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Christians Heal The Land

If 70% of the United States is christian ( FYI: down from 86%, 1990) then why doesn't the faith of all these Christians heal the land as promised in 2 Chronicles 7:14. Why can't the prayers of the majority heal the land?

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 ---Steveng on 9/7/14
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Adetunji, the covenant did not change, it was the way the scribes and pharisees were teaching it that was making it of none effect. Jesus tried to correct them in Matt 15 but they were offended in Him and He called them the blind leading the blind. Matt 15:12-14.

"Thus you have made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition." Matt 15:6.
---barb on 9/15/14


// --- Jesus never ever said that His death would in any way change the covenant His Father made with Israel //
Isaiah 9:7 indicates that the Messiah concerning the kingdom shall "...order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice henceforth ..."
Does this not prophesy changes to how Judaism was practised in the BC era?
---Adetunji on 9/15/14


Sorry clunky there were NO 10 commandments when God make this Covenant to Abraham.

Gal 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Romans 4
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
---kathr4453 on 9/15/14


Sorry Cluny, my last post was not directed to you. My Apologies. And thank you for standing up for the truth.

Hebrews 13:20-21 say nothing about man keeping the 10 commandments, but how man is KEPT through the Promises of God where GOD gets all the Glory through Jesus Christ.

No flesh will glory in His presence!

And Romans 8:11-13 say...and if the Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead DWELL IN YOU putting to death the deeds of the flesh....NOT WASHING any outside flesh....

Our flesh is CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST not washed with water. KNOW the difference in these covenants please.
---kathr453 on 9/15/14


\\Kathr, the covenant is the ten commandments\\

Drink of this, all you. This is My Blood of the NEW COVENANT....

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/14




"And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake, but he who endures unto the end shall be saved". Matt 10:22.

"I have given them your word and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world". John 17:9-17.
---barb on 9/14/14

Great spiritual examples Barb/Nana. Ate of these scriptures you posted, Mmmmm.
Run across these below surfing off yours.

2Co 12:9 he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: ......

2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
---Trav on 9/15/14


Kathr, the covenant is the ten commandments. "And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perforn, even ten commandments, and He wrote them on two tables of stone". Duet 4:13.

Of course Jesus is the "I AM" who gave the ten commandments. "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made." John 1:1-5.
---barb on 9/15/14


--- Jesus never ever said that His death would in any way change the covenant His Father made with Israel.
---barb on 9/5/14

Sad observation how angry scripture makes some today. If multiple witnesses so much the worse. Very similar to Christ's day.

Sure glad about "New" location of those 600 laws.

Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, write them in their hearts: I will be to them a God, they shall be to me a people:
Heb_10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
---Trav on 9/15/14


\\barb,
that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross" (Eph. 2:11-16).
....you do not believe in the Holy Bible\\
---Luke on 9/13/14

What a thing to say. What if Barb is a "sheep". Do you not realize the penalty of your attacks??
Is fact that you do not understand the verse you're whip others with.
This verse describes the division between the Nth House of Ten and Judah/Benjamin. The prophets testify of it. The New Covenant Heb 8:8 declares it. Perhaps, you've not been told. So in ignorance of, you may be excused. Now that it has been pointed too, you'll have none.
Mar_9:42 whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him....
---Trav on 9/15/14


--- Jesus never ever said that His death would in any way change the covenant His Father made with Israel.
---barb on 9/5/14

What is also interesting with this statement, ....Barb, do you believe Jesus is God? Didn't Jesus say, " before Abraham was "I AM" ? So how can you be sure Jesus isn't. " I AM", who made that covenant WITH Israel the NATION?
---kathr4453 on 9/15/14




Stevens, Bible says: I2 Chronicles 7:14 says, IF my people, HUMBLE themselves,, PRAY and SEEK and turn from wicked ways, Then Will I Hear from heaven and forgive, and heal their land. ONLY if they do the above will God hear and act for us. 600 laws are Civil laws and it really is to guide us in right living, a Manual for us and for our living
---Jasper on 9/15/14


--- Jesus never ever said that His death would in any way change the covenant His Father made with Israel.
---barb on 9/5/14

The verses in 1st John are under the New Covenant, the one that came into effect when Jesus died and rose again. The Old Covenant God made exclusively with Israel has over 600 laws to keep.

Are you keeping ALL 600+ laws Barb? If not then you are a law breaker. If you break only one, you have broken ALL.

So on what authority do you have that you can choose which ones to keep, since no man on earth TODAY can keep all 600+.
---kathr4453 on 9/14/14


Thanks Nana, it's good to know you are there..

"And showing mercy unto thousands of them who love me and keep my commandments" Duet 5:9-10.

"Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faithfulness of Jesus". Rev 14:12.

"And this is the love of God that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not greivous." 2 John 5:1-5.

"And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake, but he who endures unto the end shall be saved". Matt 10:22.

"I have given them your word and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world". John 17:9-17.

---barb on 9/14/14


"Nana, to deny the importance of Jesus death and resurrection,..."
No one is denying His death and resurrection, it is the power of God.
---Nana on 9/14/14


Nana, to deny the importance of Jesus death and resurrection, making the verse you posted possible to obey, or even 2nd Peter chapter 1 possible to understand and obey , also seeing Peter said we were BOUGHT with the precious blood of Jesus ...Barb butchers truth without Paul in the picture at all. No where in 2Peter 1 is the LAW mentioned to assure entry into the Kingdom. It's ALL about faith in His promises, being partakers of His divine nature that only Comes through Jesus death and resurrection called GRACE. When Jesus came WITH Grace and Truth, He came for the purpose of dying on a cross, shedding his own blood and rising again. Even John the Baptist said...BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.
---kathr4453 on 9/14/14


I like barb and does not bother me her views of Paul and his writtings. It bothers me more all the butchering of Paul's writtings by "La loca".
Peter did mentioned such happening.
2 Peter 3:16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

barb agrees with this: 2 Peter 3:14 "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."
Good enough for me.
---Nana on 9/13/14


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Luke, and yes your verses in Ephesians IS what John 17:22-26 is talking about... To be ONE. I in them and thou in me....

Also Colossians 3:1-4 puts it this way too, "Hidden With Christ In God" , and when Christ WHO IS OUR LIFE SHALL APPEAR, THEN WE SHALL APPEAR WITH HIM IN GLORY. John 17 is Jesus prayer of this very thing.

So it appears Barb only picks and chooses only certain things Jesus said.

Those whom God has Justified He has also Glorified.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/14


//Luke, I don't see where Jesus used the words "one new man" or even "one new sheep". He said there would be sheep coming in thru the door and that they would be one flock. His flock.//

barb,
The word of God tells us,
"For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation..to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross" (Eph. 2:11-16).
But of course you do not believe in the Holy Bible, so my answer has no effect on you, but it will Christians who want to learn from the Word of God.
---Luke on 9/13/14


Jesus said this too.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them, that they may be one, even as we are one 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
---kathr4453 on 9/12/14


Scripture says we are Justified by His Blood and saved by His Life. That is, His resurrection life. So If one had died with Christ and is raised up a New Creature IN CHRIST, the question is, can the New Creature die again and again, being born again over and over? I don't believe so. We become Sons of God the moment we are Born Again in Christ, so the question again is, does God abort His own son? I think not. Your children may be naughty and may even turn away in rebellion for a while, BUT if they are bone of your bone and flesh of your flesh they are LEGALLY your's. Nothing they do can change that. Jesus is the "SURETY" of the New Covenant. Just see what the word SURETY means and you will be blessed. It's also used in the OT.
---kathr4453 on 9/12/14


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Samuel, I believe Justification is the cleansing of the outward part, repentance and water baptism. Matt 3:1-6. Justification begins the Sanctification process.

I also believe that we can willingly lose our eternal lives by rejecting the Truth/Word of God that sanctiifies us. John 17:17-21.
---barb on 9/12/14


We seem to agree that Sanctification is indeed an ongoing process.

Justification occurs when we come to JESUS and made brand new as if we never sinned.

The problem is are we once saved always saved or can we choose to be lost.

My understanding is that we can choose to reject JESUS and be lost. We are not forced to go to heaven against our will.

We aren't saved by works or lost by works. They show our heart condition.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/12/14


--Jesus came to His lost sheep, Israel. Was there ever any doubt in their minds that they were to keep God's commandments? If they understood one thing it was that the keeping of the commandments was of the utmost importance to God. Most of Jesus' teaching to them was on the correct way to keep His commandments, see Matt 15, Matt 23. Jesus never ever said that His death would in any way change the covenant His Father made with Israel. The Kingdom was taken away from them because they rejected their Messiah (John 19:15) but the covenant still stands and those who want to enter into His Kingdom will have to keep His rules.

-----
---barb on 9/5/14

Barb, His death in fact did change the Covenant.
---kathr4453 on 9/12/14


--- Jesus never ever said that His death would in any way change the covenant His Father made with Israel.
---barb on 9/5/14

Barb, one day I hope you read and pray about Hebrews 10. If they are still under the Covenant The Father made with Israel before His death, they still must sacrifice bulls and goats to cover sin. No wonder you dont believe in forgiveness of sin. So once a year your sins are atoned for? Are YOU doing this? He took AWAY the first to establish the second. Many unbelieving Jews today still practice the first covenant God made with Israel. Oh they may not sacrifice little lambs, but they are still under the First.


LUKE...2 Corinthians 3 is not in Barb belief.
---kathr453 on 9/12/14


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Seems to me that He begin with One flock, the Jews who believed in Christ, .....
---Luke on 9/12/14

Will point this out for any researching. Judah / Benjamin flocks were not put away. The Nth House flock of ten was...divorced flock. The largest flock. Christ did not fail, the flock was and is found.
Matt 10:6 / 15:24.

As written by your namesake. Am fine with Christ's assessment when it applies. There is still division in the " two House Flocks", but it will be fixed.
Luk_12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay, but rather division:
1Ch_16:17 hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel an everlasting covenant,
---Trav on 9/12/14


Luke, I don't see where Jesus used the words "one new man" or even "one new sheep". He said there would be sheep coming in thru the door and that they would be one flock. His flock.

The flock is united as one because they recognize and hear the voice of the good shepherd (not the voice of the stranger who they flee from) and therefore they have the same knowledge of Truth and the same doctrine tuaght by Him.
---barb on 9/12/14


"...As the Father, knows Me, even so I know the Father, and I lay down My life for the sheep. "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice, and there will be one flock and One Shepherd" (John 10:15,16).
Seems to me that He begin with One flock, the Jews who believed in Christ, but at the cross the curtain came down and the Gentiles believers were included and they became one flock, one new man."
---Luke on 9/12/14


Absolutely Luke! It's NOT ALL ABOUT THE JEWS even though God has certainly used them as a template/pattern for the world to follow. IT'S ABOUT ALL OF US having a way of salvation made available thru Jesus Christ ~ John 3:14-17.
---Leon on 9/12/14


//Kathr, I never said that I was a descendent of Jacob. Jesus taught that there would be one flock. One flock means one flock. There is only one way into the sheepfold, not two//

barb,
" As the Father, knows Me, even so I know the Father, and I lay down My life for the sheep. "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice, and there will be one flock and One Shepherd" (John 10:15,16).
Seems to me that He begin with One flock, the Jews who believed in Christ, but at the cross the curtain came down and the Gentiles believers were included and they became one flock, one new man.
---Luke on 9/12/14


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Barb, Yes Salvation is an ongoing process of growing up into the fullness and stature of Jesus Christ. BUT "Justification" is a one time event, that never needs repeating to save one over and over. It's our sanctification that is that ongoing process.

But then again we are sanctified once and for all "through the Body of Christ" and not our good works or law keeping.

NOW He is able to KEEP all that I have committed unto Him until that day. I have totally surrendered my life to God through Jesus Christ who now is my Life. OH what REST there is in entering in, through the veil, that is to say His Flesh. Jesus said so in John 6....
---kathr4453 on 9/11/14


Kathr, I see, your doctrine comes from Paul.

According to Jesus salvation is an ongoing process of learning, obeying, enduring and overcoming. He said "But he who endures unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:4-14. Also read what Jesus says to the churches in Rev 2 and 3 about those who overcome and those who don't. And please notice that Jesus does NOT say that it has all been done for the churches thru grace. His message is the same as when He was on earth "Therefore, whoever hears these words of mine and DOES them is like a wise man who built his house upon a rock." Matt 7:21-27.
---barb on 9/11/14


kathr,

i encourage you to always stick with "the rest of the story" without any personal attacks or defenses.

any scripture that is pointed out, with your verse knowledge and how it relates to Jesus Christ (your shepherd and my owner). watch carefully the use of ellipses and skipped verses.

forget about markv and ALL of our tendencies to go after a dissenting word. As thick as you make your skin, someone will always pierce it, it the Blood that flows that matters.

Paul is not saying that we use our own wits for the defense of the gospel. the defense of the gospels is self=contained.

just use the fruit of the spirit, keep cool, and let It flow.
---aka on 9/11/14


//sound and tracks of dust falling from my sandals on the matter.// trav

copy that.

kosher or pig parts with mustard and onions...it does not matter to me. even the crumbs are most satisfying.
---aka on 9/11/14


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our work here on earth is not to be right ...---aka on 9/9/14

Believe it is most important get "it" right though- trav

as right as we can, then rest in his righteousness. nobody can serve a perfect meal, but the father. we just make it complete as we can.
---aka on 9/10/14

.....................sound and tracks of dust falling from my sandals on the matter. Franks for dessert.

Psa_105:10 Confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:
Mal_2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
---Trav on 9/11/14


Barb, original WHAT in Romans 11? Ans: Original of the physical descendants of Jacob. But it's according to the election of GRACE. WOW, that was the verse that set me free.
I knew what happened to me was not LAW, or LAW keeping, but something far more wonderful more awesome than the LAW could ever bring. GRACE. Which is THE CROSS....Galatians 2:20-21. I am crucified with Christ.....I do NOT make void the GRACE of God, for if Righteousness comes by keeping the law, Christ died in vain. Only those saved by GRACE can understand this.

And as Romans 11 state, it is no longer works, because if it's still works, then it's not grace. And if it's GRACE then it is not works.

Grace is Philippians 3, the whole chapter.
---kathr4453 on 9/11/14


Barb, After I was saved many like Trav and yourself wanted to isolate me as being under some other covenant or just plain crazy stuff and not a Born Again believer in the Body of Christ alone. The Lord spent a lot of time with me showing me my bearings as a Born Again Jew, who was now not a Jew at all, but a NEW creature in Christ. How Jesus death and resurrection tore down that wall between Jews and Gentiles making ONE NEW MAN. That I am saved by GRACE through FAITH ALONE, HAVING died to the LAW, and died to sin when I was crucified with Christ and raised up with Him a New Creature. Romans 6-8. I am a true remnant Romans 11, You are not. The definition of remnant is what's left remaining of the original. Original what in Romans 11?
---kathr453 on 9/10/14


Barb, rev 12 was prophesied in the OT as the rebirth of ISRAEL the nation during the great tribulation period. So since we are not there yet, you can't possibly be one of them.

And what if you die before then, what will become of any hope you have of actively being one of her children?

I suggest TODAY is the day of salvation, where we are Born of GOD not born of a woman. God Barb IS NOT A WOMAN. And neither is the Holy Spirit.

Don't put your hope in a day you may never see, the rebirth of a NATION. Put your hope and faith in the rebirth of YOU a person.
---kathr4453 on 9/10/14


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I use only His Words and the words of His eyewitness disciples, therefore it would be the doctrine of Jesus that is not your flavor. So I have to ask, where does your flavor of doctrine come from?
---barb on 9/10/14

She gets on one of these rolls every couple of years or so. Markv, never thought I'd miss him. He satisfied her need for a fight daily,all day long.
She does make opportunity's to search and prove to oneself multiple scriptural witness. It appears to be her work.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
---Trav on 9/10/14


our work here on earth is not to be right ...---aka on 9/9/14

Believe it is most important get "it" right though- trav

as right as we can, then rest in his righteousness. nobody can serve a perfect meal, but the father. we just make it complete as we can.
---aka on 9/10/14


Kathr, I never said that I was a descendent of Jacob. Jesus taught that there would be one flock. One flock means one flock. There is only one way into the sheepfold, not two. All Nations, Jews etc. included, who enter will be keeping the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. If you believe that Israel is the woman in Rev. 12 then why can't you see that the way in is the same way given to Israel, (verse 17) however after His resurrection it also includes holding to the testimony (doctrines) of Jesus which brings us back again to Rev. 12 and the remnant born of the Holy Spirit. See Matt 1:18-20, John 3:3-5.

So where does your flavor of doctrine come from? You never answered me.
---barb on 9/10/14


Barb, I'm not referring to you as that woman. But am interested in your saying you must be born of the woman in Revelation 12. Did Jesus say this before the cross or after? And Rev 12, the Woman is ISRAEL, and the 12 stars are all 12 tribes of Israel.

Now prove you are a true physical descendent of Jacob aka Israel. Or do you also You think you are a descendent of Ephraim too? Was Ephraim one of Jacob's 12 sons? Joseph son correct. Joseph who married an Egyptian? So You have Negro blood in you? Egypt is a Greek word meaning Black.

The Egyptians of the Bible were Negroid. The Bible says Egyptians and Ethiopians are descendants of Ham. Nothing wrong with that. To claim ALL Gentiles are descendants of Joseph and Ham is far fetched.
---kathr4453 on 9/10/14


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The New Testament never says that Gentile believers are of the ten northern tribes, AKA: Ephraimites? If Paul was the apostle to the Ephraimites, why didn't he say so? He said he was an apostle of Gentiles (Rom 11:13. Rom 15:16, 1 Timothy, 2:7)

Gentile Believers in Christ are beloved of God and do not need to invent, imagine or make up a false Jewish/Hebrew/Israel lineage to be saved. For God so Loved the WORLD, every tribe, tongue nation ALL FAMILIES of the earth. Rahab a Canaanite, Ruth a Moabites, Job, Noah and so many more were Gentiles who were saved prior to the cross and prior to the formation of any northern kingdom called Ephraim.

Any doctrine that excludes is a CULT!
---kathr4453 on 9/10/14


AKA, Trav teaching is from a controversial, unaccepted off shoot of Messianic Jews who believe the "2 House" doctrine, that the lost 10 tribes are actually gentiles. Our beliefs are as far as night is from day, and this is what Trav argues with everyone here, unless you have not paid attention.

I'm not concerned with anything else but Christ Crucified, and the Gospel to ALL SINNERS. If Trav is going to keep butting heads with me I will butt back. I did not approach Trav online here, he approached me and insulted me by not accepting his controversial "TWO HOUSE" nonsense he has been posting for years. It's not the Gospel but ANOTHER GOSPEL. It's not personal warfare here, but a spiritual warfare.
---kathr4453 on 9/10/14


trav, it has been a blast despite many head-butts with you. see you at the bbq.
---aka on 9/9/14

Ha. Head butting is practice for Rams....haven't figured out if we are sheep or goats yet. Ha.
In the big picture GOD does what he wants with who he wants. This was a first freedom for me.
I'm at his mercy, I'm good with it. I mean...what good does it do if I'm not? I stopped trying to make scripture fit my desire or logic or pet doctrine.....and went with GOD's. He'll sort us out...and we'll be OK with it. Baaaa,naaaa,rufff. Give me one of those frank/steaks ova there will ya. Thanks! Mmmmm.
Rom_14:20 For meat destroy not the work.....
---Trav on 9/10/14


//as he has others here, and your personal opinion is slightly skewed.//

when i first started posting here, trav used to rip me apart. then, through his postings, yours, char, chria, michael e, and a few others like elena, i started to get what God was saying...and not necessarily what trav, you, or any others were saying.

trav also has ripped me apart for criticizing those who knew less despite their crazy slant. i don't agree with everything trav says, but the spirit has made me see some things that he said just as you.

trav has admitted many times that when confronted by heavy hitters who present themselves as teachers that he can fight biblical mma style from his limited standpoint. we all are limited.
---aka on 9/10/14


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Kathr, said "but if a woman teaches your flavor of doctrine you praise them." If you are referring to me as that woman, I have to tell you that no doctrine other than the doctrine of Jesus Christ comes out of my mouth or from my typing fingers. I use only His Words and the words of His eyewitness disciples, therefore it would be the doctrine of Jesus that is not your flavor. So I have to ask, where does your flavor of doctrine come from?
---barb on 9/10/14


But if a woman teaches your flavor of doctrine you praise them.
So tell us Trav, without quoting again scripture .....
---kathr4453 on 9/9/14

Scripture has offended you. By my hand, sorry you are offended.
The women found honorable here do not change/corrupt scripture. Barb,Char and others "search" and reflect. They do not "preach" or "teach" that their doctrine is the "only" way....as you attempt.
Char....knows Hebrew. She can and does show and teach Hebrew witness.
Gospel is truth and Good News. Scripture is the greater witness. Will try to provide scripture witness, even if you can't grasp it.
Luk_19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
---Trav on 9/10/14


//Aka, often there is nothing wrong with the delivery... //

reception is another hurdle to communication...i agree. this is a very difficult forum.

//I see nothing wrong with anything I have said, //

you post some great scripture, and i appreciate that so much, but it is impossible to see the chives on our teeth unless we have a not dark mirror or someone else points it out. no matter how they say it, we must let the spirit control the response.

//nor have I out and out insulted Trav or anyone here like he has.//

please, with all do respect to one of jesus' sheep, this dog sees that that is not always true.

//Perhaps Trav has not insulted you...please let me finish. i am limited to one post per update.
---aka on 9/10/14


Trav AGAIN misdirects scripture. Your legalism Trav is again astounding. Since I am not married, and thank goodness you are not my husband or head, I submit to the only Head there is Jesus Christ.

When a woman who knows scripture and confronts you you get really testy. But if a woman teaches your flavor of doctrine you praise them.

You think because you are a MAN you teach truth? Just remember false teachers and false prophets we are warned against were probably all men.

So tell us Trav, without quoting again scripture that does not apply to us, what is YOUR belief of the Gospel?

It can be very simply stated. Before anyone takes you seriously, show us what you believe the Gospel is!
---kathr4453 on 9/9/14


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Aka, often there is nothing wrong with the delivery, but the problem is with the one receiving. I see nothing wrong with anything I have said, nor have I out and out insulted Trav or anyone here like he has.

Perhaps Trav has not insulted you as he has others here, and your personal opinion is slightly skewed.

Not everyone is going to LIKE what we say, and that I or others can't worry about. If the Gospel is an offenses to some, and they will say and do anything to shut you up, it's the message, not the messenger. I defer to Him alone.

Paul also preached the Gospel with MUCH CONTENTION. THEREFORE I feel I am in OK company with that. God is my judge, and knows my heart.
---kathr453 on 9/9/14


Thank you both for responding. your response is as expected from my experience and noted by Our Lord.

if barb has rejected Paul know that, at one time, i did also. however, the Lord put me on my own road to Damascus where the thieves left me for dead...taking it all and the Lord then lit my way. as the path became brighter, i struggled to stay focused on the light instead of the thieves.

kathr, as much as you think you know, the message means little when you have little control of the delivery. this site has enough butt-heads.

trav, it has been a blast despite many head-butts with you. see you at the bbq.
---aka on 9/9/14


AKA, Barb nor I invited Trav to butt in to our conversation carried over from another post about truth taught AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Barb rejects. Trav was a day late and a dollar short of even knowing what we were talking about, but used this opportunity to insult me out of the blue, quoting his one hit wonder about "Go only the the lost sheep of Israel" (which was not even the conversation to begin with) then saying OH YEA I see, Barb does not believe in Romans. A "smart person" would have bowed out right then and there. Oh but NO, Trav felt the need to insult me again. Just because this is an open forum Trav, does not necessarily mean YOU have the right to butt in and INSULT and slander and LIE.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/14


our work here on earth is not to be right .....
---aka on 9/9/14

As a searching brother....appreciate and consider your thoughts and input on anything, anytime.

Believe it is most important get "it" right though. Having wondered and wandered my first 40 years, faith and freedom in truth are necessary. These are unmovable. One is not found without the other. Darkness/dimness cannot exist in truth/light.
Teaching things that are not so warrants scriptural rebuke. Gently if possible.
1Pe_3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Ti_2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
---Trav on 9/9/14


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kathr and trav, please stop. through the power of the Spirit both of you have opened my eyes to scripture that i may have never seen. we all see through a glass...more dark for some than others.

barb and others including this mutt are searching. help others with your knowledge of scripture as ambassadors of the good news.

our work here on earth is not to be right but rest in the Father's Righteousness

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: to 3:25.

Whether a sheep or dog, read it and weep.
---aka on 9/9/14


And she said, Truth, Lord: -Trav
now the rest of the story! Mat 15:27-28 "yet the dogs eat of the ....
You see, Jesus was here SPECIFICALLY for the lost sheep of ISRAEL and to fulfill the promises to Israel from His Father. But, look what God can do if you keep barking on Him.
---aka on 9/9/14

Thanks AKA. Exactly why....if a dog, intend to be the best "Sheep-dog" ever. Let me herd sheep, here or ova there....let me nip their heels if they stray. Yet also will lay down my ruff life in defense and search of.

Side note: Best sheepdogs are raised with sheep from puppies. As far as they are concerned they are sheep & family....with a duty. Sheep comfortable with attitude and fang and claw to back it up.
---Trav on 9/9/14


Trav, misapplying scripture again! We are not in church here, but an open forum.
Trav, you did tell Barb the cross was not important.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/14

1. Open forum, so much the worse. May our Lord deal with it.
2. Which also record's you a slanderer and false witness.
Barb, is assisted and protected, in her "honest" search, by a far greater teacher.
Have a prayer in your regard, would that all here would.
Skin this one below pill-grim , an I'll bring you another.
Isa_62:2 The Goy shall see thy righteousness, all kings thy glory: thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
---Trav on 9/9/14


God may have..... or God may not have called the US
---Peter on 9/8/14

Like Christ it is only found by sign or mark. Who is a Sheep? Only found by the marks.
Are "Christians" known by sign? Individually, collectively? Historically?

Names. Isa_63:19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them, they were not called by thy name.
Isa_65:15 ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
Isa_45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa_47:4 As for our redeemer, LORD of hosts is his name, Holy One of Israel.
---Trav on 9/9/14


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And she said, Truth, Lord: -Trav
now the rest of the story! Mat 15:27-28 "yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table... Jesus answered...woman, great is thy faith...And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

You see, Jesus was here SPECIFICALLY for the lost sheep of ISRAEL and to fulfill the promises to Israel from His Father. But, look what God can do if you keep barking on Him.

lost sheep first...but this lost puppy hope's to be Jesus' lapdog one day.

lost dogs, [not sheep] ask Jesus to heal your family...worked for this lady, the bleeding lady, and the Centurion. Sheep, hear your Savior's voice, keep feeding us your scraps and let us roam on your healed land that is to come.
---aka on 9/9/14


\\God may have..... or God may not have called the US
---Peter on 9/8/14\\

But not by His name.

On the other hand, does the name Isra-EL suggest anything to you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/9/14


Cluny on 9/8/14: 'The United States of America has NEVER been called by God's name.'

Are you sure? Most Christians are not in a position to be sure of whom God has called.

God may have..... or God may not have called the US
---Peter on 9/8/14


Trav, misapplying scripture again! We are not in church here, but an open forum. Get it right please. No one said that other nations cannot call upon the Lord. Get that right too. That is not what is being discussed here.

Michael_e yes, not all scripture is addressed to the Church. The prayers of the majority cannot heal the land, because we as true believers are crucified to the world and the World to us. In the last days perilous times will come, no matter what Trav or Steveng believe. Things are going to get worse., not better. The Lord already told us this, WARNING US that Those who mind earthly things are enemies of the CROSS. And Trav, you did tell Barb the cross was not important. We're not to listen to false prophets either.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/14


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Why can't the prayers of the majority heal the land?
---Steveng on 9/7/14

Well, do we actually pray for our country or do we pray that God would change our country to be what we want?

We are told in 1 John that if we ask anything according to God's will, he hears us, and we will have the petitions we ask of Him.

But, do we know the God's will for the United States?

I have heard it is God's will for the US to diminish in world power so that the Islamic world can attack Israel.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/8/14


Trav, what a silly answer. ....
no one earthly gentile nation is placed above another in blessings.
Can Christians in China also pray this?
---kathr4453 on 9/8/14

Well, yes would expect it to be to U. Weight of your non scriptural opinion?? U do not adhere or honor the simpliest command in scripture?
1Ti_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
One of Israel in China yes.
Chinese can call on Israels GOD.
Mat 15:22 behold, a woman of Canaan ..
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word.
Mat 15:24 But he answered, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: ..
---Trav on 9/8/14


Proper application of scripture requires us to determine if we fit in the audience of the passage. There are parts of the Bible that are not addressed to us.
Reading these sections is like reading someone elses mail. ....
michael_e on 9/8/14

Liked your wording on this. It's true. Not understanding who the Bible was written by, and too is first step confusion. Scripture identifies, variance is confusion-ville.
The Old & New Covenant is plain an fulfilling. Jer 31:31-33/Heb 8:8-10. Matt 10:6/Matt 15:24 is purpose stated.
Has the world been blessed by Christ fulfillment? Yes.
And so scripture is fulfilling around us.
Men plan men's ministries...but, GOD's they misunderstand.
---Trav on 9/8/14


Because Steveng that promise was to the Nation of Israel, not America. God never gave anyone LAND but Israel.
---kathr4453 on 9/7/14


Ha. Exactly.
It is better that it is denied.....yet at the same time amazingly by GOD's hand verified.
Even stated unwittingly a truth is still a truth.

2Ch 6:25 Then hear thou from the heavens, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest to them and to their fathers.

Isa_14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
---Trav on 9/8/14


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The United States of America has NEVER been called by God's name.

Doesn't the worldly denominational Church of Steveng teach you that?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/14


Trav, what a silly answer. Firstly Christians are scattered all over this world hiden with God IN CHRIST and heaven is where our citizenship is, and for that reason, no one earthly gentile nation is placed above another in blessings. God never made any covenant with a gentile nation period. these are blessings according to a THEOCRACY not a democracy or any other type of government.

Can Christians in China also pray this? The hand full can totally overthrow the Chinese government.....NO. This MENTALITY is called Dominion Theology....a false doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/14


Proper application of scripture requires us to determine if we fit in the audience of the passage. There are parts of the Bible that are not addressed to us.
Reading these sections is like reading someone elses mail. We can learn things about God and his purpose for people in that context but not about his purpose directed to us.

Jesus told his disciples at one time Go not into the way of the Gentiles (Mat 10:6). If Christians tried to apply this to their lives they would be catching the first flight to Jerusalem!
It would be wise not to apply these words to your ministerial plans.
---michael_e on 9/8/14


If 70% of the United States is christian ....... Why can't the prayers of the majority heal the land?
---Steveng on 9/7/14

You are visualizing Christians as one collective entity.
Christians can't agree on the Bible or even a version..... Never collectively pray. Never unified or united. Christians are scattered. And scatter brained. Christians are led in every direction but the truth by every flavor of wagging head denomination.
Christians do not ask the only teacher, our Lord.
They didn't ask or vote the last election. They mostly think GOD placed the perversity himself. They ALLOWED/desired the Obomi-nation.
Most blessed nation in the history of the world....and the blessings are fading.
---Trav on 9/8/14


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Thank you Kathr, you are so right.
Why would anyone pick a passage and then say that passage pertains to America is not very smart. But you are right. Of course God can heal any land if He so wants, but 2 Chronicles is not speaking of this land or any ones land but Israel. Thanks Agape
---Luke on 9/8/14


Michael_e, also you will see in many churches a framed picture of Jesus holding the American flag with that verse in a beautiful font next to this visual. Wow, talk about blasphemy.

BUT these are the churches who believe we are the New Jerusalem and God's NEW chosen people. And this is why they claim this verse. The true Christian is the BODY OF CHRIST, and is not evil or wicked in the first place. I see this as actually cursing the Body of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/14


Because Steveng that promise was to the Nation of Israel, not America. God never gave anyone LAND but Israel.
---kathr4453 on 9/7/14


2 Chronicles 5-7 is the consecration of Solomons temple to God.
The summit of the ceremony was Solomons prayer of consecration to God over the temple and his people (2 Chron 6:1-42). In response God poured out fire devouring sacrifices (2 Chron 7:1-2). God later appeared to the King of Israel in a night vision to affirm the covenants of promise made with Israel.

Not long ago people in Indiana placed signs quoting 2 Chron 7:14 Gods covenant terms with Israel.
They want Israels covenant promises for America, but not covenant curses. The problem that makes this impossible is God was not talking to Hoosiers or anyone else in the past millennia when he a gave this covenant promise about forgiveness and land healing to Israel
---michael_e on 9/7/14


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Does it seem to you that the verse, written 2500 years ago to the Israelites, would apply to the United States today?
---learner2 on 9/7/14


In God's timing, not ours Steveng.
---Leon on 9/7/14


Steving, Explain "Heal the land "
---1stcliff on 9/7/14


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