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Is USA Christian

If the United States is 83% christian then why is it in such a mess?

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 ---Steveng on 1/18/15
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Leon, yes, it would.
---learner2 on 1/27/15


Leon, I'm probably a goat.
---learner2 on 1/27/15


That's "probably" your conscious choice to butt up against the Word of God, Learner. That certainly would explain a lot about the things you say here.
---Leon on 1/27/15


Leon, I'm probably a goat.
---learner2 on 1/27/15


How do you follow God?
---learner2 on 1/26/15


"My sheep listen to my voice, I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27
---Leon on 1/27/15


Deut30 :1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, 3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

Aservant, This is about LAND not salvation. No one can be guaranteed salvation because their parents AND CHILDREN obeyed THE LAW.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/15




How do you follow God?
---learner2 on 1/26/15


The USA is in such a mess because it's 83% christian. If it followed GOD it would not be in this mess
---mike on 1/26/15


aservant, I guess I'm not interested enough. But happy you are.
---learner2 on 1/26/15



aservant, I am not one of the predestined but I am very happy that you are. God be with you.
---learner2 on 1/26/15


Most people don't know they are saved until the Spirit starts making changes inside of them.

You may be saved and the Spirit has not yet started "conforming" you to God.

You can always pray and ask Him to start changing your heart toward Him. If He does, you know you were predestined.

Dt 30:6(GNB) The LORD your God will give you and your descendants obedient hearts, so that you will love him with all your heart, and you will continue to live in that land.
---aservant on 1/26/15


aservant, I am not one of the predestined but I am very happy that you are. God be with you.
---learner2 on 1/26/15




aservant, you're too modest.
---learner2 on 1/25/15


Seriously, please give praise, thanks to the Mechanic, not the screwdriver.

Whatever I am today, all credit goes to the Jehovah Elohim, who saved me from myself. I am nobody. I can find Scripture. The Spirit is constantly teaching me the application of Scripture. That's it.
---aservant on 1/26/15


---Darlene_1 on 1/25/15

I know nothing about Oneness or Trinity, and I know little about most congregational groups or their doctrine or aims.

Here is what I do know, if the individuals are not Spirit-filled they do not belong to Jesus, and are not saved. Rom 8:9

If they are not Spirit-filled, they cannot consistently do God's Will. If they are not yielded to Jesus, they are not the Bride. Rom 6:13, 16, 19
---aservant on 1/26/15


Glenn:

From your post, it sounds like you don't consider someone a Christian unless he is an Evangelical. Most Christians in the world aren't Evangelicals, and would strongly disagree with you.
---StrongAxe on 1/26/15


Sin, Romans 3:10-19 vs. 6:23.
If the Barna group surveys' are correct, only 38% of Americans would consider themselves to be Evangelicals. A further qualification based on their "9-point evangelicals" test (itself based on the National Association of Evangelicals Statement of Faith) reduces this number to 8%. For example, in one question concerned the belief in the Holy Spirit as "a living entity" - only a quarter of the respondents strongly agreed. ...Only my opinion, but based on the myriads of often foolish laws on the books, there are a dearth of God fearing Christians in most governments. Job 12:16, Isaiah 19:3, 1Corinthians 1:18-31, 3:19-20.
---Glenn on 1/25/15


aservsant I'm sorry you misunderstood what I was doing. I didn't say anything about you being right or wrong on that but used it as a stepping stone to what I wanted to say about Oneness and Trinity. We must be redeemed by the Blood,buried with Christ in the water, and filled with the Spirit. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/25/15


aservant, you're too modest.
---learner2 on 1/25/15


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aservant, but you are God's spokesman.
---learner2 on 1/25/15


I am just a lowly servant.
---aservant on 1/25/15


Who decides who the real Christians are?
---learner2 on 1/20/15

Cluny ask aservant if he was saying that both Trinity and Oneness Pentecostals are right when he said the Spirit filled were Christians . . .
---Darlene_1 on 1/25/15


Rom 8:9 . . . Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

No indwelling Spirit = no real Christian


1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:27 . . . ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth . . .
---aservant on 1/25/15


aservant, but you are God's spokesman.
---learner2 on 1/25/15


We can always know when a person is Christian the Bible tells us how,first of all we try the spirits do they live by the Bible. Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree brings good fruit,but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. John 13:35 By this shall all men know that you are my disciples,if you love one another. Learn the love chapter in First Corinthians:13,learn it well and it will be a guide to a persons life,theirs and ours. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/25/15


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Cluny ask aservant if he was saying that both Trinity and Oneness Pentecostals are right when he said the Spirit filled were Christians. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father,the Word-Jesus,and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one. It appears to me both the Trinity and the Oneness are wrong,Trinity ignores the Bible says the three are one and Oneness ignore that the Bible says there are three who make the one.The Bible Matthew 23:24 says people gag on a gnat and swallow a camel. Denominations seem to take pride in their differences and never try to see how they are alike. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/25/15


"Cluny, Leon was not saying, he determines who will be save and who will not be saved. I don't know why you even mentioned what you did. He said the decision was in God's hands. Even gave the passage, Matthew 7:15-21... No one knows who is saved and who is not. We only know our own status. Many here do not even know their own status... "
---Luke on 1/23/15


Thx Luke, but Cluny (like so many self serving christians) has a salt-less agenda & isn't really interested in the whole truth. It's all about his particular religious persuasion.
---Leon on 1/25/15


aservant, you are right, as always.
---learner2 on 1/24/15


Only God is always right, always the Truth.
---aservant on 1/25/15


Steveng, personally I do not believe the USA is even close to 83% christian. There may be 83% professing to be christians, however, If christian, generally defined as Christ follower, there would be no hatred, animosity, prejudice, ill will, or injustice within them. As an american I see these characteristics manifest daily in people one way or the other, even in this day and age of supposed christian enlightenment and intelligence . If only 17% percent of the people who dwell here manifest those characteristic, they would be rarely seen, for there is no place for them in love, or Christ. I know, even as "christian", there remains a need for mind renewal, however love is the first gift offered of the Spirit, and love does no harm.
---joseph on 1/25/15


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learner: "Do you think that all Christian doctrines must come from the Bible? Where did you get that idea? It's not taught in the Bible."


Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


---jerry6593 on 1/25/15


aservant, you are right, as always.
---learner2 on 1/24/15


11timothy 3:16 talks about the bible being used for doctrine.
---shira4368 on 1/24/15


---Peter on 1/24/15

---learner2 implied that Christian Doctrine may not come from the Bible, that there is no mention of it in the Bible.

I wanted him answer where he thought that doctrine might come from in view of the magnitude of Christ's persona, in view of no one else being more qualified than Jesus to establish CHRISTian Doctrine.
---aservant on 1/24/15


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aservant on 1/24/15: You failed to read the statement made by learner2 before you replied, but also in your answer you have one error.

The first thing is you missed leaner's comment 'the Bible AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT' - i.e. is the statement that Samuel made a correct interpretation of the Bible? Are we sure?

The second point is that you answer with the assumption that everything Christ would state can be understood (by us) from the Bible.

Are you sure about that? I am certainly not so sure. If we could ask Christ, and He would answer to our question, and not to our limitations (as Christ often did), we could, yes, get an answer.

But can you use the bible to get Christ's direct anwer?
---Peter on 1/24/15


Jesus Christ's sheep hear His voice and do not follow another > John 10:1-30.

For one thing, I don't think it is Christ's voice which has a number of religious leaders ordaining psychopaths and predators and con artists. But I am sure plenty of these leaders' followers say they are Christians, though they trust leaders whom God has not qualified to select and ordain the right people (1 Timothy 3:1-10).

So, say-so is not enough. There is religion that is a mess, not only secular stuff.

But Jesus says, "I have overcome the world," in John 16:33. So, He may not be about changing this evil world, but changing us who trust and obey Him (Ephesians 2:12, Matthew 11:28-30).
---com7fy8 on 1/24/15


Samuel, why do you think that all doctrines must stem from the Bible as you understand it? Do you think that all Christian doctrines must come from the Bible? Where did you get that idea? It's not taught in the Bible.
---learner2 on 1/22/15


Since Christ is the Word, the Author, the Creator, the Truth, The Witness, The High Priest, the Gate, the First, the Last, the Firstborn, the Holy One, Immanuel, the Lamb, the Light, Lord, the Only Begotten, the Prophet, the Cornerstone, the Resurrection, the Life, the Rock, the Savior, the Source, the Way and the embodiment many other admirable traits, where else might doctrines re Christ reasonably come from, other than His Word?
---aservant on 1/24/15


Well Strongax I can agree with you that there are some traditions that are good and we follow.

I also agree that no tradition that contradicts the Bible is true.

My the LORD bless you and keep you.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/24/15


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It is true that the United States was founded on Christian principles, and that the majority of us are Christian. The problem is that we have been fed so much propaganda that we have put the anti-Christian forces (atheists, communists, muslims & democrats) in control of our government.


---jerry6593 on 1/24/15


Samuelbb7:

I never said that a tradition that contradicts the bible supercedes it - just that there are some traditions (e.g. that canonicity of bible books) that are true, despite the fact that they aren't in the bible itself. Those scholars and religious leaders "worked out" which books were inspired - but that work was their own inspired best guesses based on long-standing tradition, not something they read in scripture. There is no scripture that says the epistle to the Colossians is inspired, while the epistle to the Laodiceans is not.
---StrongAxe on 1/23/15


\\Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.\\

Yes, there are traditions of men.

But St. Paul said there is a tradition according to Christ!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/23/15


Samuel, if you want to believe in sola scriptura, that's okay with me, but it is a man-made doctrine dating, as you said, from the time of the Reformation.
---learner2 on 1/23/15


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The Bible was established about 1,500 years ago. When Scholars and religious leaders worked out what was written by the Apostles and which earlier church leaders had advocated so as to have the words inspired by the Apostles for the New Testament. The Old Testament was established by Jewish councils.

Yes in one place Paul mentions traditions. So are you saying He taught one thing in a tradition and a contrary teaching in the Bible? Wouldn't that mean that Paul did not know what he taught?

So you believe that a tradition that is contradictory to the Bible can be taught on the traditions of men.

Mark 7:7

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/23/15


Cluny, Leon was not saying, he determines who will be save and who will not be saved. I don't know why you even mentioned what you did. He said the decision was in God's hands. Even gave the passage, Matthew 7:15-21. Also, when aservant said that the doctrines he presented from the Catholic Church were wrong, he was not saying that all Catholics are not saved. He mentioned the doctrines that are false.
No one knows who is saved and who is not. We only know our own status. Many here do not even know their own status.
What we do know as children of God, as the elect, is that we cannot be deceived.
---Luke on 1/23/15


Samuelbb7:

You said: That is called Sola Scriptora and has been a Protestant teaching since the time of Martin Luther.

Why? Because the Bible says so. Jesus used "it is Written" to answer the devil and his enemies.


"If it is written, it is true" does not necessarily imply "If it is not written, it is false". Paul made reference to traditions that were taught. The very contents of the Bible itself are determined by tradition. The Bible has no table of contents that says which books are inspired. Is, say, the Gospel of John in the Bible? If so, how do you know? Because a council hundreds of years decided it was, based on tradition that was not, itself, written in the Bible.
---StrongAxe on 1/23/15


It would be a surprise to me if the USA was 83% Christian, it's more like maybe 83% call themselves Christian rather than anything else, such as Muslim, etc.
---WIVV on 1/23/15


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If Christ determines who is a real Christian, that means that YOU do not, Leon.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/15


Yes Lerner2 I believe that all doctrines must come from the Bible. That is called Sola Scriptora and has been a Protestant teaching since the time of Martin Luther.

Why? Because the Bible says so. Jesus used "it is Written" to answer the devil and his enemies.

2Ti 3:16
All scrmothyipture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Doctrine must be based on the Written word of GOD. Traditions are to not go against the written word of GOD. Anything that does is a false doctrine.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/23/15


Leon, no argument with that!
---learner2 on 1/22/15


Who determines who is a "true Christian," Gordon?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/20/15


Who decides who the real Christians are?
---learner2 on 1/20/15

CHRIST DETERMINES/DECIDES ~ Matthew 7:15-21

---Leon on 1/22/15


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Assuming the U.S. might be 83% christian, I would then have to assume the Church (Body of Christ) in the USA is living in apostasy: the shadow of Matthew 5:13.
---Leon on 1/22/15


Spirit-filled is the key word. All of us have the same Spirit indwelling. In that Spirit we are in agreement.
---aservant on 1/22/15


Samuel, why do you think that all doctrines must stem from the Bible as you understand it? Do you think that all Christian doctrines must come from the Bible? Where did you get that idea? It's not taught in the Bible.
---learner2 on 1/22/15


\\All Spirit-filled Christians are correct interpreters of Scriptural doctrine.\\

In other words, both Trinitarian Pentecostals and Oneness (anti-Trinitarian) Pentecostals are correct.

Is this what you are saying?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/15


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- 2 -
All Spirit-filled Christians are correct interpreters of Scriptural doctrine. The Spirit lives inside them to teach them. 1Jo_2:20-21, 27, Joh_14:26, Joh_16:13

Never in Scripture does God obey a priest's command.

1. Scripture says Christ now has a glorified body, not that He turned into a wafer that is His ACTUAL Blood and ACTUAL flesh.
2. NOT sinning is a function INTERNAL to man, not an external function of a wafer.
---aservant on 1/22/15


Dear Lerner2 these doctrines are not from the Bible.

"The Catholic Church teaches that it is the only source of salvation for sinners."

Salvation comes through Jesus not the RCC.

"Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can forgive sins."

They have mollified this doctrine but grace to them only comes through the Pope. Which means he is in effect replacing Jesus.

"The Catholic Sacraments are essential for salvation."

But Grace is essential for salvation not traditions.

"The Catholic Church is the only correct interpreter of Scriptural doctrine."

They do not follow the Bible so they cannot be the only true church.

agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/22/15


Hebrews 12:8 > "But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." So, a child of God is experiencing our Father's correction which turns us into "partakers of His holiness" (Hebrews 12:10), in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness". So, we could poll people to see if they are our Father's children who seek Him for this correction.

Also > "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17) So, we might ask each one if he or she is experiencing the perfection of love's correction.

This could make it clear who is a Christian.
---com7fy8 on 1/22/15


\\But, I even had your priest in mind. \\

You don't even know his name. How can you know anything about him?
... better to be silent and thought ignorant than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
---Cluny on 1/21/15

Agree, you'd do better to be completely silent.
What do I know about him? He prays to icons, sells icons and promotes icons. He places himself as mediator between you and Christ by confession for forgiveness. Are you this priest we are discussing? He's taught you little.

Your worship of your Church, that you tout being above all others but, cannot scripturally defend by posted scripture reveal you, and him.

I never claimed to be a preacher. Would only point to scriptures you avoid.
---Trav on 1/22/15


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- 1 -
servant, why do you find fault with any of those beliefs?
---learner2 on 1/21/15


Only SOURCE of salvation is God the Father. Only He chooses, calls, elects, and sanctifies one to Himself, using Jesus to "save" them. Jn 6:44, 65

ALL spirit-filled Christians are commanded to forgive sins. Only God can forgive sins to repentance to salvation.

Water baptism is a sacrament that symbolizes dying to one's flesh life and surrendering to Jesus and living the Spirit life as the Bride of Jesus.

Only God's decision to choose, call, elect, and sanctify one to Himself is ESSENTIAL for salvation.
---aservant on 1/21/15


aservant:

Some protestants are true Christians. Some are not. Some Catholics are true Christians. Some are not. We will not really know for sure which is which until the final judgment, when the wheat is separated from the tares. Jesus taught that this is done on the threshing floor after the harvest, and not before.
---StrongAxe on 1/22/15


\\But, I even had your priest in mind. \\

You don't even know his name. How can you know anything about him?

As far as the abortion issue goes, I was named as a defendant in a $39 million lawsuit filed by the chop shops for merely praying across the street silently.

What have you suffered to keep unborn babies from being killed?

It is written, it's better to be silent and thought ignorant than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/21/15


Samuel, why do you think they are false doctrines?
---learner2 on 1/21/15


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In other words, Trav, you're just spouting off...
---Cluny on 1/21/15

Hey thanks, thats it.
Some might assume I'd list, olsteen, hinn, haggee, graham, etc, etc. But, I even had your priest in mind.
He hasn't affected you any. Some sheep being confused, i expect you to be confused about men being women and women being men, abortion etc.
Was trying not to hurt your feelings initially, being that you even had to ask the question...you surely won't understand the answer.

Jer_23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people, Ye have scattered my flock, driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
---Trav on 1/21/15


First Roman Catholics believe they are saved by Jesus Christ. That makes them Christians. Only GOD decides who is saved or lost and that is in the hands of Jesus.

Yes the RCC teaches most of the false doctrines you listed. But some are not official doctrines. I oppose all the doctrines you listed. Does that make me a Christian? NO. When a person says they believe in Jesus Christ that technically makes them a Christian. But it does not prove they are a real Christian.


John 14:23,24

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/21/15


servant, why do you find fault with any of those beliefs?
---learner2 on 1/21/15


In other words, Trav, you're just spouting off and can't support your accusations.

Typical.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/21/15


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...Can you give any names of such people, Trav?
---Cluny on 1/20/15

If you don't recognize, names will not remedy you, either.
It would be a shorter list to give the names of those who are servants... provided they could be found. I've found none. But surely there are a few. We don't see them on T.V., internet or the newspaper...do we.
I've found a few that are not afraid of scripture.

Any pastor that is not against evil is for.
Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Where are these shepherd leaders...they are not outside the Abortion clinics, or the Courthouses.
---Trav on 1/21/15


Spirit-filled Christians do NOT believe what Catholics are taught.


The Catholic Church teaches that it is the only source of salvation for sinners.

Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can forgive sins.

Catholics believe that water Baptism saves.

The Catholic Sacraments are essential for salvation.

The Catholic Church is the only correct interpreter of Scriptural doctrine.

Transubstantiation = God is formed into a biscuit at the priest's command.

The Eucharist keeps one from sin.

The Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer and saviour.
---aservant on 1/20/15


Catholics are Christians.
---learner2 on 1/20/15


\\Most so called self professed, Sheep Clothed Shepherds we have today....promote, encourage an allow the P.C. "mess" the world is in.\\

Can you give any names of such people, Trav?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/20/15


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I think the 83 percent who claim to be christian know there is a god but don't know God. Even Catholics believe they are christian. To know God is to be born Of the Spirit of God then you become one of His. That is what a Christian is.
---shira4368 on 1/20/15


If the United States is 83% christian then why is it in such a mess?
---Steveng on 1/18/15

Christ came to find sheep. Knowing he cannot fail, his Sheep would be referred to as "Christians".
Now Sheep, as Sheep will have Sheep attributes. Lots of bleating, eat around the clock, poop where they eat, run off a cliff as a panicked herd. Sheep are never noted for being attack or guard Sheep.
One does not breed Sheep to guard our houses, junk yards etc.
Most Sheep have never had or seen a Shepherd.
Most so called self professed, Sheep Clothed Shepherds we have today....promote, encourage an allow the P.C. "mess" the world is in.

Jer_23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter....
---Trav on 1/20/15


Who determines who is a "true Christian," Gordon?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/20/15


Who decides who the real Christians are?
---learner2 on 1/20/15


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I doubt that the United States of America is really 83% Christian.
More likely it would be 83% "professed" Christian.
If America was really 83% TRUE Christian, she would NOT be in the mess she's in.
Much of the Church is "Laodicean" and lukewarm.
She thinks she's rich and has many "blessings" which she thinks is of the LORD and therefore thinks she's in good standing with GOD.
When in reality, she is spiritually blind, poor and naked (Revelation 3:16-18).
Much of the modern Church is not a true Salt and Light.
She's not different from the world in the sense of being Holy, Righteous, forgiving and loving towards the lost world.
She's too busy being LIKE the world.
---Gordon on 1/20/15


ABCNEWS/Beliefnet poll 2005

Gallup says 77 percent in 2012.
---aka on 1/19/15


Too many talk-the-talkers, not enough walk-the-walkers.
---Press_On on 1/19/15


According to statics about 80% of the people in the United States believe in a higher power.

Only about 50% of the people attend Christian churches in a year.

Barna research can give you up to date information on this and other religious topics.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/19/15


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Who said the USA is 83% Christian Steveng?
---Leon on 1/18/15


The Church of Corinth was made up of true Christians by anyone's standards, but it was also a big box of pastoral problems.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/15


Because the USA is also human.
---learner2 on 1/18/15


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