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Meaning Of Christmas

Are we remembering the true meaning of Christmas?

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 ---Maria on 12/8/14
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'Christmas... is a day that the world spends a little time thinking about JESUS'- Sanuelbb7.

Really? Does the world think about Jesus on that day? Your view of that day is certainly over-rated.

How does "the world" treat xmas? For many, xmas is an excuse to get drunk, over eat, over spend etc... Granted it may not be the case in your household, but do you really want to be associated with an event that has nothing to do with scripture or Jesus Christ? Even Warwick admits xmas has been "Taken from Mithraism".

Consider the principle of community responsibility- Gen.19:15. Would a born again want to be associated with a pagan festival of drunkeness, gluttony and debauchery?- Jo.17:16.
---David8318 on 12/13/14


Warwick, Morenz makes the case against the trinity not me or the WTS. No I don't deny Morenz believed the trinity and that in his opinion it was Biblical.

Are you saying the following was not written by Morenz:

'the trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians.. three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology.'

In fact, you have done exactly the same as Morenz. By saying you have 'Taken from Mithraism, given to Christ' (12/10/14), you like Morenz show that the Dec.25 xmas celebration has 'direct links' with paganism. You like Morenz are "Bible trashers".
---David8318 on 12/13/14


"Silly question." Marc

For you and Warwick it may be the most meaningful question on the thread.

Check the title of this thread above..."The meaning of Christmas."

Your inability to answer the simple question in support of your friends assertion speaks volumes. I think we have our answer.

Thanks.
---scott on 12/13/14


David8,I was thinking that a response would not benefit either of us. Neither of us celebrate that day for that reason. I enjoy any day that I get to spend with my family. And I am not going to complain about how I got it.
---aka on 12/13/14


Sorry, Scott, I won't answer your silly question. Your dishonesty and evasiveness again show through.

Can't you answer a simple question? No, typical Watchtower trained dishonesty and self-righteousness always trumps.

Right now, if you were to die, do you know you will inherit eternal life in Paradise?

This is a test to see if you are honest. You only have to answer the question.
---Marc on 12/12/14




David, certainly Morenz is a Bible trasher who you deceitfully and vainly misquoted to make a case against the Trinity.

Are you saying the following was not written by Morenz?:

"In order to avoid any gross misunderstanding, we must at once emphasize that the substance of the Christian Trinity is of course Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."

David a 'lie' is untruth knowingly told. I have not lied, I believe (like your Morenz) that the Trinity is Biblical. However by knowingly misquoting Morenz you have lied.

I associate (in fact equate) Jesus with God, not Mithra or any other pagan.
---Warwick on 12/12/14


"huff and puff..." Marc

And still no answer. Hmmm just the permeating aroma of red-herring.

Open a thread on salvation and I'm happy to oblige. In the meantime let's see if Marc will answer the question:

What scriptural example can you cite where God has ever done what Warwick has suggested? That "God took it [pagan Christmas] from false Gods and gave it to those who follow Jesus."

What scriptural precedent is there for this reasoning?
---scott on 12/12/14


'a Bible trasher is'- Warwick.

I agree Morenz is a Bible trasher. He is a Bible trasher because he like YOU associates the unBiblical pagan trinity with the Bible. We quote Morenz because he as a Professor of Egyptology can see quite clearly the link between your trinity dogma with ancient pagan Egypt.

I haven't misquoted Morenz at all. The lies and deceit are all from you Warwick.

It is you Warwick who perversely "takes from Mithraism" and associates it with Christ. It is you Warwick who lyingly associates the pagan trinity with the Bible. Your apostate pagan identity is laid bare for all to see.
---David8318 on 12/12/14


Well David I and the Seventh day Adventist church teach against drinking alcohol and we teach against debauchery. We also advocate living healthfully and not over eating. So you have just lied about me and my church. Christmas is not a day of worship to me or my church. It is a day that the world spends a little time thinking about JESUS. Which you oppose by lies. I recognize (2Corithians6:14-18)
We just spend some time using it to witness and have fun with our children. You are saying it is bad to remember the Birth of JESUS CHRIST. He is after all our savior. Have you been Born Again? If not then you are following Belial and not listening to the words of JESUS. John 3.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/12/14


"The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament..." Warwick

And where exactly are the three mentioned "alongside one another"?

Do tell.

You mean like "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..." being mentioned together at Acts 3:13?
---scott on 12/12/14




Sav lasav,sav lasav,kay lakay, kay lakay (Isa.28.10) does not sound like a group i like to be a part of ! huh?
---1stcliff on 12/12/14


Again see David's brazen deceit. The full quote of Morenz, a Bible trasher is :

"trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians.. three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology."

"In order to avoid any gross misunderstanding, we must at once emphasize that the substance of the Christian Trinity is of course Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."

Note-David avoided the parts in bold because Morenz says Trinity is Biblical!
---Warwick on 12/12/14


David: "I am and have been saved not because of anything I'm doing or have done"

So, David, do you, right now, know that you will spend eternity on earth? Yes or no.

Scott, no huff and puff from me just demonstrating the very real tension between the JW self-righteousness, on the one hand, and their lack of any belief and trust concerning the salvation that Jesus has already given to us. The Bible declares it's a present assurance, not a future one which you have to do works in order to, just maybe, earn. "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness"

No JW can say they are saved, NOW. I've met 1000s and it's the same nescience.
---marc on 12/12/14


"As far as God taking anything from the false deities, what do you think the conquest of Canaan was about?" Cluny

Are you suggesting that God sanctioned the Jewish assimilation or adoption of false, idolatrous, Canaanite customs and celebrations after their conquest?

Example(s) please.
---scott on 12/12/14


A decorative tree with all of the other decor, Colo.2 v 8.

A nativity scene shows - has the greater meaning.
---Lawrence on 12/12/14


"Grrrrr, harumff and arrrgh" Marc

In all of Marc's huffery and puffery was there a response to the scriptural example of the presumptuous futility regarding Arron, the golden calf and trying to make something unholy holy?

Right. Though not.
---scott on 12/12/14


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'they are saved right this moment'

Does salvation come from:

1. stealing a holy-day from paganism and then perpetuating the lie that Jesus was born on that pagan holy-day, or

2. believing in the false polytheist trinity dogma who even a Professor of Egyptology and trinitarian recognised Christendoms trinity consists of 'Three gods' and has 'direct links' with pagan Egyptian theology.

Is the route to salvation through pagan philosophy? Absolutely not.

My salvation is not based on pagan philosophy. I am and have been saved not because of anything I'm doing or have done, but on the basis of Christ's sacrifical death- Ro.5:18.
---David8318 on 12/12/14


I love it when Team Watchtower, the self-righteous JW duo David and Scott, come out unmuzzled. Yes, folks, parading all their perfect, I say, PERFECT doctrine before us pagan Trinitarians. And yet, all their perfect doctrine and belonging to God's only organisation doesn't guarantee them a single iota of assurance that they are saved right this moment. The only thing that they have to hang onto is the belief that they belong to God's appointed organisation and that they are doing works that they might be saved.

Face it guys, you fear that you will not have eternal life on earth. Christ brings you no rest from your works.
---marc on 12/12/14


\\The xmas apologists putting lipstick on the proverbial pig is hilarious.\\

If you think you're making a stand for God by using this spelling, know that you are not.

The X in the standard abbreviation is the first letter of the Greek spelling XPICTOC, which also appears in such abbreviations as Xn (Christian) and Xnity (Christianity).

As far as God taking anything from the false deities, what do you think the conquest of Canaan was about?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/12/14


'God took it from false Gods and gave it to those who follow Jesus'- Warwick.

The xmas apologists putting lipstick on the proverbial pig is hilarious.

What scriptural example can you cite where God has done what Warwick has suggested?

When Aaron made the golden calf, an act of idolatry and false worship, he attempted to play this down by saying "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD [YHWH-Jehovah]." Ex 32:5 NIV

Did God overlook this false worship because Aaron tried to dress it up with the appearance of true worship, even attaching the name of God to it?

The origins of Christmas are clearly pagan. Attaching the name of "Christ" to it doesn't make it "Christian."
---scott on 12/12/14


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'Morenz'- Warwick.

I've avoided your hijacking of this blog so far, because Morenz comments about your pagan trinity, not your pagan xmas.

Professor of Egyptology and trinitarian Morenz wrote that 'Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology'. That's what he wrote, that's what we quote. No lies, no deceit.

Like your pagan Mithra-mas celebration which you've already admitted, Morenz also shows your trinity corruption is also pagan. Paganism breeds paganism.

No doubt those 20 pages are written by other rabid, pagan "Warwick trinitarians" foaming at the mouth.
---David8318 on 12/12/14


'you do realize that anniversaries are celebrations of a birth'- aka.

I never said anything about anniversaries other than to ask what do you mean by "celebrating" them? What point are you trying to make?

I'm still waiting for you to show me where such things as wedding veils, eating a wedding cake, going on vacation after a wedding etc... have their origins in paganism (your post 12/9/14).

Otherwise your noise and bluster is irrelevant.
---David8318 on 12/12/14


'All the days of the week are name after Pagan gods... SO What'- Samuelbb7.

I agree... SO What!? I don't associate my worship with a day of the week in the same way you associate your worship with what Warwick says is 'taken from Mithraism' or paganism, and lyingly use it in your worship to represent Jesus' birth. Not only that, you include all the drunken feasting and debauchery that was/is associated with Mithramas on Dec.25.

'What harmony is there between Christ and Belial' Sam? (2Cor.6:14-18). I don't use the names of the week in my worship the same way you use Mithraism in yours. What you fail to realise is the instruction at 2Cor.6:14-18 to 'touch nothing unclean' has everything to do with our worship. Will God 'recieve you'?
---David8318 on 12/12/14


David, it is always interesting to write about your misquotes and part quotes, as I did regarding Morenz. You know what I wrote exposes the depth of your dishonesty. How do I know you are exposed as a liar? Because you avoid any answer, knowing I am right, and hoping it will just go away.

Further to the deceit which infests the WTS I recently found a site which lists the false prophecies and predictions the WTS has made. I would reproduce them here but they run to 20 pages. Yes that's right, 20 pages!
---Warwick on 12/11/14


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\\David, Marc and Samuel make good points. If you were born on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday you were born of a Pagans day! Shock horror and shiver me timbers, that, by your reasoning, makes you a pagan!\\

Except in Greek the days of the week are called, Lord's day, Second day, Third day, Fourth day, Fifth day, Preparation, Sabbath.

Are numbers pagan?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/14


David8, you do realize that anniversaries are celebrations of a birth.

Anyway, for those of you who are vehemently judging other people,if you are normally scheduled to work on 12.25, you should work like normal. We pagans do not appreciate that you cannot take OUR day off badgering us and most importantly the supreme Iehovah of many little God's would not appreciate that you, being most holy, would consider giving even the slightest hint that you are participating in yearly pagan ritual.
---aka on 12/11/14


David, Marc and Samuel make good points. If you were born on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday you were born of a Pagans day! Shock horror and shiver me timbers, that, by your reasoning, makes you a pagan!
---Warwick on 12/11/14


Warwick, Trav, aka, samuelbb7 are suckers for paganism and have taken the pagan god Mithra and sullied the name of Christ.

---David8318

First David I am only known as Samuelbb7. I am a member of the Seventh day Adventist church. You worship on the day dedicated by the Pagans to Sun worship. So does that mean you worship Mithra?

Marc makes a good point. All the days of the week are name after Pagan gods.

Yet you still use those names. I know that Christmas was originally pagan. English originally came from German. SO What?

No one here that I know bows down to pagan idols.

You are making a false accusation and becoming an accuser of the Brethren. Is that what you wish to make false accusation?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/11/14


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"Hey, David, wanna meet up next Wodin's Day, Thor's Day, Freya's Day or even Saturn's Day [i.e. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday]?"

"No, sorry Marc, I can't as these days celebrate pagan days and we as JWs can't be seen to supporting pagan deities."

"But, hang on, don't you say that the creature and angel Michael created the entire universe? Isn't that paganism too?"

"Look, Marc, I'm not here to argue with you but just to tell you that "To [possibly, maybe] receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." (Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12)
---Marc on 12/11/14


That's why Herod ordered the death of all boys under 2 in Bethlehem. Trav believes God "allowed" that! What a perverse teaching!
---David8318 on 12/11/14

He didn't stop it. But, an Angel did come to Joseph.

Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
"Yeshua", may your peace and freedom come upon Davideightythreeeighteen.
Pro_16:27 An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire.
---Trav on 12/11/14


David: "If your god enjoys paganism, perhaps you should get a real God."
The Watchtower "God" is one who can't actually create himself but requires the help of an angel. The New World Mistranslation is unrepentant and does not hide this well-known ancient Gnosticism facet, for your "bible" states, "By this angel all [other] things were created."
David, people in glass houses...

Anyway, we're all happy you tick all the correct [self]righteous boxes, David. But of course, you still don't know if you're saved, do you David. Gotta keep on trying by your own effort to do all the right things, keep on struggling, and then just maybe, just maybe, God may accept your self-effort.
---Marc on 12/11/14


Warwick has "Taken from Mithraism, given to Christ" (12/10/14).

Is God now using paganism as the likes of Warwick, Trav and aka believe? The Bible says otherwise:

'What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?... Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing and I will recieve you'- 2Cor.6:14-18.

There is no harmony between Christ and Belial (or Mithra). Has God changed to accomodate Warwick's pagan fetish? Nop...

'Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever'- Heb.13:8.

Warwick, Trav, aka, samuelbb7 et al are suckers for paganism and have taken the pagan god Mithra and sullied the name of Christ. Can they be 'recieved' by God?
---David8318 on 12/11/14


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'GOD allowing children to die the Herod period'- Trav.

Trav believes God was instrumental in the failed attempt to kill his own son Jesus! That's why Herod ordered the death of all boys under 2 in Bethlehem. Trav believes God "allowed" that! What a perverse teaching!

Trav you can say all you want about my beliefs... but its blatantly obvious your understanding is corrupt and apostate.

If you want to lay the murder of innocent young children and the attempted murder of Jesus at the feet of Almighty God... I'm sure that's a heavy burden to carry.

Deal with it Trav- you and Warwick are one and the same, worshipping the false pagan god Mithra on its birthday December 25.
---David8318 on 12/11/14



Did God make a mistake in sending them first to Herod who then ordered the slaughter a all boys under 2 years old?

---David8318 on 12/11/14

Like you warwick is not free either. Trapped by your denom business organizations beliefs.
Your concerns are non issues to me and mine. We honor Christ.
We don't worship Mithras or honor your fears in misunderstanding.
Freedom.
My GOD and his Son do what they do and I'm O.K. with it.
If you have issues with GOD allowing children to die the Herod period or Egyptian kids.
See GOD. They are his to do with as desired.
See O.T. witnesses Bible.
Psa 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
---Trav on 12/11/14


'Point of the 3 wise men'- Trav.

What makes you believe the Maji astrologers from the East were sent by God? Do you think they were God's people? Did God make a mistake in sending them first to Herod who then ordered the slaughter a all boys under 2 years old? Are you saying God is responsible for this massacre?

Everyone knows the letter J is not in Hebrew. what's your point about me mispronouncing God's name?

What you and Warwick need to do is free yourself from the pagan Mithra celebrations on December 25. Warwick at least admits he has taken Mithraism and substituted it for Christ. You continue to push the lie that December 25 is fine for Jesus' birth
---David8318 on 12/11/14


You don't pronouce Jesus name correctly,....
---David8318 on 12/10/14

David, There was no "j" in Hebrew. To nit pick like Pharisee's go all the way.
Point of the 3 wise men who were "foretold" of his birth...had sense enough to honor it.
There is speculation on the date...since no one including you can prove it...the 25th is fine. Worship of Christ is not forbidden (Yet).
Your beliefs are are more unproven and more extreme than Christmas.
Free yourself first from all mens denom's...showing wisdom. Then some might listen.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
---Trav on 12/11/14


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'You [attempt] to connect paganism with Christianity'- Warwick.

You've already made that connection Warwick! You've demonstrated the connection between paganism and flase-christianity. Your antichrist C & MA cult has "Taken from Mithraism, given to Christ". Your apostate cult has taken what is pagan and blasphemously connected it with Christ. 'There is no harmony between Christ and Belial'- 2Cor.6:14-18.

Just as I anticipated, time and time again you hijack blogs because you are inept at arguing the point at hand. You can't argue the point at hand because obvioulsy you have no defence for your real pagan identity.
---David8318 on 12/11/14


David, we have one God who is Spirit. You have three: Jehovah, the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and a god John 1:1.

You lie (again) in attempting to connect paganism with Christianity. There is one Creator, Redeemer, and Saviour-Jesus the living God.

You engage in duplicity. You say the Holy Spirit is an inanimate force, but then say we blaspheme your inanimate force! Blasphemy, in the Biblical sense, is an attack upon the person of God, not upon an inanimate force. Next you will say electricity can be blasphemed.

You JWs are exposed here as liars e.g. by part or miss-quotes you have offered. There is a site which lists your deceit. I cannot here provide a link, however Mr Google will help.
---Warwick on 12/10/14


David, Once upon a time I was just like you, arguing paganism vs Christianity.(more than 20 years) witnessing the double standards of the "brothers" You can give a toy (long as it's not wrapped) Eat the turkey dinner but pretend that it's just another meal!
Do not vote in municipal elections, but by a "show of hands" vote to pave the Kingdom Hall parking lot!
My brother ,who is an Elder is a drunk ! (hushed up)
Conclusion, Idealism is as impractical as the Jews trying to live by the "Law"!
Believe in the ransoming power of Christ, the rest is falderal !
---1stcliff on 12/10/14


'Wise Men'-trav.

The Gospel account says they came from the East, likely Babylon being the seat of astrology and magic as these 'maji' were (Matt.2:1). The Bible doesn't say the Maji or the star were sent by God. The star led them first to Herod who wanted the maji to tell him where Jesus was so that he could kill the 'new king'.

Thanks to the star and the 'maji' astrologers from the east bent on celebrating a birth led to the massacre of every boy under 2years in Bethlehem, forcing Jesus' family to flee to Egypt.

You don't pronouce Jesus name correctly, and you actively promote the pagan Mithra-mas festival, duped by your cult pagan leaders into thinking its Jesus' birthday!
---David8318 on 12/10/14


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David you blatantly misquoted Morenz to support your Trinity is pagan falsehood. "trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians. ... three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology."

But BiblioSceptic Morenz continued "In order to avoid any gross misunderstanding, we must at once emphasize that the substance of the Christian Trinity is of course Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."


Deceit is the norm for you!
---Warwick on 12/10/14


David, following your 'reasoning' if someone is born on 25th December they become pagan!
---Warwick on 12/10/14


'now God has taken it from these long dead false Gods and given it to those who follow Jesus'- Warwick.

You mean your pagan trinity of gods have adopted the pagan Mithra-mas (xmas) festival. But its your cult pagan leaders before you that have adopted paganism, not Jesus or Almighty God.

You go beyond what the Bible teaches if you believe Almighty God has embraced paganism, and you blaspheme the holy spirit. You carry on! Actually, you are doing us JW's a great service because the honest person who wants to know the truth are embracing the truth that your gabbled twisting of scripture to fit your pagan fetish is false.

The God of Jesus Christ however has never used pagan festivals or dates.
---David8318 on 12/10/14


'God has taken it from these long dead false Gods and given it to those who follow Jesus. Taken from Mithraism, given to Christ...'- Warwick.

Warwick believes God is now using paganism and that we should all embrace the birthday of the pagan god Mithra.

Thankfully, God says otherwise:

'For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?... Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing...' 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (NIV).

What sharing does Christ have with Belial (or Mithra)? Who will you believe... Warwick, or God's word the Bible?
---David8318 on 12/10/14


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David, the unbalanced, changing, beliefs of the WTS make you appear foolish. That Christians choose to remember that God sent our Saviour on 25th December has nothing to do with paganism. Actually I think it ironic that we should use this day to honour the coming of the Saviour. It had been used to honour pagan deities (as had countless other days) now God has taken it from these long dead false Gods and given it to those who follow Jesus. Taken from Mithraism, given to Christ, the living God.

It occurs to me to be akin to a mosque falling into disuse and becoming a place to praise and worship Jesus Christ our Creator, Redeemer and Saviour!
---Warwick on 12/10/14


'So why do you put down that which we can use to help others know about JESUS?'- Samuelbb7.

Why don't you try using the Bible to teach others about Jesus Sam? I suppose its difficult for you to do so because it doesn't contain December 25, Santa Claus, the yultide log, Xmas trees etc... None of the mithra-mas (xmas) traditions are inspired by the holy spirit, so they have no bearing on our understanding of Jesus. Instead xmas gives a distorted, selfish "me first" view of life.

You say, 'There is a Bible command to keep a day Holy'. But where does that command tell us to use paganism to do so?
---David8318 on 12/10/14


'It's right after the verse that commands you to use a computer and the internet'- Cluny.

I fully agree Cluny- the celebration of birthdays is just as irrelevant and unimportant as using a computer or the internet. They have no bearing on our worship and relationship with God and his son Jesus Christ.

Glory to Jehovah God.
---David8318 on 12/10/14


\\It would be even better if someone could show me where in the Bible does any of God's people either Israelites or 1st Century Christians celebrated their birthdays.\\

It's right after the verse that commands you to use a computer and the internet to spread your doctrines.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/14


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'We do not celebrate Diwali, for example, because it has nothing to do with Jesus coming!'- Warwick.

Neither does "christmas" or the date December 25. Neither does a christmas tree, or Satan Claus (sorry I meant 'santa') have anything to do with Jesus' coming.

If you consider the Mithra-mas (you call it christmas) celebration a valid festival, then you might just as well celebrate Diwali. Neither have anything to do with Jesus' coming.

The December 25 date set by pagans and the celebrations that go with it that false christians hijacked long before you came on the scene were not inspired by the holy spirit and is thus not true. It is a false religious festival- John 4:24 & 14:17.
---David8318 on 12/10/14


Jesus' birthday...
---David8318 on 12/10/14

The Three Wise Men...get it Wise Men brought gifts on his Birthday.
They came a long ways...guided by a Star. A Star...think about it a while.
You guys proselytizing errors and in error, failed at prophecies, eat and drink with pagans, heathens all over the world...today. You don't even pronounce GOD's name correct. Considered by the entire world as a cult, who are you again... to judge worship of Christ birth?

Exo_23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
---Trav on 12/10/14


Warwick, Christians don't use the pagan Mithra-mas (note the true meaning- 'Mithra') to recognise Jesus' role as saviour. True Christians do this every day of their lives. The context of the verse you use at 1Cor.15:22 shows its Jesus' death that releases us from sin. That's probably why Jesus commanded his true disciples to remember him at the time of his death... not his birth (Luke 22:19) otherwise I'm sure he would have said so.

And yes the Jews were scrupulous time keepers as the Luke and John scriptures you cite demonstrate. But neither verse command us to celebrate Jesus' birthday as Jesus commands re his death at Luke 19:22. What is material about Dec.25 is the fact that you and godless pagans are united in 'worship'.
---David8318 on 12/10/14


David, at Christmas (note the Christ) Christians celebrate the fact that our Creator, Redeemer, and Saviour came to overturn the effects of Adams sin-1 Corinthians 15:22. That it is or isn't the actual day the Son of Man was born is immaterial. That He came and that we appreciate it above all other blessings, is the point. There is nothing pagan in this.

We do not celebrate Diwali, for example, because it has nothing to do with Jesus coming!

As regards birthdays read John 9:21. If birthdays were ignored as evil why does Luke 3:23 read "Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age." If birthdays were not noted or ignored as evil how did they know his age? The same applies for Luke 2:22.
---Warwick on 12/9/14


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'These are various practices that clearly have their origins in ancient paganism'- aka.

I agree rice throwing and wedding rings have pagan conotations of which I disagree with. What do you mean by "celebrating" anniversaries? But please can you show me what proof you have that these activities you cite (eating wedding cakes?) have their origins in paganism.

Also, unlike the pagan christmas, none of the activities you cite have a direct bearing on our worship of God and our understanding of Jesus Christ. The pagan Mithra-mas (or "christmas") celebration has clear unambiguous links to and origins in paganism. Can you show me the same for your 'pagan' list?
---David8318 on 12/10/14


Hi Celebrating xmass means acknowledging that christ was born for us to be able to be reconciled to God. This is very special to mankind and it does not matter whether he was not born on this particular day what is important is what this day stands for. God bless you all.
---Maureen_Adhiambo on 12/10/14


A Bible student can easily discern a pagan or unchristian festival.
---David8318 on 12/9/14

Discerning...and is why Christians don't worship the donkey that brought Joseph and Mary. (some do worship through Mary)

You had no comment for the 3 wise men bringing birthday gifts?

1Co_8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Heb_13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

(But, by your decree D. ..."continually"... falls on all heathen holidays...25th Dec included)
---Trav on 12/10/14


David8318,

I never said there was such a verse. I do not think 12/25 is jesus' birthday. I do not celebrate this day as such.

Let me ask you, david8, have you as a jw ever participated in: rice throwing at a wedding, had a honeymoon, celebrated anniversaries, have wedding rings, wife wear wedding veil, eaten wedding cakes?

These are various practices that clearly have their origins in ancient paganism.

Has jesus ever commanded these? Show me one verse.
---aka on 12/9/14


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No David I do not observe those. I celebrate the Birth of JESUS CHRIST on December 25 even though it is not the actual Birth date. But it is a tradition that does not hurt.

As for the Muslim holy days you posted are not a tradition that promotes the belief in JESUS CHRIST. So why do you put down that which we can use to help others know about JESUS?

There is a Bible command to keep a day Holy. Why do you ignore it?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/9/14


We live in the great white north where winter sun is very limited.
So, apart from any religious connection it's hard to imagine the dark dreary days without colored lights . No wonder they celebrated the winter solstice.
SAD (seasonal affective
disorder) causes wide spread depression !
Winter would be intolerable in a "witness" world !
---1stcliff on 12/9/14


'There is no scripture against Christmas'- Samuelbb7.

There is no scripture against celebrating Diwali, larentalia, Ramadan or even Milad Un Nabi.

Does samuelbb7 also observe these unchristian festivals? They're not condemned in the Bible.

A Bible student can easily discern a pagan or unchristian festival. However, a physical man is unable to discern spiritual things... evidently because he is concerned with events and dates uninspired by the holy spirit- 1Cor.2:14,15 Gal.4:10,11.
---David8318 on 12/9/14


Maria: I think born again Christian do indeed remember & since we really don't know the actual date of Jesus' birth, "we (His Church) have chosen December 25th" to celebrate the fact that the Son of God was born into the world to save us from death, hell & the grave.

Obviously, many people (some on these blogs) are blinded, by of their religious unbelief, to the facts (reality) of the matter.

Good question. Thanks for posting.
---Leon on 12/9/14


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It would be even better if someone could show me where in the Bible does any of God's people either Israelites or 1st Century Christians celebrated their birthdays.
---David8318 on 12/9/14


Mat 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

(Having outlived the romans false gods by a couple thousand years, our GOD superceded. Only the fearful of dead false god idols lend them viable acknowledgement)
Christ's birth day...may it mean happiness for you. Regardless of the unknown date you might choose.
---Trav on 12/9/14


'where scripture forbids the celebrating of any birthday'

It would be even better if someone could show me where in the Bible does any of God's people either Israelites or 1st Century Christians celebrated their birthdays.

A discerning Bible student will quickly identify from scripture who it is that did celebrate brithdays in Bible times.

No one yet has been able to show where the scriptural command is to celebrate Jesus' birthday on December 25.

Of course there is none. December 25 is the birthday of the pagan Zoroastrian deity Mithra. The Romans quickly adopted this date for their Saturnalia.

Enjoy your pagan "Mithra-mas"
---David8318 on 12/9/14


Mark Eaton: VERY GOOD!

That's the whole point.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/14


'You haven't given scriptural witnesses against honoring Christ Birth'- trav.

I'm not giving witness against honouring Christ's birth. Christ is my saviour and I thank God everyday for sending his son. This scriptural fact is undisputed and not the issue here.

You're missing the point Trav. The question is about the true meaning of "christmas". My question is where is the scriptural command to celebrate Christ's birth using paganism on the pagan holy-day December 25?

The simple answer: there is no scriptural command to celebrate Christ's birth on December 25.

December 25 is the day when false christians unite with godless pagans in their false festival.
---David8318 on 12/9/14


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People use any occasion the can to celebrate and party.

But what Christmas is supposed to be for is to Remember JESUS came to earth as a human child to save us and lead us.

There is no scripture against Christmas. As Trav pointed out. Nor against birthdays as 1st Cliff points out.

Christmas is a nice tradition that hurts no one.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/9/14


The meaning of "christmas" however is one of paganism, commercialism and hedonism.
---David8318 on 12/8/14

You haven't given scriptural witnesses against honoring Christ Birth. Make your case scripturally. Worshiping Christ...honoring Messiah's arrival is foundational reverence. If day is incorrect or other ornamental custom, or additions are faulty show witnessing scripture...which is an authority. Your just an opinion at this point.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
---Trav on 12/9/14


It would be great if David could show us where scripture forbids the celebrating of any birthday !
BTW because the bible does not say how many were killed on their anniversary does not mean it never happened, right ?
---1stcliff on 12/9/14


I used to really struggle with Christmas.

I believe that Jesus was born on Sukkot in a sukkah and was "God in a temporary dwelling" and will likely return on Sukkot to conclude the harvest.

Therefore, I had believed that Sukkot was much more important than Christmas.

Until I read "On the Incarnation" by Athanasius which led me to understand how important and how significant Jesus coming as a human really was. Without His birth (and death) we could never have been adopted and included in the Trinitarian life. We would have remained perpetually separated from God.

So whatever you say about the holiday, I will forever remember how important the birth of Jesus is.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/9/14


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'baptism was also practiced by pagans'- aka.

Baptism is a direct command from Jesus Christ- Matt.28:19,20.

Therefore, whether pagans also practiced baptism is irrelevant.

If aka can show me where Jesus commands to celebrate his birthday on December 25, I'll gladly join in.
---David8318 on 12/9/14


I hi(ghly) doubt there is a maria. If there is. Hi.

Expected this one...
don't care either way. But remember, baptism was also practiced by pagans before judaism or christianty.

What a shame.
---aka on 12/8/14


'offended by paganism'- scott1.

If your god enjoys paganism, perhaps you should get a real God.
---David8318 on 12/8/14


//Yet what a shame that many are unwhittingly sucked into paganism at this time of the year//

If your god gets offended by pagan traditions I suggest you get a bigger God.
---Scott1 on 12/8/14


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I agree scott1.

Yet what a shame that many are unwhittingly sucked into paganism at this time of the year in their mistaken belief that the traditional "christmas" celebration masquerading as an important Biblical event has anything to do with Jesus Christ.

December 25 is not a date set by the Bible but by pagans long before Jesus was born. December 25 is the most important date on the pagan calendar.

The true Christian message is what you post. The meaning of "christmas" however is one of paganism, commercialism and hedonism.
---David8318 on 12/8/14


Scott1 you said it all - thanks!
---Geraldine on 12/8/14


Do you decorate out of love
Do you cook for family (biological or close friends) out of love
Do you buy gifts for family out of love
Do you drive across the country out of love
Do you (fill in the blank) out of love
Then yes, For God so love the world that he gave...
In love, he predestined (declared) us for adoption as sons (family) through Jesus. Eph 1:5
---Scott1 on 12/8/14


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