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Can Dead People Live

Can dead people continue to live without their bodies prior to the resurrection?

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 ---jerry6593 on 11/27/14
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Many people, even most so-called christians, read the bible from beginning to end using worldly knowledge and never understanding it spiritually.
---Steveng on 12/4/14

There is scripture about this, blindness in understanding. Seldom utilized. Almost never by the cemetery trained. (they would have to admit they were blind. In their pride, craving status among men, they cannot trade the false for the truth)

One has to ask for understanding. Disciples/Apostles did not understand scripture until asking.
Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Luk_24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
---Trav on 12/10/14


\\Many people, even most so-called christians, read the bible from beginning to end using worldly knowledge and never understanding it spiritually.\\

You're one of those, Steveng.

You and the rest of your worldly denominational "church".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/14


//
samuelbb7, Scripture says "No man has gone to heaven except Jesus" (who came from heaven)
Is this not true ?
---1stcliff on 12/9/14 //


Actually Cliff, the scripture you refer to (John 3:13) implies (in context) that no man ever went to heaven and came back to tell about it (including Lazarus). There are several men mentioned in scripture who went to heaven - Enoch & Elijah were translated and Moses and some 24 others were resurrected.

The rest of the dead, from Adam to our day must remain in the grave asleep until the resurrection "at the last day" (John 6:40).


---jerry6593 on 12/10/14


samuelbb7, Scripture says "No man has gone to heaven except Jesus" (who came from heaven)
Is this not true ?
---1stcliff on 12/9/14


I mentioned Enoch but forgot to also speak of Elijah never dying.

Elijah went up by a whirlwind. The whirlwind was definitely the means that transported him and the chariot of fire up to heaven. The Holman Bible Dictionary explains what I mean very well: "Elijah and Elisha were involved in the schools of the prophets when Elijah struck the waters of the Jordan and they parted to allow their crossing (2 Kings 2:1-12). There, immediately after conferring a double portion of his spirit on Elisha (2 Kings 2:9), the two were separated by a chariot and horses of fire which carried Elijah away in a whirlwind as Elisha watched shouting, "My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof."
---Samuelbb7 on 12/9/14




I do not believe that Jerry believes the dead are alive. Like me we believe that the dead are asleep in the grave.

But the Bible says Enoch never died.


Genesis 5:24

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not, for God took him.

We believe Moses was resurrected from the dead. But we cannot prove it.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/9/14


Jerry, The transfiguration was a "vision" those people were dead !
Are you now going to believe that the dead are still alive ???
---1stcliff on 12/9/14


cluny: "Visions are given in terms the visionary can understand."

Not always. Ever read the book of Daniel? He didn't understand at first. If you don't understand the Bible, go ask your Pope. I'm sure he'll give you some pagan interpretation.

Have you ever considered that sometimes the word "tree" simply means "tree"?


---jerry6593 on 12/9/14


Visions are given in terms the visionary can understand.

Heavenly, spiritual things are shown in terms of earthly, physical things.

If you think these are literal trees and such, all I can do is repeat the words of C. S. Lewis. "If you can't understand books written for adults, don't read them."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/14


Cliff: "John was seeing a "vision" not a look into heaven !"

Was it a false vision then?Are you saying that the Bible is lying? Jesus gave John this vision(Rev 1:1). Was Jesus trying to deceive us? Better recheck your theology.


---jerry6593 on 12/8/14




Jerry , Yes i do, but in this instance John was seeing a "vision" not a look into heaven !
---1stcliff on 12/7/14


\\and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. \\

Have you ever wondered how there's sickness in heaven, jerry?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/14


Cliff: "Jerry, If there are rivers and trees in heaven then just maybe the moon is made of Swiss cheese"

Do you believe the Bible Cliff?

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


---jerry6593 on 12/7/14


Oh, thanks cliff. I am starting to understand...sort of.

Pneuma can be wind, power and now even angel, a created being. But definitely not when it is preceded by hagios or holy. Then, pneuma is inanimate.

However, I thought in another blog that you argued that the holy spirit cannot be "he" because the noun is neuter. the plural of spirit is still neuter, so I guess the spirits in Peter's "time line" were neutered?

Fulakh is used in the verses in 1 Peter 3. The pneumatic "angels" must have been transfered to tarterus [sic].
---aka on 12/6/14


aka, Spirits (plural) is correct.
Peter set the "time lime" as in Noah's day.
Which spirits were imprisoned then ?
Those spirits (angels) that left their position in heaven and materialized as men and married the daughters of men (Gen.6,1.2)
When the flood drowned their human bodies they could not return to their original station in heaven . 1Pet3 20" who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah" They are still in prison (Tarterus).
---1stcliff on 12/5/14


Trav,... Canada is U.S,'s greatest trading partner,
Up there on the space station is the "Canada Arm" ...
WE have fought every war side by side with US. and now against ISIS !
We are cousins !
---1stcliff on 12/4/14

When I look North Cliff...I don't see a border. Cousins like brothers. Love England and Australia...but, won't embellish here. Arrogance does not need fed.
I see good in all these country's. We all have problems, and we shouldn't point at them or laugh but, rather help the brother out. Esau made his grossest mistake permanent...feeling superior.
Oba 1:12 ... neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
---Trav on 12/5/14


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Trav, I don't think you are ahead of me in Biblical understanding or application. Further (as an avid reader of the Bible...
---Warwick on 12/4/14

Saul was an educated avid reader like yourself. You are "Saul" today. Not Paul...yet.
I'm not boasting either saying that I wish you could see what I've seen before you. I'd admire a hard headed brother like yourself to back to back with in truth. (Rather than a "for religions sake enemy"),exceedingly zealous in the traditions of your doctrinal fathers.
Your fears blinds you. Fear that what the prophets say is true. Not accepting/understanding that GOD being GOD can make a pot for whatever purpose he desires. See Pharaoh. He was a King, you're not.
---Trav on 12/5/14


/ Currently our Toronto Raptors is the best team in the NBA.. / 1stcliff

Eastern conference that is. As of 12/4, they are 3rd in the whole NBA behind Golden State and the Memphis Grizzlies who came from Vancouver.

cliff, your version of the verses that we talk about has then has no actual death. And from what you believe, the resurrection was from God's memory. But why was jesus proclaiming to God's forces because the plural of pneuma is used and you are more than convinced that God's spirit is an inanimate force.
---aka on 12/5/14


dead people can live again because the bible say that the dead in Christ shall raise back to life.
---Eno_Asuquo on 12/5/14


Many people, even most so-called christians, read the bible from beginning to end using worldly knowledge and never understanding it spiritually. Many have the knowledge of God, but deny his power. Many can define what love (as in the verb form), but never apply it.
---Steveng on 12/4/14


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Trav, Little known fact, Canada is U.S,'s greatest trading partner,
Up there on the space station is the "Canada Arm" designed and built right here in the great white north !(I like to brag a little too).
Currently our Toronto Raptors is the best team in the NBA.
WE have fought every war side by side with US. and now against ISIS !
We are cousins !
---1stcliff on 12/4/14


Trav, I don't think you are ahead of me in Biblical understanding or application. My problem with you (from day one) is that for unknown reasons you adopt a writing style which is truncated and often meaningless. Further (as an avid reader of the Bible from cover to cover-there I go boasting again) very few, if any of the Scriptures you quote are new to me. I often have trouble connecting your quotes to what you are trying to say.

You could write clearly but choose not to!
---Warwick on 12/4/14


Trav, in reality I respond negatively to most of your fumbling miscommunication.
I like others sometimes wonder just what you are on about.
---Warwick on 12/3/14

Your "tell". When you can't pass or catch up with the scriptural ball it's a fumble or a foul. Just because you can't understand or put one and one together with scripture to score for the "sheep".
Isa 50:8 He is near that justifieth me, who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.
Isa 51:1 Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
---Trav on 12/4/14


"Our Space Program has kept free parts of the world free." You are joking surely!
---Warwick on 12/3/14

No. We're looking after you and at you too little brother. Military Space program since 1950's-2014, even while you're playing out back at CMI now in your chain mail waving your wooden sword around. Ask someone with a car to show you GPS. You're gonna like it.
Hey you guys get the multiple collateral benefits for free. We never complained. So Happy Birthday.
And you guys have a telescope! We use it now an then. We'll send you some Hubble shots...free again to you.
---Trav on 12/4/14


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Cliff. Really if that is what you take from that...I'm speechless.
---aka on 12/3/14


Trav, in reality I respond negatively to most of your fumbling miscommunication. I like others sometimes wonder just what you are on about.

As to guns I remind you that per 100,000 of population 43 times as many citizens of the USA are murdered by gun, as compared to Australia!

"We'll protect your wives and kids for ya." No thanks!
---Warwick on 12/3/14


Trav, as usual you write semi-English "No the contributions less ignored by me than you." What are you trying to say? Is English your first language?
---Warwick on 12/3/14

Ha. Thanks. A touche. You understood my English perfect as intended. Every time a post "Epee" hits the mark you respond negatively...which is a touche! I'll play right handed only if you insist.
Is true we have more blessings with 14 times your population and with such multiplied problems. Not as socialistic as Oz we are too lenient and hopeful on our problem makers. We still wanna make em useful when they get out.
Wish you could still play with guns but, you guys can always come over here. We'll protect your wives and kids for ya.
---Trav on 12/3/14


Good and correct point cliff.


1Co 15:16-18

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

The dead are asleep as this verse says. They do not have bodies yet. That comes when JESUS comes to get us.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/3/14


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aka, You mention Eccl. 9.5 being way out of context but ignore the "context of 1Pet.
Peter is explaining how Christ preached to the spirits in prison "in the days of Noah" (in the spirit,not in the flesh)
Why, when explaining Christ's crucifixion, is he off talking about Noah's day if he is not establishing the "time line "?
Before coming to earth Jesus was a spirit being like His Father . (but you don't believe that either, and we're not talking about Michael )
God is the one who says He has a "Son" !
---1stcliff on 12/3/14


Trav, as usual you write semi-English "No the contributions less ignored by me than you." What are you trying to say? Is English your first language?

In response to you I sought a few statistics and anyone can see your country does not do well in comparison. For example your poverty and violent crime rates (a sign of social inequality) are through the roof. Your medical system is a disgrace.

"Our Space Program has kept free parts of the world free." You are joking surely!
---Warwick on 12/3/14


Cliff...regardless of the because...to address the question and your spinnage. 1 Peter 3:18-19 ESV

For Christ... being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,

Like ed bassmaster would say...Would you look at that? God's force in prison? Just look at it.

the eccl verses that you continuously use are way out of context and I don't have to visit there anymore.

I would throw my hands up in surrender, but that now obviously means to ignore truthful testimony and physical evidence. Maybe throwing your hands up is what you should do, eh?
---aka on 12/3/14


trav, But maybe you ignore non whites?
You confuse size with performance.
I dont know of anyone here who has died by snake bite.
---Warwick on 12/2/14

No the contributions less ignored by me than you. You've never referenced in all these years. Native Americans here as well. I love Australia. You being a poorest representative of country can't affect that.
Size with performance. Britain, your mother our brother historically out performed all. Our Space Program has kept free parts of the world free. Hunger is not their job. Denom Churches could feed all our poor. They take in and waste more than all Space Programs put together.
(Well snakes alive: forgot you "know" everybody in Oz. except yourself)
---Trav on 12/3/14


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Matthew 26:11 KJV

For ye have the poor always with you, but me ye have not always.

This first part of this sentence was not a statement of allowance or commendation. Your reality v. My reality kind of thing.

In this world to be rich, most must be poor. In God's economy, that is not so.

Warwick, the first sentence was to you. The rest is for those who use the same few verses to "prove" this claim without addressing scripture as a whole.
---aka on 12/2/14


I forgot to point out that the US only manages to give 6 times as much international financial aid as does Australia while having a population of about 14 times. Not impressive, but jes loka thet rocket go Jethro.

BTW our pension scheme is ranked no. 2 in the world after Denmark. Have a guess where yours is? Look way down the list.
---Warwick on 12/2/14


Typo error should be Eccl.9.5.
---1stcliff on 12/2/14


aka, If you read a little further in 1 Pet.3. you will see the "time lime" that this preaching to those in prison took place, namely in the days of Noah, not at His execution !
He was dead for parts of 3 days...you don't believe this , right ?
---1stcliff on 12/2/14


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aka, Do you believe Eccl. 1.5 that he living know that they will die but the dead know "nothing" at all ?
Simple no?
---1stcliff on 12/2/14


Trav, you refer to Australia as "our younger ex-criminal brother country." In reality Australia has had human occupation for much longer than the US. But maybe you ignore non whites?

The murder rate in the US is 4.1 while Australias is 1.1.
The US murder rate by gun is 4.7 while Australia is 0.11
Who are the criminals?

You confuse size with performance. It is not what you have but what you do with it which matters.

Your country can afford a space program while ours can afford a social services (including health) program beyond your financial ability. Which is best-play with rockets or care for those in need?

I dont know of anyone here who has died by snake bite.
---Warwick on 12/2/14


He knows human nature that some just can't provide for themselves !
---1stcliff on 12/1/14

Cliff,
Eeee' jus a lil jealous. We are mentioned in scripture a little more than our younger ex-criminal brother country.
Our country can afford a space program. A lot of our technologies (they being recipients of) came from our space programs.
Jer_31:37 Thus saith the LORD, If heaven above can be measured, the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Our GNI is around 10 trillion compared to their mid 300 billion.
They have 140 land Snake species...100 venomous. Hmmm. Would keep you on edge, probably explains the bite-r.
---Trav on 12/2/14


Cliff, with a little reading you will see that the stated aim is to prove that life could have come from lifeless chemicals on Mars. Those involved consider that the finding of water on Mars will prove that life also came into being on Mars by natural causes (as opposed to supernatural causes) just as they propose it did on earth. Their very foundational reasoning is that supernatural creation never occurred.

Yes we will always have the poor but we do not need to waste money starving the poor.

In reality the US medical and welfare system is far far behind the Australian system.
---Warwick on 12/1/14


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Aka, I do understand the examples you gave were to explain, not to explain away. I was not referring to you, nor your examples. Please read it again in this light.

You commented about my comments to Cliff but now you begin to talk about corpses. Did I miss something?
---Warwick on 12/1/14


If you're talking about the soul/spirit, apparently YES, jerry. There are passages in the Bible that suggest this.

Of course, this is just a temporary arrangement.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/2/14


Cliff...talk all you want. Sometimes it's literal...other times it's allegorical. It's whatever suits ever shifting argument.

The question is: Can dead people continue to live without their bodies prior to the resurrection?

1 Peter 3:18-19

For Christ... being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,

Guess what greek word is used for spirit?

Imagine God's inanimate force (pneuma) was imprisoned. Just how do you detain a force?
---aka on 12/2/14


Warwick, I doubt that the space agency is spending millions o dollars to prove scripture wrong, they could care less about the bible.
They are looking for other life forms, water (H2O)is a key factor in using mars or any other planet as a space station to go further into the universe, perhaps even colonize !
Jesus stated "The poor you always have with you"
He knows human nature that some just can't provide for themselves !
We have a generous welfare system !
---1stcliff on 12/1/14


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Cliff, the question is: why are they searching for water on Mars? In the vain aim of proving microbe to man evolution. And what a waste of taxpayers funds that is, and from a country which will not provide proper healthcare for its millions of poor people. The desire to prove Scripture wrong is strong indeed.

In your distrust of God's word you imagine that the God who made it all, from nothing, without man's assistance, is not able to hide something physical from our eyes?

I am well aware of figures of speech however there is nothing in the context to suggest this is not to be taken as physical reality.
---Warwick on 12/1/14


aka, First detail of identification is your name.
Date of birth, and location !
That info identifies you.
Rev 20 mentions names written in the "book of life"
Literal or not it doesn't matter, apparently that's how God identifies who will live.
If your name is not in the book....you're toast !
(the book is likely metaphorical for God's memory)
No tangible body or intangible soul is necessary !
---1stcliff on 12/1/14


However many of those who say this or that part of Scripture is metaphor, poetry, allegory etc do so to say it is not to be taken as written, to explain it away. ...
---Warwick on 11/30/14

Much of what you cannot see, was never meant for you to see. Christ makes this plain. Your doctrinal deep rut positions sometimes make this more evident.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_13:10 the disciples said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat_13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
---Trav on 12/1/14


Warwick, I mentioned water, not to give credence to evolution ,but the water could be detected.
Scripture mentions "river" and trees, which would be clearly visible if "literal".
Trees grow from earth, soil and water...you're suggesting there's earth in heaven ?
Earth is not invisible !
Because you cannot accept symbolic scripture you're delving into mysticism and magic ! (secrets of the unknown )
---1stcliff on 12/1/14


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when i was in the service, i had a buddy blown to bits. they could not any distinguishable body parts. i had another who was vaporized. there is no corpse in both cases.

will they be able to literally hear the lord?

to the sda, where does their soul sleep?

what about decomposition? where are the ears to hear? where is the soul if it is at rest with the body?
---aka on 12/1/14


Cliff , even at its best common sense is an uncommon a fallible cultural thing well below the absolute unchanging Truth of Gods word. Man lies, schemes and makes constant mistakes. God doesnt.

How ironic that man is probing Mars for water in the mistaken idea that water is a basic ingredient of life. Ironic because the protein chains evolutionists claim once popped into existence (creating life) in the imagined primordial soup upon earth, will not form in the presence of water!

Do you imagine that mans telescopes can search out the knowledge of Gods being and doing? Not so, this can be discovered by revelation, e.g. Matthew 13:11
---Warwick on 12/1/14


Warwick, I said use of literary devices to enhance meaning not to explain away.

dead in 1 the 4.16. It says dead in Christ not just dead

Now. For those that want to be literal, a corpse cannot EVER hear.

And the two verses before say fallen asleep. Are they sleeping or dead? Literally speaking, they cannot be both.

The word used is from nekro. A corpse. That does not mean that the soul sleeps (sda) or is annihilated (jw).

1 Peter 3:18-19 ESV

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,
---aka on 12/1/14


Jerry, of course, those born of God. Read John 1:12.
"but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. Who were born, not of blood, not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will man, but of God"
As you can see that man can and does continue to live without their human bodies. They are the children of God, you should know that.
---Luke on 12/1/14


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The Bible states the dead will live again after Jesus comes again.


1Th 4:16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


John 5:25

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/30/14


Aka, I of course understand (Mrs Hill thankfully beat it into me at school) that truth can be conveyed via all sorts of figures of speech including metaphor of course. However many of those who say this or that part of Scripture is metaphor, poetry, allegory etc do so to say it is not to be taken as written, to explain it away. They do this to enable them to reinterpret Scripture through nonBiblical beliefs such as Theistic Evolution, The Gap Theory, Microbe to Man Evolution and Long Ages.
---Warwick on 11/30/14


Warwick, Just plain common sense , man has means to look into the universe to millions of light years distant. Now probing mars for water.
Rivers, trees, animals etc. are "tangible" and earthly.
If they existed we could see them.
Unless they are invisible trees and rivers....
God's heavenly Kingdom and Angels are invisible to us, but they are not tangible nor earthly !
Psl.115.16.
---1stcliff on 11/30/14


Just because something is literal doesn't mean we cannot use metaphor, simile, hyperbole and other literary conventions to describe something that is or is not easily understood. It puts it on human terms where appreciation can be enhanced.

-You hair is like silk.
-A face that launched a thousand ships.
-Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

it puts meaning into things that we may not comprehend.
---aka on 11/30/14


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Cliff, why should there not be rivers and trees in heaven?

Is there any part of Scripture you are prepared to accept as literal history? If so why?
---Warwick on 11/29/14


Jerry, If there are rivers and trees in heaven then just maybe the moon is made of Swiss cheese !
If no one can tell the difference between literal and metaphorical , then maybe you're right aka, not much point in discussing scripture !
---1stcliff on 11/29/14


the answers to my questions usually come through in my dreams. a friend died and I asked God what happens when we die. yes, we continue to live but no longer a part of the living, meaning the life we used to have. we have a choice though. to stay and be amongst the living or move on to another place. the lady in white handed me a large gift bag but I chose not to accept it. the only problem with staying is, i was no
longer able to communicate with the living. i know now what the bible
means when we sleep and eternal life. there is nothing to fear about death. we are not alone and life does goes on.
---Carmen_Sison on 11/29/14


Old English, from Church Latin paradisus,
from Greek paradeisos garden, of Persian origin

Most words in every language are derived from previous tongues.

"Your" gender argument was info that was not based on solid linguistics either.

This is why I cannot discuss anything with those with a cultist slant. It is almost the truth given.

No.. don't have to agree but I cannot discuss the bible especially with anyone who uses only parts of the bible as truth and other parts false and tell part of the facts.

If a green coat snipes on the blue coats from the sidelines who are fighting the red coats, he is a redcoat for all intensive purposes.
---aka on 11/28/14


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// Cluny, the word "paradise" here is neither Greek nor Hebrew, but Persian and means Park or garden with trees !
These are earthly things !
---1stcliff on 11/28/14//

Garden with trees are also available in the heavenly paradise according to the scripture.
---Adetunji on 11/29/14


Cluny: "Is Paradise the same as Heaven"

Here are some biblical facts that you can verify if you are interested:

(1) God the Father's throne is in heaven.

(2) The river of life flows from His throne.

(3) The Tree of Life spans this very river.

(4) The Tree of Life is in PARADISE!

Conclusion: Paradise is IN heaven.


---jerry6593 on 11/29/14


Cluny, the word "paradise" here is neither Greek nor Hebrew, but Persian and means Park or garden with trees !
These are earthly things !
---1stcliff on 11/28/14


aka, Sorry ,but I do not subscribe to any cult or denomination !
Do you only talk to those who agree with you?
---1stcliff on 11/28/14


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Greek and Hebrew do not have commas. The "facts" about the original text are just reiteration of what somebody said that may or may not be valid.

Not too long ago I was sitting in the barber's off with leeches all over me reading about the flat world and they said one day man who was a monkey will be walking on the moon one day. Can you believe that.

Steveng. As ad says paradise is not about our space and time. Plus...do this maybe give credence to the mature of godliness?

Cliff and Jerry both of your cults say jesus is Michael and Michael is jesus. We do not have any common ground.
---aka on 11/28/14


I find it very strange that the one who wrote this questionable episode was neither apostle nor Jewish.(Was he even there?)
No other bible writer speaks of it. (the apostles were present)
Same as the Rich man and Lazarus.
Eye witness ? doubtful !
---1stcliff on 11/28/14


Is Paradise the same as Heaven, 1stCliff?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/14


to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Eternal life means "never ending."

Everlasting life means "lasting forever.'

People who die as Believers in Christ Jesus leave this earth and body goes to the grave while their spirit goes to heaven.
---donna9393 on 11/28/14


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I would like to see one of these evangelicals,who believe that the thief went to paradise that very day, describe this "paradise" they went to !
Jesus did not ascend to heaven for 40 days after death and resurrection !
---1stcliff on 11/28/14


Steveng: //Besides, Christ has not risen yet while he was on the cross until the third day.
//

Remember, Paradise neither has day or night.
---Adetunji on 11/28/14


aka, I received a phone call on Friday in March of 1981:
HR: Mr. Greco?
Me: Yes.
MR: You are now part of the Avionics Engineering Department.

But I didn't start work until the following Tuesday and finishing the paperwork.
---
After I got baptized in 1969, I was told that I am "now a citizen of God's Kingdom," but God's kingdom will not come until all is fulfilled.
---
No one is in "paradise" yet until the first resurrection where the dead (the dead cannot do anything) in Christ shall rise first and the living shall rise with the dead.

Besides, Christ has not risen yet while he was on the cross until the third day.
---Steveng on 11/27/14


aka, Just like it was originally written, add your own punctuation !
---1stcliff on 11/28/14


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aka: "And he said to him, Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

How do you square that with:

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: ?

There were no commas in the original. Try it this way and it aligns with Joh 20:17.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.


---jerry6593 on 11/28/14


Luke 23:43 ESV

And he said to him, Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.

John 19:32-33 ESV

So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
---aka on 11/27/14


Jerry, If the dead are alive and function very well without a body, why would they need one at any point in time ?
---1stcliff on 11/27/14


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