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Who Is God

In describing the Person of God, should the emphasis be more on Love, or Power, or should they apply equally?

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 ---Geraldine on 8/29/14
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Hi David,

All is well! I have been busy with the Hebrew language group (only the second outside of Israel) to share the good news (Matt 24:14) with Israelis, Jews and other Hebrew speaking individuals in our area.

Shalom aleichem achi! (Peace be upon you my brother).
---scott on 9/18/14


"No matter how carefully I explain it..." Warwick

Oh I understand your point quite clearly. It's just that it's false.

The "earlier reality" that you refer to is certainly not described in God's word and, to the contrary, Christian "Kings" (and Priests) at the right hand of Christ undermine your entire premise, rendering it untenable.
---scott on 9/5/14


Scott no matter how carefully I explain it you don't get it. The words Stephen used are imagery, a saying based upon the earlier reality of what being seated at the right hand of an earthly king meant. It became a saying which like "three sheets to the wind" did not mean there were three sheets or wind, but that the person so described was drunk. Stephen used a well known saying to mean He saw Jesus in heaven portrayed as God.

The problem with JW's is that you have been indoctrinated into a mechanistic anthropomorphic view of Scripture. When someone says there are 3 persons in the Godhead you imagine they mean 3 physical beings, but God is a person though an invisible Spiritual being e.g. 1 Timothy 1:17.
---Warwick on 9/5/14


'Ignatius of Antioch'- MarkEaton

Ignatius shows the distinction between God and his Son calling Almighty God 'the only true God, the unbegotten and unapproachable, the Lord of all, the Father and Begetter of the only-begotten Son'- The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 1, p.52.

Ignatius also shows that the Son was not eternal as a person but was created, for he has the Son saying: 'The Lord [Almighty God] created Me, the beginning of His ways'- ibid., p.108.

'Even Jesus enemies knew He claimed to be God'- Mark.

No, his enemies made the false claim that he was 'God' which Jesus defended himself against. Christians do not side with Christ's enemies in making the same false charge of equality with God.
---David8318 on 9/5/14


"Evading the point..." Warwick (2)

2. God's Word identifies faithful Christians as Priests and Kings.

Rev 5:10 "...made them...kings [basileus] and priests, and they shall reign..." DBY, KJV, YLT.

Other verses (Rev 20:6, Rev 5:10 and 2 Tim 2:12) refer to Christians as "reign[ing] [Gk. baselyuo] with him..." and 'sitting on thrones.' (Luke 22:30)

Contrary to Warwick's response, only kings "reign" "rule" or "sit on thrones" not priests.*

Since the Father (alone) has authority to place Christians at the "right hand of Christ" do they likewise become equal to Christ or God?

*Melchizedek was both Priest and King.
---scott on 9/5/14




Mark Eaton, **He called God His Father**
There are two persons spoken of in this sentence..now you contend that "they" are the same person..only the most gullible will swallow that nonsense !
But that's not the worst...somehow "they/He" become three.....yep, that's the way it is, you just have to believe it....'cause everybody does ! ("cause nobody wants to be called a heretic !)
---1stcliff on 9/5/14


We need proper definitions.

The Term Trinity is not another term for GOD. It is the Theological understanding that while there is only one GOD. He is three persons. The second term for this is GODhead.

This understanding was forced upon the church by seeking to understand how JESUS could be GOD yet on earth as a man at the same time.

As the church came to understand the HOLY SPIRIT and the terms used for him they added him as a third person.

Then many came up to oppose this view and come with different understanding some of which are still here today.

But the Bible as the final authority must be followed. It lays forth three person. Otherwise JESUS could not sit at the right hand of GOD.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/14


The false idea that Jesus is God came 100's of years after Stephen through pagan Roman Emperor Constantine...
---David8318 on 9/5/14

You are wrong.

Besides your denial of the Gospel of John declaring Jesus is the Word and the Word was God, Ignatius of Antioch declared Jesus was God no less than 5 times in his writings and Ignatius was martyred in 110 AD.

Even Jesus enemies knew He claimed to be God. He called God His Father thereby making himself equal with God. This is why the Sanhedrin wanted Jesus killed for blasphemy.

Your arguments only make sense if all of the New Testament is untrue.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/5/14


"Evading the point..." Warwick (1)

On 9/1/14 Warwick stated that "to sit at the king's right hand [means equality so]...Jesus is equal with God."

This is an amusing attempt to avert attention from the the obvious dilemma that Acts 7:55 creates for the trinitarian apologist. Simply put, why does Stephen describe Jesus "at the right hand of God" rather than as God himself?

Warwick's attempt at theological slight-of-hand is problematic for several reasons.

1. To begin with (and as a side point)...where oh where is the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, in Stephen's description of this heavenly scene? Right! I mean yes! Not there.
---scott on 9/5/14


'the position of power and equality'- Warwick

Warwick's understanding of this "equality" is based on his Neo-Platonic indoctrination: that someone of the same substance as another must be that person. Warwick like the Jews draw wrong conclusions of equality. Jesus defended himself against equality with God.

Stephen was not a trinitarian. The false idea that Jesus is God came 100's of years after Stephen through pagan Roman Emperor Constantine who formulated the false theology that Jesus is God. The false idea the holy spirit is 'God' came years after that!

In denying any involvement in Stephen's death despite the obvious scriptural evidence, Warwick defends those who put Jesus to death- the Sanhedrin (Acts 6:15).
---David8318 on 9/5/14




"Evading the point..." Warwick (3)

3. The three-in-one shell game.

The trinitarian God is made up of 3 persons. So when referring to "God" the Almighty, the term "trinity" and "God" should really be interchangeable.

No scripture ever refers to "one person" of God. (That language came centuries later).

In Stephen's vision aren't trinitarians actually saying that Christ was at the right hand of the Trinity...are there really four God/persons rather than three?

Trinitarian apologists need to shift from an argument about God (the three-in-one) to 'one person' of God (Jesus or the HS) when the inspired scriptures make no such distinction.
---scott on 9/5/14


'there is no evidence the Sanhedrin passed judgement'- Warwick

This is clearly a denial of the facts. Acts 6:15 clearly tells us Stephen was before the Sanhedrin while making his defence. Stephen makes his defence before the Sanhedrin in Acts 7:1-53.

Completing his defence "they" started grinding their teeth (7:54), when Stephen said Jesus was at God's right hand, "they" reacted violently and stoned Stephen (7:57,58).

"They", as Acts 6:15 tells us were the Sanhedrin.

As if blasphemy against 'Moses and God' were not enough, (albeit a false charge) to say Jesus whom the Sanhedrin had put to death was in fact alive caused the violent reaction of Stephen's stoning.
---David8318 on 9/5/14


Thank you David and Warwick great points.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/5/14


David no matter on what pretext Stephen was brought before the Sanhedrin his listeners anger erupted immediately he made this one comment "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at God's right hand."

You are wrong, there is no evidence the Sanhedrin passed judgement: this was mob violence, of those who knew Stephen was saying Jesus was standing, in heaven, at God's right hand, the position of power and equality.

This equality is mirrored in John 5:18 "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."

Both times the Jews understood the meaning-Jesus is God!
---Warwick on 9/5/14


You are wrong regarding Revelation 1:6 and you evade the point anyway.

In ancient Israel for one king to place another on his right-hand indicated equality and this is the meaning the mob took from what Stephen said (Acts 7:56) and they stoned him for this knowing he was making Jesus equal to God. And it would be blasphemy, punishable by death, if it were not true. This has nothing to do with kings all about equality. Therefore your comments upon Revelation are nothing evasive irrelevancy.

Matthew Henry does make a totally relevant statement: "He (Jesus) shall come, ... He is the Beginning and the End, all things are from him and for him, he is the Almighty, the same eternal and unchanged One."
---Warwick on 9/5/14


'Kai Theos in o logos'- Peter.

I would disagree Peter with your Greek rendering which should read:

'kai theos en ho logos', or literally,

'god was the word'.

Greek does not contain capitalized words. But because 'ho logos' has the definite article, we can capitalize 'the Word' because it is definite. Why have you capitalized 'Theos' in the Greek Peter? There is no def.article with 'theos'.

When you have a predicate anarthrous noun 'theos' occuring before the verb, the noun according to context describes 'ho logos' as 'a god'. It does not identify the logos as the God it is 'with'.
---David8318 on 9/5/14


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The stoning of Stephen does, however, bring up an interesting point that always bothered me. Under the law of Moses, those who commit capital crimes (adultery, blasphemy, etc.) are stoned to death. However the Roman Empire, in order to enforce its own sovreignty, reserved death sentences for itself. This is why the Pharisees had to bring Jesus to Pilate to ask for his execution, rather than doing it themselves.

So why did they have to do this with Jesus, yet they didn't bother with the woman taken in adultery (before), nor Stephen (after)?
---StrongAxe on 9/5/14


David8318
Those teaching which some disagree, seem to get an "ism" attached to them. Example, Polytheism.

Perhaps I would better understand the differences between the Trinity teaching, of which you disagree, and what you believe, if you can give me the "ism" people have attached to your belief.

Then I can Google it to gain a better understanding, and not waste your time explaining it to me.
---David on 9/5/14


scott,

misinformed...thank you for being so considerate....misguided...ok.here is your opportunity. So, inform me...guide me.

We have already addressed the trinity and hellfire many, many times. let's move on.

Perhaps you would like to present a short report on the shift from Russell's belief in pyriamidology denounced by Joseph F. Rutherford (the 2nd President of WTS) who took over after Russell as satanic.

you can use as many encyclopedias as you want.
---aka on 9/5/14


David8318 on 9/4/14 'The logos is described as 'a god'.'

Kai Theos in o logos

The term 'a god' is misquoting John - he said that 'God was the word'

The 'A' (indefinite article) is most certainly NOT what John was stating in John 1
---Peter on 9/4/14


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'they reacted and dragged Stephen out to be stoned'

You have to laugh at Warwick's attempt to paganize the Bible. No where in Acts 7 is Stephen equating Jesus with God. The Sanhedrin are stoning Stephen for reasons other than Warwick pre-supposes.

The Sanhedrin had Stephen up on false charges of blasphemy against 'Moses and God'- Acts 6:11. Also remember the Sanhedrin had not long been instrumental in putting Jesus to death- Jo.11:47,53. If blasphemy against Moses and God wasn't enough, the Sanhedrin now heard Stephen say Jesus was not only alive but at the right hand of God!

The Sanhedrin must have been frothing at the mouth, and the reason why they stoned him.
---David8318 on 9/4/14


Revelation 1:6-

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." King James Bible

"...and did make us kings and priests to his God and Father..." Young's Literal Translation

" And has made us kings and priests to God..." American King James Version

Matthew Henry Commentary: "Christ has made believers kings and priests..."

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary: "The saints shall constitute peculiarly a kingdom of God, and shall themselves be kings (Re 5:10)."
---scott on 9/4/14


"Misinformed" aka

I thought that "Misinformed" was a restrained and generous way to describe aka's completely false statements that "JWs are only able to speak what the WTS publishes"...having no "other resources...family/danger..." etc.

If he prefers I will adjust that to "misguided"...because I care.

And yes, I was a Baptist for most of my life but I'm happy to say that I am now one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
---scott on 9/4/14


I'm curious to know from those who have been around here for a long time, who wins the most arguments,, and what is actually accomplished?
---learner2 on 9/4/14


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Out comes Scott the attack dog with his WTS cunningly crafted pre-packaged supplied answers.

Scott true to form David misused Revelation 1:6 as though it says we are kings when it says we are priests. deception!

The same with 5:10 as per Aleph '"a priesthood" for priests. They who cast their crowns before the throne, do not call themselves kings in the sight of the great King (Re 4:10, 11), ..." They are priests of the one King of Kings, and Lord of Lords Jesus. Ditto for 20:6 priests.

2 Timothy 2:12 Jesus the King reigns supreme whereas the priests reign only because they are part of His Kingdom, and subject to Him.

Luke 22:30? Only one King there.
---Warwick on 9/4/14


Perhaps aka would like to present us...origins of the trinity doctrine. -scott on 9/4/14

perhaps you should know that i am not a trinitarian. after 5 years of posting especially in our first year you would know that if you even cared. i remember that, at the time, you were a baptist that loves to study with JWs. is that still true?



misinformed???

Perhaps scott would like to present a short report on the shift from Russell's belief in pyriamidology denounced by Joseph F. Rutherford (the 2nd President of WTS) who took over after Russell as satanic.

---aka on 9/4/14


"In reality we are...not kings at all." Warwick

Happy to oblige.

Rev 5:10 "...and made them to our God kings [basileus] and priests, and they shall reign over the earth.." DBY, KJV, NKJV, YLT.

Rev 20:6 "...they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign [Gk. baselyuo] with him for a thousand years." NIV

2 Tim 2:12 "if we endure, we will also reign with him, if we deny him, he also will deny us..."

Luke 22:30 "...that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. NIV
---scott on 9/4/14


\\Trust Cluny to want to hyjack the blog onto an off topic subject.

Cluny obviously cannot bring anything to the table for fear of causing more trinitarian confusion.
---David8318 on 9/4/14\\

Let's see.

Others mentioned the Jehovah's false Witnesses before I did--but **I** am hijacking the thread?

Who is it who turns every blog into an anti-trinitarian Oneness/Modalist pimp fest?

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/4/14


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"Ws are only able to speak what the WTS publishes." aka

This misinformation identifies aka as someone who knows little of Jehovah's Witnesses.

From my personal library I would recommend for his consideration these non-WTS publications (for this particular topic):

When Jesus Became God, R. Rubenstein, Divine Truth or Human Tradition?, P. Navas, Paganism in Christianity, Macmullen/Lane, One God - The Unfinished Reformation, R. Carden, Strong's, Vine's, Young's Analytical Concordance, Biblia Hebraica, etc.

Perhaps aka would like to present us with a book report on the first four non-WTS publications that identify the pagan, unscriptural origins of the trinity doctrine.
---scott on 9/4/14


What you believe aka is the logos is 'God', and also the logos was 'with God'. Thus, you have at least 2 God's in your pantheon. This is poloytheism.
---David8318 on 9/4/14

is this what i believe about the subject?

having one main God and many lesser gods is polytheism also.

so, the WTS version of God is also confused.
---aka on 9/4/14


'No, i am no trinitarian. i believe in triunity'- aka

Is there a difference? You all sound part of the same confusion.

The logos is described as 'a god', not that he is identified as a God as you suggest.

Other translators agree when they describe the logos as 'godlike' or 'divine'. The logos is not identified as 'the God' or 'a God' or any other God.

The logos is described as 'a god'.

What you believe aka is the logos is 'God', and also the logos was 'with God'. Thus, you have at least 2 God's in your pantheon. This is poloytheism.
---David8318 on 9/4/14


No no no Warwick. Christians have one God. Its you trinitarians that have 3 God's.
---David8318 on 9/4/14

actually, to the WTS, jesus among others are lesser gods: The great Jehovah is The God, The Son, -- the Logos, is A god. The name god is applied to mighty ones, even to angels and to magistrates. The name god is therefore properly applied to the Son because he is a mighty one...Jesus was not God the Son. (Deliverance, pages 106, 111, 113).

God is the supreme God and Jesus was A lesser god.

Sounds like a form of polytheism to me just like the trinity to a JW. (No, i am no trinitarian. i believe in triunity.)
---aka on 9/4/14


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No no no Warwick. Christians have one God. Its you trinitarians that have 3 God's.
---David8318 on 9/4/14


How does Jesus' consuming food prove a spiritual resurrection?
---Marc on 9/3/14

then, the next WTS attack is on the book of Luke, so to invalidate your argument.

the reason why I say WTS instead of JWs is because the JWs are only able to speak what the WTS publishes. The JWs do not have other resources and their family is in danger if one does look at other sources. Just ask Cliff1.

Debate WTSers if they identify themselves as WTS, but the JW families can only give us to what the WTS limits them. Some of them are born into it. They do not know any other side.
---aka on 9/4/14


David, you couldn't lie straight in bed. Just part of being a JW as Cluny points out.

One difficulty in debating JW's (other than dealing with their lying, and deceiving) is that in denying the personhood of the Holy Spirit they are necessarily limited to a mechanistic anthropomorphic understanding of Scripture. "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. as these things are spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14. As we can see they are indeed folly to David and Scott.

We see this evidenced in the JW nonsense of falsely claiming Christians have three Gods.
---Warwick on 9/4/14


Trust Cluny to want to hyjack the blog onto an off topic subject.

Cluny obviously cannot bring anything to the table for fear of causing more trinitarian confusion.
---David8318 on 9/4/14


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The married couple are separate individuals but are 'one' in purpose Just as Jehovah God and Jesus are separate individuals but 'one' in purpose. David8318

David8318
I thought I knew what a Trinitarian was, but after your answer, perhaps I don't.

If you believe Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three individuals working as one, how does this differ from what the Trinitarian believes?
---David on 9/4/14


Geraldine,

There is only one place God is defined as to his essence. In John's 1st epistle he writes that God is love. That is, the 'is' defines the ontology of who God is. No where in the Bible is God said to be (the noun) power but he is defined by the noun love.

As love eternally requires both the lover and loved in order for it to make sense of itself (i.e. love), the JWs fall short of having a proper theology as God from eternity could love nobody except himself. This is so similar to the pagan Aristotle. Thus, the JW theology is essentially a heathen one. The non-pagan Trinity solves this problem.
---Marc on 9/4/14


Revelation 1:6 is a reference to Exodus 19:6 "and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests" So in reality we are priests, not kings at all. Your own mistranslation says the same. Good try, but better luck next time.

In Mark 10:40 Jesus tells the two that these places of honour cannot be bestowed upon them, by Himself, as "These places belong to those for whom they have been (past tense) prepared" Mark 10:40. The NWT is in accord with this meaning!

You need to read Scripture for yourself and see what it actually says
---Warwick on 9/4/14


In 1972, the WATCHTOWER published an article, "They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them," which said that JfW's were prophets.

In 1986 in their book REASONING TOGETHER FROM THE SCRIPTURES, they said that JfW's were NOT prophets.

Question: When did the Watchtower Organization lie? In 72 or 86?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/3/14


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The JWs believe Jesus didn't resurrect physically but spiritually only. Of course, if true, then Jesus didn't defeat death because his mere non-physical resurrection demonstrates that human flesh was originally intended by God for corruption. Death in our bodies is then both natural and will stay. However, what does the Scriptures say?

""Handle me...for I have flesh and bones as spirits do not"...and Jesus took the fish and honeycomb and ate it [to prove he had flesh and bones]"(Luke 24:39,43)

Scott and David, do you actually believe a resurrected non-flesh body has the ability to chemically process food and the mouth injects saliva to aid this? How does Jesus' consuming food prove a spiritual resurrection?
---Marc on 9/3/14


David, you are a deceiver. Of the Trinity I wrote "Are they three separate physical beings, as the JW's say we believe. No because God is invisible Spirit." But as I have many times said (as you know) that Jesus had a physical resurrection and we will see Him, fully man and fully God.

You attempt misdirection. At the end of his defence Stephen said he saw Jesus in heaven standing at the right hand of God. At this specific statement they reacted and dragged Stephen out to be stoned, knowing Stephen was saying Jesus is God. This, they considered, was blasphemy, punishable by death. And if Jesus is not God, they were correct.
---Warwick on 9/3/14


Trinitarians Warwick and Marc appear to treat confusion as a science. Marc doesn't know whether Jesus was resurrected in the flesh or not while Warwick is unsure if Jesus was resurrected in the spirit... or is it the other way round?

How can the holy spirit be operative on these characters if they cannot agree among themselves about their own diety? It reveals the trinity is not inspired by the holy spirit but by men. The trinity is a man-made dogma creating confusion and contradiction among its indoctrinated followers.

I'm sure Warwick is busy trying dream up an explanation as to how he and Marc sharing the same beleif can have such polarised views.

'every house divided against itself will not stand'- Mt.12:25.
---David8318 on 9/3/14


'Though they become one, aren't they still two separate individuals?'- David.

Yes of course they are 2 seperate individuals. Why do you suppose they are not? They are 'one' in purpose just as Jesus and his Father are 'one' in purpose.

What point are you trying to prove by drawing on this scriptural illustration? Do you believe God is '3 in one', '2 in 1', or just 'one', or 'one' with Jesus just as a married couple are 'one' with eachother?

The married couple are seperate individuals but are 'one' in purpose Just as Jehovah God and Jesus are seperate individuals but 'one' in purpose- Jo.10:30.
---David8318 on 9/3/14


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Kings at the right hand of the king means equality? Warwick

The glaring difficulty with this line of reasoning is that Christians themselves are spoken of as becoming "Kings" at Rev 1:6 KJV. Further Jesus said "to sit on my right hand or on my left hand is not mine to give, but it is for them for whom it hath been prepared." Mark 10:40 ASV

Following Warwick's reasoning then, all Christian "Kings" are equal to God (or at the very least, equal to the Son of God) because they sit (or will eventually sit) at the "right hand" of Christ.

Additionally, if equal, why can Christ not grant this grand privilege?
---scott on 9/3/14


Warwick, I'm not taking sides but your deduction is wrong,
Blasphemy against the Father and Son are forgivable but not against Holy Spirit, cannot forgive as "He" is not a person.
Not "one" person !if 2/3s is forgivable ! !
---1stcliff on 9/3/14


'theocracy' doesn't appear either- Marc.

I din't say it did!

Marc has a prediliction for ignorance. You can see the ignorance and confusion among the trinitarians Marc and Warwick.

Marc believes Jesus had a 'physical resurrection' and yet trinitarian Warwick states 'Are they three separate physical beings, as the JW's say we believe. No because God is invisible Spirit'.

So which is it? Is Jesus God 'physical' as Marc beleievs, or is Jesus God 'Spirit' as Warwick beleieves. The incompetence and confusion which is rampant among trinitarians can be clearly seen.

The Bible is clear- Jesus was 'put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit'- 1Pe,3:18 (ASV).
---David8318 on 9/3/14


Well just dropped by to agree and say some great points.
Agape to all of you.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/3/14


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'Are they three separate physical beings, as the JW's say we believe. No because God is invisible Spirit'- Warwick.

Warwick is confusing me with Marc. It is Warwick's confused partner in crime Marc who believes Jesus is now 'physical'.

'the Jews knew He was equating Jesus with God, and stoned him for blasphemy'- Warwick.

Lies, lies, lies. There is nothing in Acts 7 which says Stephen was equating Jesus with God. This is Warwick's trinitarian lies and subterfuge.

Stephen was arrested and eventually stoned for the false charge of 'blasphemy against Moses and God'- Acts 6:11. When will trinitarians stop promoting scriptural lies!? Stephen was not equating Jesus with God.
---David8318 on 9/3/14


JW's are task-masters of deception. That the exact words are not in Scripture does not mean the meaning is not there. Christians have intelligence and the counsel of the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture. JW's have only human reasoning!

God is called Creator and Saviour as is Jesus therefore by deduction they are 1`and the same, as we do not have 2 Saviours and 2 Creators, but 1

Jesus says the Holy Spirit can be blasphemed and Scripturally speaking blasphemy, as per Leviticus 24:14-16, is an attack upon the very being of God. Therefore by deduction the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God. Are they three separate physical beings, as the JW's say we believe. No because God is invisible Spirit.
---Warwick on 9/3/14


I will explain carefully. In ancient times a visiting King being seated at the right hand of the local king meant the visiting king was considered equal to the local king. Now this became a saying used to denote equality. As used in latter days it was not necessarily used to comment upon seating arrangements but simply to denote equality. But maybe it was about the seating arrangements but it matters as either way it means Jesus in His risen body has been returned to the position of Glory and equality he had with His Father from all eternity John 17:5.

We also see Stephen using the same imagery and the Jews knew He was equating Jesus with God, and stoned him for blasphemy Acts 7:55-58.
---Warwick on 9/3/14


(Matthew 19:5 & 6)...a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh.

David8318
According to Jesus Christ, when a man and woman get married, they become one. Though they become one, aren't they still two separate individuals?
---David on 9/3/14


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Warwick :
// n ancient times in Israel if a visiting king was considered equal they were invited to sit at the king's right hand. The term therefore refers to equality, in this case that Jesus is equal with God,//

Thank you for sharing this with us non-Jews. It's good to know this.
---Adetunji on 9/2/14


David's belief that if a word doesn't appear in the Bible then the concept the word represents doesn't either is a great example of the JW predilection for irrationality. Pots and black kettles too: 'theocracy' doesn't appear either but does that stop those door-knockers proclaiming the Watchtower is God's own theocratic organisation on earth?

David likes to bludgeon us with his dilettantish knowledge of Plato. Of course, believing that Jesus only resurrected spiritually, and not physically as the Bible clearly records, is a sure indication that the JWs have swallowed the neo-Platonic (or Gnostic) worldview.
---Marc on 9/2/14


Monarchianism, as modalism was known in church history, became a fad in some quarters around the year A.D.260. It was promoted by Paul of Samosata, Bishop of Antioch. In recent years it has been revived by some Pentecostal groups in the United States.
---learner2 on 9/2/14


Warwick, By your reasoning,when a visiting king met the ruling monarch he was invited to sit at the right hand, indicating equality, then by some kind of magic they both became the same king???
That's what you said "equal there fore God"
---1stcliff on 9/2/14


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'Jesus and the Father are One, in their Divine nature... All Three Persons in unity are Divinely One God'- luke.

Its a shame at least for trinitarians that the Bible doesn't say any of the above.

The statement, 'in their Divine nature' is a give away. As usual, trinitarians from the days of the trinity's originator- Pagan Emperor Constantine- have explained their trinity dogma using Plato's Hellenic philosophy of nature and metaphysics- 'the logos is the same substance and nature as God, therefore he is God'. Using Neo-Platonic philosophy, luke (and trinitarians as a crowd) can say God is not 3 persons, but 3 in one.

However, Jesus died and was resurrected by his Father- then Jesus recieved the holy spirit- Acts 2:29-33.
---David8318 on 9/2/14


Leon, Jesus died, God is immortal....what's "dopey" about that??
Scripture says so, I believe the "dopey" ones are those that refuse to acknowledge it .

FYI it's impossible to be immortal and die ! !
---1stcliff on 9/2/14


equal
God is great (power) God is good (Love)

Bully taking lunch money analogy
God is good - God fights with you against bully but you both lose lunch money because you and him are weak
God is great - God is the bully and steals your lunch money
God is good and great - God fights for you against bully and wins the fight.

---Scott1 on 9/2/14


Who is God

The Mighty God Is Jesus The Prince of Peace Is He, The Everlasting Father The King eternaly, The Wonderful In Wisdom by whom All things were made, The Fullness of The Godhead In Jesus Is Displayed. Colo. 2 v 9.

Glory to God The Father which who Is
Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 9/2/14


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I would think that Love is primary. I don't think God would have created anything if He did not have Love.
---learner2 on 9/1/14


"...Praying this way in front of His followers would make the prayer a hoax leading them to believe there was a Father in heaven while He was standing in front of them, not to mention scripture says "No man has ever seen God"..hocus pocus !
Jesus died, God is immortal!"
---1stcliff on 8/30/14


Your reasoning (thinking) is dopey Cliff. You need to be rehabilitated/regenerated...
---Leon on 9/1/14


In ancient times in Israel if a visiting king was considered equal they were invited to sit at the king's right hand. The term therefore refers to equality, in this case that Jesus is equal with God, therefore God.
---Warwick on 9/1/14


1stcliff:
// If you're going to have three in this picture,then, the Holy Spirit would be sitting at the ...left hand??//
I think you have forgotten that God is above or superior in essence in comparison to you & I.
JER.23:24 "...Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord".
The way God has shown Himself in different similitudes to different prophets should give you an indication of HIS awamaridi (beyond finding out).
Just believe who & what He says He is, but to define Him explicitly with human words & drawing like we do in human science is impossible.
---Adetunji on 9/1/14


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An even bigger trick is ..how do you sit at your own right hand?
If you're going to have three in this picture,then, the Holy Spirit would be sitting at the ...left hand??

I'm glad i'm a monotheist! as per
Deut.6.4 .
---1stcliff on 9/1/14


Well said Luke.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/1/14


//If Jesus and the Father are one, then Jesus would also know the day and the hour Jesus' return. Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32,//

Jesus and the Father are One, in their Divine nature. As Persons, the Father is greater then the Son. The Son is submissive to the Father. The Son testifies of the Father, the Holy Spirit testifies of Christ. All three Persons working together. All Three Persons in unity are Divinely One God.
---Luke on 9/1/14


Geraldine
Many years ago a stray dog walked into my yard. It snarled it's teeth and would have bit me, if given the chance. Within a few weeks, that same dog was falling asleep on my lap, in the living room of my house.

How did this happen?
I simply showed the dog love, by providing him with what he needed. Through my display of love for him, the dog came to love me. And when the dog displayed his love for me, I came to love him.

God shows us his love for us in much the same way. And we will show our love for him, in much the same way as that stray dog did for me.

In other words, Love and power can not be separated, because Love is the power of God.

---David on 9/1/14


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Was Jesus a vantriloquist? Matthew 3:17

Where did Jesus get the power to do miracles? John 14:10 , John 5:30, John 8:28, John 5:30,

If Jesus and the Father are one, then Jesus would also know the day and the hour Jesus' return. Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32,

Did Jesus ascend to Himself? John.20:17

Does Jesus pray to himself and to whose will? Matthew 26:39-42, John 11:41-43,

When christians are one with the father... John 14:12

One God, three persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - all having the same spirit. As for the word "trinity", "a rose by any other name is still a rose."

Jesus will inherit all thing made by God, the Father. Revelation 21:7
---Steveng on 8/31/14


Deu 4:35,36 "To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD Himself is God, there is none other besides Him.
Out of heaven He let you hear His voice, that He might instruct you, on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words out of the midst of the fire."
Isa 42:8 "I am the LORD, that is My name, And My glory I will not give to another." See Jhn 17:5
Father is one, and is, in His essence, uncontainable, 2Ch 2:6 Jesus is His fulness bodily. Col 2:9 Yes Geraldine, His love and power should be emphasized equally. For Christ reveals His power and wisdom, and the atoning sacrifice of Jesus for the benefit of man, manifested His love.
---josef on 8/30/14


Those that say Jesus is the Father have to believe that when Jesus prayed to His Father that He was talking to Himself.
Praying this way in front of His followers would make the prayer a hoax leading them to believe there was a Father in heaven while He was standing in front of them, not to mention scripture says "No man has ever seen God"..hocus pocus !
Jesus died, God is immortal !
---1stcliff on 8/30/14


God The Father dwelt in the body of Jesus Christ. Colo. 2 v 9. Cluny

Glory t o God The Father which n who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 8/30/14


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God the Father does not have a body, Lawrence.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/30/14


Geraldine
God The Father dwelt in Jesus Christ bodily. Only 1 person. Colo. 2 v 9.

Glory to God The Father n which who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 8/30/14


Geraldine, You can believe Cluny who says God is three persons or believe God who says He is "one" Person Deut.6.4 !
Nowhere does scripture say God is three persons !
The pagans,especially Babylonians had gods of multiple personalities.
Brahma, Vishnu and Siva,Hindu . Or Isis Horus and Set Egyptian to mention a few !
---1stcliff on 8/29/14


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