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The Anything Blog

Moderator, can we have an anything blog...no dates...no numbers? It can used to continue or anything.

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 ---aka on 11/14/14
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God 'allows' us the freedom to do thing in ways other than God's ways. That is why some things are difficult to understand. Allowing and condoning are not the same thing. If He did not allow us to go the wrong way then we'd be no different from robots.
---Rita_H on 11/25/14


LEON:
//But, why God would give David his mother inlaw & Saul's unauthorized mistress to be his wives is beyond me, especially since God's authorized plan of "one man & one woman" hadn't changed.//
Have you prayed before that God should help you to surrender to His will.
This is one of the cases whereby you have to do this.
The polygamous homes of Jacob & David had God's hand in them.
If God hated polygamy for all, HE would not have allowed them to have it.
---Adetunji on 11/25/14


I pray God will send someone into your life that can plainly teach you God's truth. I pray your understanding will change from wrong, self-centered, opinions & become rooted in what the Bible actually says.
---Leon on 11/25/14


/If God hated polygamy for all, HE would not have allowed them to have it.\-Adetunji on 11/25/14
This is an erroneous statement.
If God hated (fill in the blank), He would not have allowed them to have it.
We know many things that God called "abominations" that He allowed them to have.
It is not for our good, but God works it for our good.
Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me, [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.
1Co 6:12, 10:23
God used murderers, false gods, harlots, polygamists, and many others to bring about his will.
He does not condone the actions, but He uses the corrupt actions of man for His glory.
---micha9344 on 11/25/14


LEON:
//But, why God would give David his mother inlaw & Saul's unauthorized mistress to be his wives is beyond me, especially since God's authorized plan of "one man & one woman" hadn't changed.//
Have you prayed before that God should help you to surrender to His will.
This is one of the cases whereby you have to do this.
The polygamous homes of Jacob & David had God's hand in them.
If God hated polygamy for all, HE would not have allowed them to have it.
---Adetunji on 11/25/14


Leon: as a p.s. I do agree that "Into thy bosom" [does mean any object, i:e the kingdom & geographical nation in this case] given into David's "bosom", [was] i.e., under his care and protection.
---Leon on 11/22/14"

My previous post, that may have been percieved are arguing yours, was concerning a person being placed in another person's "bosom".
---josef on 11/24/14




SBL-

Is anyone at the SBL (Society of Biblical Literature) annual meeting in San Diego?

If you'd like, contact me here on CN, (or privately for those who do so on CN). If you're free and would like to meet for coffee (or vino) in beautiful SD...let me know.
---scott on 11/24/14


As concerning the meaning of "into thy bosom" I personally agree with the on line Strong's concordance insert concerning the word bosom. When referencing "the bosom of a person it is either in reference to a loving embrace", of a true friend or mother for example. 1 Kings 1:2 Or to laying in "a consorts bosom. Mic 7:5 Hence it is applied to intimate conjugal love." Gen 16:5>2 Sam 12:8
---josef on 11/23/14


Father created the concept and purpose of marriage, and the governing principle of one man, and one woman, becoming one flesh. Which I understand references the consummation of the proclaimation of the man as having chosen his wife, establishing a new family unit. Mark 10 6-9 Which constitutes a marriage. However, man has instituted laws to govern it, to protect both the man and the woman. We are to obey the laws of the land, period. That, in combination with procreation, is our Father's desire for marriage. What according to the bible distinguishes the wife from the concubine? I would answer, the wife did not submit herself to be entered until she was asked to be a wife, and had that request witnessed by her father. The concubine, did not.
---Josef on 11/23/14


Josef: Obviously, you've made up your mind (formed a hard opinion) in the matter. But, why God would give David his mother inlaw & Saul's unauthorized mistress to be his wives is beyond me, especially since God's authorized plan of "one man & one woman" hadn't changed.

What's important is that we see marriage in Bible context. Fact, Saul & David were definitely in violation of God's "one man, one woman" marriage commandment.

I believe God, by His mercifully permissive will, let Saul & David, etc., disobey & with dire consequences have multiple wives. Yet, it was never (even to this day) God's plan for man to have more than one wife at a time. That's what the Bible shows from Gen.-Rev.
---Leon on 11/23/14


Cliff, I do not know of a 100% correct Bible translation.

I have seen the list of those who translated the NWT and there was not one accredited Bible scholar on the list.
---Warwick on 11/23/14




Leon, The Father's rebuke of David through Nathan addressed what he had done concerning Uriah and Bathsheba. Therefore, in my view, wives, Uriah's, Saul's, and David's, are the subject. My point is although David had already chosen a wife, Father gave him the 'wives' ('ishshah) of Saul without him ever asking. ''Ishshah" is the same word used in verse 11 of that same chapter when referencing David's wives. Who where those wives,and where did they come from? David only chose two, Michal, Sauls daughter, and Bathsheba. Yes, I know Ishsah can also mean simply female, or woman. However in this context it means wife. David's error concerning wives, was taking the sole wife of another.
---josef on 11/22/14


Scott, more distort than "review."

As I've said translations which do not contain 'me' at John 14:14 come from older texts which do not have 'me.' In translating it this way they are consistent with their texts. Better texts have since been found e.g. that upon which the KIT is based. However the WTS pick and choose whatever text appears to support their Jesus is not God prejudice. Consistent only in deception.

At John 14:14 Jesus is talking of the near future when He will be with the Father. He says they then may pray to Him. There is therefore no contradiction with this verse and Matthew 6:9 or John 15:16,16:23 because both the Son and The Father, in heaven, as Gill says are equally the object of prayer
---Warwick on 11/22/14


Correction to post. "Who where those wives,and where did they come from? David only chose two, Michal, Saul's daughter, and Bathsheba. " That was a mistake. He also chose, out of compassion, Abigail and Ahinoam of Jezreel as wives after "the LORD smote Nabal," and Saul had given the true love of his life, Michal, to another. 1 Samuel 25:40-44 So I acknowledge that these could have been, exclusively, the wives referred to in 12:11 However, I must say that I believe that Saul's former wives were also included in the statement. Could I yet be mistaken? Yes, of course, I am as fallible, and as limited in my understanding, as any other. Therefore "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."
---josef on 11/23/14


"...I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul, And I gave thee thy master's house, & thy master's 'wives' [plural] into thy bosom..." 2Sa 12:7,8---josef on 11/21/14

Josef: You think that means God gave Saul's "wives" [WOMEN] to David to be his wives? The Bible says Saul had a wife named Ahinoam. She was the mother of Jonathan (David's best friend) & Michal (David's first wife). That means she was David's mother inlaw! Saul's "OTHER WOMAN" was his paramour (mistress, concubine) Rizpah. Both of these women were likely old enough to be David's mother.

"Into thy bosom" really means they were given into David's care, i.e., under his protection.
---Leon on 11/22/14


josef,

thanks we have established this.

there are reasons and there are repercussions. God allowed (granted) divorce too. God granted Saul too. Why? It was because of man's request not God's.

Jesus said that divorce was because of man's hardness. God gave the people Saul because that is what they wanted. God is not as tyrant. he wants us to learn.

Anyway, God never actually stated why he allowed (not condoned) polygamy. but, jesus told us that it was not this way in the beginning and he is coming for his bride [singular].
---aka on 11/22/14


Definition of dishonesty: JWism/Scott the Watchtowerite/someone facing a difficult argument, avoids it, then responds to the part he can "answer".

Your implying the genitive necessarily entails the subject being part of the class (i.e. Jesus is part of creation) question begs, is false and misunderstands the genitive case's complexity.

Was Paul's purpose in Colossians 1 to argue Jesus is a creature? As usual, you avoid context. The genitive 'creation's firstborn' (there's no Greek word for 'of'!), when the verses 13-18 are taken into account, cannot mean Jesus is a created being because Paul details functions belonging to God which he applies to Christ e.g. "all things were created BY him". Explain, Scott.
---Marc on 11/22/14


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"Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed 'thee' [David] king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul, And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's 'wives' [plural] into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah, and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." 2Sa 12:7,8
---josef on 11/21/14


Thanks Micha, not for agreeing with me, but for holding fast to what Scripture says! :)
---Leon on 11/21/14


Trav: When we repent of sin, we're forgiven. But, there's always consequences to pay for sin(s) & God always chastens (disciplines) His children.

As it is with us today, so it was with the Bible people, i.e., judges, prophets, apostles, kings & commoners alike. From A & E, throughout the entire Bible, calamity is shown to fall upon people of God who sinned against Him. Sometimes the punishment was swift. At other times it was very slow coming, but came nonetheless.

Again, from the beginning, it was never God's intent for man to have more than one wife. For us to go against & practice what isn't God approved is SIN regardless of how anyone "feels" about & claims it as a cultural norm.
---Leon on 11/20/14


Please don't think that because God permits something He must've approved of it.
---Leon on 11/19/14

I don't support Polygamy or the problems associated with Polygamy.
Scripture doesn't verify absolutes on polygamy, with certain men.
GOD approved David...through all his forgiven sins...even as you/we hope to be approved.
Polygamy was never ascribed to David as a sin. Perhaps because he was a King. A King of Israel. His heart is found to be perfect with GOD.
1Ki_11:4 ... and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
---Trav on 11/20/14


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//(3) About missing the mark (a very wide topic):// Adetunji

Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is WIDE and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many...
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

//Extending this law to others is a mental-human-addition to God's laws.//

and divorce is a corporal-human subtraction from god's law. why did god "allow" divorce? jesus said hardness of MAN'S hearts.

God used it. why? because the people that he was putting forth his will called for it. they called for saul too.
---aka on 11/20/14


/...i just know Mat 19:4-6. and jesus will return for his bride (not brides).
... polygamy robs me of the chance to become one with whom god gave me.\-aka on 11/19/14
God made for Adam ONE WIFE. That's God's will.-Leon on 11/19/14
-I agree.
Titus 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Lev 21:13 And he shall take a wife in her virginity.
-I don't think adejunti understands the context and culture surrounding these verses.
1st, Lev 21 does not say "only", but does imply it. Therefore, demands of verses that explicitly say "one" or "only one" are hypocritical.
The same implication can be made of Adam and Eve as Leon has shown.
---micha9344 on 11/20/14


(1) So, do you agree that only priests Lev.21 and church leaders Titus 1 are restricted by letters in the Bible to be monogamous?
Extending this law to others is a mental-human-addition to God's laws.
(2) That others were given allowance to raise children from more than 1 wife/woman either through specified inheritance laws or spoils of war or desire Exodus 21:10-11, Deut.21:15-17.
(3) About missing the mark (a very wide topic):
(a) God is not bound by the laws HE has made for man.
His will superceeds the laws HE has given to men.
(b) God's will does amend God's laws specifically (not generally) for God's purposes to be fulfilled, e.g. Joseph married a non-Hebrew Gen.41:45, Moses married a non-Hebrew Num.12:1, >> # 1
---Adetunji on 11/20/14


...i just know Mat 19:4-6. and jesus will return for his bride (not brides).
... polygamy robs me of the chance to become one with whom god gave me.
---aka on 11/19/14

Nicely put. Your post is intimate of both of Men and GOD.
We have one wife...to be one with the one. GOD only had one wife, which was a collective, 12 of Israel. Jer 3:14,3:20, Isa 54:5.
GOD put them away but, promised remarriage. Isa 62:4, Hos 2:16, Hos 2:20 etc, + Mat_25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
(Symbolically: Lamp is the word, Oil is the spirit of GOD)
Though 5 or 10 is multiple, they are collective as one...to a King / GOD.
---Trav on 11/20/14


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... from scripture[:]
(1) where God blamed... Abraham, Jacob...David for having more than 1 wife [ & ] or woman raising children for them.
(2) where [is] polygamy called sin for everyone?...
---Adetunji on 11/19/14


Please don't think that because God permits something He must've approved of it. God waited a long time before destroying the evil world by flood. He waited for quite some time before confusing the language of evil people at Babel, etc. Sodom & Gomorrah worked evil for years before being destroyed. The firey end of the world & destruction of evil (sinful) people will come. Whatever is shown to be sin in the Bible is TABOO FOR EVERYONE!

God made for Adam ONE WIFE. That's God's will.
---Leon on 11/19/14


Adetunji, the Scriptures I gave from Genesis and Mark 10:6 clearly show that God's plan for marriage was one man for one woman.

The question you have avoided answering is that you provide Scriptures which show that God approved of polygamy. Please answer!

That God continued to use sinners, even foreign kings, to achieve His ends, gives no support to the idea that God approved of their sins. Do you imagine, that having given the command against adultery that God approved of David's adultery, just because he was King?
---Warwick on 11/19/14


---Adetunji on 11/19/14

let me put my words in a different manner and please quit lumping me in with presuppositions. sin is generally defined in two ways in the bible: trangression (offence) and missing (the mark). i use sin for polygamy in the latter sense. there is opportunity cost (repurcussions) for everything we do and don't do. again, 1Co_6:12, 1Co_10:23. .

i just know Mat 19:4-6. and jesus will return for his bride (not brides).

i never said anything about forced mores. people can do what they want. polygamy robs me of the chance to become one with whom god gave me.
---aka on 11/19/14


LEON, WARWICK:

Kindly show us from scripture,
(1) where God blamed Father Abraham, Jacob, King David for having more than 1 wife and or woman raising children for them.
(2) where polygamy was called sin for everyone?
(3) that God withdrew His hand from the polygamous family of Jacob & David?
(4) that the family of Boaz was monogamous?
(5) that the monogamous family of Isaac was free from feud and descendants problems?
(6) that the monogamous family of Adam & Eve was free from sibling problems?
---Adetunji on 11/19/14


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"Adetunji, the request was to provide Scripture showing God approved of anyone's polygamy. That they were sinners goes without saying, because we all are, but where does Scripture say God approved of their sin?"
---Warwick on 11/19/14


Plain & simple, Scripture shows the consequential results of polygamy's affect on the families of the patriarchs as well as Kings David & Solomon. Those same consequentially negative affects of ancient polygamy are yet being felt in the world today (especially in Africa & the Middle East). As it was in the Bible, ancient family feuds/disputes (Ishamaelites & Edomites vs. Israelites) over land inheritance still rages on thanks to the UNAPPPROVED practice of polygamy.
---Leon on 11/19/14


To Bro.Adetunji, you are so correct..wow!! It never came to.my mind, on this subject but, when get down to it...I certainly, agree..better polygamy women alone,struggle so hard,it not easy but, when you mention it like a light went off in my head...he certainly has a point the sodomites as some would say have hedge way in modernan western countries like USA...good point my bro.Adetunji !!!
Love of Jesus!!
---Elena_9555 on 11/19/14


Adetunji, the request was to provide Scripture showing God approved of anyone's polygamy. That they were sinners goes without saying, because we all are, but where does Scripture say God approved of their sin?
---Warwick on 11/19/14


Aka: //in EVERY case, there are repercussions to what is "allowed."//

Obviously so.
He who has more, has some more advantages and maintenance problems naturally.
I am also not polygamy-minded, but if God did not forbid it for all persons, why do we try to enforce monogamy on all.
With God's help, I stopped drinking alcohol.
If God now gives me power over some other persons, should I influence/convince them to shun alcohol or force them not to drink alcohol?
---Adetunji on 11/19/14


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... God's "approval" for sin, you must have skipped the repercussions for those actions.
1.Hagar was abe/sarah's solution..not God's. ...
---aka on 11/18/14

Ahhh, true that on Hagar, a sub, handmaid/concubine never a wife.
Jacob never was discouraged by GOD for multiple wives / handmaids. Rather, he authorized Jacob, in that blessings come through this line of 12, collectively Jacob/Israel.
Nor David,who had other wives, Bathsheba being the error.(human)
Below, discourages Solomon's type of multiplying wives. But, David didn't do as Solomon.
Deu 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
---Trav on 11/18/14


...These were persons who were very close in spirit & mind to God.
If they were doing what God hates by having more than 1 wife at a time, God would have told them.
[May God save us from the demonic hypocrisy of contemporary governments who outlaws polygamy but promotes sodomy(abomination).]
---Adetunji on 11/18/14

Am not Polygamy minded personally. But, we see the same witnesses on Polygamy subject. 1Ki_11:4, defines Solomon and David differences.

Was a great comparison on governmental approval of dead end abominations.
Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
---Trav on 11/18/14


if any one of you want to stick with God's "approval" for sin, you must have skipped the repercussions for those actions.

1.Hagar was abe/sarah's solution..not God's. flesh v. spirit
2.there is countless repercussions to Jacob/israel flesh v. spirit
3.David once after god's heart went after flesh and one time killed to get it. flesh v. spirit

in EVERY case, there are repercussions to what is "allowed."

1Co_6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co_10:23... but all things edify not

Mat 19:4-6

Thank GOD he works through a few despite the few and not because of the few.
---aka on 11/18/14


C'mon Trav, ... give witnesses for where God says polygamy is approved by God.
---Warwick on 11/17/14

1.Father Abraham (until Hagar despised Sarah).
2.Jacob/Israel.
3.King David had up to 6 or more wives before the Bathsheba/Uriah incident.
4. Countless others through inheritance.

These were persons who were very close in spirit & mind to God.
If they were doing what God hates by having more than 1 wife at a time, God would have told them.
[May God save us from the demonic hypocrisy of contemporary governments who outlaws polygamy but promotes sodomy(abomination).]
---Adetunji on 11/18/14


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C'mon Trav, ... give witnesses for where God says polygamy is approved by God.
---Warwick on 11/17/14

Yom, Yom, Yom...Strongs H3117.
Nice little diversion you thing you've here. Anything to avoid "Sheep". And Num 7! Ha.
David a shepherd after GOD's own heart. Your jealousy is showing. Telling.
Scripture was posted. Jacob/Israel next. 1Ki_11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

You are not ready for meat,Yom, Yom
and pearls you trample.
Approve David?? Yes. 2Sa 22:51...and sheweth mercy to his anointed, unto David, to his seed for evermore.
---Trav on 11/18/14


Yes I have cluny. Commandments doctrines of men, Rev.17 vs 4 5 6, 3 persons godhead which has No parallel basis with The Word of God what so ever, but you's keep digging in the deep pit still trying to prove that which is Not. Even doctrines commandments of men, those that worship other dif gods buddha, hindu, moony etc. All these together makes More many. The atheist, agnostics, sexual perversions other etc makes Even More many, Matt.7 v 13. All these with other makes up the literal gates of hell, shall not prevail against the Acts Church of The Living God, which are few Matt.7 v 14. Manmade commandments doctrines, they sure are trying to prevail, but shall not prevail against the Acts Church.
---Lawrence on 11/18/14


Leon: //Adetunji. In one breath you seem to agree God's way is the best way regardless of what some people feel polygamy is okay. Yet, your views regarding God letting polygamy exist, for the good order of society, isn't found in the Bible. A widow who remarries isn't a polygamist.

What group are you in?//

The group I belong >> 1 that allows what God allows & 1 that condemns what God condemns.
If you are a Christian leader or belong to a group/nation that forbids polygamy Matt.18:18, monogamy is for you.
But if you are sure that in God's plan, you are like Jacob & your nation/group law allows it, then you can have polygamy, but be ready for extra problems it may bring.
---Adetunji on 11/18/14


C'mon Trav, you are the man who insists we must have witnesses for our views. I have given you the Scriptures which point out God planned one man for one woman-and you have no comment.

Then you give the David example as if his sin was approved by God. Please give witnesses for where God says polygamy is approved by God.

Did God approve of David's life? No and he wouldn't allow him to build God's temple because of David's lifestyle.

And while you are at it tell me if the days of Numbers 7:11-78 are everyday 24hr days. Stop running!
---Warwick on 11/17/14


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Trav, still you evade my question regarding Numbers ch. 7.
... but a reference to David being a polygamist.
Where does God approve...?
You are such a provider of Scriptures (often irrelevant to the point) ...
---Warwick on 11/17/14

Is it impossible for you to make your point in Numbers? Make it. "Yom", ate your days. Yom, has got your tongue as seen and will for eternity.
Where did GOD disapprove? King David was a man after GOD's own heart. GOD didn't punish him for multiple wives. 1Ki_11:4 ...his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
Show irrelevant scripture. If irrelevant to you...it's for sheep. Being the only reason for our dialogue anyway.
---Trav on 11/17/14


Aka, that Adam and Eve had children, was Gods command, (Genesis 1:28) and not incest. Siblings having children is only a problem when the genetic load of mutations (the result of the curse imposed upon creation by Adams sin) reached a level where such close marriage would almost certainly result in birth defects in the offspring. Adam and Eve were created "very good" (Genesis 1:31) without genetic defects therefore there was no problem, no incest. The law against closely related people marrying was not introduced until c1,800 years later when the results of Adam's sin had made such a practise dangerous.

There is not any Biblical evidence, let alone proof, that there were two Adams.
---Warwick on 11/17/14


"...I agree...monogamy is the best & ideal form of marriage...God permitted polygamy...for the good order of society[?]...[If] a... woman becomes a widow...God cares...for all & would prefer such to marry/remarry than to steal relationship[?] ...if government or society rules forbid polygamy, it must be respected if we have agreed to be members of such group[?]."
---Adetunji on 11/17/14


Adetunji. In one breath you seem to agree God's way is the best way regardless of what some people feel polygamy is okay. Yet, your views regarding God letting polygamy exist, for the good order of society, isn't found in the Bible. A widow who remarries isn't a polygamist.

What group are you in?
---Leon on 11/17/14


Trav, still you evade my question regarding Numbers ch. 7. You are obviously cornered by it.

I have backed up my comments on polygamy with specific and relevant Scriptures, including the words of Jesus. Your only answer is not Scripture which demonstrates a contrary point, but a reference to David being a polygamist. Where does God approve of this? David was also a murderer and adulterer does this make it right? "You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery" Exodus 20: 13,14.

You are such a provider of Scriptures (often irrelevant to the point) can you provide a Scripture showing God approves of polygamy?
---Warwick on 11/17/14


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I don't believe in a God that creates a system where we have to sin and then be held responsible later on.
---aka on 11/17/14

Gen 1 m/f.
Gen 6:1 it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 2, Sons of GOD
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Noah..perfect in his Generations.
Gen_6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Many things unknown at the beginning. Have primarily what we need though...in our "yom". (perpetually, presently, + season, ...)
---Trav on 11/17/14


Leon, Warwick:

(1) I agree that monogamy is the best & ideal form of marriage.
(2) only Priests and Church leaders (OT & NT) are commanded to have monogamy.Lev.21:7,13,14 Titus 1: 5-10.
(3) God permitted polygamy for others also for the good order of society as God hates fornication and adultery.
(4) In cases whereby a young woman becomes a widow (by war or illness) or women number explosion due to war. God cares/feels for all & would prefer such to marry/remarry than to steal relationship from many around Deut.5:5-10 21:10-17, 1Tim.5: 9-16.
(4) Having many lovers also generates STDs.
(5) But if government or society rules forbid polygamy, it must be respected if we have agreed to be members of such group.
---Adetunji on 11/17/14


"...I don't believe in a God that creates a system where we have to sin and then be held responsible later on."
---aka on 11/17/14


Great swelling, accusatory words aka! You presume too much about things of which you don't know about. Incest only became such when God said so in the laws He gave to Moses. Why? The answer is plain displayed in the Bible for anyone who has ears to hear & God's blessing to see the truth.

Polygamy is first practiced by Lamech, a descendant of the rebel & murderer Cain. Just like his father Cain he chose to go against God's will & do it his way.
---Leon on 11/17/14


//This of course is also convincing proof that our Creator Jesus knew that the man and the woman of Genesis 1:27, were one and the same as the man and woman of 2:24 who became one flesh. Therefore no two creations, no two created Adams!//

Then, why the argument about polygamy? Or any other OT sin?

If there is convincing proof that there was only one Adam created, then incest was required to progenate?

If that is true, then one could argue that the sin of polygamy was permitted by God to fulfill his will also.

I don't believe in a God that creates a system where we have to sin and then be held responsible later on.
---aka on 11/17/14


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BTW you are still ducking my Numbers ch. 7 question.
---Warwick on 11/16/14

I posted if you had a point you'd make it. You don't. "yom", yom.... has eaten your dark doctrine days.
I've never joined in yur kindergarten diversionary yes / no pablum games. Why would I start now?
Fearfully Disregarding specifics of my questions, i owe you nothing anyway, other than posted scriptures, rebuking you and pointing for others to seek more light through Christ and witnesses.

"12" days of the "12" princes. Twelve...found 165 times. You'd do better to seek on Twelve.
Luk_22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
---Trav on 11/17/14


To Ray, brother I am very sorry bout the horrible hurt, pain & all you went through, I had horrible husband ,too.
I say this to you in earnest,I cried when I read over how you were cruely hurt.I was a very hurt bitter woman at
one time, my husband broke my arm hand in several places, worse things after which I can not mention.He is dead, it over.I pray you will be comforted in knowing, there are even women who can understand.I do not judge you.I hope you will someday know how wonderfull the love of God can come and take way your hurt as you become whole & you can let go & be free fr the horrors of the past.May the Lord all mercifull, envelope you with love.Love of Jesus!
---Elena_9555 on 11/17/14


\\Wrong cluny, there is No scriptures pertain to the 3 persons godhead.\\

Yes, there are, and I have given some to you.

YOU, OTOH, have not explained how Rev 17:4-6 refer to the Trinity.

Would you do so, please?

Glory to Jesus Christ, Who is not the Father.
---Cluny on 11/17/14


That God created one woman for the one man Adam speaks against polygamy.
...who became one flesh.
---Warwick on 11/17/14

The only one here being fooled is yourself. Can't help you because, you fearfully choose blindness.
You do present opportunity's to encourage seekers to seek their own answers from GOD. Your answers being dead ended by your doctrines. Seen clearly when you "fearfully" avoid "specific" verses in scripture.
Mat_25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, ... and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
"Wives" is found 122 times. King David had multiples, as did others in his lineage.
You only prove you are bound by your doctrines of fear.
---Trav on 11/17/14


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That God created one woman for the one man Adam speaks against polygamy.

Mark 10:6-8 where Jesus speaks upon marriage (quoting from Genesis 1:27 and 2:24) is convincing proof that God intended, from the beginning, that marriage was to be one man with one woman. "But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh."

This of course is also convincing proof that our Creator Jesus knew that the man and the woman of Genesis 1:27, were one and the same as the man and woman of 2:24 who became one flesh. Therefore no two creations, no two created Adams!
---Warwick on 11/17/14


Ray, what you say here is YOUR experience of ONE woman. You insult all other women by assuming that we are all like that ONE.

You will have a truly miserable and bitter life if you continue thinking this way. You also seem to give the impression that ONLY women ever behave this way. There is a world of hurting women also, betrayed, abused, abandoned etc. Dwell on that thought for a moment please.
---Rita_H on 11/17/14


Imagine there's no heaven,it's easy if you try .No hell below us , above us only sky, imagine all the people ......Do I hear a violin ??
---1stcliff on 11/17/14


Wrong cluny, there is No scriptures pertain to the 3 persons godhead. Jesus was the Only & 1 person & God The Father dwelt in that fleshly body of Jesus Christ. You's still dig into the deep pit trying to prove that which is Not, & has No parallel basis with The Word of God what so ever. 3 persons godhead peoples Rev.17 vs 4 5 6 which are many. Matt.7 v 13, peoples choice.

Glory to God The Father which who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 11/17/14


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I wanted to write this as a reply to the guy that married a jezebel wife. I wanted especially to say to the ladies- You have no frigging CLUE on this subject. You most probably will never GET this subject matter. This is my story. I married a witch- a Jezebel if you would. What men cannot put into words is this- imagine a wife, who supposedly loves you to make certain the kids never talk to you. She convinces you through her manipulation that you have mental illness, when it was all her doing. Imagine having congestive heart failure, looking up and she is grinning about it- because she gave it to you- without her even touching you. Imagine living in the movie the Omen. You ladies will never get what true evil is- because you ladies
---Ray on 11/16/14


Trav, read 1 Corinthians 15:45 "Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam became a life-giving spirit." This shows that the first man (and you says his creation is covered in Genesis 1:26,27) was named "Adam."

Let us be clear about this: are you saying the second Adam you imagine was created in ch.2 is a different Adam? And both called "Adam"?

And was the wife of your imagined second Adam also named Eve? Then who are we all descended from Trav?

BTW you are still ducking my Numbers ch. 7 question.
---Warwick on 11/16/14


Leon, Have you considered joining the National Guard? They probably could use a good sniper !
---1stcliff on 11/16/14


Trav, you are now changing your 'tune.' You claimed there was the Adam created in Genesis ch.1, a second Adam created in ch.2, and Jesus, the last Adam.
---Warwick on 11/14/14

My original tune is shining a bright light on you denying specific scripture. You run and no one is chasing you...except scripture. It is far more simple to run to a truth than, lie climbing in another way.
Gen 1 is male and female. Gen 2 Adam and Eve. Gen 2 Adam to the New Covenant Testament Adam.

The covenant you couldn't find or was intolerable for you to answer.
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 11/16/14


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\\Cluny: Nothing I or anyone else could say would persuade a thickheaded person like you. The Bible speaks loudly to that fact as well.\\

In other words, you have NO OT scriptures against polygamy. I thought as much.

\\Do you suppose polygamy to be a good thing?\\

What you or I suppose has nothing to do with what God thinks.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/14


DAVID WITH MANY WIVES CONT'D: "\\However, the entire Bible (God's word) speaks loudly against polygamy.\\

Please give an OT reference that forbids polygamy, Leon.
If the entire Bible condemns it, there should be plenty of OT verses you can give us.
Glory to Jesus Christ!"
---Cluny on 11/15/14


Cluny: Nothing I or anyone else could say would persuade a thickheaded person like you. The Bible speaks loudly to that fact as well.

Do you suppose polygamy to be a good thing? If not, then it must be a bad thing in opposition to God's will.
---Leon on 11/15/14


\\Right cluny.
There's No mention of trinity in any scriptures\\

Wrong, Lawrence.

There are MANY mentions of the Trinity throughout the Bible...---Cluny on 11/15/14


Cluny: I agree with you regarding the Trinity even though the word isn't used in the Bible. The Bible amply supports the fact of One God represented by three distinct persons, i.e., Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

I couldn't help but notice you're having the same problem with Lawrence that I'm having with you regarding polygamy. Interesting! :)

Poor Cliff, he just howls at the moon refuses to accept reality.
---Leon on 11/16/14


aka, The word spirit is feminine in both Hebrew (ruach) and Aramaic, but neuter in Greek (pneuma).
Not to indicate that HS is either male or female .
Calling HS "she" or "It" does not sit well with evangelical fundamentalists , but they are happy to erroneously use "He" to give credence to the third member of the godhead being male !
Spirit is masculine in Latin and German , but these are not the original script !
---1stcliff on 11/15/14


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\\Right cluny.
There's No mention of trinity in any scriptures\\

Wrong, Lawrence.

There are MANY mentions of the Trinity throughout the Bible. I've given some references that answer your objections in the past.

However, you didn't answer my question, which I will repeat here.

Do you think the doctrine of the Holy Trinity was cooked up by a Roman pope?

If so, which one?

Please be specific.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/15/14


Right cluny.
There's No mention of trinity in any scriptures, from the front to the back of God's Word. Prov.14 v 12 commandments doctrines of men, fictitious 3 persons godhead, but for those think believe there is such digging in the pit trying to prove that which is Not, God put them in Rev.17 vs 4 5 6, which are many, Matt.7 v 13,
Destruction hell then the lake of fire.

The Acts Church of The Living God which are few, Matt.7 v 14.
The Lord's faithful few.

Glory to God The Father which who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 11/15/14


1stCliff

feom Eve From Adam's Side

"Sorry I should have been more specific...Rom 8.26 calls Holy Spirit "itself" KJV.
because spirit (pneuma) is not masculine in gender ! calling spirit/pneuma "he" is not grammatically correct !
To believe translators were not biased is to have your head in the sand."

If holy spirit is not masculine. Then, what gender is it?
---aka on 11/15/14


chria,

from the adam and eve blog.

why protection is needed in garden of eden?

meditated long time on that. here is what was given...

Luk 14:31 .. what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?

all i can say is possibility, permutations, and preparation.

selah.
---aka on 11/14/14


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\\the 3 persons godhead peoples in Rev.17 vs 4 5 6, \\

In as much as there is NO mention of the Trinity in these verses, or anything that suggests it, are you under the impression that the doctrine of the Trinity was cooked up by a pope?

if so, which one, and when?

BTW--did you know that Jerusalem, Mecca, and other major cities sit on seven hills, too?

However, there is only ONE nation that is personified and clearly identified as a harlot in the Bible. Do you know what it is?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/14/14


Anything blog. Anything goes with the commandments & doctrines of men, the 3 persons godhead peoples in Rev.17 vs 4 5 6, which are many Matt.7 v 13. I'v heard & seen so much of them ministers at funerals preaching low down drunken scoundrels others etc into heaven, even a lady with smoke stink stick in her hand in the casket. If they could no doubt they'd try to preach the devil into heaven.
My Pastor & others, when they are asked by sinner people to do a funeral, my Pastor will tell them, I cannot, will not preach that person in heaven. That person Is in the hands of a Living & Just God.
Sin will Not enter there in.

Glory to God The The Father which who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 11/14/14


trav, i have taken the time to meditate about the female/male and adam/eve. this scenario also eases some angst for gaps that pop christianity cannot.
...and it is returning to where it began for humans.
---aka on 11/14/14

Agree! Confused are the generations who look to us...the elders for answers...and our most educated create further senseless divisions for them and theirselves. GOD and science are perfectly united, being that GOD created the science. Not searching is laziness, non loving, short sighted for our future generations. To me.
Seen this one below? Verifing we would search both...
Jer_31:37 Thus saith the LORD, If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations ...
---Trav on 11/14/14


Rita, as you wish.
---learner2 on 11/14/14


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Learner is definitely wrong. The story of Adam and Eve is, I believe, God telling us EXACTLY how things began. Incest was not sinful until God said that it was and that came MUCH later when there was a huge choice of far more distant relatives from whom to choose a mate.

It is sad when Christians seem to wish to make something sinful which was not at the time. Non-believers put their energy into casting doubts on Christianity - we don't need fellow Christians also placing doubt into the minds of other Christians.

If some feel that parts of the bible are false where does one draw the line?
---Rita_H on 11/14/14


trav, i have taken the time to meditate about the female/male and adam/eve. this scenario also eases some angst for gaps that pop christianity cannot.

some things that attribute to the Father's tolerance of some sinful actions have never set well with me.

in order for a & e (only) to multiply, incest is required. a/e and m/f does not require this terrible misbehavior.

plus, this also explains why a lot of people never seem to get it and it is returning to where it began for humans.
---aka on 11/14/14


"Eve From Adam's Side" blog cont'd: "Keep in mind, the Adam and Eve story is an allegory."
---learner2 on 11/12/14


Learner: If what you say is true (it's not), then there really wasn't an Adam & Eve, & there was no original sin thereby nullifying the rest of the Bible account regarding our need of salvation in Jesus Christ. Who told you the A & E record was an allegory?
---Leon on 11/14/14


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