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Are These False Teachers

If Jack Hayford is "the Apostle Paul of our generation", and Robert Morris is the "fourth member of the Trinity", what does that make us? Matthew 7:15, 12:31, Acts 20:29-30, Romans 16:17.

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 ---Glenn on 1/8/15
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Trav:

Thanks.

I once read a story about a man who was seeking spiritual guidance, so he opened up the Bible to a random verse, which said "Judas hung himself". Perplexed, he did it again, and got "Do ye, therefore, likewise". Distressed, he did it again, and got "what you must do, do quickly".

It can be quite dangerous to focus on single verses without context.
---StrongAxe on 1/27/15


In some cases, the Bible comes out and says something clearly, in plain black and white. In such cases, the conclusion is clear.
---StrongAxe on 1/22/15

Good to have your paddle back on the boat. You steady the boat at times. There is almost always a scriptural witness or multiples for any question.
One verse Churchianity is confusion.
Even Apostles/Disciples had to ask Christ..."expounded" in Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Plain: Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 1/27/15


Thank you Glenn good points.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/27/15


An answer might be: Proverbs 3:34-35. One sign of a Believer is having reverence towards the Lord, even more so by a purported Bishop, Matthew 7:20-21. Also, participating in Syncretistic meetings would seem to be less 1John 1:5-7, and more Revelations 17.
As to Mary: Christianity teaches that God only deserves Glory, and that we being without our own merit, can be saved by having faith in Him only, and in His meritorious death on the cross. Promoting Mary as a sinless Advocate, Co-Redemptrix, and Mediatrix is outside the pale of Christianity, Isaiah 42:8.
The Unitarians, etc.: Considerable proof of the Trinity (hundreds of verses), has been given on these blogs, Romans 1:21-22, 1Timothy 4:1-2.
---Glenn on 1/25/15


Good point strong ax
---Samuelbb7 on 1/23/15




Cluny:

You asked: How many times does something have to be in the Bible for it to be true?

In some cases, the Bible comes out and says something clearly, in plain black and white. In such cases, the conclusion is clear.

In other cases, something is mentioned only vaguely, in passing, and can be interpreted in several different ways. Building doctrines solely on such verses can be very shaky, at best. For example, the whole Jewish milk/meat dietary dichotomy based solely on "thou shalt not seethe a calf in its mother's milk" - excluding even chicken (that does not have milk), and the Mormons and their doctrine of baptism for the dead based on an aside comment by Paul.
---StrongAxe on 1/22/15


Well Cluny you say there were bad hermeneutics in the Revelation Seminars which I taught. Where?

I am saying that to take a verse out of context is bad hermeneutics. Then I gave an example of what that can do to a verse. Show me how I am wrong. Your say so is not good enough. Show me how that taking a verse out of context is good hermeneutics.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/22/15


\\here are only about two verses that come close to supporting your immortal soul doctrine and this is one of them.
\\

How many times does something have to be in the Bible for it to be true?

\\But to lift any verse or words out of the context they are being used in, is bad hermeneutics.\\

That was done a lot in the SDA Revelation Seminar in the 80's. And I took the whole course.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/15


I understand Cluny you do not think so. There are only about two verses that come close to supporting your immortal soul doctrine and this is one of them.

But to lift any verse or words out of the context they are being used in, is bad hermeneutics.

The Bible teaches the resurrection of the dead at the Second Coming. All agree on this. But the intermediate has been a cause of argument for two millennium.

If I take this verse out of it's context it changes the meaning.


I Corinthians 15:18

Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Do you believe this should be understood in context?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/22/15


\\Cluny you took your verse about the God of the living out of context.\\

I don't think so. I was showing another application of the verse.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/15




Cluny you took your verse about the God of the living out of context. The discussion was about would the dead be resurrected and Jesus pointed out yes they will be because GOD is going to raise them from the dead.

Lawrence you do not answer any questions just attack. Is that because you do not have an answer. Tell me what this means.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/22/15


Over the centuries many people's prayers to Mary and the saints have been answered. So I have no objection to that.

---learner2on 1/19/15

If this statement is not intended to be facetious...

So as long as prayer is answered, it does not matter to whom we pray.
---aka on 1/22/15


Over the centuries many people's prayers to Mary and the saints have been answered. So I have no objection to that.

---learner2on 1/19/15

If this statement is not intended to be facetious...

So as long as prayer is answered, it does not matter to whom we pray.
---aka on 1/21/15


Some false teachers are double minded, even Worse is that Most Are triple minded. Manmade commandments doctrines of men, 3 persons godhead believers in Rev.17 vs 4 5 6 which Is Bible prophesy, which Are many Mat.7 v 13, destruction hell, lake of fire.
The 3 persons godhead peoples digging in their deceiving pit of Mademade 3 persons godhead literature trying to prove that which has No parallel basis with The Word of God what so ever. No matter what you 3 persons godhead peoples try to say, the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Acts Church of The living God which are few, Mat.7 v 14.

Mat.28 v 19, Jesus Christ Is The name.

Glory to God The Father which Is, & who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 1/21/15


\\Fact you can't explain, is noted by omission and attack.\\

And of course, you NEVER play that game, do you, Trav?
---Cluny on 1/21/15

Well, never considered it being a game really. I probably have, looking backward. I've done many things I'm not proud of.
I guess you've sucked me into your mud game when I think about it. Wow. Didn't even realize it. Will you help me clean my boots off now?
I mean all you'd have to do is answer the questions plainly, like what was your first name you used here, ahhhh, where in scripture does it say to pray to Mary and the Saints. That sort of thing.
---Trav on 1/21/15


\\Fact you can't explain, is noted by omission and attack.\\

And of course, you NEVER play that game, do you, Trav?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/21/15


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Over the centuries many people's prayers to Mary and the saints have been answered. So I have no objection to that.
---learner2 on 1/19/15


\\Then show scripture where Christ said in "Mary's" name or all your saint's names your every wish will be considered. \\

But since spiritual things are spiritually discerned, I should not have expected you to understand this.
---Cluny on 1/19/15

The smarter you try to talk the less intelligent you seem. If you meant that you would and could said that.
Recognized that you were trying to defend scripturally your daily venerations to the saints and Mary.
You were given a wonderful chance to promote your "Superior Orthodox" righteousness in your daily/weekly venerations.
Fact you can't explain, is noted by omission and attack.
1Jn_5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
---Trav on 1/19/15


Ok...Cluny

Point taken. for me. I ask my friends who are living. When my best friend dies, who is my wife, I will continue to go boldly to the Father and know that the holy spirit will intercede when I have no words. Nobody else will do except the Father and my wife would expect this from me.

James? Please tell me to whom James is referring? Plus, per instruction from James, if Mary has the capacity and wants to pray for me she can. The command is not for us to ask others to pray for us. Why ask for what is commanded? The obedient comply and don't need prodding from me.
---aka on 1/19/15


\\Then show scripture where Christ said in "Mary's" name or all your saint's names your every wish will be considered. \\

My point, which you are missing, is that the term "post mortem humans" is meaningless in Christian spirituality.

But since spiritual things are spiritually discerned, I should not have expected you to understand this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/19/15


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..."I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," that He is therefore the God of the living...
That means that those who appear to be dead to us are alive in God's sight, Who alone sees reality as it is.
---Cluny on 1/19/15

....and GOD and Christ advised you guys/girls to pray to and through these "fathers" and prophets where?
Where?
Then show scripture where Christ said in "Mary's" name or all your saint's names your every wish will be considered.
Steak us some meaty scripture not orthodoc'd / catholic/universal shadow logic.

Don't tell it-sell it.
Your product appears to have expired. People learning to read and applying it...has hurt your discipleship.
---Trav on 1/19/15


give me directions..we'll be there. near 40 in west tn.
---aka on 1/16/15

Jer 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them, and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
Testing Pulisam 1, 2, 3. Invite sent.
---Trav on 1/19/15


\\I do not ask for any human post-mortem to pray for me.\\

Jesus pointed out that when YHVH said, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," that He is therefore the God of the living.

That means that those who appear to be dead to us are alive in God's sight, Who alone sees reality as it is.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/19/15


Good points Aka.

To many the saints are like demigods.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/19/15


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Cluny,

I do not ask for any human post-mortem to pray for me. I ask my friends who are living. When my best friend dies, who is my wife, I will continue to go boldly to the Father and know that the holy spirit will intercede when I have no words. Nobody else will do except the Father and my wife would expect this from me.

James? Please tell me to whom James is referring? Plus, per instruction from James, if Mary has the capacity and wants to pray for me she can. The command is not for us to ask others to pray for us. Why ask for what is commanded? The obedient comply and don't need prodding from me.
---aka on 1/18/15


\\all respect to Mary, but why would anyone ask a non deity to do what the Lord does not suggest or require?\\

Do you ask your friends to pray for you?

As a matter of fact, the Epistle of St. James commands us to pray for one another.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/15


There are many false teachers and preachers. Some are on tv. Be careful what you listen to, they will have you believing them.
---shira4368 on 1/17/15


Pro_18:24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

---Travon 1/16/15

Puli Sam at why mail? There is no sense in it and there are no spaces.
---aka on 1/17/15


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give me directions..we'll be there. near 40 in west tn.
---aka on 1/16/15

Lets figure out how to get an email or phone privately and I'll contact you or you me.
We'll go Bass fishing when it warms up some. Have a couple of types of Boats we can use.
You can finally throw a Buckeye at me. Ha. Have one on my desk right now, picked up hunting. Yours will make two.

Pro_18:24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

---Trav on 1/16/15


What the hay, you ever visit we'll, sneak some coconut, go fishing and throw dirt clods. Sold the horses so don't sweat that. ---Trav on 1/16/15

bringing up many memories. broke my head a few years ago. memories still there. the bridges just need repaired.

buckeye wars with neighbors. bottle rocket wars with brothers and cousins. crawdads, fishin', creek (pr. crik) with minnows(minnies) and breadballs, swimming and wading. not as rural as you, but not suburbian either. lived close to school that was equipped with outdoor basketball rims, and monstrous full steel swing set. many laughs and scars.

give me directions..we'll be there. near 40 in west tn.
---aka on 1/16/15


Trav...forgot about the brown sugar and coconut stash. Good times. Like chewin tobacci but didn't need to spit.
---aka on 1/16/15

Exactly, much better taste!
BB gun, dirt clod, stick and string bows, Walnut wars with your cousins or neighbors. Fishing for any size of fish or minnow, catching Crawdad's, Turtles. We had half broken horses no bikes and pulled a discarded go cart frame without a motor behind our horses. Sounds like it would work pretty good but, we didn't consider the missle clods of dirt and gravel coming off the horse hooves. Ruined a pair of my dad's blue blocker hunting glasses.
What the hay, you ever visit we'll, sneak some coconut, go fishing and throw dirt clods. Sold the horses so don't sweat that.
---Trav on 1/16/15


'When you ask friends to pray for you, do you tell them to tell Jesus what to do?'
Cluny and samuel,neither of your arguments make sense. nevetbeless, Hebrews tells us that his people can now approach the throne boldly.

all respect to Mary, but why would anyone ask a non deity to do what the Lord does not suggest or require?

I could see it if she were deity just as a child of God can ask the Hs when no words will come.

So biblically mary is being treated as if she were deity in various circles.

Trav...forgot about the brown sugar and coconut stash. Good times. Like chewin tobacci but didn't need to spit. I was using a literary device that I have seen Cluny use against other people. Of course others notice
---aka on 1/16/15


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Did anyone else but I notice that Cluny usually diverts on a minor miscue of another's publicly and he doesn't address his own major fallacies publicly?

... praying to Mary implies that she is alive, available, and able to hear your prayer and deliver.
---aka on 1/14/15

I've noticed. He is as careful as a serpent...in provocation or response. Scriptural serpent? Matt 10:16 Too camo'd to tell. Has nibbled on my ankle a time to two.
Tree of Babbler?

Ecc_10:11 Surely the serpent will bite without enchantment, and a babbler is no better.
2Co_11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
---Trav on 1/15/15


\\So when you pray to someone here on earth to you get on your knees bow down to them and ask them to tell JESUS what to do?\\

When you ask friends to pray for you, do you tell them to tell Jesus what to do?

Actually, Orthodox pray standing.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/15/15


No Cluny Ephesus is just a name. Just like My Church is the Gulfhaven which was the part of town it was built in church.

So when you pray to someone here on earth to you get on your knees bow down to them and ask them to tell JESUS what to do?

Only GOD saves us. The people who help us are not saving us they are directing us to JESUS.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/14/15


...Cap'n Crunch, I couldn't afford to be late for the bus. Did you ever eat that cereal fast? it would cut into the roof of the mouth, leave dangling skin, ...
---aka on 1/14/15

I played Apache a lot after reading Geronimo in the third grade.
I'd perform raids on Moms Brown Sugar and Shredded Coconut. We were not allowed much candy and no Cola's. Dad was a mgr for Cola Company and said he knew how it was made. Ha.
Yeah only you would remember the roof of the mouth thing. Learned to let CCrunch soak for just the right amount of time or its too soggy.
Thanks Aka for the shredded palate memories...forgot all about it, now i think I can feel some scars up there.
---Trav on 1/14/15


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..since the time I was able afford Captain Crunch .-trav

When we finally could afford a box of Cap'n Crunch, I couldn't afford to be late for the bus. Did you ever eat that cereal fast? it would cut into the roof of the mouth, leave dangling skin, and sometimes the taste of blood. Affectionately, called it Crunchmouth.

Maltomeal...sorry...dude.
We unfortunately endured poverty AND my mom's health kicks. Wheat germ..what the? Wheatena...coco wheat ...all without finely processed good ole sugar. Honey was mom's and off limits...probably from the tribe of Dan. If i wanted cocoa in my cream of wheat, I would have mixed in the powderedsugarless cocoa myself. We did get to use margarine then. Thank God.
---aka on 1/14/15


Cluny, I guess that is true, but no matter the written or spoken dogmata, it is the actions that speak loudest especially when it is not congruent to the respective dogmata.

Did anyone else but I notice that Cluny usually diverts on a minor miscue of another's publicly and he doesn't address his own major fallacies publicly?

Btw, praying to the court and praying to Mary are different. 1st,in English we use words that are the same but have multiple definitions. 2nd, praying to Mary implies that she is alive, available, and able to hear your prayer and deliver.
---aka on 1/14/15


\\ It is the actions (not stance) that defines the dogma.\\

Wrong. Dogmata ARE defined verbally, usually in writing.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/14/15


...when i was a kid, i kissed the Mikey on the box of Life that my mom bought. it was a miracle for us to afford this.
---aka on 1/13/15

Last part of my childhood we grew up close to the edge of nothing financially, on a rural farm.
You sure brought a picture to my mind, and memories of how special the most simple things can be on your comment above.
Wow. Those simple things and feelings I miss most ... since the time I was able afford Captain Crunch. Ha. The cereral Mom wouldn't buy because it was too expensive. We ate Malt 0 meal a lot. Mmmm.
---Trav on 1/14/15


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Some might hold that Mary is coredemptrix, but this is NOT the official teaching of ANY Church, much less than the Roman Catholic Church.

On the other hand, may people have participated in my redemption, including my Baptist Sunday School teachers and the minister who baptized me.

Does this take away from Christ as the only Redeemer? Not at all.

Have you ever heard such English expressions as "pray tell," or "prithee", or in legal papers, "The complainant prays the court to rule such and so"? This is certainly NOT treating the one addressed as a deity.

There is an Ephesus SDA church near me. Does that mean they worship Ephesus?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/14/15


cluny, being raised in a Roman Catholic home, school, and church for 12 years, i will testify that Steveng is not incorrect.

The church does not have to announce in written or verbal form its dogma and no parishioner has to acknowledge the practice to make the claim that Mary is deified in the Catholic church. It is the actions (not stance) that defines the dogma.

I know what I was being taught to think and do regarding Mary.

Anything that you or anyone else says through second or third hand info may or may not be valid. it is just as if i said something about Orthodoxy.

To say that EVERYTHING that anyone says is a falsehood is itself false witness.
---aka on 1/14/15


The Roman Catholic Church teaches to pray to Mary not just to GOD. It speaks and many teach she is a coredemtirx.

Many churches are dedicated to Mary not GOD. So if a person worships and prays to someone they are in effect making them into a goddess in this case.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/14/15


\\One major church that deifies Mary is the Catholic Church\\

Wrong again, as in everything you say, Steveng.

The Roman Catholic Church has NEVER said that Mary is a goddess.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" means even if "thy neighbor" is a Roman Catholic.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/13/15


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aka, if you say so...
---learner2 on 1/13/15


Learner2, you asked me to name a few circles, I declined.

Your next post was about was about equating the actions towards Mary as a simple devotion. I did not decline that. I have that right and so do you.

I was raised with a Roman Catholic education.

the education was great, the uniformed girls were smokin',and the dogma was amusing (without thought or introspection). It was a very entertaining time.
---aka on 1/13/15


aka, I thought that you didn't want to discuss this with me. I am amused.
---learner2 on 1/13/15


If you have no objection to doing such a thing, why would you object to somebody kissing an image of Jesus' mother?
---learner2 on 1/12/15

no objection to devotion or emotion. when i was a kid, i kissed the Mikey on the box of Life that my mom bought. it was a miracle for us to afford this.

when i kiss my mother's picture, i do not expect anything. it is the measure of veneration and adoration and expectation that borders on worship.
---aka on 1/13/15


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Steven, it has been noted that many prayers to her have been answered over the centuries. That does not make her deity.
---learner2 on 1/12/15

I love Christ mother. She was special and specially chosen, she was blessed. No where can one find to ask in her name for anything. She would be sorrowful. She's answered no prayer in Death, nor has any Prophet, Apostle or saint. Other than through scripture.
Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat_18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Joh_14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
---Trav on 1/13/15


Steven, it has been noted that many prayers to her have been answered over the centuries. That does not make her deity. Have you ever kissed a picture of your mother? If you have no objection to doing such a thing, why would you object to somebody kissing an image of Jesus' mother?
---learner2 on 1/12/15


Latria, dulia, even proskynesis but never worship.
---aka on 1/13/15


learner2 wrote: "aka, in what circles is Mary deified? Please name one or two."

aka, I won't decline.

One major church that deifies Mary is the Catholic Church. There are statues of Mary, Temples dedicated to Mary, apparitions of Mary. People pray to her as though she is living. People idolize Mary by making an alter dedicated to her in their homes. People have claimed to have been healed by her. Many people rub the feet of statues of Mary for prayers to be answered. Many believe that she is co-redemtrix in the salvation of mankind.

The truth: Mary is "dead." She will rise at the second coming of Jesus. She said so herself.
---Steveng on 1/12/15


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aka, ok, no problem.
---learner2 on 1/12/15


Learner2, to avoid unnecessary argument, I will decline.
---aka on 1/12/15


aka, in what circles is Mary deified? Please name one or two. Thanks.
---learner2 on 1/12/15


//Please read the following, Herod vs. Barnabus and Paul, Acts 12:21-23, 14:8-18. A true teacher would agree with 2Timothy 4:2-6, and not participate in a U.G.I. leadership conference with various Emergent Church, Seeker Sensitive, and Word of Faith profligates//---Glenn

I usually listen to Robert Morris weekly. I have never seen or heard Morris promote himself or try to steal God's glory for himself nor do I find him deviating from the Bible.
---Scott1 on 1/12/15


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Learner2, in some circles Mary is deified.
---aka on 1/12/15


aka, I agree. anyway, Mary isn't deified and there are no plans to deify her.
---learner2 on 1/11/15


Learner2

Firstly, who is 'us'?
Secondly, how can a trinity have a fourth?
Thirdly, where in scripture was a quadhead prophesied?
Why are different groups now trying to add another? Oprah...deity? Robert Morris...huh? or anybody else as deity?
---aka on 1/11/15


aka, what was your point then?
---learner2 on 1/11/15


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Secretly is the wrong word. But let's focus on what I said as opposed to the fact that anyone believe in a 4 person trinity which is impossible or a quadhead, which is wrong beyond anything imaginable.
---aka on 1/11/15


\\Others secretly think that Mary belongs there.\\

And how many people do you actually know who truly think this, even if only secretly, aka?

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/11/15


I have never heard anyone say that Mary should be a part of the Trinity.
---learner2 on 1/10/15


What does that make us?

Please define 'us'.

Four in a group cannot be a trinity.

Was a quadhead prophesied anywhere in scripture with witness?

Oprah Winfrey is determined as the 4th through a committee by major, modern 'christian' organizations. Does any other want to get this 4th spot in the TRInity? Others secretly think that Mary belongs there.

I got it. Let's put them all in a cage, and let them go MMA on each other. If it is an octagon, I will be in the ninth corner.
---aka on 1/10/15


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Thanks Glenn. I'm sure you're right.
---learner2 on 1/10/15


learner2: ...Interesting non sequitur, but you may be missing the point. Here are some good verses to learn, Psalm 1, Proverbs 1:10, 12:26, 13:20, 14:6-9, Romans 1:18-32, 1Corinthians 15:33, 2Corinthians 10:3-5, 2Timothy 2:16.
---Glenn on 1/10/15


Gordon you are right. There is no such thing as a 4th member of the trinity. Read God's Word instead of something some man wrote in a book.
---shira4368 on 1/10/15


J.Hayford, R.Morris, are in the family body of the 3 persons triune godhead in Rev.17 vs 4 5 6, which Are many Matt.7 v 13.

Beginning with Apostle Peter First on the day of Pentecost Acts 2 v 38, the other Apostles taught the Very same. God gave Apostle Peter Acts 2 v 38 to preach, God is Not vain minded, He did Not give the other Apostles other dif to preach. Again, they all taught the same Gospel.

The Fictitious 3 persons godhead Rev.17 vs 4 5 6 was Not involved.
Thank God.

Glory to God The Father which who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 1/10/15


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Only Clancy Imislund is the fourth member of the Trinity.
---learner2 on 1/9/15


Scott1, com7fy8 1/9: Please read the following, Herod vs. Barnabus and Paul, Acts 12:21-23, 14:8-18. A true teacher would agree with 2Timothy 4:2-6, and not participate in a U.G.I. leadership conference with various Emergent Church, Seeker Sensitive, and Word of Faith profligates, less Glenn Beck and Jonathan Morris, 2Corinthians 6:14-18.
Gordon: To be an Apostle, one would have to do as an Apostle does, e.g. in Paul's case - write around a third of the New Testament, establish Church polity, and correct error.
Psalm 1, Proverbs 1:10, 29-30, 12:26, 13:20, 14:6-7, Romans 1:18, 1Corinthians 5:11-13, 15:33, 2Corinthians 10:3-5, Galatians 1:6-12, 1Timothy 6:5-10, 2 Timothy 2:16, 2Peter 2, 1John 4:1.
---Glenn on 1/9/15


I can see the possibility of some modern Christian being an "...Apostle Paul of our generation." Ephesians 4:11-12 says that the Church consists of Apostles.
Now, whether Jack Hayford classifies as that, I don't know. I don't know enough about him.

But, this other character being the "fourth member of the Trinity"?
That's BLASPHEMY.

Another man attempting to be "God". Or, at least, somebody making a "god" out of him.
---Gordon on 1/9/15


I never heard heard Bob Morris say anything like this, about himself.

But I am concerned about how some number of people require money for their music and other ministerial things > Jesus says, "Freely you have received, freely give," in Matthew 10:8. So, if you sell what you think God has given us in His love for His children, isn't this a sort of prostitution > "selling" His love?

Would you make your own children pay for what you write or sing to them?

But a lot of TV people make people pay for what they teach, while others use seminaries to get money for what they teach. So, ones doing this could be in a sibling rivalry with others they say are "false", I suppose.
---com7fy8 on 1/9/15


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I don't know who Jack Hayford is.

Robert Morris of Gateway Church in Texas is not a false teacher. I don't know why he got called 4th member of trinity but I don't see him calling himself that.
---Scott1 on 1/9/15


If elephants had wings, does that make us have to carry umbrellas?

Hayford not an apostle, nor is Morris the fourth person of the Trinity.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/8/15


Then Jack Hayford should have a "thorn".

2 Cor 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh . . .

Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Pro 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Rom 12:16 . . . Be not wise in your own conceits.


So then Robert Morris is the 4th prong in a pitchfork that is designed to have three? How is that going to be, since he is not capable of the same purity, knowledge, understanding, wisdom, power, authority, and capability as the other 3 prongs?
---aservant on 1/8/15


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