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When To Join A Church

Should people be allowed to join a Christian church congregations if they're not born again believers?

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 ---Leon on 12/9/14
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Today is the day of salvation. From the day of Pentecost until the door of salvation will be closed to the gentiles. Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v 38, Mat.7 v 14, 24 v 13.

Mat.7 v 13, the 3 persons godhead religion believers Isa.5 v 14, Rev.17 vs 4 5 6 pushing pressing to John 10 v 1, Mat.7 v 23 since the first day of the trinity's existence & ABOMINATIONS. Rev.22 vs 18 , 19 adding to God's Word the 3 persons godhead. Their names are Not found in the book of life.
It's the people's choice, Not God's.

Glory to God The Father which Is & who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 6/20/15


michael_e:

You said: The Bible gives proof to every saved person to know they are saved: the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16).

The problem with this is, if someone is NOT saved, they are subject to delusion. There are many people who BELIEVE they are saved, but are in fact not. The great abundance of cults and heresies makes this abundantly clear. Just look at the fanatics in ISIS, who believe that they are doing good deeds for God by murdering Christians.

John 16:2b: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

The mere fact that you "know in your heart that you are saved" doesn't necessarily prove that you are.
---StrongAxe on 6/20/15


...A bit of an oxymoron. Should the dead be allowed to vote in Chicago? Can one join a fraternity without an invitation? Would a cheating spouse be faithful to her vows?
The purpose of the Church meeting is for Christian(s) fellowship, to be taught Christian Doctrine, and to do Christian business. Paul knew the difference between the Synagogue, the Areopagus, and a Believers Meeting. In my opinion, we should as well.
Acts 2:46-47, Romans 16:17, 1Corinthians 5:1-13, 2Corinthians 6:14-18, 1Thesalonians 5:5, 1John 1:7, 2John 1::7-11.
---Glenn on 6/20/15


Michael_e, "But you believe not because You are Not My Sheep. My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:24-30. I follow Jesus because I hear the Voice of Truth not because I can literally follow behind Him as could His disciples.
---barb on 6/19/15


The Bible gives proof to every saved person to know they are saved: the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16).
To say proof is found in the promises of God to Israel, is taking what is not yours. God made promises to the nation of Israel, but many people in Israel died in their sins at Gods hand of judgment and not salvation. How do you know you are part of the promise
If you want to follow Jesus, then you need to make sure you are following Jesus in the manner in which God would have us to follow Him. Today, in the dispensation of the grace of God, we find that information in Pauls writings: Romans - Philemon.
---michael_e on 6/18/15




Maybe we will see A "gospel according to Barb"
It's common to spiritualize all scripture nowadays. A popular example is when someone is described as following Jesus. To where are we following him? And how?
In following Jesus Matt-John, they used their feet (Matt 14:13) Most of the time it was literal physical following, not spiritual following by faith. When Jesus said follow me he meant literally drop your nets, and travel with me.
Peter and Andrew followed him with their feet: Matt 4:20
James and John likewise. Matt 4:22
It isn't spiritual faith, but literally people walking behind Him. the Lord addresses this literal crowd in Matt 8:10
Try 2 Tim 2:15
---michael_e on 6/18/15


Michael_e, anyone can write a letter and call themselves an apostle but that doesn't make them one. Jesus never called Paul an apostle and His disciples never named him as an apostle. Every verse you quoted for proof was from Paul. Is that all you've got?
---barb on 6/18/15


NO Michael, I deny your vision of Paul, not the Paul in the NT.

If you are confused about something and believe Jesus is saying the opposite of Paul, forget Paul and follow Jesus.

Every time I quote Jesus, someone quotes Paul to go against the quotation of Jesus.
Nonsense. Quote Jesus to prove I am quoting Jesus wrongly.

Paul's letters fit in perfectly with the 4 Gospels in my Bible.

It's some on this website who twists Paul's letters to disobey Jesus.
It's your soul not mine.

BTW, you can deny Paul if you wish. He didn't die on the cross, Jesus die, Jesus' Blood saved us, not Paul's blood.
So Paul is your Lord and Savior now?

Jesus is my Savior, not Paul
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/18/15


//You can follow Paul.
I am following JESUS!
Paul can not override Jesus and He didn't//
Christ sent Paul (Acts 9)
In Pauls epistles, except Thessalonians, it's clear Paul was an apostle or servant of Jesus Christ. Even in 1 Thess 2:4 and 13 declare his granted position from the Lord.
Out of all writers, Paul glories more in Christ than all (Gal 6:14)? because he knew more about Christ because of the mystery revealed to him (Gal 1:11-12, Rom 16:25).
Jesus made Paul the apostle and pattern of salvation to us that hereafter believe (1 Tim 1:16).
Following Pauls pattern and instructions requires glorifying God by Christ (Rom 16:27, Phil 2:11).
To deny Paul is To deny Christ
---michael_e on 6/18/15


While baptism was commanded by Jesus for the remission of sins, Jesus also taught the law confirming promises given to Israel. (Rom 15:8)
It was after Pentecost when God instituted the dispensation of grace, given first to Paul..Paul teaches one baptism (1 Cor 12:13, Eph 4:5)Which has nothing to do with water.---michael_e on 6/18/15

Really? You stated Jesus command it, but make an excuse not to OBEY?

You can follow Paul.
I am following JESUS!
Paul can not override Jesus and He didn't.

Stop ignoring Jesus' Words to justify your wrong actions
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/18/15




While baptism was commanded by Jesus for the remission of sins, Jesus also taught the law confirming promises given to Israel. (Rom 15:8)
It was after Pentecost when God instituted the dispensation of grace, given first to Paul. He would then reveal the secret of the meaning behind his death on the cross.
This message of the cross was made available to all men without distinction, covenant status, circumcision, or water baptism.
Paul teaches one baptism (1 Cor 12:13, Eph 4:5)Which has nothing to do with water.
The body of Christ today assumes a heavenly position with Christ as our mediator. No one today can receive salvation through the washings and anointings of the law.
---michael_e on 6/18/15


How can someone who is saved go to hell?--StrongAxe

By committing a mortal sin.

I NEVER believed once saved always saved.

I can save you from jumping off a bridge. But can't you go back tomorrow and jump off?
If you did, NO ONE CAN'T SAY I DIDN'T SAVE YOU.

The question is did God save you. God doesn't STOP anyone from going to HELL. Satan and his buddies were in HEAVEN and STILL REJECTED GOD.

So yes, a person who was Saved has a mark on their soul still can go to hell with the mark on their soul.
It's there choice to reject God 3 seconds before God.

Salvation doesn't make you a robot and take your freedom away.
But, you can't say God didn't Save you before you reject Him.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/18/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: Once Baptized is all that is needed to be Saved.

But can you lose your salvation? The Catholic church teaches that if one commits a mortal sin, and is not absolved of it before death, one goes to hell. How can someone who is saved go to hell? Baptism gets you in, but it isn't a carte blanche license to do whatever one wants without consequences.
---StrongAxe on 6/17/15


Nicole, 'Just like in John 6 when He demands us to eat His Body and drink His blood.' Do you believe that Jesus was referring to ALL people when he demanded that or to those who were saved?

Most churches discourage a person from taking the bread and wine if the person does not confess Christ as their Saviour.

Baptism and taking Communion are meant to be part of a person's serious faith - not just done as traditions of their particular church.
---Rita_H on 6/18/15


Rita, I don't argue with Jesus, or disobey His Wishes.
In Mark 16:16 Jesus demands for everyone to be baptized.
As in Matthew 28 when he speaks of Nations. An Order.

Just like in John 6 when He demands us to eat His Body and drink His blood.

The only two things Jesus tells us we MUST DO TO HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

I obey my Lord and Savior.

The sinner's prayer is made up and not ordered by Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/17/15


Baptism proves nothing about the spiritual condition of an individual. Many ask to be baptised and are, just because they asked. It should not be the case but is nevertheless.

A person should be saved before baptism and then they will have a testimony to give the congregation who will be watching the baptism.
---Rita_H on 6/17/15


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Strongaxe, God is not a God of confusion. That's why some of you all are not sure if you are Saved or not.

7 Sacraments are actions from God not us.

The Sinner's prayer makes you choose God instead of God choosing you. Then you are still not sure.

Baptism is an Action from God. Matthew 28.

Once Baptized is all that is needed to be Saved.
Confession is only needed when one sin after Baptism.
Mark 16:16
Jesus own Words. You must be Baptized for eternal life.

Jesus' rules not mine
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/17/15


Nicole_Lacey:

You said: Baptism is an objective way of knowing if you are born again or not. The mark is on you soul forever.

Baptism is a physical action, which may or may not be accompanied by a corresponding spiritual result. Some of the worlds worst monsters have been baptized, card-carrying members of established churches. Jesus himself said that the wheat could only be separated from the tares at the final judgment. If baptism were an iron-clad indicator of being born again, we could short-circuit what Jesus said, and separate them now based on baptismal records. But we can't.
---StrongAxe on 6/17/15


Baptism is an objective way of knowing if you are born again or not. The mark is on you soul forever.

Now where you spend forever is a different question.

You can have the mark on your soul in Heaven or Hell.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/16/15


Well Cluny you are correct. All we can look on is the outside.

GOD knows the heart.

On Christ the solid rock I stand all other ground is sinking sand.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/16/15


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\\there is no objective way to determine if someone is born again. Jesus himself said that the wheat and chaff would grow together until they are separated at the final judgment. Are we more wise and discerning than he is?\\

This is my point.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/14/15


This is a silly question. Except for Scientology (that actually uses a physical piece of equipment to measure your level of "clear", their equivalent of salvation), there is no objective way to determine if someone is born again. Jesus himself said that the wheat and chaff would grow together until they are separated at the final judgment. Are we more wise and discerning than he is?
---StrongAxe on 6/12/15


1Cor 12 and 1Pt 2 give glimpses of what the True Church looks like, where every believer is inhabited by the Spirit. The absolute requirement needed to belong to the True Church (the Bride of Christ) is each person MUST have the Spirit living inside of them. Church membershp is a flesh process, not a Spiritual process, and will not save anyone.

Heed the words of Jesus. Rom 8:9 . . . You are ruled by the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ.(ERV)
---aservant on 6/13/15


Millions are joining every year without being born again as to your standards but God's standards. Babies
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/12/15


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And just who will determine just who is really born again and who is not?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/12/15


The word "join" brings up the subject of membership in my mind. And in doing so I must reflect on why anyone would become a member of a church in the first place.
Membership in a church implies submission to authority, the authority of the local pastor (and staff) and to any larger organization the church belongs to (denomination). This authority concerns matters of doctrine...
I find it unlikely that unbelievers would agree and submit to all the authority needed for membership.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/14

Looking over your past post seen this one again. It is the best write up on the subject of membership anywhere. You described my feelings better than I could. Christ required no signature sign ups.
---Trav on 1/7/15


Apparently there are many who say they are "born again" who are actually not. ---michael_eon 12/21/14

yes, I agree since that mystery was given in jesus earthly ministry to his own just like supposedly the mysteries of the cross were given only to the "gentiles" by paul.
---aka on 12/22/14


//I've seen a lot, even here on christianet, but have never counted the number of definitions. There is one true definition, God's.
---chria9396 on 12/19/14//
Apparently there are many who say they are "born again" who are actually not.
---michael_e on 12/21/14


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Pete: I'm not asking about born again (saved) Christians. My question is about people who aren't Christians & frequently come around (are drawn to) Church "congregations" ~ regular attendees to Christian activities. Should these people be recognized as "associate/assembly" members of Church congregations? I think YES!!!

Being a Church congregation "associate member" is not the same as being a "born again member" of the Body of Christ. But, it's a way to evangelize, instruct & lead people to Jesus Christ?

God knows everyone's hearts. Christians show fruit as such. Non-Christians show they aren't saved, but need to be encouraged & shown how to become...
---Leon on 12/21/14


Mathew 16. Yahshua asked Peter the question "who do you say that I am." His correct answer that He is the Messiah was the rock upon which the Church would be built. If you believe and receive it too, you have joined the church. Where you fellowship is a different point. Start with two or three who believe in the word with you and pray to be led by His Spirit.
---Greg on 12/21/14


Leon: your comment to me 'No one can be voted into the kingdom of God.'

I KNOW that. My question to you about how we class 'born again' is just that it is not something WE know the answer to.

you asked about join a Christian church.....

But again I ask, who will decide if the to-be member is or is not born again?

Do you think you can answer that? If so, good. But still people may give a different answer from what you give.

How do we really know? Are you wise enough to know?

Your question assumes that someone knows. I think the only person who really knows is God. How sure are you that you can ask God and know it is His answer you receive?
---Peter on 12/20/14


...Join can mean to attend a service or Bible study, which I totally encourage christian and non-christian to attend church.

Join can also mean to be a member and take on responsiblilities and commitments as defined by that congregation.[?] This should only be christians ...---Scott1 on 12/19/14


Why not Scott allow non-Christians to be congregation members? Many families attend church regularly with their unsaved children, etc. Many non-Christian children, etc., are active members of congregations by association? The saying is, "Association brings about assimulation."

P.S. Church responsibilities are defined by the Bible, not by any congregation.
---Leon on 12/19/14


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Abraham did not have faith believing in any earthly Kingdom RESTORED to Israel.
---kathr453 on 12/18/14

More opportunity's to quote confirming scriptures. For any "thirsty" with questions...searching "scriptural answers".
Act_1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Eze_37:28 the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
---Trav on 12/19/14


I think we need to define "join"

Join can mean to attend a service or Bible study, which I totally encourage christian and non-christian to attend church.

Join can also mean to be a member and take on responsiblilities and commitments as defined by that congregation. This should only be christians.

There might be more, please list.
---Scott1 on 12/19/14


"How many definitions are there for being "born again"?"

michael_e on 12/18/14

I've seen a lot, even here on christianet, but have never counted the number of definitions. There is one true definition, God's.
---chria9396 on 12/19/14


How many definitions are there for being "born again"?
---michael_e on 12/18/14


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"Should people be allowed to join a Christian church congregations if they're not born again believers?" Of course.
I have heard it said, "the intent of the church building, in addition to being a gathering place for the saint, is as a hospital for the spiritually hurting, a place from where the call goes out to the sinner." And as Jesus said, "They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mar 2:17
---joseph on 12/19/14


So, Am I to stop attending church?
---Chria8659 on 12/18/14


No Chira! By all means keep on going to church & growing in your faith as you hear the word of God & His wonderful plan of salvation to anyone who will believe on Jesus Christ as Savior & Lord.
---Leon on 12/18/14


//So, Am I to stop attending church?//
---Chria8659 on 12/18/14

I am going to assume you are just starting out and thinking about this religion called Christianity, AWESOME. I would encourage you to keep seeking Christ at your local church and ask the local members their experience.

Understand this is a forum with many, many diffcult and challenging questions most that will not be answered this side of eternity. However, not to belittle you even Peter one of the best preachers in the Bible says, "Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation" 1 Peter 1:2 ESV.
---Scott1 on 12/18/14


So, Am I to stop attending church?
---Chria8659 on 12/18/14


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Leon: A question for the congregation, i.e., Who decides who is 'born again'?
Is it the congregation who votes on it? If the congregation...decides, how do they decide whether they are deciding in the same way God would?
---Peter on 12/16/14


Peter: No one can be voted into the kingdom of God. God knows every one's heart. He knows who is born again & who isn't. My question isn't so much about people who are born again as it is about people who aren't born again being shown the love of God by the people who are born again. When people willingly come to the light, which is better, to show them more light (Matthew 5:16) until they become filled with the light or to deny them access to further light (Matthew 5:15)?
---Leon on 12/17/14


Leon (you who posted the initial question):

A question for the congregation:

Who decides who is 'born again'?

Is it the congregation who votes on it? If the congregation (or the pastor) decides, how do they decide whether they are deciding in the same way God would?
---Peter on 12/16/14


1 Corinthians 1:9...
It is not possible for a NonChristain to have fellowship with Christ.

2 Corinthians 6:14-15 (NASB77)
Do not be bound together with unbelievers, for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
---wivv on 12/15/14

Exactly.
That scripture cannot be improved on. It hasn't been in appx 2,000 years.
Here is another.
Mat_7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
(Being rended for scripture is common here)
---Trav on 12/16/14


"No"! The church has many purposes, and all of them for the Christian. Fellowship of other Christians is one of those purposes as well as fellowship with Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:9 (KJV)
"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." It is not possible for a NonChristain to have fellowship with Christ.

2 Corinthians 6:14-15 (NASB77)
Do not be bound together with unbelievers, for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
---wivv on 12/15/14


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When we accept Christ & are baptized we are in Gods holy book or his scroll . However if I decide to join up with a local congregation this means the congregation has to meet scriptural values,lining up with the word of God . When I join I am extending the services God gave me to this congregation.It's part of my responsibility to go where God leads me. However I agree we must accept Jesus before deciding to join. that is different then just attending.
---candice on 12/14/14


Trav, veiled?
Be bold oh Mighty one and answer the question, as asked.
---Warwick on 12/12/14

Unlike yourself... carefully and thoughtfully I've posted scripture answering. I didn't write Israels scripture that infuriates you so. A mark and sign on you. GOD is righteous and it's his creation. His scriptures concerning Israel are truth you try hiding. You're very visible by scripture now. Took awhile.
Isa 44:21 Remember these,... O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
Deu_33:29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee, and thou shalt tread upon their high places.
---Trav on 12/13/14


Trav, veiled?
You infer ...
You have even gone so far as to say that the word 'gentiles' actually means ... Israel ...
---Warwick on 12/12/14

Scriptures you call "veiled" and you would like kept "veiled", I'll reveal even more considering your dotage.
Which bother you most, Heb 8:8-10, New Covenant or Sheep?
Sheep send you over the edge ,(Will wait till ur french trip to post sheep)... no not really uidiot.
Gentiles. Gone so far? Ha. Being free in America, to look, we do. It's an unfortunate word not found in any of the originals. An exciting, "unveiling" study, that every truth seeking "ethnos" owes themselves. Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace ...
---Trav on 12/13/14


Trav, veiled? What else could it be called? You infer that only those who have descended from Judah and Israel can be saved by Jesus atoning sacrifice. You have even gone so far as to say that the word 'gentiles' actually means those of Judah and Israel who live outside of the geographical bounds of Judah and Israel.

So that all can understand the import of your mutterings I twice asked you a straight-forward question which you twice ducked. I will ask it another way: Is salvation available only for those who are descendants of Israel and Judah? Be bold oh Mighty one and answer the question, as asked.
---Warwick on 12/12/14


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Rom 7:4 . . . that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

The True Church is essentially married to Christ. If you are unwilling to enter a covenant of eternal marriage with Christ, would He want you in His True Congregation?

Being "born again" occurs after God has given you His Holy Spirit to live inside your body. God gives His Spirit AFTER you have entered into the Marriage Covenant with Jesus.

Refs to being married to God. Is 54:5, 62:5, Jer 3:14, 31:32, Hos 2:16, 19, Rom 7:4, 2 Cor 11:2
---a_servant on 12/13/14


Anyone can join a worldly denominational "church," the commandments and traditions of men, but God will not add that person to the true Church of God.
---Steveng on 12/12/14

I'm in agreement. Thinking that the denom saves, is one form of climbing in another way.
I will visit any denom in search of "Sheep".
I will never sign membership of any denom, those that won't hear scripture...dust feet.
Joh_10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2Pe_2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness,
---Trav on 12/13/14


Those who are born again realize they are sinners by knowing the commandments of God. If they then believe and are baptised then they are saved. After one is baptised and is saved, only then will God add him to his one true church.

Anyone can join a worldly denominational "church," the commandments and traditions of men, but God will not add that person to the true Church of God.
---Steveng on 12/12/14


In a veiled way Trav pushes the antiChristian...in a veiled way ... I have indeed battled to expose this heresy, ...
May I ask: do you agree...
---Warwick on 12/11/14

Help him Rita.
Lets see...accused of heresy, anti christian but, in 6 years, accuser never battled using scripture, against my thousands of posted witness scriptures.
I'm the veiled one? O.K. Dangerous? Too who? The sheep I look for? The sheep my "Lord" looked for?
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Luk_13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, you yourselves thrust out.
---Trav on 12/12/14


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Rita, on another site you wrote "Has this, once good, question and answer site been downgraded to a battleground?" Without being paranoid I imagine you may be referring to that which I have written, and to others too.

In a veiled way Trav pushes the antiChristian elitest belief that only physical descendants of Israel and Judah can be saved. He promotes this idea, as I say in a veiled way because he prefers that people do not comprehend the ramifications of his belief. I have indeed battled to expose this heresy, as I am convinced it could upset new believers, not yet strong in their faith.

May I ask: do you agree that such wrong and dangerous beliefs should be exposed ?
---Warwick on 12/11/14


If you kick out anyone who you think is not worthy to attend then the chance for that person to have salvation is diminished. We must disciple people.
---KarenD on 12/11/14

If GOD didn't call them to begin with all your discipleship is vain.
All other false religions choose their gods, idols etc.
Our GOD is unique in that he chooses.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
---Trav on 12/11/14


Leon.....Just because someone attends a church does not make them a member or born again. If you kick out anyone who you think is not worthy to attend then the chance for that person to have salvation is diminished. We must disciple people.
---KarenD on 12/11/14


KarenD: It's not about kicking people out because they're not worthy. But for God's grace & mercy, we're all unworthy! It's about shunning them because they choose to remain in sin (unholy) & are disruptive to the other members in the church body.

You can't disciple anyone who resists God's delegated Church authority. Discipleship is only possible when we submit ourselves to the word of God (the Bible) & those He has placed in authority over us.
---Leon on 12/11/14


KarenD, how do you determine who is really "born again"?

What are the criteria you use?

And who gave you this authority to make the decision?

For what it's worth, the last Baptist church which which I was associated had a pastor who was an adulterer and a minister of music who had a taste for teen-aged boys.

Who determined if they were born again?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/14


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Leon. Just because someone attends a church does not make them a member or born again. If you kick out anyone who you think is not worthy to attend then the chance for that person to have salvation is diminished. We must disciple people.
---KarenD on 12/11/14


Karen: You didn't answer my question, 12/10. For many people the Church is a building where they gather for religious activities & instructions. But, the Church really is the born again (two or more) people of God who, in spirit & truth, praise & worship God within these buildings. Also, disfellowship (excommunication, discipline) is permitted in the church for people who haven't repented of their sin(s).

Mark_Eaton. Yes...
---Leon on 12/11/14


Leon.....Just because someone attends a church does not make them a member or born again. If you kick out anyone who you think is not worthy to attend then the chance for that person to have salvation is diminished. We must disciple people.
---KarenD on 12/11/14


Church members (attendees) can be disfellowshipped & asked to leave...
---Leon on 12/11/14

I am assuming you are referring to Matt 18:15-17 and 1 Cor. 5:9-13.

However, how many times have you seen a person taken before the whole church? And how many times have you seen someone asked to leave? Our days of disciplining each other are seemingly past.

Why? I have heard these reasons. We have grown insensitive to sin in our midst. We have lost touch with our brothers and sisters in Christ. Our churches are too large allowing people to hide. People have lost the desire for face to face communication.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/14


We cannot know if they are telling the truth. All we can do is see if they are trying to live correctly.

We must trust them.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/11/14


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Mark_Eaton: If anyone comes to my house & doesn't want to obey my house rules, I'd ask them to leave. So it is with the church house. Church members (attendees) can be disfellowshipped & asked to leave UNTIL such time as they have a change of heart (are will to submit to church delegated authority.
---Leon on 12/11/14


The word "join" brings up the subject of membership in my mind. And in doing so I must reflect on why anyone would become a member of a church in the first place.

Membership in a church implies submission to authority, the authority of the local pastor (and staff) and to any larger organization the church belongs to (denomination). This authority concerns matters of doctrine, evangelism, service, and function...
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/14

An insightful post on the slavery of membership.
Freedom is Christ...if we don't willingly fall for most flavorful, popular, ear tickling doctrines, and work of the denominational divisions.

Some are fearfully opposed to this freedom... denom slaves by deduction.
---Trav on 12/11/14


Should people be allowed to join a Christian church congregations if they're not born again believers?
---Leon on 12/9/14

The word "join" brings up the subject of membership in my mind. And in doing so I must reflect on why anyone would become a member of a church in the first place.

Membership in a church implies submission to authority, the authority of the local pastor (and staff) and to any larger organization the church belongs to (denomination). This authority concerns matters of doctrine, evangelism, service, and function.

I find it unlikely that unbelievers would agree and submit to all the authority needed for membership.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/14


Why is there so much emphasis on denomination? Lack of "right division"
Religious people, even sincere Christian people divide themselves into various denominations or churches, but there is no indication in the Bible that God recognizes these divisions. God makes it clear that in His sight there is one Church, composed of all who truly trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. In I Cor. 12:12,13 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ:
FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY.
Rom. 12:5, SO WE, BEING MANY, ARE ONE BODY IN CHRIST, AND EVERY ONE MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER.
---michael_e on 12/11/14


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==not the counterfeit christians who are members of worldly denominations.

So, yes, anyone can join a worldly denominational church, but will not be part of Christ's true church.==

Like your worldly denominational "church," Steveng?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/14


The meaning of "church" is completely different than it was at Christ's time. The true church of Christ is not a non-profit organization or a denomination. Christ's true church is not worldly in any way. It has no wealth nor has a huge bureaucracy. It doesn't have trillions of dollars tied up in real estate and hard and paper assets (stocks, bonds, insurance). It does not spend billions of dollars to maintain the real estate and assets.

The true church of Christ ARE the christians, not the counterfeit christians who are members of worldly denominations.

So, yes, anyone can join a worldly denominational church, but will not be part of Christ's true church.
---Steveng on 12/10/14


Anyone can attend a church and be part of the conongregation. Only born again Christians can JOIN a church as a member in most denominations.
---KarenD on 12/10/14


Why, Karen, should only born again Christians be allowed to be members of a church congregation/denomination?
---Leon on 12/10/14


Anyone can attend a church and be part of the congregation. Only born again Christians can JOIN a church as a member in most denominations.
---KarenD on 12/10/14


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Rita exactly. membership into the church a person should already be a believer or been baptized or process of baptism. Anyone can attend & learn, but to lead ministries/classes we must be a Christian believer.
---candice on 12/10/14


I've heard it said that association brings about assimilation (conversion).
---Leon on 12/10/14

By your non scriptural farm theory, makes total sense now..
Wolfs assimilating with goats and sheep convert into woats, woheeps and goheeps, wogoheeps, gowoheeps.

Joh_10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh_10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh_10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Mat_25:33 he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
---Trav on 12/10/14


I've heard it said that association brings about assimilation (conversion). In other words, if Christians model Christ before people who aren't yet Christian, there's a good likelihood they may become believers.

In some Baptist churches I've attended, people are allowed to become members based upon their "Christian experience". That doesn't necessarily mean they're born again believers though they might be. What that could mean is they've experienced/heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, but haven't yet made a decision as to whether they personally believe it & accept Him.

So, can they be active members of church congregations even though they may not be Christians (born again believers)?
---Leon on 12/10/14


The Church of The Living God, Acts 2 v 38, delivered to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost. 2 Cor.6 v 2.
They were first called Christians at Antioch.
---Lawrence on 12/10/14


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If people were not allowed to join Christian congregations the opportunity for them to hear the gospel preached would have been taken away from them. We are all encouraged to take along friends and neighbours to hear the good news.

What should not be allowed (prior to a person being saved and have a testimony to give) is membership and baptism.

If unsaved people were not allowed into our congregations our preachers would be preaching to the converted 100% which is not what it is all about.
---Rita_H on 12/10/14


All the churches I attended, you must be a Christian first before they accept you as an official member. you don't have to be baptized yet. but do accept Jesus as your lord savior.---candice on 12/9/14

Should people be allowed to join a Christian church congregations if they're not born again believers?---Leon on 12/9/14
---Leon on 12/9/14


All the churches I attended, you must be a Christian first before they accept you as an official member. you don't have to be baptized yet. but do accept Jesus as your lord savior.
---candice on 12/9/14


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