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Is Jesus God

Is Jesus God?

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 ---1stcliff on 9/9/14
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Hi David,

All is well! I have been busy with the Hebrew language group (only the second outside of Israel) to share the good news (Matt 24:14) with Israelis, Jews and other Hebrew speaking individuals in our area.

Shalom aleichem achi! (Peace be upon you my brother).
---scott on 9/18/14


Hi scott. Great to hear from you. Hope you had a good summer.

I attended the "Keep Seeking First Gods Kingdom" International Convention in Washington D.C.- Redskins FedEx Stadium. 60,000 in attendance from many parts of the world. Such an awsome experience meeting brothers and sisters from different parts of the world. Wow, what a wonderful Christian brotherhood we have!

Warm Christian love to you and your family.
---David8318 on 9/14/14


'should not be grouped together'- strongaxe.

There is no difference between what you refer to as trinitarians and pentecostals. They all have a confused unscriptural variation of the same pagan trinity deity. Even aka has his own bizarre confused belief called 'triunity' which he cannot support scripturally.

But I don't believe for one minute that all the people ensnared in pagan trinity religions signed up because of the trinity! Millions are on the trinity books because they had no choice! And it is a fact that over the last 10-20 years trinity churches have been hemorrhaging people in their millions, no doubt because of yhe hypocrisy rampant in trinity churches.
---David8318 on 9/14/14


"Admission..." Marc

1. I made no such admission.

2. More importantly, what scriptural evidence supports the notion that the larger/largest crowd with a shared theological view indicates acceptability by God?

What of the millions of 1st century Jews who rejected the Messiah and a handful of faithful disciples that followed him?

"God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." 1 Cor 1:27
---scott on 9/13/14


David8318:

There are trinitarians (who form the majority of Christians) who believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate but equal. There are the Oneness groups (like Apostolic Pentecostals) who believe in a tighter divinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one and the same. Then there are groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses who believe the Father is God, but the Son is not. The last two groups are miles apart, and should not be grouped together.
---StrongAxe on 9/13/14




Scott,

Your admission JWs only have a few million worldwide is a straighforward admission (i) God's a failed communicator (ii) the spiritual hubris JWs have by implying they're the most elitist, select club the world has ever known.

Know what Scott, the Lord Jesus preached against people like you, the elitism that infects in-groups, the we-only mentality. We all pray for your true freedom, Scott.

To the others, Scott and David can give no evidence that they right now have eternal life. All these 2 can give is a 'maybe' or a 'we don't know but keep on door knocking'. Ask any JW you meet and Jesus' death and resurrection can't guarantee our eternal salvation. All they have is works and more works....
---Marc on 9/13/14


'trinitarian denominations'- strongaxe

The majority of trinitarian denominations are unable to logically explain the trinity or scripturally support it (as demonstarted here) so they resort to infant baptism.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a splinter group of any religion. Christendom however has splintered into differing trinity cults- from the RCC you have the splinter movements such as the protestant and orthodox churches (or should I say 'un-orthodox') who both chaff at the Pope and both have split into many trinity camps with differing views of the trinity.

JW's are not the only Christian monotheist religion. JW's are currently 8million strong with 20million annual attendances.
---David8318 on 9/13/14


"Maybe...David and Scott, would like to explain how..." Marc

Happy to oblige (for what my 2 shekels are worth on the subject)...but right after he addresses the nagging trinitarian dilemma posted on 9/10/14:

Since the God/Abraham, God/Jacob, etc., relationships are straight-forward and unhindered by the shroud of mystery...

...why, using the exact same biblical language, does Jesus having someone that he refers to as "his God" not follow the same pattern of reason?

Does the Almighty God have a God?

Marc certainly didn't attempt to address this but rather presented a red-herring to change the subject.
---scott on 9/13/14


aka, My argument is not based on WBTS beliefs.
There are some similarities,but then all Christian denominations share some similarities !
My belief is based on logic and reason.
Belief in the trinity does not make you Catholic even though this is their central doctrine ! Please don't lump me in with them (WT) as I despise them, they decimated my family !
---1stcliff on 9/13/14


Adetunji:

You said: Some of them believe prophecy & God's communication with men have ceased because of some verses in 1 Cor.13. IF you asked when it ceased, they have no answer.

From what I understand, their official teaching is progressive revelation - i.e. over time, God reveals to their elders the "true meanings" of various scriptures, and new ways of understanding them. For example, they taught that Jesus would return in 1914. when that didn't happen, God "revealed" to them that his return was invisible, etc. They keep setting dates, and when the dates don't happen, God "reveals" to them a different date.
---StrongAxe on 9/13/14




Aka: Thanks. I have realised that the JW people need more of our prayers than argument. It is the power of God that can break through all the ungodly doctrines they are holding tight onto. Some of them believe prophecy & God's communication with men have ceased because of some verses in 1 Cor.13. IF you asked when it ceased, they have no answer.
---Adetunji on 9/13/14


The spirit of controversy is not a godly spirit.
---Adetunji on 9/12/14

i totally understand what you are staying. other than one question that i did think twice about including because i knew what the result would be, i just state my beliefs.

i went round and round with them before about doctrine...there is no good fruit. however, to state what i believe is not controversial.

thank you for reminding me not to get sucked back in. it's too dark for me.
---aka on 9/12/14


'triunity another form trinitariansim when it is not'- aka

How is it not the same? Even aka can't tell the difference. There is no difference as aka stated previously, aka's triunity is a '3 in one' philosophy which is the main stay in every pagan trinity dogma and which aka cannot support scripturally.

I can scripturally support my beliefs without any problem. I'm interested where aka gets "triunity" from- where is this in the Bible and where does aka get "3 beings in one Godhead or Kingdom" from? Bible chapter and verse!

Yes JW's have a tract entitled 'What the Bible Teaches'. Its designed to warn people off the likes of aka's false teachings which are no where in scripture.
---David8318 on 9/13/14


Trinity is a descriptive word of the three persons of God. Father,Son, Spirit.
Mat 28:19.
As the Sun, has Heat, Light, Power.
Time, has Past,Present,Future. Space has Length, Breath, Height and the Matter has Solids,Liquids,gases.
---Jasper on 9/13/14


aka, You did not fill in the blank, you answered with a different tune !
You said "When the Godhead (plural) has a Son" .. Deut.6.4 does not say the Godhead plural !
Who coined the word "Godhead"?
God is not "corperate"
---1stcliff on 9/13/14


//As I anticipated. Aka is unable to show one scripture that teaches his brand of trinitarianism://

As i anticipated, david8 will continue to call triunity another form trinitariansim when it is not.

As i anticipated, neither david8 nor i can show our stance explicitly. the bible is a book of revelation. "what the bible really says" is a tract that the WTS puts out. if you are a non jw, you can probably read them yourself. for both readings, i would suggest a good bible dictionary/concordance not published by the WTS. English only bible can be misleading.

//when aka is forced into a corner, he buckles and runs from the issue.//

might be true if i was a jw that could only read what the wts allows
---aka on 9/12/14


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Both John and Paul declare that everything (not all "other" things as the JWs like to add to Holy Scripture)was made by Jesus. The JWs have an angel, a creature, creating the cosmos. The Watchtower theology is a revival of the ancient heresy of Gnosticism. If Jesus is a creature created by God to create the universe then we have 2 Creators and the JWs are pushing polytheism. Maybe the Johnny-come-lately Watchtower reps, David and Scott, would like to explain how 2 Creators (The Father and an angel) isn't really equal to 2. I won't hold my breath though.
---marc on 9/12/14


Aka: I think you should refrain from those who have a totally different Bible in comparison to yours. With different Bibles, references are not the same, argument will only be unnecessarily continuous. The spirit of controversy is not a godly spirit.
---Adetunji on 9/12/14


David8318:

If the falsehood of trinitarianism was so obviously provable from the Bible, why is it, then, that the majority of Christians worldwide belong to trinitarian denominations, and only splinter groups (like Jehovah's Witnesses, for example) rail strongly against it?
---StrongAxe on 9/12/14


'the Word... "a god"- aka.

Deuteronomy 32:39 and John 1:1 are speaking of completely different matters. Deut.32 speaks of false gods who stand in oposition to the Almighty God, as verses 37 & 38 show.

The Word being 'a god' (Jo.1:1) unlike the false gods of Deut.32 does not stand in oposition to the Almighty God nor is he a rival.

The phrase rendered 'the Word was a god', the term 'god' is a predicate noun that describes the Word rather than identify his person.

The Word is rightly described as a 'god' as are God's other angelic sons at Ps.8:5 (KJV- 'elohim': "angels"). But neither stand in oposition to Almighty God as do the false gods at Deut.32.
---David8318 on 9/12/14


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When animals [plural] have young they are "animals:
When humans [plural] have young they are "humans"
You finish this sentence,please...
When God [singular] has a Son he's a .....?
---1stcliff on 9/12/14

my pleasure, but we have to make the comparison fair...

When animals [plural] have young, they are part of the animal kingdom.
When humans [plural] have young, they are part of the human kingdom.
When the Godhead [plural] has a Son, he's a part of the Godhead...or the Heavenly Kingdom.

It's not rocket science.
---aka on 9/12/14


'Michael the Archangel'- aka.

As I anticipated. Aka is unable to show one scripture that teaches his brand of trinitarianism: '3 beings in one Godhead or Kingdom' or as aka prefers to call it, a "triunity".

Rather than use God's gift the Bible to unravel his triunity dogma, aka again resorts to diversionary tactics to aviod the issue. Time and again as on other blogs, when aka is forced into a corner, he buckles and runs from the issue.

I'm happy to discuss the archangel Michael when aka shows me where his triunity dogma, '3 beings in one Godhead or Kingdom' is explicitly taught.

One issue at a time aka.
---David8318 on 9/12/14


Strongaxe - Is no direct proof of Jesus divinity

I do know this - If you read down on this blog, you will find many verses I have put down that link Father and Son as One, Sometimes I put down verses that correlates to the conversation at hand,

There are many people name Emmanuel: Yes this is true, But how many of a virgin birth ? I can only think of One,
---RichardC on 9/12/14


1stcliff:

If God is our father, does that make us gods too? That would follow from your most recent message (and, if so, it would make the serpent's lie in Eden true).
---StrongAxe on 9/12/14


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aka, It's not really rocket science..IE When a bird has young they are "birds"
When animals have young they are "animals:
When humans have young they are "humans"
You finish this sentence,please...When God has a Son he's a .....?
---1stcliff on 9/12/14


RichardC:

You said: Matthew 1:23 - Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, They shall call him his name Emmanuel, Which being interpreted is, God with us, ( KJV )

The name, it self, is no direct proof of Jesus's divinity. There are many people named Emmanuel, Immanuel, Manuel, etc. who aren't God. The name is a statement "God is with us" - not a claim "The God who is with us is I", any more than Elijah, which means "My God is Jah" claims "My God Jah is I".
---StrongAxe on 9/12/14


Matthew 1:23 - Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, They shall call him his name Emmanuel, Which being interpreted is, God with us, ( KJV )
---RichardC on 9/12/14


like a family...father, mother, and child. in order to maintain the integrity of the one family, all three have to act in unity.
---aka on 9/11/14

Wisdom.

Tri-unity.

Job_28:20 Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Psa_51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa_90:12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.
---Trav on 9/12/14


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//I challenge you to show me where this is explicitly taught in scripture.// david8

i challenge you to show me explicitly where it says Michael the Archangel is the Christ.

the bible is a gift revelation to be unraveled.

Nevertheless, The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was a god". How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god" if God says in

Deut 32:39, Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god [little g] WITH me:
---aka on 9/12/14


'Part of the Godhead dying is a mystery that is amazing'- Therese 9/9/14.

'I used the word mystery... not to describe something we cant know something about and believe'- Therese 9/11/14.

Perhaps now you can explain how Jesus is also the God who resurrected him?
---David8318 on 9/12/14


JESUS said He would raise himself up.

John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Only GOD is our Savior and Jesus is our Savior.

Isa 45:15
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

JESUS is the Creator.

Isa 40:28
Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Read Colossians 1:1-16
---Samuelbb7 on 9/12/14


Cliff,

You're adding words to Scripture. The word 'obey' isn't in the text and your inclusion of it implies the existence of an authoritarian relationship between the Father and Son. It also implies a passive attitude from the Son to the Father.

The word 'entolen' can mean 'commission', 'precept' or 'authority' (as in receive the authority or given permission). The Scriptures say that Jesus, of his own free will, laid down his life and the Father loved him because of this. If the Father merely ordered Jesus and Jesus passively obeyed him (can the Son disobey the Father??) what virtue is there in that?
---Marc on 9/11/14


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'3 beings in one Godhead or Kingdom'- aka

I challenge you to show me where this is explicitly taught in scripture.

The '3 in one' concept devised by Hellenic Platonic philosophies is still running through your belief system. You are a slave to the pagan trinity dogma.

I've never said I believe in 'demi-gods'. This is usual trinitarian confusion. There is only one Almighty God- Jehovah. Jesus is described as 'a god' (Jo.1:1) not that Jesus is 'a God' or 'The God' he is with.

Neither is Jesus the God who resurrected him as you believe and cannot explain. Your belief system is anti-christ as it denies the death of the Christ.
---David8318 on 9/12/14


Thanks Aka. Triunity. That's a good word.
---therese on 9/12/14


//The false-odox teaching negates the death of Jesus if Jesus was 'God incarnate'. The truth is Jesus died and was resurrected back to life by his Father- Jehovah (YHWH) God.//

David,
Jesus is God in His divine nature. When Jesus died in the flesh on the cross, His human nature died, not His divine nature.
A person who is not born of the Spirit cannot understand spiritual things.
"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God" (1 Cor. 2:11,12).
---Luke on 9/12/14


//Sorry my use of the word mystery probably was the wrong word.// therese

mystery is a perfect word for the Perfect setup.
---aka on 9/12/14


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//I believe in a Godhead consisting of 3 entities, Who are in total agreement in every way with each other but having different functions.

They can function without the other members of the Godhead but they would always agree and support each other. // therese

that's basically what i believe. i call it triunity.

however, even though there is different function, i do not believe they can act independently. it always has to be interdependent.

like a family...father, mother, and child. in order to maintain the integrity of the one family, all three have to act in unity.
---aka on 9/11/14


Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord one Faith , one Baptism,

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord:

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death: but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord:
---RichardC on 9/11/14


Sorry my use of the word mystery probably was the wrong word.

I used the word mystery 9/9/14 before to describe something that is amazing, that the Creator God should do this for us, not to describe something we cant know something about and believe.

Scripture tells us about this unique relationship, (Father, Jesus, Spirit)intact from all eternity and forever.
---therese on 9/11/14


//the pagan triunity doctrine. You have been unable show the difference between trinity and triunity- obviously because there is no difference// david8

trinity - 3 persons in one God

triunity - 3 beings in one Godhead or Kingdom

A simple difference

Challenge ... I can find denominations that believe in the trinity. I can find examples of beliefs systems that believe in one main god and many demigods like yours.

Find one example of a group that believes in triunity.
---aka on 9/11/14


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1st Cliff and David8318, Im trying to figure out exactly what you believe Trinitarians believe. They dont believe in a 3 headed God in one body.

My view of the trinity is this. I believe in a Godhead consisting of 3 entities, Who are in total agreement in every way with each other but having different functions.

They can function without the other members of the Godhead but they would always agree and support each other.

The Hebrew used for God in the story of creation is a plural. Let US make man in our image. Genesis 1:26. The Spirit was also there. Gen 1:2
---therese on 9/11/14


David, God is the Father of Jesus. Doesn't the bible say He is God's only Son? No one seems to understand but we know it's true that God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost. When you teach something false, it makes you a false prophet. Read the bible and throw the books away.
---shira4368 on 9/11/14


'Who ever said the Son was the Father? I didn't'- Cluny.

Neither did I. What I said was Jesus is not the Father who resurrected him. The diabolic 'mystery' trinity as expressed in your false-odox dogma says Jesus is both fully God and fully man... 'God incarnate' is your un-biblical trademark.

So how can Jesus also be the Father who resurrected him? This is why many (like Therese) find the trinity a 'mystery'- they can't explain the trinity confusion. The false-odox teaching negates the death of Jesus if Jesus was 'God incarnate'. The truth is Jesus died and was resurrected back to life by his Father- Jehovah (YHWH) God.

The trinity is designed to be a mystery purely to ensnare the likes of Therese.
---David8318 on 9/11/14


Yes JESUS is GOD.

Mic 5:2

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

These two verse alone prove it. So does John chapter 1 and Isiah 53.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 9/11/14


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Marc, Jn.10.18. NIV Says,rightly, "authority" because it says "this "command
I received from my Father" so the Father gave Him authority to obey this command !
The dead have no power! unless. of course' you don't believe He really died !

Can you define Jesus' death?? please do so !
---1stcliff on 9/11/14


Because Jesus dying is a scriptural teaching. Theres no mystery about it... Jesus is not eternal. Jesus is not the Father who resurrected him..
---David8318 on 9/11/14

I will believe you understand who Jesus really is when you can explain how Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit and not born of only man (human).

If Jesus was not only man (human), what else was He? And if Jesus was more than merely human, then perhaps that "other" thing Jesus was could not die and lived on while His humanity died.

As I said to you, your theology only makes sense if Jesus never existed.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/11/14


\\ Jesus is not eternal.\\

In His human nature, He is not, but in His divine Nature, He is.

\\ Jesus is not the Father who resurrected him- \\

Who ever said the Son was the Father? I didn't.

\\thats how diabolic your trinity is. \\

Your teaching is diabolical.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/14


'And how do you know what YOU understand is the truth'- Cluny

Because Jesus dying is a scriptural teaching. Theres no mystery about it... Jesus is not eternal. Jesus is not the Father who resurrected him- thats how diabolic your trinity is. Jesus died and was resurrected by his Father. That is something that you trinitarians cannot spiritually discern

Therese languishes in the 'mystery' trinity perpetuated by the RCC and its side kick your flase-odox church.

Trinitarians usually play the 'mystery' card because they cannot discern the truth. If the trinity is a 'mystery' to explain, how can trinitarians know for certainty that the belief that Jesus is not the Father who resurrected him is wrong!?
---David8318 on 9/11/14


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Yes He Is.
Isa. 9 v 6, prophesy Fulfilled, Jesus Christ.
Thomas said to Jesus, my Lord & my God John 20 vs 27 28.
---Lawrence on 9/11/14


Unless someone can explain something else in the following verse, Jesus is the ONLY person to know the Father, not Moses, not Jacob, not Abraham, not anyone in the OT. And no one knows Jesus except the Father.

So unless you can prove to us where your knowledge comes from, only the Father knows if Jesus is God and also to whomever Jesus chooses to reveal it to.

Matt 11:27 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him"
---Mark_Eaton on 9/11/14


John 10:30 - I and my father are one.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me,
John 14:7 - If ye had know me, ye should have know my father also, and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him,


Hosea 13:4 - Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no God but me, for there is no Saviour beside me,

Titus 2:13 - Looking for that blessed hope and glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,
---RichardC on 9/10/14


Cliff, exousia has other meanings. Strong's has 'right in the sense of ability'. Thus, "I lay [my life] down of my own free will. I have the ability to lay [my life] down, and I have the ability to take my life up again." If merely meant authority it would appear to negate the intended sense of an unfettered exercise of Jesus' free will because it would imply someone has ordered him rather than through his freedom.
The Father loves the Son because he freely lays his life down. If he were ordered it would be nonsense to say the Father loves Jesus for doing something he was told, and not freely chosen. It can only mean what I said: Jesus has the ability within himself to overcome physical death and resurrect his own physical body.
---Marc on 9/10/14


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You are deluded of course. Please try to stay on topic.
---David8318 on 9/10/14

//I don't have regard for one of the 144,000?//

Quite frankly I couldn't care less what Russell did...
---David8318 on 9/3/14

//But your comment is just another of you diversionary, hyjacking tactics.//

i just asked you kindly to let me post my whole thought.

//I have no patience//

i am sorry that you are such a slave to the WTS.
---aka on 9/10/14


"Is Jesus God?" Jesus is the Son of God, His fulness, bodily. Col.2:9. Jesus is the embodiment of Father's Spirit, without measure. Jh.3:34. When we see Him, will we have seen the Father in the only way He will ever be corporeally percieved.
---Josef on 9/10/14


\\Part of the Godhead dying is a mystery'- therese

If part of the godhead dying is a "Mystery", how can trinitarians be so sure that what they understand is actually the truth?
---David8318 on 9/10/14\\

And how do you know what YOU understand is the truth, David?

But since spiritual things are spiritually discerned, nobody expects you to understand this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/10/14


Marc, The word "power" here also has the meaning "authority" , but to promote the belief in trinity the biased translators chose "power" to give it the extra slant ! Look it up !
---1stcliff on 9/10/14


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Perhaps on the eve of 9/11 "Christian" Zionist Marc would remind us where fellow CZ Falwell placed the blame.

"Christian Zionism: The Most Virulent and Hatred Driven Heresy"- Dr. Jim West, Adjunct Professor of Biblical Studies:

"Christian Zionists...are quicker to malign, misrepresent, and attempt to deceive concerning those with whom they disagree than Satan himself...

...Its best if some...dim Christian zionist tries to interact with you to ignore them and let them wallow in their own cesspool of vile Hagee-esque idiocy. They aren't interested in conversation [but] in hearing you say something which they can then distort...to demonize you and exalt their own heretical anti-christianity."
---scott on 9/10/14


Scott,

You should have continued and quoted Acts 3:14: "But you denied the Holy One and asked for a murderer." Who is the Holy One that Israel denied and put a murderer in place of?
"I am YHWH, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King." (Isaiah 43:15)
"Are you not from everlasting, O YHWH my God, my Holy One?" (Habakkuk 1:12)
"As for our Redeemer, YHWH of hosts is his name." (Isaiah 47:4)
"The redeemer will come to Zion." (Isaiah 59:20)
"But we were hoping that it was [Jesus] who was going to redeem Israel." (Luke 24:21)
"being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:24)
---Marc on 9/10/14


The Watchtower never uses genuine Ignatius epistles. They prefer to quote the Ignatius forgeries, the pseudo-epistles written much later. The genuine Ignatius epistles unambiguously call Jesus "God", 4 using "our God" e.g. "For our God Jesus Christ, being in the Father, is the more plainly visible." (Romans 3) and "I give glory to Jesus Christ the God who bestowed such wisdom upon you" (Smyrneans 6).

David and Scott were previously warned of this dishonest appropriation of pseudo-Ignatius but, "as a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly." (Proverbs 26:11)
Beware of Watchtower men for they will "cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit". (Colossians 2:8)
---Marc on 9/10/14


The God of Jesus-

Acts 3:13 refers to "The God of Abraham...Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers..."

Who questions what the God/Abraham, God/Jacob relationship means?

No special, mysterious, theological gymnastics necessary.


Right:

(Messianic prophecy) "And he [Jesus] shall stand...in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God... " Micah 5:4, ASV

"Glorify the God and Father of...Jesus Christ." Rom 15.6

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..." 2 Cor 1:3, 11:31, Eph 1:3, 17, Col 1:3.

"The one who is victorious I [Jesus Christ] will make a pillar in the temple of my God..." Rev 3:12 NIV
---scott on 9/10/14


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David, JWs wrote the book on arrogance , My older brother died in June past and his obit did not include my name as family! He carried his hatred to the grave,never forgave me for resigning, it's my belief that if you don't forgive, you will not be forgiven !
Fine upstanding Christian !
---1stcliff on 9/10/14


Paul says Jesus was fully God
Col 2:9: For in [Jesus Christ] dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead BODILY.
In the likeness of man, Jesus was unchanged not separate from his nature as God or his divinity.
1 Tim 3:16: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
John 1:1 the Word was God in the beginning. John describes the majesty of the Word who had the light of all men, and created all things (John 1:1-3)
The Word of God stepped into humanity as flesh.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
---michael_e on 9/10/14


1st Cliff,

"This is why the Father loves me: I lay my life down so I may take it again...I lay it down of my own free will. I have power to lay it down, and have power to take it again." (John 10:17)
Jesus has the power within himself to raise his own body from death. As creator, through whom all things were made (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, 2:9), he has the power over all life, including his own. Only the creator can overcome death, not the creature.

The pagan Watchtower theology has an angel as creator of all, who died and raised his own spiritual body, who is a creature within whom "all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily." A creature with all the attributes of the Almighty? Heresy!
---Marc on 9/10/14


aka... who gave you the monopoly on these blogs? Your arrogance perhaps? Since when was arrogance a virtue?

I have no patience when it comes to the pagan triunity doctrine. You have been unable show the difference between trinity and triunity- obviously because there is no difference.

Your understanding of 1 Tim.3:16 is not short of blasphemous. God does not have to be justified in anyway and never has God been without glory. Whereas, Jesus Christ has in both instances.

I don't have regard for one of the 144,000? You are deluded of course. But your comment is just another of you diversionary, hyjacking tactics. Please try to stay on topic.
---David8318 on 9/10/14


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aka, Thanks for your personal belief on "God" I just can't see it as logical. What is your definition of "immortality"?
(I defined it below)
Jesus did not fit the description of an immortal god,because the Father "gave" His Son's life (Jn.3.16)
it was no charade .Jesus "actually" died!
Is it your contention that 1/3 of this "godhead" died and 2/3 were still alive ?
---1stcliff on 9/10/14


God is and always has been Father, Son, and Spirit in relationship, fellowship, and in-dwelling so close it can only be described as "oneness". Their sharing, giving, and other-centered love is the deepest truth of God.

There has never been a time when God was alone or not in relationship as Father, Son, and Spirit. When we say God, we say relationship.

The Incarnation of Jesus allowed Jesus to become human and to die. When Jesus died, He did not stop being the Son of His Father and did not stop being God.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/10/14


'I believe God is three persons in one'- Geraldine.

In Hebrew, Greek, or English, singular personal prounouns signify a person is being identified. However, trinitarians must resort to outright denial of this fact insisting God is three plural persons rather than one singular person.

'There is no other God but me'- Is.45:21.

Trinitarians deny these verses refer to a single person. However in total contradiction, trinitarians also insist we must conclude the Holy Spirit is one distinct third person because singular personal pronouns are used of the HS and the HS has the 'attributes' of a person. While both of these things are true of God, they hypocritically deny God is one person.
---David8318 on 9/10/14


just wait one more time please...---aka on 9/10/14

---David8318 on 9/10/14


I asked you kindly to wait. However, what can i expect from someone who has little regard for someone God chose of His 144,000 as JWs believe.

Patience is a fruit of the Spirit. Something which you also have rejected. it is no wonder

thanks cliff...

there is no "checks and balance", but there is in the alpha and omega.

that is triunity which is not another form of the trinity. and, you may call it polytheistic. well, so is a system with one supreme God and many little ones.
---aka on 9/10/14


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part 2

house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles (12 tribes related), believed on in the world (goyim), received up into glory.

let me put it this way: the US is one government. it is made of three branches: the executive, the judiciary, and the legislative. without them, the one nation cannot operate or survive.

take a look at what is happening, the chief executive and the "judciaries" are finding ways to supercede the constitution. therefore,...

just wait one more time please...
---aka on 9/10/14


'Bible is also clear that Jesus rose again after death'- aka

But this does not contradict the teaching that Jesus did actually die while God was still alive- thus proving they are not the same person. God who was still alive resurrected his son from the dead. There is no "mystery".

1 Tim 3:16, 'He was made manifest in flesh... was received up in glory'. "HE" in this verse of course is Christ.

Trinitarians play the 'mystery' card when their pagan trinity (triunity) theology cannot be scripturally explained. If the Godhead is a mystery to trinitarians, how can they be so sure the belief that Jesus and God are seperate individuals be so wrong?
---David8318 on 9/10/14


Bible is plain that Jesus died on Calvary. God was still alive. They are not the same !
---1stcliff on 9/9/14

Bible is also clear that Jesus rose again after death. The Father was still alive. When Jesus left this earth, the Father was able to dispatch His Spirit who teaches us all things.

Therefore, as from the beginning, the Godhead, One God, or godliness (as the Godhead is commonly called) revealed in scripture was, is, and will always be in tact.

1Ti 3:15...

david8 and cliff, i am limited to 125 and one post per update. please let me finish before you comment.
---aka on 9/10/14


Seems to boil down to i/3 of God was not immortal ?
I didn't know that God could be fractionalized Deut.6.4 says otherwise !
It's not unusual for pagan gods to have multiple personalities. Somehow this crept into the belief system of Christendom !
---1stcliff on 9/10/14


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Mat.27.46 "Eloi, Eloi,lama sabahthani " Jesus crying out to His Father (Why are you so far from me )
Certainly is NOT God calling to Himself by the wildest imagination.
What kind of religion teaches this nonsense ?
Jesus is God's "SON"
That's pretty plain , isn't it ?
---1stcliff on 9/10/14


'Part of the Godhead dying is a mystery'- therese

If part of the godhead dying is a "Mystery", how can trinitarians be so sure that what they understand is actually the truth?
---David8318 on 9/10/14


Yes, 1stCliff, Jesus is God Incarnate.

In the Hypostatic Union, He borrowed death from His human nature to free us from it.

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life! (Paschal Troparion)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/10/14


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