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Cost Of Evangelism

Mark Driscoll warned that another would be closed if donations fail to increase. Denominational churches have always been about money. Without money denominational church could not upkeep thier buildings. Spreading God's word does not need money. What do you think?

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 ---Steveng on 9/14/14
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//Let their arguments, if you are right, be between them and God. Use the sword!!//
---David on 10/15/14

Jesus said,

"Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Mat 26:52

Every word in God's arsenal is figurative as well as literal. Be careful the sword you yield and how you handle it and whose ear you slash. your opponent might fence with superior weaponry and better fencing skills.

Psa_63:10 They shall fall by the sword: they shall be a portion for foxes.

if you are right.
---aka on 10/16/14


//Most missionaries...... like yourself do not know (the)"Gospel", nor take it where it would/could be received.// I am not a missionary,
---Luke on 9/30/14

Never called you one. Said like missionary's you do not know the Gospel.
After 2000 years the results are in. Those like you in ignorance of Gospel, are sending the foolish, sometimes "sheep" to wolf countries. I will not donate a nickel sending ignorant and or foolish to wolves.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Eze 34:30 Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.
---Trav on 10/16/14


Most of you are rebels against the Church of Christ. You do what you want in your own little house, and from there you complain about others who do go to Church.
---Luke on 9/30/14

Your confusion is a perfect example that I cannot/will not partake with. Overlooking and Teaching/promoting this confusion is more grievous. It is hard but, necessary to rebuke un-scriptural outlaws as yourself, in view of any sheep.
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 10/16/14


Steven, use David's advice, after all he is a Jehovah Witness. So use the same sword he does when he answers, his sword is the New World Translation. Then you will belong to his denomination.
---Luke on 10/16/14


Stephen
Brother, I am with you. But don't make this your word against theirs, fight them with the word of God.
Let their arguments, if you are right, be between them and God. Use the sword!!
---David on 10/15/14




Stepheng, what landscape upkeep is necessary for churches? In U.K. most churches are a building with 4 walls, 2 outer doors and 'some' have a small car park and that's it. We have a kitchen just big enough for one person to boil the kettle, make the tea/coffee and later, do the washing up. Members walk or park in the streets.

No grandeur here nor in any church I know of.

Spreading God's Word never needs a beautifully manicured landscape or fabulous building, it just requires true believers prepared to communicate God's love to others.
---Rita_H on 10/8/14


Steven,
I don't have to ask my church for anything. I am not out to bash them or condemn them for anything. You only look for things you can speak against them. That is your duty in life. You must have been hurt by one of them. So you rebel against any organize church.
So you make it your duty to look for anything wrong in them. First take the log out of your eye, before you judge anyone.
No matter in what house you meet at, whoever owns it has to pay taxes. The places we meet are larger to meet the amount of people who come. They at least go to church. You never do.
---Luke on 10/8/14


Luke, there's a huge difference between your denominational church (the building and property) and personal residences. Your denominational church spends more than eighty percent of the revenues to maintain your buildings and landscaping. Ten percent goes to salaries. The rest goes to charity or, as you claim, missionaries.

As for our group, one hundred percent of our money goes to the poor and needy. We don't have a building specifically for assembly once a week to pay for the upkeep.

Ask your church for the IRS 990 Form and see for yourself. If you can't decipher it ask your accountant.

And that "log" comment doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.
---Steveng on 10/7/14


//If you truly want to know where your denominational "church's" money comes from or where it goes in complete detail take a look at Form 990: the Annual Informational Tax Return.//

I know where our money goes to Steven, to pay taxes and support the maintaining of our church, and also to support the missionaries.
How about your home taxes? or the home where you meet? those taxes go to pay many things. The same as the taxes from our church. Why don't you look at the log in your eye before you judge the speck in someone's eye?
---Luke on 10/7/14


Forget about looking at your denominational "church's" audited financial statements or the usual tax returns.

If you truly want to know where your denominational "church's" money comes from or where it goes in complete detail take a look at Form 990: the Annual Informational Tax Return.

This form shows in detail where the revenues come from and where they go (naming sources), total assets, lists all the related organizations (including any funds parked in another company), determines actual wealth (including stocks and bonds it owns), and any transactions between insiders (board members).

Do this for your local church and the top level organization. This will surely open your eyes to the truth.
---Steveng on 10/6/14




Elena,
Thank you so much for your support concerning missionaries. Man live in their own comfort homes, and refuse to go to Church, and instead they complain about them. Some do that because they have been hurt by someone at a Church, others because they don't like something the Church is doing. So they leave and never go to Church again. Then tell everyone that the only church that matters are those who meet in homes. They don't have to follow any rules, they can do what they want. It would be ok for all of us who do go to church, but they accuse the Churches and congregation who meet on Sundays. They forget that many Churches support many missionaries around the world, but they just don't care.
---Luke on 10/1/14


//Well, would donate to send you somewhere "distant" for edu.
Most missionaries, like yourself do not know "Gospel", nor take it where it would/could be received.//

Trav,
You have not been listening. I am not a missionary, I have not given up everything for missionary work. God did not call me to do that. But I and many others supply many missionaries with tools so that they can take the gospel to many nations, more into North Korea and China. You must be one who doesn't go to church. Most of you are rebels against the Church of Christ. You do what you want in your own little house, and from there you complain about others who do go to Church.
---Luke on 9/30/14


Interesting! Important,too..to all here, bless..listen,Bro.Luke correct, there are people missionaries in lik middle east, el Salvador,Columbia, places under demon spiritual attack to kill missionary/ and or their children.In one case it was in Columbia the child kidnapped killed.The parents are christians, an agency contact me, the dad say determined to relocate but he
Serve Jesus NO MATTER WHAT...These are real people.
Love of Jesus!
---Elena_9555 on 9/30/14


Cluny wrote: "You never give Scripture to back up your railing against what you call "worldly denominational churches."

Yes I have, but it got to a point where it seems rarely no one was searching my scriptures so I just tell them "be like the Bareans and search the scriptures yourself." I then would help them search certain words using a searchable KJV bible (biblegateway, for instance).
---Steveng on 9/29/14


Trav,
Jesus was sent by the Father, and Jesus sends us to take the gospel to the world, not seat at our chairs at home watching TV.
---Luke on 9/27/14

Well, would donate to send you somewhere "distant" for edu.
Most missionaries, like yourself do not know "Gospel", nor take it where it would/could be received. Having a form of knowledge but, not Truth.
And why is not accepted, after 2000 years...it's visible who accepts and who doesn't.
As to my church, the work is not in the church, home or otherwise. The sick need healed not the well.
Rod4him, acknowledges better the work being done with your foolish donations.....in most cases.

Take care of the "world" you are of.
---Trav on 9/29/14


Rodforhim,
I have no clue what missionaries you are talking about. But the real missionaries have lost their lives in many countries. In North Korea, many have lost their lives, also in China. The ones we help have to hide so they will not be found. Those are real missionaries, that give up their easy life here in America for the cause of God's kingdom. Jesus said to go unto all the world and make disciples and that is what many are doing. Most of them are funded by many denominations. Just like our church does. And they bring film on what they do. Before you cut them down in front of all the world, read what the real missionaries are doing all over the world.
---Luke on 9/29/14


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\\Is that all you can come up with? No words of wisdom? No verses from the bible? You, too, are in sarry shape.
---Steveng on 9/28/14
\\

Don't criticize me for not doing what you don't do yourself.

You never give Scripture to back up your railing against what you call "worldly denominational churches."

But here's a word of wisdom for you: There is no A in "sorry.'

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/28/14


Cluny: "Did you look into the mirror when you wrote this, Steveng?"

Is that all you can come up with? No words of wisdom? No verses from the bible? You, too, are in sarry shape.
---Steveng on 9/28/14


\\Hogwash. If you don't recognize your own brother or sister in Christ, you ARE in bad shape spiritually.
---Steveng on 9/27/14
\\

Did you look into the mirror when you wrote this, Steveng?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/28/14


Luke: "I can tell you are not saved, that you are not my brother."

You hypocrite. Now YOU are playing God.
---Steveng on 9/28/14


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//...[missionaries] They are sacrificing their lives for the cause of the kingdom.//

Maybe some are. I live among "missionaries" and many appear to be on an extended vacation, doing "church" the way many people do who work for a living. I wouldn't give to a missionary unless one personally knows that person and sees their activities. BTW, the Biblical admonition is to give to the poor.

Some consider me a missionary because I live in a different country than the US, but since I support myself, I don't get that distinction, which is more than fine with me. When a Christian asks if I am a missionary, I tell them, "No more than you are."

BTW, I live in a country which are 2% "Christian."
---Rod4Him on 9/28/14


Trav "all you should have to do is put the word m__q in any of your appeals....and the donations would pour in"

We never make appeals. Our own members are always made aware of the situation - as they should be - and God gives guidance to individuals as to whether or not they should increase their tithing or, personally, give a lump sum to help pay costs.

We actually use some of our money to buy equipment for 2 schools and a youth club. This is a small part of the way we evangelize but God is no man's debtor. He gives us more than we ever give Him.
---Rita_H on 9/28/14


//Only God Knows? Hogwash. If you don't recognize your own brother or sister in Christ, you ARE in bad shape spiritually.//

Steven,
now you present yourself as God, great. You must be special. God must have given you the gift to see a persons heart. The fact is concerning your attacks on the Church, I can tell you are not saved, that you are not my brother. No brother of mine would attack the Church of Christ. My brothers and sister edify the Church when they believe they are wrong. You must say to yourself,
"I am glad I am not like them"
Because only your little group and youself are saved and all others are lost. But that is all in your mind.
---Luke on 9/28/14


Luke: "You have no clue who belongs to the Spiritual Church of Christ, only God know who they are."

Only God Knows? Hogwash. If you don't recognize your own brother or sister in Christ, you ARE in bad shape spiritually.
---Steveng on 9/27/14


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//It cost nothing here...but, time.
It cost monetarily nothing to share wherever we are.
The witnesses, prophets, apostles in scripture paid the price. It sure seems/feels wrong to merchandise them or our Lord.//

Trav, it cost everyone a little sacrifice to give not only money but material to the Missionaries. They are sacrificing their lives for the cause of the kingdom. You seat at home and do nothing but hoard your money. What sacrifice do you do at your home meetings? Jesus was sent by the Father, and Jesus sends us to take the gospel to the world, not seat at our chairs at home watching TV.
---Luke on 9/27/14


Spreading God's word does not need money. What do you think?
---Steveng on 9/14/14


It cost nothing here...but, time.
It cost monetarily nothing to share wherever we are.
The witnesses, prophets, apostles in scripture paid the price. It sure seems/feels wrong to merchandise them or our Lord.

Joh_2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence, make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
2Pe_2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Luk_5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician, but they that are sick
---Trav on 9/26/14


Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh.....
---Trav on 9/25/14

Yeah but that hour has not cometh yet, and people like to meet in buildings, my church currently meets in a convention halls or old grocery stores.
---Scott1 on 9/25/14

You made the point....where ever you are is acceptable, as circumstances allow.

That hour has been since before Christ death......Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
---Trav on 9/26/14


//If you hate me then you hate Jesus for he, too, doesn't like organized religion. There is to be a time soon that your denominational churches will compromise the bible to keep its non-profit status.//

Steven,
I don't hate you, I feel sorry for you. You have nothing but condemnation for all organize churches. Only yours is ok. You are not speaking for Christ, you are against His Church. You also say Jesus does not like organize religion, what do you think His visible church is? An organize Church. I'm not speaking of His spiritual Church. You have no clue who belongs to the Spiritual Church of Christ, only God know who they are. You are an enemy of Christ's visible Church.
---Luke on 9/26/14


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Luke wrote: "...it is written in your hate for the Churches of Christ."

As I have written many times before when people like you accuse me of something you don't understand.

You accuse me of being hateful, but hundreds of people in my area will say otherwise. They will tell you that I'm the most content person they know.

If you hate me then you hate Jesus for he, too, doesn't like organized religion. There is to be a time soon that your denominational churches will compromise the bible to keep its non-profit status.

You need to realize that the church ARE the christians and christianity is a lifestyle of love - as in the verb form.
---Steveng on 9/25/14


mega churches are not denominational. Their crowd pleasers who's false gospel appeals to all. There is no Gospel, which contradicts the definition of denomination. Most denominations have a clear statement of faith. If you like their statement you join, if you don't, you don't join.

There have been denominations from the beginning of the church age. Anna-baptist's believed in adult baptism not infant. Wycliffe believed God gave KINGS over nations, not POPES.

God has given us free will, and we will be judged on that free will to have rightly divided the Word of God and then rewarded on how we built on the foundation already laid. Stop trying to build another person's house. That's between them and The Lord.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/14


Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
---Trav on 9/25/14


Yeah but that hour has not cometh yet, and people like to meet in buildings, my church currently meets in a convention halls or old grocery stores.
---Scott1 on 9/25/14


"..it is about the building. A loved building." Trav.

I do NOT want a mosque 3 minutes walk from my home.
---Rita_H on 9/25/14

Man, about all you should have to do is put the word m__q in any of your appeals....and the donations would pour in.
....before letting a mQ utilize....would take pictures for the memories and lay 100 slices of bacon all over it.
Then perhaps meet in small flocks in a public _______ or someones_______ to worship our GOD.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
---Trav on 9/25/14


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I don't know what you mean. Scripture ways what it says, and our manuscrits witness to each other. What other witnesses do we need?-StrongAxe

Strongaxe
What Steven means by witnesses, he means biblical testimony from more than two biblical writers, which do witness to each other.

For example, their are many doctrines which teach their understanding of something Paul taught. But these teachings are not taught by any other teacher in the New Testament, including Jesus Christ. And in many cases, these teachings are the complete opposite of what Jesus Christ taught.
---David on 9/25/14


"..it is about the building. A loved building." Trav. This is not about the building but the building is part of the whole. This was dedicated to God many generations ago and glorified God with a huge congregation at one time. If the elements were allowed to ravage it it would soon be in such disrepair that it would be sold off at a pittance and probably bought by muslims and turned into a mosque. Christians should use their money to keep such a place going to glorify God for many more generations.

I want that church to remain there as long as God allows it to be there. I do NOT want a mosque 3 minutes walk from my home.

God shows that He is with us in this renovation by touching people's hearts to give as required.
---Rita_H on 9/25/14


Steven,
I am careful what I write. I sure don't know you personally but I sure know how you think, because it is written in your hate for the Churches of Christ. From the time I first started to see your blogs they have always been of complains about denominational churches, who give for the cause of God. But your little church at home is the only holy church. You say you give sixty percent, to whom? your neighbor? Million of missionaries have lost their lives spreading the gospel, and they are sent by the Churches you hate. Now your blog is again against the churches and you say they have always been about money. How much have you lost to them? Spreading God's word does mean we have to sacrifice the money God has given us for His kingdom.
---Luke on 9/25/14


Luke: "Yet you complain, because money is where your heart is at."

I want to make one thing perfectly clear: I don't complain, I tell the truth.

You assume way too much.

If "money is where my heart is" why do I give out more than sixty percent of my paycheck?

You need to be very, very careful about who you "think" I am. By posting your false accusations of me on these blogs, you are actually giving false testimony - and I'm sure you are aware of the ninth commandment.
---Steveng on 9/24/14


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Your so-called denominational (and non-denominational churches who are part of the government) churches spend upwards of 85% of their donations on the upkeep of their buildings and landscaping.
---Steveng on 9/23/14

Sheep have been sending Lambs for 2,000 years. The results are in.
Sheep are sheep. If they are not they don't get it or want it.
Sheep eat grass, Lions,Bears,Tigers and Wolves eat sheep and goats.
Mat_10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Act_20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Wolves are sending sheep now.
Who defends/supports the wolves?
---Trav on 9/24/14


Steven,
You have no clue what you are talking about. Missionaries who have no money cannot travel to China, they cannot take Bibles, cassettes, tapes with sermons. They are willing to go or to be "sent" as Jesus commands us to do. while you give food to the poor an call yourself a Christian, many are going to other countries because people are dying without Christ, even missionaries are dying for the cause of the kingdom. What is your sacrifice? You complain about them sending missionaries, you want the missionaries to all use their own money and those who have it use it. Yet you complain, because money is where your heart is at.
---Luke on 9/24/14


Luke: "In the denominational churches Money is collected for missionaries who bring the gospel to many nations, like China, Japan, Africa, and other places."

So, without money the gospel cannot be preached? Before the 1960's, "missionaries" went throughout the world and lived among the people of other countries to preach the gospel. Immigrants (the legal ones) came to America, was converted to christianity, then traveled back to their country to preach God's word.

Your so-called denominational (and non-denominational churches who are part of the government) churches spend upwards of 85% of their donations on the upkeep of their buildings and landscaping.
---Steveng on 9/23/14


//Can you meet in the preachers garage, shop, shed, barn, pavilion, yard, tent//
Of course
---michael_e on 9/23/14

Evidently not .... it seems.

1Co_3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
---Trav on 9/23/14


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//Can you meet in the preachers garage, shop, shed, barn, pavilion, yard, tent//
Of course
---michael_e on 9/23/14


Trav - "Can you meet in the preachers garage, shop, shed, barn, pavilion, yard, tent?

Answer No. We hope for growth and it would be a backward step to move somewhere small.

Our church is serving a community, has a youth club one evening for poor kids IN THIS AREA.

Our pastor is the one who travels to US in OUR area. It would be ridiculous for us all to travel to him.

What makes our church beautiful is its simplicity - old, raw stone, nothing ornate. It is a place of worship not a showpiece.
---Rita_H on 9/23/14


Luke Seventh day Baptist also keep the Sabbath along with a number of Messianic Jewish groups. During the Protestant reformation a number of groups kept Sabbath.

Why did the Pope ask for a law forbidding Sabbath observance by Christians in the third century? I need to look up the exact date.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/23/14


..... of continuing worshipping God in a beautiful, very old and non-extravagant building.

We are NOT all about money - we are just the opposite.
---Rita_H on 9/22/14

Rita...wouldn't offend you in any way. Believe truly that you guys are not about the money.
If you read what you said though....it is about the building. A loved building.
Can you meet in the preachers garage/shop/shed/barn/pavilion/yard tent, that is paid for.....it is the "group" you want to worship with....right?
Preacher gets a raise, for studying his Bible from the savings.

Mat_18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
---Trav on 9/23/14


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I attend a denominational church and without money it could not survive. We have one paid pastor but his salary is lower than average. Recently we needed a new roof, an enormous and very expensive construction and a lowered ceiling will be installed to make heating cost smaller. Christians have offered interest free loans, one large gift has been made and weekly offerings have noticeably increased which is good. Much prayer was offered as to whether or not the work was feasible.

Keeping out the elements is not a luxury but an essential way of continuing worshipping God in a beautiful, very old and non-extravagant building.

We are NOT all about money - we are just the opposite.
---Rita_H on 9/22/14


//Our homes are personal living quarters and paid for with our hard earned money. 100% of donations we receive go to help others in need - not the upkeep of a building and landscaping.//

Steven,
If you are meeting at anyone's home, that place, becomes the building you meet in. And that place needs money in order for you to meet there. Even if you already own you home, you still have to pay taxes just like any denominational church has.
In the denominational churches Money is collected for missionaries who bring the gospel to many nations, like China, Japan, Africa, and other places.
While you are helping the poor, and as Jesus said, we will always have the poor, missionaries are spreading the gospel.
---Luke on 9/23/14


Friends, please stop nit picking. We do need money for the upkeep of the property, electricity, insurance and pay pastor for his time etc. it's not easy being a shepherd/servant of God. We congregate to meet, to study, to fellowship etc etc etc. why? Becos we believe in Christ our Lord and savior and want to increase our knowlege in knowing how to get to heaven. isn't that what this is all about?
---Jasper on 9/22/14


Luke: "you condemn the church of Christ."

I condemn all denominational churches and non-denominational churches who are non-profit corporations. The true church of Christ ARE the christians - not a building or denomination.

Luke: "Your home church needs money also,..

Our homes are personal living quarters and paid for with our hard earned money. 100% of donations we receive go to help others in need - not the upkeep of a building and landscaping.

Luke: "You preach salvation by works,..

You wrongly assume much.

Luke: "You teach Saturday Sabbath, only SDA's preach that."

True christians and the jewish people observe the sabbath.
---Steveng on 9/22/14


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Others believe parts of the Bible, so they pick verses out of context. That happens here a lot.
---Luke on 9/22/14

Interesting mix of ironic, self iconic theory's ya got there.
I go to church but, am not a signed flavor card member. Our commonality, is a Christian card....and scripture witnessing scripture.
I wake up looking for: "Scattered", "Lost" sheep, occasionally one is found. Usually at the end of a long hunt, just ahead of snarly wolves.
Eze_34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
Psa_44:11 Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat, and hast scattered us among the heathen.
---Trav on 9/22/14


//Most denom today like to be led by effeminate "pastors" who cannot find two witnesses for any scripture.//

Do they?
Can you offer any proof of this assertion?
---Cluny on 9/19/14

That you didn't provide proof for me being wrong is a first witness.
A second, the News itself. No "Ram" type preacher" is making headlines fighting the murder of 55 million aborted babies or any other abominations.
If the effeminates must be pointed out, named.... does one really get it???
Proof?? There would be no arguments or denominations..... if all honored multiple scriptural witnesses....here or in any Church. GOD didn't provide faulty witnesses as Prophets or Apostles.....only men provide this.
---Trav on 9/22/14


I'm sure you are correct

No denomination is correct IN EVERYTHING
---Peter on 9/21/14

Appreciate your post. And consider as you do the Denom puzzle. Not one has it all...yet all have some.
Non Denom, is a denom in one sense.
Preference personally....just Christian. Hard enough to just be a Christian without the "denom's", extra's added to the shoulders.
I've no total solution....just recognize that man has complicated. It appears scripturally that we should escape from the complication of men. For myself, too reduce the men's complexity out, look for Christian that believe scripture, witnessing scripture. Might be "12" viewpoints/gates to consider?
---Trav on 9/22/14


Any pastor who preaches does not need two or three witnesses, when he is preaching from the Word of God.
---Luke on 9/19/14

The one teaching you needs them, so you might defend properly what you cannot.
Without, he is not effective. He has no proof. He is an opinion cold cut or on fired up.
Scriptural witnesses eat him alive, charisma and all. Wasting everyones time, discouraging.

Jer_3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
Rev_3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
---Trav on 9/22/14


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Normally, the people that cut down the denominations are the same people who never go to Church in the first place, and when they do go, they find everything wrong, always looking for faults and never for the truth. They find everything wrong where ever they go, when really their own gospel is wrong.
Others condemn all denominations because they are heretics, really atheist. They don't believe the Bible and question what God's word says, their is no light in them.
Others believe parts of the Bible, so they pick verses out of context. That happens here a lot. If they hate Christianity, they should just leave. But no, they wake up in the morning looking to cause trouble with the person instead of looking to help others.
---Luke on 9/22/14


Trav on 9/18/14: So which Denomination is correct??
None.

I'm sure you are correct

No denomination is correct IN EVERYTHING

You will find some correct parts in one denomination, another part in another, another part in the 'non-denomination' etc.

But each part will be found in a section of the church which gives itself a name - or, there may be some truth that currently is not found by any group of the church

But do not get bright ideas about non-denominational groups - they also have their own set ideas (in this case, the set idea that they are not connected to another denomination!)
---Peter on 9/21/14


Trav:

You wrote: Most denom today like to be led by effeminate "pastors" who cannot find two witnesses for any scripture.

I don't know what you mean. Scripture ways what it says, and our manuscrits witness to each other. What other witnesses do we need? Also, the above is an accusation. Can you point out specific pastors above, and can YOU provide two witnesses for this? If not, it's "pot kettle black".

"Men" who find the witnesses don't need a "flavor label". Truth is their denomination.

Most denominations are formed when men of one group discover their group is teaching something obviously wrong, and decide to follow the truth (as they discovered it) instead.
---StrongAxe on 9/19/14


//Most denom today like to be led by effeminate "pastors" who cannot find two witnesses for any scripture.//

Do they?

Can you offer any proof of this assertion?

Or is it just your own prejudice speaking?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/14


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//Most denom today like to be led by effeminate "pastors" who cannot find two witnesses for any scripture. "Men" who find the witnesses don't need a "flavor label".//

Any pastor who preaches does not need two or three witnesses, when he is preaching from the Word of God. If he is preaching from his own ideas then he is not preaching from the word of God. Many denominations teach the wrong gospel, but not all of them do that. In every denomination you will find Christians, and if the church is teaching wrong, they will leave at one time or another. The elect cannot be deceived.
---Luke on 9/19/14


Steveng: If your church is 'non-denominational' as you claim, the result is that it believes NOTHING!
---Peter on 9/17/14

So which Denomination is correct??
None. Better to search and find the "narrow" path than carried along the popular wide way.
Most denom today like to be led by effeminate "pastors" who cannot find two witnesses for any scripture. "Men" who find the witnesses don't need a "flavor label". Truth is their denomination....an all who have found it worship in unity no matter where or when. Under the sky, in the road....in any building.
Mat_7:13 ...for wide is the gate, broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, many there be which go in thereat:
---Trav on 9/18/14


//Spreading God's word does not need money. What do you think?//

steven,
I believe you are the double of Lawrence. He condemns Trinitarians, you condemn the church of Christ.
The missionaries do need money to go on their missions. God provides that money through the Church. Churches need money to pay the bills. Your home church needs money also, to pay the house payments so that you have a place to meet. If you meet at a park, the taxpayers are paying for the keep up of the park.
You preach salvation by works, many denominations teach salvation by Grace through faith. You teach Saturday Sabbath, only SDA's preach that.
---Luke on 9/18/14


Peter I've been saying almost the same thing. My denomination tells what I believe. That is why I am what I am.
---shira4368 on 9/17/14


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Scott
Please don't misunderstand, I am not condoning greed.
I give money all the time, only I give it to those, whom God wants me to give it to.

I do not give it to those, who claim to be the arbiters of Gods money, those who when given Gods money, do not use it as God used the tithe.

The tithe was a collection of food, placed in Gods storehouse.(Malachi 3:10)
Why food?
So there would be food in the storehouse, for those in need, like the widow, orphan and the foreigner.

Read (Deuteronomy 14:22-29) and you will see what the tithe was actually for, and why it was collected. Also, that God never excepted money as a tithe.
---David on 9/18/14


Steveng: If your church is 'non-denominational' as you claim, the result is that it believes NOTHING!

Anything believed has to be checked, and what is accepted makes the denomination

A non-denominational church is a non-existent church
---Peter on 9/17/14


//Meaning...... giving a tithe is more important to God, than keeping his commandments.//

---David on 9/17/14

But

You cannot serve both God and Money. In the NT "under the law" does not mean we are free from the law it means we are subject to the spirit of the law. So giving a tithe is a command under the law but under the NT it shows "where your heart is your treasure will be also." Thus tithing is the outward expression of your heart, a true nature of greed.
---Scott1 on 9/17/14


Steven
That's why many churches ironically, still teach tithing.
The irony?
They also teach we are not under the law.

So in reality what they are teaching is,
"We are not under the law, but we are under the law of tithing."


Meaning...... giving a tithe is more important to God, than keeping his commandments.
---David on 9/17/14


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\\Denominational churches have always been about money...
---Steveng on 9/14/14 \\

I'll bet the worldly denominational Church of Steveng wishes it as as much money as he thinks other churches have.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/14


Denominational churches have always been about money...
---Steveng on 9/14/14

Why do you continue to insult your brothers and sisters?

What is it that you want us to do, quit every church that we attend?

Your continued attacks on denominations is immature. We all know the problems with denominations. However, we also want to attend church and be connected to others in the BOC.

Be thankful you have a "church" group to meet with. Many do not.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/16/14


So a Missionary goes to India to spread the gospel. Does he not need money to pay for living and books ...?
---Samuelbb7 on 9/15/14

India and other pagan nations,have heard the Gospel and not responded after two thousand years. Past time to care for our own, we've neglected, widows,orphans,elderly,sick like they don't exist..... for heathen/pagan strangers.
1Ti_5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you,
Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
---Trav on 9/16/14


"Christians ARE the church - not a building or denomination." Steveng - please explain to me what it was I said in my post which made you feel that I did not already know that and needed it to be pointed out. Perhaps you can enlarge on what you wished me to understand in addition to those words.
---Rita_H on 9/16/14


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Rita_H wrote: If you wish your church to succeed it needs money, even if you don't pay a pastor you'll still receive heating bills etc.

Steveng wrote: Christians ARE the church - not a building or denomination.

True enough. However, if you want to meet with other Christians, and you would rather not have to do it in an empty field, scraping snow off your boots, you're going to need a building to do it in - and that takes money. If you want a pastor who can devote his time into the ministry, rather than just a few hours a week from a full-time job making tents so he can pay his own living expenses, you're going to have to pay him a salary and/or provide him with a home, and that costs money.
---StrongAxe on 9/16/14


So a Missionary goes to India to spread the gospel. Does he not need money to pay for living and books and Bibles to give away?

Yes a church can become all about money for itself and do nothing. But that is a misuse of money.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/15/14


Rita_H: "If you wish your church to succeed it needs money, even if you don't pay a pastor you'll still receive heating bills etc."

Christians ARE the church - not a building or denomination.
---Steveng on 9/15/14


Several church buildings have been sold in our city in recent years due to financial woes.
A local Pentecostal church here is remaining open only because they run a day care center in it !
---1stcliff on 9/15/14


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Steveng, are you able to get your Bibles for free?

How about concordances and similar books?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/14


Whether or not spreading God's Word requires money depends on who you wish to spread His Word to and how close or far away from you they happen to be.

You can spread God's Word on a bus or train, in a supermarket, to your own loved ones and neighbours without spending any hard cash but if you wish to be a part of His Word being spread around the world it definitely requires money.

If you wish your church to succeed it needs money, even if you don't pay a pastor you'll still receive heating bills etc.

I would not want Mark Driscoll as my pastor. I think he uses crudeness as a shock factor and, to me, that is juvenile.
---Rita_H on 9/15/14


\\Spreading God's word does not need money.\\

That's not what St. Paul said in many places.

And Mark Driscoll made a rather tasteless remark about relationships between men and women that would be an offense against chastity to post here.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/14


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