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Live Saving Techiques

Should Christians always feel that they MUST accept any life-saving techniques which are available and are offered to themselves or loved ones unable to answer for themselves?

If we refuse treatment are we going against God or using common sense?

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 ---Rita_H on 11/28/14
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I recently saw a TV drama that had as a late plot element a woman with newly discovered advanced brain cancer.

Death would come in about a month.

Aggressive chemotherapy would extend her life about 5.

In similar circumstances, I would reject it.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/16/15


In this age, where medicine has advanced enough, it is reasonable to take medicine when it is available for our problem.

However, we can, and indeed should, hope that God will arrange any problem for which we would normally have to take medicine so that the medicine is not necessary.

If God does not heal us 'directly', yes, we should use medical pracise.
---Peter on 1/8/15


For those having strong faith, they will be healed by God.
---Steveng on 12/15/14

No answer here to the question. One personal experience.
At nine years old developed a growth inside my right knee, Acorn size. Leg would give out under me, no warning. Week of scheduled surgery... X rayed growth was gone. Doctor said in 60+ cases this had never happened. Couldn't happen, no place for it to go. Mother prayed, GOD answered.
Steveng do you take Aspirin, Iodine, Suncream, Alka Seltzer, Novocaine or Gas at the Dentist? Little Wine for the stomach's sake? Most do.

Logical surgery? Yes, for me.
Comatose veg, unable to answer? Pull my plug.
---Trav on 12/26/14


Glad to hear it Cluny. I am sure the doctor already told you but be careful what you drink.

Let us always keep our eyes on JESUS.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/21/14


\\But we can pray for the wisdom of the doctor and the sense to do the right thing.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/20/14\\

Good idea, Samuel!

**Gordon Klingenschmitt, (R-Colorado) says we should replace the ACA with prayer.**

Well, I've told the story about what happened after my AV fistula was done.

My kidney function is now 52%--highest it's been in years!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/20/14




If you refuse life saving treatment you are not using common sense you would be committing suicide. Purposely dying by refusing life saving treatment is in no way considered Gods way. Then there are many looking to Doctors as "gods" expecting them to save their life without having faith or praying. If your faith is that of a mustard seed then use both.
---LeahMary71 on 12/20/14


When I am sick I go see a doctor. I almost died from an illness but the medicine I took helped save my life. I believe in GOD. But no where in the Bible does He say not to go to doctors.

One of my sisters died of a curable form of cancer because some religious people convinced her not to go to a doctor. Not going can kill you.

But we can pray for the wisdom of the doctor and the sense to do the right thing.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/20/14


Steveng >My new step son just returned from Vanderbilt hospital. He has muscular distrophy and was going to die if his heart were not fixed.

He graduated from Christian school, and in one year, became agnostic and now atheist. I believe he is just angry. Nevertheless, you feel it is better that he dies an atheist without getting the chance to hear about the real christ. You sound no different than the denominations that you always put down.

Some science is used to try to unlink us from God and each other. So do you think it better to turn off your computer and spend time with your family. science made it possible for you to criticize everybody world wide for doing exactly what you are doing...taking advantage of science.
---aka on 12/20/14


Your faith has healed you or a loved one.
---Steveng on 12/15/14

Tell that to:

Seth Ian Glaser, 17 months
Natalie Rippberger, eight months
Shauntay Walker, age four
Amy Hermanson, age seven
Ian Lundman, age 11
Robyn Twitchell, age two
Kimberly Sartore, age one
Clayton Scott Zimmern, age nine (hit by a car!)

and multiple others who were denied treatment by their parents who decided God would heal them.

You don't want medical care, fine, do yourself in.. but these kids died becuase of their religious parents.

Gordon Klingenschmitt, (R-Colorado) says we should replace the ACA with prayer. He must have an interest in the funeral home business.
---NurseRobert on 12/20/14


God used a computer to give me an answer about my thyroid I had cancer of the thyroid. the page I was looking for just popped up on my computer after my pastor anointed me with oil.
---shira4368 on 12/19/14




\ Yes, God works through people to perform miracles. \\

How many miracles have you or the rest of your worldly denominational church of Steveng performed? I've asked you this at least once before.

\\Cluny wrote: "Quit trying to be more spiritual than God, Steveng. It won't work."

Just how am I being more spiritual than God?\\

God created matter and works through it. The Bible is filled with examples. Try reading it sometime.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/14


Cluny wrote: "God works through human beings. This includes physicians and medicine."

Yes, God works through people to perform miracles. It is these miracles that prove the existance of God (besides the use of prophesy). But is does not include physicians and medicines. These are man's devices who think they are greater than God. Science is proving that man does not need God and people, even christians, today believe that.

Cluny wrote: "Quit trying to be more spiritual than God, Steveng. It won't work."

Just how am I being more spiritual than God?
---Steveng on 12/16/14


\\For those having strong faith, they will be healed by God.

For those having weak or no faith, they are healed by man.\\

God works through human beings.

This includes physicians and medicine.

However, some people find it hard to grasp this concept.

Remember, the Logos became a man. He didn't stay a discarnate entity.

Quit trying to be more spiritual than God, Steveng. It won't work.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/14


steveng, you failed to mentioned God's will. you can have faith but God will heal in His time.
---shira4368 on 12/16/14


For those having strong faith, they will be healed by God.

For those having weak or no faith, they are healed by man.

Your faith has healed you or a loved one.
---Steveng on 12/15/14


Pray and ask God what decision He wants you to make. Then do what your heart tells you to do.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed (G606 = has a reservation) unto men once to die . . .

Each will die at the time, in the way, and in the place that God has prearranged. Thus, it is God who controls all decision-makers, those who provide the type and amount of treatment, those who exercise authority to remove life support.
---aservant on 12/15/14


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What should I do in this case?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/14

What does the patient want? Where I work, I see these scenarios all the time
---NurseRobert on 12/15/14


"Withholding of treatment that is not working is not euthanasia." Cluny. I agree and would also dare to add that refusing a treatment from the outset is not euthanasia either.

Taking something to end our life is wrong but refusing to take something (possibly experimental or not always successful) is not wrong and should be our choice. Before the advent of modern medicine people died of many illnesses. Because cures or (possible cures) are available now does not, necessarily, mean that they should almost be forced upon us.

Prolonging the inevitable does not help the sick person but just puts off the mourning process which loved ones will have to face sooner or later.
---Rita_H on 12/4/14


I think God would say to anyone who seeks to kill themselves"oh you of little faith". God is still in the miracle business when we pray in Jesus Name and have faith. My husbands cousin and I prayed for a man who had sold his business and was getting his life in order so he would be ready to die in a year like the doctor told him he would with cancer. He was healed and didn't die in the year. We must never limit God. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 12/3/14


Cluny, perhaps you're right about that.
---learner2 on 12/3/14


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\\Cluny, it is done everyday in hospitals everywhere. People are unplugged from the machines keeping them alive. \\

No, this is not euthanasia.

Euthanasia is taking positive, active steps to end a patient's life.

Withholding of treatment that is not working is not euthanasia.

40 years ago, pro-life advocates warned that abortion would lead to infanticide.

Now infanticide is urged under the name "post-natal abortion."

What were you saying about slippery slopes?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/3/14


Cluny, it is done everyday in hospitals everywhere. People are unplugged from the machines keeping them alive. That is a form of euthanasia. The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy anyway.
---learner2 on 12/2/14


\\Sometimes euthanasia might be called for, but always with the consent of the patient.
---learner2 on 11/30/14\\

"Thou shalt do no murder" also means, "Thou shalt not murder thyself or consent to another person doing to.

There is no excuse for killing someone just because he's sick. This is what euthanasia is.

Just wait. The "right to die" will become "the duty to die to save your loved ones from worry and expense," and soon become after that "the right to kill."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/2/14


Sometimes euthanasia might be called for, but always with the consent of the patient.
---learner2 on 11/30/14


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"If we refuse treatment are we going against God or using common sense?"

"Whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Rom 14:23 or in the words of the NLT "If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning."

"And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Col 3:17

"For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself" Rom 14:7
---josef on 11/29/14


And thank YOu, Rita.

Something the people here should know:

Brain death is NOT the same thing as a Persistent Vegetative State, though popular entertainment and the media use then as synonyms.

My understanding is that in true brain death, somatic death follows in a matter of hours, but what do I know?

I'll let Nurse Robert explain the difference.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/14


Thanks Cluny. That must have been a most horrifying and frightening time for you and for your mother. You made the right decision, I am certain. None of us know what we might have to face in the days to come.
---Rita_H on 11/29/14


My only concern at that point was to keep her as free from pain as possible.

I asked the surgeon, "If she survives an operation to repair her hip, will she be more comfortable?" I was told she would be.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/14


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You were there Cluny so tell us what you DID do please.
---Rita_H on 11/28/14


Cluny, my mother came down with a rare muscle disease in 2003 then broke her collarbone. We must pray and seek the Lord as to what to do in each and every circumstance as they are all different. I prayed to the Lord and asked, "What should I do? Should I pray and ask you to take her home? Or should I pray and ask you to heal her?" THe Lord began to give me scriptures on healing. I read them out loud to her and after 2 years of intense treatment, hospitalization, nursing home and rehab, my mother made a full recovery. He works all things after the counsel of His Will. ONLY HE KNOWS HIS WILL FOR EACH PERSON'S LIFE. I say help them in any way you can unless they have a DNR (Do not recessitate).
---donna9393 on 11/28/14


My mother was slowly dying of a painful and terribly disfiguring cancer 35 years ago.

A month before she died she fell in the nursing home and broke her hip.

What do you do?

If you don't do anything and merely immobilize her, she will die of pneumonia.

If you try to operate, she could die on the table.

If she survives the surgery, the cancer will kill her?

What should I do in this case?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/14


I asked the question above because of what some say when people are taken off life support but it can also refers to people saying for themselves that they no longer wish to be just kept alive by drugs. I.M.O. deciding to cease treatment (knowing we will die) is NOT the same as taking, or doing, something to ENSURE that we die.

If Michael Schumacher had known what was going to happen to him I guess he'd have preferred to be left to die. The cricketer who died yesterday could easily have been left in the same state.

It's a dreadful decision for anyone to make - medics or family - and much heart-searching must go on to be able to decide.
---Rita_H on 11/28/14


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As long as Jesus tarries, death is a reality for all of us.

It is a sin to refuse ORDINARY means of healing (medicine and such) when available and if healing or at least management of a condition is possible. For example, in diabetes or gout.

OTOH, to refuse refuse chemotherapy or such when there is no reasonable hope of recovery or extended remission of cancer (to give one example) is not sinful in itself.

To take active means to shorten life, such as a suicide pill, IS sinful.

This is why one should make his wishes in this regard known to all relatives and close ones, and have a legally binding document expressing them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/14


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