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Follow The Ten Commandments

Are the Ten Commandments relevant in today's Christianity?

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 ---jerry6593 on 10/3/14
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Is rat poison man made? And what does that have to do with anything? No one drinks gasoline either. Why? Any half intelligent person knows these belong to no food group and never will.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/14


//Tell me can you eat rat poison because nothing you eat can harm you?// Samuel

non sequitur. likewise, can you eat kosher rat poison? i cannot find where God said explicitly that rat poison is forbidden.

//..think He is wrong?//

do you believe that Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles and his instruction was not from the Lord?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

They are only a shadow of Christ Jesus to come. Col 2:17

if you want to follow what you read as God's diet, please do so. however, if one wants to fill his gut with possibly trichinosis laden meat, there is no judgement, but the body may suffer.
---aka on 10/14/14


What you take in or eat can kill you.

Many people eat or snort or shoot up themselves into an early grave.

Tell me can you eat rat poison because nothing you eat can harm you?

GOD set a diet that is good for us. So do you believe that GOD knows what is best for you to eat or think He is wrong?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/14/14


Mark E, good point you made when you answered Jerry concerning animals. The context of Mark 7:15 is about what defiles a man, and that is what comes out of our mouths not what goes in. What goes in the mouth is eliminated but what comes out of the mouth is what is in the heart.
Verse 20 says,
"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.
---Luke on 10/14/14


Please understand: it means no food item swallowed can make someone a sinner.
The Lord didn't say by that statement that, "What you take in cannot HARM you".
---Adetunji on 10/13/

I never said it did or did I infer that it did.

The word defile is a keyword here because it discusses a spiritual condition known to the Jews. We understand the verse today because we can understand what defilement meant to the Jews.

I understand the verse to say that "food or drink cannot create a separation between me and God or between me and the fellowship of believers".
---Mark_Eaton on 10/13/14




Actually Kathyr as a church the Seventh day Adventist have been leaders in trying to save this world of which GOD called us to be caretakers. Samuel///


Save it in what way Samuel. Do you realize the names I've been called by the SDA here on line because I believe we are trashing this world?

Doesn't seem like all the SDA's here are in agreement. Some can get quite NASTY about the subject claiming to be an expert because they have a Geology degree. I don't actually recall you stepping in with help at that time?????
---kathr4453 on 10/13/14


Gal 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:2-3 ...Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
2C0 3:7,8,11 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious...was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
---micha9344 on 10/13/14


Mark - Eaton : // Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him, ..//

Please understand: it means no food item swallowed can make someone a sinner.
The Lord didn't say by that statement that, "What you take in cannot HARM you".
---Adetunji on 10/13/14


//But again the main point is GOD gave Ten Commandments not suggestions and we should follow what Our LORD says because we love Him.//

Samuel, God gave the Ten Commandments to show us our sin. And no one has been able to keep the written Law. All who are lost are under the Ten Commandments, the Law is condemning all who are lost. All who are saved are under the Spirit of the Law. Christ has kept the written Law for them. He did what we as believers could not do. The Law is very much in effect today, it is keeping those under the Law condemned. With some prayer, God can open your eyes to this particular truth.
---Luke on 10/13/14


Actually Kathyr as a church the Seventh day Adventist have been leaders in trying to save this world of which GOD called us to be caretakers.

Rev 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great, and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Yes those who love GOD go above and beyond the Ten Commandments. They as a start keep them in love towards GOD and man. So if you are going above and beyound them that should mean you are keeping them.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/13/14




The biochemical compositions of those animals have not changed till now.
Eating them can cause Ebola, AIDS or barrenness, death, cancer etc.
These ailments/diseases were things God is saving us from when HE gave instructions about unclean animals, it hasn't changed.
---Adetunji on 10/10/14


Something interesting came to mind today re: this statement.

It's funny, those who are so serious about putting bad food in your body or over eating causing obesity, leading to unhealthy lives, absolutely deny the putting of poisions in our atmosphere, or the ruining of our forests, oceans etc, have caused an unhealthy world. Why is that?
---kathr4453 on 10/12/14


Romans 13: 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.----10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And This fulfilling of the LAW is called the Perfect Law of Liberty.

Today we walk in the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE JOY peace longsuffering, faith, etc, against such there is no law. Why because those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh where lawlessness lives. But wahy is more, this Law of liberty, meaning set free from sin allows one to go beyond the 10 commandments to places the 10 commandments could never take you...that is to be OVERCOMERS. Only those who obey the perfect law of liberty can be an overcomer.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/14


Romans 14 is about buying meat at the marketplace that has been offered to idols not clean or unclean food.

All men were declared clean is what the passage says not all food.

This is a health issue. Our bodies are temples of the HOLY SPIRIT.

But again the main point is GOD gave Ten Commandments not suggestions and we should follow what Our LORD says because we love Him.

Agape to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/12/14


Romans 13:9 indicates that the Ten Commandments are still valid today. The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet, and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
---sin on 10/11/14


Mark E: "No where is there an unclean/clean distinction."

Not so! The Bible is replete with such distinctions, and the unclean is called an abomination to God (Isa 66:17), and God never changes.

But I suspect that you are a New Testament only type, so I ask you: How many years after the cross do you think Peter uttered the words "...Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean" (Act 10:14)? Does that sound like someone who is "free to eat the abomination"?


---jerry6593 on 10/11/14


Acts 10:28

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, but God hath shewed me that I should not call ANY MAN common or unclean.

How exactly did God show Peter this? I believe it was through a dream, re animals unclean to the Law God forbid them to eat, on a sheet, God said he made clean.

Yet we see in Romans 14 many still having a weak conscience, the weaker brother not eating meat the believing Gentiles were eating. Again the issue is FAITH, NOT LAW. Concluding what ever is not of faith IS SIN. Yet THIS SIN, our legalistic gentiles fail to see.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/14


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Eating them can cause Ebola, AIDS or barrenness, death, cancer etc.
These ailments/diseases were things God is saving us from when HE gave instructions about unclean animals, it hasn't changed.
---Adetunji on 10/10/14

Aids didn't begin by eating anything. It began by MAN making a vaccine out of the wrong kind of monkey.

And my understanding is because of horrible drought conditions these people are forced to eat anything to keep themselves alive. Probably another man made disaster in raping the rain forests.
---kathr453 on 10/11/14


Act 10:28 ...God hath shewed me that I should not call any [ANIMAL] common or unclean.
---jerry6593 on 10/10/14

But just a few pages over...

Acts 15:20 "but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,from things strangled, and from blood."

No where is there an unclean/clean distinction. The Apostles said "why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear"? Test God?

What does Jesus have to say?

Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him, but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man".
---Mark_Eaton on 10/10/14


i do believe that all food should be properly refrigerated if needed, prepared with proper food handling and prep, and cooked to eliminate any chance of getting diseased.

i don't think that we have any restrictions, but it is wise to consider past experience and advice.

since most of us do not know how the food was handled before we got it and the lies and mismanagement told to turn a profit. Do you really trust that nathan's franks are really kosher? do you think that all the veggies you buy are clean?.

with that said, does God care about your health or does he care that you followed all the steps perfectly. if the latter, then you had better start preparing your food supply from start to finish or there is no excuse.
---aka on 10/10/14


Kathr4453: //I.. believe .. God showed Peter the sheet with unclean animals .., not only .. represent Gentiles but unclean animals too. EAT..,//

NO, you are wrong. A dream, trance or proverb sometimes points you only to something different from its literary instruction.
E.g. Gen.37:7 ,sheaves never in real-life bowed to Joseph sheaves but his brothers in person bowed before him.
God forbade eating of monkeys, chimpanzees, and poisonous animals, fishes, birds.
The biochemical compositions of those animals have not changed till now.
Eating them can cause Ebola, AIDS or barrenness, death, cancer etc.
These ailments/diseases were things God is saving us from when HE gave instructions about unclean animals, it hasn't changed.
---Adetunji on 10/10/14


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Kathr: You seem confused regarding biblical laws in that you treat the Ten Commandments the same as the ceremonial sacrifice laws. The Ten Commandments were written by Jesus Himself on tablets of stone, and are permanent in nature. (Otherwise murder, adultery, etc. would now be acceptable to God.) The ceremonial laws of animal sacrifice were written by Moses on parchment as the handwriting of ordinances. These became obsolete with the death of Christ (the true sacrificial lamb), and are no longer in effect.

As for your taste for the unclean abominations to God, you attempt to change the context of Acts 10 to say

Act 10:28 ...God hath shewed me that I should not call any [ANIMAL] common or unclean.


---jerry6593 on 10/10/14


Dear kathr4453 They know morals but don't follow them. Look at the movies and websites glorifying adultery. Most non-Christian use the name of GOD in vain, worship gods of money and power. Many who call themselves Christians live like the world?
Have not watched TBN since most of it is different evangelists trying to sell the gospel.

I agree with you health food people can go overboard.

I have been an Elder, and Bible teacher for over 20 years.
Not eating unclean food or eating it will not save you. We are saved by Grace alone. But we do stress that GOD who knows us gave us a good set of diet rules to follow.
Your statements do not alter that we who love JESUS will love to keep all His commandments.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/9/14


I also believe when God showed Peter the sheet with unclean animals on it, not only did that represent Gentiles but unclean animals too. EAT in faith my friends, because there are no "health regulations" we are to follow. Only to those who make money selling supplements and Barley and have made a religion and profit off of it, in the name of God!

Have you ever watched an SDA show on TBN? It's all a sales pitch for health food and supplements. Isn't that called using the Word of God for profit?
---kathr4453 on 10/9/14


We are to obey the Moral laws of right and wrong.////

Samuel all Christians obey the moral laws. Even non Christians have morals and know right from wrong.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/14


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We do not obey the ceremonial laws that pointed to the coming of JESUS who is our Savior and LORD.

We are to obey the Moral laws of right and wrong.

It is also good to follow the health regulations that will help us to live longer healthier lives.

2Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

All the Bible is for us to study and read but we do not have follow the regulations of ceremonial cleansing. We are cleansed by the blood of JESUS CHRIST which they all pointed too.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/9/14


Well since the LAW pointed to sin then pointing to Judgment, pointing to little lambs being slain to cover sin where they took that judgment pointing to Jesus Christ who paid the ultimate Judgment, exactly what PART of the LAW have you stopped obeying Jerry?
---kathr4453 on 10/9/14


Samuel: Yes indeed, the Law was never intended as a means of salvation, but rather as a mirror which shows us the sin in our lives - the sin from which Jesus came to free us. The problem arises when people twist the writings of Paul to give license to sin by claiming that the Ten Commandment Law (which Jesus wrote with His own finger) no longer applies to them. Pity.


---jerry6593 on 10/9/14


God want us to look to Him for life, salvation, and righteousness. Liberty and grace go hand in hand with the new life of Christ. Liberty but not license (Gal 5:13).
The Christian walk has more "laws" than the 10 commandments and we must depend on God to live it.

Mark_Eaton


Lets all PRAISE GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST For all He has accomplished for us through the Cross.
We are being CHANGED from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord, not the spirit or the letter of the law.

kathr4453

Yes I agree with all you both wrote. The law only defines sin. Which we are to not live in.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/8/14


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Jerry. Before the Law was even implemented, the MORAL LAW of Conscience was instilled in every man. NOW if you understood and obeyed Romans 6, you would find surrendering your members to God as those alive from the dead....(meaning that death we died with Christ,) we serve in Righteousness. WHY, because ALSO our conscience has been purged from DEAD WORKS, AKA: THE LAW) by the blood of Jesus Christ to serve the Living God.
Lets all PRAISE GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST For all He has accomplished for us through the Cross.
We are being CHANGED from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord, not the spirit or the letter of the law.
---kathr4453 on 10/8/14


Seeing they do not see, hearing they do not hear!

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

----
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

----
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
---kathr453 on 10/8/14


So hopefully you will now understand that we agree
---Samuelbb7 on 10/8/14

The Law promotes death and does not give life. The Law condemns and does not save. The Law shows sin but does not give righteousness.

God want us to look to Him for life, salvation, and righteousness. Liberty and grace go hand in hand with the new life of Christ. Liberty but not license (Gal 5:13).

The Law also created grey areas that Jesus addressed, such as committing adultery in our heart. The Christian walk has more "laws" than the 10 commandments and we must depend on God to live it.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/8/14


No, we are not free to disobey, when the Spirit of Jesus Christ is in us, [HE that lived in the flesh & did not disobey] HE will also lead us not to disobey.
Adetunji


The NT doesn't say they are ok to do. Why do you think those under Grace do these things? The New Creature created in righteousness and Holiness lives by the faith of Christ in him. It means you have been FREED FROM THE POWER OF SIN. kathr4453

Thank both of you for agreeing with me. What you have written agrees with what I am saying. We look to JESUS and are freed from the power of sin. We are not free to disobey.

So hopefully you will now understand that we agree. Instead of accusing me of trying to save myself.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/8/14


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//Then by Grace you should want to keep by love the Ten Commandments.//

Samuel,
Why do you not understand that no one can keep the
Commandments of God perfectly. I don't even try. I have Christ who could keep them all for me. And anything good that comes from me, is because of God who is working in me. He gets the glory, not I by trying to keep the law.
You are stuck under the law, but you cannot keep it. But you fight for it because of the Saturday Sabbath. You cannot get out of the law. You are stuck in the Law.
---Luke on 10/8/14


Kathr: "Jerry I have never born [sic] false witness to the Power of the CROSS."

The Commandment against lying was not limited to the subject of the Cross. You have demonstrated your ability to break this Commandment on many occasions. You teach that Christ came to save you from the LAW rather than from SIN, as He declared. Jesus, on the other hand, taught that not a single jot or tittle of the LAW would change while heaven and earth remain. And further, He said that those who teach the rot that you propound are called LEAST in heaven.

SIN is the breaking of Ten Commandment LAW for all mankind. Satan has the power to tempt us to SIN, but Christ has the power to keep us from sinning.
---jerry6593 on 10/8/14


Samuelbb7:

//But why would GOD say these are okay to do when the New Testament says not to do directly many of them?//

The NT tells to look unto Jesus, HE will guide us & make us to fulfill all the laws. But if we look unto the law ( & not to Jesus), we will surely stumble.

Warwick:

//aithforfaith, in obeying the "perfect law" are we therefore free to disobey the 10 Commandments?//

No, we are not free to disobey, when the Spirit of Jesus Christ is in us, [HE that lived in the flesh & did not disobey] HE will also lead us not to disobey.
---Adetunji on 10/8/14


The NT doesn't say they are ok to do. Why do you think those under Grace do these things? The New Creature created in righteousness and Holiness lives by the faith of Christ in him. So you think Christ in you leads you to do these things? This argument is actually stupid, and shows anyone who says or thinks such things has no clue what the Law of Liberty is. It doesn't mean you are at liberty to sin.
It means you have been FREED FROM THE POWER OF SIN. Just as out statue of Liberty shows we are free from tyrants wanting to control us. Does our statue of Liberty state the USA is flaunting it's liberty to sin? What do you believe our liberty in the USA means Samuel? Would you prefer a dictatorship? Why are you afraid of Liberty? Freedom?
---kathr4453 on 10/7/14


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faithforfaith, in obeying the "perfect law" are we therefore free to disobey the 10 Commandments?
---Warwick on 10/7/14


Yes we are to walk in the Spirit. For the HOLY SPIRIT will lead us to love GOD above everything #1.

Not to put anything or statues in the place of GOD.#2.

To respect the name of GOD and use it only in praise. #3

To honor our Father and Mother. #5
To not Murder or hate or neighbor, #6
To love our Marriage partner and forsake all others. #7
To not take that which does not belong to us. #8
To Not lie. #9
To not want what belongs to others#10

No one can say doing these things is against love and following GOD.

I just believe #4 is the same principal.

But why would GOD say these are okay to do when the New Testament says not to do directly many of them?
---Samuelbb7 on 10/7/14


Jesus kept His Father's commandments and yet He tells us that His yoke was easy and His burden was light and he asks us to take His yoke upon us and learn from Him. He wouldn't tell us to do something we cannot do. Take rest from Him, put on His yoke and the heavy burden you think you cannot carry might be lighter than you think.
---barb on 10/7/14


The 10 commandments were only for Moses "and the ISRAELITES" (Exodus 34:27).

WE are to observe the PERFECT LAW.

James 1:25 "the perfect law, the law of liberty"

...if we do not observe the perfect law, God will consider us to be "LAWLESS".

We have been taught 2,000 years of perditious/destructive teachings. The modern church of man is the outcome/result ("son of") all of that "perdition (2 Thess. 2:6).

Jesus told His Father that all that He was given is saved and that "NONE IS LOST" EXCEPT "the son of perdition".

This generation of worshipers needs to make it their goal to learn how NOT TO BE included in the "son of perdition".
---faithforfaith on 10/7/14


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Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh,
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
---Adetunji on 10/7/14


Law and GRACE do not go hand in hand.
---kathr4453 on 10/7/14

Paul actually uses the illustration of a woman whose husband has died in Romans 7 to show that we have been freed from the Law by the death of Jesus and have been wedded to Jesus and serve Him in the newness of the Spirit.

If we believe this passage, then trying to perform the Law and Grace at the same time is committing adultery to Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/7/14


Galatians 2:20-20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Samuel ONLY if you want to FRUSTRATE the Grace of God. Law and GRACE do not go hand in hand. The LAW frustrates GRACE and our growing in the GRACE and Knowledge of Jesus Christ. The LAW does not produce suffering that conforms us to the Image of Jesus Christ. It actually HINDERS it.
---kathr4453 on 10/7/14


Jerry I have never born false witness to the Power of the CROSS.

Thank you Luke for bearing true witness to scripture as to HOW we are FREED from the Power of sin. The LAW can never free you, but only keep you in BONDAGE never having that REST we are promised and experience right now.

Jerry may bear false witness in that he believes keeping the Law will give him entrance into Heaven. Yet he would have to be as perfect and as sinless as Jesus Christ to do so. Jerry gives false witness that he believe righteousness is IMPARTED not IMPUTED.



---kathr4453 on 10/7/14


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It frees us from the slavery of sin. We are no longer slaves to sin, but in our own sinful nature we still sin. But we are no longer slaves to it. Luke

Then by Grace you should want to keep by love the Ten Commandments.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/7/14


//I believe that He wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger as a guide to keep us from sinning. I believe that He kept them ALL as an example for us to follow.//

Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments not as a guide to keep us from sinning but to show us our sin. He didn't keep them all as an example for us to follow but because no one can keep them all. Only He could. You should study your Bible very carefully. Kathr is correct. When she said,
" So our death with Christ, is what deals with freeing us from the power of sin or our old man."
It frees us from the slavery of sin. We are no longer slaves to sin, but in our own sinful nature we still sin. But we are no longer slaves to it.
---Luke on 10/7/14


Kathr: It is apparent that although you assert that you believe Christ, your actions deny it. You have no problem breaking His Commandments, particularly the one about bearing false witness. The Law points out your sins - as in this case - but it is Christ who can give you the power to overcome sin. You seem to embrace disobedience as a virtue, and obedience as sin.

John 8:11 Go and sin no more.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
---jerry6593 on 10/7/14


Romans 6:7

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Barb, this is what scripture says, what i know, what i believe. ..and what YOU consider foolishness. The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to USWARD WHO ARE SAVED. IT IS THE POWER OF GOD This IS the Gospel Barb.
---kathr4453 on 10/6/14


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Kathr, It is the Holy Spirit who frees us from the power of sin by teaching us Truth and Obedience. Jesus taught rebirth thru the Holy Spirit to gain entrance into His Kingdom. I can find nowhere where He said we have to die on the cross with Him.

Jesus said to deny ourselves and pick up OUR cross (not His) and follow Him. To me that means to follow His example even if it leads to persecution and death. Matt 16:24. He also said that anyone who did not pick up THEIR cross and follow Him was not worthy of Him. Matt 10:38.
---barb on 10/6/14


//If Christians are bound by the Ten Commandments, then they must keep Shabbat.
---learner2 on 10/3/14//

You never had a day off from work. That is amazing.
---Scott1 on 10/6/14


Samuel, yes, the blood washes away sin, but does not wash away our old man who still sins. So our death with Christ, is what deals with freeing us from the power of sin or our old man. Romans 6 - 8 give a complete step by step of our walk after we become a New Creature.

Also Galatians the fruit of the spirit....says those who have crucified the flesh are Christ's...then says against such THERE IS NO LAW. One of the fruit IS LOVE, but there are more.

SO I Know exactly what I am saying and it is not what you are saying Samuel.
---kathr4453 on 10/6/14


Amen com7fy8

True Kathr the law does not save or has the power to save.

The law is like a mirror that tells us our face is dirty. We must be cleansed by the Blood of JESUS to be free from sin.

The law defines sin.
1John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

But only Grace given to us because of the death of JESUS on the cross saves us.

But as com7 points out we are to now live in love and that means we want to obey GOD.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/6/14


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The Ten Commandments are relevant. But greater than these are our Two Love Commandments >

"'The first of all the commandments is: "Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD our God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength." This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." There is no other commandment greater than these.'" (in Mark 12:29-31)

Loving is personal, and twenty-four/seven, "in personal submission with God"- - in His love (Romans 5:5). "Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)
---com7fy8 on 10/6/14


Jerry, I BELIEVE we are crucified with Christ and DIE TO SIN and that is what is our guide to keep us from sinning. Romans 6-8 will explain. If the law was a guideline to "keep you from sinning" then the Law must have some incredible supernatural power to do that. I believe the CROSS is that POWER and the ONLY POWER that keeps us from sinning. Christ in YOU is what keep one from sinning.
---kathr4453 on 10/6/14


To be saved and truly keep the Ten Commandments you must be Born Again then love leads you to follow JESUS and when we follow JESUS in love we will
1John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Remember that JESUS said to Love GOD which deals with the first four commandemnts love your neighbor which is about the last six commandments which are the basics of love in action. But we are not just supposed to not do evil but instead do good.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/6/14


Kathr: "Jerry, it' sad to hear you openly confess that Jesus taking our sin and judgement means absolutely nothing to you."

Where do you get this stuff? I said no such thing! I believe that Jesus means exactly what he says. I believe that He wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger as a guide to keep us from sinning. I believe that He kept them ALL as an example for us to follow. I believe that He paid the price for our transgression of that Law on the cross. I believe that He will judge our fitness for heaven - not we ourselves.

What do you believe? That bearing false witness is OK with Jesus?


---jerry6593 on 10/6/14


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Barb, without Christ in you we are ALL every last one including you hypocrites and full of dead mans bones. In Adam all DIED....you seem to,forget that, and that was the point Jesus was making. No amount of law keeping or works could bring LIFE to our already dead mans bones.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/14


Kathr, Jesus' seven woes to the Pharisees in Matt 23 had nothing to do with their thinking it was enough to be of the seed of Abraham. Can you read those seven woes without seeing that they were not righteous in the eyes of God? According to Jesus the bar they set for righteousness was too low for themselves and too high for the people. They bound the people with heavy burdens that they themselves would not even attempt to carry. The bar they set for themselves should not be too hard to exceed.

"Even so you outwardly appear righteous unto men but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity".

"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?"
---barb on 10/5/14


kathr4453 worte: "What SEED was in Abraham? Or is there one seed, and that seed is CHRIST."

Why do christians make the bible more complicated than it is? Why do they not study the bible to be used as its own reference?

"Seed" equates to conception when the sperm enters the egg.
---Steveng on 10/5/14


"And in your seed shall ALL nations be blessed because you have obeyed my voice."
---barb on 10/5/14

What SEED was in Abraham? Or is there one seed, and that seed is CHRIST.

Jesus rebuked those Pharisees because they thought because they were Abraham's seed it was enough.


Scripture says those who,have the faith of Abraham. Abraham believed in the coming Messiah...so again it is the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH. The LAW of FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/14


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Jerry, it' sad to hear you openly confess that Jesus taking our sin and judgement means absolutely nothing to you. This is EXACTLY what the Jews were warned of in Hebrews 10. Insulting the Spirit of Grace, ( the ONLY unforgivable sin) trampling underfoot the Son of God, and making the BLOOD of the covenant of no effect. You are rebuked right along with these Jews still working for their salvation. YOU need to come the NEW AND LIVING WAY, THROUGH THE VEIL, THAT IS TO SAY HIS FLESH. Meaning the CROSS . You're simply on the wrong side, as they also stayed. You simply do not BELIEVE. I believe my sin was done away in Christ, and HIS righteousness has been imputed to me, once and for ever. Justification is a ONE TIME EVENT. Don't miss out.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/14


Kathr, I don't have to read Paul's account of the sacrifice to understand Abraham's obedience to God. Yes, obedience. Abraham obeyed God. Isn't that what the commandments are all about? Obedience. Gen 22:18 "And in your seed shall ALL nations be blessed because you have obeyed my voice."
---barb on 10/5/14


The situation with the 10 commandments has long been a puzzle to me. God considered they were of vital importance to the Israelites, however, as I understand it they were never meant as a road to forgiveness. Forgiveness was always of faith as Abraham shows us.

Post Jesus' resurrecting it is even more obvious the Commandments were not of salvation because if it were possible to be saved by them there would be no need for the horror and injustice of the cross.

But then, having been saved, are we free to disobey these commandments?
---Warwick on 10/5/14


Kathr: "Many people think they are good, good enough for Heaven, based on their own assessment of themselves."

"I'm saved. i know I have eternal life."


By these two statements you show that YOU - NOT GOD are the judge of your worthiness for salvation. That contradicts the Bible, and sets you up as your own god - blasphemy!


---jerry6593 on 10/5/14


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barb,
I believe you misunderstood what commandments Jesus was talking about. In Matt. 16:17 He only gave six commandments. He didn't have to give the rest since Jesus knew the rich man would not give up his possessions to help others. And why was that wrong? Because one of Jesus commandments is to love your neighbor. He was guilty of loving himself and his possessions more then loving his neighbor. On the other passages where Jesus says to keep His commandments He is not speaking of the Ten Commandments, He is speaking of the Commandments He gave the disciples, and what are the two commandments? You should know them.
---Luke on 10/5/14


Matthew 5: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So barb, is this how you assess yourself? Does you righteousness EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees? Paul WAS a pharisee, considering himself blameless. How was he to exceed his own level of blamelessness? . HE TOO understood what Jesus said. He remembering ABRAHAM, how FAITH not LAW INPUTED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS required. Paul never taught anything not already in scripture. Paul reiterates OT if you care to read Romans 5.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/14


Barb, actually read Romans 1-5...especially romans 4, where Paul explains Abraham's FAITH before the Law, and how the Law which came into effect 400 years later did not annul the promises made to Abraham. So unless YOU can post scripture here where Jesus had disqualified Abraham, and YOUR connection to Abraham ( you being a Gentile) you have no leg to stand on.

Even Peter after the Cross, one who was with Jesus never put GENTILES under the LAW. Nor does James, who uses Abraham faith perfectly in his epistle. What LAW says sacrifice your child? What LAW did Rahab do?
---kathr453 on 10/5/14


Barb, we simply have different beliefs in salvation. I'm saved. i know I have eternal life. I don't have to lay awake nights worrying if I will measure up. Such wonderful peace to know Christ in me measures up, and that is what God will access. Christ is the only one who does measure up, and that is why we need the righteousness of Christ. My own righteousness could NEVER be enough.
---kathr4453 on 10/4/14


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Kathr, aren't you doing the same thing? Assessing yourself? Which is better, to assess yourself on the words of Paul or to assess yourself on the words of Jesus Christ?

The truth is that none of us will know whether we are saved or not until Jesus has assessed us. "But he who shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13. "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be my son." Rev. 21:7. "He who rejects me and does not receive my Words, has one who judges him, the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day." John 12:44-50.
---barb on 10/4/14


Yes, in showing someone what SIN is in God's eyes. Many people think they are good, good enough for Heaven, based on their own assessment of themselves. But the Law is the schoolmaster of God's absolute perfection and righteousness no man measures up to.

TODAY as Paul found, considering himself blameless under the Law, that he considered dung compared to the Righteousness that is in Christ Jesus. Philippians 3.

Take that truth Paul found, someone who was a stickler on the LAW, an expert on the Law, and see WHY the Righteousness that is in Christ is far superior.
---kathr4453 on 10/4/14


If Christians are bound by the Ten Commandments, then they must keep Shabbat.
---learner2 on 10/3/14


Since the Spirit of the Law, "the perfect law" is greater than the phyiscal Law, Yes the 10 commandments still apply.

"You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be liable to judgement. But I (Jesus) say to that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgement"

Matt 5:21
---Scott1 on 10/3/14


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Yes. "If you will enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:47.

"If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love." John 15:10.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous." 1st John 5:1-6.

"Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faithfulness of Jesus." Rev. 14:12.

"And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and the ark of His testament was seen in His temple, and there were lightenings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail". Rev. 11:15-19.
---barb on 10/3/14


2Co 11:2 I betrothed you to Christ to present you as a pure bride to her one husband.

Rom 8:23 the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Gal 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Rom 7:6 But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code

1Jo 2:7 the old commandment is the word which you have heard.

We are NOT under the law of 10 commandments. We will be judged under the PERFECT LAW (James 1:25 and 2:12).

We have been ADOPTED to be SONS OF GOD, not slaves to a MASTER, but lovers of Abba FATHER)
---faithforfaith on 10/3/14


YES


Matthew 22:37-40 ESV

And he said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.
---aka on 10/3/14


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