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No New Testament Written

If not one word of the New Testament had ever been written down, how would that affect your faith, worship, or practice?

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 ---Cluny on 12/5/14
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Bernard WHO?
---kathr4453 on 12/18/14


Trav the scripture you just posted says NOTHING about Ephreimites. Please apply your own advise and not opinion to salvation. Scripture is very clear Jesus died for the sin of EVERYONE. and FAITH which was 400 years before the LAW or any LAW pointing to an earthly Kingdom came into play. Abraham did not have faith believing in any earthly Kingdom RESTORED to Israel. His faith was in the promised redeemer promised in Genesis 3:15.
---kathr453 on 12/18/14


I've posted plenty of scripture Trav, that you seem to disagree with supplanting it with your own verses ...
---kathr4453 on 12/18/14

Bernard says: Your entitled to your own opinions...but not to your own facts.
Fact: No scripture last three post. Lies, accusations because Israel in scripture is chasing you. You have no witnesses. Example: Heb 8:8/new covenant.
Testator died...
Heb 9:15 ...that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force ...
---Trav on 12/18/14


I've posted plenty of scripture Trav, that you seem to disagree with supplanting it with your own verses and changing the meaning of words and definitions of words. The KINGDOM restored to Israel is yet future and not today.

Salvation is to ALL, not just those of Jewish blood lines.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/14


... they certainly know more than Trav.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/14

I stand humbled before nothing you've quoted there in scripture. Because you didn't quote any scripture.
Reminding immediately another scripturally
"unauthorized"teacher (poser)though. Scripture always better because it has "authority". Agreeing with you...i don't have any. Rev_2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Ohhh...another one.
1Ki_21:23 And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.
---Trav on 12/18/14




The Doctrine that Trav has adopted for his own, becoming popular with Blacks as an answer back to those who have for years preached blacks were not even human with souls.

Trav doctrine deny's Gentiles salvation, BUT, he and his cult can include Blacks who's blood line goes back to Joseph and his Egyptian wife, and their sons being that BLOOD LINE DESCENDENT PROOF( Egyptians are considered negroid) who say THAT is the only way they have a legitimate right to the New Covenant.

So Cluny, we see no such thing ever taught in the New Testament written by Jews do we. And they certainly know more than Trav. So,the answer to your question is....the WRITTEN NT Explains the Old , and not once are Ephraimites mentioned.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/14


The difference between an "identity" Ephraimite and a "spiritual" Ephraimite is night and day. The former is religious (seducing Christians into observing Torah because of some imaginary bloodline identity), arriving at a new religious fad .

Ephraimite, or "Two House" movement is in error for the following reasons:

flawed, unwarranted, and dangerous interpretation of scripture
inconsistent logic and contradictions
racist and race-based theology
theology that functions in the same way as supersessionism
historically inaccurate depictions of Israel
dangerous, false, and militant claims to the land which threaten the stability of the current State of Israel.
---kath4454 on 12/18/14


Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, ...for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, ....they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
---Trav on 12/17/14


Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Act_1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Luk 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy,
Luk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are "compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses", ......let us lay aside every ...
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
---Trav on 12/16/14


Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


Heir of "the WORLD"....I love that. For God so loved THE WORLD. Yet what we have here is yet another who wants to redefine the word WORLD meaning a select few excluding all others. Same ol same ol game...
---kathr4453 on 12/16/14




Romans 4:9
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Romans 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Galatians 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/14


... God scattered the 10 tribes among themselves.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/14

... if you can. Hello, knew you couldn't, as a moth to the light.
Eze_28:25 Thus saith the Lord GOD, When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen,....
Eze_36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know ...
Eze_37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side,...
Eze_37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 12/16/14


Just another false LIMITED ATONEMENT doctrines out there.

And since "Heathens" are referred to in the first five books of the Bible, LONG LONG before God divorced Israel, of which Israel can't find that bill of divorcement in the first place, of which those at the time of Esther were the dispersed God saved because of His everlasting covenant promises with Israel regardless of their disobedience, and although they were scattered among the HEATHEN, Trav seems to want you to believe God scattered the 10 tribes among themselves.

What a mess.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/14


The erroneous "two-house" belief (started approximately 40 years ago) ----
NOW AVOIDING YOU TRAV.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/14

Blessing us both if you can.
In final consideration of your 40 years... amazing isn't it. I mean that men didn't discover Israel was Divorced, put away. New Covenant mentions both Houses.

Heb_8:8 ...when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel... "and" ...with the house of Judah:
Eze 37:22 ...one king shall be king to them all: they ..."shall be no more two nations",... neither shall they be divided... "into two kingdoms"... any more at all:

Amazing ain't it.
---Trav on 12/15/14


It's odd how far this thread has strayed from my original question.
---Cluny on 12/15/14

The question answered itself. It is written. It has preexisting written witnesses. The Apostles done very well verbally to the "Lost Sheep", it was accepted quite well amongst them. Being it was years before any of it made it to paper.

Mat_10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Try another question.
---Trav on 12/15/14


Kath, from another blog last night:

"i have no traces to Jacob's blood as far as i know. but, as i started verifying what i was reading, i started to understand more and the bible made a lot more sense to me. i have no traces of gentile blood that i know of either.

most search the scriptures in order to prove their own salvation. to me, that is jesus' job. there is nothing in me that will save me. that is what i read. ---akaon 12/14/14"

So...to you...what causes least confusion...a parallel to grafting the way it is truly done or the unparallel parallel that modern Christianity teaches?
---aka on 12/15/14


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The erroneous "two-house" belief (started approximately 40 years ago) insist all Christians who become Torah observant believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob automatically belong to the Tribe of Ephraim. They contend that members of the "born-again" segment of the Christian church are, in fact, actual blood descendants (DNA PLEASE)of the ancient Israelites.
1 Timothy 1:4
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies----
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain.

NOW AVOIDING YOU TRAV.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/14


It's odd how far this thread has strayed from my original question.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/14


And TRAV I see you posted NO SCRIPTURE ...
And Trav, please read ALL Galatians 4. So he's asking "Ethnos", why would YOU want to go back...
---kathr4453 on 12/15/14

Hey that's "shouting" kat. What happened to the other smooth as this can't be real butter one?
Divorce:Jer_3:8 ... backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce,...

"Redeemed"...bought back. Only Israel had the Law, punished under the law or given promises and covenants. Your arguing with scriptural prophets, not me. Some may find these...and honor GOD through your disbelief.
Ps 147:19,20 He showeth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel....
---Trav on 12/15/14


Galatians 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


Is there any scripture that says the 10 house were also referred to as heathens? Now Israel may have been disobedient but never reduced to being called heathens. And again not ALL those of the 10th house were disobedient were they? and no scripture proof that each individual tribe is referred to as a Nation, and it's totality called NATIONS as in plural.

That hole is getting deeper and deeper you dug for yourself Trav.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/14


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So AKA are you now claiming to be a gentile from the 10th house of one of the 10 tribes of Israel? Can you prove you are? DNA will be necessary here.


And TRAV I see you posted NO SCRIPTURE for the 10th house losing it's right to PHYSICAL CIRCUMCISION IN THE FLESH.


And Trav, please read ALL of Galatians and ALL of Galatians 4. The subject matter is Paul telling GENTILES who were seduced by the Pharisee Jews that Jesus was born of a woman, born of a JEW in order to "redeem" the Jews from the curse of the law. So he's asking Gentiles, why would YOU want to go back under the beggarly elements of LAW when Jews were redeemed form it. If Jews are redeemed from the LAW then Gentiles SO ARE YOU.

---kathr4453 on 12/15/14


Trav, ... PHYSICAL practice of circumcision. It may help so many of us to understand...
---kathr4453 on 12/13/14

Circumcision is Israels physical or spiritual mark. Nth House put away from GOD, lost their "Inclusive, Exclusive" right to this mark. Physically still Israel, physically and spiritually divorced from GOD.
Judah still physically carried the mark...not in their heart.
Circumcised heart, a mark/sign shows faith, hope, charity, humility, righteous judgment of ourselves, cleansed of prideful conceit of works. Revealing we are naturally wretched, poor, miserable, blind.
Be careful digging your ditches ...
Psa_7:15 He/she made a pit, digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.
---Trav on 12/15/14


//confusion..Romans 11... SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, so the Gentiles could be grafted in.//

Hi, Kath
if correct, this causes much confusion also. to graft any tree, scion branches are needed. a scion is a piece of last year's growth containing two buds that is inserted into the stock. in order to gather these scions, they must be broken off in the previous year. they are grafted back in later.
interestingly, this is the best way for a tree that bears no fruit.

here is the confusion for me: can i graft a cherry scion into a peach tree? or does the scion branch come from the peach tree?

so since the gentiles were grafted in with buds, were the gentiles from the olive tree or some other kind of fruit tree?
---aka on 12/15/14


Trav, ... took on the name of "ethnos"?
Can you explain?
---kathr453 on 12/13/14

"Ethnos", "nations".
Gal 4:4 when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
What disciple, Apostle, Christian will go against Christ or the Prophets? None.
A specific directive was given Matt 10:6 and Matt 15:24. Old Covenant is to 1 Nation the New Covenant is to the same Nation, Israel split, to be reunited.
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Hosea, (see Hos 1:11 / Hos 2:23) ... I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy, ...
---Trav on 12/15/14


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Trav, ... SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, so the ("ethnos") could be grafted in.
...hard one to explain using your theory.
---kath4453 on 12/13/14

Proof by GOD's hand chosen witnesses end theory.

1."Olive Tree" is, Israel. Jer 11:16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and "the branches of it are broken".
Jer 11:17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah,

Wild Olives same family as Cultivated Olives.
GOD doesn't break his own laws.
Lev_19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes...
---Trav on 12/15/14


Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Did the men of faith in the OT have the NT to read? The Scripture above shows how and why men have faith. God spoke to men in the OT and they received faith. He instructed them on how to build a tabernacle, conduct their worship, and practice their faith.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God . . .

The NT was authored by God, and written by men as God instructed. God's words whether authored by Him or spoken by Him, are still the only way men receive faith, and instruction in worship and practice.
---aservant on 12/13/14


Trav, verse 11 is clearly stating this is not talking about spiritual circumcision, or one inwardly or circumcised ears or heart. I need back up scripture where only Judah (2 houses) continued the PHYSICAL practice of circumcision. It may help so many of us to understand your doctrine. And can you provide any proof today of unbelieving Jews , that is Jews who do not believe Jesus is the Son of God from the 10 house Tribes have totally abandoned the practice of circumcision IN THE FLESH, and refer to themselves as the UNCIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH.
Ephesians 2:11-13

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands,
---kathr4453 on 12/13/14


Trav, Paul already established in Ephesians 2 he was not talking about the circumcision, which refers to ALL 12 tribes, but to Gentiles, who have always been referred to as the uncircumcised. We see this argument in Galatians.


Ephesians 2:11-13

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands,

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/14


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Trav, to continue the discussion, please consider Galatians. When did the 10th house decide to stop the practice of circumcision, and by that took on the name of Gentiles? And was the issue in Galatia Peter refusing to eat with those of the 10th house? And what scripture support do you have that Judah was forbidden to eat with or fellowship with the 10th house? We see Anna the prophetess in the Gospels was from the tribe of Issachar, one of the ones from the 10th house. Peter and James write to the dispersed, which includes the 10th house, yet Peter refused to fellowship with them in Galatia??????? I'm sure your same Greek/ Hebrew spelling is the same in these verses...that means what???? The 10th House?

Can you explain?
---kathr453 on 12/13/14


Trav, there also seems to be a confusion then with your interpretation of Romans 11.... SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, so the Gentiles could be grafted in. The SOME here, ..is the SOME here of Judah, or the 10th house? If you say "SOME" was "SOME" of the 10th house, what "SOME" of the tenth house would that be referred to as WILD AGAINST NATURE, and the remaining 10 are not? Scripture back up please for that. Also, after the Gentiles come in, your "SOME" of the 10th, those you now say are grafted back in, are referred to as the Natural branches, before they are even grafted back in.

That is going to be a hard one to explain using your theory.
---kath4453 on 12/13/14


Ephesians 3:5 6 That the "ethnos" should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the "good news":
Fellow heirs with who?

much to meditate...
---kathr4453 on 12/11/14

Appreciate the tone... is much to meditate and research.
Looking closely... "ethnos" the original word used here is speaking of the Divorced House of Ten. Being divorced were not fellow heirs but, are New Covenanted now. Key to all this being both covenants promises. Covenants made only with Israel. 12 in the old...10 and 2 in the New.
Everyone wants a Husband (Bridegroom) to have one wife...but, indignant when GOD does? Isa_62:5, Jer_16:9,
Jer_33:11, Joe_2:16,
---Trav on 12/13/14


The true worshipers worship the Father in spirit and in truth for the Father seeks such to whorship him. God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. God's true church is not made up of this denomination or that denomination, but is made up of individuals who worship God in spirit and truth. One does not need a denominational "church" to worship God. One can worship him in homes as the disciples and followers of Christ did. The belief that God's true church is a denomination will leave you in bondage to men.
---Steveng on 12/12/14


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Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets, ( not just Paul) by the Spirit,

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Verse 6.... Fellow heirs. Fellow heirs with who? Ans Israel...Jews ..and partakers of HIS PROMISE IN CHRIST by the Gospel.

Partakers with who? Ans: Israel, Jews.... Christ is not a partakers of His own self.



Here is much to meditate on Michael_e and Trav. Gentiles who are of neither HOUSE are fellow heirs.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/14


Are there 2 New Testaments? One for Israel, and another for the BOC? Did Paul make such a distinction in 2 Corinthians 3 when he quotes from the New Covenant Promises that were prophesied in the OT? Was Paul still blind when he wrote 2 Corinthians? I think not. Paul states in 2nd Corinthians he has already been carried up to the third heaven 14 years prior. So with that said, Paul also believes the New Covenant or Testament belongs to Gentiles as the Corinthians were Gentiles.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/14


Teaching we are under Israels NT confuses Gods prophetic purpose with his mystery purpose in Christ.
---michael_e on 12/11/14

Was Michael e for first 10 years.
Prophetic purpose? Prophets nullify your supposition.
11 prophets foretell the re-gathering of Israel. It becomes more visible notating that GOD was Married...Divorced...and promised Remarriage, to Israel.
Mystery you seek is explained. Divorced House of Israel is to be reunited by Christ death/sacrifice/redemption/new covenant and will be Heb 8:8. Rom 11:26. The called out ones "ekklesia". Lost sheep...Shepherd etc.
Only Israel had the Law. To be redeemed from it yet through it. Are u asking GOD to break his own covenants?
---Trav on 12/11/14


When Jesus spoke of the blood at Passover, the mystery hadn't been revealed (Mat 26:28). ///

So does that mean the Mystery is in the Blood? Or is the Mystery Christ in you as Colossians 1:24-27 clearly state?

I believe the "Blood" was spoken of when Abel sacrificed, all down through scripture, so no mystery there.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/14


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Teaching we are under Israels NT confuses Gods prophetic purpose with his mystery purpose in Christ.
Jeremiah, Israel's prophet, writing to Israel. 31:31-34 covenant made with the house of Israel. Heb. 8:8-12 house of Israel.
There is no house of Israel in the boC. Gal 3:28 neither Jew nor Gentile
Covenants were made with Israel, not boC, we have free grace.
The blood shed at the cross instituted the NT with Israel, His blood also preached to ALL men through the mystery.
When Jesus spoke of the blood at Passover, the mystery hadn't been revealed (Mat 26:28).
Israel from all countries (Eze 36:24). The boC doesn't have a country
The NT included law.(Heb 7:12). The mystery teaches not under law (Rom 6:14, Rom 7:4).
---michael_e on 12/11/14


Also remember under the Old Covenant sin was remembered year after year, it was never DONE AWAY. Under the NEW, sin is remembered NO MORE. Under the OLD, the day of atonement was once a year, under the NEW " sin was atoned for Once and for all.

Is the New Covenant written in your heart? The NEW deals with the NEW CREATURE. The Old dealt/deals with the OLD sin nature. Once you are a NEW CREATURE the New Covenant written in your heart is as 2 Cor 3 conclude,"we are being changed from GLORY to GLORY by the Spirit of the Lord, Not by any self effort.

SO those who steal lie murder only shows they have never entered into the NEW Covenant with Jesus, who is now our life.

Christ in you...the hope of GLORY.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/14


...only difference between the old law and "new" law is that the old law was physical in nature and "new" law is the old law in spirit.
---steveng

...Old is carried out on stone tablets the New on human hearts.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/14

Witnessed here:
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, write them in their hearts: I will be to them a God, they shall be to me a people:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
---Trav on 12/11/14


The only difference between the old law and the "new" law is that the old law was physical in nature and the "new" law is the old law in spirit.
---steveng

Your statement included the word "only", which disqualifies it.

2 Cor 3:1-11

The Old is the ministry of death. The New is ministry of life. The Old is the ministry of condemnation, the New is the ministry of righteousness. The Old is carried out on stone tablets and the New on human hearts.

And as you have stated, the Old is the ministry of the letter, the New is the ministry of the Spirit, as in Holy Spirit.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/14


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If not one word of the New Testament had ever been written down, how would that affect your faith, worship, or practice?//

New Testament as in New Covenant ..correct?

Well even the OT talks about the New Covenant and it's promises. Would people still be living by faith that the redeemer was still coming, denying that Jesus was/is in fact Jesus Christ, Son of God? Would they be living under LAW today where the LAW could NEVER save a flea? OR would they believe those New Covenant promises were now in effect? Isaiah 43:25, Hebrews 10:17 Hebrews 8:12. THAT's the New Covenant written in our heart. Read it!
---kathr4453 on 12/11/14


...fulness of the "ethnos" is when the BoC is complete
---michael_e on 12/10/14

Changed basis of your theory to original word above.
Theory needs scriptural witnesses. Rom 11:26 explains preceding verse.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, "brothers", that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, ...until the fulness of the "ethnos" (Nth House of Ten") be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: ...

New Covenant is prophesied and explicit. House of Israel (10) "and" Judah.
Eze 37 two sticks joined... "whole house".
See Ten virgins BoC preparing for bridegroom.
Seek all prophets if truth, is objective.
---Trav on 12/11/14


Mark_Eaton wrote: "I must disagree with this statement."

YOU may disagree, but prove me wrong using the bible - and not out of context.
---Steveng on 12/10/14


Rom 11:25..."blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."
the fulness of the Gentiles is when the BoC is complete
the Church is being formed mainly by Gentiles. God deals with Israel on two levels: National and personal. Gods adding individual believers from around the world, jew and gentile coming into the Body one at a time. When the BoC is complete we meet Christ "in the air" (1 Thess 4) that becomes the "until" of Rom 11:25. When God completes His work with the boC, He will turn to Israel, Of course, Israel and unbelieving gentiles go through the tribulation before Christ's return.
The boC are not covenant people
---michael_e on 12/10/14


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(Zech 8:22-23).
Israel won't always be blind...
---michael_e on 12/9/14

All Israel are not blind now.
Zechariah's "ten" in allegory are the Divorced Nth House of Israel. Not Judah.
Same "Ten" in allegory in the NT.
Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Judahite, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
(Judah has not accepted...many of the "ten" has all around you, or are you. There would be no Christianity, "light", "blessing" except for their service. Heb 8:10/Jer 31:31)
---Trav on 12/10/14


You are saying that we are to not keep the law. In other words we are to lie, steal, murder etc. In spite of what Romans 13:8-10 and 1John 3:3-5 say.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/9/14

When did I say this? You assumed this.

We are no longer compelled to fulfill the Law to receive righteousness because Jesus fulfilled the Law. We are made the righteousness of God by faith in Christ, not by actions or deeds. This is the grace of God (Eph. 2:9, Gal. 2:16)

But to mix keeping the Law with Grace is to attempt to serve in the oldness of the letter, not in the newness of the Spirit (Rom 7:6). Some consider it committing adultery against Jesus, because we have been made dead to the Law and have been joined with Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/10/14


What happened to Israel is in the knowledge of the revelation of the mystery (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:1). This information was hid Eph 3:9 Rom 11:11)
Writings to Israel prophesied their rise to superiority. (Zech 8:22-23).
It was kept secret that through Israels fall salvation would come to all. (Rom 11:25)
Today Israel is in unbelief so God could have mercy on all.(Rom 11:32, 3:24). Neither Jew nor Greek, and we know no man after the flesh (Gal 3:28, 2 Cor 5:16). All are able to obtain peace through Christ.
Israel won't always be blinded and their prophecies will be answered.
Scripture addressing Israel's fall and future return. (Rom 11:12, 11:26
God will restore Israel and fulfill prophecies concerning their earthly kingdom.
---michael_e on 12/9/14


The NEW frees us to liberty, frees us from the bondage of sin and death, gives us the Spirit as a pledge, and God has made us His righteousness through Jesus.

The OLD condemned us and killed us. It showed us our sin and bound us to it. It required us to keep the Law which could not make us righteous.

Mark_Eaton

I agree with your first statement. But the second is mistaken. The law still shows us we are sinners. Without the law we would not know we need a Savior. Galatians 3:24,25

You are saying that we are to not keep the law. In other words we are to lie, steal, murder etc. In spite of what Romans 13:8-10 and 1John 3:3-5 say.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/9/14


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I believe our Apostle explains it better than I can in 125.
---michael_e on 12/8/14

For truth, don't stop short. Rom 11 could seem to read as you propose. But, only by the non original word gentile. Which is not in any original scripture, Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. Using the original word "Ethnos/Nations Rom 11 context starts unfolding. Israel is divided Nth and Sth Houses. Judaic side, shunned/shuns the divorced Nth House of Ten .
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel (Judah), until the fulness of the ethnos (Nth House) be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved:...
---Trav on 12/9/14


The only difference between the old law and the "new" law is that the old law was physical in nature and the "new" law is the old law in spirit.
---Steveng on 12/8/14

I must disagree with this statement.

The NEW is not a reworking of the OLD.

The NEW frees us to liberty, frees us from the bondage of sin and death, gives us the Spirit as a pledge, and God has made us His righteousness through Jesus.

The OLD condemned us and killed us. It showed us our sin and bound us to it. It required us to keep the Law which could not make us righteous.

So which would you prefer? Life or death, freedom or bondage, righteousness or condemnation?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/9/14


Jesus never taught anything about the body of christ. He taught the gospel of the kingdom. Matt 4:23, Matt 24:14. Yes, He came to His Kingdom which was Israel at the time when He arrived but they rejected Him and He took the Kingdom away from them and gave it to another Nation who will bear the fruit thereof. Matt 21:42-46. He told them that their HOUSE WAS LEFT TO THEM DESOLATE....NINTH HOUSE AND ALL. Matt 23:37-39. There is only one way into the Kingdom and it is the same way that it was in the beginning, (Rev 12:17) keep the commandments of God and if we wish to stay in the kingdom we will also have to know and practice the testimony of Jesus because He is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets not the end of it. Matt 5:17.
---barb on 12/9/14


michael_e sorry about michael_eon. Phone does stuff.

Since the mystery was revealed to paul, there is no better explanation. Nevertheless,you have more than 125.

What is Israel's future and what happens to the boc?
---aka on 12/9/14


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Jesus and the apostles often taught from scripture. What scripture were they teaching from since the NT did not exist?

The only difference between the old law and the "new" law is that the old law was physical in nature and the "new" law is the old law in spirit. E.g. in the old law if you murdered someone it was a sin. The "new" law say if you hate your brother in your heart, you have already murdered him. God says "if you love me obey my commandments." Love, true love, as in the verb form, is your ticket to heaven. You worship God in the spirit.
---Steveng on 12/8/14


//I know it in Paul's words, but i would like to hear your explanation.
---aka on 12/8/14//
I believe our Apostle explains it better than I can in 125.
---michael_e on 12/8/14


Rom.11 Explains Israel's future---michael_eon 12/8

I know it in Paul's words, but i would like to hear your explanation.
---aka on 12/8/14


//are you saying that they will?
---aka on 12/8/14//
Yes
Rom.11 Explains Israel's future
---michael_e on 12/8/14


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If not one word of the New Testament had ever been written down, how would that affect your faith,...
---Cluny on 12/5/14

New Covenant testament, with both Houses of Israel. Laws written in their hearts. Being written, it's obvious who has these laws and acts upon these laws.
Your Church family tried to keep these writings from "the Sheep" and didn't succeed. GOD circumvented your so called Churches daughters anyway. You can't stop GOD...even with your vote.
Heb 8:8 ...saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:10 ...I will put my laws into their mind, write them in their hearts: I will be to them a God, they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 12/8/14


Christs earthly ministry was to Israel ...he also created a new creature called the church, the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27).
---michael_e on 12/8/14

You are one of 4 who has ever acknowledged Israel in prophetic scripture in 6 years here. None were preachers.
You will have trouble locating prophets for your new creature. Who becomes as one body? Husband and wife. From the beginning of scripture to the end one can find the actual and the allegorical of "Marriage, putting away and remarriage".
Consider:
Mar_10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Hos 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel ...
Isa_62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken,...
---Trav on 12/8/14


As a nation, Israel has no spiritual standing with God in this present dispensation.
---michael_e on 12/7/14

are you saying that they will?
---aka on 12/8/14


Christ did more than mediate for the new testament made with Israel, he also created a new creature called the church, the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27).
---michael_e on 12/8/14

Having written all this, you still avoided the point that we are no longer under the Old Covenant, we are under the New. The Old is fulfilled by Jesus and the New gives life, not death.

2 Cor. 3:3 "who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life".
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/14


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\\Cluny, consider that we have nothing from the new testament that tells us that the eyewitness disciples ever went to Rome.\\

barb, I said "Roman world" not the city of Rome.

In any case, the same tradition that gave us the NT to start with says that St. Peter went to Rome.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/14


//Jeremiah prophesied of the New Covenant in Jer. 31. The blood of Jesus sealed the New Covenant. Jesus said so himself in Luke 22:20.//
Incidentally Luke is still OT(Heb 9:16,17)
Jeremiah was Israel's prophet
(Jere 31:31-34 Heb 8:8-12)
The New Covenant was part of Gods prophesied purpose to make a peculiar people(Israel) on the earth to bless all nations (Gentiles) (Exo 19:5-6).
The New Covenant would accomplish for Israel what the Old could not, provide Israel the ability to serve God in righteousness on the earth.
Christs earthly ministry was to Israel (Rom 15:8)
Christ did more than mediate for the new testament made with Israel, he also created a new creature called the church, the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27).
---michael_e on 12/8/14


The general understanding is that if we are not under the Old Testament then we must necessarily be under the New Testament. This is not true.
---michael_e on 12/6/14

If we are not under the New Covenant, then why did Jesus die?

Jeremiah prophesied of the New Covenant in Jer. 31. The blood of Jesus sealed the New Covenant. Jesus said so himself in Luke 22:20.

We are no longer under the law. Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law and now we can rest in His finished work.

Rom 7:6 "But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/14


Hebrews says the NT would be made with the house of Israel.
There's no house of Israel in the boC Christ. As a nation, Israel has no spiritual standing with God ... They have been counted in unbelief ...
---michael_e on 12/7/14

You're 1/12th in understanding Michael. Judah 1/12th of Israel doesn't believe after 2014 yrs. Nth House of ten was the next designated recipient...they took it and ran with it. They are the "ethnos" BOC. Note Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the "ETHNOS" be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved:...
---Trav on 12/8/14


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"I don't know who wrote Jude, brother of Jesus or eyewitness disciple?
---barb on 12/7/14"

The book of Jude is attributed to Jude, the brother of James the Just, the brother of Jesus. Just fyi
---joseph on 12/8/14


"Consider that the Apostles made disciples all over the Roman world without ONE WORD of the NT being written." ---Cluny on 12/7/14
True, and it is through their inspired written words, which make up the NT, that we as believers are made disciples today through the direct Divine inspiration, influence, and empowerment of the Father. Faith grows by understanding, and understanding the things of the Spirit is received through our Father's word, as received and conveyed through the letters and written testimony of His sent ones. "So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Of course the audible words of the Apostles are not available to the believer today, therefore what is written is essential.
---joseph on 12/7/14


The NT wasn't a mystery. Descriptions of the NT are found in the law, prophets, and psalms. The prophetic nature of Israels new covenant contrasts the hidden nature of the fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9).
Jeremiah a prophet of Israel.
Jer 31:31 is clear the new covenant is made with the house of Israel, and with the House of Judah.
Hebrews says the NT would be made with the house of Israel.
The operation of the church today is found Pauls in writings. There's no house of Israel in the boC Christ. As a nation, Israel has no spiritual standing with God in this present dispensation. They have been counted in unbelief just as the Gentiles Rom 11:32). There's neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ (Gal 3:28).
---michael_e on 12/7/14


1stCliff, all the eleven remaining disciples were eyewitnesses but when I refer to eyewitness accounts I'm talking about the gospels of Matthew and John plus John's epistles and the Revelation. They are in agreement with the Law and the Prophets and may be the
only eyewitness writings that we have. The epistle of James was written by Jesus' brother not the apostle James and the epistle of Peter is believed by scholars to have been written after Peter's death. The gospel of Mark is believed to have been written by Mark as Peter's eyewitness account and agrees with the gospels of Matthew and John. I don't know who wrote Jude, brother of Jesus or eyewitness disciple?
---barb on 12/7/14


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barb, As eyewitnesses you're referring to Matthew, John,Peter, James and Jude ?
---1stcliff on 12/7/14


Cluny, consider that we have nothing from the new testament that tells us that the eyewitness disciples ever went to Rome. They were still alive at that time anyway and expected Jesus to return in their lifetime so where would we be if they had not realized their mistake and written down their eyewitness accounts? We would be right where the devil wants us in the dark. Every lying spirit and false apostle would have distorted and misquoted the Word of God. Fortunately, for those who seek truth God made sure that His eyewitness apostles wrote down and remembered everything He taught them. Just as He told them in John 14:26.
---barb on 12/7/14


**"Without the eyewitness writings of Jesus' disciples all believers would be like the Jews, still waiting for their Messiah." barb on 12/6/14

This statement reflects my thoughts as well as concerning this question.
---joseph on 12/7/14**

Consider that the Apostles made disciples all over the Roman world without ONE WORD of the NT being written.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/14


"Without the eyewitness writings of Jesus' disciples all believers would be like the Jews, still waiting for their Messiah." barb on 12/6/14

This statement reflects my thoughts as well as concerning this question.
---joseph on 12/7/14


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\\The teaching that we are under Israels New Testament confuses Gods prophetic purpose in Christ with his mystery purpose in Christ.\\

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "prophetic purpose" and "mystery purpose"?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/6/14


The new testament is a continuation and fulfillment of a promise made in the old testament. God told John to write down the Revelation so it makes sense that He would make sure that His beloved disciple and Matthew also wrote their eyewitness accounts of His life, teachings and death. John 14:26.

Without the eyewitness writings of Jesus' disciples all believers would be like the Jews, still waiting for their Messiah.

Many people believe by faith that everything in the new testament is the truth but won't put forward the effort to find evidence for their belief.

---barb on 12/6/14


One common hindrance in understanding how to rightly divide the word of truth has been the generally wrong teaching about the New Covenant. The general understanding is that if we are not under the Old Testament then we must necessarily be under the New Testament. This is not true.

There is a purpose separate from Israels covenants called the mystery of Christ (Eph 3:4, Col 4:3). The mystery of Christ is the keystone of what God has been doing for the past two thousand years. The teaching that we are under Israels New Testament confuses Gods prophetic purpose in Christ with his mystery purpose in Christ.
---michael_e on 12/6/14


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