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Leaders Over Nations

What does the Bible teach us about how those who are appointed to be leaders over nations should perform? What should our Christian responsibility be to our appointed/elected "secular" leaders?

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 ---Leon on 8/29/14
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won't say too much about immigration. but, finally our president will become a legal citizen through amnesty.
---aka on 11/21/14

LOL...but, then quickly back to reality.

Illegally legal, but never an heir.
Ecc 10:6 Folly is set in great dignity, and the rich sit in low place.
Ecc_10:5 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, as an error which proceedeth from the ruler:

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
---Trav on 11/21/14


won't say too much about immigration. but, finally our president will become a legal citizen through amnesty.
---aka on 11/21/14


God guides the steps of those who follow him. Satan, the god of this world, guides the steps of those who are non-christian. There is not enough righteous christians in the United Stated to ask God to guide the president the way he should go. Would you obey the president's executive order to bow down to his statue? Worse yet, would you obey the president's executive order to take the Mark of the Beast?

As for God allowing christians and jews to be killed, we must remember that this life is temporary and will either be taken at the first resurrection or will be judge from the Book of Life according to our works at the second resurrection.
---Steveng on 11/19/14


First learned "ask".-Trav
Ask
Seek
Knock

four reasons for family being lost:
1 not being properly prepared
2 product of circumstance
3 willful disobedience, run away
4 want a different way

1. foolish
2. children (relationship not age)
3. gentiles
4. Pharisees, Sadducee, etc.

jesus comes for all. some can't/won't hear, some goats, some foolish...many called, 2. chosen...take one (2), leave the other (1, 3, 4)

as long as i searched, only found young children. when god called it, i did not have replacement in mind, but he did.

also, just think how it would feel to prepare a wedding and feast and no family showed except a dude wearing inappropriate duds.god knows what to do.
---aka on 11/19/14


Scripture is a tough read. ..reality.
it
---aka on 11/18/14

Yes, for me because of what I had to unlearn to learn.
First learned "ask".
Mat_7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Luk_24:44-45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
---Trav on 11/19/14




//Aka...this may be one I missed to me?//

no. I think it was another four letter name that doesn't accept that jesus' earthly sojourn was very specific.

Scripture is a tough read. ..reality.

it
---aka on 11/18/14


Get over it, Dawg, ...(Jer_50:6 & Psa_119:176).

... e.g. HOUSE of Centurion, woman with blood related issues (blood ... get it?)...
---aka on 9/19/14

Aka...this may be one I missed to me?
What is missing in some healing accounts listed. The words, "go and sin no more, or teaching kingdom of GOD. (their great faith granted healing)
Israel was under Sin laws and judged by...is seen also here, a beautiful confirmation of truth fulfilling in scripture by both sides in witness stories.
If you come here where I live, looking for your lost/children/wife ...will mine substitute? Nah...You want yours only...but, you would be righteous, good to mine.
(In the same reality...some wouldn't be)
---Trav on 11/17/14


Dan.2 v 21, to Fulfill Bible prophesy with the nations leaders.
---Lawrence on 11/13/14


Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Get over it, Dawg, He did not say that He will only SAVE the lost sheep. He is saying that he has come TO EARTH for the sheep who believe (hear) to be retaught. (Jer_50:6 & Psa_119:176).

It is clear from Scripture that he will save based on faith in Him...even if you are a dog. e.g. HOUSE of Centurion, woman with blood related issues (blood ... get it?), woman (whose daughter is like many of the girls of today)...

for the old covenant to the new, it is a blood issue for the lost sheep and a Blood issue for those sheep that hear and dogs that can sit when commanded.
---aka on 9/19/14


learner 2 - people with insults

What I find very disturbing is people using the word of God , to take a shot at a person , instead of using the word at a point of discussion, And they don't seem to be trouble with that ?
---RichardC on 9/19/14




Learner2, it is indeed interesting and it is also very sad. I have bitten back a few times and have reached the conclusion that to do so is a great joy to the offending person. I now find that just 'not responding' is the best 'response'. No-one can argue with oneself for very long before it becomes very boring and unfulfilling !!
---Rita_H on 9/19/14


//Ha, even if zero, you still are way ahead Nana. It would be funny, if it were not so incredible. At least he has found the O.T.....even if he doesn't believe it. Some eat camels fur and all.//

Trav,
now you are upset because I question your old Testament answers. So you throw stones at me. Thinking that God is in favor of what you do. Go ahead and show your true fruits. Your angry because I question your believe that Jesus only came to save the Jews. He might have come only for the Jews, but He died for all who have faith in Him. And that includes every race and nation. Just because Israel is not saved, you get angry with me and take sides. I am not responsible for the lack of faith on the Jewish nation. They are at fault, not me.
---Luke on 9/19/14


It is interesting how people here respond to other people with insults, and then are surprised that the people they have insulted don't wish to listen to their advice.
---learner2 on 9/18/14


Nana,
Your understanding Concerning the God of the Bible is, is zero.
Let me help you to understand who it is ....
---Luke on 9/18/14

Ha, even if zero, you still are way ahead Nana. It would be funny, if it were not so incredible. At least he has found the O.T.....even if he doesn't believe it. Some eat camels fur and all.

Mat_23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
---Trav on 9/18/14


Nana,
Your understanding Concerning the God of the Bible is, is zero. Let me help you to understand who it is who gives the ears to hear, the eyes to see, and the heart to perceive,
"Now Moses called all Israel and said to them: "You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all His land--the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders. "Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day" (Deut. 29:2-4). They were spiritually blind, and spiritually deaf. It's simple, it is God who gives not only life, but eyes to see and ears to hear, and a heart to perceive.
---Luke on 9/18/14


Nana - Paul disagrees with RichardC --????????????????

The disagreement your having here is not with me, It's the word of God your your disagreement with ! All I did was put verses down that Coincide with conversion going on,

And understand with there heart,

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put with in you : and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and give you an heart of flesh,
Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my spirit in you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them,
---RichardC on 9/17/14


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1 Corinthians 5:9_13 "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters, for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Paul disagrees with RichardC. (1 John 3:7 too)
---Nana on 9/17/14


Here is a more recent verse for you Luke:

Matthew 13:15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Paul repeats the same in Acts 28:25_28).

This insensitivity of the heart, dullness of hearing and blindness were brought on by the people themselves. Same as those in Matthew 23:37, they "would not".
---Nana on 9/17/14


Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one,
Romans 3:11 - There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God,
---RichardC on 9/17/14


When people speak against the Sovereignty of God, they should follow this passage,

" "Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long."

It is God who gives the sight, and ears to hear and a heart to perceive or He can do the opposite.
"And He said, Go and tell the people, Keep on hearing, but do not understand, Keep on seeing, but do not perceive. Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, And shut their eyes, lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, And return and be healed" (Is. 6:9,10)

"For it is God who is in control of all things"
---Luke on 9/17/14


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"Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long."

Judges 8:33_35 "And it came to pass, as soon as Gideon was dead, that the children of Israel turned again, and went a whoring after Baalim, and made Baal-berith their god. And the children of Israel remembered not the LORD their God, who had delivered them out of the hands of all their enemies on every side:
Neither shewed they kindness to the house of Jerubbaal, namely, Gideon, according to all the goodness which he had shewed unto Israel."

God, "is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
Should have God cemented Abimelech's reign and rewarded him kindly?
---Nana on 9/15/14


Dear Richard,
Thank you for your explanations that support the Sovereignty of God. People do not know the God of the Bible. If they had studied all there is concerning God, they would not even think of writing against Him. He says,
He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35). He also tells us:
"There are many devices in a man's heart, nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand" (Prov. 19:21). Also:
"Known unto to God are all His works from the beginning" (Acts 15:18). Yet we are told that the carnal mind is at enmity against God.
---Luke on 9/16/14


Genesis 50:20 - But as for you, ye thought evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring to pass , as it is this day, to save much people alive,

Judges 9:23 - Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem: and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
---RichardC on 9/13/14


1 Samuel 15: 22_23 "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."

God is not the choir director of rebellion and stubbornness.
---Nana on 9/13/14


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God is in Charge of it all - Lawrence Get's It !

Isaiah 46:9 -Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else, I am God, and there is none like me,

Isaiah 46:10 - Declaring the end from the Beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying , My counsel shall stand, and I will do all of my pleasure,
---RichardC on 9/12/14


Dan. 2 v 21. God puts man on the thrones & takes them off to Fulfill Bible prophesy.
Things happen that we don't like, cant help it. God Is in charge of it All.
---Lawrence on 9/12/14


John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I believe we have the answer here in this verse. From the beginning surely means the beginning of Adam and Eve until today.
---kathr4453 on 9/12/14


//Luke, did God plan and implement Abel's murder?//

The murder of Abel was in God's plan. God did not order his death, He allowed his death to happen. Since God gives life, He also takes it at His appointed time. Since He is God, He could have taken Cain's life away and stopped the murder. But He allowed it to happen. God was not surprise that Cain killed Abel, for God knows all things. The fact is that everyone dies when God commands it. How a person dies, He already knows. He is the restrainer of sin, He will restrain sin when He so choses to do so, or allow it to continue. He doesn't have to kill anyone, He allows sin to happen. The fact is that He will do away with sin when He is good and ready. That is the God of the Bible.
---Luke on 9/12/14


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James 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of god: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man :
---RichardC on 9/11/14


"Luke, did God plan and implement Abel's murder?"
Nana

Luke, you are not making your stance clear, could you answer the question with a Yes or a No?

Luke, did God plan and implement Abel's murder?
---Nana on 9/11/14


\\you hate me, you are willing to strip God of His Omnipotence, at the expense of your soul, ....You forget that by the will of God you can breath.
---Luke on 9/9/14
\\You have a hardened heart because you have the wrong God.
---Luke on 9/10/14
\\Men like you try to strip Deity of His Omnipotence if you could, it only proofs that "the carnal mind
---Luke on 9/11/14

The above were not to be but, where is agapeLuke? Are you related by family to katr by any chance?? Are you markv by any chance?? Tell the truth or confirm by not answering this post. Your mistakes in spelling and doctrine are a tell.

Pro_9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
---Trav on 9/11/14


//Luke, did God plan and implement Abel's murder?//
And you say, //According to you, he should have said, "God ordered it be so", right Luke?//

Nana, It was God who put the curse and called sin sin
It was God the Father who ordained that Christ would die for our sins, from before the foundation of the world.
It is God who kept Cain alive to kill Abel.
It is God who ordains all things.
It is God who created this plan and not another.
It is God who knows the end already
And nothing or nobody is going to change the plan of God. That is the God of the Bible.

Men like you try to strip Deity of His Omnipotence if you could, it only proofs that "the carnal mind is enmity against God"
---Luke on 9/11/14


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"Leon, Your theory doesn't hold water, for some 300 years Roman Emperors brutalized Christians ,who were hold up in the catacombs , killing them for sport in the arena. What kind of "object lesson" did this serve?
---1stcliff on 9/8/14


Cliff: Until you're willing to walk & stand in the light you won't be able to see the truth. From where you're standing (in darkness) the visibility of reality is nonexistent. Conversing with you is like trying to reason with a drunk ~ impossible.
---Leon on 9/10/14


"They have set up kings, but not by me, they have made princes, and I knew it not, of their silver and gold have they made them idols that they may be cut off."
---Nana on 9/8/14

Right on Nana. Scripture says all that needs to be said.

Dan_9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.
Psa 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psa 109:3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred, and fought against me without a cause.
---Trav on 9/10/14


"Nana,
because you hate me, you are willing to strip God of His Omnipotence, at the expense of your soul, because you have no fear of God."
Luke on 9/9/14
"Nana,
None of the passages you gave disproof the omnipotence of God."
Luke on 9/10/14

You made the case that I am trying to disprove God's Omnipotence, I have not.

Luke, did God plan and implement Abel's murder?

John says concerning Cain's motive, "And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."
According to you, he should have said, "God ordered it be so", right Luke?
---Nana on 9/10/14


Nana,
None of the passages you gave disproof the omnipotence of God. Every person you mention are like grasshoppers before God.
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. He brings the princes to nothing, He makes the judges of the earth useless (Isaiah 40:22,23).
Every step we take is directed by God.
"A mans heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps" (Prov. 16:9). You have a hardened heart because you have the wrong God.
---Luke on 9/10/14


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The smith and the waster are men (waster- the conquering king, such as Tiglath-Pileser, Sargon, Sennacherib, Nebuchadnezzar, or Cyrus).
Cain killed Abel on his own.

"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And why slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

The confused have God planning and ordering Abel's murder while rambling of God's omnipotence. (right Luke?)


Habakkuh 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."
God assures Habakkuk that the Babylonians will prevail not because of their righteousness, but because they were temporary instruments of judgment in His hands.
---Nana on 9/9/14


//Isaiah 54:15 "Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake."//

Nana,
because you hate me, you are willing to strip God of His Omnipotence, at the expense of your soul, because you have no fear of God. So you pick passages out of context just to stop the truth from going out. You forget that by the will of God you can breath. He can, if He will, take away that ability any time He wishes.
In Isaiah 54:15) you forgot to mention (v. 16).
"Behold, I have created the blacksmith who blows the coals in the fire, Who brings forth an instrument for his work, And I have created the spoiler to destroy." God is in control.
---Luke on 9/9/14


Leon, Your theory doesn't hold water, for some 300 years Roman Emperors brutalized Christians ,who were hold up in the catacombs , killing them for sport in the arena.
What kind of "object lesson" did this serve ?
---1stcliff on 9/8/14


"They have set up kings, but not by me, they have made princes, and I knew it not, of their silver and gold have they made them idols that they may be cut off."
---Nana on 9/8/14


Hosea 8:4 True Nana. What people in rebellion to God do is choose leaders (rulers, governors) they worship (idolize), in place of God, to lead them blindly to their destruction. Such rulers God has no thought of elevating to positions of leadership because of their hardheartedness. However, God will occasionally allow "the people's choice" to sit in authority over them so the ruling brute beast may abuse & beat the idolators with many strips (hardships) for their rebellion against God.
---Leon on 9/8/14


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Isaiah 54:15 "Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake."

Luke 17:1_3 "Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him, and if he repent, forgive him."

What would you say next, that God sets the offence himself?
---Nana on 9/8/14


Leon on 9/7/14 well said.
---Josef on 9/8/14


They have set up Kings - But not by me-

This seems to be a action that God letting happen ------ > They - Refer ------->

1 Kings 11:31 - And he said to Jeroboam, take thee ten pieces : For thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel Behold I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
---RichardC on 9/8/14


"They have set up kings, but not by me, they have made princes, and I knew it not, of their silver and gold have they made them idols that they may be cut off."
---Nana on 9/8/14


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1Cliff,
Christianity is not in trouble. God is in control of all things. In the end all those that God has chosen will be saved. If you remember Pharaoh, he was raised up by God to be Pharaoh for one reason. And because God had chosen him to that rank, nothing could happen to him in his life. Yet during that time, He killed many slaves. This was all in the plan of God.
"For the Scriptures says to the Pharaoh, "For this very reason I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth" (Rom. 9:17). This is done so that God can show His power, "Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens" (Rom. 9:18).
---Luke on 9/8/14


Hitler - Pol pot - Stalin

God could of gave them a massive heart attack any time he wanted ! Before they even came to Power !
---RichardC on 9/7/14


"Hitler. Pol Pot, Hirohito, Bin Laden & all the Islamic leaders were put in power by God??? No wonder Christianity [is] in trouble!..." [?]
---1stcliff on 9/7/14


Cliff: Those devils weren't God's choice. They were chosen by people in rebellion to God. You know the saying, "Be careful of what you ask for because you just may get it."

No one occupies positions of power unless God approves & appoints it (for example David) OR allows it as an object lesson (for example Saul) to punish rebellious people.

"For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another." Ps. 75:6-7 (KJV)
---Leon on 9/7/14


Hitler. Pol Pot, Hirohito, Bin Laden and all the Islamic leaders were put in power by God ???
No wonder Christianity's in trouble !
Get a life !!
---1stcliff on 9/7/14


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Leon,
God is the one that appoints leaders, and brings down those He wishes to bring down, for His master plan.
God is in control of all things, even the bad ones. Richard is correct in the passages he gave.
We are call to pray for all our leaders, that doesn't mean God will deal with them as we want. But we are commanded to pray for them anyways. Whatever God's will is we should do. Agape
---Luke on 9/5/14


There doesn't seem to be any specific guide for politicians' behavior in the New Testament. But my duty is, as Cluny said, to pray for political leaders. And I should not be a law breaker.
---learner2 on 9/2/14


Cliff your comments show you either don't understand the question or else you just want to stone it & me for personal reasons. Anyway, "appointed" monarchs, e.g., Peter the Great, Queens Victoria & Elizabeth..."elected", all the presidents of the U.S.
---Leon on 9/2/14


Cliff your comments show you either don't understand the question or else you just want to stone it & me for personal reasons. Anyway, "appointed" monarchs, e.g., Peter the Great, Queens Victoria & Elizabeth..."elected", all the presidents of the U.S.
---Leon on 9/2/14


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Leon, All I asked is that you name even one. Can you do so ?
---1stcliff on 9/2/14


Amen RichardC!!!
---Leon on 9/1/14


Gee Cliffie! Got ya shorts bunched up again, eh?!

"For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another." Psalm 75:6-7 (KJV)
---Leon on 8/30/14


Leon , Can you name one 19th or twentieth century national leader "appointed" by God ?
---1stcliff on 8/30/14


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Romans 13:1 - Let every soul be subject unto higher powers, for there is no power but God, the powers that be are ordained by God,

1 Peter 2:13 - Submit yourself to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: wether it be to the king' as supreme.
1 Peter 2:14 - Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well,
---RichardC on 8/30/14


Cliff: Chosen or elected by men, appointed (scheduled, destined) by God.
---Leon on 8/29/14


Some of our lower court judges are appointed, rather than elected.

The NT in several places commands us to pray for those in power--not that they will govern according to "Christian principles," but "that we may live a quiet live in all godliness and honesty"-- basically that they will let us alone.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/29/14


Leon, Who are the "appointed" ones,appointed by whom?
---1stcliff on 8/29/14


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