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Saved If Don't Understand

Scripture tells us that we gain eternal life by accepting Christ and being baptized. Does Scripture tell us those born with very low brain power are automatically saved like children?

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"How do you mean "faith of Jesus"? The faith He embraced and exercised.
"In whom does Jesus put His faith?" Cluny on 1/18/15 The Father.
"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. No man takes (My life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again, this commandment have I received of my Father. Father, into your hands I commend my spirit:" Luk 22:42>Jhn 10:18>Luk 23:46
---josef on 1/18/15


---kathr4453
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS . . .

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

Jesus said Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit . . . - 2Cor 3:17
and He would know.

The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit are each God, are each SPIRIT.

God created man and woman after his own image (i.e., male and female spirits). Then he blessed them and talked to them, just like He talks to other spirits in the Bible. Then He put those spirits into flesh bodies, Adam first - Gen 2:7, then Eve from Adam - Gen 2:22.


I said NOTHING about animal spirits.
---aservant on 1/18/15


Aservant, you are saying In the NEXT verse God tells them to be fruitful and multiply...you mean the spirits being fruitful and multiplying before Adam was created?

So you are also saying there were animal spirits of male and female too correct? We see Noah was told to take male and female on the ark.

So you have spirits procreating before man was created. And male spirits went into male's and female spirits went into female's or women.

BUT if you look carefully aservant, no where does that verse say God created male and female SPIRITS. That is your wild imagination overreaching.

Where do you get this doctrine. Give us names of those who teach such things.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/15


Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

Adam does not have a body or a soul until Gen 2:7. Eve is created much later./////aservant.

Verse 1:27 says God created MAN in his own image, male and female. Again it says MAN, not spirit. And Genesis 2 is a recap in more detail of Genesis one. Not a second creation.

Man and WOMAN. WOMAN was created out of MAN. Spirits are not MAN. MAN is HU"MAN".

Or again if you are MOR"MAN" you also believe God and Jesus were men.

I would like to know how many here agree with aservant?
---kathr453 on 1/18/15


We were not spirit babies . . . Even demon spirits are not gender specific. The whole idea is blasphemy and nonsense.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/15



Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

Adam does not have a body or a soul until Gen 2:7. Eve is created much later.


Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and , Be fruitful and multiply . . .

There is nothing else God can be talking to except their male and female spirits.

The Bible does not mention any spirit babies. Spirits are created, not born.
---aservant on 1/18/15




'Are you so gullible to believe every wind of doctrine that comes along?' Kathr

My thoughts are not what I heard or read anywhere else. It was a function of understanding what I was reading in time.

This was your last chance with me to be a good ambassador of the word. You claim to have gifts of the spirit, but in 5 or so years, I witness(ed) no fruit of the Spirit in your writings. This is the same attitude that you displayed when you jumped me for the first time.

You don't need to address me or attack me anymore, please.
---aka on 1/18/15


Aka, since the New Creature is neither male or female, what will happen to this supposed male and female spirit that existed prior to one's soul? And again, scripture says the first man Adam was a life giving soul and the LAST Adam who is Jesus Christ is that life giving Spirit. 1Cor 15. Spirit beings entering into humans are DEMONIC spirits. We were not spirit babies before the foundation of the world. Even demon spirits are not gender specific. The whole idea is blasphemy and nonsense. Are you so gullible to believe every wind of doctrine that comes along? You make yourself an easy mark for the beast!
---kathr4453 on 1/18/15


Samuelbb7 on 1/18/17 - But all will not believe, ---- ?

John 6:29 - Jesus answered and said this is the work of God , that ye believe on him whom he hath sent,

{ Now when I wrote this verse down in the pass some people think this is talking about man's work ! But it says Work of God }

2 Thessalonians 3:2 - And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men for not all men have faith.
3:3 but the Lord is faithful , who shall stablish you and keep you from evil,

Philippians 1: 6 - Being confident of this very thing that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ,

{ Who doing all the work, seems to me it's all God , }
---RichardC on 1/18/15


Yes saving faith comes from GOD. We cannot build up faith ourselves.

But all men can believe and then faith through grace is given to them.

GOD does not decide if we are saved. He wants to save all. But all will not believe.


2Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Humans choose to be lost. This is off the topic.

Are we saved by Grace or correct knowledge?
---Samuelbb7 on 1/18/15


\\No. I believe we are saved by the faith of Jesus and the Grace of the Father.
---josef on 1/17/15
\\

How do you mean "faith of Jesus"?

In whom does Jesus put His faith?

Or did you mean "faith IN Jesus"?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/15




Kathr,there are some thoughts that we can have that are logical and not written in scripture. There is no specific scripture that says there was blood on jesus' robe. But it does say that jesus was adorned with both at the same time. I believe from that we can picture blood falling on his robe

I have neither read the book of Mormon nor have I talked to any Mormon in depth especially about this.But it is reasonable for me to believe that the creation of m and f are a little different than the creation of eve.

I can't seem to be able to post three responses at a time like you can. But if you just let me post my reasoning which may take a few post without you going of on me before I finish, I would be glad to. Just let me know please.
---aka on 1/18/15


Seemingly, compelling evidence. Thinking out of the box,...I like that! But if what you say is true, why does the Bible teach Jesus Christ to be the only begotten Son of God?
---David on 1/18/15


Jesus was "fathered" by the Holy Ghost, not a human - Mat 1:18, 20, Lk 1:35, He is a mixture of God and human.

His "fathering" by the Holy Ghost is what makes Him God in the flesh (which is different than 'housing' the Holy Spirit in your flesh = being reborn).

John the Baptist and all others are fathered by a human male, we are a mixture of human and human.
---aservant on 1/18/15


"You believe we are saved by Gods faith in us, and not by our faith in him?"
No. I believe we are saved by the faith of Jesus and the Grace of the Father.
---josef on 1/17/15


David to clarify what i mean by "Father's faith". I believe faith is a gift Father has given us to exercise in Him, and in His word to embrace the salvation He has made available to us through the faith, and atoning sacrifice of Jesus.
References: Rom 3:22>Gal 2:16>Gal 3:22 All from the KJV which I believe renders the verses in the way they were intended to be conveyed. In other words David, i believe faith is of the Father, not produced or mustered up in and of ourselves.
---josef on 1/17/15


What am getting here is John the Baptist was born again before he was even born -RichardC

Richard
Seemingly, compelling evidence. Thinking out of the box,...I like that!
But if what you say is true, why does the Bible teach Jesus Christ to be the only begotten Son of God?

If the predestination doctrine is true, everyone who is "saved", is begotten as Christ was.
---David on 1/18/15


{ What am getting here is John the Baptist was born again before he was even born }
---RichardC


Yes!

When God places His Spirit inside a human, it is very symbolic as a (type of) marriage covenant. In His union with that person, God leaves some of Himself inside of His Bride, just as does a human husband.

The Christian "church" is the body of believers, and is AKA the Bride. Thus, each male and female in the Spiritual Church is a bride (wife) - 1Cor 3:16, 1Cor 6:19, 2Cor 6:16, Eph 2:20-22, 1Pt 2:5.

Refs re God as our Husband: Jer 31:32, Isa 54:5, Isa 62:5, Hos 2:19-20, 2Co 11:2.
---aservant on 1/18/15


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RichardC, The Spirit in the prophets is not the same as being born again

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/15


No. I am NOT saying that souls exist before they are born. I am saying that spirits exist before man is born. That is why God was talking to the male and female before Adam and Eve were formed. It is also why God can choose, elect, call, and sanctify one before they are born. aservant///

OK, this is exclusively MORMONISM.

aservant, male and female spirits DID NOT exist before Adam and Eve were created. What male and female spirits? Please show scripture where God was talking to the male and female spirit before Adam and Eve?

You post no scripture to support your claims...why is that? Because it is not in the Bible but only in the Book of Mormon?
---kathr453 on 1/18/15


Did We Exist as Spirits in Heaven Before Earth?

We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218).

The plan of the parent gods in Mormonism goes like this: Life for you did not begin here on earth. You lived before you were born you will live on in the spirit world after your mortal life is ended. We all once lived in the presence of God the eternal father. In the world before your were a spirit child of his. With this divine parentage, your destiny, through righteous living, is to become like your Father in Heaven and return to his presence (The Purpose of Life Pamphlet handed out at the Temple on BYU campus).
---kath4453 on 1/18/15


Well the fact that GOD knew He was going to make a man and a women does not necessitate that preexisting spirits were there.

Also what is the Spirit of man?

The word Spirit is also translated Breath. Look it up. Animals have spirit or breath.


Ecc 3:21

Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Where is the Spirit called a living thinking entity outside of being in a body?

Predestination is not from the Bible.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/18/15


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aservant wrote: "Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them . . ."

God was "talking" to the animals in this verse NOT man. He just created them, instructing them what to do. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Afterwards, in verse 26, God created man and told them the same thing - he blessed them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, subdue it, have dominion over the fish, the fowl and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Man did not exist BEFORE the animals.
---Steveng on 1/18/15


Luke 1:15 - FOR he shall be great in the sight of the Lord , and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink, and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother womb,

{ What am getting here is John the Baptist was born again before he was even born }
---RichardC on 1/17/15


So you are saying souls exist before entering a body.
---kathr453


No. I am NOT saying that souls exist before they are born. I am saying that spirits exist before man is born. That is why God was talking to the male and female before Adam and Eve were formed. It is also why God can choose, elect, call, and sanctify one before they are born.


Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them . . .


Their souls did not exist util God blew His breath into Adam.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
---aservant on 1/17/15


Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I form thee in the belly I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb I Sanctified Thee , and I ordain thee a prophet, unto the nations,

2 Timothy 1:9 - Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
---RichardC on 1/17/15


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The unborn can't be justified until they are born. They cannot have faith - Rom 5:9, or display their faith by their works - Jas 2:24, until they are alive. Yet, the unborn can be called, elect, chosen, and sanctified by God since he foreknows them.////


False, Hebrews 10, we are sanctified through the BODY OF CHRIST.

OT saints were justified, but because Jesus had not died and rose again, no one could be sanctified through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ making them PERFECT. OT saints perfection came when Jesus rose from the dead.

Sanctification comes AFTER justification. So if no one can be justified before they are born, no one is sanctified before they exist either.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/15


The most important sanctification is to purify internally by renewing of the soul (G37). Aservant.

Then you say God sanctifies someone who does not even exist yet. HUMMMMMMM!

So you are saying souls exist before entering a body. Spirit babies, or soul babies. The belief in a preexistent soul. This is Mormonism, of which they got their belief from Calvinism, it's evil 1st cousin. Not only is this teaching demonic, as only demonic spirits can enter a body, but is also along the lines of reincarnation.

No scripture ever says God created souls prior to the creation of man. God breathed into Adams nostrils and Adam "became" a living soul.
---kathr453 on 1/17/15


Only God can determine when I have completed the sanctification process.
---barb


Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood . . .

The most important sanctification is to purify internally by renewing of the soul (G37).

These Scripture show God sanctifying his people. There is no process you need to complete for this.
---aservant on 1/16/15


Do you believe there are those who were already justified before they were ever born?
---kathr4453


The unborn can't be justified until they are born. They cannot have faith - Rom 5:9, or display their faith by their works - Jas 2:24, until they are alive. Yet, the unborn can be called, elect, chosen, and sanctified by God since he foreknows them.

Act 2:23 . . . foreknowledge of God . . .
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed . . .
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew . . .
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit . . .
---aservant on 1/16/15


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Grace is a divine influence upon the heart of man, that brings him into a place mentally & a condition spiritually to embrace the Fathers faith for salvation.-josef

Joseph
I'm not sure what you are saying here. You believe we are saved by Gods faith in us, and not by our faith in him?
---David on 1/17/15


Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God,

Hebrews 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.


It's all here Barb, OT NT, and confirmed by John (who wrote the Gospel of John ) in Revelation, FROM JESUS OWN MOUTH.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/15


John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."

Faith of course.

John 14:24 "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."

Is keeping his sayings just a mere memorization of his words?

Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:..."

Doeth? (James 1:22)

1 Corinthians 11:1_2

Doers...
---Nana on 1/17/15


Barb, God does not justify sin. He justifies the sinner. Every human born is born a sinner. As in Adam all sin, then every sinner who has placed their faith in Jesus Christ is justified. Justification is a legal act by which God declares a sinner Righteous, when they put their faith in Him. Abel was one such person. Abel's offering was acceptable to God making him an heir of righteousness. Hebrews 11. Abel's blood sacrifice pointed to Jesus Christ who would one day take away sin. We are Justified by his BLOOD. All else are like Cain, offering their works..a bloodless offering we see God rejected. Barb, your works salvation deny's the blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of Sin, AKA Justification.
---kathr4453 on 1/16/15


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Kathr, I gave you two verses, one from the mouth of God in Exodus and one from Proverbs which clearly speak about justification. God cannot justify sin. One must repent and be baptized to get rid of it and turn to Him for Truth. Jesus said baptism fulfilled all righteousness, Matt 3:13-17. He is our example to follow. "And he that does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me". Matt 10:38-42.
---barb on 1/16/15


David on 1/16/15, No. No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 1Co 12:3
Salvation is of the LORD Jon 2:9>Psa 3:8>Rev 7:10
Even when we were dead in trespasses, [Father] made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),... For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,.. Eph 2:8,10
Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,.. Rom 3:24 It is the grace of our our Father that brings salvation. Tit 2:11
Grace is a divine influence upon the heart of man, that brings him into a place mentally & a condition spiritually to embrace the Fathers faith for salvation.
---josef on 1/16/15


Kathr, if I die before I have completed the sanctification process God will judge me accordingly. God knows the beginning from the end therefore He will know whether I would have finished the process or not. Jesus put it this way "He who endures to the end shall be saved." So if I endure in His Word either to the end of my life or to end of the age I will be rewarded for my works. Rev. 22:12-15. Either way I put my trust in Him.
---barb on 1/16/15


I have heard many people say they are saved because, "All who call upon the name of the Lord, will be saved".

These same folks also believe they are not saved by what they do. If they are saved by calling upon the name of the Lord, did they not save themselves when they called upon the name of the Lord?

If not, how does one call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, but not save themselves by what they did?
---David on 1/16/15


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Jesus said to them, If you were blind [mentally], you would have no sin, but now you say, We see. Therefore your sin remains." John 9:41
And that servant who knew his masters will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."
"But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few....." Luke 12:47,48
"Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." Jas 4:17
---josef on 1/16/15


Barb, if while following The Lord, after being justified, and suddenly you die before being completely sanctified.....will you still go to heaven? In other words, you have to know ALL the truth and obey ALL the truth before you are saved? Or do you have to obey 100% of only that which you know! and have a perfect score of 100? Because scripture under law says, if you break one you've broken all of them. That must be a tormenting way to live, always working and never resting in Him. So you believe your salvation totally depends on your complete and full obedience? And if you fall 5 minutes before you die, your doomed? Or do you think there is a score card in heaven checking naughty or nice and the most points determines your destiny?
---kathr4453 on 1/15/15


Justification is the outward cleansing, water baptism and repentance.
---barb on 1/15/15

Ok Barb, I have shown scripture of what justification is by the verses I posted. I do not see any of the above except repentance, or one acknowledging one's own ungodliness. So please provide scripture to back up your definition of justification. I can't find any, but maybe I have overlooked one.
---kathr453 on 1/15/15


Justification is the outward cleansing, water baptism and repentance.
---barb on 1/15/15

Ok Barb, I have shown scripture of what justification is by the verses I posted. I do not see any of the above except repentance, or one acknowledging one's own ungodliness. So please provide scripture to back up your definition of justification. I can't find any, but maybe I have overlooked one.
---kathr453 on 1/15/15


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Kathr, I consider myself to be a follower of Jesus Christ. As His follower I am in the process of learning to put His words and teachings into practice. Matt 7:22-24. "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of mine and DOES them, I will liken him unto a wise man...". Also see John 14:23-25. It will be Jesus' Words that will be the words that judge in the last day. John 12:48-50

Justification is the outward cleansing, water baptism and repentance. Sanctification is the process of learning and practicing the truth as the Holy Spirit reveals it. Only God can determine when I have completed the sanctification process. "Sanctify them thru thy truth, thy word is truth". John 17:17.



---barb on 1/15/15


I ask where does God say he justifies the unGodly - not what does paul say about about it ?

2 Timothy 3:16 - ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness
---RichardC on 1/15/15


Barb, first I need to ask you a couple questions. Do you believe there are those who were already justified before they were ever born? Do you know what justification means? Did Jesus while on earth ever justify anyone? Were they sinners or already saints? Do you consider yourself godly, and by what means do you consider yourself a godly person?
---kathr4453 on 1/15/15


Luke18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinnerAKA UNGODLY.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
---kathr453 on 1/15/15


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Kathr, I asked where does God say He justifies the ungodly, not what does Paul say about it. Can you show me from the law and the prophets or from the words of Jesus Christ that the wicked are justified? What did Jesus mean when He said "To him who overcomes, will I grant to sit with me on my throne, even as I also overcame and am set down with my Father on His throne."? Compare Rev 3:21 to John 3:19-21.
---barb on 1/15/15


I think it is 'For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.'-com7fy8

Com7fy8
Why does God give the gift of Eternal life to some, but he does not give it to everyone?

Please try to keep your answer in the confines of what you believe.
That belief which teaches, "What we do, has nothing to do with our salvation."
---David on 1/15/15


Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is called imputed righteousness. The Righteousness of Christ.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Barb, all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, including you. Pride refuses to see oneself as ungodly before a Holy God. We can only be GODLY IN CHRIST as He alone is our righteousness before God. To believe one can attain Godliness on their own by keeping the Law in hopes that one day they can achieve salvation is never taught in scripture. Adam and Eve, then Abel on down...has always been BY FAITH in the promised redeemer.
---kathr4453 on 1/15/15


"The scriptures do not say that we are saved by accepting christ. Baptism of the holy spirit requires no special ceremony."

"Where does he get that? Romans 10:9 & 10, and Romans 6:23 > I think it is 'For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.'"

It does say, "as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God," in John 1:12. I can see that receiving includes accepting.
---com7fy8 on 1/14/15


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Romans 4:5 -But to him that worketh not, but believe on him that is justifeth the ungodly, his faith is counted for rightness
---RichardC on 1/14/15


Where does God say He justifies the ungodly?? "He that justifies the wicked and he who condemns the just, they both are abominations to the Lord." Proverbs 17:15. "Keep thee far from a false matter, and the innocent and righteous slay not, FOR I WILL NOT JUSTIFY THE WICKED". Exo 23:7.
---barb on 1/14/15


The bible explains who salvation is through, who it belongs to, and who are the possible recipients. It does not say that each individual can absolutely determine their own salvageability.
---aka on 1/14/15

Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone. God Justifies the ungodly, through Faith in Jesus Finished works. And yes one can KNOW they have eternal life. The Holy Spirit is our witness, Christ in us also bears witness and the Father also bears witness that we are Born from Above. Salvation is a GIFT, and doesn't BELONG TO ANYONE, OR EXCLUDE ANYONE. Each individual does determine their own salvation by receiving or rejecting Jesus Christ.To as many as receive Him. . All SINNERS are offered salvation and qualify for salvation.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/15


1 Corinthians 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

No Cluny, those crucified with Christ ARE saved. And again as scripture states, it's by the POWER OF GOD.

I might ask, do You find the preaching of the CROSS foolish? That may be your problem understanding salvation.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/15


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Kathr.. On that day, many including those who do things in jesus' name will be turned away. I am sure those people thought they were already saved.

The bible explains who salvation is through, who it belongs to, and who are the possible recipients. It does not say that each individual can absolutely determine their own salvageability.
---aka on 1/14/15


kathr, we are BEING saved. We are not saved ,yet.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/14/15


Yes Cluny..shall be saved. First one must call, THEN salvation follows. Totally disputes Calvinism who claims one is save first then calls on God. I'm glad that verse is there proving Calvinism is wrong. So again, Calvinism says, those who call upon the name of The Lord IS saved! or scripture stating those who call upon the name of The Lord SHALL BE saved. And no one can activate faith AFTER they are dead. So when do we show faith? here and NOW. We are justified by His Blood and SAVED BY HIS LIFE. Those who possess HIS lLIFE in you are SAVED...
---kathr4453 on 1/14/15


\\Whoeve calls upon the Lord is saved:\\

Wrong again, Steveng.

The verses do not say "is saved," but "SHALL BE SAVED."

In other words, it's something in the future.

Does anyone but I notice how far the Steveng and his worldly denominational "church" strays from the truth?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/14/15


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Samuel, eternal security is not from Calvinism. It's scriptural. We cannot earn our way to become a son. Faith is not of works, and works is not faith. We are saved BY GRACE through FAITH, not of works lest any man should boast. It doesn't get any clearer than that. Paul stated this fact, not Calvin.

And who has lied about anyone here, disqualifying them from being a son?

You may want to revisit Galatians 2:20-21. No one can UNcrucify themselves with Christ, nor can one crucify themselves again with Christ. Heb 6. Once is quite enough, and it is GOD who crucified you with Christ. The NEW creature does bear fruit...some 30, 70 and or 100%.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/15


A person who says they are a son and does not follow the Father and live for Jesus is not a child of GOD. Read First John 2.

So a person says they are saved and lies about others and puts them down and does not forgive as we should. Remember the Lord's prayer. Are they still saved?

Will liars who do not repent and turn from sin be accepted into Heaven?

Once saved Always saved is from Calvinism. I do not find it in the Bible.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/14/15


Cluny seems to think one born of God, begotten through Jesus Christ is such a small thing with God, He can abort at any time. Does God have such little regard for NEW LIFE? His very own life in us????? If so, why is everyone so against abortion? God does not MURDER His own Children. We're no longer servants but SONS, Joint heirs with Christ.

No one can EARN the New Birth. It's to as many as receive Him, to THEM gave he the power to become the SONS OF GOD. And if a SON, then an HEIR. Even adoptions are legally binding, on the one's adopting. We're bought and paid for through the Blood of Jesus Christ. Where does scripture say God can get a refund on His purchased possession? Even our human earthly laws have no such clause.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/15


"We are saved by faith, which is a relationship"-Cluny

And it's as simple as that!!
Good answer brother.

---David on 1/14/15


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After being physically born, you grow, learn and mature. The same for being spiritual born, you grow, learn and mature in Christ.

Your faith has saved you:
Luke 18:42
Acts 15:11
Romans 8:24
Ephesians 2:8
James 5:15

Whoeve calls upon the Lord is saved:
Acts 2:21
Romans 10:9,13

Save yourself:
Acts 2:40
1 Timothy 4:16
James 1:21

Faith plus works (not works saves):
James 2:14

It is up to the christians to save others from death:
1 Corinthians 9:22
James 5:20

Children, having no concept of God, Christ, repentance, and the ten commandments, are taken care of by God.
---Steveng on 1/13/15


kathr, have you passed beyond temptation, sin, and sickness?

Has your body been resurrected from the dead to its glorified form?

Have you heard the voice of Christ saying, "Come, O blessed of My Father?"

Until all these things happen, you are not saved.

That applies to everyone else here, including me.

And the Apostles were STILL present when Cornelius and his household (including servants) received the Holy Spirit.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/13/15


Cluny,,the very moment I was saved I was instantly baptized into Christ. It was an awesome experience I will never forget. Cornelius is not an exception to the rule.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/15


cluny: You can come to Jesus through the waters of Baptism, and He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit, or you can reject this, and He will baptize you in the fire of Hell.

oh, i see how you are interpreting St. John the Baptist. The Holy Spirit or fire of Hell.

Well, I read in the Bible that there is only one way to come to Jesus and that is through His Father (not Baptismal water) that draws us to Jesus.

As far as AND v. OR, Mar_9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire. I guess it is what burns up or is refined in the fire.
---aka on 1/13/15


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\\Except we see no one laid any hands on Cornelius or his family, of which the Holy Spirit came first and then they were water baptized.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/15
\\

Again, this the EXCEPTION,, not the rule.

Note further that St. Peter did not say,, "Well, Corneilius and his family have the Spirit. We don't have to do anything else. Let's go on to the next town." Instead they received Christian baptism to ensure the unity of the experiences.

We don't take the exception and make a rule out of it.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/13/15


Except we see no one laid any hands on Cornelius or his family, of which the Holy Spirit came first and then they were water baptized.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/15


\\The Apostles were not there when Jesus was baptised in the Spirit.\\

But this is altogether exceptional, as Jesus is God Incarnate.

Look up acts. in EVERY place, the Apostles were present, and the Holy Spirit was conferred by the Laying on of Hands--and in connection with Water Baptism.

**You are right cluny. Don't forget the fire**

You can come to Jesus through the waters of Baptism, and He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit, or you can reject this, and He will baptize you in the fire of Hell.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/12/15


Do you know scripture never states there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit?

However when one is saved one is spiritually baptized into Christ's death, and raised up with Him a New Creature the very moment one is saved. Our baptism is being baptized into HIS body. No witnesses are necessary.

And water baptism..now that is our open testimony before others we have received Him. You can do that the same day, a week later, or whatever.
---kathr4453 on 1/12/15


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\\Baptism of the holy spirit requires no special ceremony.
---aka on 1/12/15\\

Yes, it does.

in EVERY place in the Bible it happened when the Apostles were present.

It wasn't something people did at home on their own.



The Apostles were not there when Jesus was baptised in the Spirit.

Mat 3:16
Mar 1:10
Luk 3:22
Joh 1:32

The "people" don't do Spiritual baptism or decide when it will happen, the Spirit does.

After spending 3 1/2 days separated alone with the Lord, I was Spiritually baptised at home with only my wife in the house.
---aservant on 1/12/15


You are right cluny. Don't forget the fire. That is what John the Baptist said of jesus and how he will baptize. To this day, I have not seen anyone baptized this way. If John is a liar or lunatic, then jesus is too.

To be baptized in spirit and fire does not require a special ceremony. It requires total submission which can take a while.
---aka on 1/12/15


\\Baptism of the holy spirit requires no special ceremony.
---aka on 1/12/15\\

Yes, it does.

in EVERY place in the Bible it happened when the Apostles were present.

It wasn't something people did at home on their own.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/12/15


Our salvation happened before we were ever aware of it. Romans 5:6.
---learner2 on 1/12/15


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Only God reads the heart & knows the condition of the person mentally whether a child or an adult, this is NOT up to a person. However a person is saved by confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord & that he died & was raised again. Infants do not know right from wrong but children understand as they grow. however God forbid an infant die, I believe God takes care of them because they're innocent in their choices.
---Candice on 1/12/15


With infant salvation I tend to rely on 2 Samuel 23b. But the meaning of the verse is still debateable and not conclusive. I would also state that even Abraham did not fully understand the salvation process or procedure, but we agree that he was saved (righteous). He knew only that salvation was God's workings not his works.
---Scott1 on 1/12/15


The scriptures do not say that we are saved by accepting christ. Baptism of the holy spirit requires no special ceremony.
---aka on 1/12/15


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