Anyone could/can claim the name/religion and have as recorded.
There are appx 8+ million calling themselves jews in the USA. 8 million in the new Self named country of Israel.
---Trav on 8/27/14


There is only one Truth so why so many different versions of it?
---barb on 8/26/14

I reread this and love this statement. This question was my life frustration and catalyst to my search. Learned, researching men can point out their findings....but, the individual has to ask "the only teacher" Matt 23:8. One must find 2+ witnesses GOD provides in scripture.
I started with Heb 8:8-10. It has taken me many years to find and prove by scriptural witnesses, "truth". There is only one as you state and it found in GOD's scriptural witnesses with his blessing.
May GOD bless you in this.
1Co_9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
---Trav on 8/27/14


Indeed Barb, where is Judah? Kinda sounds like, "Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego?" :)

"If Judah accepted Jesus as their King and became a light unto the Gentiles then why isn't there one shephard and one flock?"

Remember Barb, Jesus is the Lion of Judah. He is the rightful heir to the throne of David.

I'm not sure I fully understand your question. But, I have two question for you:
1.) Why is Christianity also referred to as Judeo-Christianity?
2.) While the nation Israel daily defends herself against destruction from other middle-eastern nation, what nation is Israel's biggest ally & defender (protector)?
---Leon on 8/26/14


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Trav, interesting but as a seeker of truth I have to wonder where Judah is today. If Judah accepted Jesus as their King and became a light unto the Gentiles then why isn't there one shephard and one flock? There is only one Truth so why so many different versions of it? I would have to say Judah failed right along with her sister, Israel else all prophecy would have been fulfilled and we would be living in God's Kingdom on earth right now.
---barb on 8/26/14


//God hates sin...sin is disobedience and transgression of the law.//---barb on 8/25/14

i know God did not unjustly divorce Israel. the issue of to my initial question was the way that some versions translate mal 2:16 and how it is misused.

same verse...many different interpretations.
---aka on 8/26/14


He sent His Son into the world to teach them the Truth and they rejected the Truth, (Jesus). It's all there in the parable of the vineyard in Matt
---barb on 8/25/14

Barb...one of my favorite names. It was my late mothers also.
One thought is that Judah was not divorced put away when the Nth House of ten was so Christ would not be illegit.
Note Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31 there are two houses in the Israel.
Heb8:8 says..."and Judah".
Judah refused their own.
Nth House of "ten" lost sheep recognized and received him. Note "ten" virgins. Even the blind and the woman at the well knew of him.

Judah represents only 1/12th of Israel. She inherited the family Septre of Israel.
---Trav on 8/26/14


No, God did not unjustly divorce Israel. He gave them 70 weeks (490 years) to complete their work as God's Kingdom on earth, Dan 9:25. When the time was up He sent His Son into the world to teach them the Truth and they rejected the Truth, (Jesus). It's all there in the parable of the vineyard in Matt 21:33-46 and also see Matt 23:31-39.

What more could God do? Please read the song God sings to His beloved in Isaiah 5. God hates sin...sin is disobedience and transgression of the law.
---barb on 8/25/14


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//I was stunned to learn late in life (40+) that GOD had married.//

i had just realized yesterday through the discourse of kathr and me, that the covenant was indeed a sacred marriage covenant...in every way. it was stunning. the realization makes a complete fulfilling meal that will satisfy forever.

a love story...THE love story.
---aka on 8/25/14


/GOD's marriage was a stunner for me.// trav

what do you mean?
---aka on 8/25/14

I was stunned to learn late in life (40+) that GOD had married. The marriage/putting away/remarriage explains and confirms GOD's prophets and all scripture. Explains coming and death of Christ which confuses most.
It is the greatest love story ever....and ever written. I wept greatly reading utter confirmation of scripture in this rarely told truth.
Scriptures like these below...take on extended meaning in the light of.

Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD, If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
---Trav on 8/25/14


//GOD's marriage was a stunner for me.// trav

what do you mean?
---aka on 8/25/14


My question is ...
if God hates divorce, did God unjustly divorce Israel?
---aka on 8/15/14

GOD's marriage was a stunner for me.
Divorce? Who could give GOD the paperwork? No one. He put the Nth House away, polluted by adulteries.

He promises/prophecies to remarry Nth House. He can't without breaking his own laws on marriage.
The husband must be dead to free the wife from the first marriage.
Rom_7:3 : but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

This law was fulfilled when Christ died....freeing even the likewise adulterous Judah.
10 virgins...Heb 8:8 (states "and" Judah)
---Trav on 8/25/14


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The husband (God) tells the wife to leave until she can get things fixed up - and then God will take her back as though there had been no problem

An idea
---Peter on 8/24/14

peter,

let's not water down divorce and its severity.

but, somehow, i think you are getting it. check out Hosea.
---aka on 8/24/14


-aka on 8/24/14: Your point is taken yes, God does state that.

Given though that God still asks Israel to return and He will forgive her, the term divorce there is the OT divorce, which could be cancelled (as could the marriage be divorced).

I think that in the NT language (where divorce is less accepted), one MIGHT consider it more as a separation rather than a divorce.

The husband (God) tells the wife to leave until she can get things fixed up - and then God will take her back as though there had been no problem

An idea
---Peter on 8/24/14


//Aka, first show where God literally MARRIED Israel. This is hard to explain in 125. // kathr

a covenant is a marriage and marriage is a sacred covenant.

my point that i was trying was just that mal 2:16 is wrongly interpreted by some versions of the bible and misused by supposed Christians to keep well meaning people in very abusive relationships.

it reminds me of the incorrect and abusive usage of mal 3:8 for tithing. the new covenant calls for generosity and not guilt trips.

thanks for your contributions on this blog site.
---aka on 8/24/14


1st Cliff you said "The law was that once a man divorces his wife he could not remarry her!" That is not quite what it says, it has a qualifier that he could not remarry her IF SHE HAD MARRIED SOMEONE ELSE INBETWEEN.
---Rita_H on 8/24/14


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Dear kathr4453 8/22/14
Good points. Calvinism (Which I oppose) does use Covenant theology. Many Non-Calvinist use that system of understanding the Bible.
The Church is the Body of Christ but that is based on the Covenant made with Israel.
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
So I am basing my understanding on what the Bible says directly.
Read Matthew 8:11

NKJV Psalms 117:1,2
Praise the LORD, all you Gentiles!
Laud Him, all you peoples!
For His merciful kindness is great toward us,
And the truth of the LORD endures forever.
Praise the LORD!
---Samuelbb7 on 8/24/14


Kathr and peter...

IF God divorced Israel (I do not think God divorced Israel, actually), it may be that Israel was unfaithful to God first.---Peteron 8/23/14

Peter, IF you think that the Lord did not, just open to jer 3.8. You will see that he did exactly for the reason that you said. The divorce was just. But, the way that some versions interpret the verse, the divorce of the lord would have been abusive.

Kathr, I had a chance to reread your aka#2. It was very well written. Even though there is no mention of a marriage, we can safely assume there was and because of the books that you cited and the book of hosea, we can assume remarriage...a new covenant.
---aka on 8/24/14


"God unjustly divorce Israel?" Father was never married to Israel, in His own words, "Israel is My son, My firstborn." Exo 4:22>Hos 11:1. Father's marriage, as in His chosen coupling, is to the geographical location of Zion, with Jerusalem at her heart, the future wife His Son, from which He will reign through out eternity. Concerning Zion with emphasis on Jerusalem, Father made this declaration "I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine.">Eze 16:8 As far as divorcing her is concerned, He asked the nation of Israel, "Where is the certificate of your mother's divorce, Whom I have put away?">Isa 50:1
---joseph on 8/23/14


//In Isaac will thy seed be called. Israel after the FLESH are the physical descendants of JACOB.//

Kathr,
The seed of Isaac" in the passage is Jesus Christ.
(Romans 9:6-8) does not teach that, Israel after the flesh are physical descendants of Jacob.
What it does say is,
"For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor they all children because they are the seed of Abraham, "but, In Isaac your seed shall be called," (this are the children of promise) That is, those who are the children of the flesh, "these are not the children of God" But the children of Promise are counted as the seed (these are believers in Christ)
The Israel of God (1 Peter 2:9,10: Gal. 6:16).
---Luke on 8/24/14


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aka, I gave you the answer. The answer is the Old Covenant aka the Mosaec Covenant. So the question you want answered is: when did God end His Covenant with Israel? Where else do you find any relationship God had/ has with Israel. You wasted two posts talking in circles making this excuse and that having NOTHING to do with what I posted. What on earth does Markv have to do with this. The real issue here aka is, you didn't UNDERSTAND my answer.

Many today have what is called covenant marriages. This is based on the covenant in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 8/24/14


'did God unjustly divorce Israel?'

I assume not, firstly from what nature of God (God cannot do anything unjust), but also because, if you look at Mat 19:9, there is a second clause there 'except for sexual immorality'.

IF God divorced Israel (I do not think God divorced Israel, actually), it may be that Israel was unfaithful to God first.
---Peter on 8/23/14


//Aka, first show where God literally MARRIED Israel. //

when discussing sarah's death and burial, I do not need to prove her birth. I never said that the divorce was literal, so I don't need to prove the marriage is. That is just a smokescreen. The Lord said that he divorced Israel.

In fact, This is a great example of how scripture is used to keep people in an abusive setting. The scripture says one thing and through subterfuge, it gets muddled.

My concern is how mal 2:16 is misinterpreted in some versions and then misused.

//Aka#2//

I respect you too much to engage you in endless debate like markv did.
---aka on 8/23/14


Aka, first show where God literally MARRIED Israel. This is hard to explain in 125. Is not the mosaic covenant the marriage contract? Ans: YES.

When the kingdom was divided because of idolatry Israel is referenced as the 10 tribes, scattered. Judah and Benjamin are referred to as Judah. All technically are Israel, but in this case and explained again in Hebrews separate. To Israel AND the house of Judah. Also read further where God calls for their return and promises..Isaiah 14. So the word "divorce" here is not a literal technical legal official once and for all ending of the Old Covenant, not at that time. That's impossible. And If God divorced ALL of Israel literally, Jesus would be illegitimate.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/14


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Aka#2
We see the promise of a new marriage contract..aka the New Covenant given to ALL 12 tribes. Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 36. Read the WHOLE CHAPTER, FOR STARTERS. This is not to the Church or Gentiles. We have no land, and never will.

Now TODAY, the New Creature, both Jew and Gentile are under the everlasting covenant foreordained before the foundation of the world.

Today, when a Jew is saved, he DIES TO THE LAW, to be married to another...Romans 7. If he were divorced from the first law, he wouldn't have to DIE TO IT. Gentiles do not have to die to any LAW to be married to Jesus Christ. This was /is spoken to ALL JEWS, today.

Israel was the WIFE OF GOD, not the bride of Christ in the OT.
---kathr453 on 8/22/14


kathr, you can interpret Isa 50:1 that way if you like, but what does this verse mean? (didn't mean Jer 3:1).

Jer_3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Scott1, i am not part of Israel, my hope is in the BoC, which are comprised of God's chosen (Israel) that believe in Jesus as Christ and those not Israel that he grafts in.
---aka on 8/22/14


Samuel, agreed. Here is the point that I am not Covenant Theology aka, Calvinism. The MYSTERY kept secret.......lets remember in the OT a New Covenant was spoken of, so the NEW Covenant was no secret. BUT the Church was. This entirely new entity, neither Jew or Gentile, but ONE NEW MAN. Galatians also states the New man is neither Jew Gentile, man woman etc. again pointing out the CHURCH is His Body, an entirely NEW entity. Earthly Israel, will be included in the New Covenant. And Gentiles were never under the Old, but under the Everlasting Covenant from the beginning, referenced to in Genesis 3:15 and further explained to Abraham. With Abraham are two covenants, one to earthly Israel also with LAND and another to all families of the earth.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/14


aka No God did not divorce Israel. Isaiah 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away." Isaiah 50:1,God reminds the Jews that He has never divorced Israel, but Israel did abandon God. There was NO bill of divorce because God never gave it to them.

Romans 11:1-5 clearly teach that God did NOT divorce Israel...

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid
---kathr453 on 8/22/14


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--

---Luke on 8/22/14

in Himself one new man from the two, .>ONE NEW MAN is the NEW Creature not Israel or Gntile, but "THE CHURCH". And we see Paul clearly refers to the NEW MAN as the CHURCH. This IS the Mystery spoken in Colossians 1:24-27...24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God,

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints....
---kathr453 on 8/22/14


kathr44538/22/14 is a good point.

Paul mentions dispensation four times not dispensationalism. Three times they speak of what GOD has given to him. 1Co 9:17, Eph 3:2,
Col 1:25

...according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you,...

But the Old and New Covenant are where we get the names of the Bible for a testament is a covenant.

Your last point agrees with Covenant theology. Which states that the New Covenant is for all people but is a continuation of what GOD has been doing.


Hebrews 8:8

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Ephesians2
---Samuelbb7 on 8/22/14


Michael e,
Not all Israel is Israel. why? Because there is an "Israel after the flesh" 1 Cor. 10:18 who do not believe in the Messiah,////


So common sense tells us Israel AFTER THE FLESH are not Gentiles. no where are Gentiles ever referenced as ISRAEL AFTER THE FLESH.

In Isaac will thy seed be called. Israel after the FLESH are the physical descendants of JACOB.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/14


//"Israel after the flesh"/
can trace their lineage back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.(historical Israel)
It's faithful Israel(Israel of God, the remnant)) that receives the promises, not all Israel. (Deut 10:16)
Historical Israel has always been larger than faithful Israel. (1 Kings 19:18 Neh 1:3 Isa 10:22)
God calls only a remnant of Israel to live as the promised nation in the kingdom (Joel 2:32). The rest are consumed.
When Jesus came to Israel, only a small group received him (John 1:11-12). "little flock" Luke 12:32
When Peter preached at Pentecost to the multitude of Israel thousands believed,(Israel of God) but not all Israel.
The body of Christ doesn't have 12 tribes.
---michael_e on 8/22/14


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God has not divorced Israel. They may have turned from him but he has never turned from them.
---Bryan on 8/22/14


You and i are not Israel, but it clearly states that God divorced Israel.
---aka on 8/20/14

Yes we are Israel (God's choosen people that put faith in the Lord, not the nation as a whole) in that we are God's chosen and He is open to give us mercy. The method is different but grace is the same. Jeremiah 3.1 states the grounds for divorce and that God is justified in divorce but read Jer. 3:12-14. God will not be mocked by pride and rebellion but will always be ready to receive if we humble ourselves.
---Scott1 on 8/22/14


Dispensations: well, between the OT and NT is in fact a dispensation. Between Adam and Moses is in fact a dispensation. so NO it was not INVENTED in the 20th century by Darby.

Paul speaks several times about the Dispensations.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/14


//Many who believe we are spiritual Israel, teach Israel was an allegory for todays church. However, the teaching of a separate spiritual Israel isn't found in the Bible.//

Michael e,
Not all Israel is Israel. why? Because there is an "Israel after the flesh" 1 Cor. 10:18 who do not believe in the Messiah,

and, an "Israel of God" Gal. 6:16 made up of Jewish and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah.
Paul said,
"For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation..to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross" Eph. 2:11-16.
---Luke on 8/22/14


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Keep in mind, Jesus said in (Matthew 19:9) divorce is acceptable when adultery has been committed.

Wasn't Israel guilty of worshipping other Gods?
---David on 8/22/14


When God reveals information that changes the prophetic context we need to place a division in scripture. The new information. This is dispensational change.
Paul calls the information he received from the Lord a dispensation (Col 1:25). According to Pauls teaching, God is dealing with different people, through a different apostle, in a different way,
The church, which is the body of Christ, composed of Jew and Gentile does not have twelve tribes.
when the Bible talks about twelve tribes, it's not talking about the church of one body (Rom 12:5, Eph 4:4).
Those tribes came from the twelve sons of Jacob (Gen 49:28).
---michael_e on 8/20/14


God never divorced Israel.
---Scott1 on 8/20/14

i read hosea. you read Jer_3:1 & 8, Isa_50:1.

//but he never divorces us//

You and i are not Israel, but it clearly states that God divorced Israel.
---aka on 8/20/14


//did God unjustly divorce Israel?//

God never divorced Israel. They and us test his patience and he lets consquences come when we choose to go against him but he never divorces us. Read the book of Hosea, it is a real life parable of Hosea being a typology of God and us being Gomer. note the events in the book take approx. 10 to 15 years.
---Scott1 on 8/20/14


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Dispensationalism which was invented by John Darby came about in the 20th century.

It has no basis in scripture. We have the Covenants made by GOD with Man and we are in the New Covenant. Ephesians says gentiles are now part of Israel. The image of branches being broken off for gentiles to be grafted in is also given. Romans 11.

The parable of the false workers in Matthew 21 tells that the church is the one who inherits from those who killed the son.

But any Jew can become a Messianic follower of JESUS.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/14


Spiritual Israel concept ?

Revelation 21,2 And I John saw the Holy city new Jerusalem coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband,

Wikipedia - According to biblical tradition King David established the city as the capital of the United Kingdom of Israel and his son -------- >


( Both Jew and Gentiles are Gods Bride - and Jerusalem is the capital of Israel : Would not this tie this all together )
---RichardC on 8/19/14


The spiritual Israel concept is created from failure to understand the dispensational shift from Gods dealing with Israel to the boC. Many who believe we are spiritual Israel, teach Israel was an allegory for todays church. However, the teaching of a separate spiritual Israel isn't found in the Bible.
Paul says there is neither Jew nor Greek today in Christ (Gal 3:28).
Instead of becoming part of Israel, Paul announces a NEW creature, the boC. Ephes 2:15
The saved today, become members of the boC
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17
To say the saved become part of Israel denies the purpose God separated Israel from the nations
---michael_e on 8/17/14


//No GOD did not divorce Israel.//

Jer_3:1 & 8, Isa_50:1

//Since all those who follow GOD are now Israel//

Rev 3:9...Israel is a geographic location. Jews are those (despite there location) that have ties to the twelve tribes of promise and that Jesus is the Christ.

Rom 9:6-8
children of God are from Isaac, the seed of promise of God,

children of the flesh are from Ishmael, the seed of the manipulation of Abraham and Sarah

believers not God's children are grafted in. Rom 9:18
---aka on 8/17/14


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No GOD did not divorce Israel. Since all those who follow GOD are now Israel.


Rom 9:6-8
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

See also Ephesians 2.
Romans 11:16-19

All who follow CHRIST JESUS are now grafted into Israel.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/14


Nah. See it as not a divorce but a temporary separation...
---Press_On on 8/15/14

i see it as it is written.

if God divorced Israel and God hates divorce as interpreted by some, why won't anybody address the cruelty of God's divorce?

Could it be that that is another misuse of Malachi (like tithing)?
---aka on 8/16/14


"For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. (Malachi 2:16, NLT)

the whole verse now...from NLT

For I hate divorce! says the Lord, the God of Israel. To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty, says the Lord of Heavens Armies. So guard your heart, do not be unfaithful to your wife.

Leon, So God overwhelmed Israel with cruely?
---aka on 8/15/14


Where does scripture say "God hates divorce?"
The law was that once a man divorces his wife he could not remarry her!
God never remarried Israel."
---1stcliff on 8/15/14



"For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart, do not be unfaithful to your wife." (Malachi 2:16, NLT)
---Leon on 8/15/14


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Nah. See it as not a divorce but a temporary separation. Our God is not only a loving God but a just and righteous one as well.

Sometimes He had to leave Israel to its own devices (and us too, as He sees fit, to teach us lessons).
---Press_On on 8/15/14


Where does scripture say "God hates divorce?"
The law was that once a man divorces his wife he could not remarry her!
God never remarried Israel.
---1stcliff on 8/15/14


mark_eaton,

quoting mal 2:16...some versions seems to say one thing and the others say another.

if we use your version, God is guilty by His own words. He covered his own garments with violence.

please do not tell me that God can do anything he wants. My God is not a God of love and violence towards others and only wants love from me.
---aka on 8/15/14


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