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Finish It Here October 2014

Seeing that the finish it here blog is about to close, can we have a "continue it here" blog please? Thank you.

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 ---Chria9396 on 10/30/14
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Trav, see how many things you let slide, refusing to answer? Does it not bother you that Scripture (e.g. Genesis 3:18 thorns) contradicts your view? And you write "Childish to think animals, insect etc were not eaten or died in the creation food chain, before Adams sin", rejecting Genesis 1:29, 30 where God commands man and animals to be vegetarian. Is God wrong? Were you there?

BTW again I ask "How can eternal God who by definition lives outside of time live days of any length?" And where does Scripture say Gods days are 1,000 years?

So Adam didnt even make it to the end of the first day? Then who is the Adam we read of in Genesis 3:17? A cousin?
---Warwick on 11/9/14


Cliff, Genesis ch.1:
"And there was evening and there was morning-the first day."
"And there was evening and there was morning-the second day."
"And there was evening and there was morning-the third day."
"And there was..." Right to the end of the sixth day.

Exodus 20:11 referring to Genesis ch.1 God said "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them."

Note also that God, in his description of day one, (Genesis 1:5) the first ever day, "God called the light "day" and the darkness He called "night."

We have an evening to evening, day and night cycle and you say these are not 24hr days?
---Warwick on 11/9/14


"Christian Zionism is defined by what American anti-Semite Jim West reckons" Marc

Actually I'd be more concerned about, what appears to be, Marc's diligent efforts to live up to West's characterization of a "hate driven" group rather than whether or not the Doctors comments were completely accurate.

Marc's example seems to support West's assessment of the angry Christian Zionists.
---scott on 11/9/14


Trav, you wrote "You are reverting again to a selfposted legend, when scripture nails you." And pray tell where Scripture has nailed me?

Regards Holman I simply used his highly regarded dictionary I didnt marry his daughter. It agrees with the standard Hebrew Lexicon, that Genesis 1:5 defines a 24hr day. Is this lexicon wrong as well? I have used these resources (and there are many others) as you seem to reject or ignore any Scripture which contradicts you.
---Warwick on 11/9/14


Scott,

Another way of viewing your sidetracking exercise (i.e. is Watchtowerism polytheism because they've 2 gods and 2 creators?) is that you, American exemplar, will always reduce any complexity through the myopically parochial lens of what an American defines that issue as. Consequently, Christian Zionism is defined by what American anti-Semite Jim West reckons CZ is on account of what he reckons the American adulterer Hagee believes it is. Naturally, uniform obedience to dogma is a key virtue of Watchtowerites (Don't read unapproved literature, hey Scott!!). More than anything else it evinces a Watchtowerite's inability to (i) be honest (ii) carry out sound academic research. The cut-and-paste king of Kingdom Hall rules, OK!
---marc on 11/9/14




Scott,

I got your witnesses Hagee (the adulterer) and West (the antiSemite) mixed up. I blame that on you because you, rather than be held accountable for Watchtowerism's polytheism (remember 1 big god and 1 angel, I mean small god, which, when summed, equals 2 creators), dishonestly implied I don't believe in evangelising Jews, to DISTRACT from THE argument. (BTW, distraction, after lying, seems the preferred Watchtowerite strategum. I could be wrong and maybe the other way around?)

An old friend of mine, who gave his life to Christ in ways you hitherto won't be able to understand, once said, "When a JW is in Watchtowerism for 20, 30 years, they become liars but no longer know it." Scott, that's you.
---marc on 11/8/14


Trav, again you don't have the manners to use my name.

Do you imagine this death affected only man?
---Warwick on 11/7/14

Manners? Didn't even notice. Probably right, you bring out the worst side.
Animals have to eat to live, fly, swim,buzz. The food chain was going full blast before Adam ate forbidden fruit. Then he lived almost one of GOD's "Days", 930 years.
Gen_5:5 ...Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Rom 5:12-14...for until the law...sin was in the world (among Gen 1 male/female), but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, EVEN OVER THEM THAT HAD NOT SINNED AFTER THE SIMILTUDE (LIKENESS) OF Adam's transgression,...
---Trav on 11/8/14


'JW and SDA have some similarities'- Cluny (the false teacher... blog)

Cluny of course is a Catholic without a pope.

Interesting how Cluny tries to link JW's with other religious groups without any source references for his conclusions, when in his own back yard, his Unorthodox church is a sect of the Catholic church. Disgruntled with Pope Leo III, the Great Schism of 1054 occurred when the East split with the Western church.

For all of Cluny's vain historically incorrect efforts to link Russell & /or JW's with other religious groups, his Unorthodox sect is nothing more than a splinter group of the RCC. Other sects such as the Protestant movement followed Cluny's sect in splitting from the RCC over the matter of divorce.
---David8318 on 11/8/14


Warwick, Beating the same old drum...Evening to evening is a 24 hour day.!
Evening to morning is only half day !
Evening and morning have symbolic meaning to a measurement of time !
Some things are "spiritually" discerned !
You think darkness and light have no spiritual meaning ?
---1stcliff on 11/8/14


Trav (notice I have the manners to address you) demonstrates you have a patchy understanding ...
The highly respected Holman dictionary has shown your view is incorrect.
---Warwick on 11/8/14

Yeah, awe inspiring grade school logic. You are reverting again to a selfposted legend, when scripture nails you.
Please get off your knees before faulty men and everyone but GOD and his Son.
AJ Holman is publisher! Dead. The director/editor of your dictionary and NKJV was a man. Alfred Fastad(dead)was doctrinally biased and Faulty. You honor them like an Apostle/disciple. Wow. Wow.
You've got way too many fires to put out. The stars don't agree with you either. Nor the flood, nor the covenants.
---Trav on 11/8/14




Trav, that you would imagine there was carnivory in the new created earth shows your Scriptural ignorance. You need to read Genesis 1:29,30 which says both man, and animals were commanded to be vegetarian. Where do you get your strange Ideas? Obviously not from Gods word.

You would have us believe that the fossil record predates Adam (not mostly the result of Noahs world-wide flood) If so you have shown Scripture is again wrong, because Genesis 3:18 says that because of and after Adams sin the land would now bring forth "thorns and thistles." Who is right, you, or Scripture.

Please answer just one question and shock me. How can eternal God who by definition lives outside of time live days of any length?
---Warwick on 11/8/14


Trav (notice I have the manners to address you) demonstrates you have a patchy understanding of Scripture, and scant understanding of either Hebrew or English grammar. The highly respected Holman dictionary has shown your view is incorrect.

To say that Genesis 1:5 does not define the first (24hr) day is ludicrous, against the rules of grammar. Relevantly the Standard Hebrew Lexicon (Koehler, Baumgartner, and Richardson) says 'day' in Genesis 1:5 is a "day of 24hrs." If you read Genesis 1:5 you will see "light" is daytime and "darkness" is night-"And there was evening and there was morning-the first day." The first ever 24hr day.
---Warwick on 11/8/14


Trav,
... Holman Bible Dictionary..."
Genesis 1:5 "God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
---Warwick on 11/7/14

Interesting, light and dark. Light symbolizes GOD's Word and Spirit. Darkness the lack of it. "Yom" is open to generations and our human 24 hour day. Original Hebrew does not define in Gen 1. To say it does is you being dishonest or ignorant.
Gen 2:4 ..."Generations": is as implied, describing GOD's day to us.
Childish to think animals, insect etc were not eaten or died in the creation food chain, before
Adams sin.
Holman (A.Farstad) dictionary is a telling, and poor reference for you, being faulty and biased as its doctrinal sister the NKJV.
---Trav on 11/8/14


"Paraded Dr Jim West as evidence I'd said Jews shouldnt be evangelized." Marc

This is a lie. If Marc cannot provide the date and location of these comments that he's attributing to me (and I guarantee he will be unable to) than his lack of credibility is becoming all the more apparent.

What I did post were West's comments regarding Christian Zionism.

Comments that Marc seems eager to live up to:

"Christian Zionism: The Most Virulent and Hatred Driven Heresy"-

"Christian Zionists, who speak...about love of Israel...are quicker to malign, misrepresent, and attempt to deceive concerning those with whom they disagree than Satan himself..."
---scott on 11/8/14


"Joseph, thank you too for reading/responding.Appreciating all."
Chria9396 my pleasure. Your comments are always a biblically based delight. Appreciating you. Be blessed.
---joseph on 11/7/14


Scott paraded Dr Jim West as evidence I'd said Jews shouldnt be evangelized. Jim is special:
1. He's supported Christ at the Crossroads conferences which proudly hosts Holocaust deniers, anti-Semites, champions Hamas suicide bombers, Jews-aren't-really-Jews crazies, etc and is aggressively dismissive of people who disagree with his position.
2. He wrote on his blog, "The only people who pull their kids from public schools are the same sort who haven't ever read the Bible in Greek or Hebrew. This whole crusade is nothing but another in the long line of senseless crusades entered into by frenzied, uninformed, twaddling and prattling mobs of unwashed peasants."

You wanna rethink the company you keep, Scott?
---marc on 11/7/14


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Trav, again you don't have the manners to use my name.

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" Romans 5:12

"For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead" 1 Corinthians 15:21.

Do you imagine this death affected only man? Not so "For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now" Romans 8:22. Noah's world-wide Flood came to all land-dwelling air breathing creatures because of Man's sin.

If you say the death of animals and man shown in the fossil record is before Adams sin the Bible is wrong.
---Warwick on 11/7/14


Trav, in Genesis 2:4 the underlying Hebrew is indeed "yom" however it is not preceded by a number e.g. 5th day, so it is not meant to be taken as 24hr day. The Holman Bible Dictionary says of Genesis 2:4 "a general expression for 'time' without specific limits." The same dictionary says 24hr day is defined by Genesis 1:5 "God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day." The 6 days of Genesis ch. 1, (and Exodus 20:11), the 6 days over which God created, and the 6 days His followers were consequently to work, are all, necessarily by the rules of Hebrew (and English) grammar of 24hr length.
---Warwick on 11/7/14


... the fossil record... This record contains evidence of wholesale death, disease, and suffering, of animal and man.
However Scripture says these things occurred only after, and as a direct consequence of Adams sin.
---Warwick on 11/7/14

Scripture cannot support you, neither should any.
The fossil record does not support you in a global flood or a young earth.
Are you so entrapped, that you project dinosaurs didn't die until Adam sinned? Insects, plankton, birds, amoebas? Think all these were just grunting, chirping around waiting on Adam to eat?
B.C. ignorance of mens doctrines. Your trapped/enslaved by, CMI creation marketing image, a marriage rut. Come out.
yom #770,yome
a day,
---Trav on 11/7/14


Kath, the long-ages/evolution view holds the fossil record (which does not appear anywhere in the world as depicted in text-books) records the evolution of life over vast eons of time. This record contains evidence of wholesale death, disease, and suffering, of animal and man. However Scripture says these things occurred only after, and as a direct consequence of Adams sin. As the NT shows the gospel is based upon Jesus coming, and sacrificially dying, to overturn that which Adams sin brought upon the world. Death cannot predate sin as the NT says it postdated sin.

I do not follow your point about Carbon dating, please explain.

If someone promotes an evolutionary doctrine I feel confident they believe in evolution.
---Warwick on 11/7/14


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Unless one doesn't consider "Gentiles" to be at least part of "all nations", scripture and barb are conflicting.
I choose scripture.
---micha9344 on 11/6/14

I choose scripture. There is never conflict.
Like "erets", gentiles is latin, cloaking, a misused poor translation.
Choices for gentiles are: "ethnos" a race, a tribe, heathen, nation or people.
In most cases referring to "ethnos", "nation" of Israel...the Divorced House of.
If you lose your married name...are you still the same people? Called a new name if remarried? Isa 62:2
Tie Matt 15:24/10:6, Gal 4:5, Tit 2:14, Ex 19:5, Deu14:2/26:18, Psa 135:4, 1Pet 2:9, etc,into the hundreds and thousands.
---Trav on 11/7/14


Joseph, thank you too for reading/responding.Appreciating all.

Did/do not want to alter any message, but interesting. Sometimes more common, little words like shall, will, may be overlooked, yet can have great impact.
In Strongs shall is often used with another word/words. For instance, first use of shall recorded in Gen 1:29 To you it shall be for meat.
Shall be H1961 hayah
Some defs given:To be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, come into being
To arise, appear, come(and more)
second use is Gen 2:23 shall be called H7121.
Qara name, give name to, call by, call oneself
call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim
cry, utter loud sound
call unto, cry (for help)
proclaim,read,summon (more)
---chria9396 on 11/7/14


Trav,
From your various comments I gather you believe in long-ages/evolution.
---Warwick on 11/6/14
Go back read again. Katr, made observation about you. You confirmed observation, in response to me.
I've posted "evolution" is false, and other times.
No problem just waste of post space.
GOD's days (possibly)being 7,000 years and ours being 24hrs does not change the Sabbath.
Being Free, i don't have limiting doctrinal restrictions.
Freely, openly searching a non conflicting GOD, Scripture aligning with science. No conflict with mine.
---Trav on 11/7/14


...being bored out of my skull visiting l-ya-drop "heaven"....
JW brag that they are expanding and are the only ones visibly doing God's work).
---marc on 11/6/14

Wow, not JW, or defending J.W.'s.
Your ba,ma,da, ignorance is only exceeded by your ba,ma,da, arrogance. JW's, probably out living their faith, recruiting while you were looking down your glorious nose at the Skinny Duck mall.
Mar 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: ...
Mar 9:38 ...and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
Mar 9:39 ... that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part. <
Mar 9:42 whosoever shall offend one of these little ones ...
---Trav on 11/7/14


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Trav, you claim "those who disagree (with me) believe in evolution." JWs disagree with me. Have I said they believe in evolution?

From your various comments I gather you believe in long-ages/evolution. As do many others and I oppose them because it is a Biblically destructive falsehood.

How magnanimous, you "forgive" me, and that for something I have never done!

Regarding day-length Exodus 20:8-11 has God saying His followers were to work six days and rest the seventh, because He created in six days and rested the seventh. As shown here and in hundreds of other examples 'Day' preceded by a number (i.e. six-days) means 24hrs. Otherwise the Sabbath command would have been meaningless.
---Warwick on 11/6/14


//..in response to "what is the real gospel blog", "Jesus never said that He was going to send someone to the Gentiles." He taught that there was one Way, one road, one birth into His Kingdom. He taught the keeping of the commandments and life thru abiding in His testimony. Jesus' eyewitness disciples learned by following Him and were educated in Truth. "He sent them out into the world (John 17:18) and to all nations (Matt 28:18-20) to preach and teach all that He had made known unto them.


barb, you contradict yourself. You say Jesus never send someone to the gentiles, then end that Jesus send the disciples out unto the world to all nations. The gospel was to be for everybody.
---Luke on 11/7/14


Just wanted to finnish, it here for me to say re:our brother and friend Strongaxe, I know too, much about Chemo it'better while at the hospital they can see if it properly, administer and his body reaction, for those who do not know much about it just want to let you know those NOT aware,be honest if they ask do you smoke, drink, use or have used drugs, any drugs our neighbor did not tell the truth, he mess with street drugs,gave him Chemo he died that night.Chemo is no joke I took it for yrs.for breast cancer.Thank God I am healed, alive thanks for your prayers!!
---Elena_9555 on 11/7/14


Micha9344, exactly. Jesus sent His disciples to ALL nations, Jews and Gentiles. He did not tell them to go only to the Jews because he was sending someone else to the Gentiles. I will go with what Jesus said.
---barb on 11/7/14


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Warwick,

Apart from having a headache on the plane coming over, the runs from eating goodness knows what, the air pollution at levels comparable to Beijing's on a bad day, rubbish piled up everywhere, traffic jams that ya just gotta see to believe, the skinniest chickens and ducks ya just gotta see to believe, being bored out of my skull visiting mall after mall of shop-til-ya-drop "heaven"....I'm doing "lumayan". But at least I still get a chuckle out of David's Watchtower imposed delusion they and only they go and evangelise (i.e. I never recently met Watchtowerites here and at home, which is ironic given the JW brag that they are expanding and are the only ones visibly doing God's work).
---marc on 11/6/14


Michael e?

Act 15:7-11..Peter...said to them, "...God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel. And God...bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us. and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."

1 Corinthians 15:1-12...whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
---aka on 11/6/14


Trav, you said this about me:

\\You claim to be a follower of the Last Adam...but, with hand picked liberated ideals of "today".\\

Please tell me what my "hand picked liberated ideals of 'today'" are, if you would be so kind.

That is, if you can do it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/6/14


Jerry quoted a liberal: "If you are trying to prove your heart is in the right place - it isn't."

Here in Australia it is said that the Left are all about "seeming, and not doing". For liberals/Left it's all about "seeming" caring, (merely for political gain). "Doing" doesn't matter to liberals because they simply don't care when their priority is all about political gain.

Leon, you always quote scripture out of context. That will never help you.
BTW, regarding your accusation against me, I based my quote of you on what you said in your post 11/2/14. Perhaps you should clarify your position as your not making any sense, again.
---Haz27 on 11/6/14


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/Jesus never said that He was going to send someone to the Gentiles.\-barb on 11/6/14
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations...
Unless one doesn't consider "Gentiles" to be at least part of "all nations", scripture and barb are conflicting.
I choose scripture.
---micha9344 on 11/6/14


...to "project a post turtle doctrine", whatever that is?
---Warwick on 11/5/14

Its a joke here. "When a turtle is found on top of a fence post".
"You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, he's elevated beyond his ability to function, and you just Wonder what kind of person would put him up there to begin with."
You made a quoting error...I caught it. I forgive it. You are man. Forgive me the same. (If I ever make one...ha. A Joke OK?)
Ecc 8:17 ...because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it, yea further, though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.
---Trav on 11/6/14


Aka, in response to "what is the real gospel blog", Jesus never said that He was going to send someone to the Gentiles. He taught that there was one Way, one road, one birth into His Kingdom. He taught the keeping of the commandments and life thru abiding in His testimony. Jesus' eyewitness disciples learned by following Him and were educated in Truth. He sent them out into the world (John 17:18) and to all nations (Matt 28:18-20) to preach and teach all that He had made known unto them.

There is only one way to salvation and it'S the same way as given to Israel. Israel failed to live, learn and share God's word but the way is still open to them although they are no longer God's Kingdom on earth. Matt 21:42-44.
---barb on 11/6/14


Warwick, ...What bothers me is that when anyone disagrees with you on any point, the same answer is given..."those who disagree believe in evolution".
---kathr4453 on 11/6/14

Opportunity to state, I personally negate evolution. Are no witnesses for it. Biblical or scientific.
Do believe in an older earth, it is scriptural, if hidden.
GOD could create in a second? Why not a second or 24 seconds?
Gen 2:4, days are called "generations" an collective as a day.
As per 2Peter 3:8...one day as thousand years...
Scriptural...changing nothing except contentions, putting to rest non witness arguments over evolution, fossils, petroleum, Grand Canyon and all controversy's doctrinal and otherwise.
---Trav on 11/6/14


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Trav, dreams ... out of context definition of erets. He refuses to accept that words are defined by context.
---Warwick on 11/5/14

Understand you well, being the blindest of blind myself when young. Knowing you a lot better last few days, have a turned compassion for your planted, if unseeing defense. Will battle trav, restraining disgusted hurtful rebukes, to the unseeing.
Regarding context, it is your teaspoon of 0 context vs a scriptural lake of 1,712 contextual uses against your Opinion/doctrine.
When you must, add too, take away, doctor, create incredible situ's, slur,etc, to defend a doctrine?? Its past time to examine it.
All witnesses from beginning to end enlighten searchers but, can't those choosing...
---Trav on 11/6/14


Michael e...let's continue

//Same message? How can it be spoken and kept secret?//

Evidently, jesus spoke to his apostles often right in front of the pharisees. Pharisees still did not get it. I guess you have to have ears to hear or what is spoken remains a secret.


1 Corinthians 15:11-12 KJV

Therefore whether it were I or they [others above this verse including 12 apostles], so we preach, and so ye believed.
---aka on 11/6/14


Marc, halo apa kabar? Semoga semuanya baik baik saja
---Warwick on 11/6/14


Warwick, although I believe the whole earth was flooded, I'm having a hard time seeing how fossil records have a different outcome based on the whole world flooding or just local. I have heard many believe it was local, yet do not believe in evolution.

What bothers me is that when anyone disagrees with you on any point, the same answer is given......."those who disagree believe in evolution".

Whether one believes in a local or world flood does not CHANGE the carbon dating of anything.
---kathr4453 on 11/6/14


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Warwick, you have being very honest in your answers. I really believe as you that once a person takes one small step the wrong way, then they will eventually continue going that way and will fight for their believes, but not by showing Scripture that they are right, but by attacking the person personally. Scripture goes out the door and all they do is cheat God of some of His glory. You have done a great job Warwick, thank you for all you do in the name of the Lord.
---Luke on 11/6/14


Luke, thanks for your comments. Trav, dreams up some strange things.

As regards the flood he insists he has posted many proofs of the flood being local but in fact has based his false claim on an out of context definition of erets. He refuses to accept that words are defined by context. The local flood idea is the natural flow-on belief of those who have applied long ages/evolution to Scripture. The long ages belief necessarily places the fossil record as a history of life and death for millions of years before man arrived on the scene. Its record of death, disease and suffering is in conflict with Scripture which says death, disease and suffering are a consequence of Adam's sin.
---Warwick on 11/5/14


Aka, your Indo was almost there. Rather than "terbaik" it should be "paling keras" (although grammatically it could be 'terkeras'), as in 'loudest' not 'best'.
---marc on 11/5/14


Trav, It is ironic that you admit you may be in error (i.e. wrong) regarding me ever being a JW, and then call me "Dishonest." In reality, I have never been JW, and have never said so (on these pages or elsewhere) that I once was. I know you made the whole story up. Nothing new there!

Though your writing is jumbled I think you are accusing me of misquoting a scientist, to "project a post turtle doctrine", whatever that is? Just like your JW comments you have not one shred of evidence that I have ever misquoted anyone. Had I done so you would have pounced, but you didnt because you had nothing upon which to pounce.
---Warwick on 11/5/14


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It does seem poison to some though?-Trav on 11/5/14
Here's some morsels...
2Co 2:15-17 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death, and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
---micha9344 on 11/5/14


Aka: I recommend you both stop drinking the confusion flavored kool aide.
---Leon on 11/4/14

I'm thriving on the "Cool Aid". Barbequing some steaks...all invited. It does seem poison to some though? Milk available upon request or protest.
1Co_9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God, are become such as have need of milk, not of strong meat.
Heb_5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: ..
---Trav on 11/5/14


Trav, Firstly you have never posted anything which shows I have misquoted anyone.
---Warwick on 11/4/14

Dishonest, yourself even with yourself. It's posted... in the anals of CN on a scientist you quoted. You didn't think anyone would google. But, I did. I verified for me you will hide/shade a truth to project a post turtle doctrine.
You lost credibility with me then, and years ago with your "hero in your own mind" pulpit venom.
It's Possible...I was in error on you claiming JW membership but, then just have your word.
Pro_15:25 The LORD will destroy the house of the proud: but he will establish the border of the widow.
(The widow is established)
---Trav on 11/5/14


Warwick, you are correct. I have seen where he did say you were a JW. I have seen almost all of your answers and not once do I remember you ever saying you were a J.W. Also, he did not answer the questions to the flood. But in that point, many don't answer to the proof we give, they just go on and on talking about many things but never really answering the passages one gives.
---Luke on 11/5/14


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Marc

hope this is not nonsensical:

Dia yang tertawa terakhir tertawa terbaik
---aka on 11/5/14


David,

I've a degree in Indonesian and married an Indonesian with BA, MA and PhD in languages who teaches Indonesian at 2 universities. You present as DUMB (my wife's comment) writing the meaningless "Pembohong pembohong, celana di atas api". Your inept methodology had us laughing.

Your mistranslation reminds me of the comical New World Mistranslation.

I was surprised your Indo JW believed in a big and small god. This admission comes from holding people accountable in face-to-face meetings, not allowing sidetracking conversation, partial quoting and lying.

David, throw this one into your on-line translator:

Bodoh Tak Dapat Diajar, Pandai Tak Dapat Mengajar
---marc on 11/4/14


trav..the image and likeness of Elohim is family. What was the first thing attacked?..among everything being watered down now, where is the greatest attack? family...
---aka on 11/4/14

Aye matey. Good stuff. Pattern... GOD's marriage, etc, etc. Pattern is all there. You broadened mine today, in the most simple, logical, allegorical and spiritual
"family way". Thanks.

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, (aka) according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,
---Trav on 11/4/14


Trav, concerning your rant on the Who is the Archangel Michael blog you continue to tell lies about me.

Firstly you have never posted anything which shows I have misquoted anyone.

Secondly I have never been a JW, and have never posted any such nonsense.

Thirdly you say you have posted proof that Noah's flood was local but when challenged cannot point to anything.

You accuse me of misquoting, being a JW, and being a fool for believing in the world-wide flood but cannot demonstrate the proof of any of these errors of yours. This by definition makes you dishonest.
---Warwick on 11/4/14


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trav..the image and likeness of Elohim is family. What was the first thing attacked?..among everything being watered down now, where is the greatest attack? family.
woman comes from var of wifman (man's wife). womb man is a popular misconception (ironic..eh?). Wambe(stomach m/f)is the root for womb.

i cannot help but see connections where others don't, like fruitfulness and e.g. jonah 4 all and Eph_4:26..witness.

leon, i am sorry, but i do not understand what math has to do with this discussion. i've encountered you before, watched your interaction with others. I recommend that you start drinking from the well of Living Water and ask the Lord for understanding of fruitful behavior. Sarcasm masked by humor is not one of the nine.
---aka on 11/4/14


//not trying to instigate contention debate// trav

i don't take it that way. Gen 1-3 is the basic set up to EVERYTHING and it is chalk full of possibilities, scenarios. there is so much discussion that i could have with a few here, but there is too much cross-fire and non-nonsensical behaviors here...page 1

thanks, Leon for cementing my point.."Leon,i appreciate your style.." Sometimes, i say it best when i say nothing at all. from another blog...//Hi Leon. I see you still haven't changed a bit with your characteristic aggressive rants..I hadn't commented on your posts as I have limited time for forums hence I only had time to respond to..whose style of debate is much more civilized than your style.// -Haz27
---aka on 11/4/14


Aka: It appears you & at least one other person on this blog repeatedly flunked basic math. I recommend you both stop drinking the confusion flavored kool aide.
---Leon on 11/4/14


...If God is spirit and we are in his exact image, then why do we have flesh?
Womb man is not the etymology of woman. Womb man is the product of fertility but not of fruitfulness.
---aka on 11/3/14

Keep digging. Revisited based on what you are chipping at. I find possible two creations of male, female. Open minded in truth either way. Gen 1 male and female, with Adam and Eve following in Gen 2 to till the earth, having the Spirit of GOD breathed into them. Governors/caretakers, of a sort. Adam is not recorded giving Cain a daughter to go and build a city with. Etc, in multiplies.
Reply is not necessary and not trying to instigate contention debate just seen a glint in your digging for "treasures" i.e.,(Truth).
---Trav on 11/4/14


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.. was high on the God-given list of priorities for A & E.---Leon

Being fruitful was higher as it preceded multiplying. In disobedience a & e multiplied before they were fruitful.

Call it what you want...squares and rounds. Scripture calls it hidden treasures.

In our likeness and image...

I look in a mirror...it is an image. a statue of you is a likeness of you. But is it exactly the same? Then, to what degree is our likeness to God?

If God is spirit and we are in his exact image, then why do we have flesh?

Womb man is not the etymology of woman. Womb man is the product of fertility but not of fruitfulness.
---aka on 11/3/14


Gee Aka, I didn't mean to bruise your ego! The Bible says Adam & Eve were not just male & female, but a MAN & a WOMAN. Maybe God "assumed" by the time He published the creation story, etc., we would've had it down real good in our understanding that a MAN is a MAN & a WOMAN is a WOMAN. So, we really shouldn't be having a contest over the matter. Should we?

Suck it up Aka & get over it, please. It is what it is! :(
---Leon on 11/3/14


leon,i appreciate your style. when someones assumes, show verses, when someone shows verses, make assumptions, when someone says allegory, go literal, when someone says literal, go allegorical.. don't let others make logical assumptions when they are not yours, and make assumption even if they go against logic. but, when all fails, give a smiley face and insult in the same sentence.

how many times have you said in your life about a legally or physically grown persons, "awwww, but they are just kids."? do you really believe a physically full woman is always a fully matured woman?

the beginning of the BoC was established in the Garden of Eden. from where do you think spots and wrinkles originated?
---aka on 11/3/14


"...the command was to be fruitful & multiply. perhaps, by "fruitful", God was talking about the spiritual fruit in Galatians and then multiply. be matured (fruitful) & multiply."
---aka on 11/3/14


Aka: You're trying to square peg a round hole. :) Scripture (Galatians) speaks of spiritual fruit as pertains to a population of Christians (Body of Christ ~ the Church).

When God told A & E to be fruitful & multiply, the human race was one plus one (two). There was no Body of Christ (Church) in the Garden of Eden.

God wanted A & E to populate the earth. Directly below obeying God, multiplying (making children) was high on the God-given list of priorities for A & E.
---Leon on 11/3/14


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/the bible gives us no clue as to how long Adam was alone before He made Eve therefore that is not for us to know or guess.\-Rita_H on 11/2/14
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
No clue here.
Eve was made on day 6, just as Adam.
There is no indication that Satan waited years, months, or even weeks to deceive.
Patience is a godly virtue.
---micha9344 on 11/3/14


Fact: Eve was made a fully grown woman. ---Leon on 11/2/14

i think it is safe to say [assume] that neither adam or eve were fully matured even though they were physically grown. not a man and woman...but a boy and girl with mature body parts...---aka on 11/3/14

Aka: That's not what the Bible says.

FACT: "So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the MAN, and he slept, then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a WOMAN [womb man] the rib which He had taken from the MAN, and brought her to the MAN." (G2:21-22)
---Leon on 11/3/14


"Fact: Eve was made a fully grown woman. ---Leon on 11/2/14

when she had seth...she was. when she had cain and abel, [it's] not necessarily true...[it's] safe to say [assume?]...neither adam or eve were fully matured even though they were physically grown. not a man & woman... but a boy & girl with mature body parts.... [??!!!]---aka on 11/3/14

FACTS: "And God said, Let us make MAN in our image, after our likeness...So God created MAN in his own image, in the image of God created he him, MALE & FEMALE CREATED HE THEM...God said unto them, BE FRUITFUL, & MULTIPLY..."(G1:26-28. KJV)
---Leon on 11/3/14


Fact: Eve was made a fully grown woman. ---Leon on 11/2/14

when she had seth, physically she was. when she had cain and abel, it is not necessarily true. a young 'tween can have babies.

i think it is safe to say that neither adam or eve were fully matured even though they were physically grown. not a man and woman...but a boy and girl with mature body parts.

the command was to be fruitful and multiply. perhaps, by "fruitful", God was talking about the spiritual fruit in Galatians and then multiply.

be matured (fruitful) and multiply.
---aka on 11/3/14


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Thank you very much Elena. May God truly bless your studies. I am no bible student either. I should read and study it much more than I do and, with God's help, I will do that more. It becomes easier to do many things once retired from work and children now all grown.
---Rita_H on 11/2/14


Rita cont'd 1: The statement, "It is not good..." (G2:18) is God TELLING US He knows it's not good so His action is required. Question: How long did God let the matter remain "not good" before He acted. Did He wait 5, 10, 20, 50, 100...years before making Eve? Really?! Since God was making His creation in a matter of "days", can we deductively reason Eve was made within "days" of Adam?
---Leon on 11/2/14


Rita: Why are you so quick to say the things that aren't spelled out FOR YOU "aren't for US to know"? Where did you get that notion? :) It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. Jesus said, "...Seek & you will find." (Matt. 7:7-8)

Bible fact: Adam was 130 years old when he sired Seth, so we know, from G5:3, Eve had to have been created before 130 years. Fact: Eve was made a fully grown woman. Question: How long did it take for God to realize it wasn't good for man to be alone? Answer: God didn't have to realize (become fully aware of) nothing since He knows all things (is Omniscient).
---Leon on 11/2/14


Hello,RitaH, so good to see you again.smiles, I stand corrected..ha ha
yes, I did take it that way, to be fully honest,yes..it seemed to me.You know I am not a bible scholar but, it always been a "clift hanger" in my mind.It seem to me, they had no carnal knowledge, but, the evil one had way more knowledge,as they were like enticed to do what they probably wouldn't have done if not
for Satan!!
Love of Jesus!
---Elena_9555 on 11/2/14


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Rita cont'd 2: The Bible says Eve was the "mother of all living" while she & Adam lived in the Garden, i.e., she birthed & raised children. Cain & Abel were born outside of the Garden. Can we assume Cain & Abel weren't infants when Cain murdered Abel? Were they at least teenagers? There was a significant interval of time (years) between God making Eve & Abel's murder, & the amount of time leading up to Seth's birth. Deductive reasoning, based on what the Bible says, concludes it was 130 years.

I really don't expect you to agree with me, but I do hope to encourage you to SEEK truth from God's word (the Bible).
---Leon on 11/2/14


Elena, the bible gives us no clue as to how long Adam was alone before He made Eve therefore that is not for us to know or guess. You seem to suggest that the first sin was Adam having s*x with Eve without God's permission. I don't see that because God said "Be fruitful, and multiply". He gave the instruction and they obviously obeyed.

Having s*x meant that they listened to God - that was not sinful. Listening to Satan IS sinful and they did that also, with devastating consequences.
---Rita_H on 11/2/14


Hello chria9396. Yes, considering that there are no specific #'s associated with the word "shall" the definition of the word, as we know it in whatever language we speak, can be applied without altering any message containing it. "Shall" can be defined and applied, in one of two ways, depending on who's speaking. Concerning Holiness, if 'I' say I shall be holy, then I believe "shall" should be defined as I "Plan to, intend to, or expect to." However, If 'Father' says You shall be holy, again, I believe, "shall" should be defined as You "are determined to, or definitely will" be. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to the post.
---joseph on 11/1/14


Hello,Cnt.permit I would to comment re:blogg"Who sinned 1st Adam or Eve? Can imagine, Adam was alone until God made Eve, so can you imagine, a man with only
animals, nature ..then God'makes "woman" Adam was love struck like anyone, else would've
been, I believe they had human
feellings never thought much about right or wrong.
emotions run rampant what' wrong, can seem.alright..it'called "the first sin!"
Love of Jesus!
---Elena_9555 on 11/1/14


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Cont, from sanctified blog, re: replies, joseph thanks for editing. wondered about a verse or 2 but had already searched:.1 Pet 1:16

Lev 20:7,26,Levi 11:44,45
appreciate the rest.






Also appreciate use of word declaration compared to command, admonishment, request.

Noticed bold words/phrases, such as will. Brought to mind use of shall in some instances.

When "shall" concerns taught rules to follow,
or considered as promise or as declaration

shall in strongs. very many uses, No specific # or #s associated with it, but rather, the numbers assigned seemed to have more to do with the word or few words/phrase following.
---chria9396 on 10/31/14


Happy Halloween!
---learner2 on 10/31/14


Posting on Christian Blogs is like tossing a pebble into the ocean -- the words spread to many minds with many lessons and reactions, influencing many decisions and much learning. Good place to have available!
---Geraldine on 10/30/14


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