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Age Of Bible People

Since there were no calendars, did the people in the Bible know how individually old they were?

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 ---Leon on 1/15/15
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"Define"- Warwick

Another joke right? Good one(?)

Warwick needs a new Dictionary as well as a new Hebrew/English Lexicon.

So let's get this straight. Warwick is actually saying (he's actually saying) that the word banana has no definition, no meaning, unless it's part of a sentence or paragraph, unless there is some context surrounding it?

That is...uh...

...wow.
---scott on 2/10/15


Scott I consulted Merriam-Webster upon the definition of 'define' and it shows 'define' is defined by context! How about that! Just like banana and 'the earth.' If we should read: she reclined upon her banana chair-we know, by context, that no bananas are involved. But you would have us believe that if 'banana' appears in a sentence it must mean one of the above two definitions you gave. Wrong again.

A goodly and relevant saying goes along these lines: a text taken out of context is a pretext.

---Warwick on 2/10/15


Warwick's sense of humor-

1. Please let us all in on the joke. You argued for weeks that the biblical Hebrew word "eth" (aleph tet) was a mysterious word for God. Then when it became increasingly obvious that you didn't have a regel (Heb. Leg/foot) to stand on you said..."just kidding". You're right. On second thought, that's hilarious.

2. Tell us which Hebrew lexicon did you consult that provided your "phonetic representation"?

It's two words. The first one is the Hebrew word "ha" meaning "the". I'll let you do your own homework to discover why your second word can not be "a-res." BTW it's not a "phonetic representation" it's a transliteration.
---scott on 2/10/15


Scott, it is true, you long ago showed that you and most JW's have no sense of humour. But what is there to be happy about for the victims of the WTS?

Trav will be livid at you for saying the Flood was world-wide. He is probably boiling up eye of gnat, and skin of toad (HUMOUR) against you right now!

The English-Hebrew Interlinear I consulted said 'ha-a-res' (phonetically represented obviously) is the word used for 'the earth' in Genesis 1:1 and throughout the Flood epic. You claim this is incorrect? Then argue with them.
---Warwick on 2/10/15


"This exact same word ha-a-res" Warwick

While I agree with Warwick that there was a global flood and not an isolated one, his fumbling of the Hebrew (above) is always dangerous territory for him. (As in defending vehemently that the Hebrew word "eth" was a mysterious word for God. Later saying that he was just kidding.).

What he has transliterated incorrectly above (no "s") is actually not "a word" but two.
---scott on 2/10/15




\\ "Words are defined by context"- Warwick

First it might be helpful for Warwick to define the word define. But\\

It depends on what "is" is.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/10/15


"Words are defined by context"- Warwick

First it might be helpful for Warwick to define the word define. But that gets complicated because that word too, according to our astute friend, has no definition unless it appears in a sentence or paragraph. Whew...hard to keep up with this logic.

Regardless of how the word Banana is used in it's colloquial forms as in "He is bananas because he hears the voice of God", the word is still defined as:

"1. An elongated tapering tropical fruit with soft pulpy flesh enclosed in a soft usually yellow rind.

2. Any of several widely cultivated perennial herbs (genus Musa) bearing bananas in...bunches."

Merriam-Webster
---scott on 2/10/15


Trav, finally you accept the obvious, that the atmosphere would of necessity rise up with the flood-waters. You did not believe that yesterday! Progress.

Air-temperature and wind would be as at sea-level.

You now claim the atmosphere was compressed as the floodwaters rose. Compressed against what? The boiling point of oxygen is -183 c so it has already boiled, going from liquid to gaseous state. Compression and any concomitant temperature rise cannot re-boil that which is already boiled!

Your knowledge of basic science is scant.

How do you know Everest (which has marine fossils at its peak) was of any significant height during the flood?
---Warwick on 2/9/15


What did Noah breathe? As the waters rose the atmosphere must rise above it.---Warwick on 2/7/15

Your global water was over Mount Everest 5.5miles high.
You are correct the atmosphere would rise with the water but, don't realize than all the lighter gases necessary for continued life, (oxygen, nitrogen, fluorine, would boil off into space with the compression of the rising water.
The beginning of the thousands other problems a global flood has.
Bible does not present a "global" flood...your doctrine, built upon 14th century ignorance does. Time only makes you look more and more foolish defending the indefensible.
You can't even include Israel in dialogue, the subject of both covenants tied to Noah.
---Trav on 2/9/15


Scott, wrong again! Was I discussing bananas or Hebrew 'ha-a-res' which has different meanings, defined by context?

Back to banana

He lives in Banana...a town in Queensland Australia.
He lives in Banana..a shire in Queensland.
Bananas in pyjamas...are they bananas or not?
Banana republic...must they grow bananas?
Banana chair...made of bananas?
Big banana Coffs Harbour....is it really a banana?
My friend is a banana bender...does he really bend bananas?

Or is it that we understand these meanings of banana in context?

Maybe you are suffering potassium overdose from too many bananas?

But returning to the point what does Hebrew 'ha-a-res?' mean without resorting to context!!
---Warwick on 2/9/15




trav:
You still haven't answered my question:
... do you think that God will do an incomplete job of final destruction as you assert He did in Noah's flood?
---jerry6593 on 2/8/15

Sorry, just seen your question.
You presume it was more than Noah's relatives being punished. I see it Noah's mixed lineage back to Adam. Son's of GOD, Adams offspring married someone else, like Cain.
Noah, perfect in "generations" specific family saved.
Consider.
Sodom and Gomorrah, one region destroyed.
Lot an specific family members saved.
Israel, is specific in scripture. Who are the Goats, that get separated.
Who are the Tares, the wheat is Israel.
Who do the Apostles Judge? Everyone or Israel.
---Trav on 2/9/15


"Words are defined by context." Warwick

This has always been one of Warwick's oft-repeated gems of wisdom that I have found to be simply hilarious.

Words are defined by context? Whatever you do, don't tell Mr. Webster.

So the word (let's say) banana has no meaning or definition unless it's in a sentence? That's precious.
---scott on 2/9/15


Trav, words are defined by context.
You brought up humility-are you humble?
---Warwick on 2/8/15

Context witnesses. Even simple math or simple science is not your friend or witness. Egyptians records take them through Noah's time and before. They were and established culture when scripture intersects with them.
There was a Biblical Noah's flood, just not in your imaginary,doctrinal context.
1,600+ times "erets" is context for any "sheep" to eat. Hebrew word "tebel" meaning whole or global not being used is context 36 times.
Humble? Humble enough not to brag about going naked on the beach on a Christian web site like you have. What were you thinking ... both times.
---Trav on 2/9/15


Trav,do you imagine"Noah, a preacher of righteousness"... did not warn others?...via floating vegetation mats
---Warwick on 2/7/15

Notable is you constantly adding speculative scenerios.
GOD gives no instruction for Noah to warn the others. You presume.
7 days for your un-biblical global "deluge", is not "slowly rising" water.
Your veggiemats are foolish, not in scripture.
You don't listen to Prophets and in 4 years have never referred to them in regards to the New Covenant.
You are the people in Noahs time. Logic is your god. Your, continual kneeling doctrinal references show other "men" are your true priest and rabbi teachers.
---Trav on 2/9/15


Trav, ...You set a boundary that they may not pass, so that they might not again cover the earth" Psalm 104:8,9.
Nephilim: what is your point?
---Warwick on 2/6/15

6,000 ft? You have water over mountains 29+, to 17 thousand feet high. Noah group would need bottled Oxygen and artic clothing, for the 100+mph jet stream.
Giants are in Numbers when they should have drowned.
The sad thing, is you clinging, promoting an unsustainable, anti-biblical account. You've made a career of a lie. Truth is so much sweeter and easiest to defend.
Here you are again bringing someone you think is smarter than you to your aid. woodmorape makes the Bible a lie. And you a disciple.

2Ti_3:7 Ever learning, and never able ...
---Trav on 2/9/15


Trav, words are defined by context. In Genesis 1:1 we read ..God created the heavens and the earth, Hebrew ha-a-res the earth, the whole earth, obviously not just a region. In the Flood account this exact same word ha-a-res is used 46 times meaning the Flood covered the whole earth see for example Genesis 6:17 (twice) 7:3, 7:21, 8:3, 8:7, 9,11 and 13.

The Noachian genealogies (Genesis 10:1-32) show that the civilizations you mention are descendants of Noah, therefore did not exist during the Flood. For one example Mizraim is what the Hebrews called Egypt, whose people were descended from Noah. .

You brought up humility-are you humble?
---Warwick on 2/8/15


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Trav:

You still haven't answered my question:

Do you also think that the lake of fire will be local and some of the wicked will escape punishment?

That is, do you think that God will do an incomplete job of final destruction as you assert He did in Noah's flood?



---jerry6593 on 2/8/15


Trav,do you imagine"Noah, a preacher of righteousness" 2 Peter 2:5 "being warned by God" Hebrews 11:7 did not warn others?
Does God not give warning?
Would not the long-term building of the massive ark warn people?.
Would not the slowly rising flood waters (no tsunami) warn people?
Why not walk away?

What did Noah breathe? As the waters rose the atmosphere must rise above it. Where do you imagine it went?
Six miles up? Where do get that idea?

That new species of plants are introduced to other lands via floating vegetation mats shows seeds are salt resistant. You also assume oceans then were as salty as today. False. Relevantly salmon handle both saline and fresh water.
---Warwick on 2/7/15


Leon remember Adam and Eve were created perfect , before sin therefore before the curse which still exists. Therefore I consider it no stretch to consider they were significantly more intelligent than we today.

They also had a personal relationship with their maker and again it is no stretch to consider that God told them that which He considered they needed to know.

I cannot imagine God set up the lights of Genesis 1:14 without telling Adam and Eve what their purpose was.
---Warwick on 2/6/15


Leon: "Obviously Moses (the inspired author of the first five books of the Bible) had God-given insight into the ages of Adam, Methuselah, Noah, etc. But, did Adam, Methuselah, Noah "know" how old they were?"

Adam, and all his descendants, kept the weekly Sabbath as commanded by God. They counted six days (evenings and mornings) and rested the seventh day. It is modern man - not the ancients - who is too stupid to follow God's timetable.

Why do you ask such questions? Isn't the Word of God sufficient for you?


---jerry6593 on 2/7/15


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Warwick: Are you saying, starting with Adam, mankind immediately grasped the concept of days, years, seasons & instantly began to calculate his age based on the celestial calendar? Maybe that's true since God also gave Noah some very sophiscated measuring instructions for the Ark. It would seem the early men were quick studies of their earthly & heavenly environments.
---Leon on 2/6/15


Leon, 'And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years," Genesis 1:14 Why would anyone, having read this, wonder if Adam et al knew how old they were?
---Warwick on 2/6/15


Trav, it would be a good idea for you to read what God says. "The mountains rose, the valleys sank down to the place that you appointed for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass, so that they might not again cover the earth" Psalm 104:8,9. As you can see God says the flood waters ran off the earth, through the valleys, back to the oceans from whence they came.

Read 'Noahs Ark: A Feasibility Study' by scientist John Woodmorappe, who demonstrates there was plenty of space for the limited number of animals God commanded Noah to take. You probably believe the ark had to take representatives of all 'species' on earth- not what Gods word says.

Nephilim: what is your point?
---Warwick on 2/6/15


Trav, you have answered nothing,
---Warwick on 2/5/15

And you have tens of thousands of problems. Besides the 1,600+ witnesses Hebrew "erets" is used and the 36 times "tebel" is not.
Besides the knowledge that Egypt marches through the flood, Summerians, Chinese, Phoenician's, Minoan's, etc do also, LARGE populations thriving before and after flood.

Gathered: All Israel is sifted and gathered.
Mat_25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations:...divideth his sheep from the goats:
Eze 39:28 ...but I have gathered them unto their own land,...
Psa_107:3 gathered them out of the lands, from the east, from the west, from the north, and from the south.
---Trav on 2/6/15


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Trav, you have answered nothing,
---Warwick on 2/5/15

My turn.
1. What did Noah breathe? You've got him six miles in the frigid 100mph wind atmosphere above Everest.
2. Where did your water go? A 12'' drain/evap rate per day it would take over 200 years. Bible says it didn't.
3. Saline water kills things. Trees, grass, flowers, shrubs, insects, fresh water fish. Ten's of thousands of Species requiring 40+ Arks.
4.Genesis 6:4, "There were giants [nephilim]...and Numbers 13:33, "And there we saw the giants [nephilim], the sons of Anak, which come of the giants...(Hmmm seem they swam out)
The only thing on your Ark is you, floating your chosen deception. Through un GODly fear,(lo$$ of face and income).
---Trav on 2/6/15


Jerry: You miss the point. Obviously Moses (the inspired author of the first five books of the Bible) had God-given insight into the ages of Adam, Methuselah, Noah, etc. But, did Adam, Methuselah, Noah "know" how old they were?
---Leon on 2/6/15


Trav, you have answered nothing,
What stopped them?
Where does Scripture mention these civilizations which "march through the flood?"
---Warwick on 2/5/15

Answers for you? You're obviously not the intended recipient. I'd presume most of the water went where your false flood water went. Back through the fountains it sprang from.
Large Ark? Ha. Your foolish theory needs 40+ Arks.
Who would tell the people and animals to leave? GOD warned Noah, not them.
Scripture is written by Israels family to Israels family and for Israels family. Gen to Revelations.
Egyptians and others wrote concerning their own. You write concerning yours. Not Israels.
---Trav on 2/6/15


Leon: "At some point humanity certainly did, but what about Adam & Eve, Cain & Abel, Methuselah, Noah, etc.?"

Have you ever read the Bible?

Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Gen 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

Gen 9:29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.


---jerry6593 on 2/6/15


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God tells us how people measured time, right from the beginning: 'And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years," Genesis 1:14
---Warwick on 2/5/15


Trav, you have answered nothing,

Do you say the Turim basin is totally surrounded by mountains, not one valley for flood-waters to flow away?

Why a massive ark for a regional flood? If regional all animals and humans had months to leave. What stopped them?

Where does Scripture mention these civilizations which "march through the flood?"

The Genealogies of Genesis 4:17-26 , 5: 1-31 are exclusive, showing all pre-Flood people descended from Adam. The genealogies of Genesis 10:1-32 also exclusive, telling us all post-Flood people are descended from Noah. All others perished-Genesis 7:21. No one marched through the Flood.
---Warwick on 2/5/15


...man learned to determine the lengths of days, months, years by looking at the moon & stars. They likely would've been able to better do so after the "worldwide" flood when the canopy of water, engulfing the earth, fell upon it.
---Leon on 2/5/15

Leon, you say this mist in Gen 2:6 blotted out the stars and moon daily,nightly monthly?
Where in scripture is your "tebel" worldwide canopy blocking stars, moon and sun? Before Noah.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
---Trav on 2/5/15


Leon: "Since there were no calendars, did the people in the Bible know how Individually old they were?

Apparently so. The Bibles records their ages...
---jerry6593 on 2/4/15


At some point humanity certainly did, but what about Adam & Eve, Cain & Abel, Methuselah, Noah, etc.? By the time of Moses's written Bible record, I don't doubt people knew due to God giving knowledge of it.

We could argue from man's observation of repetitive night & day light periods man learned to determine the lengths of days, months, years by looking at the moon & stars. They likely would've been able to better do so after the "worldwide" flood when the canopy of water, engulfing the earth, fell upon it.
---Leon on 2/5/15


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Trav, you have answered nothing.
I asked- if the flood was local. Why an Ark? No answer.
---Warwick on 2/4/15

Actually, I answered all. I can't make you comprehend scripture, when you've chosen to be doctrinally blind. Sheep will see.
GOD told him to build and Ark, I posted the scripture. He obeyed. It was also their home for a year or longer. Covenant also was with Animals Noah took.
Civilizations march through the flood period.
You'll recreate any scenerio to be descended from Noah. But, you don't claim to be Israel or look for them. Interesting.
Jud_1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
---Trav on 2/4/15


Trav, you suggested I lack 'humility' so may I ask you: are you humble?

You say "Turim Basin is surrounded by mountains." Now as you refer to my "doctrinally short logic" where is this basin mentioned in Scripture as the location of Noah's Flood?

Secondly are you saying this basin is a large region totally surrounded by mountains with not one valley for flood-waters to flow away?
---Warwick on 2/4/15


Trav: "It doesn't for the fact, [sic] that it was Noah's family tree that was wicked and destroyed.

What? You are terribly confused. According to the Bible, it was Noah and his family who were saved from destruction!

You still haven't answered my question:

Do you also think that the lake of fire will be local and some of the wicked will escape punishment?



---jerry6593 on 2/5/15


Trav, you have answered nothing.

I asked- if the flood was local. Why an Ark? No answer. If the flood covered only a region all animals and humans there had plenty of time to emigrate. Why did they not walk and fly away? What stopped the evil people from walking away?

You write "birds can fly away? Chickens, domestic fowl don't." Chickens can fly. Their wing feathers are clipped to stop them doing so.

Genesis 4:17-26,5:1-31 says all pre-Flood people are descended from Adam, excluding the possibility of any who are not from Adam. Is God right about this Trav?

Genesis 10:1-32 shows all post-Flood people are descendants of Noah. Is God right about this also Trav?
---Warwick on 2/4/15


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Trav: Your local flood theory undermines...
---jerry6593 on 2/4/15

Understand your point. It doesn't for the fact, that it was Noah's family tree that was wicked and destroyed.
Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men ...
Noah is specifically called Perfect in his Generations and saved.
Note that, this Book is written by, for and too the family tree of Israel. The commandments are to Israel.
Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31.
Rom_9:4 Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, the promises,

Do all have a better light that honor "Israels" GOD. Yes. Are all punished for not being given Israels law?
---Trav on 2/4/15


warwick: Trav, if the flood was local. Why an Ark? Gen 6:12 God looked upon the "erets",... upon the "erets".
massive vessel? ...
Gen_9:12,Gen 6:21 ...food for thee, and for them. (home for a year)

Why animals?
Gen_9:12 God said,... covenant ... between me and you and every living creature with you,..:
birds can fly away? Chickens, domestic fowl don't.
Mat 24:37-39...who are these 'all'..Jesus says are to be judged?
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field, one taken, the other left.
Mat_19:28 ... twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luk_22:30 ... judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
...what stopped it flowing away? Turim Basin is surrounded by mountains.
---Trav on 2/4/15


... all post-flood peoples are descended from Noah?
---Warwick on 2/3/15

There-in lies your chosen self deception.
Several civilizations march through Noah's flood.
Any "Sheep" seeking freedom of the foolish deceptions of your doctrinally short logic vs GOD's scripture and prophets can research from their armchairs. Searching facts or Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic and original writings.
Those fearful (you) or otherwise lose even the "talent" intrusted with when the travelling master departed last....
Mat_25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat_25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, ....
---Trav on 2/4/15


Trav,"whatever is under the whole heaven is mine"Job 41:11 This language is used elsewhere always meaning global, e.g. Genesis 7:19 "the waters prevailed...that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered."

Does God own everything or just under part of heaven?

The genealogies of Genesis 4:17-26, 5:1-31 show all preFlood people descended from Adam. The exclusive genealogies of Genesis 10:1-32 show all postFlood peoples came from Noah.

Genesis 6:13 "I am going to put an end to all people." 17 "I am going to destroy all life under the heavens.." If only people of a region were destroyed how come all post-flood peoples are descended from Noah?
---Warwick on 2/3/15


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Leon: "Since there were no calendars, did the people in the Bible know how individually old they were?

Apparently so. The Bibles records their ages.



Trav: Your local flood theory undermines the sole purpose of God's destruction of the wicked in the flood. Do you also think that the lake of fire will be local and some of the wicked will escape punishment?



---jerry6593 on 2/4/15


Trav, NT verses about the Flood use whole earth language.

"The flood came and took them 'all' away"-Jesus Matthew 24:39.
"The flood came and destroyed them 'all.'-Jesus, Luke 17:27.
"did not spare the ancient world (Greek kosmos:whole world, world system,),but preserved Noah,..and seven others, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly." 2 Peter 2:5.
"...eight people, were saved through the water" 1 Peter 3:20.
Noah "condemned the world through his faith in God" Hebrews 11:7.
"The world that then was, being flooded by water, perished." 2 Peter 3:6

No region hinted at, conversely Matthew 10:15 specifies the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah!
---Warwick on 2/3/15


Trav, if the flood was local:

Why was there need of an ark at all?

Why such a massive vessel if only to house 8 humans and some local animals?

Why was there need to have animals on the ark, at all?

Why birds-they can fly away?

Why were only these locals judged worthy of destruction?

If the flood was localized why did Jesus liken it to the coming universal judgement of 'all' men-Matthew 24:37-39.

If 'all' doesn't mean 'all' who are these 'all' who are not all, whom Jesus says are to be judged?

If the flood was local and the waters rose above all the high mountains, what stopped it flowing away?'
---Warwick on 2/3/15


Trav, you have not addressed the issue, what Scripture says,...
---Warwick on 2/2/15

Go seek help...from your supposed friends. I'll wait here with my GOD.
Psa 19:4: "the "erets" earth, and their words to the end of the "tebel" world. In them hath he set a tabernacle...
Isa 24:4: "The "erets"earth mourneth and fadeth away, the "tebel" world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people"
Jer 10:12: "the "erets" earth by his power, he hath established the "tebel" world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out...
Lam 4:12: "of the "erets" earth, and all the inhabitants of the "tebel" world, would not have believed ...
---Trav on 2/3/15


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Trav,
You boldly say God has never since killed "all" creatures in an area. How do you know this?
...God has lied as there have been countless small and massive floods...
---Warwick on 2/3/15

Know? God doesn't lie. Your a smart guy, ask Christ for help...then think this through...past your teachers. (who are not Christ)
Hebrew "tebel" whole world found 36 times.
"erets" over 1600+ usages. Country, land, Region.
GOD honored his Covenant. There never has been a country dimensioned flood since. Historic floods since are caused by River or Monsoon. Also not from the "deep" fountains. Rivers flood. People choose river habitat, gambling, with the recurring historical peril.
---Trav on 2/3/15


Trav, again you miss the point. I am referring to what two Biblical witnesses say, not my logic.

You boldly say God has never since killed "all" creatures in an area. How do you know this?

In Genesis and Isaiah God has promised He will never again flood "erets" (in your terms 'a region'). But if you are correct God has lied as there have been countless small and massive floods ever since.

" and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground" Genesis 7:4. If this means that only the living creatures in your unknown, imagined region were to perish why does God say He was going to kill all living creatures He had ever made?
---Warwick on 2/3/15


Trav,
Gen 9:11. You say earth ('erets') means an area, ...not the whole earth, ...
---Warwick on 2/2/15

He has never killed "all" in an area since. GOD didn't advise people to live along the Indus/Yangtze rivers. Rivers!
You are using your "logic" and it fails being logical first. You attempt to make the Bible fit your decision/doctrine. 1st deceiving yourself.
1600+ witnessed uses for "erets" as in Isa 54:9 drown your doctrine. 36 witnesses for the hebrew word "tebel" step on your defense. Tebel, means the entire world. As used here along with "erets".
Jer 51:15 He hath made the earth(erets) by his power, he hath established the world (tebel) by his wisdom,...
---Trav on 2/2/15


Trav, you have not addressed the issue, what Scripture says, only attempted to play the man.

As you know God's word says "I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." Genesis 9:11. You say earth ('erets') means an area, a locality , not the whole earth, therefore in the above Scripture you have God saying He will never flood a locality/area again. But He has countless times! This promise is repeated in Isaiah 54:9-two witnesses!

In your interpretation you have God lying.

Step up and address the issue, the Scriptures, the Scriptural witnesses, not the man.
---Warwick on 2/2/15


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Trav,
God, the Greatest witness... Does He ever lie?
---Warwick on 1/30/15

GOD never lies. Men do. And I'd say you don't purposefully in that what you can't/don't/won't conceive, being married to your doctrine of men, forces you to defend the doctrine.
Been there, done that.
Noah happened, Flood happened. Just not the way you need it too for your doctrines.
Sheep seeking truth, through the "only" teacher will float truthfully past you with the resources available these days.
I thank GOD for this.
At the same time we'll pray that should you ever humble yourself enough to ask the only teacher....
---Trav on 2/2/15


Trav, what we need to remember is "I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth."Genesis 9:11 If Noah's flood was a local event then God's promise above is meaningless, as there have been countless local floods, small and massive since.

However Noah's flood was global, therefore God's promise stands.

God, the Greatest witness repeats His promise "I swore that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth" Isaiah 54:9. Again if Noah's flood was not worldwide God has sworn falsely making His covenant a lie! Does He ever lie?
---Warwick on 1/30/15


Genesis 9:11 -I will establish my covenant with you : neither shall all flesh be cut off....
---RichardC on 1/28/15

There have been many floods since. Statistically it seems to those that live or unwisely congregate along rivers that have flooded for centuries.
This Gen covenant was made to Noah and... all flesh. And has proven true.
The New Covenant Heb 8:8 or Jer 31:31 doesn't say all flesh.
The word covenant is found 272 times in scripture. But the one in place to NT flood allegory is this one. Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 1/29/15


Yes, they knew when their New Year was, the month of Aviv, which they celebrated Passover. They were to let the land rest every seventh year, and they were supposed to keep Jubilee every fifty years, if I remember right. In addition, they had instructions to tithe so much every few years. So, they must have been able to tract the years. Granted they used the moon instead of the sun, but they would have corrected the year to keep their harvests in the right time of year. I doubt that they would know an exact date/day they were born like we do today.
---Rod4Him on 1/29/15


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Genesis 9:11 - And I will establish my covenant with you : neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the water of the flood: neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth,
---RichardC on 1/28/15


The Flood location.
Gen 7:4: "For yet seven days, I will cause it to rain upon the land [erets] forty days and forty nights, every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the land [adamah' -- ADAM'S LAND].

Did Noah's Flood Cover the Highest Mountains? by: John D Keyser.
Interesting link sent to me by a friend, (no he's not a slanted supposed scientist, just a seeker of truth) a study of a Global vs a Regional (erets, country, land) flood.
For any of Christ's sheep who don't post perhaps, but read and research past doctrinal shortcomings.
2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
---Trav on 1/26/15


I was just jabbin you.

I think peter norton bought it.
---aka on 1/22/15


Sorreee. My mystake. I was thinking of Norton when it popped up on my screen. I didn't think it would cause such a ruckus.
---Steveng on 1/22/15


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\\You've never used the word.\\

Never have had to heretofore.

\\Does it give you a warm feeling to correct him?\\

Instructing the ignorant has always been considered a spiritual work of mercy.

\\ Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.\\

Without looking at your Bible, can you tell me what the next verse says?

May I point out that Jesus Himself did not hesitate to speak of "Father Abraham" and other fathers. St. Paul and St. Stephen addressed gatherings in synagogues as "fathers."

In his letters, St. John referred to people as "fathers".

Did they sin thereby?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/15


The word is spelled "semantics". There's no :Y in it.
---Cluny on 1/22/15

There is now.
I understood him fine. You did too, or you wouldn't know the word to correct.
You've never used the word.
Does it give you a warm feeling to correct him? Make you feel a little smarter in at least one thing?
Admit you looked up the word to even correct him...when it didn't need correcting.

Orthodox teach this you say?
What was your first blog name you dropped for your cats name again? Grammerman??

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
---Trav on 1/22/15


The word is spelled "semantics". There's no :Y in it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/15


A little sensitive?
As for the words "earth" and "world" they both mean the same thing.
It's a matter of symanitcs - using worldly knowledge instead of spiritual knowledge.
---Steveng on 1/21/15

I said hate me ... not me you. Personally like you and your man stand, no matter we differ on a thing or two.
It took years of searching, comparing and research to determine what is witnessed truth opposed to some of the doctrines we've been taught. I did this for me. Every man has his own searching to do.
We defend what we know...until we know better.
Spiritual? Vs Worldly? You used what you believe is common knowledge to answer. Research water pressure of this flood.
---Trav on 1/22/15


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Words (i.e. earth) are defined by context. The whole of the flood epic only makes sense if it covered the whole earth. No region, or country is ever mentioned in the flood epic whereas in other judgements the place is mentioned e.g. Jerusalem, Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 7:19 reads "And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered." Why would God say all the mountains under all the heavens if He really meant to say some mountains under some heavens were covered? Does He lie, make mistakes, or not know what actually happened?

Further how could the flood be local as the waters rose above all the mountains? Would not the water simply flow away? What would stop it?
---Warwick on 1/22/15


Linguistic semantics is the study of meaning that is used for understanding human expression through language, which include synonymy. Hebrew is more precise than English generally speaking. I don't think hebrew earth and world are as synonymous as the two English words.

Symantec was foundedin 1982 byGary Hendrix. I don't know what symanitcs are.
---aka on 1/21/15


Trav wrote: "Even if you hate me for it."

A little sensitive? You and Cluny should get together to visit me sometime. If you knew me better, you'll find I don't hate anyone. My friends, neighbors, co-workers and bosses and aquaintances will attest to that.

As for the words "earth" and "world" they both mean the same thing. It's a matter of symanitcs - using worldly knowledge instead of spiritual knowledge. God covered the earth with water that covered the highest mountain during the flood. It was not regional.
---Steveng on 1/21/15


Trav wrote: "...and a plan that housed all the pairs of animals in the region."

Not only the region, but from the whole world.
---Steveng on 1/19/15

Region was intentional as that is what is said in scripture. If you look the word world is not used until Job 34:13. Earth is used for the original Hebrew word Erets. 'a & #774,da & #770,ma & #770,h
ad-aw-maw'
From H119, soil (from its general redness): - country, earth, ground, husband [-man] (-ry), land.

Having made the Universe...GOD can do as he will with all of it. Facts are that he didn't do it the way we've been taught the last few centuries. I won't post what I've found not to be truth. Even if you hate me for it.
---Trav on 1/20/15


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Leon wrote: "...did they (the early people) really know about the passage of time & their own ages?"

God gave them the knowledge of which he gives freely.


Trav wrote: "...and a plan that housed all the pairs of animals in the region."

Not only the region, but from the whole world. God guided these animals to the ark as Noah was building it. Genesis 6:20, Genesis 7:3, 14
---Steveng on 1/19/15


Micha: Do you suppose, since the early people didn't have a Bible to read to gain knowledge of the creation & their own personal longivity, did they really know about the passage of time & their own ages?
---Leon on 1/19/15


Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Seth:
Gen 5:21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
Gen 8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first [month], the first [day] of the month,
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
-The record, most likely written and not just verbal, must have been quite early.
days/seasons/years
---micha9344 on 1/19/15


Primitive as they were, there was a plethora of kept records of various milestones.
---aka on 1/16/15

Searching...looking at this from all angles, we still find primitive peoples around the world. By the comparison...cursed Cain built a city and his sons worked metal, Gen 4:22 ...Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron:...
Noah built a ship, with tools and a plan that housed all the pairs of animals in the region.
Someone as you say kept the records...enough...yet scanty in the beginning. The scantiness has produced what is believed today.
Gen 1 and Gen 2, grows wider every day.
---Trav on 1/19/15


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As Adam and Eve were directly and perfectly created by God I cannot comprehend why anyone would imagine they were in any way "primitive." Were they not in walking/talking relationship with God? Would He have left them in the dark, no pun intended?

It appears to me that they would have been much more intelligent than modern man who is, after all, what is left after 6,000 years of the curse. I believe we are, in comparison to Adam and Eve, residents of the shallow end of the gene pool.
---Warwick on 1/19/15


"Were they cognizant enough to realize & record the passing of time?" Yes, of course, at least after the law was given. "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,..." Exo 20:9,10 Before the law and commerce I doubt if any one ever really thought about it. Yes Leon, that is 'my' opinion:o)
---josef on 1/18/15


"In Genesis, God set up the 24 hour day and night. That seems to be a pretty good calendar."
---shira4368 on 1/16/15


No doubt Shira & Josef, God knew exactly what time it was, but did Adam & Eve, etc., other than knowing it was light for a while & then it was dark? Were they cognizant enough to realize & record the passing of time?

"Primitive as they were, there was a plethora of kept records of various milestones.

In ways. I think the had a better grasp of time. We seem to have very little of it from even 20 years ago."
---aka on 1/16/15


Aka: So, when & how did mankind start keeping records of time as it relates to creation (to include themselves)?
---Leon on 1/16/15


But there WERE calendars and other ways of measuring time, Leon.

People knew that agricultural seasons were on a yearly cycle, for one thing.

Time tended to be measured according to the year of the king's reign.

Jews and Babylonians and others used a lunar calendar to determine when the new month (compare "new moon") began.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/16/15


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Excerpt from Investopedia Article

Ancient Accounting Systems
By Marv Dumon

Ancient accounting methods emerged thousands of years ago - perhaps more than 10,000 years ago - in what we now regard as the Middle East region. Sumerians in Mesopotamia, Babylonians and the ancient Egyptians recognized the need for counting and measuring the results of labor and effort. As these ancient societies built more complex civilizations, the need to conduct simple arithmetic, writing and trade emerged. These ingredients eventually led to the formations of currency, capital, private property arrangements and systems for commerce and public management.
---aka on 1/16/15


Do you know if there were?
---Leon on 1/15/15


Primitive as they were, there was a plethora of kept records of various milestones.

In ways. I think the had a better grasp of time. We seem to have very little of it from even 20 years ago.
---aka on 1/16/15


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